1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,400 for so many reasons coming out of a breakup. 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:06,320 There's so much self-esteem that's lost 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,040 and so much of, yeah, your identity, your future planning, 4 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:10,880 all these things. 5 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,000 So I think a lot of people feel extremely lost 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,680 when they're going through a breakup. 7 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,880 And I think that's why people can get so stuck 8 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,720 is because they know they want help 9 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,200 and they don't know what to do. 10 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,400 And they don't feel like their pain is valid enough 11 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,360 to seek out support that they need. 12 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,200 And so I think that can keep people very stuck 13 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,400 for a long time. 14 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,000 (soft music) 15 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:54,160 - Hi there, Grave Growers. 16 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,840 I am so delighted to be here with you today, as always. 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,000 If you've been growing alongside me in my work for a while, 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:00,840 welcome back. 19 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,320 And if you've are new to me and my work, hello. 20 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:04,800 My name is Shelby Frasidhya. 21 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,000 I am a grief coach, three time author, 22 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,760 and the founder of Life After Loss Academy. 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,200 I have had the distinct honor of helping thousands 24 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,440 of grieving people stop feeling lost, stuck, broken, 25 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:17,000 and alone, and start building lives 26 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,880 that they genuinely love, from the lives lost, 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,480 forced them to live. 28 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,440 This includes not only death-related losses, 29 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,040 but also as we will talk about today, 30 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,760 losses like divorce and breakup, major diagnosis, 31 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,400 and every other major loss or transition 32 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,960 that changes your life. 33 00:01:31,960 --> 00:01:33,440 Here on the show, we believe that grief 34 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:34,920 is not something to get over. 35 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,200 It is something to grow with and alongside, 36 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,040 and that by treating grief less like a problem to be solved, 37 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:42,880 and more, like an invitation to live more deeply, 38 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,040 we can create meaningful lives that are rich 39 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,960 with the memories we carry, the struggles we faced, 40 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,280 and the precious awareness of what it means 41 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,160 to be right here and right now. 42 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,480 Today on "Greef Growers," I'm bringing you my conversation 43 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,920 with Kendra Allen, where we are talking about why 44 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,440 breakups are a grief event, why relationship loss, 45 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,680 even though the person is still alive can be so painful. 46 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,720 What healing looks like after a relationship ends, 47 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,240 and how we can all be better breakup besties 48 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,280 to the people in our lives who are grieving, 49 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:14,440 divorces, and breakups. 50 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:17,800 Here is more information about Kendra. 51 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,800 Kendra Allen is a breakup coach, host of the Heal Your Heart 52 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,400 Break podcast, author of the breakup workbook, 53 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,680 and founder of "Breakup Bestie." 54 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,840 After going through a series of painful breakups, 55 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,280 Kendra realized there was a huge gap online 56 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,000 for practical and healthy heartbreak advice, 57 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:34,880 and she set out to fill it. 58 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:36,920 She first launched the "Your Breakup Bestie" 59 00:02:36,920 --> 00:02:39,160 Instagram account in 2017. 60 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:42,200 Since then, she has helped hundreds of thousands of people 61 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,880 recover from heartbreak through her blog, social media, 62 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,560 coaching, and podcast. 63 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Kendra has been featured in "Cosmo Politan" 64 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,720 on air with Ryan Seacrest, ABC News, and more. 65 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:53,880 Let's get to it. 66 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:56,920 Kendra, I am so delighted to have you on "Greef Grower" 67 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,480 for the very first time ever to talk about 68 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:02,720 the subject of breakups and why they are such a big deal 69 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:06,080 and can be, are a grief event. 70 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,680 So tell everybody who may not have heard of you 71 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,000 or your work, like who you are, what you do, 72 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,760 and what your relationship to grief is 73 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,240 both through the lens of breakups, 74 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,160 but maybe even beyond. 75 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,960 - Yeah, thank you so much for having me. 76 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,200 You've been on, it's so funny to be on the opposite side. 77 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,040 - I know. 78 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,240 - Now I've had you on twice and it's an honor 79 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,200 'cause I really respect your work so much. 80 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,200 And so being here with you is, feels very honoring. 81 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,680 So I started an Instagram account, 82 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:41,960 and really started as a blog back, I guess it's been nine years 83 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,160 that I started this blog. 84 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:49,160 And I started it because, I mean, I started it 85 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:52,920 because I didn't feel like there was anything out there 86 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:54,280 related to breakups. 87 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,160 And a big part of my backstory was, 88 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,080 I got sober 13 and a half years ago. 89 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,560 When I said the words, I need help. 90 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,360 I think I'm an alcoholic, I need to, you know, 91 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,320 I need to get a handle on this. 92 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:12,160 There were just so many, thankfully, so many resources. 93 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:16,160 You know, I entered like a 90 day outpatient program. 94 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,040 I got to go to support meetings. 95 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:19,560 I had a therapy. 96 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,320 There were just so many things that were so black and white 97 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,520 of, okay, these are some steps that you can take 98 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,320 to get sober and stay sober. 99 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:32,440 And then when I went through my first, you know, 100 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,840 I'd say first real break up in sobriety, 101 00:04:35,840 --> 00:04:40,680 I remember being like, where are all these things? 102 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:44,160 I need, you know, I need, I need these really practical steps 103 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:46,760 like I had when I, you know, got sober. 104 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,320 And I didn't, there weren't those out there. 105 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:55,200 And so over the next year, I, I'd say I took the approach 106 00:04:55,200 --> 00:05:00,800 of sobriety recovery to breakups and really, you know, 107 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,680 dove into different therapies. 108 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,040 I would talk to different women about how they navigated 109 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,920 their divorce and just became kind of the sponge. 110 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:14,280 And through that became, I guess, the breakup bestie, 111 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:18,120 which I am now to my real life friends and then kind 112 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,320 of an ever widening circle of friends. 113 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:23,840 And I would, but I think what the beautiful thing is too, 114 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,000 is I started my podcast about six years ago. 115 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,720 And the amount I have learned about breakups is so, 116 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,760 I feel so lucky that I get, I've gotten all this information. 117 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,880 And there are so many things that I probably knew deep down 118 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:42,160 but couldn't put words to it. 119 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,880 Like the idea of breakup being a grief. 120 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,640 That was something where I knew I was getting a lot of feedback 121 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,880 on how validating I was with people's pain 122 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,080 because it seemed like there weren't a lot of people 123 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,760 validating their pain. 124 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,680 So for me to say, hey, it's, I know it's been a year 125 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,280 since your breakup, that's okay. 126 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:02,880 If you're still in pain about it and they were like, 127 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:05,040 really, it's still okay. 128 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,520 And so just either talking to people, talking to experts 129 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:11,080 like you, there were so many things where I've been 130 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,280 able to connect those dots and now share that 131 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:17,760 around the subject of breakups. 132 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,640 - Yes, I love it and I love that's like the perfect said way 133 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,680 to talking about a question I wrote down is, 134 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,520 how, what does it mean to be a breakup bestie? 135 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:28,800 Like what does it mean to be a good support 136 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,240 to someone who's going through a breakup? 137 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,720 And to your point, yeah, there's not any other than yours 138 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,640 that I know of, like societal, foundational, like, 139 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,160 if you're struggling, you do this. 140 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,600 If you know you have a problem, you go do this. 141 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:44,760 If you know that you need help with this, you go do that. 142 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,880 It's society has a very, like, and sometimes this is for better 143 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,640 and for worse, but like if A, then B, and a lot of grievers 144 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,720 who are grieving a death often appreciate, like, 145 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:57,440 oh, someone in my life just died, 146 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:58,680 there's a support group for that 147 00:06:58,680 --> 00:06:59,960 or there's a grief therapist for that 148 00:06:59,960 --> 00:07:00,880 or there's a this for that. 149 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,800 Some people are like, please don't tell me I need to go see 150 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,920 someone because it can be an offloading of like, 151 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,040 I just want you to listen to my grief story. 152 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,880 But to, I've never even put those pieces together before 153 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,600 that there's nothing societally for, you got your heart broken 154 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,160 or you maybe are the person breaking someone else's heart, 155 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,360 but there's still a grief event and a separation 156 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:23,240 and a relationship whether a marriage engagement 157 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,040 or heavy air quotes on, we were just dating 158 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,200 'cause like you can date somebody for so long 159 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,200 or you can, or the intensity of the relationship 160 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:31,360 could be very strong. 161 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:32,680 Yeah, absolutely. 162 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,680 So what does it mean to be a breakup bestie? 163 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,840 Well, it's so funny because I'd say so much of how to be 164 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:43,360 a breakup bestie is outlined in, of course I'm here right now. 165 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:44,200 Go ahead. 166 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:44,960 You know, it is. 167 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:50,640 Like, I mean, it's, I think a key thing is the validation. 168 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,400 I think that is honestly one of the biggest things 169 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,680 that comes from that because I think, 170 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,360 I mean, you know better than anyone. 171 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,160 When you see someone, when you're friends that's in pain, 172 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,520 you don't want them to be in pain. 173 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,360 And I remember going through breakups where people said, 174 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:15,840 okay, let's download Tinder and I'm like, 175 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,680 what, I can't even, you know, like let's get you 176 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,400 seeing the other options or let's go. 177 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,160 And I feel like I tried all of this, you know, 178 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,080 let's go to Vegas, like let's go to Vegas and like go have fun 179 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:34,120 and let's get you out of this slump, which I will say is very important. 180 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,080 One of the best pieces of advice that I got after my breakup was 181 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,240 I asked this woman, mind you, did not know her very well at all. 182 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,040 I just know that she was in a tenure relationship and it ended. 183 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,880 And from the outside, I thought she handled it very well. 184 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:50,680 So I called this woman that again, I'm not that close with. 185 00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:52,920 And I said, can I get coffee with you? 186 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,960 And we sat down and she said, you know, 187 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,880 it's finding the right mix of distraction and feeling, 188 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:05,200 which seems very, I guess, common sense, but to me, it wasn't. 189 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:10,360 And so finding out like, okay, when can we carve out this time for feeling? 190 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,280 Which, mind you in the beginning, there's a lot of feeling going on. 191 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,920 You don't really need to carve out time for it, but like, you know, bringing it back to, 192 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,800 okay, we also want to get out of the house even sometimes when we don't feel like it. 193 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,920 So kind of that guide of, okay, how are we feeling right now? 194 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,320 What you're feeling is completely valid. 195 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,800 And let's get you out of the house. 196 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:30,960 Like, let's go for a walk. 197 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,040 Let's, you know, let's take a couple steps. 198 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,760 Let's still take care of ourselves. 199 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,240 So it's like that. 200 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,920 It's like having the friend that has the outside perspective, 201 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:45,360 but also is going to validate you and not try to fix the situation for you. 202 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,760 Yeah, or rush you to happiness too soon. 203 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,320 I love that you said this this way, because I can hear some grief 204 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:52,760 goers bristling in the back of my head. 205 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,040 If you just need to get out of the house, 206 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:58,080 because nope, not a lot of gravers appreciate hearing that regardless of what they're grieving. 207 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,440 Yeah, but it reminds me earlier this year we had on Alex Mamadiar, 208 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,120 off who wrote a book called "Grow Through Grief," which is very funny, 209 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,080 because the title of this podcast is "Greef Grower," 210 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,680 and we didn't know that we like titled our things almost the same. 211 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:11,120 We named our children almost the same. 212 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:17,320 Basically, but she has a framework in her book where she talks about live grief, repeat. 213 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:19,600 You spend some time living, you spend some time grieving, 214 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:21,480 and you just keep doing that over and over again. 215 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,120 And the folding in, the integration of, "I'm constantly living, I'm constantly grieving, 216 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,160 I'm balancing my time between the two things." 217 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,200 She's like, "That's how you become resilient, that's how you heal." 218 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,880 And that's what she was getting at in her book too, the part I bristled at, 219 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:39,440 because she had instructions for sometimes you really do need to get out of the house. 220 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:40,920 And I was like, "Hey, wait a minute." 221 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,240 And she was like, "No, no, it all has a purpose. 222 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:48,720 It all has an intention because there is time that's very important to feel, 223 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,840 and it's very important to process all the emotions surrounding your grief, 224 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,480 prevent your breakup, your divorce, absolutely." 225 00:10:55,480 --> 00:11:00,160 And it's also important to sort of have one foot continuously engaged with the world 226 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,000 to your point, even in seasons where you may not want to. 227 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:07,960 And so it sounds like the role of a breakup, bestie, is to yes validate your feelings. 228 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:11,440 Yes, of course you, in the framework of the person here right now, to say, 229 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,480 "It makes sense. I can see how you got there. 230 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,360 Your feelings are logical to me. 231 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,520 Sounds like really normal, and also, how would you like to stay engaged in the world? 232 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,600 Or how can I help you continue to be a part of the world?" 233 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,240 Is it supposed to further isolating or shutting down to it? 234 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:27,560 Did I hope I said that right? 235 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:29,960 Yes, no, that's 100% exactly. 236 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:39,480 And I think it's, I would say, if ideally, if I could pick my role that I have on people, 237 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:46,520 my goal ultimately, I think, is to get people to be able to listen to themselves on what, 238 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:49,760 you know, what do I feel like I need to do right now? 239 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:56,440 I think for so many reasons coming out of a breakup takes away this part of our identity, 240 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:03,640 and coming from my past breakup experience, there's so much self-esteem that's lost 241 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,080 and so much of, yeah, your identity, your future planning, all of these things. 242 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,120 So I think a lot of people feel extremely lost when they're going through a breakup. 243 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:20,080 So how can we listen to ourselves at a huge time of need, which feels like that would be 244 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:26,040 the time that you would be able to really help yourself, but that it's so hard. 245 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:32,160 And I think that's why people can get so stuck is because they know they want help and 246 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:33,640 they don't know what to do. 247 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:39,920 And they don't feel like their pain is valid enough to seek out support that they need. 248 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,840 And so I think that can keep people very stuck for a long time. 249 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:45,920 Yeah, that resonates a lot with me. 250 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,480 I'm like, the sounds like grief. 251 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:48,480 Sounds like grief. 252 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:49,480 Yes. 253 00:12:49,480 --> 00:12:50,480 There's so many parallels. 254 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:51,480 Yes. 255 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:53,880 I wrote down, I love what you named here because one of the other questions I had for you 256 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:58,920 is why our breakup so painful, like what makes them a grief event and you just named, 257 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:03,640 lots of identity, loss of a shared future, and then just this sense of feeling lost. 258 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:07,760 I have gone off track from what I thought my life was going to be or supposed to be. 259 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:13,120 So I wonder if you can name even more things that maybe people expect to lose in the wake 260 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,120 of a breakup. 261 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:17,240 Like I know I'm going to grieve this about my relationship and then maybe some things 262 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:22,320 that come as a surprise because I'll tell you, I, I, some grief growers will know back 263 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:27,320 in 2017 I went through the break up of an engagement and some things I knew I was going 264 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:30,720 to grieve and then other things just like snuck up on me and caught me out of nowhere and 265 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,040 I was like, wow, I never thought I'd be grieving that. 266 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,280 And it really threw me for a loop. 267 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,520 I'll say that. 268 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:37,520 Yeah. 269 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:43,760 I mean, one thing that's been coming up a lot lately on my show is how the surprising amount 270 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:48,840 of shame that is that comes with a breakup and I will tell you that does not necessarily 271 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,520 matter on how the breakup happened or who quote unquote fault was it. 272 00:13:54,520 --> 00:14:01,840 But you know, I talk to so many people where and you know, we can say we not to personalize 273 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:07,760 it until we're blue in the face, but there's something so personal about someone saying, 274 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:15,680 I don't want to be with you or I, I can't be the person you want me to be. 275 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,960 Therefore I don't think we're a good fit. 276 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:24,080 And I think that is, I, so I think shame is something that a lot of people aren't necessarily 277 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:25,080 expecting. 278 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:30,520 I think especially for people where maybe their ex partner, there was like an active infidelity. 279 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,380 And if anything, you would think the person that cheated would be the one to carry the 280 00:14:34,380 --> 00:14:37,840 shame, but no, it also rests with the other person too. 281 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,120 So I think shame is a big one. 282 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,880 Making it mean something about your worthiness. 283 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,760 If only I was this, if only I was a better partner. 284 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,080 I mean, I've had all the thoughts. 285 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:56,560 If only I was taller and skinnier, if only I was smarter in this way or all these things. 286 00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,840 So I think it's very hard to not make it mean something about your worth. 287 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:06,800 I think the other thing is, I think what a lot of people don't expect and I'm going to, 288 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:13,160 I'm forgetting the author's name, but I had this mother daughter duo on my show where 289 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:18,240 they did the mom went through the divorce and her and her daughter ended up writing this 290 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,360 illustrative book about it. 291 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,920 And she talked about the concept of the aftershocks. 292 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,560 And I think that aftershocks are something that those last a long time. 293 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:32,960 And that can be something as little as you're feeling good and then you hear a song come 294 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:34,440 on the radio. 295 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,880 There's just so many things that you don't expect to be tied to your relationship. 296 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:44,000 I still have them from relationships like 14 years ago, where I hear a certain song 297 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:49,720 or a certain name and you think, am I really still upset about this? 298 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,880 And it's like, yes, of course, because that's something that hasn't been felt yet. 299 00:15:53,880 --> 00:16:00,040 So I think those aftershocks and how long they last can really surprise people. 300 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:04,560 That's really well said and it reminds me very much of supporting grievers through all types 301 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,560 of losses. 302 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,480 I joke that and very seriously work with the 3D's death divorce diagnosis, the three huge 303 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,840 things that can change your life. 304 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Plus more, plus breakups, plus pet loss, plus job loss, plus miscareds, like anything else 305 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,080 you want to lump in there is something that I can address on at least some level. 306 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:26,040 And what you're speaking of is often referred to in like grief world as grief bombs or grief 307 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:32,600 activators, like seeing pink socks at the grocery store and remembering her pink sock collection 308 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,240 that shared the drawer with yours. 309 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:40,800 Or one of the big griefs that I find a lot of grieving spouses or grieving divorcees 310 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,240 name is I'm grieving the person who did X. I'm grieving the person who did them on. 311 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,640 I'm grieving the person who did the child care administration. 312 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,520 I'm grieving the person who had this specific role in the family. 313 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,300 I'm grieving the person who filed our taxes, like I'm grieving the person who made the 314 00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:55,300 doctors appointments. 315 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,480 And it's not all administrative, but it's like I'm grieving the person who picked up the 316 00:16:58,480 --> 00:16:59,480 movie. 317 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,160 I'm grieving the household chef. 318 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:05,760 I'm grieving the person who got the decorations up and down for the holidays. 319 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:11,200 I'm grieving the person who made fun in the relationship or within the family unit. 320 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,960 And then even just this morning in life after a loss academy, a grieving person wrote, she 321 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,560 said, I'm grieving the fact that I had an emergency contact. 322 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:23,400 Like at a doctor's appointment, you have to list like who's your emergency contact or 323 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,520 like when you when you enter a new job and go through HR, they're like, if you pass 324 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,320 out at work, like who should we call and she's like, I don't know who to list anymore. 325 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:35,880 And so there's this sense of like you lose, you lose them all at once when the breakup 326 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,880 happens. 327 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,680 And then you keep losing them in little pieces as time goes on. 328 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:44,000 It's just as true for death grief as it is for for breakup grief. 329 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,000 That's so well put. 330 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,720 Yes, you lose them all at once and you lose them, you know, all all over again. 331 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,720 And yes, there's so many. 332 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:56,600 And I think like even if we love a person and we appreciate them, there's so many ways 333 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,240 that we end up taking things in our relationship for granted. 334 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:05,560 And I always share the example of, okay, you're driving home from work on Friday. 335 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,560 You always called your partner to say, you know, what are we doing this weekend? 336 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:11,560 Work was this. 337 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:16,640 It's like we just have all these little micro habits and routines that we don't even 338 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:18,480 realize we have with someone. 339 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:24,440 And I think that's a very under addressed part of breakup recovery is, I think you really 340 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:29,600 need to identify where are these voids that I feel. 341 00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:37,680 And I think what we sometimes expect is we expect to, you know, do maybe the stereotypical 342 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,320 things of going to therapy and, you know, trying to plug this big hole and we're not taking 343 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,360 into account all of these little voids that we have. 344 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:48,240 And then we're like, why don't I feel better? 345 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:55,400 And I think having addressing all those little micro things that we did with an X or that 346 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,840 were a part of us, and I will also add on to what you said too, it's, I miss this person. 347 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:06,000 I also miss the person I was when I was with this person. 348 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,000 Yeah. 349 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,880 You know, I, I share the example of, you know, I was in a relationship with someone and we 350 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:18,080 would always on weekends go at Twelay, find a cool new restaurant, go to a comedy, 351 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:23,200 show, or we would, you know, drive and go on these cool hikes. 352 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,920 And after the breakup, it was, I miss that. 353 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:34,600 I, I, I feel like I lost that and I had to get to a place of, wait, I can still do that. 354 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,560 And so I had this restorative experience of getting a group of girls together, going up 355 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,880 to a lay, trying a new restaurant, going to an improv show. 356 00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:49,640 And so I think those are also things of this person brought this out in me and I'm afraid 357 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,200 I've also lost that. 358 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:52,200 Yes. 359 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,600 I, I think that's a helpful thing to point out because we do in grief, absolutely talk 360 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,720 about you don't just grieve the loss you grieve the person that you used to be or the 361 00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,320 person that this loss took away from you. 362 00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,160 But to your point, there are versions of yourself that lost takes away, but there are traits 363 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,520 about you that can remain. 364 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:13,080 And so you're like, sure, I'm adventurous. 365 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:17,320 Did I lose my adventurous self like all the way or are there other ways to be adventurous? 366 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:22,520 And so in the process of coping with a breakup or coping with any other kind of loss, it's 367 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:28,440 like, I may have lost the way I was adventurous with insert their name here, but I haven't lost 368 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,400 the ability to be adventurous. 369 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,360 And those are two very different stories you could be telling yourself. 370 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:38,360 And that's really significant when it comes to sort of serving the landscape of like, 371 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:42,320 how much was destroyed like taking an inventory of like, how much did I really lose? 372 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,560 Because that can be a huge source of stress, especially after a breakup of feeling like 373 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:47,320 you've lost an entire self. 374 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:52,440 And it's like, yeah, you may have lost like 80% of yourself, but maybe there's 20% of 375 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,760 you that still is capable of doing those things or wants to do those things just in a way 376 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,440 that has been shifted by the loss. 377 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,440 Yes. 378 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:02,440 And I want to make clear too. 379 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,600 I don't, this is something that, you know, I think with any kind of loss there becomes 380 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:13,720 this tunnel vision of the only thing that you can see is what has been lost, you know, 381 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,240 you can't see that 20%. 382 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,240 And you may not see that 20% for a period of time. 383 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,720 So it's not something where it's, okay, I need to get myself back right away. 384 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:29,280 It's small things of, okay, this opportunity is arising where I can go for a hike where 385 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,560 that's something that me and my ex partner did. 386 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:33,960 And so now we can do that. 387 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:39,040 Or, you know, a lot of the ones are, okay, the restaurant we went on our first data or 388 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:45,240 the, you know, all those little significant places that feel like they've been lost. 389 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,600 Those are all things, I mean, there are a lot of things that can be, I guess, I like to 390 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:49,600 call reclaimed. 391 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,040 Yeah, reclaimed, restored, recaptured, revisited. 392 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,040 Yes. 393 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,840 At the very least, like, maybe you go, you look at the door and then you go around and 394 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,200 turn back. 395 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:05,240 But to visit it again to consider it as a part of maybe it's not all lost or maybe this branch 396 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:07,120 of the panda express is not lost. 397 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,640 Maybe there's another one or something similar. 398 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:11,920 I turn that into a joke. 399 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:19,960 But yeah, yeah, rewriting the story and we do this a lot and my Factor Lost Academy is 400 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,080 always lost or everything is gone. 401 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:24,240 And it's just extremist language. 402 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,000 And it can be really life changing. 403 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,960 If that's the story you're telling yourself of all is lost, everything is gone. 404 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:34,120 I have nothing left versus most is lost. 405 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,680 Much of everything is gone and I only have a few things left. 406 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,360 Like that's, that's not nothing. 407 00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:40,840 And that makes a big difference. 408 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Yeah, when you're grieving. 409 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,040 I love that. 410 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,760 And I want to touch on something that you and I talked about before we hopped on the 411 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:53,640 mic, which is, and this is based on an article I wrote for medium back in 2017 after 412 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,520 that fateful breakup of an engagement that I had and it was called the crucial difference 413 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,400 between a death and a breakup. 414 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:05,120 And I got so much feedback on it, some positive I totally hear you and some like how dare 415 00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:08,800 you compare a death event and a breakup. 416 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:15,560 And I basically argued that a death event is one kind of grief because the person is gone 417 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,960 they can no longer come back. 418 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:21,120 There's so much finality in all of that. 419 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:23,720 And there's a huge amount of grieving to do there. 420 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,800 But then in a breakup, such as the breakup of relationship and engagement divorce, whatever 421 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,720 the case may be, however legally tied you were to each other, there's the grief for the 422 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:34,240 ending of the relationship. 423 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:40,240 And a lot of people, especially people who are early in deep grief, will say things like 424 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,160 we'll be grateful there's still a lot of. 425 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,120 And I'm like, no, there's, right, don't say that. 426 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:51,240 And also there's a separate kind of grief of being forced in some way, especially if you're 427 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,960 in this person's orbit as a co-parent or someone in your neighborhood or your friend's circle 428 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,080 or your workplace, there's a separate kind of grief and that they didn't die. 429 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,560 But you have to watch them live out a parallel life without you that you were supposed to live 430 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,120 together, that you were dreaming together. 431 00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:09,960 So it's not just grieving a future that can no longer be. 432 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,240 It's grieving a future that can no longer be and watching a different future unfold. 433 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,200 And there's a very, I don't have a name for it, I wish there was a shorter name than saying 434 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,400 all of that. 435 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:25,520 But it's a very specific type of grieving that can almost only ever come from relationship 436 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:26,520 breakup. 437 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,160 So I would love if you could speak more on that from stories you've heard in your community 438 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,720 or maybe your own personal experience of like, yeah, that is grief worthy too. 439 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:39,080 Yes, I think it is, you know, it's the thing that is coming to mind. 440 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,800 I don't, did you ever see the movie PSI Love You with Gerard Butler? 441 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:43,800 Yes, I did. 442 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:44,800 Okay. 443 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,040 Yes, one of my favorite movies when I want to just sob. 444 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:55,660 But there is a scene with Hillary Swank and she's talking to her mom, Kathy Bates, and 445 00:24:55,660 --> 00:25:05,040 Kathy Bates' husband left her and then Hillary Swank's husband in the movie passes away. 446 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:11,840 And there is a scene where they're in kind of a fight and, you know, Hillary Swank said 447 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,960 at least, you know, at least your husband is still alive. 448 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,360 Like he's still here. 449 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,000 My husband is gone. 450 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,920 And Kathy Bates said, yeah, it's so much better for someone to leave you by choice. 451 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,440 And yeah, and it's a very, I mean, of course, it's a very intense scene, but I think that 452 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:37,880 really shows, you know, two people facing grief in different ways. 453 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:42,000 But yes, I think there is a lot of elements to this. 454 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:48,280 I mean, social media comes to mind, of course, of not only, you know, are you, is this person 455 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,560 still living their life? 456 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:57,560 But we have, sometimes we have a window to see that through their social media. 457 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,160 Of course, you know, when you're in a relationship, so many things become entwined. 458 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,400 So there's a good chance you still have mutual friends. 459 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,840 I don't know why I'm surprised, but I remember being surprised at how many people work with 460 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,400 their ex-partners. 461 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,760 So you may have to, you know, see them in the workplace. 462 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,200 You may share children with them. 463 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,080 So you have like a very close connection to them still. 464 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:25,400 So there is this hard thing of, and it makes it, I think, harder to depersonalize it because 465 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:29,600 especially if you see your ex-partner with someone else and it looks like they're giving them 466 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:35,920 everything they didn't give you, that can make it feel so much more of a personal attack 467 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,160 on yourself worth. 468 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:45,120 I feel like it also does, it can make it harder to let them go because if they, you know, 469 00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:50,680 when they are alive, so many people have the hope of they're going to change their mind. 470 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,160 We will get back together. 471 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:57,080 And whether that's passive of just having in the back of your mind or active where people 472 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:04,080 are actively waiting or trying or doing all of these things to actively try to get that 473 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:05,880 person to come back to them. 474 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:11,360 So I think that's another element that I think can delay the healing. 475 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:18,080 I mean, I tell everyone that it's so normal to have hope that someone will come back. 476 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:23,480 I think it would be crazy to suggest that someone wouldn't have that hope, but I tell people 477 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,520 it's really based on what are you doing with that hope? 478 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:32,480 Are you, you know, are you not doing anything for yourself because you're like, I don't want 479 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,560 to move on because what if I move on and then they want me back and then that causes me 480 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,360 not to be able to get back together with them. 481 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,440 So I think the hope part is also hard. 482 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,440 Yeah. 483 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,440 And oh, I didn't, yeah. 484 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,880 I don't think I'd be saying that on my birthday. 485 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,360 I didn't even think of that. 486 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:53,160 Like because I'm at least one time on this whole episode, but at least in a death event, 487 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,480 there is no hope of them coming back. 488 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,120 There's no hope of them changing their mind about dying. 489 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:06,920 And that is so possible in so many instances of a breakup, even inclusive of things that 490 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:12,720 I think society deems extreme, like situations of infidelity or cheating or financial abuse 491 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:17,760 or physical emotional abuse, like even sometimes in there, there's like, maybe they'll change, 492 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:21,040 maybe they'll go to recovery, maybe they'll get a therapist, maybe they'll want me back. 493 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,880 Like there's so many, or maybe I'll want them back. 494 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,920 There's so many opportunities for the story to still be written a different way because 495 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,720 they are still alive. 496 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:37,240 And that can contribute to the grief of mourning the relationship that was or maybe the relationship 497 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:38,720 that could never be. 498 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:39,720 Yeah, absolutely. 499 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:40,720 Love it. 500 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:41,720 You brought that up. 501 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:45,080 I love when my brain gets to see a new lens of a situation. 502 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,800 I want to piggyback on something you just said of like that delays healing or how do you 503 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:49,800 know? 504 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:50,800 Like when you've moved on. 505 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:55,960 That's a question for you because in grief world, we believe at least here in grief where 506 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,720 that closure isn't real. 507 00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,720 Closure's a myth. 508 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:06,760 And people would go to therapy like, I want closure and you're like, well, so in your teaching 509 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:11,960 in heal your heartbreak and break up bestie in your courses and kind of the world that you've 510 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:17,000 created of support for people who are going through breakup, do you have like a criteria 511 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,600 of here is how you know you are healing from a breakup or here's how you know you're having 512 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,360 more good days than bad, for instance, or here's how you know you're ready to date again. 513 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:33,200 Like how do you know that the all of the work you were doing on your broken heart after 514 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,200 a breakup, whether you instigated or they instigated or something else happened? 515 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,040 Like how do you know that you're doing okay? 516 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,840 Because I imagine that criteria is a bit similar to death related losses, but also a bit 517 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:44,840 different. 518 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:50,840 Yeah, I mean, the first thing I will say is I also believe that closure is a myth. 519 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:56,280 I mean, even if again, that person is alive and you could sit them down and say, tell me 520 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:59,800 exactly why this relationship did not work. 521 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,880 Tell me exactly why it would not provide the relief that you think it would and I don't 522 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,560 think you and in some ways it would cause it in a lot of times it could cause more pain 523 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:16,720 and a lot of times people could be very honest with you and still not know exactly, you know, 524 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,840 they still can't voice exactly why it happened. 525 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,720 So I think again, I think closure is a myth in that way. 526 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,680 I think it's hard. 527 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,240 This is going to be so different for people, but the big message that I always try to say 528 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:36,240 is the finish line, quote unquote, finish line of a breakup is also a myth. 529 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:40,800 You know, I don't necessarily think there's this big thing where you wake up one day and 530 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,760 you're like, I'm over it. 531 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:43,760 It's great. 532 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:44,760 I did great. 533 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,560 And some people will say that dating someone new could be the finish line. 534 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,160 I don't necessarily believe that either. 535 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,120 But a lot of it's going to happen in hindsight. 536 00:30:54,120 --> 00:31:03,200 I always encourage people to take some time to reflect on how far you've come from things 537 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,840 and the obsession is a big one. 538 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:11,680 The obsession to check their social media, the obsession to know exactly what they're 539 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,040 up to. 540 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:18,800 I think being kinder to yourself is a big one as we're talking about shame as such a big 541 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:20,840 part of breakups. 542 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:26,200 Once you can get to a point of saying, I did everything that I could and I still feel 543 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,240 very sad that this happened. 544 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:33,280 But I also know that this was probably the right thing that happened. 545 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:42,080 So I think that is, you know, having some self-compassion, sneak in, you can have a grief 546 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:48,640 bomb or an aftershock and you might think about it and it might rattle you a little bit, 547 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,240 but you notice, okay, wow, I heard that song. 548 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,840 It's making me feel sad, but then it's passing. 549 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:02,520 I think the obsession part is a big one of having those thoughts instead of becoming obsessive, 550 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:09,320 they're passing where you think, okay, I felt that and now I'm moving on. 551 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,960 I love that. 552 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:15,040 I think that's really succinct. 553 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:21,160 I mean, I literally just wrote down obsession down, kindness up, self-compassion up and then 554 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:29,000 doing some rewriting or retelling of the story of what happened and it's reframing how the 555 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,560 break up happened, the context with which the break up happened. 556 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:35,520 A lot of that, sadly, unfortunately, sort of like grief also can only come with time and 557 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:36,800 continued living. 558 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:41,520 Like your perspective only grows as you get older as you continue to live more life. 559 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,400 Like I could have tried to tell you what I thought my mother's death meant six months away 560 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:47,400 from her death. 561 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,440 I have a totally different and much more nuanced answer for you now. 562 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,840 I think the same is true with break up events. 563 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:57,400 I could have done that for you at the end of my engagement, the unexpected end of my engagement. 564 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:01,040 I had a story then and I have a different story now. 565 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,600 The story is a huge part. 566 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,760 Fold in the humanity of everybody involved and then to increase the compassion that way and 567 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,840 then the last thing I wrote down was coping with grief bombs or aftershocks as you've named 568 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:18,760 them and just getting better and more practiced at doing that seems to be a good criteria of 569 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,840 like, yeah, you're doing okay. 570 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,840 And I love that you do not have this set expectation of like, well, you move on, you date somebody 571 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,320 else, you never think about that person again. 572 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:34,960 Because I think it is human nature to attach to people in places and objects and to detach 573 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,200 from those things and then to still be connected to them in some way, whether through memory or 574 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,200 there's a beautiful, I don't know if it's a tweet or a thread or some sort of written 575 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,120 post or Tumblr maybe that went around the internet years and years ago. 576 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:53,240 But it was like, it is bold of us as people to assume that even the people who have left 577 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,960 us have no impact. 578 00:33:54,960 --> 00:34:00,120 Like, I still make sushi the way my best friend taught me or I still wear my hair the way 579 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:04,800 my coworker taught me or I still listen to that album because it was my ex-boyfriend's 580 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:05,800 favorite. 581 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,480 Like, there are little bits and pieces that still come along for the ride. 582 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,880 Sometimes whether we liked it or not, but sometimes very intentionally and not just 583 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,240 coping with the awful things, the grief bombs that happened, but sometimes intentionally 584 00:34:16,240 --> 00:34:21,140 bringing part, like bringing forward, were there bits of that relationship that I actually 585 00:34:21,140 --> 00:34:25,640 loved, were there pieces of myself that brought out that I want to cultivate, were there hobbies 586 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,640 that we did together that I don't want to stop doing? 587 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:32,480 Like, there's other, the flip side of grieving a breakup can also be asking, like, well, what 588 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,720 remains that's still valuable that I would like to carry forward? 589 00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:38,600 Because I don't have to leave, back to the extremism, I don't have to leave everything 590 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:39,600 back there. 591 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:40,600 I cast. 592 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,760 But I don't have to. 593 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,680 And that can be some kind of healing as well. 594 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:50,680 I think it's so easy to just associate a breakup with being bad. 595 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:52,960 The breakup is bad. 596 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,520 People are supposed to stay together. 597 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,160 So a breakup is inherently bad. 598 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:02,920 And I think a lot of people, whether consciously or unconsciously, live by that. 599 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:09,480 And so what I see and what I did is you have this pendulum swing of, okay, I was with this 600 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:10,480 person. 601 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,480 It ended. 602 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:12,480 That's bad. 603 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:17,560 So all the way over here to this other side, and I'm going to hope that that works because 604 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,560 that didn't work. 605 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:23,360 When really it's in the middle, there were everyone, you don't, you are not in relationship 606 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:32,600 with people who you don't have something good with, you know, and, and so to think that 607 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,760 nothing would stick with you, you know, that's not, that's just not reality. 608 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,400 And so being able to, I mean, I think another thing that I tell people is, you're 609 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,640 actually not being up on a pedestal. 610 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:45,920 They were not perfect. 611 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,360 Your relationship was not perfect. 612 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:54,400 But on the flip side, you know, there's very few instances where you should think my ex is 613 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,080 the scum of the earth. 614 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,480 And there was no redeemable qualities about them. 615 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:02,480 If you can get to a place of neutrality, wow, this relationship had some really beautiful 616 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,480 things. 617 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,440 My ex had these really great qualities. 618 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,640 But then here are some qualities that didn't drive with me. 619 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,600 And, you know, at the end of the day, we worked, we just weren't compatible. 620 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,600 That's a great place to be. 621 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:16,840 Neutrality and difference. 622 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:22,960 These things that, I don't know, they're not, they're not like sexy emotions because they're 623 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,320 not necessarily intense. 624 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:34,080 But those are the ones that, to me, would show someone is making a lot of progress in moving 625 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,080 past their ex. 626 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,080 Yeah. 627 00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:38,080 I love that. 628 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,920 And as we're wrapping up here, I would love to know from you kind of, we can fold in my book 629 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:42,920 if you want. 630 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,320 But if someone listening is going through a breakup and they're like the people around 631 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,040 me are just not understanding like the weight of this for me and how much it has changed 632 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:58,360 my life, what is something that they might be able to say to friends and family to help 633 00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,360 them get it? 634 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,560 I know that's not always within our control. 635 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,400 And or what can friends or family members say to people who've experienced a breakup? 636 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,440 It's less assholy than you need to move on, you need to find closure, you need to get over 637 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,640 it or any of the other garbage things that people say to creepers. 638 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:17,320 So two part question, what can we say to make people help people understand? 639 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,120 Like, this is significant. 640 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,960 And then what can people offer to their friends and family who are going through a breakup 641 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,240 that actually helps them feel seen and heard and understood? 642 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:30,960 Well, I mean, of course I'm here right now is such a great framework for that. 643 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:39,040 I will say, and I don't want to blame people who are going through a breakup, but the thing 644 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:47,840 that I sometimes see that brings less support is people get really locked into the story of 645 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,280 my ex did this to me. 646 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:56,840 They're doing this, you know, can you believe that they posted this picture with a new partner? 647 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:02,960 So we get so wrapped up in what the ex is doing, what the ex did to us. 648 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:07,600 And I think that's harder for people to validate. 649 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:16,360 So I would say stick to the feelings that we're having as much as you can, you know, I'm 650 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,400 feeling betrayed. 651 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,720 I'm feeling small. 652 00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:26,800 I'm feeling forgotten because someone may not have gone through the break. 653 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,280 I think I'm going to make up that you have gone through. 654 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,720 And especially as we get older, you know, when people have been in long term relationships 655 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:36,360 for a long time, I think it is easy to feel disconnected from what it's like to go through 656 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,040 a breakup, but everyone knows what it's like to feel betrayed. 657 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,720 Everyone knows what it feels like to feel forgotten or small. 658 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:52,040 So as much as you can stick to the feelings, I think you'll get a lot more validation and 659 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,360 support instead of just going into my ex did this. 660 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,800 And then they did this and then they did this and then they did this. 661 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:05,000 People can feel tired of that quicker in my opinion, not saying that's the right thing, 662 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,120 but I do notice that. 663 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:08,120 That's beautiful. 664 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,320 And it's also an exercise for people who are craving a breakup to be like, can you name 665 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:12,320 your emotions? 666 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:13,320 Yes. 667 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,440 That's what that can be a crucial first step in not just getting other people to have sympathy 668 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,320 and empathy for you, but for you to have compassion for yourself. 669 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,000 It's not just their piece of shit and they did this and they cheat on me whatever, which 670 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:31,800 is enough of a story, but to say, I'm feeling betrayed or I'm feeling abandoned or I'm feeling 671 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:37,080 confused or I'm feeling sad or I'm feeling disappointed, like pointing to exactly what is 672 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,080 the emotion that you're experiencing. 673 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:43,920 And the gift of that is having that be more universal is that other people who may not 674 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,600 understand the grief of a breakup will understand what it means to be disappointed by another 675 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:53,920 person or to feel betrayed or to be abandoned or left alone here or whatever the emotion 676 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:54,920 is. 677 00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:55,920 Wow, that's such a great tip. 678 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,920 No one's ever said that before. 679 00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:57,920 I love it. 680 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:58,920 Okay. 681 00:39:58,920 --> 00:39:59,920 Part two. 682 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:01,960 People who are supporting people through a breakup. 683 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,400 What the heck should you say besides trying to truly them out of it or tell them they need 684 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:07,400 to be over it already? 685 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:08,400 Yeah. 686 00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:15,240 I mean, I think the, again, going back to feelings, I think the first thing to say or to ask 687 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:17,600 is how are you feeling about it? 688 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:19,760 I will never forget at least my personal story. 689 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,200 I saw someone that I hadn't seen in a really long time and I said, "Oh, how's everything 690 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,200 going? 691 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:26,200 What's new?" 692 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:27,200 And she said, "Oh, I went through a divorce. 693 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,200 This was a pre-breakup, Betsy." 694 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:29,200 And I said, "Oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry." 695 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:30,800 And she said, "Don't be sorry. 696 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:31,800 Don't be sorry. 697 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:32,800 That was the best thing that has happened to me. 698 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:33,800 It was a good thing." 699 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:34,800 Oh, sure. 700 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,640 So I would say, like, don't assume how someone is feeling about it. 701 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,840 So I think let them lead in some ways. 702 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,720 And again, I mean, it's so similar. 703 00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:52,640 Just listening to them, I'm here. 704 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,720 And I try to meet them where they're at. 705 00:40:55,720 --> 00:41:02,040 I think as with any grieving event, the isolation can be so intense. 706 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:08,440 And so meeting someone where they're at, do you want to go, like, can we go for a walk? 707 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:13,960 Can I just come over and we can just sit on the couch and scroll our phones together? 708 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:14,960 Meeting people where they're at. 709 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:23,560 I think letting them lead the way is a big one and not letting them be fully alone. 710 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:27,600 Because I know there are people who they want to isolate. 711 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,320 And that can be sending a text, "Hey, I was just thinking about you. 712 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:32,320 No need to reply." 713 00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,800 But just like, I love you. 714 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:36,120 And this. 715 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,120 So. 716 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:43,480 And also, I think something that people do is they automatically go into trashing the X, 717 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:50,280 which is probably something that doesn't happen with a death grief of most of the time. 718 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:51,280 Most of the time, no. 719 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,080 Honestly, just hopefully not. 720 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:54,360 I'm sure there are some. 721 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:59,640 But I think it's so easy to say, "Oh, I didn't like them. 722 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,880 They were such a piece of crap, whatever." 723 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:05,880 That's not, I would not do that either. 724 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,560 I've made that mistake before. 725 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:09,800 And let me tell you, a lot of time they get back together. 726 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:14,200 And then you're in this really weird spot where they know what you think of their partners. 727 00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:16,920 I remember someone, one of my friends, my last breakup. 728 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,680 She said, "Let's make a list of everything you didn't like about him." 729 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:26,160 And it made me feel so much worse because I was like, "I can't think of a single thing right 730 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:27,160 now. 731 00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,200 All I'm locked in on is how much I miss them. 732 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:34,520 And so the fact that I can't think of a single thing makes me feel like I'm so much 733 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,560 further than I thought of being able to get over this." 734 00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:38,560 Yeah. 735 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:39,560 Wow. 736 00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:40,840 That, this is why I had you on. 737 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,960 I'm like, all of these are so helpful. 738 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,880 The last one I'll add in this comes from a more of a grief perspective. 739 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,520 Is like, if you know there are events coming up, whether they're holidays or things they 740 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,400 had planned together, that you can put on your calendar of like, they were supposed to 741 00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,000 go to a rubah together in December or something or like, they always spend the holidays. 742 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,640 His mom's house, like the ex's mom's house or something like that, like, just make a little 743 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,720 note of like, those are really good times to check in and just be like, to the script 744 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:07,720 of, "I'm here. 745 00:43:07,720 --> 00:43:10,920 I haven't forgotten that you've gone through this breakup. 746 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,480 Either my house is open to you or I'll just keep checking in on you if you're not able to 747 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,360 like physically be together. 748 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:21,600 But I think a lot of, a lot of things that I've personally dreaded and I've heard from 749 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,560 clients that they dread after a breakup is like, they're just now looking at this empty 750 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,800 calendar of like, all the things that we're going to do and when in the future stretch, 751 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,680 we're supposed to go to this, our friends wedding together and we're supposed to do this 752 00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,680 together. 753 00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:40,680 And to have all of that sort of collapse in on itself and then for friends and family 754 00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:46,240 to fall away after like a week or two, maybe a month if you're lucky, it was just been really 755 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:50,760 disappointing and really hard to contend with all by yourself. 756 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,920 And so if you're a friend or family member, or you're like, "Oh yeah, they did get tickets 757 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:59,240 to see that concert together in February of next year and now they're not going to go 758 00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:01,160 because they've broken up." 759 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,480 Like that's a really helpful thing to keep in the back of your head and reach out and 760 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,720 February and be like, "It's still hard. 761 00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:09,040 It's okay that it's still hard if it isn't." 762 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:10,040 Yeah. 763 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:11,040 And I will add one more thing. 764 00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:16,040 I think sometimes people assume that if you're in a long-term relationship, let's say you're 765 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:22,600 married, you might think, "Oh, this person doesn't want to spend time with me because 766 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,400 I'm showing what they don't have." 767 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:26,400 That's not necessarily true. 768 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:32,320 I feel like I became this third wheel fixture with some of my friends that were in relationships 769 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,440 and it was just great to have the company. 770 00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,760 There are times where you're like, "I don't want to be around a lovy, dovy couple," but 771 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:43,760 there are times where it's like, "Just because," and I think again, this happens a lot with 772 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:50,080 people in their 30s where all of their friends are married, don't exclude someone just because 773 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:51,880 they're going through a breakup. 774 00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,120 Yeah, or just because they're the only one not married. 775 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:55,120 Yeah. 776 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,280 Because they're the only one in the group with a dead dad. 777 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,280 Or whatever you're saying. 778 00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:59,280 Yes. 779 00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,400 Maybe I'm like, "Yes, you may be special in your own way, but that doesn't mean there isn't 780 00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,640 other stuff to connect about." 781 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,640 Like unless it's explicitly a couple's related event. 782 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,560 Like, "Oh my gosh, absolutely. 783 00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,640 That's such a great tip too, because I'm like, they can still come bowling." 784 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,960 Like, why are you trying to kick them out of the bowling? 785 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:16,960 Yes. 786 00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,800 And they may say, "No, they may say, "You know what? 787 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,840 I don't really want to be around a lot of couples tonight, but thank you for thinking 788 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:24,800 of me and including me. 789 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:30,320 You know, I think in any sense, like anytime you're going through any type of grief event, 790 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:34,920 feeling left out or feeling isolated or feeling like everyone's just going to look at me. 791 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,880 Like, my puppy just got run over. 792 00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:44,680 You know, I think being able to still connect with them in some way of normalcy can be helpful. 793 00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:46,280 Yeah, absolutely. 794 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,360 And the phrase, "This also comes from, of course I'm here right now." 795 00:45:49,360 --> 00:45:52,520 But I haven't forgotten that you're grieving as a big one. 796 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,080 Because I'm going to keep issuing invitations. 797 00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,600 It's okay to say no, but I'm going to make sure that you're still invited. 798 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:02,640 It's such a huge way to show that you give a shit about somebody who's going through anything. 799 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,760 It's like, "I'm not going to stop inviting you just because this thing is true, because 800 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:09,840 the going back to stories that we were talking about at the beginning of this conversation, 801 00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:12,480 a big story grieving people tell is it's personal. 802 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:16,640 I'm the root cause of why no one wants to hang out with me or my loss is the root cause 803 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:18,800 of why no one wants to hang out with me." 804 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,320 And generally that's not the case, but friends and family. 805 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,520 They think they're being considerate or think they're conserving your energy or they're 806 00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:28,200 protecting you from being around all these couples when in reality it's like just sending 807 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,200 invitation. 808 00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,120 Grievous or I'm going to gender this, but Grievous are big boys who can say no sometimes. 809 00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:35,120 Exactly. 810 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,120 Yes. 811 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,120 People, if you're bridges and say no, thanks. 812 00:46:37,120 --> 00:46:40,960 I don't want to be around a lot of couples, but at least issue the invitation. 813 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:41,960 Absolutely. 814 00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:42,960 What a great tip. 815 00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,880 Kendra, I'd love to know if somebody is going through a breakup right now or wants 816 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,520 resources for supporting someone through a breakup. 817 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,600 Where can they find you and your work? 818 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,600 Yeah. 819 00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,480 I mean, the best place to connect with me is on Instagram. 820 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,720 I'm at your breakup bestie. 821 00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:59,480 That's where I will post my weekly podcast. 822 00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:07,120 If you are going through a breakup, I have 320 episodes that you can binge through on so 823 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,560 many different topics of long breakups. 824 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,000 You can listen to two of Shelby's episodes. 825 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:14,920 I also on breakupbestie.com. 826 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:22,480 I have five different courses, resources, some helping with staying no contact with an 827 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,480 X that you're feeling hopeful towards. 828 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:28,880 I have the breakup first aid kit, which is like what the heck do I do? 829 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,920 And then some as you progress through the healing journey. 830 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,640 So yeah, breakupbestie.com. 831 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:36,640 I love it. 832 00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,520 All different stages and different pain points too. 833 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,520 If this is your thing, start here. 834 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,360 If this is your thing, start here. 835 00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,880 That's really helpful because some of us like me need no help. 836 00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:46,880 No help going no contact. 837 00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,880 Yes. 838 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:53,040 But the thing that I love blocking people, but the thing that I always need the most help with 839 00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,880 in my past instances of breakup I'm married now. 840 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,440 But it's just like the getting out of the house part. 841 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,800 It's like I'm so good at sitting here and feeling miserable. 842 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,000 Like I'm really good at that. 843 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,400 Part of that might be why I'm a grief coach. 844 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,040 But the other part of it is like, no, there is a world out there. 845 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,800 And even just dipping one toe in, not even one foot can be helpful. 846 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,320 And even just having somebody tilt my head up just a little bit and be like, look around. 847 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:18,960 There's other stuff to see here. 848 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:19,960 So crucial. 849 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,640 So like the breakup first aid kit is probably the first thing I would have reached for. 850 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,440 I was like, nope, I already blocked them. 851 00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:25,440 Yeah. 852 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,640 No, don't need help with that. 853 00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:29,120 Now what do I do? 854 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:30,120 Yes. 855 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,120 Yes. 856 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:32,120 I love it. 857 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:35,000 Well, thank you so much for coming on grief grower today and talking about the very real 858 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,720 grief event of breakups. 859 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,200 I am so glad to have spoken with you today. 860 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:40,200 Thank you for having me. 861 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:41,840 This was again such an honor. 862 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:49,400 So thank you. 863 00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,560 That's all for this episode of Grief Grower. 864 00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:54,840 Thank you so much for joining me and Kendra today. 865 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,400 If you're looking for grief support beyond this show, you can find free workshops, blog 866 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,320 articles, and my new book, of course I'm here right now, three actually helpful things 867 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:06,920 to say to someone grieving at shallbeforcithia.com/links. 868 00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:10,600 And if you'd like to get support from me for your unique loss experience, join us in 869 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,760 life after loss academy, my online course, and community. 870 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:19,320 As a student, I'll walk you through my five step grief framework, GRIEF, for rebuilding 871 00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:24,720 after loss, and you can get live coaching from me every single week to answer your questions. 872 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:27,400 Replays are always available if you can't attend life. 873 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:32,600 It's just $33 a month to join or $22 a month if you're a marginalized or financially stressed 874 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:33,600 griever. 875 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,960 You can cancel at any time. 876 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:40,480 If this podcast felt validating, comforting, educational, or otherwise helpful to you, please 877 00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:44,400 subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. 878 00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:48,160 And be sure to share Grief Grower with a friend because you never know what someone you love 879 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:49,720 is going through. 880 00:49:49,720 --> 00:49:54,120 Grief Grower is hosted by me shallbeforcithia with the music composed by our own Adequal 881 00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,280 Tstee. 882 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,560 Until next time, Grief Grower's, I see you. 883 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,920 I am so proud of you and the work that you're doing in the world. 884 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:02,440 And I love you. 885 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,760 even through grief we are crying.