1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,640 Think you're good at listening because you can repeat the last thing someone said think again 2 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:15,600 Most executives only capture a fraction of what's actually being communicated and that's costing them big 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:24,280 On today's executive connect podcast. We're welcoming Oscar Trumboli best-selling author and host of the award-winning 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:26,600 deep listening podcast 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:37,760 He's worked with over 1500 organizations to teach leaders how to go beyond words and uncover insights and drive powerful decisions 6 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:44,400 Ready to upgrade your listening skills and transform your leadership impact. Let's dive in 7 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,240 Welcome Oscar 8 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:51,640 Good. I'm Alyssa looking forward to listening to your questions today. I 9 00:00:52,520 --> 00:01:01,520 Love it now you've been building an impressive career helping leaders go beyond just hearing words to truly listening with meaning 10 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:08,040 What interests you and this passion for deep listening and how did you learn and 11 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:13,960 Lead on your mission of creating a hundred thousand deep listeners 12 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:19,840 Well, you have to zoom into a ordering meeting in April 13 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:28,800 2008 I'm in a three-way video conference between Sydney Seattle and Singapore and we're setting the annual budget for Microsoft and 14 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:36,640 You can imagine there are lots of people in this very long boardroom and 20 minutes in my supervisor 15 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:41,480 My vice president looks me straight in the eye across the room and she says Oscar 16 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:48,400 We need to talk immediately after this meeting now. I know about you Melissa when you get the honey. We need to talk conversation 17 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:51,440 It's not gonna be good so 18 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:59,400 To be quite honest. I didn't listen to anything that happened in the rest of that budget meeting which cost me on my budget line a little bit later on 19 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:04,040 and all I was trying to do was figure out how many weeks of salary I had left and 20 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,360 Who the five people I'm gonna call together job 21 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:12,400 Meeting finished a little early and as everybody walked out Tracy said to me 22 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:18,040 Oscar police closed the door because what I have to say to you is very important and as I kind of step back after 23 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,000 closing the door 24 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:21,480 She says to me 25 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:26,160 Oscar you have no idea what you do at the 20-minute mark and I thought great 26 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:28,760 I'm getting fired and I don't even know why I 27 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:34,840 sat down and Tracy said if you could code how you listen you could change the world 28 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,920 What I heard was whoo. I haven't been fired 29 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,480 and 30 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:47,440 The difference between hearing and listening is the action you take and 31 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:57,880 Ever since then I haven't tried to code how I listen but I've tried to code how the best listeners in the world listen with within a few hundred of them from 32 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,160 Hostage negotiators to dolphin trainers and 33 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Journalists and judges and 34 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:15,520 Deaf people and blind people to to understand what great listening is so that's where it started and since then we've coded it into software into books into 35 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,400 Cheek saw puzzle games and into the consulting methodologies for use 36 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:27,660 Deep listen deep listening isn't just a skill. It's a discipline that one must practice 37 00:03:27,660 --> 00:03:36,520 So can you break down some of those core elements of deep listening and explain how executives can apply them in their day to day? 38 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:41,040 Well one of the first fallacies of listening is that 39 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,560 focusing on the speaker is where listening starts 40 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:53,360 Kind of that's handy, but it's not actually productive the step but most people skip when it comes to listening is listening to themselves 41 00:03:53,360 --> 00:04:00,960 They have so many browser tabs open in their own mind and this is multiplied for executives where I have 42 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,280 Balanced meeting the next meeting the upcoming 43 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,760 resolution of 44 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,920 customer issue quality issue production issue 45 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:15,600 They've got so many things going on in their mind and they don't have available memory to help everyone out 46 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,160 So 47 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:24,080 There's three things I would say that everybody needs to know about listening and the first one is don't focus on the speaker 48 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,080 Start by focusing on you 49 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:34,600 The second one is it's great to listen to what people say. It's even more powerful to notice what they haven't said and 50 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,520 If you know the numbers of listening 51 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,120 it becomes really simple and 52 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:45,880 Don't focus on yourself. Know what the speaker is going through 53 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:52,120 The speaker can speak at 125 to 150 words a minute if they're selling property 54 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,960 They might speak at 200 words per minute. They might go a little faster. You can still understand 55 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,480 Here's the challenge for the speaker although they can get a 56 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:06,880 150 125 words out per minute in their head. I have 900 words per minute. They're trying to get out 57 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:13,360 So the very first thing that somebody says is 14% of what they think 58 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:22,180 So if you're only focused on what they said the first time you're missing 86% of what they think and what they mean 59 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:27,680 And if you want employees and customers to be seen heard and valued 60 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:32,320 By noticing what they haven't said you'll make a big impact 61 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:38,960 So when it comes to listening that the three things we talk about continuously is one 62 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,400 Get yourself right 63 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:43,720 to 64 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,680 Make sure that you can hear not just what they say the first time 65 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,560 But create some space so they can say what they think and what they mean and 66 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:56,200 then finally if you can hear what they mean 67 00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:05,840 Rather than what they said you'll have an impact beyond words and often say to people if I said to you Melissa 3 is half of 8 68 00:06:05,840 --> 00:06:10,400 What will go through your head you'd properly say Oscar's wrong? 69 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,720 You misspoke and 70 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:13,800 yet 71 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,800 3 is half of 8 and 72 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,600 Zero is half of 8 and so is 4 73 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:27,760 See while you're listening to me speaking you're thinking mathematically and you go 4 Oscar 4 is the only answer 74 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:33,320 But if you drew the figure 8 on a piece of paper and cut it in half and 75 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:41,760 Thought about it geometrically you've got two three's when you cut an 8 in half and you've got two zeros when you cut the 8 in half in the middle 76 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:45,160 Every day we're having conversations with people 77 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,420 Where they're saying 3 is half of 8 and then your head you're going no no no you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong 78 00:06:51,420 --> 00:06:55,720 In fact, they're just looking at the world in a completely different way 79 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,840 So that's how to think about listening beyond the words 80 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:06,920 And I feel like I 14% is such a crazy number to me that's not very good if you're 81 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,520 in sales or dealing with people on a regular basis so 82 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:18,160 You know most of us focus on like you said what's being said, but really 83 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,800 What's not being said so when people are 84 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:28,680 Talking to someone how can they is it really just asking the right question so 14% 85 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:37,120 Listened leaving silence and asking more questions for clarification. Oh, yes, if it was only that simple 86 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,880 Yes, that's a great stopping point 87 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:43,520 and 88 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:47,520 But I want to allow you a very simple technique 89 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:52,280 By the way if you work in a complex collaborative or competitive environment 90 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:59,420 The average person thinks that 900 words per minute, but if you're in those complex environments 91 00:07:59,420 --> 00:08:06,160 You're thinking up to 1600 words per minute, which means what you say the first time is 5% of what you think 92 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:10,960 So here's the tip the words silent 93 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,280 And the word listen share the identical letters 94 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:20,200 If you want to notice what somebody hasn't said 95 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:26,400 If you just pause if you just use silence 96 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,600 It's like a magnet to pull out what they mean 97 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,280 For many of us 98 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,600 particularly in the West 99 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,600 particularly in Western workplaces 100 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,400 We feel an urge to fill the silence 101 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,480 We have our negative relationship with silence 102 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,320 We call it the awkward silence the pregnant pause the deafening silence 103 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:56,440 In high context cultures China career Japan 104 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:02,080 The in-your-of-north America the Polynesian cultures the Australian Aboriginal cultures 105 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:05,880 Silence is a sign of wisdom respect and authority 106 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,560 So if you're looking for one simple thing 107 00:09:09,560 --> 00:09:12,080 To draw out what I mean 108 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:17,640 Quite often silence is the most difficult thing you're ever going to play with 109 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,960 Treat silence like a word 110 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:26,760 Listen to the beginning of the middle and the end of silence which will give you enough time to go 111 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,880 Oh, they haven't finished what they think 112 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:34,720 They're just moving on to explaining it in a different way 113 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,000 Most people have a jumbled mess of spaghetti inside their head 114 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,120 And it's unlikely they can say what they mean the very very first time 115 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,640 If you're looking for two simple other phrases 116 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:52,760 These phrases take the 117 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,600 Conversation in very different directions 118 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:00,640 Tell me more keeps the conversation going in the same direction 119 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:02,640 So if you want to listen for what similar 120 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:07,560 If you want to bring the group together 121 00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:12,280 If it's a group conversation it's always tell me more 122 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,400 So that keeps the conversation going in the same direction 123 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:20,080 But if you're listening trying to listen for difference 124 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:28,360 And most people are uneven conscious that they listen for similarities exclusively because they're just trying to pattern match with past experience 125 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,760 The other one is and what else? 126 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,120 now 127 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,600 questions with eight words or less 128 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,720 neutral or unbiased and 129 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:49,680 in the early part of a conversation in the early part of a relationship in the early part of a project you want to watch neutral questions 130 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:57,160 In the middle towards the end of the conversation or a project you do want to ask close questions 131 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:02,520 So a lot of people say you should always ask open-ended questions 132 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:05,440 That's true if you're a psychiatrist 133 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:10,320 But if you're in a workplace and you got finite resources you have to allocate 134 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,200 Bice questions have a place as well 135 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:21,200 And the pause I always think of like I've been in some of those meetings that you're talking about where everybody is talking 136 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:30,120 Posing is almost like it's so uncomfortable that it makes people you could tell who's paying attention to right when you pause 137 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:37,040 I feel like the pause a lot of times you I could always tell oh they know they're not paying attention and it also is like 138 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,400 like you said a seeker lepon 139 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,440 to 140 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,760 Really getting more information but also paying attention to see who's paying attention 141 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:48,400 And I think now do you think it's because 142 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:56,200 The westerners are just uncomfortable with the pause or do you think it's just a lack of discipline? 143 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,040 I think comes to what's role modeled in the culture by the leader 144 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:05,160 If you've got leaders who are comfortable with 145 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,160 the unknown 146 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:13,200 To explore to experiment to not think they have the answer to every question 147 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,200 Now you'll see pauses and silence and 148 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:19,880 Always present 149 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,360 If you if you're like use weight 150 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:25,400 W 151 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:26,840 Hey IT 152 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:31,400 Why am I talking as a way to think about silence? 153 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:37,960 So if you can't remember silent and listening have the same letters just remember weight why am I talking? 154 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,560 because often 155 00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:47,640 particularly in group settings the lead as role is not to get everybody to listen to the active speaker 156 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:53,640 The leaders role in groups is to get everybody to listen to each other and 157 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:55,480 creating 158 00:12:55,480 --> 00:13:03,760 That space whether through silence or an offer for somebody else to provide input is a great way to get a different 159 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,160 And possibly better solution to the same problem 160 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,840 So leaders set the tone and 161 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,560 If leaders are comfortable flexing that muscle 162 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:21,800 Then the group becomes more comfortable as well particularly if people are jumping in in turn taking and 163 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:27,920 The leader might say I noticed that Mary hadn't quite finished Oscar 164 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,440 Hold that thought we're gonna come back to you 165 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:38,200 This is particularly plays out with the classic introvert extrovert dynamic in a meeting as well 166 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:42,000 I want to go back to that example 167 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,480 You set at the beginning with the budget meeting and everybody's in the room now 168 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,160 How like playing off that example? 169 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:53,480 How how do you teach leaders in those situations where? 170 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,720 You know, there's multiple executives in the room 171 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:03,200 You know everybody has to give their you know their pitch to get their dollars. How do you teach them? 172 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:11,480 These skills that you're talking about is there a certain method that you use or how do you teach them that so they can make better decisions? 173 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:14,040 in their careers 174 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:21,840 Well the first thing to think about is listening and communication happens before during and after those set-piece meetings 175 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:27,480 A lot of the success of those meetings happen well before the meeting 176 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:34,080 It's a piece of theater to be honest whether that's a set-piece meeting that's 177 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:40,560 presidential negotiation all the works done by others before hand 178 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:46,320 The during pieces really critical if you're the leader who's hosting that meeting 179 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:51,000 process is as important as content 180 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,520 how you 181 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,800 Set time up how you ask questions 182 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,280 How you allocate time to various parts of it 183 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:09,320 Most leaders I work with have agendas and think that's the answer and in most cases 184 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:11,720 It's the answer to the output 185 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:17,000 It's not the answer to the process or the imports that are coming into the conversation 186 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,560 So during the meeting 187 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,600 No matter how many participants there are if you don't ask this question 188 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,200 Most people will zone out during team meetings 189 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:34,360 If you don't ask this question you won't get the most from everybody if you don't ask this question 190 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,920 You won't get discretionary effort if you don't ask this question 191 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,360 You won't get the left field breakthrough ideas and the question is simply this 192 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,040 What would make this a great meeting 193 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:51,680 Not what would make this a great meeting for you which I hear a lot of executives ask 194 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,840 But we're actually not interested in what will make it a great meeting for the participant 195 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:01,200 We're asking for the collective so we want everybody to go around the room and say well 196 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,840 We'll make it a great meeting because when somebody zones out 197 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:10,680 I invite them to go listen for what the other person said and 198 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,720 That will give you a different perspective in terms of listening 199 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,960 So before the meeting make sure you have 200 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:26,080 Everybody who are the right people in the room with the right inputs during the meeting make sure you have the right process set up 201 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:32,960 By asking this question what will make it a good meeting conversation project 202 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,320 Acquisition procurement process 203 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:45,160 You can interrupt people that tell the same story just different ways a lot of people say oh I can't listen to these people 204 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,160 They just go on and on and it's like 205 00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:52,600 When you ask that question at the beginning you have a permission slip to interrupt them 206 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,880 Melissa at the beginning of the meeting you mentioned this would make it a great meeting 207 00:16:56,880 --> 00:17:00,280 Given where you're out with the story how are we tracking? 208 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:06,440 They will self correct in most cases and if they don't and lack the self awareness 209 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,600 Then you can just say look given the time available 210 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,480 Could you wrap it up? Could you say it in a sentence? 211 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:21,040 Whatever the case may be that also make a point to check in with them a lot of times the reason people say things over and over and over again 212 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,280 They feel like they haven't been heard 213 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:29,240 Finally after the meeting this is where the biggest impact happens 214 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:37,420 The difference between hearing and listening is action if you don't take the actions and the actions of a 215 00:17:37,420 --> 00:17:41,800 Regret in the meeting nobody will ever think you're listening in group meetings 216 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,680 So again you need a process for tracking actions and 217 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:52,040 Checking in on actions before the next meeting so listening happens before during and after a meeting 218 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:59,280 I love it made me when you when you were saying I'm one of those people that have all these file folders open 219 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:05,840 So let me go for meeting to meeting to meeting we're still digesting the last meeting and the meeting before the other meeting 220 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,120 You know to figure out what we got to get done and then we're showing up to a meeting that we're 221 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:18,440 You know responsible for bringing something so how does one navigate and juggle that right? I think even for myself 222 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:23,120 I do like you said have all those file folders open and when I 223 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,800 Get on a call 224 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:29,200 I'm still trying to like who saw and like bring it down 225 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,920 To to really lean in and focus on the current meeting. So is there any 226 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:44,500 You know tips for those leaders and executives that are going for meeting to meeting really attacking the day and problem-solving all the time that you can share 227 00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:47,280 Yeah, I'm gonna give you two 228 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,920 both very practical number one 229 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:58,040 Well, listen if you had to speculate what percentage of meetings do you create like is it 50% 80% 230 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,560 20% 231 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:08,380 Great for those 50% of meetings is your most common meeting a one-hour meeting or a 30 minute meeting 232 00:19:08,380 --> 00:19:11,800 I've been trying to do the 233 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:19,880 25 meeting mark and the 50 meeting mark so there's kind of minutes in between the other meetings 234 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:22,520 I heard the trying I 235 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:28,720 Didn't hear what you said after that. So are you doing it or are you trying it? 236 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:37,240 Well in my in my industry everything happens at the last end of the meeting right everything happens at the end 237 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,240 So we kind of waste the beginning 238 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:45,280 Parts of the meeting then we get into the meeting and then everything happens at the end because like you were saying at the beginning 239 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,280 Not everybody was paying attention 240 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:53,600 So we're really going back and addressing all of those things. So I would say I 241 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,560 Give myself a C 242 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,560 I could be doing that 243 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:06,520 Most executives would and if you've got an assistant just handover and delegate it to them 244 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,600 But the further one hour meeting is definitely the five minutes either side 245 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:16,200 When your book a meeting with me it's ten minutes after the hour and 246 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,480 Everybody says to me at the beginning did you make a mistake? 247 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:23,000 We meant to meet it ten after the hour. I said no 248 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:27,200 No, that that was by design and they go oh, that's great because I had a restroom break 249 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:31,160 Had a chance to collect my thoughts and I also 250 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,800 Take off ten minutes at the end 251 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:39,400 So they can process the meeting so for the 50% you're in charge of 252 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,840 you can 253 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:43,200 time box it 254 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:49,280 So that you and the participants have got time either side of it because if you started the top of the hour 255 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,360 And it's a group meeting people still gonna arrive five minutes after the hour. It's like 256 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:56,840 Sorry, so I was running late 257 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:05,240 I had a listen that ran over because the big breakthrough idea only came at the last minute in the last meeting and and they're not there 258 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,320 They're physically present but they're mentally not present 259 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,600 So listening as humans as we evolved we learned to listen 260 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:24,960 After we learned to see so our eyesight is more evolved than our listening our listening happens in the more modern part of the brain 261 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:32,280 The prefrontal cortex so shutting down those browser tabs is really difficult because we're using working memory 262 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:38,960 The brain 5% of body mass but it consumes 25% of blood sugars 263 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,400 That this is where the work happens. So the second tip is this 264 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Drink water drink a glass of water before the meeting starts and it sends a signal to the parasympathetic nervous system 265 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:58,200 That's all the nervous system around your chest and lungs to go relax everything's okay 266 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:02,920 Now if you just time box it and drink the water 267 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,560 You're gonna be miles ahead listening is a skill 268 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,880 It's a strategy and it's a discipline 269 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,600 It's not something that 270 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:19,560 Oscar clicks his magic fingers come on the course and off you go it's done 271 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,440 You're the world's best listener now 272 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,720 Listening takes discipline it takes practice takes consistency 273 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,520 The listening is a contact sport the only way you can practice it is by being in dialogue with another human 274 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:35,880 So greatly you're trying the time boxing 275 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,960 With your teams 276 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,960 If you're a leader 277 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,120 Hopefully that will cascade into the meetings they create as well 278 00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:51,880 So the time boxing happens and explain to people why you're time boxing as often as possible 279 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,120 Because time is the only finite resource we have in an organization 280 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,200 money people 281 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,560 That much more flexible than our time 282 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,960 Yeah, I love that that's a great the great tips now 283 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,160 We talked a little bit at the beginning you mentioned Japan and some other 284 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:17,240 Cultures that have you know they they have been trained to do it. It's embedded into their culture 285 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:27,120 Now how can we take what's being used in other parts of the world and really embed it and bad deep listening into our corporate culture is there a way 286 00:23:27,120 --> 00:23:35,240 That one could kind of blend that into a culprit culture if a culture is not as you said into 287 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:36,920 deep listening 288 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,560 And everybody is kind of just fighting their way through the meeting is there a way to embed that 289 00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:45,000 See there's what I did I read I re ask the question 290 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:51,480 Beautiful beautiful example of 125 words per minute Melissa. Thank you 291 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:58,440 Completely out of a rest and well done, but that's a perfect example of that and if you go back and he molasses 292 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:04,360 First-day question and the host second question that actually had very different emphasis in meaning in them 293 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:12,360 So as a as a leader in a corporate system one of the things you want to pay attention to for the meetings you run is this 294 00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,240 How many 295 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:20,840 Statements are made versus how many questions are made during a conversation you can keep a tally of this just 296 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:26,360 Put your little one two three four five and then stroke with a gate so you can keep tallys in five 297 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:30,680 And then just notice the ratio of statements to questions 298 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:39,640 For underperforming teams the statement ratio is very much higher in underperforming teams to the questions 299 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:49,080 Now depending there's no magic formula and 50 50 is probably not a good start start for 25% questions 300 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:53,160 And 75% statements that's a good starting point 301 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,560 Here's the most important thing you've got to pay attention to 302 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:04,600 When you look at the questions how many of those questions are clarifying questions 303 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:11,400 most people are answering the question that wasn't asked 304 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:18,040 Why because they didn't allow enough space for Melissa to say it the second time 305 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,920 Or confirm with Melissa when you said x did you mean 306 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,360 X or did you mean Y or did you mean Z or did you mean something else 307 00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:34,280 Clarifying questions should be at least 10% of the total 308 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:41,800 Conversation and should represent at least a third of all questions asked 309 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:47,800 When you increase the clarifying question ratio in team meetings 310 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,240 Your meetings will actually be shorter 311 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:59,400 Those examples that Melissa talked about earlier where everything kind of comes at the end of the meeting 312 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,000 That's because we're just not listening 313 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:05,080 Effectively and we get the chance to pull up fall wood 314 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,200 By asking some simple clarifying questions 315 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:13,720 Because remember again most of us are going for four four is half of eight you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong 316 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:18,040 Well, I'm thinking geometrically you're thinking in mathematics 317 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,240 So maybe we just need to agree on the language 318 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:24,200 So for leaders just keep a count 319 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,160 You can do this in your one-on-ones as well 320 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:31,800 Just keep a running count of how many times you're asking questions versus 321 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,680 statements the opposite is true too 322 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,160 Too many questions 323 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:43,160 Doesn't feel like listening it just feels like you're loading up more ammunition in a gun to put somebody in a court 324 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,360 So be careful with how many questions you ask as well 325 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:49,400 Which one of those is helpful for you 326 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,600 I call that interrogation the too many questions 327 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,040 Yeah, I know 328 00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,960 Go ahead sorry sorry 329 00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:06,360 No, no, I just noticed your head tilted very differently when I talked about clarifying questions compared to statement to question right 330 00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:08,600 Shows and I think you heard it a little differently 331 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,800 Yeah, and I think 332 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,960 For me sometimes I know I'm guilty 333 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:21,000 Jumping to conclusions, right? I'm coming hot out of a meeting and I know what's a meeting is going to be about 334 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:27,480 And so I instantly think I know what's gonna so I'm instantly jumping to conclusions 335 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:36,360 I guilty of it guilty of that and so how can we teach people to not be that 336 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:41,480 Jumping to conclusions you know talking over people 337 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,440 interrupting people finishing people senses is there 338 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:54,040 Is it simple is just muting your your computer so you just don't do it or is there another 339 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,080 So there's 340 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:05,160 For for for primary barriers to listening we're very such 35,000 white place listeners across the world in English speaking 341 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:11,640 Workplaces and there's four things that get in their way number one the one you said 342 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,840 I've been there. I've done that 343 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:19,960 I it's not my first rodeo I can patent match I can solve hurry up 344 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:25,160 Finish a sentence because I know the answer right so we call that the shiroud listening villain 345 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,760 That are awesome. They give great listening. They give you lots of mm-hmm, uh-huh 346 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:36,040 In their head they're not paying attention at all the side hurry ups. I can tell you the answer 347 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:42,200 And what the speaker says in our research is all they're trying to do is fix me they're not actually listening 348 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,000 So notice they say fix me not the problem 349 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:56,360 So for those shrewd listening villains out there your disproportionately represented in finance in accounting in human resources in 350 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,920 General and executive leadership 351 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,480 any service function 352 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,640 IT and 353 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:11,080 Sales shrewd is disproportionately represented there interrupting is someone who's very conscious of time 354 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:19,080 And but they're the jeopardy quiz contestant who presses the buzzer before the host and they answer the wrong question and get it wrong 355 00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,720 And what the speaker says is you know one more bother talking, you know 356 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,200 So you're creating friction in the relationship 357 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,520 The final two is lost. I don't know my purpose in this meeting 358 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,120 I don't know why I've been invited. I don't even know my place in the meeting 359 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:40,760 So you come across as vague and disinterested in the meeting ask that question if the host doesn't ask you 360 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,200 What what will make this a good meeting? 361 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,360 So you can understand would you like me to listen from the customers perspective? 362 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,160 Would you like me to listen from the competitors perspective? 363 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:53,480 What perspective would you like me to bring in this meeting? 364 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,360 And then the final one the dramatic listener 365 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:03,160 They love listening to your story. Oh, I'm struggling with my manager. This is the worst merger I've ever gone through 366 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,160 Oh, let me tell you about my manager 367 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,280 I've got I've got an even worse manager than you all of a sudden the spot white goes on to them 368 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:16,680 So if you want to find out which one of the four listening villains gets in your way 369 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:21,720 You can go to listeningquiz.com you can take the seven minute 20 question assessment 370 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,960 You'll get a five page report 371 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,320 It'll tell you not only what your primary and secondary villain is but it also give you 372 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:35,720 Three pages of tips about what to do about that combination of villains in yours 373 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:41,880 I'm not going to ask you to out yourself Melissa because you already have you're the shrewd listening villain 374 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,600 Yeah, we listen differently at home 375 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:50,200 Then we listen our work at work. I'm a shrewd listening villain at home 376 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:57,320 I'm lost my brother-in-law's bang on about religion all the time when they come over dinner is like 377 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:05,880 And they religion is the religion of canon versus Nikon it's photography and like my my camera is my phone 378 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,680 It's like occasionally I pretend I'm interested in the conversation but most of the time I'm not 379 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,520 so 380 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:20,120 I'm completely zoned out. I don't know my purpose in that conversation 381 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:29,080 So your skills of listening dumb well at work you can bring them into home as well at least you need to be aware of what gets in your way 382 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,400 Now you're making me question my listening 383 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,720 I'm thinking through how I'm doing listening I find for me 384 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,880 I have to put myself on a way and everything down 385 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:49,080 Otherwise, I'm distracted with listening with the beings and the the calls and the this and the this so like you were 386 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,360 We listen different in our work in our home 387 00:31:52,360 --> 00:32:00,200 I know in my home if I don't put the phone away for I'm half listening which we know if I'm half listening 388 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,440 I can't possibly be really listening 389 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:10,840 So for me the the simple thing of putting the phone down in a way and sitting 390 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:17,560 And not thinking about what I need to be doing next and not what I need to be accomplishing later 391 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:23,800 Is the only way I've really been grounded in listening personally with my children and my family 392 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360 So I have to practice this more 393 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,360 Maybe I'll try the phone putting the phone away at work and see how that works 394 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:33,720 Focus in better 395 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:40,120 You're you're my me an executive of flew from the US to Australia effectively a 24 hour flight 396 00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,760 I was hosting a room of 30 CEOs on his behalf, Peter's behalf 397 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:52,040 He sat down the meeting was about to commence. I introduced everybody and then he got up 398 00:32:52,040 --> 00:33:00,680 And went to his bag and put his cell phone in his bag and he sat down and he said look I've traveled 24 hours to be here 399 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,480 I apologize 400 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,480 I need to bring my full and undivided attention to this conversation 401 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,680 19 402 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,680 of the 403 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,680 30 executives did exactly the same straight away 404 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:22,280 As a leader why you raw model to your teams will get you located 405 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,480 Now I know after the fact that this is a piece of theatre 406 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:34,920 That Peter created to make sure the executives paid attention to him and nothing to do with that 407 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,280 And more importantly as he said to me laid Oscar 408 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:43,800 I don't care if they pay attention to me. I wanted them to pay attention to each other 409 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:49,640 And that's the difference between a good host and a great host a good host gets everybody listen to them 410 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,920 A great host gets everybody to listen to each other 411 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,760 So what are you role modeling when it comes to devices 412 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:03,560 Are you role modeling frantic? Are you role modeling sneaky? Are you role modeling or 413 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,760 Can you simply say 414 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,080 Look 415 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,080 My dad's under medical care 416 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,200 He's got an appointment today my phone will be on 417 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,680 The only reason I'll answer it is his from his doctor 418 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,520 So if that phone does ring people don't get oh yeah 419 00:34:23,720 --> 00:34:29,560 Tells all of us to do it right but he doesn't do it himself. So there are situations where you can't 420 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:35,880 Switch the phone or you might have a child at sick or a daycare center that needs to contact you 421 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,160 There are many reasons why the phone should be on 422 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:42,040 And signal that to the team 423 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,520 But it should be the exception rather than all 424 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:50,520 And that's a really great example too because you're being so authentic and honest 425 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,680 And I think that builds trust with people and you know 426 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,560 You're not becoming a hypocrite like you were mentioning to 427 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,000 Tell them they can't be on their phone but you're on your phone 428 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,960 So I love that example that's so such a really important example 429 00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,280 Now do you think any of it has to do 430 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:12,840 With the technology itself like the 431 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:18,600 Constant need I kind of feel sometimes the phones kind of like an addiction and I feel like 432 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,600 We're constantly feeling like we have to be busy and 433 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,520 Important in doing things and answering texts and 434 00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:35,000 Social media is is that planning and to any of it you think or is it just flat learning how to be a better listener 435 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:43,880 So I want to apologize I'm from the industry that created all those distractions 436 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,720 I sold 437 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:49,800 Email systems and instant messengers systems and video conference systems 438 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,680 And what I taught then and what I teach now is actually not different 439 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,400 By default you should switch all those notifications off 440 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:06,040 Right that that you have a new mail whether that's on your phone or on your 441 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,480 tablet or on your desktop 442 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,320 really 443 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,320 Doesn't really matter that much 444 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:21,480 Or is it more important to role model being present to the person or people who are in front of you 445 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:27,480 Use the technology don't let the technology use you 446 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,520 You have one button in every operating system 447 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:40,040 That if turned on will switch off all notifications based on what's in your calendar 448 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,080 So if your calendar is empty you'll get the notifications and if your calendar's got a meeting in it 449 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,080 I won't notify you 450 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:53,320 Before you did was just switch that setting in your operating system to on 451 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,040 No notifications during meetings 452 00:36:56,040 --> 00:37:00,120 That would help many many many many people 453 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:06,760 For a lot of people switching notifications off is like telling a drug addict they need to go call turkey 454 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,240 They will never do it 455 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:11,960 Maybe switch your phone to grayscale 456 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,600 When you're in those meetings 457 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:21,000 So those little red dots that go from one to two to three to four to five aren't as prominent for you 458 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:27,080 Learn how to use the vibrate feature rather than use the ring feature 459 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:35,400 Use the technology don't let the technology use you all those red dots and notifications and vibrations and sounds 460 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:44,200 All come from the exact same piece of research in 1973 that taught the software industry 461 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:52,360 Based on the slot machine industry in Las Vegas how to keep people pressing a button mindlessly to put coins in it 462 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,200 So if you want to be a mindless gambler 463 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,240 Keep your notifications on 464 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:08,520 It didn't occur to me until you said that oscar that I have had my phone on off the entire time I've owned my iPhone 465 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,520 I don't even think my phone is ever 466 00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,400 Raying unless it was an emergency and it didn't occur to me until just now that I have them all 467 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,920 I do not just turn or silent 468 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,240 So maybe that's why I'm more peaceful. I don't know that could be it. I didn't occur to me so just now 469 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:27,640 I want to get any 470 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:35,160 I want to ask you any final thoughts or anything that we didn't touch on that you want to leave with our listeners today 471 00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:42,840 Now simply a reminder that the first thing somebody said is unlikely to be what they think and what they mean 472 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,880 And if you truly want to have an impact beyond words 473 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,560 Listen to what they have to say 474 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,000 But notice what they haven't said is 475 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,880 The 86% sits in what they haven't said and when you hear 476 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:04,360 What they haven't said your meetings will be shorter. They'll be more productive and more impactful 477 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:10,040 That's great. Thank you for sharing that oscar now tell our listeners 478 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,920 Where they can connect with you and what's the best way? 479 00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:21,640 Please don't connect with me please connect with your listening visit listening quiz.com and learn about your listening 480 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,720 And if you do want to connect with me once you take the quiz you'll get all the 481 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,520 fancy pants coordinates in there where you can stay in touch with me if you want to 482 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:36,920 But it's more important you discover or get in the way of your listening than spending time talking to me 483 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:48,520 Thank you so much for being here oscar and sharing your time with our listeners. That's the executive connect podcast 484 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:58,520 [MUSIC]