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[MUSIC]

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Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast,

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a show for the new generation of leaders.

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Join Melissa R. Skog as she speaks to a wide variety of guests

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that bring new insights into leadership, prosperity, and personal growth.

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While now it has all the answers,

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by building a community of open-minded and engaged leaders,

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we hope to give you the tools you need to help you find your own path to success.

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[MUSIC]

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Hello and welcome to Executive Connect podcast.

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I'm so excited to have Cecille Mengay here with me today.

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She's a Cybersecurity Professional and Hacker at IBM XForce Red.

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She got there by actually experience a personal cyber attack,

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and it ignited her drive to get into the field of digital security,

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and publish her own book called Digital Security Overhaul,

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which equips individuals with knowledge and strategies

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to enhance their online security.

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Cecille, thank you so much for joining us today.

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I'm so excited to have you on the podcast.

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Yes, yes.

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Thank you so much for having me.

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Cecille, can you share the specific moment that was a turning point in your career

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and tell us a little bit about how you got into the field of cyber security?

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What can I start?

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I actually went to school and got a Bachelor of the Great Incriminal Justice.

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I always wanted to go to law school, right?

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So my path has always been in some kind of liberal arts area,

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nothing technical.

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But after graduation, I just kind of find myself online,

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just, they had this revolution of make money online,

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do things online and make money.

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I was like, OK, I could figure that out.

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So I find myself spending a lot of time online,

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just trying to be an entrepreneur and just create different avenue to make money.

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So I started doing event promotion.

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So I did a lot of event promotion online.

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So one day, I get back to my computer,

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and I have like a Ramson note on my laptop.

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And I was like, wow, how did that happen?

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So there was kind of like requesting for a $500 fee in order to release my computer

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if I needed to get my computer back.

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Would have it absolutely no clue of what actually just happened?

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I stopped panicking.

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So the only thing was now try to pay the money

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so that I could get access back to my computer.

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I didn't really think twice about it.

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And then I went ahead and paid the money.

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But one thing actually happened in that process as I paid the money,

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I thought that was going to be the end of my nightmare, right?

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But no, my attacker had already kind of like took over all my accounts,

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was kind of reaching out to multiple other people.

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And because I had such a poor cybersecurity, I would say,

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like I pretty much used the same password in every single card I had.

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So that allowed them even into my bank account,

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which they also ended up transferring that money.

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So I started dealing with like all my money being transferred,

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the money that I sent myself, my friends getting like different email,

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different information and it was all supposed to be coming from me.

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Then I kind of got interested.

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I was like, huh?

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I wonder how a complete stranger was just made it.

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I wonder how easy a complete stranger was able to just get into my life.

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And just almost pretty much take over it.

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Then I kind of became intrigued with that whole aspect.

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Then that kind of triggered me.

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I was like, I wonder what did they do?

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How did they do it?

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Then I started really studying.

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My very first question I remember in this place,

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like how do computer work, network communication, how do we come across this?

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So I started looking into it myself.

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Little by little, that passion of trying to figure out how I became,

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what I became the chosen one, because I didn't feel like I was that interesting, right?

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Of the billions of people online that you could have picked,

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I didn't think you would have picked me.

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So when I started to understand that it probably was something about me

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that made it easy for them to come after me.

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So I started trying to figure out what that thing was.

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And what I was kind of like, I got myself into this space of trying to figure this out.

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I really grew an interest of now.

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I wonder if I could find my attacker.

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Now, if I'm learning all these things and put in much the system that they use,

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and I start trying to start understanding how the whole thing worked,

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then I kind of set to myself.

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I was like, let me try to see if I could track my attacker down.

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Which, oh my god, it took me a while, but just kind of digging too.

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One of the big things that I kind of came across that changed my life was

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the Ocent framework, which kind of showed you different aspect of open source intelligence

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on the internet and finding information.

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But this attack on me was actually very elaborated.

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It was just not a one person thing.

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It was almost like a corporation.

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It was very elaborated.

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And it took every step to cover themselves.

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Right.

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Right.

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So, but one thing with the internet, like everything just kind of get interconnected.

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So the only thing I really have was the destination where I sent the physical money

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and first and last name.

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This particular person can find them nowhere online.

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I mean, I tried everything that I could.

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They were pretty much ghost, right?

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But I had an idea and I was like, let me step back.

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They had to put a unique last name.

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So I started thinking of ways of any kind of other connection outside of self.

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So I stepped back.

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I used, I called the city where my money was sent to.

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So they sent me a phone book and I saw like three other people with the same last name.

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So they was one lady that was in that phone book then.

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I went back online with what I knew at this point, but not she was helpful.

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Her footprint was everywhere.

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Her footprint was everywhere.

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Come to find out she kind of had she had a relation with the person that I sent my money to.

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So eventually, just going through her social media and different things,

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I find out that she had a brother who had the same name as the person that I sent the money to

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and who was in a band. I was able to find his phone number, her physical address,

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just enough information to build a pretext on what my conversation would be with her.

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So once I did all that, I eventually just picked up the phone and called

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and directly was just asking for her brother, which she kind of was upset and was like he doesn't leave

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here. I said, well, he just gave me this number. We playing on a band tonight and I need to get in touch

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with him. Do you know how I could get in touch with him? We went back and forth and she eventually

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gave me his cell phone number. So I called him and I'm like, hey, you know, I want no problem,

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but I sent you my money. Is that a way I can get the money back? And his first question was,

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which one are you? And I was like, hello. So this is not just me. So this is like,

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and come to find out he was just a middle guy and between a bigger scheme, right? So he really wasn't

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anything or he wasn't even my target. So I spoke with him. So his job was to pick up to pick up

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transaction, which he told me he picks up hundreds of times transaction a day. And then he forwarded

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to the next person. So he was through talking to him and trying to get all the information. He was

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able to give me the information of all the all the information he had because I just for he didn't

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even know what he was doing, right? So I got that information that was a little more information

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than I had. They went back online, you know, trying to figure, but the time I got to the very top person

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because the operation was actually out of London, but it's not like I got to the very top person,

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I've learned so much about computers at this point, networks, malware, build them, buy them, anything,

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anything you could think of like fishing. And I end up having to like send an efficient email to like

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the the the the top person in the operation, right? End of having to send a fishing email. That

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pretty much was very precise with all the information that I have on cover at this point. And

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then they called me and so they called me and they didn't do anything. They called me and we went

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back and forward. And they was very interested on how I was able to track them more than, you know,

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what they're doing wrong with me on the internet with everybody. So I kind of negociate. I was like

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if they return my money, I'll talk to them and I tell them like the clues and how I got here. So eventually

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they told me they promised me that was going to return my money, but they didn't at that moment.

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So I have another email now with more information on it and I sent it directly to the to the to the person

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over the operation and then he and the main guy the main guy. Yes. So he ended up finally clicking because

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it was more information than what I led on earlier, right? And he ended up clicking. So I ended up

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kind of like taking over his whole desktop like his computer. So now at that moment, I see all my money

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kind of like just transferring back into my account at this point. So they give me my money. So they

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give me my money back. Then I just kind of went to my bank and and kind of like settle with my bank

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and everything. But after that point, I never like had any other communication with him. And that kind

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of like got me interested. I was like, oh wow. First of all, I felt like I had at least like a skill

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or a passion. Where's not talk skills because I guess when I didn't think it was skill just yet.

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I had a passion. I always had a passion of kind of like protecting a good guy and like going after

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the bad guy, hinted my original, what is it called? My original degree in criminal justice because I

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always had a thing about going after the bad guy, protecting a good guy and all that. That's always

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a role that I play. But I never really saw myself. I never really saw myself play that role within

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like computer, like dealing with computers and not until that actually happened to me. And I feel

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like that's kind of what I kind of almost find my destiny in that.

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That story is so amazing and just perseverance and persistence and digging in to find your money.

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And because I would imagine I've not had an experience with this, but I've been part of multiple

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engagements where similar people have been taken advantage of or taken for ransom. And it almost

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feels like your identity is gone. Everything about you, you have no control. And it's interesting that

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you have this experience and it pivoted you into a completely different feels from criminal justice

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to cyber security, which is non-technical, to very technical. So what are some of the challenges you

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faced at the very beginning when you switched from into the cyber security industry without

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technical background over some of the challenges? Well, let's just kind of go back into,

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I think I was my biggest challenge, right? I was in my head a whole lot. There was so many

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times where I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. All I need to do is go back to school and just do

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this. Then I will go on Google and do my research and it's kind of like, I almost felt like everybody

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had the same story, right? It's like, yeah, I was five years old, my daddy gave me a computer,

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and ever since then I'd be like hacking away. And I was like, at this point, I'm like 20 some years

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old, right? There's nowhere, there's nowhere I could compete, right? So I started at start pulling back

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and to me at the very beginning, I was my biggest threat, I would say. I was the biggest, I was

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the biggest thing that held me back because I feel like the industry could be very intimidating

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when you're on the outside and is, and we start thinking, oh, okay, then come then you,

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then you, all these technical verbiages, like, English is like my third language. Now I need to

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pick up another something else on top of that. I don't think it's going to work, like, you know,

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getting my head, talking to myself into it and out of it every day all day. So once I was able to

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just, and it just didn't happen that I'm just like, oh, I could, all of a sudden, oh, I could do this.

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It was somebody else who actually saw it in me, you know? Just kind of like, I'm having a conversation

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with you right now, and I just told them, and I told them how I kind of like, build my own hacking skill,

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just working on myself. Like, I spent a lot of time building like a virtual machines, like different

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ones with, with exploitable system, and I would exploit them myself and just trying to like, kind of

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go back and forth and figure out, just understand how things work. So I started doing my own personal

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project, but even then, I still didn't think I was good enough because I just felt like I needed to

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start at five, and it's just way too late. Until I met this person, and I was talking to them, and

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they was like, you put it smart, you could do it. I don't know what they put in those words, but that

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did something to me, right? To that person, to tell me that I was smart. And then I was like, you know

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what? I could do this. Then I went back and like, find my, find a school and went back and just kind of

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took like, a cyber security program in a university.

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That's amazing. It's amazing how words from people can positively or negatively affect us and

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literally change the trajectory of our life. And I think that's a true testament to you and your

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mindset. It's really key when you enter and switch from field to field. Could you share some, maybe some

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insights on the shift that you had and how it's helped you thrive in a cyber security field? Because

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as you mentioned, you know, there was, it sounds like some imposter syndrome right out of the gate

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and wondering and questioning yourself, could I do this? Can I do this? How do I do this? Who's supporting

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me? Talk us through some of those shifts that you had to make in your own mind to thrive like you

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are right now at IBM. Right. The first thing I really got was really good advice because

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and I see that in a lot of like people like career change or you just even people that want to come

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into the industry. It's like we all, we tend to want to be open because we feel like if we are open,

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we have more options and sometimes I feel like that open the openness, it could be contradictory,

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right? Because I was the same way. I was like, you know what? I just need to get in, get me anywhere.

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And it took me forever to even get anybody to sit down with me and talk to me about anything.

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It wasn't until my mentor at that time just was like, you know what? You should specialize in the

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area and become really good at every single aspect of it. And that would be also easier for you to

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like to like to grab on into something versus just being open, right? And I felt like that helped a

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lot because you know hacking was my thing. So I just kind of started you know learning methodologies

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that are being used in companies to be able to like make this happen. What kind of tools are they

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using? But you know trying to see how I could better myself in whichever area. So once I would ever

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understand the methodology, the tools and just pretty much like the outcomes that needed to come in each

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aspect. And also very, what's very interesting is once I understood, there was another thing,

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when I understood my why, why I wanted to do this, that completely changed my life. That was a game

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changer for me actually. Because at the very beginning, it was like, oh, what are you on this?

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Also, they paid, they paid really good money, you know, very, I can just go in for the money, but

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I could make money anywhere as far as I was concerned. It wasn't until I was like, what do you want to do

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that? And I had to stand back. I'm like, yeah, that's true. But why am I working so hard to get in this

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industry? Once I understood why and it goes back to like, I've always been a person who wanted to like

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protect the good guy from the bad guy, go after the bad guy. And that just kind of fell naturally

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in that thing. And I was like, this is why, this is why because that would give me a lot of,

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that would give me like a lot of joy that I am saving good people against the bad guy. And once I

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understood that, that mindset shifting that we were being talking about, that's really when it happened

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for me. Once I understood what that was, my mindset changed. And then at this point with the

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with the tools that I had and the advice that I have from my mentor of like really focusing on

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an area, working, working hard to learn everything that need to be, that I could learn in the industry.

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And then get some hands-on experience. You don't have to wait for a company to hire you before you

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could start practicing and getting your experience. And I'm going to tell you one thing,

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while I was still in school, there's this small TV station that streams online. There was a TV

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station within the city where I lived in. And I would always go there to stream. And one day I just went

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and I was on the website. The website just looked, it was just strange, right? I was like, that was

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with my small education or like going into like taking these classes. So now I could see things

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differently than before. So I reached out to the, the website was just missing, it was just missing

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an SSL certificate, right? So I called, I called the company and I was like, hey, did you know that

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you don't have a certificate in this area and then people are filling out the form to get to you.

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That could be a security problem and thing. And I asked to speak, because it was a fairly small company,

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so I asked to speak to the manager of the company. And they allowed me to go in. So I went in,

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I was like, hey, I'm in school, I'm studying cyber security. I would be glad to, you know, to try to see,

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what you guys have in place and trying to help you in the air because I only find that they have one

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IT person. And nothing was, I mean, they, they was not security focused at all.

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Yes, yes. From somebody who would just learn you security too, I could see it straight up.

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So when they agreed to like work with me in like trying to help them kind of like create like a system,

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a system in place so that, so that the system could be more secure. I have no clue what I was about to do.

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I was like, oh, so I was like, oh, you want me to do it? Now, I don't, you know what I'm talking about.

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So, but I went back to my teacher at that time and I kind of explained to him and he was like, yes, you

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should, you should absolutely take it. And what he did at that moment was kind of just give me like a,

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he put him, I did most of the work as far as putting all the framework in place. And I just kind of like,

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I was the hand and, you know, and the body doing the activity, but he put him much help by putting all

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that together. So once I was able to do that and there was very happy. They gave me a recommendation later.

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So once I was there with that and I contacted the next, then I contacted a church, then I did it with a

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church, then I did it with another church. So I kind of like went out there and find my own

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experience like to build my own skills. And then of course, and my own home build the network. And

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like I was saying, like, uh, uh, uh, uh, download many different, um, machines and try to attack them

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and between to figure out just so I could get a hands-on experience, build my own network, secure it,

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and things like that. So that really, uh, helped me to that when I was able to like come in front of

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somebody for an interview. And, and by the way, IBM was like my very, the very first job I had as

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coming into the industry. Right? That's amazing. I love you. Use one of my favorite words, the M word,

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mentorship. It's such a big word that sometimes we find mentors, sometimes they find us. I feel like in

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my life so many of my pivot changes came from somebody saying something to me or somebody saying,

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hey, you're good at math, you should look at engineering. But you really followed through. And I think

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it's one thing to be mentored. And it's a whole nother thing to follow through, to listen to your

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mentor, to ask for their help. And for them to hold you through that process and having somebody that

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you can bounce things off of, like it sounded like you were able to say here, I have this thing, I need

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your help, here's what I'm thinking. They made suggestions to you and you went and then had the

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confidence to go do something, which says a lot about your personality and you were able to leverage

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them as a resource while you were building your own skills. And I love that because it's one thing to

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to have somebody give us advice. And, but it's a whole nother thing for somebody to take it back and say,

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okay, what's my why? Why am I doing this? How can I make this better? How can I learn? How can I help

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others? And you really took that directly to heart and made those changes. So for our listeners,

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what advice would you give them if they're contemplating a career change in

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decipher security or any other technical field, especially if they lack technical background,

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like what would you suggest to them? Well, the first thing I would say you could do it.

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Like believe in yourself, like that will take you a long way. Believe in yourself,

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do not listen to that, that little voice that will come. And trying to tell you other things,

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the second thing is, I mean, understand, I always say like, know your why, right? Sometimes we want to

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jump into things because it's the hard thing to do, right? It's training. It's what's going on.

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But then we find ourself in it and it's just kind of, you know, I could have done something else.

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Knowing why you want to do this will really give you not only the passion that you need to get

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this through. It will give you the conviction. And it will also allow you to be able to talk

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about yourself in a more convict, like you could be more convicting when you speak or when you

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try to sell yourself to even a company to hire you because you will be so solid within yourself

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that the skills, we could always learn the skills, right? A lot of time, I say, right now I'm working

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for this company. Like now if I go and I've been doing this for a while, and I leave and then go

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to another company, guess what? I would have to be trained over there or another system for other

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things. So the skills are always, you could always learn them. And just as the industry kind of just

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always moving forward, always stay up to date. Pretty much, I will always say focus on the area

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at the beginning. I'm not saying that this is if you starting here, if I'm starting as a hacker,

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this is where I'm staying, but focus on a particular skill set that that would really be that you

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could be able to sell yourself on. And that would make it a lot easier to get into the industry.

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For example, when I was, let's say applying for jobs at the beginning, it would just like whatever

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job I put out so many resumé, so many resumé and nothing was almost coming back at me. And then when

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I had to, when I died back and I was like, you know what? I don't want to do just anything in

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cyber security. I know exactly what I want to do. Ethical hacking is my space. This is what I need.

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And then when I kind of just focused on that, every other resume that I put out there was coming back

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with a hit. Hey, we want to talk to you, right? If you know that I was brand new and I would just come

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in into the field. And by the time I actually got into a company, I had couple offers. And that,

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that flip just changed. It just wasn't any believe that, you know, the direction of like being, being

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an expert in a certain area versus like kind of just trying to like know, know everything and not

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master a particular thing could play against you if you're trying to get into the field, especially

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if you're coming to a, what from a place that would know technical background, right? Somebody who's

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been doing, who been having multiple technical skill, oh, I know network, I know this, I know that

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they probably would be a lot better for them to be open to the aspect, but especially with time

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constraint and you trying to make it, make it happen is to me, it is very, very important that you

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that you choose an area, a niche where you actually going to shine and learn everything that you

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need to learn, know your why, practice, practice, practice and practice and stay up to date with everything.

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I love it. Cecilia, you are such an inspiration. There's so many people in cyber security and as a

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woman in STEM myself, I am so happy to have you on the call today. You motivate me to re-look at my

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why for so many things and look at the mentors that have come into my life and how I can

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be a support and you mentioned ethical, have it be a good guy be one of the people that helps to move

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communities forward. I love this about you and it's your third language, English, unbelievable,

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your third language, your non-technical and you've done, you've been able to shatter all these

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ceilings and I just love your energy and I think one last question for you if I can,

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what are your future goals and aspirations in the cyber security field and what do you hope to

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achieve in years to come? Oh wow, my aspiration within the industry

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since working as a hacker and having to get into a company system in many different ways

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than companies who would like to and this also kind of touched back to like

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Kaga here in the beginning. Personal data is like a big deal to me, right? I feel like

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it is not giving enough attention especially with so many data breached that are going, that are going

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out out there and just how easy it is for people to collect people personal data and which is

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that information that nine times out of ten end up getting companies

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a breached so it is very, we've been on the internet for so long, a lot of us, the majority of us

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have been on the internet for so long, we have shared so many things online and it's just not about

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just what we share, what the third parties are sharing, what the data breaches are saying about us

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and everything is just all over the place and now attackers including myself understand the value

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of this information and we are actually not using that information to attack companies whether

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it's through phishings, whether it's through credential stuffing, whether it's through you know

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vishing over the phone like I remember when the MGM attack happened and somebody and I read a comment

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and somebody was like now who gonna give that information over the phone I say do not end on

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the estimate, a hacker with the right information you just cannot, that could be anybody so I'm very

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passionate about just bringing the education to the average person to the everyday users people

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that are on a computer, people that sit behind your organization, behind your network, a lot of

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time to authenticate most of us in a company, companies use a personal data so if that personal data

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is not protected outside of the workspace that could turn around and become an issue and I just

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kind of be like really doing a lot of research in this aspect so is it a way we can actually stop the

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attack from happening by kind of like reducing the information footprint of every single person

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that is within a company or is it just like I'm just to a process of trying to

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which I've learned a lot in this area and I also do a lot of, as also focus on open source

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intelligence and my job open source intelligence technique and social engineering and I know

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the places I go to get this information and why is this not becoming more of a priority because

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as as we go and we continue to see attacks I feel like it's going to come more and more and more

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from personal data and I believe it was verizon that one of the statistics say like 60% of bridges

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now happen because personal data and this is only going to grow at this point. Yep, I absolutely

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echo that. I think it's, you know, we talk a lot about AI but if we can't figure it out now

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with AI and in more advanced technologies we're in a big big challenge there. You know, I yet ask

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a lot about AI, should I allow chat GPT and all these things and I'm like, well, I mean it depends,

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it depends on the strategy but if you can't get it right in like in an on-prem environment

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it's going to be harder to get things more secure in the clouds so I know I want to be mindful of our

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time and I thank you so so much for being here. I love everything about you and I appreciate your time

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and I just feel like you keep shining girl, keep shining, keep meeting, keep sharing and I thank you

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so much for being on the podcast today and thanks for being here. No, thank you, thank you so much for

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having me and giving me this platform and opportunity to talk to you. You are very soon. Thank you.

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Thanks, have a good day.

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Good to see you too.

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You've been listening to the Executive Connect podcast. If you have questions or ideas on how to

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bring leadership to your next level, email us at ExecutiveConnectPodcast@gmail.com.

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And don't forget to subscribe so you can catch every new episode. Until next time.

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(upbeat music)

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(upbeat music)