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When grief storms its way through your life, some of your friendships shift.

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Some of them go radio silent.

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Some absolutely disintegrate and fall apart at the seams.

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It is a devastating byproduct of loss.

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It is a loss on top of loss.

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And at a time where you are already mourning so much, it is so painful and so

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distressing to grieve the friends and family and neighbors and co-workers that you

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thought would be there to support you.

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In this episode, I'm going to cover eight common reasons that grief,

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fractures, friendships and relationships.

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Why it is usually you or us, the grieving people who end up doing the work of

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teaching others how to show up for us.

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How you can start renegotiating relationships.

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So they honor both you and your grief and for supporters who are listening,

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what it actually looks like to be a good friend to someone who is grieving.

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[Music]

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Hi there, Grief Growers.

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I am so delighted to be here with you as always.

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If you've been growing alongside me in my work for a while, welcome back.

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And if you are new to me and my work, hello.

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My name is Shelby for Scythia.

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I am a grief coach, a three time author and the founder of Life after loss

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academy and online course and community that has helped dozens of grieving

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people stop feeling lost, stuck, broken and alone and start building lives that

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they genuinely love from the lives that lost forced them to live.

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This includes not only death related losses, but also non-death losses like divorce

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and breakup, major diagnosis and every other loss and life transition that

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changes the course of your life.

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Here on Grief Growers, we believe that grief is not something we get over.

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It is something that we grow with and alongside and that when we stop treating

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grief like a problem to be solved and start treating it like an invitation to live

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more deeply, we create meaningful lives that are rich with the memories we carry,

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the struggles that we faced and the precious awareness of what it is to be

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right here and right now.

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You are joining me on this episode.

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It is number 11 and what I am referring to as the supporting someone series.

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This is a series for supporting someone that you care about their major

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laws. There have been 10 episodes prior to this and they are all inspired by my

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new book. Of course, I'm here right now.

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Three actually helpful things to say to someone grieving through every supporting

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someone episode, through every episode of this series.

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You will learn something about being there for somebody you care about who is

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grieving, whether you are a friend, a family member, a coworker, a neighbor or

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a professional who supports grieving people as a part of your job.

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And today on the show, I want to talk about the absolute soapbox statement that I

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believe that every griever knows to be true and that is that grief changes your

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relationships.

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I'm going to be taking you through eight reasons why friendships and relationships

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often fall apart after loss.

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The language that I'm going to be using in this episode is more geared towards

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griever. So like, here's the eight reasons your friendships might be falling apart.

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But if you are a supporter, you will find this episode helpful as well.

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You may able to pinpoint like, ah, here's why I may be hesitant about supporting

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my grieving friend or here's why I might feel a little bit awkward or

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strained when it comes to supporting a grieving family member.

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So I encourage you to stick around and see if you see yourself in this episode.

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If you are a griever or a supporter, oftentimes we are grievers and supporters.

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At the same time, I guarantee you will identify or notice some of yourself

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somewhere in this episode.

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What I want to begin with is that if your friendships feel different after a

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loss, whether that is more distant, more strained, more surface level, more quiet,

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than they used to be, you are not imagining it and you are not alone.

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Something that I know in the depths of my soul to be true that I just mentioned is

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that grief inevitably changes you.

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But if you are grieving a devastating loss, you probably already knew that.

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The part that society does not talk about enough is that grief also inevitably

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changes your relationships with everyone else around you.

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Said another way and I've said this before on grief grower, grief never happens

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in a vacuum. Your loss doesn't just live inside you and your heart and your

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experience of your grief.

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It ripples out.

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It impacts every relationship in your orbit, whether your loss was a death,

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a divorce or a breakup, a diagnosis or the death of a dream.

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When grief storms its way through your life, some of your friendships shift,

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some of them go radio silent, some absolutely disintegrate and fall apart at the

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seams. It is a devastating byproduct of loss.

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It is a loss on top of loss.

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We talked about secondary losses on another episode of grief grower,

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the loss of friendships and relationships or the changing of friendships and

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relationships after a devastating loss is a secondary loss.

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Maybe the number one secondary loss that grievers grieve on top of or in

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addition to what I would call like the primary loss or like the big one, the one

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that society names.

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And at a time where you are already mourning so much, it is so painful and so

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distressing to grieve the friends and family and neighbors and co-workers that

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you thought would be there to support you.

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In this episode, I'm going to cover eight common reasons that grief fractures,

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friendships and relationships.

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Why it is usually you or us, the grieving people who end up doing the work of

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teaching others how to show up for us.

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How you can start renegotiating relationships.

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So they honor both you and your grief and for supporters who are listening,

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would it actually looks like to be a good friend to someone who is grieving.

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So let's get into why friendships and relationships fracture after a

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loss and what we can do about it.

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The thing I want to say one more time before we get into the eight reasons is that

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grief doesn't just change you.

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It changes your relationships.

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Again, loss is not limited to the person, the relationship, the thing, the dream

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that you lost.

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Loss reorganizes how you see the world, how much you can tolerate, how much

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energy you have and what you need from the people around you.

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And your friends and family are not exempt from this devastating,

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griefy reorganization of your life, whether they're grieving the same person

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issue.

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So maybe you all lost a family member that you haven't common or whether they

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have never experienced a loss before, it can feel like the closeness or the ease

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of your friendship or relationship before loss has been turned upside down.

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Many grievers describe feeling like grief has moved their game piece like clear

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across the board from the people they care about.

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So they're way over here and their friends and family members are way over here.

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Other grieving people say that they feel like they are standing on one side of a

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vast chasm and they are screaming for help at the top of their lungs.

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Well, their friends and family on the other side's strain to hear them.

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They're trying very hard to be supportive or sadly, like move on and go ahead,

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go back to their normal lives without them.

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One of my students in life after loss academy, which is my online course and

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grief support community, painted a picture of being untethered or cut loose from

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everyone who is back on planet earth while she was sent a drift and floating in the

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endless void of outer space.

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This gap that keep talking about a gap between where grieving people wind up after

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loss and whether friends and family are located, whether that's emotionally,

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mentally or even spiritually, this is the place where a lot, a lot, a lot of

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friendships start to strain and even break.

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So let's get into the eight reasons that relationships tend to collapse or

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fall apart after loss.

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See if any of these resonate with you.

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Number one is that you have experienced a life changing loss and they haven't yet.

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After significant loss, the death of a parent, a spouse walking out on you,

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a diagnosis that rewrites your entire future, you carry an awareness of the

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world that other people in your life simply have not learned yet.

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You know in your body and soul that life is fragile and endings are real.

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And as I mentioned in a previous episode of grief grower about why it's

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impossible to go back to normal after a loss, anything can happen to anyone at

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any time for any reason or no reason at all.

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You know that now intimately to be true.

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Friends and family who have not been through something similar may still be

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operating from a place of assumed permanence.

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They may assume they still have time.

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They may assume that tomorrow is guaranteed.

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They may assume that nothing about the core structure of their lives will

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change.

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They may still believe things that you can't believe anymore.

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For example, the world is fair.

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God rewards the faithful.

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The good guys always win or everything happens for a reason just to name a few

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and that mismatch in lived experience and foundational beliefs about the world

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can make even loving and caring friends feel like they are speaking in a

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different language than you.

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Even if you are brave enough or courageous enough or extroverted enough to

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openly share about how grief has changed your view of the world,

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the people around you may accuse you of talking crazy or not having faith.

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Or being morbid or giving into cynicism or despair.

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And this is the perfect recipe for fractured relationships.

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It is literally you and the other person no longer seeing eye to eye.

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Number two is that your friends say hurtful things or they disappear because

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they don't know what to say.

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This is like so much of the entire basis of my book.

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Of course I'm here right now is about the words that we use to support and

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comfort each other in grief.

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And some people say really garbage things.

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Some friends and family will reach for platitudes and cliches like time

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heals all or what doesn't kill you makes you stronger or God needed another angel.

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Other people in your life express covert or overt judgment through phrases or

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words like aren't you over it yet or it's been a year.

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I think you need to see someone to help you move on.

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Still other people will try to fix you with the latest greatest self-help workshop

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or assume they know exactly how you feel or try to keep you busy and distracted

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or out of the house or ask awful and invasive questions about you and your loss.

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How did they die?

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How long has it been?

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Are you going to try for kids again?

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But but but but most often though friends and family and the people around us do

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something that most of my grieving clients and students say is the worst offence of

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all they go silent.

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They stop texting and calling.

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They quit inviting you to spend time together.

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They avoid mentioning your loss altogether often out of fear.

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Fear of saying the wrong thing, fear of making you cry or making your grief worse or

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fear of bringing up a subject that they do not have the emotional capacity to sit with.

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All of these garbage responses from cliches to silence.

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There's a big spectrum there.

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They come from the same root cause and that is most people are never taught how to

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support someone who is grieving.

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So your friends, family members, coworkers, neighbors, they are all fumbling their way

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through it or just avoiding it entirely.

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They are like putting that over there and not dealing with it at all.

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And this leaves you the grieving person feeling dismissed and abandoned in one of the

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most difficult seasons of your life.

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And that is truly heartbreaking.

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Number three is they expect you to be the person that you used to be.

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As I said already, you are not who you were before your loss.

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Loss inevitably alters you.

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This does not mean that you are broken or weak.

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It means that you have been changed by something enormous.

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But plenty of people in your life will keep reaching for or trying to access the

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version of you that existed before, whether that is the easygoing friend or the life

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of the party sibling or the reliable coworker.

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So when you do not slot back into that role, it creates tension or distance or

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unspoken disappointment on both sides of the relationship.

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I'll give you an example.

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After my mom died, my college girlfriend broke up with me in part because I was

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too sad. She could not handle the despair and heaviness that accompanied my grief and

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did not know how to cope with me, not being my former sunny, optimistic self.

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I felt her sort of emotionally trying to pull me to that place or trying to

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understand like why I was not that person anymore.

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And when I couldn't be that, that was one huge reason why we ended our relationship.

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A student inside my online community life after Loss Academy was emotionally

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pushed out of her church after her daughter died by suicide.

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Her congregation told her that her grief was too much and that she needed to take

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her feelings somewhere else.

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Another student that I worked with in life after Loss Academy named Julia shared

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that her workplace expected her to show up with like business as usual while

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managing a declining parents increasing care needs in a nursing home.

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They were dying in a nursing home during COVID lockdowns.

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She left that job shortly afterwards and found work somewhere that was more

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willing to be flexible around her griefs, emotional and logistical needs.

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Suffice it to say this, when you are not the friend, family member, coworker or

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neighbor that you used to be, people take notice sometimes a lot of notice

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and how they feel about the ways in which you have changed can cause friction in

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your relationship. Here's number four, society runs on an invisible grief clock.

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So in my third book, of course, I'm here right now, three actually helpful things

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to say to someone grieving.

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I write about a concept called the hidden grief clock.

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And this is the unspoken timeline that society holds grieving people to.

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This could be six weeks.

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This could be a year, whatever the socially acceptable window is for still being

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affected by your loss.

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Some of this gets reinforced by pop psychology as well.

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So things like the five stages of grief, which is a framework that was never

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designed to define how people grief yet it is regularly tossed around.

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I've seen it in TV shows, movies, sitcoms as a checklist that you're supposed

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to complete and order people even joke about like I'm only on the anchor stage,

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I'm only embarking, I'm still in denial.

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And when you are still grieving past whatever invisible deadline that a

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friend or family member or a coworker has in their head, they may start to look

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at you and wonder whether quietly or out loud, why you're still not over it yet.

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And that pressure can make it really hard to feel close to them or

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meaningfully talk about your loss with them.

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They are showing up with invisible or visible expectations of you.

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And you are expected to adhere to that hidden ticking grief clock.

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Reason number five that friendships and relationships fall apart after a major

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loss is one of my favorites because it gets talked about a lot, but in articles or

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like lists like these, a lot of people, I think, forget to mention it.

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And it is you look fine.

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So people assume you are fine.

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That's a very simple one.

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But like, oh, you're upright.

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You're standing.

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You're talking.

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You're making dinner.

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Like people assume you're fine because you are presenting as fine.

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You can be functioning and functioning well, showing up to work, cooking dinner,

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cracking a joke and still be in pain, genuine, griefy pain underneath all of it.

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When grief doesn't look the way that people around you expect it to,

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I'm thinking like stereotypical, like tears, visible distress withdrawal,

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even anger, your ability to like hold it all together or keep your shit together

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can be mistaken for being okay.

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Friends and family members stop checking in because you seem fine.

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Or your boss and coworkers add more things to your task list because you're

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seemingly on the outside doing all right.

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And while these people may not have cruel intentions towards you,

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the impact of their actions, this disregard of your grief,

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can feel ignorant and dismissive like they do not see because they don't

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or care about because they might not your grief.

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They don't know that they need to.

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Or the alternative of this is that they only support you when you are

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performing their expectations of what grief should look like.

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You're crying, you're on the floor, you're lashing out,

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you're talking about your person or you're withdrawing from other people.

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But something that I believe is that you should not have to be breaking down

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in tears 24/7.

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You should not have to be visibly grieving to other people.

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You should not have to be pretending or performing grief to receive care

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from other people.

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And yet that is how so much of society treats grief.

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Number six is grief comparison,

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aka the suffering Olympics creeps into your relationship.

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Sometimes the people around you confuse comparison with comfort.

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And this is what many people call the suffering Olympics.

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It was originally coined to describe how marginalized groups of people

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can get into the weeds of comparing the awful things that they faced historically.

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And it is a phrase suffering Olympics that essentially means one uping

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somebody else's pain with your own.

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So here's how it often shows up in life with grief.

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So say a friend responds to your loss by relating it to their own,

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saying something like, I totally get it.

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My grandma died last year too.

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Or at least you didn't lose a spouse in the war like my aunt did.

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Or you think that's bad.

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I went through a breakup, had to sell my house and lost both of my dogs all within one year.

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That's all comparison of grief.

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And while some grieving people, especially people who are neurodivergent,

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say that they appreciate hearing someone else's grief story in direct response

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to their own, most grieving people I encounter prefer to have their loss

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acknowledged first, even if the other person's story follows it,

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acknowledge your loss first, acknowledge my loss first.

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Even well-meaning comparisons can leave you feeling unseen like your specific

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loss got entered into a competition against your will or became a measuring stick

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against somebody else's story.

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This can make your relationship or your friendship feel less like a source of

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support and more part of my French, like a pissing contest where nobody really

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wins.

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Number seven reason why relationships often follow part in the wake of loss

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is that your capacity for socializing has changed.

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This is a huge one.

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Grief is effing exhausting.

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Small talk that used to be effortless might feel like run in a marathon now.

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Parties, happy hours, concerts, group chats that once brought life to your life

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might now feel really draining and even going to crowded restaurants or

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live sports, things that you used to enjoy can feel like too much for your

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grieving body to handle.

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This is not you suddenly becoming anti social.

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It is your nervous system conserving energy for the much bigger and constant

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task of grieving.

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But people who do not understand that shift will take your reduced capacity for

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socializing personally.

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I remember very strongly a student from life after loss academy who dreaded

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going to her company's holiday party after her son died.

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She did not have the energy to like work the room for hours and make small

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talk with her coworkers like she used to.

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And during one of our weekly coaching sessions, I suggested that she make a new

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grief honoring rule where she goes to the party, but only for 10 minutes.

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And she reported a few weeks later that she was able to stay at the party for 15

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minutes and felt proud of herself for making the effort, especially during

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and emotionally difficult season.

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The holidays are often so hard for people who are grieving.

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While this was a success for her, I know for sure that there are so many other

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friends, family and coworkers of grievers who struggle to cope with or

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understand their grieving person's new reduced capacity for what my wife calls

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people.

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And when your ability to be social is reduced, it understandably has an impact

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on your social life.

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Last one here, number eight.

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And this is not going to apply to everybody, but maybe it applies to you.

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And that is that shared loss does not equal shared grief.

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This is me talking about people who've experienced the loss of the same person

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or experiencing the same loss event.

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So for instance, apparent stuff or a corporate layoff or shared diagnosis in

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the family, but no two people grieve the same.

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And oftentimes two people, even if they have lost the same person or have gone

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through the same experience, they grieve completely differently.

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So for instance, a family member might find meaning or silver linings related

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to the loss faster than you are emotionally able to.

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You might want to talk about it constantly while a friend who also went

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through the same thing never wants to talk about it again.

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A coworker who also face the same loss might choose to join a therapeutic

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walking group that meets and walks together on the weekends while you would

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rather listen to a grief podcast alone on your commute.

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When these differences and grieving styles and preferences go unspoken,

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it is super easy for one person in the relationship to expect the other to

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grieve on the same timeline in the same way with the same conclusions or

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outcomes.

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And this can lead to a dynamic where you are always letting them down or they

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are always letting you down.

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And disappointment and resentment do not a healthy relationship make.

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Okay.

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So now we've covered the eight reasons that relationships often fracture,

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collapse fall apart after a devastating loss.

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Now I want to get to why it is usually you, the grieving person who has to

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teach others how to support you.

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It is for this reason.

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Most supporters do not lean in and ask you what you need first.

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This is for a ton of reasons, including a whole bunch that I just mentioned.

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So not knowing what to say, fear of making you feel worse, falling prey,

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to the grief clock consciously or unconsciously comparing losses and equating

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you looking fine with you being fine.

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There is also the familiar but very, very unhelpful phrase.

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Let me know if you need anything, which disguises itself as support,

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but isn't actually supportive because this phrase puts the burden of thinking

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of a task onto you, the griever and leaves your friend or family member available

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for anything, which is not a true or or fair reflection of their time or skills

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or their willingness to help.

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In addition to our individual relationship dynamics, and this is something kind

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of zooming out from the picture of your individual grief, we live in a

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capitalistic patriarchal and able to society that prioritizes that values that

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celebrates progress, strength, success and constant productivity over paying

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attention to those who are struggling or anyone who needs extra care.

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And at least in the United States and other Eurocentric cultures, we are not

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socialized. We literally are not raised or educated to pause and notice the

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suffering in the room with us.

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So it makes sense, then, that our workplaces, that are religious institutions,

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that our friend groups and even our families do not operate with that option

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as their first default response either.

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The bottom line is whatever they're reasoning.

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Most of your friends, family or coworkers will not initiate a conversation

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about supporting you through grief.

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They will wait for you to bring it up for you to explain it, for you to correct

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them for you to give them resources or for you to set a necessary boundary.

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This means this results in that the person with the least capacity, aka you,

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the griever, often ends up doing the most relationship labor, naming what

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hurts, asking for what you need, sharing educational articles and tools and

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teaching the people around you how to show up for you after a loss.

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That is very real and very hard labor and it is not fair that it falls on

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grievers by default.

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And yet that is the world that we live in right now.

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Here is how to start to make things different, how to start

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renegotiating your relationships after loss.

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Inside life after loss academy, the established module, the fourth one in my

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grief method, the grief ground release, integrate, establish and foster.

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So this is the fourth one.

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This is where we practice what I call doing grief with others because again,

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grief never happens in a vacuum.

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This is where I give you the scripts, the structure and the support to do

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grief with others instead of trying to guess at how to scaffold or support

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your relationships after a major loss in the course and community through a

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series of on-demand video lessons and journaling prompts.

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I will help you get clear on one, who is and is not a safe person to share your

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grief with.

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Two, which painful behaviors or words feel the most hurtful to you after loss,

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not just all these things hurt and here's why and blah, blah, blah, but

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like what are the exact behaviors that you really want to stop in your

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relationship?

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Number three, what you actually need from the people in your life, what would

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actually feel helpful to you because it's different for every grieving person.

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Number four, how to craft kind, but firm boundary scripts to ask for what you

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need. Number five, what to do when someone shows you that they cannot honor

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your grief and how to grieve the friends and family who fall away or the

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relationships that break in fracture or the jobs that you end up needing to

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leave. Number six, how to strengthen already supportive relationships so

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they become stronger and more supportive.

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And lastly, how to make new friends as a griever when you are ready to do so.

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This is my absolute favorite module to teach inside of life after loss

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academy because it is where you and every other griever inside the community

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00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,000
stop feeling like you have to cover up or put away your grief in order to have

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good and healthy relationships with the people around you.

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In the established module, you learn to create sturdy and vulnerable

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friendships that honor both you and your grief.

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And that in my opinion is what you deserve.

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No matter who or what you are grieving or how long it has been since your loss

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occurred. Here's the part of the episode that's for supporters.

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If you are supporting someone who is grieving, here's what I want you to take away.

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Here's how to show up. If you are listening to this as someone who cares

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about a grieving person, a friend, a family member, a coworker, a neighbor,

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00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,400
a professional who supports grievers as a part of your job, here is the short

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version of how to be the person who sticks around. Start the conversation first.

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Do not wait for them to bring it up.

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Say out loud that you know that things are different now and that you are

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00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,440
sticking around as they figure out life after loss.

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Here are three easy scripts to do that.

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I bet grief has changed a lot for you lately.

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I'm here for you. Of course, this loss has made insert thing here.

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Work concerts, romance, different.

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And three, I'm open to talking about how our relationship needs to expand to

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make room for grief. That's all you need to say to support someone who's

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grieving to start the conversation, to changing your friendship, to support

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00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,080
grief. Here are other ways to help that are crowdsourced from grievers inside

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life after loss academy and across all of my social media platforms,

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plus a few that are featured in my books.

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You could say, I don't know what to say, but I'm here instead of disappearing.

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00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,680
You could send a thinking of you text or a photo on major grief days,

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holidays, whenever the grieving person crosses your mind.

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You could offer a phone call or one-on-one time if group chats or large

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get-togethers are hella overwhelming.

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You could make a menu of your gifts so that your griever can choose the type

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of health they need from a list of what you are actually able and willing to do.

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Or you could extend gentle, low-pressure invitations that do not require a

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yes, and that you won't take personally if the answer is no.

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If you want the exact words to use while supporting somebody who is grieving,

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00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,720
again, whether you're a friend, a family member, a coworker, a neighbor,

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a professional, my book, of course, I'm here right now.

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00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,720
Three actually helpful things to say to someone grieving is the book for you.

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00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,040
It is a short and practical guide that is chock full of scripts for showing

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00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,720
up for someone in your life, no matter the kind of loss they're navigating.

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You can learn more and grab your copy in the show notes for this episode.

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And you can also access the entire free supporting someone series at that link as well.

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The thing I want you to take away from this episode today or that I hope you will

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take away from this episode today is that the best friendships are the ones that

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honor both you and your grief.

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Loss inevitably changes your relationships with every single person in your life.

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That is not a flaw in you or a sign that you're not strong enough or an indicator

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that you are getting grief wrong.

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It is simply what happens when an event, a huge life changing event like a death

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divorce diagnosis, other major transition permanently reshapes your life.

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What I, hmm, what I hope that you will remember is that the way that your relationships

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are today, the way they look right now is not how they will stay forever.

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Friendships can be renegotiated. Family dynamics can adjust company roles can shift.

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Needs can be spoken boundaries can be set.

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And especially when you are grieving, the people who are willing to learn and grow alongside

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you become over time and with consistent practice, some of the deepest and most meaningful

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relationships that you have.

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If you are ready to stop trying to figure out friendships and relationship after a loss on

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your own and start building relationships and friendships that actually honor your grief,

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I invite you to join me inside Life After Loss Academy where inside the established

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module, I will walk you through exactly how to do that step by step and you will get

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customized coaching from me for your unique losses.

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We can build scripts together.

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We can talk about boundaries together and we can talk about how to grieve the friends,

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family members, co-workers that maybe don't know how to show up for your grief in

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addition to figuring out how would you like if and when you're ready to explore making

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new friends after a devastating loss.

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If you are not sure if Life After Loss Academy is right for you, you can take my free

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one minute quiz to find out and you can also find a link to do that in the show notes.

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Griever or supporter, I am sending you so, so, so much care and compassion as you figure

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out where the hell grief belongs in your friendships.

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I guarantee you it is already there.

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Your invitation, your doorway, your mission, your project.

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However you choose to frame it is figuring out how to hold and honor it.

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I'll see you next time.

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That's all for this episode of Grief Grower.

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Thank you so very much for joining me today.

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If you're looking for grief support beyond the show, you can find free workshops, blog articles

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and my new book.

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Of course, I'm here right now, three actually helpful things to say to someone grieving at

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Shelby for Scythia.com/links. And if you'd like to get support from me for your uni-gloss experience,

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you can join me anytime and site Life After Loss Academy, my online course and grief support

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00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,800
community. As a student, I will walk you through my five step grief framework, GRI-EF,

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for rebuilding after any kind of loss and you can get live coaching from me every week

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to answer your questions. Replays of those sessions are always available if you can't

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attend life. It's just $33 a month to join or $22 a month if you are a marginalized or

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financially stressed griever and you get to pick the price that works best for you.

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If this podcast felt validating, comforting, educational or otherwise helpful to you in

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00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,920
your grief, please subscribe and leave a review. And be sure to share Grief Grower with a friend

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00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,280
because you never know what someone you love is going through.

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Grief Grower is hosted by me, Shelby for Scythia with The Music by Addy Goldstein. Until next

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time, Grief Grower's I See You. I am so incredibly proud of you in the work that you're doing

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in the world. And I love you because even through Grief, we are growing.

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