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Marsha Hart, the executive director of the Coos Bay History Museum, said of the project,

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"To me, the importance of this day is to recognize a past historical event in the context of the times,

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one that is shocking to imagine that it occurred in our community,

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and one that is part of a greater story about the unjust treatment of the Indian tribes

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and minority pioneers in our state."

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Hi Cassie! Hi Caitlyn! Hello creepy people!

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Hello!

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Hello!

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That's so funny I heard somebody talking about the "Hello!" from Mrs. Doubtfire the other day,

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and they couldn't do it. Oh, it was like from us? No!

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You didn't even say that up!

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Anyway, I guess we'll introduce ourselves.

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If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides,

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where we chat about true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.

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And we do a tarot reading at the end for deeper insight into this episode, so make sure you stick around if you're into that.

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Yeah, and hopefully you are, you should be.

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We're going coastal today.

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Ooh, yeah!

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I feel like you like to go coastal. You've gone coastal a couple of times.

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Yeah, I feel like coastal, maybe that's like kind of a thing for me.

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Sort of the beachy waves vibe.

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The salt and the sand in your hair and toes.

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I get it. I'm a crab. I live on the beach.

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True. True.

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And yet we've seen far less little segues off to the beach from you, I feel like.

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Yeah, I feel like have I done one? Is this a sign?

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Bandage man, sort of. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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How did you remember that?

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I don't know. I really don't.

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I couldn't tell you. I'm impressed.

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How does anyone remember anything? That's really the question, I think.

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I couldn't tell you.

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Well, any who, I'm going to get started.

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Who's Bay off the coast of Oregon State is the largest coastal city in the Southwestern coastal region with a population of approximately because this might be a slightly old statistic.

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16,615.

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Okay, that's the largest.

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Yes, in that region.

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That's a that big.

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No, it also boasts the third largest art museum in Oregon.

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Oh, that's cool. Yeah, I love going to the art museums at the beach.

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I feel like you have to do that at the beach.

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There's always an art museum around.

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I think so. Yeah, pretty much every time I go to the beach regardless of what little city that I end up in, there's kind of like a minimum.

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It's like a gallery, like a local gallery. You got to check that out.

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That in an antique store.

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Yes, yes.

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Historically known as Marshfield, the city was founded in 1853.

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It was named after the Massachusetts hometown of the city's founder, JC Talman.

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In 1944, the local residents voted to change the name to Coos Bay.

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Though the name Marshfield versus Coos Bay and other would be contenders remained a point of contention for a short time.

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Coos Bay would eventually stick.

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Marshfield doesn't sound like the beach.

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I'm sorry.

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Yeah, I mean, I guess it sounds more like a Marsh or a field.

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Yeah, little on the nose, I guess.

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Yeah, but you know, also, whose is just fun to say.

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It really is. It really is.

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The name Coos is said to be derived from a number of sources.

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In fact, even the city of Coos Bay, Oregon History website, says that the name is likely taken from one of the areas Native American tribes and has two Indian meanings,

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Lake and place of pines.

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However, a noted Malook or Malook is really hard to get an accurate pronunciation guide for that name specifically.

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However, a noted Malook language expert and tribal member has said that she believes its origin ties back to the Lewis and Clark expedition and the word for south in the coups language,

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which has two dialects, one of which is Malook.

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She also provides a simple pronunciation guide for many of the languages or dialects of the confederated tribes.

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So I'm inclined to go with her opinion.

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Pretty much anything she says, she's kind of the expert in the tribal languages and dialects.

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Yeah, I believe it.

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Though, notably, not for the word or name, Malook itself, but with a bit of digging, I think I may have stuck the landing.

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So I think it is Malook.

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I believe you.

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I hope I am correct.

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And also, if you're not, you really tried.

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I really did.

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And I think this next section, you're going to start to understand why it is so incredibly difficult.

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And I feel awful for even complaining because the root of the issue is just very sad.

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According to ethnologue, the coups language belongs to the Kuzn language family and is a dormant or still language of the United States, meaning that it shows no signs of digital support.

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The language is no longer used as a first language by any remaining members of the ethnic community and it is not known to be taught in schools.

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Oh, that's so sad.

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In addition to the previously mentioned pronunciation guide, I did, however, find an interview with Laura Hodgkis Metcalf dating back to 1953.

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There is a recording of the interview containing the 284 different Malook words she spoke during that session.

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She is remembered by co-kill tribal members as Lolly Metcalf.

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Lolly?

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That not the cutest.

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That is really cute.

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Her sister, Daisy Wasen Codding.

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That's cute too.

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Was not fluent but assisted with the creation of the historical record as well.

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Decades prior in the 1930s, Annie Minor Peterson was considered perhaps the last and best speaker of the language, producing two volumes of texts of both Hannes and Malook dialects of the Kuzn language.

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The confederated tribes of Kuz, Lower Amquah, Sayusla Indians as well as the co-kill Indian tribe called the Kuzbe region, their ancestral home.

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Despite the lengthy background provided regarding Kuzbe in indigenous history, that's not really what we're here to talk about today.

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I mean, not just that.

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Today we'll be talking about one man in particular.

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He too has little written as record of his existence.

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Ooh, ominous.

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Yes.

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Which seems odd for a person who lived in a particular place and at a point in history that now seems deeply and yet also darkly momentous.

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His life and death could have easily remained a tragedy almost entirely lost to history.

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Though some of the details of his life may remain unclear, the tragic death of Alonzo Tucker is in alarming, vivid, full focus in hindsight for those familiar with the story.

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Alonzo was born in Maryland and later moved to Sacramento, where he was a prized fighter.

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Before eventually coming to Coos County, only two years prior to his brutal murder.

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Holy shit, he was a prized fighter?

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He was.

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He fought for prizes.

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He was a boxer, you know.

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Well, that's crazy.

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Reporting on one of his fights in the Sacramento area touted it as the best ever seen in that section of California.

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So not just a prized fighter, but a pretty, pretty good one.

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Damn, I wonder how many prizes he won.

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I'm not sure.

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Another article by the Sacramento Bee described his arrest following a physical altercation, one that took place outside of the formal setting of a boxing ring.

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He had only become involved to stop the fight and was in fact found not guilty.

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This feels particularly remarkable when one considers that in this era, he would have faced an all-male jury of white men.

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So emphasis on men and whiteness.

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Wow, I never would have guessed that I thought you were going to say he was guilty for sure.

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Yeah.

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The justice system has been notoriously unkind, people of color throughout our nation's history.

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The only thing I can think of is like were all those guys like betting on him or something?

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Like, you know, it does kind of make you wonder, but I think that just the situation was just that it was clear he was just there trying to be, you know, a good smaritan.

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He was an innocent bystander.

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There must have been just like some super obvious evidence they couldn't figure out a way to make him guilty for.

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Yeah, I mean that or maybe they were good people.

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Yeah, I mean, there's on the outside chance.

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Right.

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Yeah, not likely.

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Yeah, and I don't know that this was a fight with a white person.

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So, you know, if you're not pitting, you know, two people of different racial backgrounds against each other, maybe they have less motive to unjustly convict him.

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Yeah, that was my thought, but the equal justice initiative based in Montgomery, Alabama has documented the brutal killing of nearly 6,500 African Americans between the years 1865 to 1950.

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Wow.

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It's less than 100 years.

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Alonzo Tucker is one of the more than 300 African-American victims killed in non-Southern states.

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This crime has the unique and tragic distinction of being the only documented case to occur in the state of Oregon.

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Oh.

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Language is important here because some sources do indicate that there were likely more both elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest and in the state of Oregon specifically, though some may not have been documented or formally reported.

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That makes sense.

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Yeah, I mean, I'm not going to argue with that for a minute.

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Yeah.

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Is that possible one?

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Yeah, I do think that probably the numbers are dramatically lower in Oregon, but maybe not for the reason that you think.

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Recordkeeping was far less consistent, as well as far more onerous when it was all recorded and maintained purely by pen and paper.

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And that's just one of many reasons why certain things may not have been documented throughout history.

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That's a very easy scapegoat.

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Yeah, I can't even write in a journal every day why would I want to document everything, you know?

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Well, especially when it doesn't look great.

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Oregon's historical relationship with the black community was at times, perhaps not quite so fraught as in many southern states at the turn of the 20th century.

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But it's important to note that in many Oregon communities, black people were sometimes tolerated, though never welcomed.

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I hate that statement.

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That's definitely a statement. There's not really any question about that in reviewing the historical record.

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The things that were recorded.

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Dr. Darryl Milner, who happens to be one of the foremost historians regarding African Americans in the new frontier of the western United States,

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sites a number of lynchings of black people, as well as that of Native Americans in the Oregon territory during the Civil War era.

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This assertion is additionally supported by Andy E. Jensen, the author of multiple books concerning the history of Kuz County.

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His book, Law on the Bay, Marshfield, Oregon, 1874 to 1944, points to a total of four black men potentially lynched in the state.

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Oh, wow. So there is like some kind of record.

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Maybe not an official record. Yeah.

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Yeah. There's definitely information available.

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Certainly not widely propagated or circulated, but it exists.

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Dr. Milner also cites multiple instances of pseudo lynchings or practice lynchings at the Clans height in the 1920s.

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What are they practicing on?

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I have more information about that and you're not going to like it.

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He states that those incidents for striking resemblance to an actual lynching, which is one of the more terrifying ideas occupying space rent free in my head literally ever and forever more.

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In such a case, the intended target would be identified, captured and secreted away to an isolated location before the lynching would be simulated in dramatic fashion, though stopping short of killing the individual.

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Often they would be driven out of tone by the promise of a real lynching in the future should they remain.

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That's part of the lynching record as well. Dr. Milner explains.

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What is so we're going to pretend to hang you.

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That is just crazy and grow. I mean, it's gross to do it anyway, but also to like make it a show.

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It's like entertainment. Real or pseudo lynches almost without exception in much of the United States treated as a form of entertainment for many.

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That's so gross.

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Oregon territory for these purposes consisting of Oregon, Washington and Idaho state as well as some parts of both Wyoming and Montana was engineered to be a racist white utopia.

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Those familiar with both the historical events and legal proceedings of the day can point to a number of tangible ways that white supremacy was quite literally built into the policies laws and very societal or cultural fabric of the area.

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Of course, to great detriment of multiple marginalized groups like the indigenous communities and African Americans.

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Don't believe me. Take the Oregon donation land act of 1850, which gave away 2.5 million acres of indigenous land for free to white settlers.

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1 320 acre parcel to each and every man willing to claim it at a time.

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If that man was married, the couple could claim up to 640 acres, provided that the man was and this is a quote.

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A white settler or occupant of the public lands, American half breed Indians included.

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Above the age of 18 years, being a citizen of the United States or having made a declaration according to law of his intention to become a citizen.

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They just given their shit away for free. They're not even trying to make money off of it.

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Probably most of us have some cursory awareness of this, but it didn't stop there.

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Next, black people were banned from living in the Oregon territory.

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In essence, this law criminalized being black while also happening to be in the state.

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Finally, to enforce the former, there was the lash law, which said black people would be publicly whipped up to 39 times every 6 months until they left the territory.

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Jesus.

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Yep.

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It was 6 months later that this would be amended to forced public labor as a punishment rather than the lashes.

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Oh my God, really? Quite generous. At the time.

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Yeah, thanks.

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Thanks for punishing me for being me.

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Oregon was the only state admitted to the union with a racially exclusionary clause in its constitution.

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That black exclusion law language was not removed from Oregon's constitution until 2002.

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Wait, what? No, that's fake. That's fake news.

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It's Caitlin.

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Despite continuous efforts by the black community to do so for almost a century.

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2002?

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There was also significant opposition in the 21st century from white Oregonians to take the language out.

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Of course there was.

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I'm not going to name any of the towns I'm thinking of right now.

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Uh huh.

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The 1900 census listed 36 African-American individuals as living in Kuz County.

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And let's just say they did not refer to them as African-Americans.

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Oh no. Did they use dirty words and laws or is this a law?

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Well, this is the census. Wow.

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By 1910, that number had dwindled to just 17.

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I wonder why?

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Because my next sentence says, "Gee, I wonder why?"

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Truthfully, it's surprising that even that many remained by that time.

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They were, after all, living in a state that from its very inception had designs on excluding them from its communities.

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And the events that we're going to talk about today make that abundantly clear if the language of our laws did not.

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Alonzo Tucker was said to be a hardworking and resourceful young married man at 28 years old.

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We already know that he had been a boxer, but he would go on to wear many hats when it came to making a living.

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He worked as a boot black, a male carrier, and was once even a small business owner when he opened his own gym.

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Wow. That's so cool.

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According to statements provided to newspaper The World, local Harry Walker spoke about much of what he recalled from the time that Alonzo Tucker was living in the area.

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In order to train for upcoming boxing matches, Alonzo was known to run several miles each day.

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And as always, he was also never one to miss out on an opportunity for extra income. Alonzo would carry mail between Marshfield and neighboring Libby on his runs.

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Harry and other witnesses believed that there was another well-known, but typically little discussed reason why Alonzo took this same route frequently.

215
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,000
Oh, Alonzo, no! Yes.

216
00:22:52,000 --> 00:23:04,000
Reportedly, Alonzo had been carrying on an affair with a white woman, reportedly named Lizzie Dennis, who was a local man or wife.

217
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:19,000
I'll just state that the name of this woman isn't totally clear in all of the source material, but that same name is used in multiple publications that I found.

218
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:32,000
And I think that's just because all we have to verify or back up most of the details of this case are decades old, eyewitness accounts.

219
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,000
But that was printed in the paper.

220
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,000
Okay.

221
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,000
There are newspaper articles about this case.

222
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,000
Wow. From way back when?

223
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:50,000
One day, the relationship either soured or was at risk of being discovered.

224
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,000
Many sources indicate the latter.

225
00:23:53,000 --> 00:24:06,000
In fact, a trio of witnesses dating back to that time stated in a 1974 interview that Tucker and Mrs. Dennis were spotted together by the town doctor.

226
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:17,000
In any case, rather than admit the truth of the situation, the woman, Alonzo's once former lover, became his accuser.

227
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:23,000
Of course, effectively sealing his horrific fate.

228
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:35,000
Her accusation that a black man had raped her near South Marshfield's seventh street bridge carried significant weight.

229
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A newspaper at the time wrote, she is highly esteemed for her pure womanhood.

230
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No.

231
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,000
Yeah.

232
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:53,000
The odds appeared to be very much against him in this case, unlike his previous judicial experience.

233
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,000
There was little reason to be optimistic about the outcome of a criminal trial.

234
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:08,000
But there is no official record of what happened since Alonzo Tucker never had a trial.

235
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:18,000
The co-kill city herald reported that Mrs. Ben Dennis of Libby, a woman it was said, was above reproach.

236
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,000
What does that mean?

237
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:37,000
When somebody says above reproach or beyond reproach, they're saying like your authority on the matter or the level of trustworthiness for you in this particular matter is without question.

238
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Oh, okay.

239
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:39,000
Yeah.

240
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:47,000
Very little power in any aspect of day to day life for a woman, even a white woman.

241
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:56,000
But in this case, her word certainly would trump anything in this horrific debacle.

242
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,000
I'll say it once more in just a case.

243
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,000
Okay.

244
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:14,000
The co-kill city herald reported that Mrs. Ben Dennis of Libby, a woman it said was above reproach, was dragged into some bushes and assaulted by Alonzo Tucker.

245
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:21,000
Laumann soon arrested Tucker who protested his innocence.

246
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Once the news spread, it didn't take long for a mob of gun-wielding white miners to march into downtown Marshfield.

247
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Their path was all too clear.

248
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,000
They were headed for the jail.

249
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Some accounts say that the marshal tried to sneak Tucker out of the jail to safety, but that the terrified suspect, at least according to the quote on quote, official story, broke away and disappeared.

250
00:26:50,000 --> 00:27:06,000
Based on accounts from that same trio of witnesses in 1974, it seems more likely that the jailer could not and was not likely very inclined to ensure Tucker's safety.

251
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,000
And so yeah, I'd probably run as well.

252
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:23,000
Yeah, but it doesn't sound like that's what actually happened because his jailer realized pretty quickly that he would be overwhelmed.

253
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
But there's a little bit more.

254
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:35,000
They noted that the man frequently referred to Alonzo Tucker using a popular derogatory slur of the day.

255
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:40,000
Just in passing conversation, referred to him in that way.

256
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So they were inclined to believe that he probably wasn't going to put much at risk to protect the person he was given as charge.

257
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Whatever one might be inclined to believe, the true course of events was that didn't stop the mob from barging into the city jail.

258
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:18,000
One detail was repeated throughout source material that one amongst the angry mob boldly proclaimed that they were going to administer southern justice to the alleged rapist.

259
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:24,000
On September 18th, 1902, they did.

260
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:32,000
The armed mob closed off the town and patrolled to ensure that escape would be all that impossible.

261
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:41,000
So Alonzo had hidden overnight, but he was found the following morning underneath a local storefront.

262
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Though he ran after being discovered, he was grievously wounded after being shot in the thigh.

263
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Cheese.

264
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:54,000
Reportedly having hit a major artery.

265
00:28:54,000 --> 00:29:05,000
According to one doctor at the time, the wound would have proved fatal in roughly 10 minutes, making his attempt to escape all that much more remarkable.

266
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He begged local bystanders for help, but his cries fell on deaf ears.

267
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:29,000
And there are a couple of different statements about what specifically his cries were and it was variations of Lord half mercy.

268
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Even when the dust settled, the jailer refused to identify anyone within the mob, though he had abandoned his charge mortally wounded to request the coroner's services.

269
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So I don't know what does that tell you?

270
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Wow.

271
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,000
So he just left him still alive and was like, oh, well, he's dead.

272
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,000
But I'm going to get someone to deal with that.

273
00:29:52,000 --> 00:30:03,000
Man, those thinking about the people on the street who he's asking for help, like what, honestly, what are they going to do against an angry mob as well?

274
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:13,000
Well, and he's already, you know, he's begging people inside the store that he had been hiding underneath and he'd run inside.

275
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:36,000
There was unfortunately very little that anybody could have done at this point if they had even been inclined to and none of the eyewitnesses who were children at the time indicated that anyone would have helped him.

276
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:51,000
And this next part is pretty horrific. They hung Alonzo Tucker already dead from multiple gunshot wounds from a bridge in Marshfield.

277
00:30:51,000 --> 00:31:01,000
Now, Kuzbe, he died before they could make it to the bridge, but they strung him up anyway.

278
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:07,000
As someone put a rope around Tucker's neck, hundreds were gathered.

279
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:15,000
They were determined to carry out the lynching at the very spot where the alleged crime had taken place.

280
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And though he died before they made it, they hung him from the bridge anyway as a public spectacle.

281
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:36,000
His body hung for hours in broad daylight on the old Marshfield bridge. Some people said days.

282
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:54,000
The ensuing investigation, if you can call it that, found that he died and this is a quote, from a wound inflicted by parties unknown and that no crime had been committed.

283
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:03,000
It wouldn't be until well over a hundred years later that the crime would be acknowledged in a more meaningful way.

284
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:18,000
Not only was an historical monument erected, but soil from the spots where Tucker was grabbed, shot and lynched, was poured into two glass jars.

285
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:34,000
As part of a project to commemorate America's lynchings, they are now displayed in both the Kuz history museum and the National Museum for Peace and Justice in Alabama.

286
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:42,000
It may have been that a crowd of two to three hundred gathered to watch as the gruesome crime took place.

287
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:52,000
But all these years later, there were easily double as many present to mourn, as well as commemorate a Lonzo Tucker's life.

288
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:59,000
Marsha Hart, the executive director of the Kuz history museum, said of the project.

289
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:07,000
To me, the importance of this day is to recognize a past historical event in the context of the times.

290
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:24,000
One that is shocking to imagine that it occurred in our community, and one that is part of a greater story about the unjust treatment of the Indian tribes and minority pioneers in our state.

291
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:38,000
I have a few statistics that are from actually a TED talk that I saw in person.

292
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:49,000
That's cool. And it was one of the individuals who helped to put the monument and the ceremony together.

293
00:33:49,000 --> 00:34:04,000
Oh, wow. Between 1910 and 1950, only 22% of the South's overall population were African-Americans.

294
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:12,000
But they accounted for over 75% of all executions in the region.

295
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:24,000
Two thirds of all executions in the United States were of African-Americans in the 1930s and in so-called modern times.

296
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:41,000
When African-Americans make up roughly 13% of the population, 41% of those residing on death row are African-Americans.

297
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:51,000
I have all of those written down from when I saw his TED talk, but I watched it again.

298
00:34:51,000 --> 00:35:00,000
There's a lot of really ugly aspects to our nation's history.

299
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:20,000
And I think particularly those of us in the Pacific Northwest, certainly would like to think that we are part of a more progressive community and generation.

300
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:40,000
But there are some things about this region, our state, specifically, historically that are really significant and that point to regardless of, you know, sort of the ideals that we have today.

301
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:53,000
There's pretty dark and horrific things about how this part of the country and our state in particular was founded.

302
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,000
I literally don't even know what to say.

303
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:06,000
I don't know. Nothing I say is like, not like it's not going to matter. I can't think of a word.

304
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:15,000
It doesn't feel like it's enough. Nothing really captures it.

305
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:27,000
I feel like I'm in a classroom, not that we really learned about what we kind of did go in death on this kind of thing in the classroom.

306
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:35,000
And I just feel like I'm back there learning for the first time what the fuck happened in this country.

307
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:47,000
I think in some ways, as I was researching, there are aspects of this that I think we were taught.

308
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:58,000
And then I think there are probably other areas of the country that receive,

309
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:07,000
and even more whitewashed version of these historical lessons.

310
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:21,000
But there's still quite a bit that unless you continue on and do graduate level studies or your own independent research,

311
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:31,000
these are not things necessarily that you will have learned about, not in a public school setting.

312
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:37,000
And it was like maybe one famous story in the South that we learned about.

313
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:48,000
I don't remember hearing a ton of numbers or stats or where this happened, other places, definitely not where I was living.

314
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,000
Right. Well, and that was sort of my point with this.

315
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:59,000
And it's not because I think we have to vilify our community as it exists today.

316
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:17,000
But I think for some of us that have grown up on the other side of the country, say from where the origins of a lot of the slave trade really where that hub

317
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:31,000
that we think of, you know, where that originates, our education, I think, focuses on a lot of othering.

318
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:45,000
And I think you nailed it because you do hear about, you know, maybe one, if you're lucky, a handful of cases that have occurred elsewhere in the country.

319
00:38:45,000 --> 00:39:00,000
But there is sort of this, even if it's never outright spoken, there is sort of a perception or, you know, this reflection that, right, but not here.

320
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,000
Yeah, exactly.

321
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:18,000
And I think as much as I don't, you know, I hope it's not representative of our state, our communities, of the ideals of anyone residing therein.

322
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:37,000
It's upsetting to learn that, you know, a lot of what we've built upon is very much not just as racist or just as harmful as murderous as, you know, whatever you want to say as, you know, some of the Southern states.

323
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:53,000
In a way, almost worse because we just, the exclusionary laws are just, and I've known about them in a more general sense for quite a few years.

324
00:39:53,000 --> 00:40:02,000
But my God, I mean, it's just so much worse than, than we were ever taught.

325
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:21,000
It feels a little bit like, even if you feel that you have done your best to be, you know, have an awareness and, you know, be open to learning and be open to the perspectives of, you know, people who have a different lived experience than you.

326
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:33,000
There's a little bit of a sense of betrayal because there's nothing that sets us apart or as being superior.

327
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:35,000
I mean, not at all.

328
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:45,000
No, I think the historical record shows that, you know, some pretty awful things happened here too.

329
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:52,000
And they got rid of the law and what you said, 2002. And we graduated in 2007.

330
00:40:52,000 --> 00:41:01,000
So like right around the time it got abolished or whatever was like when we would have been learning about it or like maybe a couple of years later.

331
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:02,000
Oh my God.

332
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,000
I mean, take this for perspective.

333
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,000
We had already experienced 9/11.

334
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,000
Yeah.

335
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:18,000
That's how recently, that's how recently that some of those things were changed.

336
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:19,000
Yeah.

337
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,000
Some of that language and codification.

338
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,000
That was the past. That was, that wasn't here in today's world.

339
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,000
This doesn't happen anymore.

340
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,000
Yeah.

341
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:54,000
And maybe you can make the argument that, okay, well, sure, you know, a lot of places have these extremely antiquated laws on the books that aren't really enforced anymore or, you know, obscure regulations that just don't really sync up with modern society.

342
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000
And so what does it matter?

343
00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:01,000
Like it's illegal to walk into bubble gum or some shit. Like there's random stuff like that.

344
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:02,000
This is not that.

345
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,000
This is not that.

346
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,000
One of these things is not like the other.

347
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,000
Yeah.

348
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:11,000
It's not like, like one of them is light and kind of silly like, okay, like that's illegal.

349
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,000
Yeah.

350
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,000
But the other one is like get it out of here.

351
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,000
Yeah.

352
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
But we kept that on the books.

353
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:33,000
They had to fight for it to be removed, which insinuates that there is perhaps a segment of the population that thinks we might still want to be able to use this.

354
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:37,000
Yeah.

355
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:41,000
And I mean, I don't, I definitely don't doubt that even now.

356
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,000
Right.

357
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:50,000
So just casually in the last, you know, two decades, that's finally been changed.

358
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:59,000
And that's, I mean, very comfortably, very firmly in our lifetimes.

359
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:05,000
I feel like that needs to be learned as part of history to like the present history, you know, that kind of silly.

360
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:25,000
No, I mean, it really, it really is remarkable how many things it has so much more impact in years after, you know, just it doesn't just go away.

361
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:26,000
Right.

362
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:32,000
I mean, that's the problem with systemic racism.

363
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,000
It doesn't just go away.

364
00:43:35,000 --> 00:43:40,000
We had one of the largest clan populations in the nation at one point.

365
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,000
I'm given to understand.

366
00:43:42,000 --> 00:44:01,000
I don't know if that's backed up by a lot of data or if that's largely anecdotal, but there are certainly members of the Portland police bureau and other government officials that have been photographed from

367
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:07,000
the last hundred years in their clans wear.

368
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,000
It's just so icky and gross.

369
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:20,000
I don't know how you can, I just don't know how you can look at another person like a human, like a living thing, like even a bug and want to squash it, you know.

370
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,000
I don't understand.

371
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,000
Yeah.

372
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:30,000
I just, listen, if you're a spider, I feel like that's a whole different ball of worms as it were.

373
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:33,000
But let's your man, then I'll take you outside.

374
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,000
Yeah.

375
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:41,000
Listen, we had a spider the other day that was hanging in the walkway, no less.

376
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:46,000
His web was like, oh my, and Chris goes, that's a really big one.

377
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:59,000
He was like, should I just knock it down and maybe it'll go like into the bark dust and I was like, you need to put him on a plane.

378
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,000
Send this to Australia.

379
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:05,000
It looks like that's where he's from.

380
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,000
Aw, he was enormous.

381
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:16,000
And he was one of those ones that has like the big, like, it's got like a big butt, but his legs are really long.

382
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:19,000
No, no, no, no.

383
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:23,000
I held a really big dead spider the other day.

384
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:29,000
Because my friends has been brought it up from the basement and he's like, look at this and it was huge, but it was dead.

385
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:30,000
I mean, it was squash.

386
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,000
It was dry.

387
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:32,000
That's not better.

388
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,000
And he was like, do you want to hold it?

389
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,000
And I was like, no, but I was like, no.

390
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:42,000
And then I was like, well, actually, yeah, let me just, it's just a dead spider body.

391
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:44,000
You couldn't even feel it in your hand.

392
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,000
It was just there.

393
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:48,000
No.

394
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,000
No.

395
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:54,000
And I went out and I returned him to the earth.

396
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,000
And I said, thank you for doing your spider duties.

397
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:02,000
You've done a great job living in the basement for who knows how long catching other bugs.

398
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
And I'm returning you to the earth.

399
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,000
I hate it so much.

400
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:14,000
It checks two different boxes, one of which is that like I have an aversion to touching like dead stuff.

401
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,000
And then an aversion to spite like I can't, I can't.

402
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:24,000
It is trying to hover in this chair.

403
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,000
I can't touch the floor.

404
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,000
It's lava covered in spiders.

405
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,000
Okay.

406
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,000
You can't touch the spider bodies.

407
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,000
Oh my god.

408
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,000
Oh my god.

409
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:37,000
Oh, yeah.

410
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,000
Okay.

411
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,000
I felt like we needed like just a little palette cleanser because that was hard.

412
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:42,000
Yeah, we did.

413
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,000
Are you done?

414
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,000
Is it over?

415
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:46,000
That's over.

416
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:47,000
Yeah.

417
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,000
I'm sorry.

418
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:57,000
And I know most of you know too the little like thing I do is just like because I don't understand.

419
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,000
It's things.

420
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:02,000
It doesn't make sense in my brain and all I can let out is a.

421
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:08,000
It's kind of like when the fan turns on on like your laptop.

422
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:13,000
She's processing like as fast and as hard as she can.

423
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,000
But that's her fan.

424
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
She can't quite get there.

425
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:20,000
It will never make sense.

426
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:21,000
And that's okay.

427
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:22,000
Yeah.

428
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,000
No, I mean, I think I'm okay with that.

429
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,000
That's as it should be.

430
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:25,000
Who?

431
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:26,000
Should we.

432
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,000
Tera?

433
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,000
Let's do some tarot.

434
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:29,000
Tarot.

435
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:37,000
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.

436
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,000
So stay tuned for the promo.

437
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,000
We've got to share with you this week.

438
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,500
Let's show them some love.

439
00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:51,000
You can find their info in our show notes.

440
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160
In the heart of the desert where dreams are made and fortunes are lost lies a city that

441
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,000
wears many faces.

442
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,480
But beneath the neon lights in dazzling facade of Las Vegas there exists a world shrouded

443
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:08,000
in shadows, a world of untold secrets, sins and survival.

444
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,000
Welcome to Sins of Survivors, a Las Vegas True Crime Podcast.

445
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:13,000
I'm your host Sean.

446
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000
And I'm your co-host, John.

447
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:20,000
Join us each week as we delve into the underbelly of this vibrant city, exploring its most unsettling

448
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:26,000
true crime stories where the stakes are high and the truth is often darker than fiction.

449
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,000
But this podcast goes beyond the crime scene tape.

450
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,320
We unravel the intricacies of domestic violence exposing the raw and haunting realities that echo

451
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:36,320
through the city's streets.

452
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,400
As a journey through the lives of survivors the strength it takes to overcome and the

453
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,480
sins that stain the neon skyline.

454
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:46,480
From the infamous strip to the quiet suburbs.

455
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,400
From the vast majave desert to the depths of Lake Mead.

456
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,560
We bring you tales that make you question everything you thought you knew about Sins City.

457
00:48:55,560 --> 00:49:01,040
Sins and survivors is available now on Spotify, Apple podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever

458
00:49:01,040 --> 00:49:03,000
you get your podcasts.

459
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:08,240
Subscribe now to uncover the stories that lurk behind the dazzling lights of Las Vegas because

460
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:31,440
in this city of illusions the truth is the darkest bed of all.

461
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,440
You guys were bad and don't worry we did get more wine.

462
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,440
Well of course.

463
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,440
Tearing it up.

464
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,720
Okay.

465
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:55,080
Should I lay these out and let you kind of tell my pointer finger where to stop?

466
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,440
I'll just control your hands from where I'm at with my mind.

467
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,440
Okay.

468
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:02,440
Cool.

469
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,440
They'll go where they need to go.

470
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:07,440
Interesting.

471
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,400
I kept seeing this one popping up in the bottom of the deck.

472
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,240
It is the Ten of Cups.

473
00:50:15,240 --> 00:50:17,840
It's in reverse.

474
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:21,760
Ten of Cups is the family one with the rainbow, right?

475
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:22,760
It is.

476
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:23,760
Yeah.

477
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:31,160
Keywords are comfort, happiness, domestic bliss, love and harmony.

478
00:50:31,160 --> 00:50:37,240
It's one of the cards that we've talked about several times before and in our interpretation

479
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:46,760
book it says you could think of this as the happy ever after card which just feels odd.

480
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,360
So I'm waiting for there to be something.

481
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:58,160
The reverse ten may point to disharmony or disappointments in your home life.

482
00:50:58,160 --> 00:50:59,160
Okay.

483
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:01,280
Well perhaps there we are.

484
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:05,200
As soon as you said it was reverse ten of Cups so I was like I know exactly where this

485
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:06,200
is going.

486
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:07,200
Damn it.

487
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,200
Wow.

488
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,320
Things haven't turned out the way you expected.

489
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:18,320
Sometimes it suggests a family that puts too much emphasis on stuff and not enough on

490
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:20,080
love.

491
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:28,320
In some cases this card may represent the loss of a home or children leaving home.

492
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:36,160
My guess is that if his wife was living in the area and they were rumored to have possibly

493
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,120
had two children.

494
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:39,920
Oh, interesting.

495
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:41,760
There's two kids on the card too.

496
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:42,760
Yeah.

497
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:43,760
Isn't there?

498
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,760
There.

499
00:51:44,760 --> 00:51:45,760
Yes.

500
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:52,720
I would venture a guess to say that probably shortly after this occurred they I'm sure they

501
00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:54,400
would have left town.

502
00:51:54,400 --> 00:52:00,600
I hope they got out and went somewhere where they were accepted.

503
00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:02,600
Yeah.

504
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:11,520
The family from what I understand did not live in Marshfield or Cusbe as it's known now

505
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,520
proper.

506
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:14,680
They lived in nearby Libby.

507
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:22,760
So maybe that's how they were able to hopefully escape.

508
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:29,240
In a reading about money the 10 reversed can mean having to scale down your expenditures

509
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:31,520
and lifestyle.

510
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:38,400
Sometimes it shows declining property values or squabbles over an inheritance.

511
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,200
Scaling down your lifestyle just like I just heard calm the fuck down.

512
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:43,200
Yeah.

513
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,200
You need to calm down.

514
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,200
You need to calm down.

515
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:49,200
You need to be into fucking loud and knowing carrots.

516
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,200
Really?

517
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:58,480
If the reading is about your job this card says you're not as secure as you'd like to be.

518
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:04,640
Problems within a company may threaten your position or a company may grow too fast

519
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:09,600
or overextend itself requiring you to work extra hard.

520
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:15,400
I mean, I suppose I could point to his small business.

521
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,080
He did seem to work really hard.

522
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:18,080
He did.

523
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:19,080
He did.

524
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:20,080
He did.

525
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:21,080
All those jobs.

526
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:22,080
Yeah.

527
00:53:22,080 --> 00:53:26,360
In a reading about love a partner may not share your values or may have different ideas

528
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,720
about family life.

529
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:36,680
Maybe you don't get along with the in-laws or kids from a former relationship cause problems.

530
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,800
Or a mistress.

531
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:40,800
Yeah.

532
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:43,840
I would say that certainly could lead to problems.

533
00:53:43,840 --> 00:53:46,280
I'm like, I don't see where love went wrong in this story.

534
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:47,280
What do you mean?

535
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:48,280
Yeah.

536
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:49,280
Yeah.

537
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:57,600
I mean, it's certainly not any sort of a justification for how things have played out

538
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,120
in this situation, but my God.

539
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,120
Yeah.

540
00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:06,640
I mean, I'm just certain there's no way he would have predicted that.

541
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:12,800
You know, what most people arguably would say is, you know, maybe not the most honorable

542
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:21,040
choice would have turned out quite so deadly, so horrifically.

543
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:27,040
And it's who knows what happened to, like if it was even true that they were having

544
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,040
an affair.

545
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:32,160
It's pretty well or it's pretty well documented.

546
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:44,160
Or like why?

547
00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:57,120
No, it could be anything or he could just could have done something wrong and he didn't deserve

548
00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,120
to die either way.

549
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:00,120
Right.

550
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Yeah.

551
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,120
I mean, it's so it's so hard to say like what occurs between two people, you know, when they,

552
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,640
at least believe to be, you know, in their own private space, it's, yeah, I mean, it would be

553
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:11,800
impossible to say, but it just makes me think of like all the women who have affairs with

554
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,560
men and power, like what are you going to do?

555
00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:17,040
Like who was more powerful in this situation?

556
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:18,040
It wasn't him.

557
00:55:18,040 --> 00:55:19,880
I mean, that's true.

558
00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:20,880
Yeah.

559
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:27,440
I mean, it's certainly, it's worth considering, you know, whether whatever the dealings were

560
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:34,640
in this relationship, presumed relationship, he certainly wasn't, you know, in a position

561
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:35,640
of power.

562
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:42,520
Also, this is like one of the rare cards that is like basically completely opposite in reverse

563
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:44,320
because that doesn't always happen.

564
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:45,320
That's very true.

565
00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:53,440
A lot of cards are like, I mean, just like a such a minuscule difference between the upright

566
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:54,440
and the reverse.

567
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:55,440
Yeah.

568
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:57,240
Look at you.

569
00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:02,880
She's just such a, she's such an astute little tarot witchy bitchy.

570
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:10,520
Yeah, and it just, it's, there's so much happiness on that card and just like a home and family.

571
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,680
And then it just like, it's just like flipped and all on a test.

572
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:21,040
I mean, if you think about it, that's really like very representative of, of what's happened

573
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:26,760
here because to everyone, yeah, really, I mean, not, not all the white people, but you know

574
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:27,760
what I mean.

575
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:28,760
Right.

576
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:29,760
Yeah.

577
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:34,520
Yeah.

578
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:40,440
If you love to listening to that Tara Read and you want to see it, if you want to see Cassie

579
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:45,800
hanging out in her bedroom alone and Caitlin hanging on her bedroom alone, then you can

580
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:51,640
be a common member of our Patreon or a video of every Tara Read is uploaded with the ad-free

581
00:56:51,640 --> 00:56:57,680
version of the episode every week, which is pretty cool because ads are, you know, they

582
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:59,000
kind of interrupt your flow.

583
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,160
They're sort of a bummer.

584
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,680
I don't mind them, but some people do.

585
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,520
Also, we hope I'm in my room alone.

586
00:57:05,520 --> 00:57:11,840
I'm reportedly allegedly alone, but I guess I have a couple of fur balls, but you get the

587
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:12,840
idea.

588
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:13,840
True.

589
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:14,840
Yeah.

590
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:15,840
Goose.

591
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:16,840
Boo.

592
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:17,840
Ah.

593
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:22,640
Patreon is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits.

594
00:57:22,640 --> 00:57:30,000
Which member of our Patreon gets a personalized welcome card, which is accompanied by their own

595
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,480
mini-Tero reading and shout out in an upcoming episode.

596
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,640
You'll also get exclusive bonus episodes and so much more.

597
00:57:40,640 --> 00:57:42,160
We post a lot.

598
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,160
We post pictures of shit we're doing.

599
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,120
We post videos of us unboxing fun things.

600
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:55,720
Yeah, which has actually become like kind of a regular phenomenon.

601
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:56,720
Yeah.

602
00:57:56,720 --> 00:57:57,720
So, no more gifts.

603
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:04,160
Periodically, we receive things, okay, whether it's advanced copies of books or presents

604
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:08,680
from our most precious of patrons.

605
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:13,880
If you cannot support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest way is to support

606
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:17,040
are in fact absolutely free.

607
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:22,480
We'll tell everyone and anyone that you come into contact with about us or leave us a

608
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,560
five star review on any platform you can.

609
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:32,360
However, if they are a dick, you don't have to feel obligated to tell them, I guess.

610
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:33,360
Yeah.

611
00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:36,120
And you know, me and Caitlyn really tell everyone about us.

612
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:39,240
So I feel like you all should be supporting us in that.

613
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,960
So we're not alone just talking to people about us.

614
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:42,960
Yeah.

615
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:48,640
And I'm pretty narcissistic to be us talking about us to other people, but if you guys do

616
00:58:48,640 --> 00:58:52,280
it, then it kind of seems more legit.

617
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:53,280
Yeah.

618
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,280
Totally.

619
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,520
Also, make sure to follow and subscribe on the platforms.

620
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:58,520
Do that.

621
00:58:58,520 --> 00:58:59,520
Please do that.

622
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,960
It'll let you know when we have new episodes.

623
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:06,720
If you have any true crime, paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener,

624
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:12,920
appreciation episodes, the creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com

625
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:19,280
or you can use our handy dandy Google contact link in the episode description.

626
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:24,760
Remember, you're always welcome to remain anonymous and your stories do not have to be from

627
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,480
the Pacific Northwest if you'd like to share.

628
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:32,880
We like a worldwide baby, preferably from a beach, apparently.

629
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:35,760
Sometimes follow us on all the socials.

630
00:59:35,760 --> 00:59:40,920
If you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards, our beautiful alter setups

631
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:48,400
and a lot of backstage shenanigans, which reminds me, I visited Ravens Manor after I talked

632
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:50,080
about it for the Krampus episode.

633
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:56,120
I know it's been a couple episodes now, but I went after season to see all the Krampus

634
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:01,200
drinks and decorations and the cookie and the child's doom.

635
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,160
It looks so magical.

636
01:00:03,160 --> 01:00:04,160
It was so fun.

637
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,120
So go watch my Tik Tok, reel, doohicky video I made for it.

638
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:10,120
I love a doohicky.

639
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:15,520
You can find our link tree, which also has our website (pnwhauntsandhomicides.com)  in the description of this episode

640
01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,760
to check out all the fun that we have to offer.

641
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:20,440
There is fun, aplenty.

642
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,920
Especially in this episode, just like tons of fun.

643
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:26,720
So much fun.

644
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:28,920
We are fun and serious.

645
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,160
We are a lot of things.

646
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:34,360
Have a creepy ass day.

647
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:35,360
The creepiest.

648
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:42,280
Did I just put chapstick on twice?

649
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:43,280
Maybe.

650
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:46,920
I mean, better twice than not at all.

651
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,920
Sometimes if I leave it in my hand, I can't remember if I actually put it on or not.

652
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:52,960
So I do it again.

653
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,960
You're so cute.

654
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:55,960
Thanks.

655
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:57,560
You're so cute and funny and smart.

656
01:00:57,560 --> 01:00:58,560
So are you.

657
01:00:58,560 --> 01:01:02,160
And you're just a little witchy as strong power.

658
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:04,680
I don't pay one.

659
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:07,040
Unless you use your powers for evil.