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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Told you he is, folks.

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It's so time.

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People pay good money to see this movie.

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When they go out to a theater, they

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want cold sewage, a hot pop plorn, and no monsters

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in the projection booth.

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Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.

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Let it off.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Hey, folks.

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Welcome to a special episode of the projection booth.

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I'm your host, Mike White.

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Last year we heard from Eric Heinz and Ed Ochoi

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all about the first look film festival

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from the museum of the moving image.

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And here we are again, to hear about the 2023 program.

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If you're in New York, you should really check this out.

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And regardless, I hope you enjoy the interview.

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It has been a year since we sat down and talked

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about the Mome first look festival.

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And I am so curious to have a catch up with you guys.

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And here are how things have been over the last year,

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how last year's festival was.

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And then talked to you about this year's

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and what we have to look forward to.

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So Ed Ochoi, what's been going on, sir?

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Well, last year's festival, I think, was a real success.

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And we're excited to be back this year.

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And really, really, I think proud of this slate.

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And the lineup of events that we have as part of working on it,

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I think it's going to be an exciting year.

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Our turnout last year was the best we've ever had.

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And coming off the pandemic, that was not quite what we expected.

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But it's certainly exciting to be in a position

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of thinking about it growing in terms of both audience

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and in terms of what we're doing.

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So how did this year's slate of films come together?

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Well, we start pretty early in terms of watching.

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And because we're year round venue

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and we do programming all year round for various purposes,

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both for monthly programming and also special series,

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things of that nature.

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And we both travel.

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I think we were starting with an eye towards programming.

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At least, it's for our back as can last year.

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And we have films from can.

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And it, you know, in a sense,

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have an eye on those things.

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And then start kind of setting out the feelers

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for the availability of films late summer.

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And then start doing some actual invitations in the fall.

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So yeah, it goes way back in that respect.

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And we're not ever opposed to films even further back.

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Ideally, we're looking at films from 2022 and 2023.

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And we don't have anything older than that.

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But even before can, I was at Millennium Docs

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in Gravity and Warsaw of early May or last year and came out

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with two films from that festival.

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So I being in March for used to be in January

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where a little bit more in play in terms of this season's films.

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And you'll see that in terms of where some films have come from

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in terms of 2023 films.

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But that's not necessarily how we think of things.

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We're really looking to kind of just,

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like, what is not shown in New York?

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What can we introduce to the New York audience?

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And what can we maybe sort of get behind as we sort of try to,

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you know, get behind films and still make or this stage?

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It's crazy to think of our purview being like that wide open

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in terms of an entire year.

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But it is even though our festival is really compact

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in terms of 18 features and then a dozen or so shorts.

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So other than the criteria of having that been shown in New York

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before, I mean, what makes the first look film for you guys?

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But we're always talking about that.

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And I think maybe we probably both have different angles on that.

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I mean, in a way that we should.

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Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, the notion of the title of the festival

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first look predates us.

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It was, you know, it was there from the very first year.

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But we've kind of run with that a little bit.

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And it being kind of obviously the first time showing in New York,

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but also like a first take on something, a way of making films

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or a way of approaching a genre that we haven't quite seen before.

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Or also it being kind of early in a film makers career,

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not necessarily, but it could be a part of what we're embracing.

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And then also as an Eddome mentioned, the working on it, element,

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which is the daytimes of the first three days of the festival,

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are all works and progress or discussions of the artistic process.

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And that's a first look, too.

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You know, you're really seeing it first, you know,

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often this is the first on the editing,

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that we're left the editing suite,

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and we're getting a chance to take a look at it.

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Yeah, I mean, that's kind of the guiding principle behind all of it.

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And I think that every film in the festival winds up being something

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that we consider in terms of the notion of how we might think of

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a first look and maybe I'm attracted to a particular film

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because I've ever quite seen it before.

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And then maybe sometimes Eddome is attracted to something because

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it is a fresh take on maybe it's more of classically told,

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but there's something new there.

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You know, or it's that it's the first time that a particular filmmaker

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or approach to filmmaking has been shown in a New York festival

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a long time.

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When you guys don't agree about something, how do you

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do you work it out?

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Is it knives?

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But that makes it.

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Wrestling?

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I think it's very appeasible.

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I mean, one way that we're different, I think,

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than other festivals.

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And I mean, obviously we're not a submissions festival,

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so we are very much it's curated in terms of things that we found over the course of the year.

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But we're not, we're not, it's not a conder, it's it's Eddome and myself and Sonya

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abstine.

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Those are our science and unscreen curator, but also

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we're sort of like going well beyond that in terms of films that she was considering and pushing

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forward this year.

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We're not voting.

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Obviously, we don't want to show or show a film that any one of us is really uncomfortable with.

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But there are films here that maybe one of us,

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Warner two of us has a real passion for.

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Right, and we go with that, you know, like I think there was moments that I want to go

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and down to particular films.

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But there are films that maybe one or of us maybe was not entirely sold on,

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but then the other one or two were basically like, but just these are reasons

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that have to be there. And that wins out. Like I'd rather have passion for a selection rather than

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there being kind of like somewhere down the middle.

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I agree, this is quite to your point about how we settled disputes or disagreements around

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a certain film. But I think it relates to what Eric was also saying earlier about how we judge

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whether a film is eligible for a year as fast as it will because there are films that might be,

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I mean, particularly with some short films I often find myself going a little bit further back in time.

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I'm interested not just in what's the latest, you know, fresh off the press's work,

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but also what is just vital work that represents a practice on going by an artist or a filmmaker

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in this moment who maybe is under shown in North America or in New York or East Coast or wherever,

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and who's worked deserves to be kind of shown in a context like this. And then put before

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in New York audience or the first time, that becomes a real factor in whether I think something is

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not worthy of inclusion. I don't want to put it that way, but something that I'm attracted to

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including and then, and that I want to put our full support behind.

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I mean, Edo does a experimental film programming, you're rowing an experimental film program that at O and

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back a keyding on staff work on it for this year's festival at O, put together two

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experimental programs. And as he sang, really has a mind for introducing an artist that, you know,

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as he said, maybe maybe it could go through two years old, but they haven't necessarily been presented

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in this context and they haven't necessarily presented a long side, some other filmmakers that

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maybe have new works that people are familiar with the filmmakers, but they're not

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so, like, with this other filmmaker. And that way of introducing films to particular audiences is

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something that I know he cares about. You guys have been going out and going to all these film festivals

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as you said, how is kind of the state of film festival these days? It sounds like you're going to

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more in-person things. Obviously, we had a time where there were no in-person things.

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You're a back-in person, now this is the second year, but how is the rest of the world,

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as far as you know, coming back from the pandemic? It sort of depends on the festival. There's some

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general trends that could speak to, but I don't know, I just got back from Berlin and I think his sense

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of Berlin this year to last is quite different. I mean, last year Berlin was in-person, but it was

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in-person in a kind of emergency way. The festival schedule was reduced for professionals who were

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confined to the first six days. There was mandatory masking and testing for members of press each

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morning and the theater seating was all very socially distanced, which means they actually had to

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like double the number of theaters they used for each press screening to fit a number of press into

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the into the house. And at the same time, the attendance was much, much lower because very few people

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actually were able to make it to the festival or found it useful to make it under such kind of Spartan conditions.

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So this year was a real change. I mean, it felt like I was experiencing Berlin for the first time

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in a lot of ways because last year was my first year going to that festival, but this year felt like a

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real addition. And it was reflected in the number of people, but also in the sense of excitement around

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the events. And of course, the evening gatherings and parties that would attend that, which

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none of which happened last year. And I do think that more or less international festivals are

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kind of back to where they were, or they're attempting to project that they're back to where they were,

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and they're attempting to get those audiences and professional communities back.

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And that's certainly the way that can approach things last year, where the idea behind that is that

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they're fully back. And yeah, I wouldn't say that it was back to the levels of attendance for 2019,

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say, but it was, yeah, I mean, it didn't feel like thread there. That's for sure.

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They're showing me a lot of money being spent on the festival and taking away from the festival. Whereas

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I've filmed a festival like Sundance, which we had two years of being fully online. And this year

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went hybrid. I was there on the ground. And there was definitely a, like a significant reduction in

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audience. And I'm very curious about how they're going to handle that going forward. They're going to

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remain hybrid or if they're going to shift more towards in person. But yeah, it's felt a little bit

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like they're just getting their legs back. Whereas another festival I can, seeing like they were back as a 2022.

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So, you know, and then I would say just that this would spend too long if I'm sure you have other

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questions. But in terms of some of the smaller regional festivals, I think that they bounce back a

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little bit more forcefully if the community like Camden and Maine or True Falls in Columbia,

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like it felt like those festivals were really kind of coming back to that because they're

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so community based. If the community is behind that festival, then then, you know, it can go back to

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to his proper state. So I'm the kind of a person that I don't watch previews. I just am fine

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going in blind to stuff. But not everybody is and definitely not at all of my listeners. So tell me

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some of the films that have really excited you. Of course, all of them are going to be great. But

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I'm curious as far as personally, what are the ones that are really exciting you for this year?

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For the first time ever we have three titles that appeared at Sundance. And so we're kind of the

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next stop for these songs. So I go up the night, film "Frame On" to my favorite film out of Sundance.

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And that was in the next section. And that kind of almost a classic 1980s-American independent film,

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but with the slant of being kind of told from a recent immigrants point of view, which is

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not necessarily where, like say, Jim Jarmeshum from 1983 would have, would have positioned things.

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And it's very self-consciously, I think, or consciously using some of that language, but to a different

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end and something more comedic and kind of putting immigrant communities in a story where they may

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normally be in the periphery, but they're actually quite central. And it's surprisingly very funny too.

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So that films are pretty crazy about. And then we basically have each night of the festival. We have a

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showcase screening where we kind of put an extra spotlight on a film and our big fear of the redstone.

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And so we have films like "Frame On" and then "Rodio", which was which permitted can and that's

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got a really scrappy genre thriller. Meetam means in decide-fly to some degree film that that I was

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sort of shocked was not a big or deal-out of canon. It actually opens the adchiggly right after it's

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screens of our festival. We're all about it. I've found called the Taste of Mango, which is, uh,

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Chloe Abraham's first feature that just premiered through fall. So we'll be the second stop for that film.

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And that's a personal film about her mother and grandmother from Sri Lanka. And then a film that

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premiered at "Rodor Dam" called "New Strings". I don't think we're the second stop for that film too.

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It's a New York film, sort of inspired by the pandemic, shot during the pandemic, but very,

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very, very funny for a standard death in the film. And then the closing I felt not me walked out,

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which is another Sundance film, which one cinematography prize. And that is an absolutely distinctive

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West African film that looks in place like a fable, but then also has some clear present day

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elements and overtures. So I'll stop there and let that out put a couple titles out there.

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And all those films are, I just want to add our crowd pleasers, which I think is really nice that

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it turned out this way. It's not that we try to get crowd pleasers or films that hit in a more,

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let's say, direct way for those slots. But it's nice that it kind of naturally turned out that way.

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And then in very different ways. I was going to say, yeah, the rate diverse among the five of them.

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Since Eric focused on the showcase films, I'll focus on some of the documentaries and an avant-garde films.

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I think one really quite important film that I'm very, very proud we're showing is a film from

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Senegal actually. It's kind of Senegalese and then kind of on official way a more

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Italian film by a Senegalese filmmaker named Alessandiago and sadly Alessand will be able to join us because his

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his visa was denied by the United States government. But the film documents a meeting of

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survivors and refugee is in Senegal from the late 80s, early 90s,

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mass expulsion of black moratanians that was undertaken by the Arab controlled government of more

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attenia. All these people were forced from their home country, their homeland and forced to migrate,

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or just physically ejected from the country and sent to Senegal. Under the cover of a border war

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that was at the same time ongoing between the two countries. But what it really was was an attempt

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by the Mauritian government at that time to technically cleanse the region of black moratanians,

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particular. It's an undercover story and not particularly visible story that the film addresses

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in a way that's not towards a western audience. It's towards the audience of people, those people

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affected by these events. And in next a kind of truth and reconciliation process, as we hear in this meeting

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of the different accounts of various survivors of this atrocity that was carried out. And it's

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very simple, very quiet, very derational film. And it's exactly the kind of documentary I like

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us to have at first look. Another film that I really love is one of the Sundance premieres that Eric mentioned.

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So Mike gave us a very hell on a Clark's Common Sequence which was in the new frontier section

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that Sundance, along with two other experimental features. And it's a difficult film to describe,

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but I think the best way to put it is that it's an essay film on a range of themes having to do with

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the extraction of information and knowledge from the natural world, either from animals or plants

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or crops or even extending to our own genetic information. And the way in which this knowledge then

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becomes exploitable for the purposes of commercial enterprise or military uses or other forms of

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the utilitarian and self-interested control, let's say. And the film explores this in a very

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compellingly lucid fashion through case studies in three different parts of the world. So one is a

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small town in small fishing village in Mexico and then another are the apple orchards in the northwest

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of America and then again on the Native American reservation lands in the Dakotas. And through these

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cases ultimately reaches some kind of relational framework that makes all of these spaces start to feel

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connected in an odd way that's not visible. And so for me what's powerful about this work is that it

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attempts through mostly direct observation and documentary format to depict things that actually we

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can't see. And I think that's a very brave and difficult thing for a movie to undertake.

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And I know you're more into some experimental stuff as well. Can you tell me a little bit about

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the experimental programs you put together? It was two short programs this year which we also did last year

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and the year before that. Programs are responses to what I felt was the most exciting work that I watched.

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And I as Eric mentioned earlier we don't have official public submissions process. So most of these

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films are films that I'm requesting to see of artists who are working artists that I'm

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familiar with or artists that I find through research of other theftable lineups or films that I've

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been lucky enough to see at other festivals. And so I think the themes of these two programs that

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have emerged are specifically related to me finding ways to respond to what the filmmakers were

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interested in. So in the case of the first program, they're all American films or rather North American

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films. There's a couple Canadian films. And they're all films they're reflecting on,

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let's say the American landscape in some way or other. Often in a humorous way sometimes in a

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slightly eerie or haunting way. And I felt that they all spoke to each other in ways they're surprising

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and contrasting. And I think that that's what makes a good program. This if it doesn't become too

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intellectual if it's just more like rhythmic or harmonic relational beats or disinances. And that's similar

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to the second program which is as it happens almost entirely non-American films. In fact, I think

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it's entirely non-American films which relate to each other in again these kind of more purely

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rhythmic or tonal ways. And I like to put things together that way because the ethic of it is not

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really to produce facet's linking a number of films. The ethicists try to create a composed experience

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that will actually excite and entertain and hopefully wow an audience. And I think these films

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do that. They're very, very beautiful. All of them. As you guys are going out to all these different

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festivals and seeing so many movies, then bringing home all of these for first look. I mean are you seeing

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themes? Are you seeing, you know, particular topics being brought up again and again. I mean,

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I know last year there was so much concentration on the Ukraine War which unfortunately I'm not seeing

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as much but of course Ukrainian filmmakers have other things other mind right now. But what are you

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seeing as far as out there in the world and then specifically, you know, I know Eric you mentioned that

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there's some real crowd pleasers this year and it's I wonder if we're kind of going back to like

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not necessarily the lighter and fluffier things because they're very challenging films but having some

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sort of hope for the future. It's not that we films from the Ukraine right now are

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are turning away from the war. There are many films that are actually doing with the current conflict.

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I think in very exciting and serious ways and we tried to actually, you know, Eric can speak to this.

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There were a number of films we were interested in programming, some we just didn't get. I think

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that those are, there are films out there and then last year I'll just say that, you know, we

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programmed that festival before the conflict began and so the films that spoke to the region and the

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political conditions in that region that have led to this conflict, we were just responding to what the artists

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were we're surfacing. Yeah and we do have two films this year from Ukraine or I would say

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one from Ukraine, one addressing the situation, one is a film shot just before or the years before

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this, this new era of the conflict called three women and that's set in a sort of western

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sort of remote area in the Carpathians that seems very far away from from that situation but it's actually

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really moving to kind of visit that space and that that space in the kind of moments before things

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really really changing everywhere for that country. And although short film which we're showing is part of

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opening night presentation called Away and that's from a Belarusian filmmaker of the Sloan

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sedatav and that set in Budapest where there are refugees from the conflict young people of the two

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main character or teenagers and they also spend time with very young children who are kind of working

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through their own, their own trauma, really fantastic observational film. The other major theme of the

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year that I'm seeing was that the question is somewhat telling of their being several years of the

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pandemic although it's probably also just the fact that some of these films take a long time to make and

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they're happened to be just coincidentally that they've arrived in 2023 and we have a representation

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of one of these which is the taste of mango which I mentioned before I Chloe Abrams which there are

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sort of first person you know, borderline home movies with young female protagonists addressing

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generations of either generations of trauma or generations of immigration and so I got just

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came from true false where there were basically three or four films in this mold there was the best taste

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mango there is a Junom which premiered at Sundance there's Millitha Sondo South African film that

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also premiered at Sundance there was hummingbirds and American Mexican American film that just

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where it it Berlin that they had and so there was really undeniable that that was a real theme I also

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loved that true false program to all of these films. Sometimes can happen at a festival is that

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they feel like they need to sort of cover their bases and they wind up kind of turning down fantastic films

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because maybe it's too similar to something else in their program. True false doesn't care about that

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and we don't care about that either is kind of how even though we had 18 features we wound up with

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four or five films that were you know either set in or by Ukrainian film you know

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said in Ukraine or by Ukrainian filmic or Lushia that wasn't that was what we were responding to what was

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powerful and in vital in that moment. So you know I will say just in terms of your question I

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wear things right festival live what festival was I do think that's we're seeing that and that's

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that's great you know it's whether it's coincidental or because of the era of the leaf kind of

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but also one last thing is the idea of any or idea of crowd pleasing might be a little bit different

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than other festivals that you have crowd pleasing there films that I think that we you know in terms

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of like artists of crowd pleasing is that I do think that there's a maybe a wider spectrum of our audience

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or New York audience that can find a way and to some of these films. Yeah they're not quite

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the same thing as what's going to be playing at the local collection as we can but we hope that's exactly

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why it's appealing to people. And Edu I know you mentioned that there was the Senegalese filmmaker

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who was unable to attend this year but can you tell me about some of the other filmmakers

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who will be in attendance? We're very lucky that actually several of the filmmakers are local this

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year so the Abrams lives between New York and London and is in New York right now so she'll be

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joining us with Taste of Mango and Mary Helen a Clark lives in New York so she'll be on hand for

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common sequence along with her co-director Mike Gibbister who will be flying in from Wisconsin and

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then the Newstrains team the co-directors are to misshaw and Prashanth Kamala Kahnth and they will be

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joining us both of them, Lidha New York so I'm very happy that that's worked out I also do want to

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mention that you'd asked about the persistent visions experimental shorts programs and we're very

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lucky for the first time to have for the first program every film represented by one of its filmmakers

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so the only filmmaker who will not be able to attend this Kevin Jerome ever send but every every filming

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including Kevin's film which is co-directed with Co-Drina Harald as part of their black fire project

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Co-Drina will be in attendance and all the other films will have their filmmakers with them so we're

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we're really pleased about that. Obviously each of the showcase films will have folks

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attending so about to Lali is actually coming in from London and Star and I hate to all these other

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also be there. Ruslan Fedatov who's been based in Hungary will be there for opening night

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the director of Radio Lover Quivoron will be joining us from France. So in on and on and on in

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fact there's most of the films have talent attending it's only a few really were were weren't able to

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get folks to come. I think then CJ Firey or Bassi the director of Lami Water will be coming from

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Nigeria. I think he's the one who's coming from the furthest distance. Evelino Rosinska is coming from Poland

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one of three filmmakers actually coming from Poland. So yeah we're doing we're doing well into

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the bringing folks and that's kind of like the one of our main priorities honestly is like any money that

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we have for this festival either that we raise or that we put aside for it we put towards bringing

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filmmakers in and putting them up because it's it's a festival that you know it's it's certainly not kind of

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well finance festival like us on there so it's right back or something like that but it is so therefore

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the entirety of its spirit really comes down to having people in the room and having filmmakers in the room

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with each other and that's one of the reasons why we started that work in progress series was because

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filmmakers wanted to be there and they wanted to be a part of it and they were just simply hanging

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around even after their films to watch each other's films or get a drink and so well okay well if you're

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going to be here and you're attentive to one another why don't you actually help each other out a little bit

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too and look at some cuts. So yeah the fact that we're bringing in so many folks is this great but

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that's always that's a strong preference because it all happens in our venue and because our audiences

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are used to having engaging with filmmakers and talking about process like I don't when I think

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about process a lot and I think as a result of the conversation we have with filmmakers once focusing a lot

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on process so I think that folks I think our audience feels like that these filmmakers are

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available to them you know that we have like more extended conversations after the films then

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a lot of festivals do and because they are staying local you know those conversations kind of

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spill out into the lobby and maybe kind of continue over the course of those days that's it's sort of

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I think kind of the appeal for filmmakers as well is that it's not the sort of place where you're

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getting shuttles from one place to the next and one venue to the next and one fancy party to the next

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thing or parties are pretty pretty much either in our building or at a local bar and you really get the

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chance to serve the part of the story of community while you're here. All right well once again the festival

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runs from March 15th to 19th 2023 in kishir listening to this in the future you can find out all of the

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available details over at moving image.us passes our available i imagine because that's the best way to go

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to festival is bypass going and enjoy so thank you so much eric and eto I look forward to talking

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to you guys again next year if not sooner thank you Mike thank you so much Mike

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