I'm not sure that I need to or want to or anyone really needs to read about like an
unremarkable high school student's unremarkable life.
She feels more like a less like a person and more like a feeling of depression.
I mean people were definitely actively farting at my dinner table.
Are you a high school student and you want a book that gives you no hope about your life
for your future?
Here you go.
I'm sorry, but nobody under the age of 22 needs Tom's for pizza.
Well, Sarah was homecoming queen.
And Sabrina was valedictorian.
So I guess take all these perspectives.
Hello everyone and welcome back to me in book club.
This week we read Prep by Curtis Sitonfeld.
Oh my god.
Curtis is back.
Curtis back again.
Is she here for the three Pete?
This is our first three Pete author ever.
Wow.
Congratulations.
Or whatever it means for you.
I got to tell you I told some co-workers that I was reading it and I explained the premise
of the podcast and they were like, you're just reading a lot of this person's books and
giving them a lot of support.
Look, I feel like I have different feelings about this than I did in the other books.
Like very different feelings I would say, but it is interesting.
There are a lot of there are other authors we could have done three books of.
I still I think it's a compliment.
Definitely.
I don't know.
I feel like it's actually a personal attack at this point.
I would be.
I'd like to hear from Curtis anyway.
As always, we are mean book club.
We read New York Times bestsellers that you take, you know, should they be?
I'm one of your hosts Sarah Burton.
I'm one of your hosts, John is Graybess.
I'm one of your hosts Sabrina B. Jordan.
I felt that it just felt like you were just mocking me both of you.
I was actually trying to be in sync with you so that our friendship would grow even more.
You would be like, we're just the same.
We're the same person.
Did you learn that from this book?
Okay, okay, yeah, okay.
I read that right.
We're not joined by Clara yet, but she is going to join us in a little bit and she did do the
outline.
So in a way, you're going to hear her voice through us.
Yes, that's it.
That's a good way to put it.
We'll see what she did or did not do too.
Which you now, I'll see.
When she sent me the outline, I don't know if this happened to all of you, but Google
really wants me to report her email spam.
Oh, I made it do.
I did it that too.
I thought that was odd.
I was like, isn't this someone I've emailed with many a time?
Wait, that's really weird.
What's the thing?
Google know that we don't.
I don't know.
For all of us to have it be marked as spam, something's up.
What's she getting red banner?
All right.
Yeah.
And speaking of which, I do already see some things that are missing from this outline,
but we also should mention she's been sick all week.
But it's all right.
We got it where we roll with the punches and that was a punch.
And I'm going to tell you guys who recommended this book because we listened to you guys for
this.
And this one came from our patron, Saraj Gorka.
Oh, good.
I'm going to butcher it.
I'm so sorry.
Saraj Gorkanti.
How about Saraj?
Did I do the job?
Saraj.
With of just initial or just the first thing.
I don't know.
I felt like the first name was hard too.
So might as well just go all in.
Okay.
Saraj.
Okay.
Saraj.
And this is what he wrote.
He said, Hey, my name is Saraj.
Long time listener, first time patron.
And I have loved hearing.
You all read books that I either hate or love, hate to love or love to hate.
You've helped me get through this last year.
Ish of my PhD in biology.
Humbul brag.
Every time I think about the books that you should read.
And boy, do I have a doozy?
Please read, prep by Curtis Sitonfeld, one of your faves.
I confirmed New York Times of a seller, number 11 in a hardcover fiction.
Thank you.
About a girl from the Midwest going to an elite boarding prep school in the Northeast
with some of the craziest names students you'll ever come across.
I ended up reading this book this summer before I went to my boarding school and thought,
is this what life is going to be like in high school?
Yikes.
And it was surprisingly, it had many similarities.
But let me know what you think and if you're down to play a little game, I can send along
some names of people I went to prep school with and you can decide if they're really not.
Can't wait to listen.
We really messed up.
We did it.
No, no.
Let's do it for the Patreon.
Let's get in touch.
We'll get in touch and on Patreon or we can add to the end of the episode.
We'll see.
Okay.
She's going to email Blake right now, so we don't forget about it.
She says, "Can't wait to continue listening and for the grand return of Sabrina my optimistic
queer icon."
Oh!
Okay.
Oh my God.
I think Sabrina's got enough praise this season.
Okay.
You want to start editing that?
I am sick of the emails and the little comments on the five star reviews that are like,
"By the way, like, have Miss Sabrina, but I'm sure she's just becoming a more optimistic,
powerful icon in Queen."
Yes, Queen.
We can't hear her voice, but we love her more for it.
It's like, some of us are recording the podcast.
We would love compliments, too.
Wow.
Maybe you'd like to hear a little bit less what they said.
I'm just doing a sweet question.
Because I know there are.
You would, based on your comments about me.
Look, all right.
You know what?
I guess we have to tease them with the faves.
I don't know what to say.
So how did you guys read this book?
I did read it.
Well, I'll be honest.
Sarah bought us all on both subscriptions.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
That sounds like I was treating you.
It was with, from our patron, we're finally utilizing what our patrons have been donating.
Yeah.
Yeah, just so you all know, we've just let it build up in an account and didn't really
understand how to spend it.
Now we are reinvesting you.
Wait a second.
Maybe we should use this to purchase the books that we're reading for the podcast.
Yeah.
No, it has been legitimately such a game changer.
The ease, just to, I click a button and the book is ready for me to listen to.
So yes, I listened to it kind of at a relaxed pace.
It was really a great experience.
I mean, nothing about the book, but the relaxed pace.
Yeah, then, yeah, okay, okay, fair.
There was no rush.
Yeah, I guess I did do audibles as well, Sabrina.
So I did too, but I just want everyone to know what my journey was, which is Sarah did
benevolently give us these audibles subscriptions so that we could listen to them, but I still
requested the whole season of books at the library.
I did too.
Just in case, I could get them for free in time.
And I was number two on the waiting list for this book.
And I was like, okay, got a hold out, got a hold out.
And then I kind of looked at the length of the book.
And I was like, I should stop holding out and I caved, but I didn't, I don't know.
It was, it was a very trying experience because audibles not cheap.
Like you have the subscription, you pay $15 a month and you get one book.
Yeah, you're pretty much, you'd like to use it for a book that you have to.
I had the same thing where I was so close in my library line for it.
And I was like, can almost, almost.
And I swear to God, the next day it was like, oh, now it's available and you're like, great.
Well, you know, fuck me.
My situation did pan out.
I bought it and I would not have received it in time.
Okay.
I'm happy.
So well, at least there's that.
At least there's that.
You guys know that I'm blackboard from the library right now because I have a couple
over-do books, one of which I do want to talk about it at the end of the cast.
Okay.
And then, you know, I'm going to have your over-do books.
All right.
Sure.
We'll put a pit in that.
All right.
It's time for Clara classes it up and I just scrolled down to see the summer she wrote and
boy, oh boy.
Okay guys.
That's our strategy.
Strap in.
Oh my God.
Should I assign parts?
Yeah.
I guess.
Okay.
I'll take, go every other word.
I was going to say I'll take the middle seven words.
Okay.
We're going to count and set.
Okay.
I think we should just go every other word.
Johnisera Sabrina.
Okay.
Sure.
I am.
Johnisera's okay.
Got it.
The summary of prep by Curtis Suttonfeld.
I actually added that.
That's not written.
So that doesn't count.
No.
Leave is middle class and go to boarding school and is obsessed with the
kids watching the dollar that that's and we have to hear her inner monologue for hours
and hours.
All right.
I feel like.
And Clara is going to hate that.
I'm just going to say one more time for.
Lee is a middle class.
Sorry.
I already fucked it up.
Lee is middle class and goes to boarding school and is obsessed with watching the popular kids
and we have to hear her inner monologue for hours and hours.
I think we can tell very clearly what she thought about it.
Uh huh.
I was, I mean, it is accurate in terms of especially the criticisms of this book.
I did think of it.
It's like, oh, because you think it's prep school, it's like prep school, which is usually
like juicy.
Like we, you know, you, you, whoo.
What's that going to be?
Who's, what's the sauciness?
What are these rich kids doing?
And it's like, no, what if, to me, it felt like it was like, oh, what if I wrote about prep
school from the perspective of the wallpaper?
Yeah.
And it was just, it felt like, Jesus Christ.
Like, yeah, I get you see everything, but like, it's wallpaper that's self hating too.
I guess self hating wallpaper.
Yeah.
Without a spark of personality, it's like white wallpaper.
It's like, why don't we just paint the wall white if we were just going to put up the white
wallpaper?
Yeah.
The other problem I think is that one of the best coming of age, uh, young adult books ever
written, I, in my opinion, is about boarding school and it's a separate piece.
If you guys, I'm sure you have to read it.
Oh, you're excited to throw in hold and call field, but no.
No, I mean, that's a good, that's a fine one.
But a separate piece like is among my favorite books to this day.
It's so engaging.
I don't remember what happens in that book.
I know I read it.
I mean, but what happens?
Jouncy is bone marrow.
And it causes finny to fall out of the tree because Jean's jealous of finny.
Is that what we're sure?
I don't.
I really don't remember what I, I can't believe you don't remember Jean joust the limb.
And it was every like 13 year old's introduction to the word joust.
No, I wasn't called field to help me.
I, I, that was more affecting probably because he cursed so much.
I sure.
And their prostitutes, it probably that one stuck with me more.
Um, can't, but, uh, anyway, okay.
So it's, yes, you're right.
It is, it is a, I mean, you could say it's a trope like it is, there's expectation set
when you're going to write about a prep school because you have, uh, yeah, there's, so let's,
let's, before we dive too deep into this, because we're, I know we're already chomping at
the bit.
Let's just go quick over author in the book.
Um, again, this, we've talked about the author a lot.
And, um, so I don't think we need to go too deep into her, but as a refresher, she's boarded
in 1975.
Um, we've done two of her books in the past, Rodham and Romantic comedy.
Uh, she went to Vassar and Stanford and MFA, Iowa as anybody who can write, you know, went
there, um, blah, blah, blah, blah.
It's John as jugs.
I got skipped.
You're right.
You're interrupting.
You know what?
Yeah.
Sure.
Go ahead.
Okay.
I'm going to give you two wrecks, okay?
Um, and both are going to be non-alcoholic because, uh, guess what?
Main character is not fun and she does not drink in high school.
No, don't drink in high school.
Um, so number one, drinks, appear with this book, Water, Cold Glass of Water.
Um, there is nothing like water to match up with the personality of this main character.
I, yeah.
Tastesless and boring.
I would say room temperature water.
Yeah.
And I would, the other thing I would change is that you're expecting to sip some sprite.
You're expecting something else when you take the sip, but then when you get is room temperature
water, that's what I would say.
Wow.
Yeah.
I will say room temperature water is the best like temperature for water, but, um,
so I'm a little confused there.
I, but cold is the best temperature for a water.
I, I, I, I, yeah.
I think they're, um, I, yeah.
Yeah, I think they're, I understand the disagreement.
I feel like ice cold sounds refreshing, but I do think room temperature is supposed to
be like the most healthy.
I actually thought ice cold was the most healthy because it burns the most calories.
No, I think that's room temperature.
No, it's ice cold that burns more calories, isn't it?
And is that why you like room temperature?
Because you think it's like a little naughty.
It's not as healthy.
Yeah.
You know, it's a little indulgent.
So my other recommendation while Sarah looks up this important factor in, she's right.
She's right.
Yeah.
She says drinking cold water requires your body to expand a small amount of energy to warm
it to your body's temperature, but the calorie bird is minimal.
Okay, I know whatever, but still, we're just trying to know.
We're just trying to know.
I did have a confused.
Sabrina and I are really worlds apart these days on our opinions.
Just, wow.
We never bridge the gap between us.
Yeah.
Anyway, my other drink pairing is a non-alcoholic.
If you're in the market, there's a lot of beers on the shelves these days that are NA.
And I tried one recently.
It was the Guinness 0.5.
Okay.
And it's just, it's a good one.
You know, if you're at work and you're like, I don't understand this at all.
I don't understand.
You're drinking at work.
I think occasionally it's nice to mix into the routine, especially if you're out at a bar
and you're like, I don't really, I want to have one perhaps to be social, but I'd like
to then have something in my hand.
I'm telling you.
But then have a delicious Coke.
I don't understand what we're doing with these fake non-alcoholic beverages.
It doesn't make sense to me.
I love a non-alcoholic beer.
Yeah.
What?
Yeah.
Actually, okay, wait, hear me out.
I love a non-alcoholic IPA because IPA was my favorite type of beer in terms of taste, but
it gave me crazy hangovers.
And so I had to cut it out of my life completely, but with non-alcoholics, I can have it.
Wow.
I just don't like beer enough without the bonus of feeling the alcohol.
Do you know what I'm saying?
I don't enjoy the taste of beer enough to be like, I want this without that makes sense.
That's how I--
It's kind of like decaf coffee.
If you don't like the taste of coffee, there's simply--
And Sarah can be--
And I don't.
I don't.
There's just a way to make me do that.
And I do drink decaf coffee.
So this is the set's up.
Decaf coffee, non-alcoholic-- sure.
And water.
It just goes to pair with this bucket.
Room temperature water.
Yeah.
Don't drink alcohol, just have something else.
I don't know.
But that's where we are.
That's where we are.
And I guess-- thank you for the--
No, no, thank you for putting in.
It was important.
I would have been upset if we met.
I did it for you.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
But anyway, back to Curtis, the big thing we want to point out
from Clara's notes is that she went to boarding school.
It's called, one more time, Groton.
What is it?
Groton?
Groton.
At Groton, I guess these are quotes from her.
I hate you guys are so poor you don't
know how to pronounce it.
I don't know that much about prep schools.
This is one thing I realized.
We're not-- I'm married to someone that went to boarding school.
Yeah, yeah, truly.
That's true.
My husband went to the opposite of boarding school, OK?
Groton, I personally went to--
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That was a 17,000-worth school in Pennsylvania.
[LAUGHTER]
I didn't know it had-- that's funny, OK.
At Groton, I had been preoccupied with differences
between me and my classmates, between boys and girls,
liberals and conservatives, loyalists,
to the feminist cause, and/or up and repentant boars.
As a half-catholic, half-Jewish girl from Ohio,
I myself, it's neither particularly mischievous
nor particularly preppy.
I had a few close friends and no boyfriend.
Likely or dispensed Saturday evening in the library,
reading the Paris Review, then attending a dance.
OK, so basically, she--
what-- and this is what I understand about her-- is, yes,
the book is based on a lot of her experiences,
but it's not autobiographical.
She was a little different then, Lee, because of her--
she wasn't a wallflower.
She started a feminist group called Group for Female Awareness.
She was a real pill.
She was kind of like a barist about the thing she did at that age,
I know, but there is--
she also was a columnist for the student paper.
She wrote about the school's flaws she wanted to fix,
but then a friend's mom sent it to the Washington Post,
and they published an excerpt from it,
but they took out all the good parts with her
complementing the prep school.
And so it was just like--
was basically all the bad things, and it was before she
graduated, which you guys will know is similar.
You can see the inspiration for what happens in the novel.
Wow, that's pretty crazy.
But yeah, and the other thing I know, for example,
the main character is Lee, Fiora.
And one of her reasons for naming it Lee
was because she's Curtis, and she was saying she wanted a name
that was like--
Is it a boy's--
Androgynous?
Androgynous, but maybe Lee's boy and is also Lee.
She wanted this girl, believe she's very simple,
so a simple name.
OK.
Yes, well-named.
You well-named.
You nailed it with that, Curtis.
Yeah, and we can talk-- we'll definitely
talk more of a name.
This book came out 12 years after she graduated.
It was her first book.
I know she spent like five years on it.
I listened to an interview.
I think with the BBC in her.
And I know she said she submitted it to 14 publishers
in "Oh, my God," and took it.
But the response she got was a lot of like,
I don't know how we'd market this.
It seems like it's for more for adults than teens.
I guess--
Because I was wondering, was she told to make it more interesting?
And I guess that wasn't the specific--
Yeah, I mean, I could see her getting the feedback,
like it's hard to market a book that doesn't have a plot.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, but it wasn't the feedback was for it, especially
like who's it for.
And this book, we're saying that, but it was--
it spent 13 weeks on the best-selling list.
You're did it come out.
Did you say it?
Yes, in 2019.
2019.
I looked at the book.
No, no, no, that's not right.
Really?
Sorry.
Yeah, it's--
No, because Meg read it in high school.
Yeah.
OK.
Boy did it make--
And I need you all to know that Meg was not a nice book.
2005.
OK.
That actually helps a lot.
For some reason, my audiobook--
It maybe was recorded in 2019, that probably.
OK.
And I was like, my jaw was on the floor
that this was something I was reading in 2019.
Over and over again, I was like, what the fuck?
It was written in 2005, but it's supposed to be set
in the early '90s.
Yes, yes.
It was some of the blatant racism--
Right, that felt like--
That felt like--
Yes, yes.
I agree.
I was like that key to--
Did that pop for you?
It popped.
2005.
It was still bad, but it just would have been shocking
to have been written six years ago.
That's all.
Yeah.
But she was pretty young.
She was in her 20s, so I don't know.
That usually pisses me off, but apparently she spent
like five years writing it, so good for her.
I, in my mind, Curtis--
we've read her so much--
was our age, and she's not.
So it feels OK to me that she has so many published books,
and I have none.
As long as the person is older than me,
they can have much success.
But she wasn't older than us when she had their success.
Yeah, but here's the thing.
In today's day and age, you can't just write a racist book
and get published, you know?
So you allow yourself more time because your mind's
going to be not racist, so I can have a couple more years.
It won't be racist, it won't be sexist.
Yeah, yeah.
And you need actually time to fix those things.
Well, well, she tried to do that all in her high school,
so in real life, so she didn't have to do it in the book.
OK, so let's--
let's dive into this book.
It is fully from Lee Fiora.
Like it starts-- she's her perspective.
It's four years of her at prep school starting with her,
I guess, like pretty much getting there to graduation,
although it is also written from the perspective of her,
like, is it 10 or 15 years later in the future?
That sounds right.
But I guess I get--
I'm a little-- I always-- that part confused me.
Did that part confuse you throughout or did you
like that, I guess, that kind of--
She would just occasionally throughout the book,
I suppose, say something like, she'd
be in the present telling you about this--
or you'd feel like you were presently with her at age 14.
And then she would add a line like, of course, years later,
looking back, I realized, blah, blah, blah.
And I guess I was fine with that.
But she did it so little, I guess, that it was a little--
you'd be taken out for a second.
It felt jarring to me.
And I think also because I initially was certain,
it was because something major was going to happen between it
starting then.
And I was like, it kept being like, oh, OK, what's the thing?
Because she kind of would-- it was like alluding to how things would change.
It kind of said vague things sometimes.
And I was like, oh, so something big is going to happen.
And she's setting the stage for what life was like before this big event.
And then it's that-- which-- it doesn't come to pass, one, two,
I don't think I think as an older person reflecting back,
she could have been, I think, even more insightful.
It felt like this person as an adult was still the same.
We can talk about character growth.
But I'm like--
Yeah.
I was their character growth in those four years.
But was there any character growth in the 10 years or 15 years from?
I couldn't tell.
I really fucking couldn't tell.
I felt like--
Sorry, I was going to say in the book,
she like-- in the older days, circles
backed so much to her high school crush of this guy named Cross.
And she'd be like, even when I was with other people later,
it never felt as natural as when I was with Cross.
And I was like, they're not together in the later part.
So it is troubling to me that she's still pining for that.
Yeah, I thought that was so-- there's some stuff like that.
Yeah, that was so weird that made me be like,
this is a character that not only in the first four years
doesn't change.
Because I just felt like I kept reading the book being like, OK,
when does it happen?
When does the book start?
Kind of.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
I mean, I have mixed feelings about it, to be honest,
because I actually think the author--
I'm not surprised at all that it was like a personal experience
for her that she was.
She was a boarding school student that a lot of the events
probably are destroyed.
OK, from the Midwest.
Yeah.
Because I felt like she actually captured
what it's like to be sort of dumb and 14
and think that you know everything.
And you really, really don't.
But at that age, you feel like you're like, I'm as smart
and I'm as adult as I'll ever be in my life.
I'm going to be just this way when I'm 30.
I'm going to be this way when I'm 40.
And it's like--
Yeah.
There's a lot I liked.
I thought--
I felt that way in my whole life.
Yeah.
Me too.
I thought--
I do think like her as a kid, her high school,
like the way she thought about things,
I definitely understood or sometimes.
And the dialogue was very, I feel, like, accurate for the age.
I think there was a lot of stuff that it was impressive.
I also just think-- and I hope we've talked about this before.
Just think Curtis.
Curtis had found it just like a good writer.
She is.
Yeah.
It definitely--
Yeah.
It flows--
It's like all of her books are well written in some degree,
but then there is something about it that is maddening,
which is like, in rotum.
It was like the constant circling back
to Bill Clinton's penis.
Yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
That's why I mean, it's so different than the issues with this book.
I mean--
We have this one.
It was like always needlessly identifying people by race,
and then making the character a stereotype of that race.
Yeah.
But like, I understand drawing that in a little bit
if the book was written in 2005, and it was set in the '90s.
But you have to be then a character that reflects back on it
from your current day.
And is able to say that was racist.
Not just leave it as an anecdote and be like, that was that.
The only black girl in the book, character at all,
is this girl named Little Washington.
And she's there on scholarship, and she gets kicked out
for stealing.
And I actually don't want to even repeat
some of the other stuff that came up about her
in terms of her description, because it's just as offensive
as you could imagine.
I would say--
Right, and even like she talks about a Jewish girl also,
not being it with that nose and name.
That's exactly the question.
And they get you students that are really smart,
but their parents are really hard on them,
and they don't speak good English.
And they try to kill themselves.
Yeah.
It is-- it is like stereotype after stereotype.
But in a way, I'm like--
Yeah, and I guess I'm like, this is her perspective.
I don't know.
But the adult needs to look back and say,
right, I can't believe how wrong I was.
Otherwise--
That's why it's crazy to me.
I feel like I'd forgive it a lot more
without that adult part of it, because I would be like,
where this is just like slice--
it's not slice a life, because it's obviously
fucking four years.
But I would introduce it and not do the work of that reflection.
Just-- it seems bonkers to me.
It's bonkers.
Also, I guess I'm not sure that I need to or want to or anyone
really needs to read about an unremarkable high school
students unremarkable life.
This can't go as--
I don't think parts of her were really real,
but I have to say, even as a high school student,
I would have found her deeply unlikable
because of how fake and like spineless and--
She's spineless.
And just like boring, she was.
The character to me didn't make sense from the beginning.
I mean, I think Lee is mostly consistent in her spinelessness.
But the concept starts out that she's like,
she campaigns to her parents to like go to this public school,
that she goes and like finds--
I don't-- I can't imagine doing this at 13th.
That's probably part of it.
To the boarding school, yeah.
To the boarding school and it's like finds and applies
and does all those things and then convinces
her parents to let her go and goes.
That's not the type of person--
like the person who does all those things
doesn't-- isn't in the rest of the book.
Do you know what I mean?
I would expect that person to be like, have a level of confidence,
or even if that is challenged at the prep school,
but is like is going to be active, is going to make choices
that are not just sitting back.
They are a person that does things.
But the entire time she just sits at her room.
She doesn't do anything.
She wonders about things.
She doesn't even study for school.
She's not even good at school.
And I mean, that was kind of sad because I guess
that to me that was more of like--
also, I was like, how is she even on scholarship still?
She's doing that.
Don't you have to keep like A's or something?
I didn't even understand that.
But yeah, it felt--
she's self-defeating.
She really dislikes herself.
And so she feels inferior, I guess,
once she gets there and so she just doesn't try.
And that it's hard to read that.
And read about someone who just doesn't try.
It's infuriating, in fact.
And I kept just thinking like, I'm sure all of us
had some degree of anxiety or like whatever
overthinking at that age.
But I was like, I just was nothing like her.
Sam.
So it's so hard for me.
Like I would like to meet this person in modern day
be like, well, you were like this in high school.
How did you turn out?
Like, you know what else?
I think is--
like you brought this up and I'm like obsessing over it now,
which is that she is looking back on this now as an adult,
but she never reflects.
And so there are a couple stories where
she is like a really, really bad friend to people.
Like does one or two things that are truly like so cruel
and un-rendered?
And kind of-- one is, for example, one of her first friends
is this really wealthy girl, which she decides
she'll make her friend because she realizes
Kinchita's wealthy.
So she's like, so I realize it's OK to be her friend.
Kinchita takes--
Even though she's a minority.
Yeah, even though--
Well, that--
I want to throw in a little nuance.
They were kind of friends before that her trepidation
was that she was going to be just like categorized
as a poor person with this other poor person.
And then she decided it was OK.
But she was rich.
Kinchita was rich.
I don't feel like--
I don't know that.
Yeah.
So then she knew she wouldn't be boxed in as a poor
with another poor once she realized Kinchita was rich.
But Kinchita takes her and Kinchita's
other best friend out for a day on the town in a limo.
They meet Kinchita's mom.
She takes them to dinner.
She's got a bodyguard.
Yeah.
And then on the limo ride home, Kinchita stays with her mom
so the two girls are in the limo together.
And they're like, should we room together next year?
And they're both like, yeah, let's do it.
And Kinchita had separately asked both of them.
So she had originally asked the other friend Martha
to be her roommate.
And Martha was like some excuse of like, I don't know.
I don't know if I can.
So then she asked Lee.
And Lee was like, oh, no, because you're poor.
And she didn't have another option.
But it was like--
They decide on this ride home.
After Kinchita does this really nice thing for them
to be roommates.
And they even are like, we could get a triple and include
Kinchita and they're like, nah.
And it's just left hanging like that.
And then we're supposed to move on and keep learning about Lee.
And I really, really could have used adult Lee,
looking back with the perspective.
Her look back is like, Martha became one of my best friends
ever.
I need you to look back and be like, what I did was really cool.
I did Kinchita was--
And she tells Kinchita is like, more--
like, it doesn't seem to have a remorse.
Doesn't even seem to get why Kinchita's upset.
It's just so weird.
It's so weird.
It is really weird.
And also, I didn't hate this aspect of the book,
but it was a little too convenient sometimes
where the story wasn't told completely linearly.
So we get this story of Lee being like, so yeah, me and Martha
are going to hang out together and then Kinchita is like,
you're a bad friend.
We're not friends anymore.
And Lee's like, I knew that was the end of our friendship.
And then, like, 10 minutes later, it's like,
I had actually talked Kinchita how to ride a bike earlier
that day, right before I told her I wasn't going
to be her friend anymore.
And it was like, this person--
she invested so much in you.
She was vulnerable enough in high school
to let you help her ride a bike for the first time ever.
And then you just like, throw her away.
And you're like, I knew that was our last conversation ever.
And she saw something so cold.
She's like, I looked at Kinchita and realized,
like, she was upset about this today, but by tomorrow,
this was going to be meaningless.
And it's like, to be honest, this is the kind of thing
that honestly would stick with you for a very long time,
if not forever.
And it fully did because at the very end,
you see Kinchita's the one who steps up and like,
tries to argue the opposite point that Lee had
in the New York Times article.
She's like one of the people that goes to that meeting.
And it is like, I disagree, and blah, blah.
And it felt like it was pointed, per to me.
But anyway, and oh my god, I guess I should say in the cover
of this book, it says something like it kind of--
actually, you know what, I should just look up.
What is the cover of this book?
Also, just while we're on the cover, judge a book by its cover.
Oh, yeah.
We haven't done it in so long.
OK, it is a good cover.
It is a good cover.
I don't get it.
Oh, you don't get it?
Oh, wow.
What, no.
Why is it a little different?
That belt doesn't speak to you?
OK, I'm looking at the cover now for the first time,
and I'll tell you what, I kind of get it.
Why would it speak to me?
OK, so is this--
Because of her reversible bed spread?
Oh, is it?
Wait, this is not the book cover I'm looking at.
OK, on the book cover, I see there's a belt,
and it's a belt that is clearly reversible.
It could be pink or lime green, and there's
like a scene in the book where they realize that Lee
realizes that people can tell she's poor because her bed
spread is reversible.
Which I don't even know what that means.
Was it school issued, or is that just what poor people had?
Because I'll tell you, I had a reversible bed spread.
In college.
Yeah, I guess it is just what poor people had.
I mean, I didn't have it, so I guess--
Yeah.
Sarah, did you have a floral bed spread?
Floral.
I don't think I had floral, no, but--
I don't.
That's spread.
Yeah, it wasn't reversible, certainly.
Mine was pink and orange from bedbath and beyond.
My crow fiber.
I wish I could remember anything about a bed spread I've ever
had prior to the one I currently have.
Not an important thing to me.
I don't know anything.
Why is it so hard to find the back of a book?
I'm sorry.
I didn't expect--
I thought I could like Google image--
I guess image search, and somebody would just
give me the back of their--
Well, you're searching.
I'll just say, like, I think, again,
being mean to your friends and doing things that are really,
really insanely cruel is like a great middle school
trope.
I think we probably all did it.
We probably all experienced it.
So this is-- it gets back to why I'm torn about this book,
because some of those moments are so real.
But it's also like, how can I root for this character?
She's wonderful, boring, and has no adult perspective
that makes any of this OK.
And she doesn't change.
I guess what I was just going to say is,
I feel like I read some small blurb about it
that inferred there was, like, until something happens,
that changes everything, like one of those, which isn't true,
which I think is only her--
the fact that in the story, she sits down
with the New York Times and talks a little too openly
about the school, and then people are mad at her.
But like, it just didn't--
like, nobody got that mad at her.
I don't know.
It wasn't--
and also, it's not like she had any social capital to lose.
So it wasn't even--
I don't even know why she cared about that.
She had no friends.
Who cares?
Anyway, I don't even know.
What are we-- what are we talking about?
There's so much in this book.
The names are funny, but I guess that's not necessarily bad.
It's like, these are prep school names.
It's like, rich people giving their--
Yeah, their names are gates.
That's a popular girl.
Her name is Gates, the boy that Lee loves,
his first name is Cross.
Cross, Sugarman.
Sugarman.
I love them one.
There's some girls that are--
I can't believe this isn't a movie.
I know.
I didn't say that it has been optioned at times.
What I haven't been--
Aspith.
That was the one I was trying to ask for.
Aspith.
What?
That reminds me of big little lies.
Laura Dern's child's name was like Amabel?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's like almost a name.
I'm like, I did this with it.
It just-- yeah, it's almost a name,
but suggests a speech impediment, which
is a tough road-to-ho as a child.
I guess I can't say that anymore, I don't know.
Is that an OK thing to say?
It doesn't feel OK.
It's a farming reference.
OK.
All right, that's fine.
You know, like, you hoe a row.
Yeah.
Great.
It's not like a tough hoe to slap.
Great.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Anyway, I feel like we needed medication.
It was crazy to me that she couldn't talk to anyone,
not even--
I mean, I guess not having an open relationship with your parents
is must have been part of the issue.
Like, she wanted to get away from them so bad,
but like--
Her parents sucked.
Oh, I was going to-- I thought they were fine.
I didn't even understand.
Her dad was a piece of shit.
He treated her--
I did not care for him.
Oh, I had no problem.
I felt bad for him.
I was like, no.
Yeah, you're right, your daughter is shit.
I mean, look, she sucked, but also teenager suck.
That's their job.
[LAUGHTER]
I got a 49-year-old man.
It is--
Which is so young.
I was like 39 and a 14.
Wow, you had kids.
But I mean, I understand his perspective of like,
he didn't want to send her to prep school.
He doesn't understand it.
He's spending--
like, they're saying her scholarship
was three-fourths of tuition.
So she's still spending a ton of money
to send her to that school.
Like, I'm sure it's a lot of money to her,
and then to be like, find out that, you know,
like, she's so embarrassed of him, but then later,
that she doesn't even like it.
It's like, what the fuck?
Why have I been like bending over backwards?
I probably had to like, remoragize the house.
I've been doing shit so that you can do this.
And it seems like you got nothing from it
that you in fact disliked it.
Like, what would I would be so infuriated with it?
And I guess that's even happy with a teenage girl.
But even still, it's like when she goes home to visit
and they go to pick up her little brother
from the skating rink, which she does,
because she's just like, oh, I want to spend more time with them
because I'm here.
And then he, like, he, you know, he called Shotgun
in a really shitty way, which when you say it out loud,
says the brother.
The brother.
But then the dad is like making so much fun of her
and is like, well, Lee, you can, when we get home,
you're free to sit in the car for 20 minutes in the front.
- This just sounds like stuff my family would say.
It was not at all.
I'm not saying I wouldn't have, there's a time at that age
where I also might have been really sad
about it or affected by it, but like, to me,
that is so normal.
Like, that comes out.
- But it's also, it's like, she's away at boarding school
so much of the time, which like is a, like,
it's a reasonable thing to want a better education.
Yes, she's squandering it.
But like, to not be nice to her when you see her.
- That's what she's 14.
- It's really cruel that the parents get there.
They have a bad interaction.
They were only gonna be there for 22 hours, by the way.
I get that you have other children,
but it's the first time they've ever visited the school
and they can't even stay one full day.
And then they have a bad interaction
and they leave immediately without saying goodbye.
They don't even come.
- That does happen.
- I actually, and it's, well, does this make me,
this happens and it's normal.
- No, no, no, no, I'm, yes,
but I guess I'm giving you my interpretation of it.
I actually, because found, I think the dad's reaction,
like, I understood it.
I think he should have stayed and still tried,
but like, I could see that happening.
I actually thought the mother, I was more disappointed
in the mother who didn't feel the same,
not for not standing up to the father and being like,
fine, you don't go, I'm staying
and I'm going.
That to me in that moment, I was shocked
that she just went along with that.
- I completely agree with that take.
And it's like, okay, I see where Lee gets it, I guess.
She's like this weak, spineless character.
It's like, so is the mom.
The mom is there to visit her daughter and her husband is like,
no, we're gonna leave now.
And she's just like, okay, honey, that's, sorry.
That she calls and is like, we're on our way home.
- At all, okay.
Even in the 90s, that is not like,
that's how, they drove all the way there.
It's, I don't know, it's crazy.
- I totally understand though,
those fights you would get in, especially with your dad
when you were a high schooler,
and you could be, high school girls can be so mean,
they can be so cruel, you're so embarrassed of your parents.
That all definitely rang true.
But you know what, didn't ring true,
her family dynamic at all with her family.
I believe that Curtis Sitonfeld went to a boarding school,
but I'm not sure she had a family because,
it just felt like it was just like,
we're at the dinner table being like, fart, you know,
how family are.
And you're just like, yeah.
- I've never been at a dinner table.
- Maybe she grew up in just like a really normal family
and she wanted a little bit of,
- I bet that's maybe true.
- Right, I mean, I,
yeah, we,
I mean, we were definitely actively farting at my dinner table.
- Yeah, but I would have, if you wrote about it,
if you wrote about it, I would feel the truth behind it.
- Yeah.
- I could feel the fakeness behind this.
- Yeah, it was vacant.
- There were, there were empty parts.
- We, a shit, no really.
- A really subjective, stomach distress, can I just say?
- Of course.
- No, a part of the, the book, the movie,
that I was like, what the fuck is this?
There is a scene which like, we haven't really talked much
about the actual plot, but the reason she gets obsessed
with this guy, Cross is because on surprise holiday,
one day she goes to the mall.
- Was that a thing at your school, by the way?
- Yeah, surprise hall, no, we didn't have that.
- Okay, go ahead.
- She's getting her ears pierced.
It goes awry, maybe she almost faints,
and then this like popular kid at school,
like saves her. - It was like a meek,
it was like, that was kind of stereotypical
in terms of the like, oh, I fainted
and now he's here to save me.
But then they like, okay, they get milkshakes together
and then he's like, oh, I gotta meet with my friends.
Like, do you wanna come?
Hawkeye schools never gonna do that for this loser,
but whatever.
And they do that.
And then afterwards they go out for pizza
and they get pepperoni pizza and then they're all like,
oh no, and like one of the teenage boys asks for Tom's,
and I'm sorry, but nobody under the age of 22
needs Tom's for pizza.
(laughing)
And that really, that really,
- And I'm so lucky.
- That, okay, I wasn't expecting you to go there.
I actually, from that story, I was like, okay, now she knows
by saying yes to things and going out and seeing people,
she's learning that like she can have great new experiences
and meet people.
And so after this, she will start acting differently
and then nope, she doesn't.
She just still doesn't go to the dances,
she still people say you wanna come over and hang out,
she goes, no.
- You know what the most, the same.
- Like classic example of the whole book is,
she leaves the school after this embarrassing
New York Times story and one of her friends is like,
you'll be okay, Lee, honestly, I think you're gonna be one
of those people who like really thrives in college
and like her perspective looking back is like,
I ended up not thriving in college,
sort of had the same problems I had in high school.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Okay, yeah, all right, well, good luck with everything
in life, I guess, Lee, yeah.
Also, okay, also at the very end,
goodness, I gotta try to remember what,
I think I wrote down, at the very end,
there seems like there's something that could be like,
not a transformation, but like something actually,
a realization for her, for the audience,
where she's confronting Cross because he's been ghosting her,
and he says something like, you know,
you've been, you've been, you're by yourself,
you're practicing her, you're practicing for stuff.
And she's like, what am I practicing for?
And she like, in that, I guess, moment as a kid doesn't know,
but then, and I'm not saying that the future person
should have answered it, but to me, it's like,
well, the obvious thing is becoming a writer,
like she is so observant, that's like the thing you can say
that she is so observant about all these things.
But then we hear like a flashes of like,
what everyone's doing and we, she just vaguely says like,
she just gets a job and then another job.
Like, and that's it.
And there's no like, I just thought it was crazy.
I was like, oh, so there's not even like,
you eventually figured out that there was a use to you
for that time.
You had a revelation at some point.
- It sort of like, that was the word I was looking for.
- Are you a high school student and you want a book
that gives you no hope about your life or your future?
Here you go.
I would never want a high school student to read this
'cause I would be so afraid for them to think this way.
Honestly, this book made me start thinking about like,
you know how people, I feel like criticize parents
of the 80s and 90s for like participation trophies.
I started to be like, no, no, no, no, that is the answer.
Because maybe if you don't do participation trophies
and you're like, you just, you don't let them have any
like feeling a positivity and self-worth,
they become this person who just like judges everything
and hates themselves and doesn't try in a self-defeating.
- You know, that's horrible.
- I agree.
- It is and she's also not funny.
The worst thing a person could be.
- Not fun.
- But it's like, I feel like you can follow a character
who kind of is all those things
if they have something else to hook you in.
Or they're sociopathic.
- They're funny.
- They're sociopath, they're hot like something.
- Something.
- Give me something.
- That's the whole point of Lee.
She was a whole big nothing.
That's literally what the book leaves you with.
I will say there was one little moment that I did here
and it actually like moved me even as an adult.
Like I was like, that's a good thing to remember.
And it was a person, adult,
prospectively looking back and saying like,
she never went to the dances.
And she, all the girls one day were like,
after the, instead of the dance,
they were all gonna go out to dinner
and they were like, we know you won't come Lee
'cause you never come.
And she was like, at that time in my life,
I thought that in order to do something,
the people that were going had to really,
really, really want me to come.
And otherwise, so I would never go to anything.
And I think that's like a good thing, probably,
to keep in, 'cause I feel like I still feel that way
a little bit of like you want people to be like,
you have to come eat like almost bag you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, you're just afraid they're just doing it
because they feel, yeah, out of obligation.
And I think it's like, if it's something you want to do
and you were invited, just say yes if you want to say yes.
Like if people don't want you there,
they won't ask you again.
This is the most Sabrina situation,
but I have never once felt like I was unwanted somewhere.
And I mean, like, I'm sure there's a situation
where things have gone awry while I'm there,
but I've never been like, oh, I don't wanna go.
Like nobody really wants me there.
I'm always like, no, everybody, I'll make it better.
And they all know that.
I think more about like applying to things or like writing
or like stuff like that, where I self,
I can self defeat myself and convince myself
nobody wants to read this or nobody will like this.
Like that, I really do, but I also like, yeah, I just,
I wasn't like this.
Like I wasn't neurotic at this age.
- Sarah was homecoming.
- I'm like, "Great.
(laughing)
- So, yeah, yeah.
- I'm Sabrina.
- I was out of variance.
- I guess take all these perspectives
with a grain of fucking salt.
- Yeah, but I don't feel like,
I honestly thought about it.
I was like, was this ADHD?
I just like didn't care what other people thought.
I didn't care what other people thought.
- Yeah.
- And it wasn't till in college that I remember being like,
oh shit, should I be caring more
what other people think?
But at when I am, I live.
- When I am, I live.
(laughing)
- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, cause I really wanna join a live.
But, and I'm like, so grateful that I was like that
because this reading this, I'm like, wow, this is awful.
I am so glad I did not go through this
because it doesn't seem like it was for good.
There's not a purpose to it.
- Not for this character.
- Yeah.
- There's, it didn't make it being like this.
This self-defeating does not make you come out stronger.
It just makes you defeat it.
- Yeah.
- Also, it's like, by all accounts,
she does, like people want to be her friend.
You don't really know.
If it's all her or, I mean, it does sound like she sucks
and I probably wouldn't want to be her friend.
- But you don't hear over, she doesn't overhear
someone saying something.
Like it's not like she's making all these observations
and judgments on herself.
But we don't, we are, it's never confirmed to us
so that's actually what anybody thinks.
- Yeah.
- Well, and like her best friend/room mate,
which by the way, like even in her retelling,
she often refers to Martha as her roommate
instead of saying my best friend.
But she would every now and then she would be like,
I loved having a roommate, just one roommate
because there was no confusion.
It was like one best friend.
And she just refers to it that way.
It's not like, but this person gets elected as senior pre-fact,
which is like the big thing in school.
So it's like, it seems like Martha's well liked
and she's your best friend.
And then also the other senior pre-fact, the boy
was the one who was nice to you freshman year
and then they do start sleeping together
but like at the start of sleeping together,
she's like, I want you to know
that you're not gonna tell anyone about this.
I'm not expecting you to, I'm not expecting flowers.
I'm not expecting you to say nice things to me.
And it's like she cuts any emotion off
before it could even blossom.
I don't know that it ever would have, but like--
But it's like, and then she's surprised
that he's not like sending her flowers
and doing the these things.
That she specifically told him like not to do it is.
And I get it, I get the like girl hope that like,
you know, oh, he's gonna still fight for me.
It's like a drug, but like we know that that's,
I mean like, obviously not gonna happen.
Squash girl hope.
If I could give one piece of advice.
Squash it.
Just ask the thing you want.
Don't think you can be passive.
Yeah, and she says this at some point in the book
like, oh, I thought I didn't realize
that wanting someone was it enough,
wanting something was enough to get it.
But it's like, she just is constantly wanting
without any action at all.
And literally acting against herself.
You know, to be honest, I like really more than anything
need a picture of this character
because if I just saw one photo of what she looked like,
I'd be like, got it.
Like, you're more than I think or like, yeah, okay.
(laughing)
It's interesting because I like the idea.
We don't get a particularly detailed description of her,
which is something I like,
because I think any reader could put themselves
in those shoes, but it's like,
you kind of have to have a personality.
Well, yes, but like other than that,
like we don't know, I guess she's probably not short
'cause she notes that somebody is short.
She certainly notes when anyone is chubby.
That doesn't mean she does, certainly.
(laughing)
But like, I can't put myself in her shoes.
I can't like visualize her walking through the world.
And then also her personality is bad.
So I'm not, like I'm not even,
it's not like I'm connecting her to anything.
- That's true, yeah.
- She feels more like less like a person
and more like a feeling of depression.
Like I can't, it's like something that I'm like,
"Oh, I don't like this."
And I, but like, as well described.
So like, again, with Curtis,
I think I like could stick with it more than I probably would
if this was a story written by a different author
because the writing was good,
but I, yeah, the story,
there's not, the story is so bad.
I guess.
- Oh, there's that one, like blip.
I don't remember what year of school it was.
It was probably do, near year,
where she starts cutting everybody's hair.
And it's interesting.
I'm curious if you guys think like Martha was like,
"I don't understand why you do it."
And she like says the thing.
She's like, is it because you're afraid to get close to people?
And this is a way that you can socialize
without ever having to like actually say anything.
And that's probably true, right?
Like it's like, this is my access to this world.
And then when Martha calls her out on it, she just stops doing it.
Which is like, maybe you would have made some friends
if you kept cutting their hair.
Teachers were like, I should get my haircut by you.
Teachers were like, I wish I could get my haircut.
I'm touching your hair.
- Do you guys ASMR is what it made me think of
that I was like, oh, she has the ASMR
where it's really pleasant to cut hair.
Or like, or like doing something for somebody
and not like she's getting, it's not getting off like,
like you're orgasming, but it's,
I was like, she's getting off on this in some way
and she's gonna realize it.
But no.
Or like, is this gonna inform her future in any way?
Not that she has to become someone who cuts hair.
Like she could, but like, no.
It just, she just stops.
The way she just dropped it and it never came back
was so wild to me.
- Yeah.
I mean, that was true for so many things.
It's like her friend that she betrayed,
that just never came back.
The only friend that she even talked about in the later life
was her roommate from freshman year.
Oh, wait, sorry, I'm all over the place.
But freshman year, she had two roommates
and one of them was Asian.
And there was like this whole thing
where the white roommate was like,
you Asian roommate have smelly food somewhere.
I know it, it's disgusting.
And like, there's this whole like, tyrate about it.
And then you find out later that like,
there was squid in the trash can and whatever.
And it's just like, I don't know, it just felt so like
weird and needless.
And I, for it to be racist and correct in her,
oh, like, almost like justified in her racism.
- Right.
Literally, like that's what it was there for.
- Yeah, that was a lot of that.
- And then that roommate later tries to commit suicide
and is also had sex with women.
Oh my God, sorry, now you're just reminding me
that like early on she finds a pamphlet.
- Oh yeah.
- Like how do you, like, you less mean?
And I was like, oh, okay.
She's gonna realize that she's, like, I was so,
it was, what a weird thing to like,
- Wow, really, we're taking, we're,
- Reflect on.
- on the cast right now.
And if, 'cause she read it in high school
and if she remembered her feelings
of reading it when she was closeted in boarding school.
And also like, oh, maybe to explain why you're not
getting along with guys or like,
because she has that moment of like hanging out
with the guys and like, maybe you feel awkward on girls
who you like, like, I don't know.
I was like, this will be explained some of her weirdness
and you know, it's, yeah.
- Yeah, like, I thought that was gonna be
when we started.
- Weirdly started.
- And it's like discovering that she's gay
and like figuring out how to navigate that.
- I did too.
- Nope, but no.
- I did feel like that was actually also very real though
that like pamphlet where it's like,
- Yeah, that's true.
- You might be gay and she's like,
I think maybe, I'm gonna keep this in my drawer.
Maybe, okay, in the like, you know,
tears later, she's like,
"No, I don't think so."
- I also, it was really funny.
- That's really funny, I guess.
- A big panic, which was relatable to me,
which was like, completely unrealistic.
It was like, okay, I have this thing
that I don't want anyone to discover
in her case, this pamphlet that she's gay.
She's like, it's in my drawer
and there's a thief on the loose.
- Oh my God, I know.
- Oh my God, the thief is gonna hit my room again,
which by the way, they had already hit her room.
Like, they're not going to circle back to the same room,
which is like, but she'll definitely go to that room
and find my pamphlet and then expose themselves.
- But guess what doesn't happen?
That, yeah.
- All right, do you guys wanna go to Goodreads' Fist R Reviews?
- I think so, I think, you know, we've said what we can say
about a book that was about nothing.
(laughs)
- Yeah, yeah.
- We gave more than the book, did it?
- Oh, you know what, I didn't say.
I feel like I almost don't wanna say it
'cause I'm gonna get mocked.
Is it Foucault?
- Yeah, Foucault.
- I know I've said it wrong before,
I've been mercilessly mocked, so scared.
The Panopticon, his concept of the Panopticon,
which is like your like in prison and you can't see
when someone's watching you, so you think everyone's watching,
if you think someone's watching you and all the time,
you start self-policing yourself kind of thing.
- Exactly, yeah.
- And that, that, that, that, that eye concept is very prevalent
in this book because she is just constantly
policing herself, like she's constantly acting in a way
or like not doing things because she's already
expecting judgments or like expecting how other people look.
And I think that is I guess well applied in like high school,
I guess, if you're like a time where you're trying to fit in
and you don't, you're afraid to ask what,
but you're gonna try to do acting a way that will make you cool.
I don't, again, I don't fully relate to this kid.
- Let's, let's do this good reads.
I've won.
- Will you also do the one star review in a bridged version
that's from Joe on April 5th?
- Can you, can you, can you, can you, can you,
- I just feel like you have it, go, go do it.
- Yeah, I just feel like Joe was on the cast.
He said, I always say if a writer can have a complete hatred
and dislike for their protagonist from me,
then they must be a good writer.
So in that regard, Curtis Sitonfeld is an excellent writer.
In any case, prep sucks.
Two reasons why I hated prep, one, nothing happens.
Two, Leafura is an annoying,
whiny, dull, self-centered protagonist
suffering from extreme anxiety and dislike of herself.
The novel takes place over the course of four years of prep school,
but Lee doesn't change one bit.
And anyway, that's really what I wanted to read.
- This book, I'm like, it has like a 3.44 as recording for,
which is, I think, pretty low for like a New York Times best seller.
So I do think this is one of those books that is divisive.
It's like you see it, you're reading,
you're like, I don't get it, or you, I guess, love it.
Here's some five star reviews.
Misa says, let me, first of all,
if it prep is far from perfect,
the foreshadowing was clunky.
Occasionally I was bored and couldn't get through the entire novel.
But then, heavy-sized, sin-filled did what I hadn't imagined anyone could do.
She made me, we lived the most painful experience of high school
with such honesty that was hard to believe
that she wrote the book as an adult.
I was astonished she was able to remember
exactly how many of these situations felt
with such vividness and sincerity.
- That's true, it makes me wonder,
did she have a diary or something?
- But yeah, okay, sure.
So this is five stars.
So they were like, they said there were a lot of issues with this,
but they still were like, yeah, very five stars.
This one is from Lucy, she says,
"The realism of this book is incredible.
I've never identified with another character more than the protagonist's Lee,
which is incredibly unfortunate because I then went on to read blog posts
and reviews about this book and found out that for most readers,
Lee was the most, oh my god, protagonist,
he had ever been in the head of...
- Oh my god, Lucy!
- That's really funny.
- Sorry, Lucy.
- I was gonna hide Clara.
- Hey, what's up? Sorry, miss everything.
- Oh, good. - No.
- We'll keep rolling another hour.
- No, kidding.
- We're going to, I guess, then, you know,
this is a great, we're going into hate rates.
So Clara, would you like to give us your hand?
- I'm gonna say, I don't know what's been discussed,
but I'm gonna go zero out of five.
- Okay, hell yeah.
- Unbearable book, unbearable person.
She's not even a real person, she's so unbearable.
And the fact that Clara just sit and felt,
think she is a real person, makes me hate Kurt Siton.
Kurt Siton felt quite a bit...
- Clara, God, we can do this cast.
- I'm so sorry to miss.
Did you guys see all that stuff about
Kurt Siton felt high school time?
- Yeah.
- Oh yeah, yeah, that's true.
- When she started a group and everyone was like,
"Fuck off."
- Yes, yeah. - Yeah, family group.
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Also, we didn't talk about this,
but just in a quick Google,
her, this Kurt Siton felt brother,
is like some sort of Ohio politician
that got caught by the FBI,
I don't know, doing some illegal shit was put in jail
and was just pardoned by Trump like two months ago.
- Oh my God.
- So really weird.
So she does have a brother, by the way,
that I forgot, I did know that, but,
all right, let's do more hate rates.
Anybody else?
- Anybody else?
- I have one, my hate rate,
it's one out of five, it's one out of five.
It, like, I didn't find myself tortured to be listening to it.
I just didn't ever find myself wanting
to be listening to it.
And I think I've stated where I am on the racism,
if not, I was opposed.
And I think I've stated where I was on the main character,
Lee, I was opposed.
- Oh good, you guys did the racism.
- I believed it.
- Yeah, it's hard to speak.
We caught it too, or if you can believe it,
- Oh, yeah.
- I'm gonna go one out of five.
I feel like Lee Fiora is what's wrong with the world.
And like, if we're just gonna have a world of Lee Fiora's,
I'd rather just not have an earth.
Like, that's, we tried.
You know, it's like if you're,
if the only kind of potato chips are kettle baked potato chips,
I'd rather just never have potato chips.
- A lot of people are really like kettle.
- Yeah, well, a lot of people really don't.
- But I guess it's a New York Times best seller
for 13 weeks, so a lot of people will really like this too.
- A lot of people like ice cold water.
- It likes the cover.
It likes the cover.
Claire, where do you land on ice cold water
versus room temperature?
- I guess it sort of depends on my temperature,
but in the summer, I would prefer ice cold.
- And in the winter room temperature?
- I guess, yeah.
- I'd rather bring the air between us yet again.
- Or is it, in the winter you'd prefer chilled,
just not ice cold.
- Yeah, yeah, in the winter I'd prefer chilled,
but not ice cold.
- We don't think I'd really allow
the ever that much warm room temperature.
- You know what, is there,
is there something about like warm water is fat
you can drink it faster?
- Yeah, for sure.
- Room temperature.
- 'Cause it doesn't take you barely any calories should digest it.
- That's why.
- I would try these waters, they're called hint.
And it's like a flavored water,
it's like flavored salsa,
but without all the acidity fat, a sore throat.
- Those are good.
- For a few weeks, yeah, they're good.
- Sorry, now just 'cause we were talking
to go back around, 'cause I said,
made a claim about room temperature being healthy for you.
This was, this is the room temperature fact.
It is often considered,
to hydrate you more quickly and effectively
than cold water, as it is more readily,
readily absorbed by the body.
So it can be processed and absorbed faster,
leading to quick hydration.
Okay, so what John said was correct about the cold water,
but there is a benefit to room temperature water.
If you're carrying that out.
- Most important part is John was correct.
I think you can edit the rest out.
- I'm gonna give this a 2.5 out of five.
- What?
- I'm shocked.
- I know it's because the writing was so good.
I can't deny the writing was so good.
And I'm fine.
- Are you trying to intern for Curtis
that didn't fell right away?
- I just thought, and I think why I keep thinking about it
is like, there are moments in the book that did affect me
when it was like nothing happening.
And it was because the writing was good.
It's 'cause like, she did a really good job
of putting me in Lee's head.
And I will say, and the reason why it only is 2.5 is
'cause I did not want to be there
because she's a horrible, horrible person,
but I still think that I was impressed by it.
And really, really up to the end.
I was still like, maybe something will happen
that will make it all worth it.
Maybe something will happen.
And no, the thing never happened,
but the fact that she was able to, you know,
take me along that, have tricked me into having that belief
that, oh, surely there must be a purpose to this.
- That's true.
- I, I don't know, I applaud it.
So I give it a little bit of--
- I was tricked too.
- She tricked me.
Good job.
I also just think maybe this was better than the other books
we read by Curtis and fell tonight on Remember
when I ranked them.
So that's also why.
(laughs)
- We had to break that SNL one pretty low.
- Yeah, I remember, I hated those on other levels.
Yeah, we already talked about Clinton's penis, but,
all right. - Good, good.
- All right, hey, good. - Good.
- Good.
All right, little fucker.
Well, John is gone, sorry.
(laughs)
- I was gonna say it's pretty hard for me to pick,
'cause I just don't have,
but I mean, John had to leave 'cause she had a mind grade.
So, John, it's my fault.
(laughs)
I mean, look, I was gonna say,
John, just because of this little water back and forth.
(laughs)
Also, she mocked me because I accidentally skipped going over.
Well, that was funny.
I'm actually not mad at her.
It's the water back and forth for me,
so I'm gonna go John.
- I'm, okay, I was gonna go John, you know,
just because the aura is there,
but I actually remembered something.
And I'm gonna vote for Sarah, and here's why.
- Okay.
- It's because Clara, I had a brilliant idea
about how to read your summary, which was to go.
- Oh, okay.
- John, Sarah, you're gonna have to do it.
- I wanna hear Clara thinks about this.
- And then we did it, and then it's--
- You understand what we're saying, Clara,
each of us said a word.
- We had one word. - We had one word.
- I don't, I don't like it.
- Yeah, okay, exactly, exactly.
- And then, remember Clara that your vote's already locked in?
(laughs)
But then at the end of doing that,
which I think went really well,
except for John is stepping on my line once,
then Sarah said, "Clarer is gonna hate that.
Let me just read it through."
(laughs)
And then she failed on her first attempt.
- Okay.
- Then got it.
- Okay, I don't think I nailed it.
- I don't, so you know,
- Wow, I appreciate it.
- Sarah, you knew me.
- Yeah, I knew.
- I knew you.
- I love it.
- It put you in it for a short, but you know what?
- You for sure, how about you?
- And I hope,
- I hope Blake keeps both in.
- Sure, you know what?
- It's in his word and now.
- I don't care if he keeps both in.
(laughs)
- All right, congratulations, Johnna.
- I know you were not here, you don't get to vote.
You had a migraine and had to leave.
This book was so painful to Johnna,
she got a migraine and she is therefore
a little fucker of the cast.
- When I signed on and her head was in her hands,
I assumed it was because of the book.
(laughs)
- Yeah.
- I'm glad she said she had a migraine
'cause at one point I was talking
and she just started doing that and I was like,
(laughs)
- She really does not like what I'm saying.
- Like, should I keep going?
All right guys, but we.
You gotta do a prettiest princess.
- Oh yeah.
- I'll vote for Sabrina.
- Oh my God, thank you.
- Oh, I shouldn't have.
You just talked about puttering my submarine, but.
- Yeah, I guess I'll have to vote for myself too.
I am wearing this pink tank top.
- All right, all of up for Clara, it doesn't matter.
I guess Sabrina's prettiest princess.
- But I like carrying them close.
(laughs)
- All right, you guys, next app,
we have We Were Liars,
(laughs)
- E Lockhart.
- And we have a very special guess.
We will be promoting our socials for that.
So look out, very fun.
We have some guests this season, isn't that?
Look at us getting back into things,
trying to produce episodes ahead of time, et cetera, et cetera.
But join our Patreon, become a patron, please.
As you can see, we are utilizing your donations
to purchase books to read and then make content for you.
So please do and yeah, I guess we'll see you next time.
- See you next time, guys.
- Yeah. - All right.
- Bye. - Holy crap.
- Bye. - Bye.
(upbeat music)