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Welcome back to Communication Breakdown, a weekly podcast from the Observatory on Corporate

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Reputation.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm Steve Dowling in Silicon Valley.

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And I'm Craig Carroll in New York City.

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Each week, Steve and I take a look at strategies companies are using the shape headlines and

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sometimes save their skins.

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It's a post game show for PR pros.

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This week, Trump lays siege to Los Angeles and CEOs… stay quiet.

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The corporate silence is deafening, but no longer surprising.

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The nation's second largest city, now the epicenter of President Trump's deportation campaign

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as ICE began rounding up day laborers from home depot parking lots last weekend, prompting

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demonstrations that were mostly peaceful with some isolated and significant exceptions.

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The LAPD, Mayor Karen Bass, and California Governor Gavin Newsom insisted the situation

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was under control.

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But Trump insisted on sending in the National Guard and then the Marines and you know the

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rest.

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And among those caught up in the chaos, downtown LA's growing garment industry which had been

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enjoying a post-pandemic revival.

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But now, uncertainty rains after dozens of immigrant workers were taken away by ICE.

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Some local business leaders have spoken up saying their employees are frightened and the

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enforcement actions are indiscriminate.

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But as far as outcries and reality checks go, that's about it.

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Waymo, a subsidiary of Google, halted its autonomous taxi service after their self-driving cars

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became the target of choice for some protesters.

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Their statement was pretty sparse, abundance of caution, working with local law enforcement.

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Like every other Fortune 500 company, they steered clear of commenting on the broader impact

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of unrest or what's really happening on the ground in LA.

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The protest in LA aren't just testing law enforcement.

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They're testing language.

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What can you say when every word is a trigger, when neutrality itself is interpreted as

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complicity?

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That's the type of brawn and why communicative caution has moved from illegal tactic to a leadership

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imperative.

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But there's a difference between being careful and being invisible and I think that's

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what companies are choosing right now.

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Unfortunately, there's no shortage of reasons for CEOs to not speak up.

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I think the broadest of them seems to be this "it's not my lane, it's not affecting my

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workers yet, it's not an economic issue yet.

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It's localized in this blue city, in this blue state for now."

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And I think also if I'm weighing these from an abundance of caution, immigration is also

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an area where Trump has enjoyed the most support, although it is falling in some recent

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polls, which we should get into later.

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So opposing Trump, let alone opposing him publicly has not been the path of choice for most

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business leaders.

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Even when the economic implications, like over tariffs, have been obvious and dire. It reminded

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me of, this is the first time I visited Australia and I was talking to some PR colleagues there

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and one of them brought up the "tall poppy syndrome," which I had never heard before, but it makes

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sense.

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Usually about being too successful in making yourself a target, the tallest ones in the field

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are the most likely to get cut down to size.

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But in this case, it applies as well.

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I think nobody wants to be a tall poppy.

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There's a reluctance right now to stand out in this environment, be the first one to put

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your hand up, you're likely to get it slapped down.

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Yeah, we're right.

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I mean, no one wants to be the tall poppy right now, sure.

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But it isn't just about standing out that's risky.

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I think it's standing out when you don't have clarity, you know, without knowing

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what it is that's holding you up.

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And silence right now might feel steady, but I think often it's a drift and drift doesn't

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hold when the wind shifts.

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You know, for me, corporate communication should be helping CEOs prepare before they're

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visible, you know, because once you're in the frame, you know, you don't get to improvise,

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so you need to know what principles you're standing on and whether it'll still

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make sense six months from now, even three months from now.

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That's what it means for a message to age well.

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You know, not just survive the headlines, but to make sense and hindsight and the only

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way to do that is to get clear on one thing before you speak or stay silent.

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And that is what principle are we standing on?

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You know, if you can't name it, the message is not going to hold and if it doesn't hold,

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it's not going to help.

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Yeah, I mean, this is not a new phenomenon, but it does feel more pronounced in this second

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Trump administration.

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And when things get uncomfortable, sometimes this instinct kicks in and corporate leaders

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think that if they stand perfectly still, somehow people will forget that they're there.

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Yeah.

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It's not a sustainable position, but again, in this age of Trump, the news cycle moves so

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fast.

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Another factor, I mean, if you remember this time last week, you and I, we made the last

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minute decision to talk about Elon and Trump on the rocks- that that relationship

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had finally imploded.

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That feels like a million years ago.

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So if you're a CEO that's on the fence about making some sort of comment here, maybe

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you're just banking that this will be forgotten too.

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And you're right to say it isn't new.

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You know, the instinct of freeze has been around for years.

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What's different now is that the system almost rewards ambiguity- until it doesn't- and

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in the age of Trump visibility comes with pressure, but invisibility doesn't mean safety.

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It just means you're unprepared when your number comes up.

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Yeah, I think another reason that, probably why if they were considering

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making a comment at all that they're holding back is this dynamic that we've

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started to call the TACO trade - Trump Always Chickens Out

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I think everybody realizes and maybe banks on that, you know, nobody be surprised if we

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woke up tomorrow morning, Trump has declared victory for some reason and pulls out of L.A.

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like nothing happened.

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And I think CEOs are familiar and probably warming up to this dynamic at some level.

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As there going, why should I waste any political capital, take any risk of being seen as

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oppositional to Trump when this could all go away in the blink of an eye?

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But I worry that there's an accumulation of these things and to your point, staying silent

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is putting people at risk.

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Yeah.

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It's a muscle that needs to be exercised.

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I think companies need to be talking about things that affect them and affect their

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communities and we can get into some ideas, maybe in a little bit about how they could be

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handling the situation differently.

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Yeah.

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You know, sure, if this were just about L.A., I think that idea would hold up, but this

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idea of like waiting it out and not burning political capital and just hoping he backs down.

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This isn't staying in one city, right?

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It's already moving in to markets where the company is operating, where their

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employees live, where their brand equity is actually exposed.

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So the risk is in that Trump won't follow through.

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If that the situation escalates and you've done no prep, right?

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There's no interon alignment, no clarity on who needs to hear what, no principal guiding

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your posture if it hits your front door.

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And if nothing else, this is the moment to get your position straight. Not so you can speak

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today, but just so you're not scrambling tomorrow.

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Yeah.

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And just before we wrap up on the dynamic that's sort of gripping the corporate

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communications field right now that we had two developments this week that I think probably

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only reinforced this conventional wisdom and just to put a bow on it,

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like the first one was that Elon backtracked, right?

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Elon apologized after a phone call with Trump, maybe, you know, his pressure, maybe

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it's just FOMO.

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And so I think it reinforced that like being oppositional to Trump is not, is not a winning

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strategy.

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But Elon, as we said, is a special case.

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I don't think everything that he does is instructive for, for the broader audience.

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More importantly, I think was Christy Walton, whose father-in-law was a Sam Walton, the founder

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of Walmart.

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She bought a full page ad in the New York Times calling for people to mobilize and protest

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against Trump.

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That prompted calls for a mega boycott of Walmart.

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I'm skeptical as to whether that pans out.

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But it adds fuel to this anti-corporate sentiment on the populist right that I think is very,

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very concerning for a lot of corporate leaders.

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And it also interestingly drew out Walmart a bit and they gave a statement to the New York

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Post condemning the violence in LA, supporting law enforcement, expressing concern for the safety

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of customers.

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But I do feel like they said the very bare minimum.

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Yeah, I think this is where the lines get blurry pretty fast.

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Christy Walton speaks out as an individual, but the name still carries institutional weight.

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So even if Walmart's distancing is factually accurate, it doesn't shield them from the narrative

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drag that's occurring, right?

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So look, to their credit, Walmart responding quickly, that's awesome.

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They stuck to safety, lawfulness.

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And they made it clear that the ad was in thers, that's smart.

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But this is also the kind of moment that exposes just how fragile the boundary can be between

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personal action and perceived corporate stance, especially with legacy families and iconic

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brands.

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So I think for everyone else, the lesson isn't just be ready to issue a statement.

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You've got to have clarity ahead of time.

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It's not just on what you'll say, but also on what you're responsible for because in a moment

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like this, silence delay or inconsistency can look like an endorsement, even if it's not

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just a messaging problem.

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That's a governance problem.

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Yeah, we should point out that I think this was really the operative part of the Walmart

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statement, which was the advertisement from Christie Walton is in no way connected to or endorsed

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by Walmart.

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I think that's what drew them out.

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And then they added the we condemn violence, including when it's directed toward law enforcement

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and the damaging of property as a company with associates and customers in the Los Angeles

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region.

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We remain focused on their safety and that of impacted communities.

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The thing there is, I agree they were smart to clarify and include some comment on the

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region.

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Christy Walton forced their hand and I think they said the right things, but they also

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managed to say as little as possible, which I think was probably the objective.

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And on that score, I'm sure they felt it was a success because the statement, I don't think

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went any further than the New York Post.

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But I think one of the things that comes, like I said at the very beginning, was like, this

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is not our lane.

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There's been a shift, I think, from five, six, seven, ten years ago in how you make these

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calculations.

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Because right now it feels like the bar is very, very high.

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Like you have got, this has got to be happening like in my backyard or in my, at my company

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for me to make any comment on it at all.

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Otherwise, I said before, it's like, this is not my lane.

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Although, Home Depot, it literally happened in their parking lot and I just don't believe

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they've made any comment they referred all the comments to ICE.

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So we've seen this dynamic over the past six months and we keep asking ourselves what is

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going to be the breaking point for corporate leaders to speak out.

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This does not appear to be it, but the popular opinions are shifting.

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The latest polling data that we have just this week, one out of Quinnipiac, one from the

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AP, Quinnipiac's found Trump's approval rating is below 40%.

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AP's about the same job approval.

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He's underwater 21 points overall, 39/60 in the AP poll.

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And I mentioned earlier on individual issues, immigration, I think there's been an area

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where he has consistently enjoyed the most support, although he's underwater even on that

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issue on immigration.

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The AP he's underwater by seven points and Quinnipiac, he's a negative  -11 on his handling.

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And that, that Quinnipiac poll was taken over the weekend as the LA crisis was evolving.

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So if people have their finger in the wind saying, well, I don't want to be saying something

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that is going to get me crosswise with a large swath of my customers or in my

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community, the immigration issue, there appears to be some significant softening there.

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Listen, I'm not saying that companies should be making these decisions according to polls,

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but I do think that it's an important signal for companies to understand that where immigration

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was an issue that maybe they didn't want to go near because it was enjoying a lot of

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popular support, we are seeing those numbers change.

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And that's significant and it's because of, I think, the actions that Trump has been taking.

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Yeah.

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You know, the thing is, you know, business leaders step up now just because the polling

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is shifted, I think it undermines entire message, you know, it just calculated as if they

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were waiting for a crack in the armor instead of acting on principle.

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That's just not moral clarity.

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That's just market timing.

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So right now, corporate communication should be pushing back on that instinct hard, right?

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Because once you speak, you're setting a standard and it looks like, you know, you only found

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your voice once it was politically safer to do so.

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You've already lost credibility with people who needed to hear from you earlier, you know,

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employees, communities or, you know, values, driven investors.

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But I think that's where discipline matters.

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You know, you don't speak because the number is deep, you know, you're speaking because

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your internal posture is already settled because you know, you've already done the work

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to know what you stand for and who you owe coherence to, what your silence would signal if you

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let it stretch on to long.

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You know, that's not PR.

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That's just good governance.

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And I think it's what separates reaction from leadership.

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Yeah.

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And in my opinion, everybody's late right now and everybody is signaling something with their

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silence, whether it's acceptable to their audiences, they're going to know better than

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we are.

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But I do think there are ways for companies to show up better right now.

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Because, you know, they're always claiming to serve communities, not just shareholders,

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well, Los Angeles is a community.

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And right now it's in trouble.

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And I think this is a time for them to show up.

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One of the things that really strikes me is that the stand up between California and

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the feds is really an information disinformation war.

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And one really important service that companies can provide is the reality.

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Check the eyes on the ground.

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You know, Trump is on his social media and getting back up from, from Fox and others.

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LA is some kind of war zone.

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It's not.

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And, you know, if it were, you'd like to think the companies would be taking steps to protect

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their employees.

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But why should we wait for that?

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I think millions of people are going to work in LA every day.

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It's business as usual for the vast majority of people and of companies.

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Somebody, like, please speak up about this.

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It's really just telling the truth.

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It's not a political act.

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And what worries me is that companies who are silent are creating the space for more

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disinformation.

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Yeah.

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So you have operations in LA, you have employees in LA, suppliers, partners, whatever.

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This whole, it's not my lane argument gets very thin.

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And people outside of LA are getting sharply contrasting, contradictory stories about what's

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really happening.

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And there are ways to do this without putting your thumb in the eye of the administration.

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It doesn't have to be a statement against anybody.

254
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It can be in support of your people and I would argue of in support of good business conditions.

255
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Now is the moment to talk about those principles, those values.

256
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Yeah.

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You know, I'd say this, you know, if you have operations in LA, now certainly the time to

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show up.

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You have clarity and not adding to the noise.

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But, you know, if you don't, this is still the moment to get ready for when it does reach

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the communities that you serve because it is expanding.

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You know, not every company needs to be issuing a statement about LA, but they do need to

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be asking what happens when it's Atlanta, what happens when it's Phoenix or some suburb

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where we quietly rely on our fulfillment and our, our labor.

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You know, so I think the most important thing that leaders can do right now is stop treating

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this like it's a one city event and start scenario testing.

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You know, what they'll say, who they'll say to, what principles are guiding their posture

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when it's their backyard.

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You know, you don't wait for the chaos to reach a doorstep to decide where you stand, you

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decide now and then you act when it's your lane, not before, not after.

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And I think that's how you protect people and credibility at the same time.

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Yeah.

273
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And again, I would argue that it really does depend on how you look at it, but I think there's

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a really strong argument for a lot of these companies who are not saying anything that it

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is their lane.

276
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Yeah.

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I've got to believe that the business community still holds some sway.

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And even in this polarized era, there's still a role for businesses, for corporate leaders

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and their voices.

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I think that they can and should be among the most trusted figures in public life.

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And they can speak with moral clarity and it can cut through the noise.

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We've seen that in previous episodes like the summer of 2020 after George Floyd was

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murdered in the wake of Trump's travel ban eight years ago.

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And yes, everybody has learned lessons from that and probably the number one lesson is don't

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go overboard.

286
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But there's a big difference between that and again, being invisible.

287
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The caution is a strategy disappearing is a choice.

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I think it's the wrong choice where companies could be in there helping to better inform

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people and helping shape the narrative that, you know, again, for stability in our cities

290
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is important for business.

291
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That should be squarely in your lane.

292
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Yeah.

293
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,720
Well, look, we can't have a podcast without having a good acronym.

294
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So I'm going to come back to a couple that we've had.

295
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All right.

296
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So we have several things that are going on.

297
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When it's a question, OK, is this crisis, is this chaos?

298
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Surprisingly, people are asking that.

299
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It's like trying to decide what's the right frame for responding, right?

300
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And the reality is Los Angeles is now a crisis, right?

301
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,760
But there's a couple that we can take up.

302
00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:02,320
One is that over the past few weeks, we've been talking about alignment signaling.

303
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I don't think this is a moment where alignment signaling is at stake, but the framework that

304
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we have for working through alignment signaling still applies.

305
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,800
And just to be just to remind people, alignment signaling is a principle where you can sort

306
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of speak out against something, but you can also signal your alignment.

307
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You can also say, well, we agree with the principles.

308
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We agree with what you're trying to get done, we just may not agree with how you're trying

309
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to do it.

310
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But I think what you're--

311
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Yeah, especially how do you move forward with both sides is the point, right?

312
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In this current environment, companies have to be concerned with speaking out against

313
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Trump and still maintaining access.

314
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If they want to speak out here on the issue of immigration, the question is, how can we

315
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do it in a way?

316
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:48,280
And I think the ways can be the alignment is not so much with Trump, but the alignment

317
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with what Trump says that he stands for, which is our country, right?

318
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So if we're appealing to-- that means appealing to the nation's values and the principles of

319
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our country tied to democracy, for example.

320
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,320
But yeah, OK, so there's a couple.

321
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,080
One is the access model.

322
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It's an acronym for how we think about speaking truth to power and how we think about calibration.

323
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:16,520
So one is, I'll just work through the access model and then we'll talk a little bit more

324
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:21,440
about community to give caution, which is when we started at the beginning.

325
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:29,080
So access stands for acknowledging the environment, which is that this is really not a great situation

326
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:34,800
for us to be in either as a country or this as an immigration issue.

327
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Second, the seas calibrate your public proximity.

328
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You got to contain your message risk.

329
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:45,000
E is to engage through policy, not personality.

330
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,680
And then the DSS, you got a signal stakeholder awareness and you got a scenario test, the

331
00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:51,920
blowback, right?

332
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,280
So you have to be able to anticipate what's going to happen.

333
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,760
So it's not about alignment as a legion.

334
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:04,200
It's about calibrating your presence, protecting your message integrity and knowing which audience

335
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,280
is need what kind of clarity for you.

336
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,520
So that's the first one of the access model.

337
00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,800
Yeah, and I think that the key point for me in there is policy, not personality.

338
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:20,360
We've seen some public figures go to almost comical lengths to make statements about what

339
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:23,600
Trump is doing and just not mentioning his name.

340
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,920
They're like John Roberts, the Chief Justice, made a pretty significant statement.

341
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It was a couple of months ago by now.

342
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It's all a blur.

343
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,320
But Trump was asked about it and he said, well, he didn't mention me by name.

344
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It almost like gives Trump an out.

345
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He's not blaming me.

346
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And to me, that punctuated this idea of policy, not personality.

347
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We can say that things are not going well or they're not being executed the way they

348
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should be.

349
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,520
You can not pull personality into it.

350
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:57,080
That may be a more advantageous approach.

351
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:02,520
I think one of the things that is complicating this right now is that you said earlier that

352
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every word is a trigger.

353
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:10,440
It's hard because everything, everything, as we've seen in multiple issues over the past

354
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,480
many months, everything gets politicized.

355
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:19,300
This is a situation that is hyper politicized because you have the democratic leaders of

356
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Los Angeles and the state of California opposing Trump.

357
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:28,040
I think originally on principle and then I think being a little opportunistic in New

358
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,280
Soms case, taking some shots at Trump.

359
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:37,720
But I think that that's the sticky part is that if you are to oppose, if you were to get

360
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:43,200
out there and say, not everything in LA is terrible, that the right is going to immediately

361
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,280
say, oh, well, you're on Gavin Newsom's side.

362
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,520
I think that is the tightrope that companies probably have to walk.

363
00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:56,680
That again gets into the challenge with alignment signaling is that you're trying to say something

364
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:02,160
that's still going to be true today, three weeks from now, six months from now.

365
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,120
We're going to have to work with this administration.

366
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,160
We may not agree with everything.

367
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,040
There are going to be times when we need to speak out like now on policies that we don't

368
00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:15,640
agree with, but we have to find ways of not betraying our values or principles and living

369
00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:21,360
up to the expectations that are stakeholders and even the public have for us.

370
00:22:21,360 --> 00:22:26,640
All that is about the central idea, the challenge of alignment signaling and the idea of

371
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,840
the access framework is about keeping your eye on the ball.

372
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:36,520
The idea is speaking truth to power, speaking out, but still being able to stay in the room.

373
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,920
That's the idea of access behind the acronym.

374
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:45,480
What's the other is that right now that when companies are on the verge of speaking out,

375
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:50,080
and it raises a moment of how are we going to roll or blade through these landmines, if

376
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:51,080
you will.

377
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:55,640
I think that's where this idea of communicative caution comes into play.

378
00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:01,720
It's a part of the work that we're doing on chaos management as opposed to crisis management.

379
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:07,480
So tied to this idea of chaos management is the steady model.

380
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,080
I think that's where it applies for companies now to preparing to speak out.

381
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:18,280
So steady stands for as strategic ambiguity, speaking out without overcommitting too soon.

382
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:23,960
T timing awareness, knowing when to speak, when to hold and when to shift, equilibrium,

383
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:28,560
you got to stay balanced, not reactive, not performative.

384
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,040
Assessment is about you have to be constantly paying attention on what's changing and who's

385
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:38,640
watching and where the risk is and yet maintaining the D discipline, sticking to message principles

386
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,160
even under stress.

387
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:44,880
And then the why of steady is yielding, adapting without losing your footing.

388
00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,240
So this isn't about playing it safe.

389
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,560
It's about playing it smart, being present without being pinned down.

390
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,760
And that's how you protect your credibility.

391
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,880
You got to stay coherent across audiences and you still got to say something now that

392
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:58,840
is still going to hold true six months from now.

393
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,760
And I think that's where communicative caution matters.

394
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,480
Not to say less, but to say the right thing, the right way to the right people.

395
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:06,480
It's not silence.

396
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,200
It's just simply discipline under scrutiny.

397
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,200
Yeah.

398
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,360
And I would argue that it is being true to yourself in that statement.

399
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:17,840
And one of the things that we keep coming back to in this podcast is at least I keep hearing

400
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,120
myself say it is chart your own course.

401
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:26,080
I think to stay steady, you need to set a course to stay steady on.

402
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:31,040
And I think in to change the metaphors, I think you need to put a stake in the ground sometimes.

403
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:36,480
And I'll suggest a jumping off point here if there are any companies who are looking for

404
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:37,560
one.

405
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:43,680
And that is all going all the way back to January when the LA region was being devastated

406
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,480
by wildfires.

407
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,960
And I think companies then were falling all over themselves to show solidarity with Los Angeles.

408
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:55,320
They wanted people to know that they were part of the community because LA was hurting.

409
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,520
And LA is, you know, LA is hurting again.

410
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,000
I'll say up front.

411
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,000
Obviously.

412
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
But it's very different.

413
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,080
The proportions are way off.

414
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:09,640
This is an armed federal presence in LA unwelcome by the mayor and the governor.

415
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,440
But if you stood with LA in January, I think you should just really ask yourself if there's

416
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,200
an opportunity to stand with LA again because maybe that's the alignment that you're signaling.

417
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,120
That's the shared value that people have.

418
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:28,880
It's tough because I think especially in, you know, middle America or red states just find

419
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:29,880
it however you want.

420
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,120
There's not a lot of sympathy for Los Angeles.

421
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:33,120
Yeah.

422
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,720
But the truth is there's a lot of working people in Los Angeles.

423
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:43,680
We opened the program talking about the garment industry, which is a surprisingly large percentage

424
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:48,000
of the American apparel manufacturing industry.

425
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,800
So I think there's, there's a lot there for companies to align themselves with that should

426
00:25:53,800 --> 00:26:00,600
be non-controversial even if the situation around them is become very politicized.

427
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,000
Let's just go to final thoughts here.

428
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:07,560
I think that this is, this is a test of principles and values, not politics.

429
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:12,760
I think that CEOs don't need to be commenting on law enforcement tactics.

430
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,960
They have a point of view.

431
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:20,920
They should have a point of view on constitutional rights and due process and transparency in government

432
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:22,400
and by transparency.

433
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,720
I mean, what I was saying earlier that, you know, that there's an opportunity here to give

434
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,960
a view, you know, a ground level view and share that with people and also not create space

435
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,680
for disinformation.

436
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,160
And for all those things, if there's no other reason that those are good for business and

437
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,720
that's, that's your lane.

438
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,360
Like you have a right to speak up and be an authority on that subject.

439
00:26:42,360 --> 00:26:43,360
Yeah.

440
00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:49,640
I'm a little cautious on the values right now unless you're thinking about democratic values

441
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,760
in the values of our country.

442
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,440
Small "d," Democrat values.

443
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,440
Yeah, that's it.

444
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,120
Small "d," democratic values, that's right.

445
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:57,120
Yeah, thank you.

446
00:26:57,120 --> 00:26:58,120
That's a very good point, right?

447
00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:00,540
Wait, I'm not leaning blue on that statement.

448
00:27:00,540 --> 00:27:03,400
I'm actually thinking about the, the country as a whole, right?

449
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,120
You know, but, you know, the, the real point that I want to, I guess if I were to put my thumb

450
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:10,720
down on the scale, it's going to be on, on principles.

451
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:15,840
You know, principles of due process, local governance, constitutional rights.

452
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,920
These are definitely good for business.

453
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,960
And right now it's what the country needs.

454
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:26,120
But not brand positioning, not CSR talking points, just basic commitments to things that make

455
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,800
democratic society work.

456
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,280
And again, yes, little "d" here. This isn't what about what makes a company

457
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,280
unique.

458
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:39,560
It's about what we all stand on and what we owe each other as citizens, as, as employers and

459
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,200
institutions in public life.

460
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:43,440
And that's not a political act to me.

461
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:45,240
That's a civic one.

462
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:46,360
Well put.

463
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:48,080
And that's our show for this week.

464
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,940
We want to thank Shawn P Neal and the team at AdvoCast for producing our podcast with support

465
00:27:52,940 --> 00:27:54,960
from the people forward network.

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If you have comments or suggestions for the show, we'd love to hear from you.

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Hit us up on LinkedIn or try our email address podcast@ocrnetwork.com.

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Communication breakdown is a production of the observatory on corporate reputation.

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I'm Steve Dowling.

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And I'm Greg Carroll.

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Thanks for listening.

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We'll be back next week.

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#HomeDepot #Waymo #Google #Walmart #CorporateSilence #CrisisCommunications #ReputationManagement #StakeholderTrust #PublicRelations #TrumpAdministration #StrategicMessaging #LeadershipVisibility #CivicResponsibility #CorporateGovernance #ShawnPNeal #AdvoCast #OCRNetwork

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