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Hello and welcome to How Did This Not Get Made?

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This is the podcast all about the movies that were never made, the scripts that were never

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written and the ideas that never even made it to the page.

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My name is Daniel Kawka and I'm Lexcee Riley.

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[Applause]

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Welcome back to part 2 of our Sonic the Hedgehog episode.

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If you have not listened to part 1, I highly recommend listening to that first before diving

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into this episode so that everything that we talk about just makes sense.

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And for those who listen to part 1, enjoy the rest of the story.

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[Music]

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MGM in Trilogy Entertainment, they're still having production meetings about how we're

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going to make this movie, what to do, what's established.

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It's all confusing but after multiple pre-production meetings, they finally hashed out a 30 page

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treatment submitted on November 11th, 1994.

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Now the treatment and I think in why suspect it was like 30 pages, it was not written by

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a screenwriter.

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It was written by two producers.

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It was the Trilogy Entertainment founder, Penn Denchham and Richard B. Lewis.

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I mean treatments can really run the gamut so I'm not like that doesn't seem too insane

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to me but that's interesting.

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Yeah.

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Before diving into the story, it starts off with a disclaimer.

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Always great.

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For lack of a better word.

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At the beginning of the treatment, this is word for word what it says.

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This is a fake story.

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Yes.

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Intellying this origin interpretation of the Sonic story, we are attempting to introduce

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a new mythology to the movie going audience.

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We ask you to keep in mind that we are selling a live action movie to a broad family audience,

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many of whom have never played the Sonic game before.

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For this reason, we believe that the Sonic movie should be a Genesis story and as we discussed

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in our various story sessions, we'll involve a teenage boy who transforms into the Sonic

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character.

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This transformation will utilize multiple film elements including live action, full-motion

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animatronics and puppetry in state-of-the-art computer generated images, somewhat darker and

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edgier in tone than the existing video game.

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There should be a strong sense of real jeopardy.

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As done effectively in both Batman and Jurassic Park, our adventure should be capable of

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providing wonderful entertainment with Sonic and his friends being an integral part of the

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movie going experience.

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No thank you.

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Why make him a kid?

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Like that is such an unnecessary plot.

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Right off the bat, you're basically telling anyone who's going to read this to be like,

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it's going to be bad.

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Do you have to have a paragraph explaining what the movie is about?

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Because that's not a disclaimer, like that's not a warning.

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No, that's why I said like lack of a better word.

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Yeah, like there's not a good thing to say that other than this is the exposition before

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the exposition before the exposition.

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Before you set your expectations really high, I ask you, what if you just like set them

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really low?

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Listen, some people didn't watch the video game so we've got to make, you know, the regular

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people understand.

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That's true.

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But even the regular people are going to be confused so we're going to add a paragraph

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before.

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Yeah.

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And dive into this 30 page treatment, I'm not going to read all 30 pages of it.

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I actually did a summary.

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I was like, we don't have enough battery for this.

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Oh, no, no.

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But before we get into this treatment, let's get into the treatment of these advertisements.

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And welcome back to the dog cast all about dogs.

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What are they up to?

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What do they see?

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What does he smell?

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Major FOMO.

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You'll hear him in the background.

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He's doing just fine.

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He just wants to be in the room where it happens.

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Don't we all?

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All right.

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Let's get into this treatment.

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The film opens on a man being chased through the jungle by snakes with wolf-like heads.

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You took a drink at the wrong time.

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I did.

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I really did because I didn't see that coming so quickly.

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What a fool.

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He's caught and dragged into a pit of pulsating, low-ing fungi.

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A two-headed creature approaches him and the scene cuts when the man begins to scream.

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We match cut to Jimmy Hedgeman, a 17-year-old miles away screaming while joy riding to impress

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his friends in the car with him.

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He's pulled over by a cop and now this is his third violation.

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As he's trying to talk his way out of another ticket, he opens his club compartment and an

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empty beer can because friend was drinking, falls to the floor.

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His friend was drinking?

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Yes.

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He's taken to the police station.

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At the police station, Jimmy reluctantly calls his father to get him.

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Dr. Hedgeman leaves his laboratory where he's working on a government-funded experiment to

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unlock the mysteries of the DNA puzzle.

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Jimmy and his father drive in silence back to the lab at Stanford.

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Dr. Hedgeman tells Jimmy to stay at his desk while he continues to work.

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We see Jimmy wearing a bomber jacket that reads Sonic or bust on the back.

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Okay, this is my favorite part of this treatment so far.

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On his father's desk, Jimmy notices a framed photo of his grandfather wearing the same jacket.

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Okay.

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Standing next to an aircraft.

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Jimmy gets bored and wanders into the lab.

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Jimmy pulls a hedgehog named Squeakers out of the cage to play with and is yelled at by his

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father to put him back.

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Don't touch that.

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The two begin to argue in his father rhetorically asks him when he's going to grow up.

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On one point, they bring up Jimmy's grandpa stating, "Hedgemans always make their mark."

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My grandfather was killed trying to break the sound barrier trying to leave his mark.

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Dr. Hedgeman threatens to send his son to military school and is interrupted by a phone call.

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Jimmy storms out of the building.

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As he exits, he passes by three men pretending to be maintenance workers, be lining it to

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the lab.

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The main man is known as the "face" who has a severe skin condition that makes him

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look like his skin is dripping off of his face.

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No thank you.

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And if you're wondering if this is part of the Sonic Cannon, yes, not.

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They made it up for the movie.

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Hedgeman is also not a name that we've...

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Okay.

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I was like, we're creating another doctor.

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We created a lot of characters in the first ten minutes of the movie.

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I'm on board.

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I like the jacket and I like the picture of it.

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I like all of that.

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Yeah.

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Will it come up again?

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I mean, it doesn't need to necessarily come up again if this is like the intro before

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the credit.

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Yeah.

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Will the Hedgeman, they confront Dr. Hedgeman and ask if they will work for their boss with

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unlimited funds and a new lab?

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The doctor says no.

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Meanwhile, Jimmy outside of the building realizes he forgot his backpack and returns to

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the lab.

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He sees the threatening man and hides in a large cabinet.

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He sees one of the men pull out a gun and Dr. Hedgeman knocks over the cabinet that Jimmy

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is in, not knowing that his son is hiding in there and attempts to run away but is quickly

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subdued.

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Jimmy is trapped inside the cabinet and notices that he's been stabbed by a piece of glass

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and blue liquid starts to seep out of his wound.

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What?

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He pulls out the glass, feeling sick and his vision begins to blur.

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Oh, this is the key, but yeah.

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He manages to get free and sees his dad is being taken away by three men.

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We cut to the police station where Jimmy tries to explain the situation but his speech becomes

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incredibly fast and now the police are suspicious of him.

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Jimmy leaves the station and the police chase after him.

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Jimmy and the police are in a high speed car chase as Jimmy drives.

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We see that he's still feeling sick and his hair begins to turn blue.

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Jimmy crashes into a police car as he gets out.

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He runs from the scene in a blink of an eye.

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It's 3 a.m.

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And Jimmy runs to the house of his Spanish teacher, Mrs. DeHammer.

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Wow, we are hard laughs all over the place.

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And it's like we can either make the right decision, the wrong decision or do whatever

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the hell we want.

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Or no decision at all.

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He explains what happens and she tells him to stay with her.

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From Jimmy's story, she guesses that these men were Peruvian and shows him on a map where

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that is.

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While Jimmy figures out where his father might be, Mrs. DeHammer calls the police.

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Jimmy hears Mrs. DeHammer on the phone and realizes who she's calling.

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He grabs the map and runs out the door.

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Meanwhile, Dr. Hedgman comes face to face with a man who kidnapped him.

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The legendary, reckless scientist and doctor.

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Which one is it?

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Paul Ellison.

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Oh my god!

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It's not any of them!

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I know.

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You literally have three different doctor's names you can pull from.

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And they chose none of them.

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At this point, we're like a couple pages into the treatment.

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There are two.

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You added four zero reason and a Spanish teacher.

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Yeah.

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For no reason.

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I don't know why.

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I'm Buckleman, can you help me?

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Dr. Ellison, he is famous for making synthetic blood.

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Of course he is.

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For the last decade, he was presumed dead.

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And Dr. Ellison goes through his evil villain monologue on how he was born without fingers.

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And he took up violin and he was known as the "fingerless, virtuous so."

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People would watch him play simply out of pity.

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This is supposed to be a children's movie, huh?

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But darker.

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While telling his story, Ellison removes his fingers from his hands and the fingers crawl

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towards Hedgeman and climb up onto his face and begin to suffocate him.

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The fingers release him before any serious damage is done.

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Ellison tells Hedgeman that he needs him to eliminate the world's fragilities so that humanity

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may live in harmony.

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This is again supposed to be a children's movie.

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I'm a fan of horror and even I'm like, "Mmmmm."

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And while G pretending to be his father, books of flight to South America.

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Hold up, hang on.

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Jimmy, who is talking like he said a thousand cups of coffee and his hair is turning blue,

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is trying to leave the country posing as his father.

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Well when he books the flight, he says that he's his father.

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I mean if you have to use this credit card.

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So many issues with this movie already.

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While on the plane, his palms begin to turn blue.

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Plums are sweaty.

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He rushes into the bathroom causes Mr. Bean levels of commotion and tries to play cool

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when he gets out.

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I have my father, I swear.

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After the plane lands, he finds some locals that will charter a boat to an island where he

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believes his father is located.

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He's mugged and thrown into the river.

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He miraculously survives and finds himself on an unknown jungle island in the middle of

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the night.

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Back with an uncontrollable hunger, he starts eating worms.

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He sees his reflection in the water.

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He's some kind of strange animal.

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He climbs up into a tree and throws up and turns back into human Jimmy.

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Oh my god.

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On the ground he's knocked out and dragged away.

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Jimmy wakes up strapped to a stretcher.

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He meets a half-girl, half-wild woman named Amanda Morgan, another name made up.

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She's surrounded by other mutant creatures.

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One of the creatures named Kentar cuts some loose.

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Kentar is a massive creature with huge paws.

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Oh, nope, not where I thought I was going.

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Dreadlocks and long arms that cause his hands to drag on the ground.

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Jimmy nicknames him Knuckles.

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So we just smashed together, canter and knuckles.

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Okay, that's actual lore.

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I'm okay with it.

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My favorite part of doing this research is I was going off of the treatment that was a

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PDF scan of one of the producers.

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What I loved about it is that there were also notes in there.

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So they went through the whole description of the canter and then revealed that it was

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Knuckles.

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Then in the notes was like, why not just make them look like Knuckles?

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We have the character there.

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Why change him?

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I love that that's the note.

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I love that whoever wrote that note, I'm right there with you.

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Yeah, like the whole time he's just like unnecessary, boring, what's happening?

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Oh, my God.

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I want to read the notes.

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It's pretty great.

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So wait, canter, cantober, who's robot?

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Kentar.

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But that's it is the same name, correct?

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Not Kentober.

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Oh, so it's not.

247
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No.

248
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,080
Kentar, K-E-N-T-A-R.

249
00:12:58,080 --> 00:12:59,920
And Kentober are two different.

250
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:00,920
Very different.

251
00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:01,920
It's robot nicknames backwards.

252
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:02,920
Right, right, right.

253
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:03,920
You can't do that.

254
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:04,920
It is very confusing.

255
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:05,920
Just a knuckles.

256
00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:06,920
Yeah.

257
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:14,640
Jimmy is taken to the mutant village where they meet the village elder Taticus.

258
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,000
New character number 75.

259
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,200
Taticus is not a fan of Jimmy and he gives the others permission to kill him.

260
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,600
But Amanda stands up for him and asks to give him another chance.

261
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,440
Jimmy is spared and Amanda continues to care for him.

262
00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,200
She calls him Sonic because that is what is on his jacket.

263
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,200
All right.

264
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,120
I mean, we're going back to the original war, so sure, sure.

265
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,240
The next day, Jimmy works with knuckles to try and transform.

266
00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,320
The two fight and knuckles is clearly stronger.

267
00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:49,680
Jimmy finally transforms when knuckles holds his head underwater and he nearly drowns.

268
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,680
Knuckles is a jerk.

269
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,200
Jimmy's hair turns blue and bursts out of the water.

270
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,000
Sonic the hedgehog.

271
00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,960
He is now stronger than knuckles and overtakes him.

272
00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:04,440
The fight is interrupted when two attack helicopters and snake hunters sent by Ellison are sent

273
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:09,680
to the village to round up mutants to be fed to the new creations.

274
00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:15,360
Knuckles is caught in so as Amanda, but Sonic manages to rescue her at the last second.

275
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,920
When the two are alone, Amanda reveals that her father worked for Ellison and now he's

276
00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:20,920
missing.

277
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:26,240
Meanwhile, Ellison is combing through the raid footage and notices a human he's never

278
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:27,600
seen before.

279
00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,560
But Dr. Hedgman recognizes that this is his son.

280
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,840
He orders face, remember the Hedgman face, to get him.

281
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,400
But knuckles volunteers an exchange for him and the village to be left alone.

282
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:47,400
Ellison gives him 24 hours and Dr. Hedgman learns that Ellison's true plan is to not create

283
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,600
the humans but to make half human half creature mutants.

284
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,360
This is such a hard left.

285
00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,760
I'm so confused.

286
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,840
I know.

287
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,320
He would do so by poisoning the earth's water supply.

288
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,320
Of course he would.

289
00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,960
Jimmy and Amanda put together a small team immune system Ellison's compound, but they fail.

290
00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:09,400
Jimmy feels guilty.

291
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:16,880
But the village elder Taticus believes in him and agrees to train him to harness his skills.

292
00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,920
Before Taticus can fully train Jimmy, Taticus is shot by Ellison's henchman face.

293
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,560
Knuckles sees Taticus's body and feels betrayed.

294
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:31,800
He tells the rest of the village what Ellison's plans are and Jimmy learns to control his

295
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:33,320
sonnig abilities.

296
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,240
They storm the compound again and this time, Sonic is captured.

297
00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:42,040
Sonic is strapped to the table getting his blood drawn as Ellison studies him.

298
00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:47,880
Sonic nicknames Ellison, robot nick for his cold mechanical methodology.

299
00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:53,120
I don't mind this nickname, but I just don't know why you wouldn't have had Ellison be named

300
00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:54,120
like Eggman.

301
00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,120
That would have been a fine transition.

302
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:56,760
We should have got it sooner.

303
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:58,200
We should have all of this sooner.

304
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:02,640
With Sonic's DNA, Ellison is able to complete his master plan.

305
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,640
With the serum, he prepares a rocket to launch from the volcano where his base is located.

306
00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,920
Oh my god, that sentence alone is nuts.

307
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,320
Ellison orders Sonic and Dr. Hedgman to be taken away.

308
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:19,120
His henchman throw the two into the pit with a two headed creature, while evading the

309
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,960
creature, the two have a heart to heart moment.

310
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,000
Luckily, the two get rescued by Amanda and Knuckles.

311
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:31,920
Dr. Hedgman sends out an SOS while the others fight Ellison and his henchman.

312
00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,520
During the fight to Ellison takes the serum and transforms into a gigantic, it is mutant.

313
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,840
Sonic attacks Ellison, but nothing is working.

314
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,880
Sonic uses his energy to spin through the volcanic rock, creating a tunnel for the others

315
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:45,880
to escape.

316
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:46,880
Sure.

317
00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,760
Sonic's actions cause the volcano to become active.

318
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:50,760
Oh my god.

319
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:51,760
The core does.

320
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,960
Everywhere, ruining all the DNA capsules.

321
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:59,280
They all escape in the volcano collapses with Ellison inside.

322
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,840
They return to the village and they all cheer.

323
00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:07,760
In the distance, the rescue team is coming, Dr. Hedgman apologizes to Jimmy and he says

324
00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:09,440
that he's proud of him.

325
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:16,440
Jimmy also apologizes for being a little shit and the last line of the movie is from Jimmy

326
00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:21,240
where he says, "You thought it was tough raising an ordinary teenager.

327
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,240
You ain't seeing nothing yet."

328
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:24,240
No.

329
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:25,240
Yep.

330
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,240
No.

331
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:27,960
This was awful.

332
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,320
You know how you could have fixed this?

333
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,480
You know when he goes to play with squeakers or whatever his name is?

334
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:33,960
There is no sun.

335
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:40,720
Like just let Dr. Hedgman have a hedgehog as a pet in the lab and when they attack him,

336
00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,880
like, crate gets knocked over and some sort of liquid spills.

337
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,240
He's a brown hedgehog and a blue liquid spills on him and then he's blue.

338
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,040
Or the hedgehog goes to run away real quick and runs through liquid.

339
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,400
And then suddenly gets speed.

340
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:54,920
We don't need a real boy.

341
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:56,600
This is not Pinocchio.

342
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:57,600
No.

343
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:59,280
There was so much unnecessary stuff.

344
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:04,360
But I can actually see hints of that movie in the James Marston Jim Carrey one because

345
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:09,680
by the end of the movie, spoiler, you had time but like, they've changed their attic to

346
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:11,320
be like his hangout.

347
00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,320
Yeah, yeah.

348
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,680
And it's very much like a welcome home son moment.

349
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,680
Yeah.

350
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,720
The reporting on this response to the treatment was absent.

351
00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:23,600
From what I read, I'm guessing it was not well received.

352
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,960
Especially because soon after Sega and trilogy entertainment hired Richard Jeffries to

353
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:30,840
write a second treatment for them.

354
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,800
I mean, again, not unheard of.

355
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:37,240
Again from the director of entertainment and consumer products from Sega America.

356
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:42,520
Rizly, he worked with Jeffries before and they were actually attempting to make a silver

357
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,000
surfer movie.

358
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,760
Now Jeffries would actually finally fulfill that goal when he was the one who actually

359
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,120
wrote the screenplay for Fantastic Four.

360
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,240
Hey, I'm on silver surfer, the sequel that we all know and love.

361
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,240
Duck Jones.

362
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:56,240
Yes.

363
00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,120
Jeffries did something drastically different from what Denchem and Lewis did and Jeffries

364
00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:03,880
actually talked to the people who made Sonic.

365
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:05,280
Did he stay a hedgehog?

366
00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:06,280
Yes.

367
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,280
Great.

368
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:08,280
That's all I'm here for.

369
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:14,560
Specifically, he consulted with Sujinaka and the team at SDI, the people who made most

370
00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:15,880
of the Sonic games.

371
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:16,880
Great.

372
00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,880
And he said, "I want people to connect too."

373
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:19,880
Yeah.

374
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:27,200
And on May 18th, 1995, Jeffries submitted his more manageable eight page treatment.

375
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:31,880
This one titled Sonic, Wonders of the World.

376
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,880
No.

377
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,880
Wow.

378
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,680
I'm so upset.

379
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,920
There's so much backstory already that's like actually decent.

380
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:41,920
Are we?

381
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:42,920
Okay, maybe I should not judge.

382
00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:43,920
Let's hear it.

383
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:44,920
Let's hear it.

384
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:45,920
Let's see what's going on.

385
00:19:45,920 --> 00:20:08,360
Let's get into the treatment by Richard Jeffries.

386
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:13,920
In this plot, we open with Josh Pinsky, a 12 year old boy, Tom on.

387
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:20,440
Using a story to his class about a daring Jeff pilot attempting to break the sound barrier,

388
00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,920
Josh sports a leather jacket with a blue hedgehog on the back.

389
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,840
He finishes the report and the class begins to laugh.

390
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:27,840
Hey.

391
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,840
Hey.

392
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,840
The teacher is not amused.

393
00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:31,360
I'm not amused.

394
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:36,360
He was supposed to give a report on the history of Sonic and he is given until tomorrow

395
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,360
to finish his proper report.

396
00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:39,360
Oh.

397
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,840
Or else his parents would be called into school.

398
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,920
Now Josh is not happy about this, especially since his parents recently divorced.

399
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,000
Josh's dad, how, picks him up from school.

400
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,360
Hell is described as an out of work computer techie.

401
00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:58,320
Too much the wild thinker to keep a steady normal job.

402
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:04,960
Hell brings Josh to his apartment where he's working on a new project known as XRI, the

403
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:11,240
extremely radical intelligence, which is an artificial intelligence computer.

404
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,920
Utilizing a unique system of holographic memory.

405
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,560
This is very much the 90s.

406
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:17,560
Yes.

407
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,560
That screams mid 90s.

408
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,560
Yeah.

409
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,240
It's just a advanced computer technological machine with AI that does something.

410
00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:28,600
I don't know how it works, but it does.

411
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:29,600
But it's rad.

412
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:30,600
It's cool.

413
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,440
It's extreme.

414
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:38,440
After dinner, hell leaves Josh to find a specific part for his machine.

415
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:39,680
Without letting his dad know.

416
00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:42,800
Josh uses the XRI to help him with the Sonic report.

417
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,280
Now, it doesn't know what Sonic is.

418
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:49,920
So Josh plugs in his Sega Saturn into the machine.

419
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,720
Wow.

420
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:57,360
He begins playing the game then suddenly Sonic in the game becomes self aware.

421
00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:02,080
He speaks directly to Josh as he's stepping out of the screen and into the real world.

422
00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:03,920
Oh, this is fun.

423
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,480
In this, what's this moment, Sonic, zips around the apartment, discovering this new world,

424
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,320
making a mess in the process.

425
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,880
While Josh and Sonic are distracted a bunny from the game just through the screen, that

426
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,520
bunny transforms into Dr. Robotnik.

427
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:20,520
What?

428
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:22,200
What a turn.

429
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,600
Sonic spots Robotnik and chases after him, but the mad scientist gets away after Sonic realizes

430
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,600
that the mechanics and the physics of the real world are not like the game.

431
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:36,320
He discovers that the longer he stays out of the game, the weaker he becomes.

432
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:37,840
Hell comes home.

433
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,520
He finds his apartment as a mess in the XRI machine is destroyed.

434
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,680
Josh lies and blames it on a burglar in the picture.

435
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,680
And the neighbors chime in and state that they saw a blue creature as the potential burglar.

436
00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:55,320
A APB is put out for a blue hedgehog.

437
00:22:55,320 --> 00:23:00,960
Hell's ex-wife Lisa arrives and scolds Hell for leaving Josh alone and takes Josh to spend

438
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:01,960
the night with her.

439
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:07,880
And Sonic finds Josh and updates him on his weakened state and that he's lost Robotnik.

440
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:13,480
Josh tries to regain Sonic's strength by feeding him cereal and peppers, but Sonic knows

441
00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,920
that he needs Chaos Emerald's story charge and it really should have been...

442
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:17,920
Chaladol.

443
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:23,640
Sonic discovers that Chaos Emeralds actually exists in the real world and that they're hiding

444
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,600
inside of ordinary rocks.

445
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,600
Holy shit.

446
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:28,600
Look at the rocks.

447
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,600
How lazy.

448
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,320
Look at these rocks.

449
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:38,240
Josh uses the Emeralds to help him finish his report in 30 seconds and oh my gosh.

450
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,400
Sonic and Josh discovered cocaine.

451
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,400
30 seconds.

452
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,200
Where was Sonic all my life?

453
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,880
Sonic warns Josh to never use these Emeralds unless you are a master or you can get badly hurt.

454
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:57,880
Meanwhile Robotnik sets up his base camp at a abandoned ramshackle amusement park.

455
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,400
God this is so 90s.

456
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,760
He recruits some bullies and turns them into bully bots and forces them to dig under the

457
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,400
amusement park to help him find Chaos Emeralds.

458
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,920
The bully bots search beyond the park and discover Sonic and Josh.

459
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:19,560
The next day, how finds a job helping to rebuild the former ramshackle amusement park, which

460
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:24,080
will be retitled the Botnik land amusement park.

461
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,080
Wow.

462
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,080
All was specifically recruited so that Robotnik could use his XRI machine.

463
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:30,080
But that's broken.

464
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,320
Well, he can rebuild and he's given the funds to do so.

465
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,320
That's fair.

466
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:35,320
There you go.

467
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,080
Cut to the park filled with people and kids who are allured there with a promise of free

468
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,080
admission and ice cream.

469
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,720
I mean, done deal.

470
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:43,720
Yeah.

471
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,880
With the XRI machine, the children experience various virtual reality rides.

472
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,320
Sonic and Josh investigate and learn that Robotnik is behind the new park and that he's

473
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:58,800
even kidnapping children, turning them into batniks using the virtual rides to do so.

474
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:04,320
The machine spits out a robo clone to go home with their parents so that no one is suspicious.

475
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,320
What?

476
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,120
God, I like this plot.

477
00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:10,360
Under the park are real kids mining for Chaos Emeralds.

478
00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:11,360
Oh my God.

479
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,560
Do you want to keep that statement?

480
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:14,560
Nope.

481
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Take it back.

482
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Take it back.

483
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,360
That took such a turn.

484
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:24,200
Also, part of Robotnik's plan is to digitize the natural wonders of the world so that he can

485
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:29,640
digitize them so that he can charge people to experience them in virtual reality, which

486
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,280
is kind of what's happening today.

487
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:37,280
I was like, the plot just took a turn and then became very real.

488
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,280
The bully bots spot Sonic and capture him before Sonic is taken.

489
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,920
He gives Josh a piece of the Chaos Emerald so that he can escape.

490
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:49,320
The parents continue not to notice that their children have been turned into robot clones.

491
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:53,080
In fact, they're actually much happier that their kids are much better behaved.

492
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,480
Oh my God.

493
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:59,600
Josh makes a plan to return Robotnik back to the game and end his reign.

494
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:05,080
Josh tells his mom the truth about Sonic and everything and doesn't believe him at all.

495
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,560
And said she calls a psychiatrist.

496
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,080
Oh my God.

497
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,080
Josh convinces both of his parents that he's not lying by having them enter into the

498
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,360
Sonic virtual world using the XRI machine.

499
00:26:18,360 --> 00:26:23,680
After returning to the real world, Josh rescues Sonic and they both battle Robotnik.

500
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:28,920
In the battle, Josh activates the XRI machine and causes Sonic, Josh Robotnik and the

501
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,880
Batniks to get sucked into the game, Sonic Extreme.

502
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:39,640
There, they continue to battle and the rejuvenated Sonic is able to defeat Robotnik.

503
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,960
Josh is able to leave the virtual world in hopes that Sonic would join him, but Sonic stays

504
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,720
behind to make sure Robotnik can never escape again.

505
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,640
Josh reunites with his parents.

506
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:56,720
Lisa states that the XRI machine is far too dangerous and Josh promises never to use it again.

507
00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:03,040
Josh sits down to play Sonic Extreme and for a moment, we catch an out of character Sonic

508
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:04,320
wink at Josh.

509
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,280
That's cute.

510
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,280
It's a much better movie.

511
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,280
That's the end.

512
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:10,280
That's it.

513
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,280
The adventure continues in the video game.

514
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:14,840
There's so much still to...

515
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,480
I mean, it kind of implies that you can go on and make sequels with this.

516
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,160
You can and you can also beat Robotnik.

517
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,120
So you said this was 95, right?

518
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:24,480
Round, yeah, 95.

519
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,440
So the thing that I was thinking of the entire time you were talking about this story is

520
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:29,440
Jumanji.

521
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,440
What year is it?

522
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,240
1995, remember?

523
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,920
There is a mid-90s theme of jumping in and out of a game.

524
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,920
Yeah.

525
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:39,920
So much better.

526
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,800
You made Sonic his own character.

527
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:48,420
And by having him jump out of the game and into the real world, you can kind of forgive

528
00:27:48,420 --> 00:27:52,160
the CGI of Sonic where you're not trying to make him a real life character.

529
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,920
You can kind of keep him as like a...

530
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:54,920
He's a bit.

531
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:59,360
Yeah, you can keep him as like a polygon type character because like that's the world he

532
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:00,360
comes from.

533
00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:01,360
It works.

534
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:05,880
Yeah, you can almost do the like Roger Rabbit of it where it could have like in the 90s

535
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:07,440
because CGI wasn't so far.

536
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,520
You could have done it as like a full-blown animation.

537
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:10,520
You could?

538
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,840
No one would have second guessed.

539
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,080
No, not even a little.

540
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,840
Like we had the animated series out there.

541
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:17,680
So like why not use that type of style?

542
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,960
I also love how quick we got to Sonic.

543
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,720
Like him jumping out of the game.

544
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,960
I was like, oh great, I don't care about the name of these machines.

545
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,520
Like none of the names in this like other characters were distracting.

546
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:31,520
This is a much...

547
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,440
You know, you have to be concise because eight pages instead of 30.

548
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,040
Like those eight pages were used well.

549
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:37,640
Yes, they were used very well.

550
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,200
Now according to Richard Jeffries, the treatment was well received.

551
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,680
Although other reported statements would say otherwise.

552
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:45,680
Yeah.

553
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,680
Shinobu Toyora, the executive vice president and CEO of Sonic of America wanted to change

554
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:52,840
the villain.

555
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:59,640
He wanted a strong slash mean villain other than Robotnik since the Sonic video gamers,

556
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:01,920
Sonic and Robotnik confrontation.

557
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,240
That's not anything new.

558
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,720
Which I can kind of understand that viewpoint, but like if you're going to do your first Sonic

559
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:07,720
movie, like...

560
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,040
Yeah, you can't really throw Robotnik out that soon.

561
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,720
You got to do Robotnik right away.

562
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,560
You can expand after that in the sequel, but like Robotnik needs to be number one.

563
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,560
Right.

564
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:22,120
I'm Dr. Evil Robotnik, the greatest scientist in a genius in the world.

565
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,760
But those pests call me Eggman.

566
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,720
From Reisley expressing his concern on behalf of Sega, quote, "We were all very nervous about

567
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:30,720
it."

568
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,560
When we were in the midst of Roger Rabbit.

569
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,560
Oh, wow.

570
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:42,560
I was just an assistant to Kathleen Kennedy, but I saw what was going on and it was a very

571
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,040
complicated process.

572
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,040
And I think more than us, Japan was very nervous.

573
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,640
Jeffries never received any notes.

574
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,800
Never started working on the first draft.

575
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,840
The film was shelved by MGM and trilogy before they got any traction.

576
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,680
And according to Trilogy Entertainment founder, Penn Dasham, quote, "I pulled this out of

577
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,680
the project when I realized that Sega wanted to hold onto the original developer's origin

578
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:10,760
story, which I could not see working in a film structure.

579
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,600
And they did not want to insult the game developer to work out a more-feature friendly approach."

580
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:19,840
Trilogy would refund MGM for any pre-production development fees.

581
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,840
Now that MGM was out of the picture, Sega allowed Jeffries to pitch the treatment to

582
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,520
other production studios.

583
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,080
The closest he got was interest in DreamWorks, but after learning the price to license the

584
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,240
IP, they soon backed down.

585
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:33,240
That's fair.

586
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,120
I'm sure that is a very hefty price tag.

587
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:36,120
Yes.

588
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:41,800
Something that I wanted to mention is how recently all this news came to light.

589
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,000
Even though development for the first Sonic film was happening in the 90s, much of the

590
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:51,480
reporting wasn't publicly known until author Luke Owen published his book, Light's Camera

591
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:52,800
Game Over.

592
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,880
How video game movies get made in 2017?

593
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:57,880
That's nuts.

594
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,320
I mean, we've kind of had a resurgence of video games.

595
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,840
What's the one where you gripped the bricks?

596
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,880
It stars Spider-Man, but they were all upset that it was Spider-Man.

597
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:07,880
Uncharted.

598
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:08,880
Yes.

599
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,640
So like we've seen Uncharted, we have the last of us.

600
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,040
There's a resurgence in the last like five, six years.

601
00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:15,040
Yeah.

602
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,040
We got Mortal Kombat.

603
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,040
There it is.

604
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,040
Thank you.

605
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,560
But also like, we have the technology to make it work.

606
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:24,360
Is this one that's like, how are we going to do live action, do like a Roger Rabbit type

607
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,400
movie and not make it feel cheap?

608
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,400
Yeah.

609
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:31,320
There are some movies that needed to wait to get made until the technology was there.

610
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:32,320
Yeah.

611
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,240
In the book, there were interviews from basically like all these people I was talking about and

612
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,200
like all these quotes that I just mentioned were like from the book as well.

613
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:45,120
And then for parts of Sonic Wonders of the World, that treatment, that was uploaded to Twitter

614
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:46,600
in 2022.

615
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,600
Oh my God.

616
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,800
By @SatemHistoryN.

617
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:54,400
That's nuts because that's post Sonic 1.

618
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Yeah.

619
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,440
And this was Jacob Berkeley.

620
00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,960
He didn't interview with Michaeline Reasley.

621
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,960
And the treatment for the first Sonic movie, which purchased by a community member at the

622
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:11,360
Twitch channel, the game show game from a former Sega employee in 2023.

623
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,360
Wow.

624
00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,880
You know, it wasn't made public until February, 2024.

625
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,720
Good thing you didn't do this episode sooner.

626
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,320
I'm very happy that I didn't do it sooner.

627
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:26,720
And when they got this, the game show game, they actually did a stream where they bred the

628
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:27,720
whole treatment there.

629
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:28,960
That's dope.

630
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,800
This was the most known attempt to make a Sonic film, partly because it's attempt to tie it

631
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,160
into a game, Sonic Extreme.

632
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:42,280
I do want to mention some other attempts before moving on around the mid to late 90s.

633
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,480
When Hurst, one of the main writers of the Sonic the Hedgehog animated series, he gained a

634
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,520
significant amount of support to continue the cartoon series and would eventually lead

635
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,160
to a feature film.

636
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:57,040
In March of 2000, he reached out to two executives at Sega of America and the pitch was shut

637
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,040
down.

638
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,320
Another attempt was by Ken Penders.

639
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:05,680
He was one of the writers for the Archie Comics publication of Sonic the Hedgehog, so the

640
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Sonic the Hedgehog comic book.

641
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:12,840
He was partnered with Larry Houston, a writer for X-Men, the animated series, and together

642
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,360
they came up with a film entitled Sonic, Armageddon.

643
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:21,160
Any progress on the film stopped when Sega of Japan wanted to focus on the Sonic X TV series

644
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:22,360
instead.

645
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:27,360
After the series ended in 2006, Penders and Houston pitched their film again and Sega was

646
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:28,360
interested.

647
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,280
They continued to have pre-production meetings into 2007.

648
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:38,400
After the corporate shakeup at Sega, the licensing manager Robert Leffler informed the two that

649
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,360
they were no longer pursuing the film.

650
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:45,640
In 2013, the film rights were purchased by Sony Pictures and was in development until

651
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:46,640
2017.

652
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:47,640
Very smart.

653
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:54,120
When Sony put the film in turn around, you know what I mean when I say turn around?

654
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,120
No.

655
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,120
Okay.

656
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:57,120
I had to look this up.

657
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,720
I mean we know a lot of film terms.

658
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,720
Yeah, that's why I'm like turn around.

659
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:01,720
Turn around.

660
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,560
I only know is like that's when you end shooting for the day and then you go back to shooting

661
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:07,560
the next day.

662
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:08,560
That's a turn around.

663
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,560
In this instance, if you have a turn around for tomorrow, yeah.

664
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,360
In this instance, if you have a movie that's in development, you can put into turn around

665
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,920
meaning that you can kind of put it back into the market to be like anyone else want to

666
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:20,920
do this.

667
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:21,920
Yeah.

668
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:22,920
That's a fascinating turn.

669
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,920
Right.

670
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,040
So Sony had put it up because they couldn't figure it out.

671
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:31,880
They put it into turn around and Paramount swooped in and continue the production which

672
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,160
led to the 2020 Sonic film that we have there.

673
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,360
So when you put it into turn around, are you like you are giving up the right to it?

674
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:40,360
Basically, yeah.

675
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,080
You're just like we wash our hands.

676
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:43,080
We fold.

677
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:44,080
Yeah.

678
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,080
Like we can't make this work.

679
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,080
Can anyone else do this?

680
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:47,080
So they selling it basically?

681
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,480
With like everything that's been developed already to be like we're not only selling the

682
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,480
IP.

683
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,480
Right.

684
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,880
We're also selling like everything that we've developed as well and then whatever company

685
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,760
can swoop in and just kind of take over from there.

686
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,200
That's an interesting thing to give up.

687
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:01,200
Yeah.

688
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:02,200
But go down Paramount.

689
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,200
Yeah.

690
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,880
And that's the most I'm going to really talk about with the 2020 film.

691
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,880
I know that there was a curse Sonic.

692
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,840
I know there was a whole change in that.

693
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,000
I'm not going to talk about that.

694
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,680
That might be a future episode.

695
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,640
It was just so much in this episode already that I just.

696
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:15,640
What do you mean?

697
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,680
There was just no way to justify that.

698
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,520
Maybe we'll do Sonic later on.

699
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,280
Maybe that's the movie companion thing that we watch.

700
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:28,240
That ends things there with Sonic and Hollywood, but it doesn't end things with Sonic in the

701
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:29,240
video games.

702
00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:30,240
Right.

703
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,240
We're jumping back.

704
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:32,240
We're going back.

705
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:37,480
But before we go back, we're going to go into these advertised demands.

706
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:48,480
Welcome back.

707
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,160
We have talked about Sonic in Hollywood.

708
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:53,600
We're actually going back in time a little bit.

709
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,320
We're going back to SDI around late 1994.

710
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:58,320
Oh, yeah.

711
00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,320
We did jump back.

712
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,320
Yeah.

713
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,400
I kind of like book into the story because I feel like from the developers, the movie, back

714
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,400
to the developers.

715
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,400
Yeah.

716
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,840
I mean, you either have to do all video game and then movie or the way you did it, which I'm

717
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,840
enjoying.

718
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:10,840
Yeah.

719
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:15,520
So in 1994, remember, Sonic was going through production meetings with that Sega assigned

720
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:21,440
SDI to make a fourth Sonic the Hedgehog game, Roger Hector, who is ahead of SDI.

721
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:26,480
At the time he figured that this game would be the last Sonic game for the Sega Genesis

722
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:30,520
since Sega was in the works of creating their new console.

723
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,400
He figured that this would be another 2D game just like Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic and

724
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:36,840
Knuckles, Sonic 3, and Spinball.

725
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:37,840
They got this.

726
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:38,840
No problem.

727
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:42,320
He brought in some of these Sega team to help develop the game.

728
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,920
Sega team is like, they're from Japan.

729
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,160
They're the Japanese branch.

730
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:46,160
They got to get in there.

731
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,320
They were there to help out on board.

732
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:54,040
He had meetings with DIC Entertainment, the studio behind the Saturday morning cartoon, and

733
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,280
they tied in a storyline with the show.

734
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,040
And they had Peter Morawick, who had worked on Sonic 3 and Spinball to lead the team.

735
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:09,200
SDI and DIC came up with a story that involved two new characters, Professor Gazebo Bubowski

736
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,640
and his daughter, Tiara Bubowski.

737
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:12,960
Why did we add new characters?

738
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:14,840
Because they were just sick of Robotnik.

739
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,680
Well, when it comes to a new Sonic game, they always add new characters to it.

740
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,560
So the second Sonic game introduced Tales, the third one introduced Knuckles.

741
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,160
They needed to introduce a new one, and they figure if they're working with the cartoon,

742
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:29,360
they introduce a bunch of new characters already.

743
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,520
They figured like, hey, let's do this together.

744
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:36,520
It's kind of like with the Batman animated series, if they wanted to introduce a character

745
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:40,760
into the movies, they would start working with the animated series.

746
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,600
Get people familiar with that character, and then when you watch the movie, you're just

747
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,600
like, oh, I know who.

748
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,120
Doctor freezes, yeah.

749
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,120
Yeah.

750
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,120
So they're working with them, creating a storyline.

751
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:55,520
So these two, Gazebo and Tiara, they are the keepers of the rings of order, who practice

752
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,440
the ancient art of ring smithing.

753
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:02,320
Robotnik steals the six rings of order, but immediately loses them.

754
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,320
Sonic is now tasked with finding those rings before Robotnik can use them.

755
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,480
The story went through seven rewrites.

756
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,000
One of the final ideas is where Robotnik creates a death egg.

757
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,800
This is his version of a death star, and it was so big other planets would fall into

758
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,520
its gravitational pull.

759
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,200
Eggs would have a very weird gravitational force.

760
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:29,520
Tails tries to teleport Sonic onto the death egg, but Sonic ends up on one of the planets

761
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:35,480
that fell into its orbit, and this, the Batniks, are powered by an alien species called

762
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,480
MIPS, M-I-P-S.

763
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:38,480
MIPS?

764
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,920
Well, Robotnik's evil plan was very present in the game.

765
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:49,200
The game had surprisingly little to know Robotnik actually in the game, and artwork for Dr.

766
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,160
Eggman could not be found in the production art.

767
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:55,640
Everything changed when the fire nation attacked.

768
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,920
Well, actually, everything changed around mid-1995.

769
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,960
It was like, wait, what?

770
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,680
When Sega wanted the fourth Sonic game to be on the newest console, the Sega Saturn.

771
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:06,680
Whoa.

772
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,680
How do you remember if Sega Saturn?

773
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,600
Yeah, it was kind of between that and the Dreamcast, knowing it remembers the Sega Saturn.

774
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,080
I have a possibly sad question, is Sega not a thing anymore?

775
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,680
Sega is now simply a game software company.

776
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,720
Oh, so they just make games that don't make consoles?

777
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:25,720
Yes.

778
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:31,560
Pretty much the whole game was scrapped, because Sega wanted the game to be a 3D polygon

779
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,880
game instead of a 2D platformer.

780
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,600
Can I say 3D polygon, do you understand?

781
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:37,600
No, no idea.

782
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,320
It's basically every game that we have nowadays where you have a character who is just interacting

783
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,480
in the real world can go anywhere that they want to with the sandbox.

784
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:53,720
Back then, because the rendering was so harsh and you didn't have much room to work with,

785
00:39:53,720 --> 00:39:57,680
computing-wise, they just kind of look like polygon shapes.

786
00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:02,560
With PlayStation and Nintendo 64 coming out with 3D games, Sega knew that they had to

787
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,360
make their own 3D games just to compete.

788
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:06,840
Have they gone through with this?

789
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:11,720
This would have been the first 3D Sonic game ever made, even though Sonic 3D blast was

790
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:12,720
a thing.

791
00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:17,200
Remember, it's not a 3D game, it's a 2D game that looks like a 3D game through allusions.

792
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,200
Allusions.

793
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:19,200
Allusions.

794
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:20,200
Allusions.

795
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,760
Marwick was removed from the project and replaced with Michael Kusaka.

796
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:30,760
Although the bigger issue was that SDI was not experienced in making 3D games.

797
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,720
On top of that, SDI was given a deadline to have the game ready for the holiday season

798
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:37,720
in 1996.

799
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:42,760
What made the deadline even more stressful was that they also planned on making a theatrically

800
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:47,160
released Sonic the Hedgehog movie to come out around the same time.

801
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:51,440
That's so much, I'm basically one team to handle.

802
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:56,240
Another problem is that SDI didn't have the development kits for the Sega Saturn.

803
00:40:56,240 --> 00:40:57,240
Whoa!

804
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:00,520
Nor did they know the specs of the machine so they couldn't even start developing until

805
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:01,520
they knew that.

806
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,520
When did the Saturn come out?

807
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:06,840
Well, first in Japan in 1994 and then in America in 1995.

808
00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,320
Okay, so it had been out for a hot minute by the time this is...

809
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,160
But then how did they not have the specs to it?

810
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:17,320
Well, they needed the specific specs for developing the game, but they didn't have that.

811
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,160
It's not like reading the computer specs on it, computer development.

812
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,280
They needed the specs on the development kit.

813
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:29,360
After putting it in order and getting the right equipment to make the team, SDI had to

814
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,360
go through the process of figuring out how it works.

815
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,560
I actually saw the order that they put in for this machine.

816
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,520
It was like $30,000 for just the development computer.

817
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,360
And then the other components that go with it, but like just $30,000.

818
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:46,360
It's kind of nuts in my brain.

819
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:47,680
It makes sense.

820
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:48,960
So they needed to figure out how it works.

821
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,640
And then to help speed up the process, the team split up into two.

822
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:57,880
One team had the proper development computer to work on the boss battles.

823
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:02,600
The other team worked on the levels leading up to the boss battles using the Windows PC

824
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,760
development tools.

825
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,120
SDI had been given one Sega development computer.

826
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,240
And if not for that decision, both of them would have had to work on the same machine and

827
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:15,040
development would have been significantly slower.

828
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:16,040
How do you...

829
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,320
I'm still always surprised when we hear stories of stuff like this.

830
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,680
It's always the same thing.

831
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,320
And it just seems like they're just setting them up for failure.

832
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,560
And then later down the line, they would have to transfer the work from the Windows

833
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:31,440
PC to the Saturn, which was significantly less powerful.

834
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:32,560
And they ran into a lot of issues.

835
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,800
They actually had to get a third company called Point of View to help with that transfer.

836
00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:38,120
That's a great company name.

837
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,800
I will discuss more about that later.

838
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:45,040
So the boss battles would take advantage of the advanced technology while the Windows PC

839
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,920
levels, they kind of looked like this side scrollers, except with a 3D element in which

840
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:55,800
you can go left and right, but also you can kind of go in and out of the levels as well.

841
00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,000
All they were developing this game, Yuji Nakka, he was not involved in the game, but he did

842
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,400
actually come to SDI to visit to see what they're doing.

843
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,000
We have not heard about him in a minute.

844
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,160
And he looked at what they were doing and he was like, "Good luck."

845
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,800
Man, you're right, this guy really doesn't.

846
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:14,160
He's like, "I'm good."

847
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,360
He's the worst.

848
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,160
Tension between Sega of America and Japan started to increase and it had to do with the

849
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:25,760
lack of success of the Sega Saturn, which was being easily outsold in 1996.

850
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,320
By the PlayStation and the N64.

851
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,720
With the infighting and SDI being in a weird position between where they needed to answer

852
00:43:32,720 --> 00:43:37,640
to both the Japanese and the American branches, both sides could not agree on the direction

853
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,800
of the game and SDI was stuck in the middle.

854
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:45,400
With all the frustrations, the team's lead, Michael Kassaka left Sega entirely.

855
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:46,400
Yeah.

856
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,960
Stepping in was the third team lead, which was a relatively newcomer and programmer, Chris

857
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:52,960
Seen.

858
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,040
SDI was in development hell.

859
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:59,080
Artists were working on concept art for levels that may or may not exist.

860
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,040
Designers made levels that might happen and programmers were waiting for final approval

861
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,960
on designs so they can move forward without wasting any time.

862
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,320
Something that was brought up a lot in the Sunmade Game was the perspective.

863
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:17,440
The camera follows the playable character in a third-person point of view, but the camera

864
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:22,040
lens or at least the look of it, they were trying to achieve was a fisheye lens.

865
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,040
It was real bad.

866
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,760
If you watch the test footage of it, you get a medium motion.

867
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,600
I was going to say that would make me nauseous.

868
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:34,360
It's very disorienting for players and the world to look like this.

869
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,960
It kind of looks like footage from a 360 camera.

870
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,040
I don't even need to look at it and I feel a little sick.

871
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:40,040
Oh yeah.

872
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,400
One of the concepts for the game was that they wanted four playable characters and those

873
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,040
four playable characters could all be played at the same time.

874
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:49,040
Whoa!

875
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,240
That is a tall order.

876
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,080
So each of those characters had different skill sets.

877
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:58,740
If you played as tales, there was one level where you could use the first person flight mode

878
00:44:58,740 --> 00:45:00,520
like his POV.

879
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,560
Knuckles had like this top-down third-person perspective for like one of the levels.

880
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,040
As for the fourth character, it wasn't fully decided.

881
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:12,880
The first choice was Amy Rose, basically the girl Sonic from the animated series.

882
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:13,880
Oh okay.

883
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:17,080
Or there was Tiara Bubosky, the new character that was introducing the show.

884
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:18,560
Throw a lady in there please.

885
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,560
Yeah.

886
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,040
So the idea that they wanted to introduce surfing and bungee jumping into the game mechanics?

887
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:25,040
Oh my god.

888
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,240
Like how much more can you ask of this team that only really has...

889
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:32,640
I feel like they were just trying stuff and they're just like, "That's kind of cool."

890
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,200
Yeah, can you give us more of that?

891
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:35,200
Yeah.

892
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:40,160
And then the idea on the story mode was to use specific characters with different skill sets

893
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,680
so they complete different zones.

894
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:46,040
The team was very ambitious and they tried to create 15 different zones.

895
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:47,040
Jesus.

896
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,760
Back to 7 and they finally settled on 4.

897
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:56,280
There was Crystal Frosts, Red Sands, Jade Gully and Galaxy Fortress.

898
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,440
For Sonic, the main character of the game.

899
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,880
Now that he was in a 3D environment, this gave the team the opportunity to give him new

900
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:03,280
abilities.

901
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:08,000
There was the Spin Slash, which was much like the Spinj Dash, but he could do it in mid-air

902
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:12,840
giving them the ability to cut through an obstacle or cause more damage to an opponent.

903
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:17,000
There was the Ring Throw or Sonic Collects Rings, but also could throw them at the enemies.

904
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:22,760
Then Sonic Striek, I could not find details on that, but there was going to be that one.

905
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:25,600
I'm guessing he just like, "If he's going to Striek 4, he can move faster."

906
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:26,600
I don't know.

907
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:30,400
There were other possibilities that were posed but scrapped due to timer strings.

908
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,240
There was the Power Ball and Attack to Strike Down and Enemy from below.

909
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:39,160
Super Bounce, a jump with added height but less control.

910
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:45,000
Ring Shield, a shield of players could create at the cost of their own rings and Sonic

911
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:49,440
Boom, if you're surrounded by a bunch of enemies, then you could do the Sonic Boom and you

912
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,960
just eliminate multiples at once.

913
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,840
I mentioned the point of view.

914
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:59,080
That was the company that was hired to transfer the Windows PC Develop Game to the SIG Saturn.

915
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,240
Turns out they ran into many issues with elements.

916
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:02,240
I'm sure they did.

917
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,240
Yeah, not transferring over.

918
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:08,840
Then they just started programming new elements of the game without letting the team know.

919
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,600
You have one job.

920
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,400
It's not even the most creative job.

921
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,980
You are literally in charge of transferring.

922
00:47:14,980 --> 00:47:17,400
You cannot start doing like meddling in the beginning.

923
00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,120
You're just going to make it up.

924
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:24,420
In March 1996, representatives from the Sega of Japan branch came to visit to see the

925
00:47:24,420 --> 00:47:28,160
progress on the game and they were appalled by the state of the game in the or disorganization

926
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:29,440
of the team.

927
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,440
They were ordered to scrap any work that they did on the Windows PC developer.

928
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:35,440
Oh my God.

929
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:39,560
They removed Chris scene as the project lead.

930
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:41,280
I don't think it's his ball.

931
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:47,200
Yep. They ordered the team to only work on the Sega Saturn developer that they gave them

932
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:51,660
for the whole game and not try to transfer other things from other developers.

933
00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:52,660
No, we're in this.

934
00:47:52,660 --> 00:47:56,540
Did they think, "Hey, the PC team, let's just give them a Sega Saturn."

935
00:47:56,540 --> 00:47:58,040
Oh my God.

936
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,240
How do you not think that's going to slow down production?

937
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:07,120
The team was in Crunch Mode working about 16 to 20 hours a day to make the December deadline.

938
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:08,120
Typical?

939
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:12,200
They even report that one of the programmers canceled his lease at his apartment and moved

940
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,720
all of his stuff to the office just to keep working longer hours.

941
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:16,720
Been there.

942
00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:17,720
He's getting it.

943
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:22,640
Sega of America executive vice president Bernie Stolar knew the team was suffering and

944
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:24,400
asked what he could do to help.

945
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:30,800
The team mentioned the development engine Yuji Nakka was using for the Sonic team in Japan

946
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,440
to develop their game Knights Into Dreams.

947
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,680
So Stolar made it happen.

948
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,000
He got that dev kit and they were like, "Okay, cool.

949
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,280
I can get that over there."

950
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:44,080
And then within two weeks of having this computer, SDI was forced to give it back.

951
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,920
Oh my God.

952
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:52,320
Turns out Yuji Nakka he had created the development engine and was not willing to have anyone else

953
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:53,320
work on it.

954
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,960
He even threatened to quit Sega if SDI continued to work on his machine.

955
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,560
Oh my God, that's such a...

956
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,400
Oh brother, this guy stinks.

957
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:12,600
In July of 2022, Nakka had denied threatening to quit and that SDI would not have been able

958
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:18,680
to use the machine because of the programming language that they uniquely developed for that

959
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:19,680
machine.

960
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,180
Whatever.

961
00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:26,760
Things got really bad when programmer Christina Coffin developed a bad case of pneumonia and

962
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:32,120
Chris Seane was diagnosed with an unknown disease and was told he had six months to live.

963
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,440
That's called stress at your body.

964
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,920
SDI Coffin and Seane were able to fully recover.

965
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:38,920
So he's okay.

966
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:39,920
Oh my God.

967
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,240
It was after this that the game was delayed and it was officially canceled in early 1997.

968
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:50,240
SDI was officially shut down in 1996.

969
00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:52,160
Sounds like people were getting overworked.

970
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:53,640
Yes, very much so.

971
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:59,040
For the sake of people's livelihoods and lives, none of that should have happened.

972
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:00,040
It should have.

973
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:06,280
Sega, to take advantage of the 1996 holiday season, they re-released an upscaled version

974
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,960
of Sonic 3D Blast for the Saturn.

975
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:14,480
Nakka and the Sonic team after finishing Sonic Knights developed a new Sonic game called Sonic

976
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:19,440
Adventure, which would help launch Sega's next console, the Dreamcast.

977
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,880
I don't remember any of these.

978
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:23,200
I remember the Dreamcast.

979
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:26,120
If you ever played Crazy Taxi, you played the Dreamcast.

980
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,120
Nope.

981
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:28,920
Oh okay, never mind.

982
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:33,600
Something that I wanted to include, but didn't actually know where to fit it in because there's

983
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:39,000
no exact timeline of when this would have happened is the various names the game went through.

984
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:43,080
Sonic Extreme is one that everyone knows it as, but there were other names that it went

985
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:44,080
under.

986
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:47,960
Now keep in mind some of these names were internal project names.

987
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,320
And then there were some that were official names for the game.

988
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:53,400
Some of them you can kind of tell the difference of.

989
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:57,880
So like Sonic Mars, I believe was like a proposed name for the game.

990
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,880
But Sonic 32X was a project.

991
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:00,880
Oh, that's a project code.

992
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:07,360
Yeah, there was Sonic Saturn, another project name, Sonic Ring Worlds.

993
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,120
Sonic Boom, the great name.

994
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:17,320
Sonic Extreme, Sonic Twist, Sonic PC, that was the project name, but like the PC version

995
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,600
was soon abandoned because they're like, we can't try to put this on the PC.

996
00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,560
Like we're already struggling with the Saturn.

997
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:25,600
But they had the development stuff for that.

998
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:26,600
They did.

999
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,680
Sonic Blue St, Sonic Blast, and Super Sonic.

1000
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:31,280
That's so many names.

1001
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:32,280
Yeah.

1002
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:36,920
The last thing that I want to mention is the legacy behind this game and the fans attempt

1003
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:38,720
to try and preserve it.

1004
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:44,800
There was a boss fight prototype created by Christina Coffin known as Project Condor.

1005
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:49,800
And that went up for auction in 2006 on assembler games.

1006
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,800
The hope was the prototype would be purchased and made public, but it just went to a private

1007
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:54,800
collector.

1008
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:55,800
Oh man.

1009
00:51:55,800 --> 00:52:02,120
In 2009, a package of unreleased textures and level data was leaked along with a viewer.

1010
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:06,280
It allowed fans to see what the game looked like, but it was not playable.

1011
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:13,800
In 2014, an assembler games member known as Jolly Roger acquired the source code from Point

1012
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,560
of Views work on Sonic Extreme.

1013
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:20,640
With a lot of trial and error to get enough of the code to work, he put together and released

1014
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:29,440
on February 23rd, 2015, a single level demo for the first time ever could someone actually

1015
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,960
play a level from Sonic Extreme.

1016
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,440
I'll be at the level is very lackluster and incomplete, but still it happened.

1017
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,440
Did you play it?

1018
00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:38,440
Did you find it?

1019
00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:43,160
I've seen video footage of this and in fact, that's where we get so much of the information

1020
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,120
select the fish eye lens.

1021
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,360
We would not have known of until we would have gotten something like this.

1022
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,120
After that year, more of the game was discovered.

1023
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:59,280
There is the level featured in the 1996 E3 trailer that people could actually play now.

1024
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:03,640
Another level featured the fish eye lens perspective.

1025
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:09,800
Over 150 more levels, well, incomplete levels have been discovered so far.

1026
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:10,800
Whoa!

1027
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,440
Some of which you can control Sonic and others you can only control the camera and just explore

1028
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:15,440
the level.

1029
00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:21,120
In 2016, Jolly Roger stated he's looking through the source code in hoping to find more

1030
00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,800
to release to the public.

1031
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:23,800
That's pretty cool.

1032
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:24,800
Yeah.

1033
00:53:24,800 --> 00:53:29,760
From what I've noticed, like Sonic fans, they are dedicated, very extreme.

1034
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,200
If they want to try and uncover something, they will.

1035
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,080
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like at 150 levels.

1036
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,920
But yeah, that's the story of Sonic.

1037
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:42,480
His first attempt to be in a movie and Sonic Extreme, the game that tried to tie in with

1038
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,880
the movie, and did not happen for pneumonia reasons.

1039
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,000
For near death experiences.

1040
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:55,920
It's wild to me after we did scoop and then this, to see how much work can go into both

1041
00:53:55,920 --> 00:54:00,400
the film and gaming industry, and then it just, like, it's gone.

1042
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,480
In this case, they were cutting their losses, realizing that they were pushing the team too

1043
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:05,480
far.

1044
00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:06,480
Just a little bit.

1045
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,280
And they were just like, this game is not worth killing someone.

1046
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:10,280
Later, really.

1047
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,000
The third one comes out on the 20th of December.

1048
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,000
Yeah, that is Sonic.

1049
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,120
At least what I deemed important.

1050
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,720
This is a mountain of information.

1051
00:54:18,720 --> 00:54:21,480
And I had started this a year ago.

1052
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,600
I just could not figure out what the story was.

1053
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:31,200
And once I learned of the rise and fall of STI, that's where it really is.

1054
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:36,240
Is like Sega trying to shoehorn the movie within that, but it was really just like their

1055
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:40,520
struggle on just being a development branch of Sega.

1056
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,200
And now they're just gone.

1057
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,680
I mean, those people are still hopefully alive and living a good life.

1058
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,800
Something that I left out was a lot of the programmers, developers that were part of the

1059
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:50,800
team, like they went on.

1060
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:52,240
They made other games as well.

1061
00:54:52,240 --> 00:54:53,560
I'm sure they did.

1062
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,680
And hopefully in a less stressful environment.

1063
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:56,680
Yeah.

1064
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:01,240
And I didn't think it was necessary to end it with like the freeze frame on their faces

1065
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:02,480
to be like, so and so.

1066
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,080
Oh, are we not putting that in?

1067
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:05,880
I don't think it was necessary.

1068
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:11,720
Like many of them did go on fixed it in post and they continue to create more and more video

1069
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:12,720
games.

1070
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:13,720
Awesome.

1071
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:14,720
Yeah.

1072
00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:15,720
I like the history.

1073
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:16,720
I learned a lot.

1074
00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:17,720
Yeah.

1075
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:17,720
It actually makes me want to watch Sonic 2 and 3.

1076
00:55:17,720 --> 00:55:19,920
Mainly I want to see when chili dogs are used.

1077
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,640
I think chili dogs are used like immediately in the first scene of Sonic 2.

1078
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:25,960
I think you're right.

1079
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,540
Because I got to knuckles, but I also might have been in the kitchen grabbing my own snack

1080
00:55:29,540 --> 00:55:31,540
of chili dogs.

1081
00:55:31,540 --> 00:55:33,960
So we're going to enjoy some chili dogs.

1082
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:34,960
Honestly, I'm starving.

1083
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:35,960
Let's go get chili dogs.

1084
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:45,760
That sounds great.

1085
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:48,600
Anything else we want to do before we wrap up this episode?

1086
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,720
This is our last episode of the year.

1087
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:52,240
Hey, congratulations.

1088
00:55:52,240 --> 00:55:53,240
We're not done yet.

1089
00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:55,520
There's so much post work.

1090
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:56,520
Yeah.

1091
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:57,520
There's a lot we have to do.

1092
00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:58,520
Yeah.

1093
00:55:58,520 --> 00:55:59,520
We will see you next year.

1094
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:00,520
Yeah.

1095
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:02,280
With more on made movies, on made films.

1096
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:10,040
We will see you all in the Patreon, Neons, Patreon, in the comments and all that stuff.

1097
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:12,240
The emails, are we doing movie wrecks?

1098
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:13,240
Yeah.

1099
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:15,200
Because actually I thought of one last night that I did see.

1100
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,200
Okay.

1101
00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:17,400
What is a movie wreck for you?

1102
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,680
I think the substance is gold.

1103
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:23,440
I keep seeing so many good things from the substance.

1104
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,320
I've not seen that yet from what I've seen.

1105
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:26,320
It seems incredible.

1106
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:30,000
So everything that you think it is, throw it out.

1107
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:31,000
Okay.

1108
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,840
When Laura was in town visiting, she was like, let's watch the substance.

1109
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:35,840
I've seen it.

1110
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,480
I don't know a lot of people that have.

1111
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,160
And she's like, I really just want to watch it to see her reactions.

1112
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:44,920
And all she kept saying is it gets worse.

1113
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,080
Up until end credits.

1114
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:49,080
Every time she would be like, don't worry, it gets worse.

1115
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:50,480
I was like, we've hit the ceiling.

1116
00:56:50,480 --> 00:56:51,800
We hit the ceiling 12.

1117
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:52,920
It gets worse as a go.

1118
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:57,920
And I think Demi Moore is incredible in it and Margaret Qualie-Qailey, whatever.

1119
00:56:57,920 --> 00:56:59,520
I'm so sorry.

1120
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:00,520
Also great in it.

1121
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:02,880
I think it has a really good message.

1122
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,840
And then it is also, if you don't like Gore, you're not going to like it at all.

1123
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:07,840
But there's the warning.

1124
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:08,840
It is very gory.

1125
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:10,080
It is a good time.

1126
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:11,600
I think about it daily.

1127
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:12,600
All right.

1128
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:13,600
What's your wreck?

1129
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:19,800
So this isn't for the movie theater experience, but I did watch this movie lately and because

1130
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,440
it's a holiday season.

1131
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:26,840
I watched the Lacey Shabair vehicle known as Hot Frosty.

1132
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:28,160
Oh, that's not where I thought you were going.

1133
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,720
I thought it was going to be a hallmark movie.

1134
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,720
I have not seen Hot Frosty yet, but I think it's going to be a time.

1135
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:33,720
It's a Netflix movie.

1136
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:35,520
It's one of the Netflix Christmas movies.

1137
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:37,000
It is fantastic.

1138
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:38,320
Lacey Shabair falls in love.

1139
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:39,320
Fogging in the air.

1140
00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:41,040
Fogging in love with a snowman.

1141
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:45,160
Is it true that she puts her scarf around him?

1142
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:46,160
And he comes to life?

1143
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:47,160
Yes.

1144
00:57:47,160 --> 00:57:48,160
Frosty, the snowman.

1145
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:49,160
It is amazing.

1146
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:51,960
Someone took that song real literal.

1147
00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:55,600
The thing is that this movie understands the assignment.

1148
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:56,600
Great.

1149
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:57,600
I'm here for it.

1150
00:57:57,600 --> 00:58:00,160
And the magic is ridiculous.

1151
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,160
Two of the cast members, which I'll bring up Craig Robinson.

1152
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,480
Oh my god.

1153
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,080
And Joe Lutruglio.

1154
00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,080
You might know him best from Brooklyn, I know.

1155
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:09,080
Great.

1156
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:10,400
Yeah, both of them are in it.

1157
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:11,920
They're both cops who are--

1158
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,560
Abbott and Castello.

1159
00:58:13,560 --> 00:58:19,040
They're investigating what happened because in the beginning when Hot Frosty turns into

1160
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,920
a human, he accidentally breaks the window of a shop and they have to investigate it.

1161
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:27,560
And they're just like, who is this good-looking man who is walking around naked?

1162
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:28,560
Only wearing a scarf.

1163
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:30,760
It says some mannequin vibes to it.

1164
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,000
It's a holiday movie that understood the assignment.

1165
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:37,960
They know why they cast Lacey Shabair because of her recent hallmarking.

1166
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:39,360
Hallmark explosion.

1167
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:41,040
It is over the top.

1168
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,040
They know what's going on.

1169
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:45,400
There is a Mean Girls reference in the movie.

1170
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:47,120
That has been ruined for me.

1171
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:48,120
Oh.

1172
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:51,280
When I saw it, I was like, that's really clever, the way that they did it.

1173
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:52,280
Yeah.

1174
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:53,280
It's very clever.

1175
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,280
It was great.

1176
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:56,720
So if you are not in the mood for a holiday movie, watch the substance.

1177
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:59,560
If you are in the mood for a holiday movie, Hot Frosty.

1178
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:01,320
But yeah, that's it.

1179
00:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,800
Anything you want to plug before we do our usual.

1180
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:05,920
Now we're going to see you next year.

1181
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:06,920
Excellent.

1182
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:16,360
We'll see you all next year.

1183
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:21,480
If you want to see the full recording of us do this episode that is going to be on our

1184
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:26,480
Patreon, there you can also get ad free episodes of our episodes.

1185
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:31,080
And you'll be able to vote on what our season finale episode is going to be.

1186
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,680
If you can't support us on Patreon, that's completely understandable.

1187
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,120
There are other ways that you can support us as well.

1188
00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:41,040
You can rate and review our podcast on the pod catcher of your choice.

1189
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,640
You can follow us on our social media.

1190
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,680
That is at How Did The Snack It Bade on both TikTok and Instagram.

1191
00:59:46,680 --> 00:59:51,760
And we have since moved from the dark place to Blue Sky.

1192
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:57,200
And that is under the same handle from the dark place at HDT and GM.

1193
00:59:57,200 --> 01:00:02,800
There you can see images, concept art of the things that we are talking about.

1194
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:08,920
And you can watch videos of us on TikTok, Instagram of our recording sessions and all the fun

1195
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:10,560
that we are having here.

1196
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,320
And until next year, stay frosty.

1197
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,320
Happy holidays.

1198
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:16,320
Merry Chrysler.

1199
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:26,320
[MUSIC]