[MUSIC]
And John Irving can paint a picture with his words.
He just painted a lot of pictures and I didn't like the subject of it.
>> And at the end of the day, I'm just like, why?
Why did I experience this?
>> This is a family of sexual perverts, that part is off-putting.
But I don't think we're a legacy destroying podcast.
Even though I would love to have that power.
It's like Zoe De Chanel.
It's quirky and yet it angers you.
[MUSIC]
>> Hello everyone and welcome to Mean Book Club.
This week we read The Hotel New Hampshire by John Aureen.
>> Wow.
>> Yes.
>> We're tackling a legend.
>> A legend.
>> We went there.
>> We had to postpone twice because this book is so long.
>> So fucking long.
>> This is why you can't recommend long books.
>> And it was our mistake because usually we don't let long books get past us.
>> Never.
>> Usually we look up the page count and we're like, "Mavitch."
>> This is one.
>> This is a column from Page Count.
I don't know how this one got through the crack.
>> It's really hard to imagine how something sloppy could have happened on our book or
a bunch of things.
>> It's so carefully curated.
Like all elements of this podcast.
>> I love that.
>> And we have a spreadsheet.
I think that's pretty impressive.
>> That's impressive.
>> As always, we are your host.
I'm Sarah.
>> What's up, Clara?
>> What's up, John A?
>> And I think you're locked.
>> And are.
>> I think so, but I don't know.
>> Or are you locking yourself?
>> Of course, they wouldn't be exciting.
>> I don't know.
It's just like, what is this 1995 and we're on TRL with Carson Daly.
>> I don't know what you're--
>> No, it's 2023 and we're on the Today Show with Carson Daly.
>> A dream.
>> What's up?
What's up?
What's good?
Claire Morris.
>> Well, how are you supposed to see your name?
That's a fun way to do it.
Who cares where I get my inspiration from?
If it's from TRL, let's from TRL.
>> Point is, it's a pretty successful show.
>> And Sabrina's not here.
>> We're very sad about it and she's sad about it too.
Some people are just career climbers.
And that's not us.
>> That's us.
>> We are career sitters or fallers.
[LAUGHTER]
>> Yeah, anyway, so we're reading the hotel new Hampshire.
This is our big finale episode for season 15.
And in hot, this book was recommended by a fan Mike E on Twitter.
And he said, it's John Irving from the world according to Garpe.
And it's weird and dirty with a carining plot.
And they made fun of the movie with Rob Lowe and Jodie Foster.
It's got suicide and incest in hostages and a word I can't read.
>> A martyr?
>> Can't perhaps?
>> Maybe, oh, that's probably.
>> I'm a martyr.
I can't miss.
So that would definitely, I know that that probably didn't trick me because they said, she
said, "Carrieening pot, suicide incest hostages."
So definitely, those are definitely words that, it feels like it's going to be more of
a thriller based on my piece description.
>> Mike, you let us down.
>> I also don't know John Irving.
Have you read John Irving before?
>> No, but I want to say these rules because people love him.
Sider house rules.
There's another big one, right?
>> Yeah.
>> I don't think she just said that.
>> Yeah, a prayer for Owen Meeney.
>> I heard it.
>> Those are the--
>> Yeah.
>> I think this, oh, son of the circus?
Yeah, I've heard of that too.
I guess I don't know him, but I know of him, you know?
>> Yeah, I haven't even seen the movies that, like I haven't seen a city of
Sider house rules and all that, even though I know it.
>> Sider, Sider, Sider?
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, I don't really hasn't seen it.
>> I really haven't seen it.
>> She's not making a--
>> What is a Sider house?
A house made out of Sider, that makes sense.
>> Sure, I understand the confusion.
>> A house made out of Sider.
>> That's where I make this.
>> [LAUGH]
>> Shut up, shut up, shut up.
It's about a house that makes Sider.
I assume it's about its rules, Sarah, or it's like Sider house rules.
>> What is the book about?
>> I thought, I only thought I heard it was about abortion and I don't understand.
It's misleading title.
>> Anyway, we read the Hotel New Hampshire, that's the one we were recommended and that's
the one we read.
>> Yes.
>> So how did you guys read this book?
>> I bought an audiobook because it's not, audiobook was not available anywhere.
>> And it was at any library, John, this is library over there, I'm here with a library.
And I'm not getting a PDF of this sucker.
It was like a 19 hour audiobook, so I can't imagine what that is in pages, a million.
>> I'm glad you mentioned the library, Claire, because the libraries are under attack right
now in New York City.
Their budget has been slashed, they are--
>> I heard that.
>> The desk doorstep.
>> Uh-oh.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm going to have personal grievance with the mayor if I can't get my books.
>> Delivered them out.
>> No, we have an important podcast.
>> Yes.
>> And after all your campaigning for the library on the pod, I can't believe that didn't
affect anything.
>> All for not.
It's like it's falling on deaf ears.
It's like no one's mayor is not listening.
The mayor is not listening, it's fucked.
>> I've gotten this book so many times from the library because we also--
>> This was on our list last season, and I think we really didn't want to read this book
come to think of it because it got bumped.
I think I've gotten it out of the library five times.
And finally, the most raggedy copy that the library had, I finally finished.
>> Wait, Johnna, are you saying that you knew the high-page count from previous season?
>> No, I never--
>> Because you started it.
I just had the book--
>> I even looked at it.
>> No, I was like, okay.
>> Yeah, okay.
>> It could have been big letters inside there.
>> Yeah, that's true.
>> That's true.
Like, extreme at the time.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> And my book, page count is only--
300 and 90--
>> That's how it does for us.
>> Yeah, that doesn't sound bad.
That doesn't sound horrible.
>> It does.
>> No, it sounds like a normal, but it's not.
>> But it's not.
>> Tiny print.
>> A whole thriller.
It's not a grocery store purchase.
It's a bookstore fiction section purchase.
>> Go ahead and double that page count in reality.
>> Yeah, it should be double.
Yeah, they're not doing a bunch of chapters.
Is that a lot of blank space on the page?
>> They're not doing the thing that we appreciate,
which is end a chapter, put a big blank page after it.
Start the next chapter.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Don't be rude into it like this.
>> I also--
I first checked it out of the library,
and it was sadly in like hard back, large print addition.
>> And I had to be--
>> I had to travel, and I was like, no.
So I paid for the audio book, and then at some points,
I also found a library virgin that was digital,
so I searched--
>> A library virgin?
>> The name one else here.
>> I heard it.
>> We all heard it.
>> Everyone listened to her?
>> I heard it.
>> All right, library virgin--
Yeah, I'm just going to keep it.
I'm going to stick with library virgin.
>> I got a library virgin.
>> Yeah, fuck dim, fuck dim, hard, library virgin.
>> And I'm going to go in your wood.
>> That they say in the hallways.
>> It's cool.
>> Anyway, yeah, so--
>> Yeah, but also, I guess mainly audio book.
So, oh my god, the next part, I have to sum it up.
This is where?
>> Ooh.
>> This is a hard book to sum up.
>> Yeah.
>> So I've chosen to not sum it up.
>> What?
>> Did you just forget, Sarah?
Because you said, oh my god.
>> No, no, there's something written here.
>> There's something written here.
>> Oh, there's something written here.
>> There's something written here.
>> This is--
>> You wrote two summaries.
You did a lot of work.
>> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll see.
>> Okay.
>> Let's go.
John, do you want to read the non--
>> Let's just call it narration.
>> Yes.
>> State traction.
>> Sure.
>> Clarity, do you want to be Frank?
>> Sure.
>> Franny and Chipper Dove?
>> Love it.
>> Chipper Dove is the best name I've ever read, by the way.
>> And this is like a movie trailer, so that should inspire you for how you read it.
>> Okay.
>> Okay, go ahead.
>> Mean book club invites you to spend the time of your life at the morbidly whimsical hotel new Hampshire,
where everything happens that could happen between a man and a woman, a boy and a girl, and a bear.
>> Franny and John are out here fooling around with each other again.
They're perverts.
>> Everyone has fun at the hotel new Hampshire.
Some say the first thing you go there, some say the first time you go there is the best.
>> It's important the first time.
>> It's the first time.
>> It's the one that sticks with you forever.
>> Others prefer the second time.
>> Do it again.
I bet you can't.
I bet it was beginner's luck.
>> That's a bear!
>> That's a bear that wants you.
>> The hotel new Hampshire, where the entertainment never stops.
>> Really good.
>> It is accurate.
>> This is just fun.
>> I think maybe having me play all the characters might have helped.
>> I actually think summary two would help at this point?
>> Okay, that was, I'll just say that that was just, I took it from a movie trailer for the movie version of the book.
>> You didn't even write this?
>> Why are there so many question marks?
>> No, no, no, no, the first one, the one we just did read.
>> Yeah, yeah, okay.
>> This is, no, this is something I was writing.
>> I was thinking, wow, there must have really pictured it in her head because it doesn't work.
>> Just listening.
>> I can see it working with some visuals.
>> Yeah, yeah, it's bad.
>> I just don't know who's talking.
>> Your hand written summary here is better.
>> Okay, you want to read it?
>> Sure.
>> It's called summary two.
>> Hotels, a quirky and sensuous couple, a woman who disguises herself as a bear to deal with the trauma of rape,
another real bear that does tricks, attacks a durmidog, a girl that won't grow, Austrian terrorist, suicide,
question mark, question mark, question mark, question mark.
>> That was it.
>> Those are some stuff that happens.
>> Yeah, seemingly unrelated.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> Hotel, new hand, yeah.
>> This is a lot that happens in this book.
Family owns a hotel and they're all little weirdos.
>> And it's a family of sexual perverts that--
>> I guess if I may--
>> A bear in a fake bear later.
>> If I may, this may not be helpful at this point, but a belated trigger warning.
This book deals with incest, rape, and suicide.
So it's a very heavy book and we're probably going to say those words a couple times and we may have already said that I'm sorry.
>> Oh, yeah, he did.
>> I'm so sorry.
>> Yeah, so that's in the book and we'll definitely be discussing the topics like adults that we are.
>> Yes.
>> We'll be able to handle this with grace and tact as always.
>> Yeah, definitely, as always.
John, do you have a drink pairing for this?
>> Yeah, I do.
>> Even though you asked me a way to--
>> Is it cider?
>> And sincere.
>> Why would it be cider?
>> Why?
>> Well, what is it's a channel?
Let's see if it's better than cider.
>> It is, Clara.
It's called The Great Gatsby.
It's a cocktail.
And the reason is because the author is like obsessed with saying The Great Gatsby in the book.
I don't understand if he thinks that's like if I say it enough people will be into associate this with a more impressive novel.
I really don't understand but they say "Gatsby" so much.
And it's just in reference to like the book.
So I thought that it would be a nice pairing to pretend you were reading a better book like The Great Gatsby and drink a Gatsby cocktail, which is grapefruit juice.
>> Ooh!
>> Vodka.
>> Okay.
>> You can stick with me vodka.
>> You're out.
>> Okay, I'm out.
>> Just ruin the grapefruit juice.
>> Yep.
And then Lilette Blanc.
>> Ooh!
>> And then you garnish with a little orange slice on top.
And it is a lovely light pink color.
And I would recommend using a big fancy ice cube such as I went to get Thai yesterday in flushing.
And their ice cubes looked like roses.
So think about that.
>> Okay.
>> It's unnecessary detail.
>> But I'm glad you guys had this time.
>> What do you call all of them?
>> Glad you had a nice time.
>> I did a nice time.
>> You can just tell us about that off mic the nice times that you have in between podcast records.
>> Someone invited me.
>> It's yet time.
>> And afterwards, all the way in flushing.
>> Yeah, that's right.
>> All right, well, what a great pairing.
We'll be right back.
Da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da~
God is loving it
And we're back um after that great commercial break we're talking the hotel new hamshur
by John Irving alright so dis buck came out in 1981 so like so long ago right
um it apparently had mixed reviews from critics but it sold well it was a number one
New York Times best seller and it stayed number one for seven weeks and was in the top
15 for over 27 weeks so like people love this book yeah it was in uh had he
as you already famous is you already had a couple famous books um yeah he had
had one famous book before this so this is like second the software slump so
might say well I mean that's hard to believe he was ever good at anything
um yeah it was very quickly after adapted to a movie which are recommender
Mike E on Twitter did reference that it was a movie starring Jody Foster Roblo
and Bo Bridges I don't think I'd like to be in this movie
I'm generally of sexual perverts than that part yeah is off-putting meaning there
um but a little bit about John Irving he's obviously kind of like a bit of a
titan I guess he seems like a lot I think from reading the book but he was born in
Newt would you believe it new hamshur in 1942 which is exact same as our main
character I was gonna say whose name is John I'm just putting that together
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah would you believe there is a novelist in a book he
really writes and the barely writes this is a lot like all most of his books are
sitting in hamshur he also grew up in Exeter to stepfather was a faculty member at
Phillips Exeter Academy so like obviously they're all the men's yeah yeah um
they're the grandfather working up bad prep school and you know and this is
a strong point of view of like one of the kids so it's a lot about school yeah so he as a writer in the late 1960s he studied with Kurt Vonnegut at University of Iowa's writer's workshop which is
very pretty good yeah but did Kurt Vonnegut like him it's like why you throwing his name in there you know you if you went to the workshop
why you got to throw Vonnegut it's sort of like the high-eccuring yeah I think it's worse John I think
um he and Kurt yeah he published his first novel in 1968 it was called "Setting Free the Bears" so clearly he has a thing for bears since bears also feature prominently and we'll talk about the bears
we're gonna talk about the bears um the so the book that came out just before
Hotel New Hampshire was the world according to Garpe and he won the National Book Award in 1984 that and that book made him independently wealthy like that was his that was a big hit so this came right after that
that's when he was like I definitely trust in my own talent enough that I don't need to do more than a preliminary pass here yeah I'm sure this is excellent
yeah and he's out of that kind of other successful he isn't his all-time best-selling novel is a prayer for own meany and in 2000 he won the best adapted screenplay for the cider God
the cider house rules I still wanted to say cedar the cider house rules which was also a book that came out obviously probably in the 80s I don't fucking know um yeah so that's John Irving he he just he seems I mean I feel like
you learn a lot more about him through the writing of the book than anything because it's very obviously a lot of referential stuff to some somewhat stuff he's experienced but made more fantastical or made yeah exaggerated I also just got an overwhelming feeling and I don't know why that I think he's going to listen to this podcast
no he's like over 80 years old I just have a feeling he's the kind of person that will listen to everything that comes out about him I don't know I just feel
forward keeping that in mind yes let's be a little bit more respectful ladies I believe Johnny is listening I don't think he gets it somehow
that what we think I don't think he does but I don't know he's a phone I don't think we're the arbiter of taste that he he probably cares about legacy but I don't think we're a legacy destroying podcast even though I would love to have that power
but I keep working on it yeah yeah certainly certainly we have some work to do he's listening right now I can feel it
yeah well he sounds exhausting by this book this book makes him sound exhausting okay so let's just jump in the hotel
no he sure we got it's it follows mainly the Barry family we have John Barry who's the the main the
character that's who we're reading everything from he is the third oldest kid he has an older sister
franny Barry who he wants to do he gets what it's reciprocal yeah don't worry that's it's totally yeah it's totally
cool Frank Barry his oldest brother then he has a younger sister Lily and a younger brother who they call egg I don't know his real name
I also didn't know John's name for like a good portion of the book I don't know yeah that was on me but I just kept
being like who is talking right parents are winning Mary and then Iowa Bob is the grandfather that's
like the main family there's a lot of other characters will get into but it starts out basically
with the kids they're all like hanging out and then they're talking about how the parents met
and so we're going back in time so it's a story told second hand it's like the story of my parents
meeting that was told to me and now I'm telling it to you which is a very passive way I think to tell
a story and my attitude as I read it was like I don't care but fine if this is what we're doing is
what we're doing and all here a whole book about the fucking parents but it's not is the parents love
story and then it fast forwards to these horrible children and it's so obnoxious and it but like
while they're telling the story I feel like you're in or it inner cuts a little bit with the kids
talking about it and they're all like they're super sexual and found out and I'm just like what is
the what is this book going what is the point of it the only thing I'm getting is that they're like
weirdly sexual and that ended up being pivotal to the book but at the time I was just like this is
what it also made the love story so depressing to be like they were young and falling in love
and then cuts to like the future with the kids being like talk about when you first had sex and
or sex and like these obnoxious little brats it's like that's the result of this beautiful
world it's hard for me to imagine that because it's not how I would interact with my parents
it's actually like 13 and 14 and Lily was doing it the most and she was even younger than 13 or 14
she was like a little she's the second youngest and it actually was I thought like suggestive
that like she had maybe been abused honestly that was my first thought I was like why is this little
girl so hyper sexualized and then it's just like all the characters in the book are
yeah it's yeah our hyper sexualized and like a sex sales angle like yeah but it wasn't because it
all say yeah but it don't look like rape and stuff so it wasn't even like let's fun sex it wasn't fun
sex no it was like disturbing the like too bad really bad kinds of sad I mean it's not even sex but
incest and rape like yeah let's get a book in one book and let's hit it a bunch of times let's
hit them both a bunch of times that's what the book was doing but you know honestly what are you
gonna say I don't want to say you can't cover those topics like I think it's and I think some things
in this book were covered are probably very well especially for the time like early 1980s I would say
like a but I yeah I mean here's the thing though sure maybe you could cover one of them in a book
but I think that is enough for a whole book I agree multiple rapes multiple incest a plain crash that
kills off members of the family yeah really need them in the yeah it was pretty much we're done with
them we were done with the opening of a hotel in Vienna yeah the mom is barely a character anyway
so let's just go and no one even really cares that much yes one of them grows up to become a famous
author it's like any one of these things look at Augustine burrows like he'll make a book out of like
the way his parents cooked bacon it's like great that's a whole book now yeah that's what John
Irving needs to take a little page John Irving likes to shove a lot in um and it is hard to know
what's important when there's so much random shit going on um I will say I know this is kind of
jumping in habit there are few like I guess like set pieces in this book that I really did enjoy
like towards the end you wrote your eyes you did like no I was like I was like I kind of just wanted
this like this one incident to be the book I didn't need to anything else around it that's how I
felt like I was like oh this was fun when they um exact revenge on the rapist and do the bear like
when they the terrorists are bungling trying to bomb a Vienna opera house and even be saying that
out loud is like those are two crazy things those aren't in the same book are they yes they are in
the same book they are in the same book in the same moment in the same book yeah yeah that's
happening simultaneously they're doing a full like costume play reenactment of a rape against
franise rapist uh including a you know full bear suit replica at the same time that the family is
fleeing the hotel which is about to be bombed wait by god not sure I don't think that's the same time
they're in the album the same time okay oh no it's not in the york it's not at all at the same time okay
possibly but they were towards the end of the book they're both towards the end okay that's all
that matters yeah the point is there's too much stuff yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I can't keep it
straight um I also felt like yeah maybe some things you're saying were handled well I don't I don't
really know what in particular but the thing that was tough for me was like there's so much animal
abuse in this book which is probably a big big old trigger for me I hate it and I think it is
intended to be funny like I think that is supposed to be I think the bear that they be quite honest
oh I'm like what was the animal abuse oh my god have may I please page page or their dog is named
sorrow yeah and they say on page four um sitting cross like it on the shabby oriental rug with
our first family dog sorrow who would one day be put to sleep for his terrible farting uh-huh
okay well he was put to but they didn't abuse him but I don't think he was abused though I didn't
like that line okay okay yeah and they do all right all right I just thought I thought I was
like wow I miss something for beings to sneak okay I'm the bad but they regretted instantly they were
regretted instantly okay that's not okay you can't be abused they were like a little bit of time
one big abuse thing but they were nice to they were nice to when it was alive okay I would think
living a life of being beaten every day might be worse then being murdered because you farted
okay he was all he lived a long time he lived a long life okay he was an all-over-one
I was a huge mistake that's
I don't have dogs yeah well I would never do that I would never do it I just mean I wouldn't have
I didn't have bad they sort of done the same way it was so unrealistic then it didn't make me
feel like oh this is in the category of animal abuse which is okay well let's talk about the bear
the bear that they make right I thought maybe you were talking about the bear okay and who has
the way of like muscle motorcycle it likes the motorcycle because it's been a
nice and polite the motorcycle that's not really in the book though
I'm gonna call animal welfare and send them to both your homes for a chat right and with Jana I also
I want to just because you started this by being like oh I guess he handled some stuff well about
rape and you were like really critical of it like at the end it ends with them they're turning like a
hotel into like basically a rape like crisis setter to like help women overcome like you don't
think that was like a good I just surprised you were like yeah sure they did good things like okay okay
there was some like and talking about how people handle rapes differently and there were like
the different types of rape because I don't know I thought there was like a lot of interesting
stuff in there about I know it becomes meaningless because of how much other random shit there was
but I did think it was a kind of interesting and at least detailed multifaceted view of in
1980 even to be saying like how common rape is yeah that's true kind of a new thing whether
not a 1980 thing they didn't suggest that it didn't happen they definitely were like it did happen
so that was I guess really woke up yeah they said of them all right yeah
I just have a theory that there was a whole second book a real second book underneath the surface
because this is all told through this perspective of a kid like growing into adulthood I think
the actual stories that they just had horribly abusive parents and they just never mention it in the
book but that's the whole thing just like awful horrible parents so yeah I do think it's my theory
it's the secret book in the book well I think that there was that idea of like the father being
blind before he's actually blind like I guess there's like a negligence there whether yeah I just sort
of assumes everything's fine and concentrates on his other pursuits he certainly yeah he certainly
yeah he certainly like not good to the kids ultimately but they he they turn him into a hero at the
end because of the goofy thing that happens with the you should probably decide so there's gonna
their they own a hotel Vienna it's gonna be a second hotel yeah but it's also called the hotel
New Hampshire yeah because they want the Americans to like it and they rent out a bunch of rooms to
terrorists who are plotting to do a bomb thing then they take the family hostage and like one of you
is gonna have to drive the car but you can't do it for xyz you can't do it for xyz only the blind guy
can do it so the blind guy like pretends he can't see anything and detonates the bomb early so that
no one gets hurt except them yeah the father gets blind from it but yeah then the guy dies he
sacrifices himself he was the true hero are you confused about how this fits in with the other things
you heard yes it's the adventure the berry family yeah it's just all over
the place they're just they're moving they first they get the hotel but in New Hampshire and then
that's not doing well and the dad gets restless and they're like he's finds out he can go to Vienna again
and there's a and so even though the kids are age like 17 16 15 and then like little
they act like yeah yeah to Vienna I want a senior and yeah let's go and he moves to Vienna
it felt like I could not tell what age these kids were oh I agree I agree I kept happy to be like
thinking they were older than being like because so much happens is like that all happened in one year
like the rape and him like needing to bulk up because the sister got raped like that happened in
what six months he still fucking 15 when this is all yeah yeah yeah he bulked up pretty quick for 15
they're like being read to like they some woman reads in the hotel reads them the great
gatsby like they're the fucking neverland kids what you know all together being read to us like you
didn't read the great gatsy in school like you're 16 and 17 the older kids you're seeing quietly
to be read a book I don't trust that they can read to be honest like they I don't believe they've
had any sort of formal education at this point they're just bopping around from hotel to hotel
we don't hear school stuff and and at some point I guess like Frank franny and John who is our
dinner narrator especially when they're in Vienna they're like all older by then like they're
one of he like goes to college we don't hear anything about it you know like it's treated like
it's high school it's like me and franny went to university and then came home for a snack you know
it's how we don't hear anything about it and also but also I'm like well they're full on adults now
why are they still hanging around the hotel I have to like I'd be like I'm done with this but
they have a weird thing where their family six together I don't know I guess the incestuous
brother franny and John who are in love with each other yeah they wanted to be with their
boyfriend girlfriend brother sister so that's why I think they I so weird I forgot now that we're
bringing this up I forgot because I was like I wanted to look up like just I I was like is this
based on any real incestuous relationship or something because it was so weird that I was like
I know incest happens but I've never seen like a like a I didn't there wasn't like a reason why
they became incestuous it wasn't like there was no one else around or they were trapped in an attic
or something just that they like each other I was like I was like I'm sorry but I'm gonna need
something more because this is not enough for me to like okay and you're dealing one with a
brother here yeah so we have to sort of trust you on this trust me on this I have a brother where
you're a part I just don't yeah you don't you would need a reason to be in love with him I would
really you would have to work hard like you'd have to do you there would have to be like nothing I
I just something would have had to fuck them up earlier and I guess that's my theory that's what I'm
saying the parents are bad was it that made them incestuous it bothers me that that was actually to
me the it was both the more the more interesting part of the book because I was like because
in incest itself is just like a what the fuck like it has that aspect of it they were like no what
the hell like to kind of keep you reading but like the way it resolved I was like
what but that's
what do you point out go ahead say we're in channel it but that's just what's frustrating about the
whole book is there is no point and I think it doesn't even know what kind of book it wants to be I
think it's like I think John Irving was like I'm writing a comedy but that it's yeah yeah not really
funny it's like maybe a little bit quirky at times and then it's just like horrifying and at the end
of the day I'm just like why why did I experience this is funny I actually wrote really early on I
wrote okay it's funny not like laugh out loud but like amusing right like it feels like he maybe
thinks he's sort of a Wes Anderson type I know yeah yeah but you want it you want it for me and
tell family you do want it to wrap up you want to be like all right it was amusing enough to I was
like allowing for more uh going off course because you're like all right I'll let you do this take
me somewhere weird because I'm trusting that in the end it'll all work out or make sense but it did
not really I mean like he gave an ending sure but it was just like yeah I don't feel like any of it
like white earned the word yeah stopped okay eventually we have to maybe should take another let's
take another quick commercial break and then I just have one quick was Anderson thing that I'm sure
so I want to hear it I would be oldest brother being really into uniforms and like dressing like a
bell hop and like loving his band uniform is very felt very Wes Anderson but it wasn't charming yeah
just like well what's wrong with him as opposed and he's gay that was what that's right yeah which
it ends up being like he's gay so I can just write him as weird as I want that's what gay is this is how
I guess they're all weird so it didn't feel homophobic they were all fucking weird I don't know okay
all right we'll be right back
Claire I'm so glad you say the you said the Wes Anderson thing because I was thinking that the whole
book this feels like a less fun Wes Anderson movie or like a first draft Wes Anderson yeah like someone
who copied him yeah before and then like yeah and then like got it was like all of my own has been
on it all this horror shit happens it isn't obviously we've been back I just oh yeah but yeah you're
right it is it's all very quirky and like I charmless though yeah like it's too much it is too much
soy day Chanel it's quirky and yet it anger you I needed I needed step to be a little more weighted
in reality or like feel a little more purposeful in some way um I want to like focus on like it's
because like this is all going all over the place I feel like we should just focus on like some
through lines and talk them through as it is like being like this is the entire book can we talk
about the incest oh sorry we talked about the incest I'd like to start with the rape I'd like to
say we have to do that so bit more chronological okay all right five events that let up to it
sure we can start with the rape so it starts out just explaining that like these kids are obnoxious
so they buy the families bought this hotel the electricity is off so the chill these horrible little
breaths turned on all the lights so that when the electricity is turned on the whole hotel will light
up and it would be so exciting uh how do we night it happens the security guard the police who's
guarding it is such a fright he has a heart attack fine there's no way to get him help this is the
kind of so we're talking about yeah the children these horrible children out of guilt are like we'll
run up to the school and get like the school security or whatever the fun the school ambulance I
think they want to get the school ambulance who understands prep school with the school way
you know that's for sure to get um then they okay so we have a big thing with lots of feelings
guilt you know like this should be big let's talk about that this they run up it's Halloween night
so the football team traps them and rapes the sister uh and it's like wait but something okay well
now the book's about this yeah so it's already died but now there's a rape and I found a
study about Halloween which was great and they just merged in the entire day trying to run it
and it was like also so they trapped John in a net and the guy who's in charge of guarding John he
was like please you have to help they're gonna rape her and it takes this kid so long to figure out who
to like run and get and go help but the kid who he gets to help is like a big guy on the football team
he's black and he runs a program called the black arm of the law and they go out protect women
they like just last week caught someone who's flashing women it's like why did it take him
that long to figure out who to get it's like there's a vigilante group in charge of protecting women
and he's like nobody can help nothing can be done for a bad time until it's like
all right I'm in a vigilante group a flyer flutters by him in a way
so they get this guy and he comes and like doesn't even beat up the rapist he just takes them to
the principal's office it's kind of an example and then of course well actually you know what not
of course they they do actually get kicked out of the school which I was afraid that wasn't even
gonna happen because of the time so yeah but she but the big thing is franny does not want to
will not like say she was sexually assaulted it's you know how she's it's how she's dealing with it
it's unclear also how much nuance the author put into like she's troubled but but expressing it in
this like kind of closed off way or if it did feel a little like it happened and then we did move on
completely passed it not to be worried about again in this book I think they okay I think they
did deal with it I I do think it was more dull with in depth than that though Johnna because
well first of all it starts out with what junior Jones tells her which is something about like
you know they didn't get you like it's not that was beautiful and it was like something really
nice and then so she didn't get the use that's inside side you so she just decides like that
wasn't essentially tear her she translates that like okay well they didn't I wasn't raped I didn't have
sex and she doesn't she's obviously won't a junior Jones is the black guy is the vigilante they start
dating is chipper dove yeah chipper doff captain of the football team um best she am in the book she
eventually starts dating junior Jones but she want to sex with him a lot because she's like
obviously still dealing with this rape stuff and then then when they end up going to Vienna she meets
another just a fucking saying a woman who dresses like a bear um who was also a stick with us
but she deals with it differently and at the time she's like mad because franny's not dealing with
rape the same way she thinks she should be dealing with a rape but but like eventually she realizes
you know everyone deals with it differently but um yeah like when they deal yeah god when they
introduce that bear character so it was like is friend of the darellons oh sorry no I don't remember
what you're talking about oh I thought she because she they say she graduated from Sarah Lauren so
so fucking funny so like I guess I wasn't paying that much attention but all I knew was like the
bear trainer was like finally I have a smart bear yeah and then they go and meet her and suddenly
the bear was like responding and talking like a person I was like yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
it's like is it animatronic like is that I wasn't paying attention or no no he was praying like that
it was really like that but you were like so I was like oh is this an now a magical book I thought I
because we read the book were like the dog acts like a human I was like oh my god it's happening again
I really just keep happening but actually talking about the new bear we've really
briefed past the first bear that was so abused but we never even said his name his name was
state of name and he used to say the most adorable thing he's the best character in the book when he
would get a little bit mad he would say Earl Earl that is cute like the man saying Earl so when
the parents are falling in love in the flashback at the hotel where the parents work the air is a
bear act and they really befriend the man who trains the bear yeah and then mother takes it yeah
buys it or something the bear and then does the act around the states to raise money to go to Harvard
because he goes to Harvard even though it was a Harvard well didn't even have a nice
like that yeah yeah yeah I guess shows you any idiot can get in the heart I thought that that part
I kind of like the dads the way so the original bear trainer I forget what he had the bear do
but the dad had he wrote a motorcycle badly the dad did a little sketch comedy with the bear
which I liked yeah it was funny yeah yeah he like had the bear dress up in a suit and the
and go for a job interview and stuff and then the person didn't understand it was really a bear
good little sketch and it just made it all the more depressing that this guy who did this nice
comedy in his youth now I have to take care of all these braddy kids yeah what I think that's funny
getting such a good all he wants to do is start out tell them like why you you had some you'd something
you could have you had a creative yeah you spirit that you're doing this um but you got a sub-sets
with god damn hotel so that was the first one there's the first bear thank you okay thank you
forgiving state domain who's do okay so then the bear trainer writes as it's um
for the bear trainer writes to him his name is Freud or they call him Freud for some reason
and like everything else is from austria and then he writes them is like I heard your hotel is
failing in an answering launch gum start one in austria with me come I have one and it's yeah I need
your help wait that is really funny hey I heard your hotel is failing why don't you open another one
you mean I'd be paraphrasing yeah yeah he already had one but and he was like uh I don't know
whatever it was convoluted they didn't have um meanwhile john the narrator starts sleeping with a
whore who's yeah yeah sex worker sorry she's a housekeeper who also she's a housekeeper
clear ronda ray ronda ray well he pays her for sex john uh yeah she's a housekeeper who had a room
that they were like why does she need a room during the day well she needs it because she
is also a sex worker and but there was a funny part where when they're moving to austria and ronda
ray or they find out prostitutions like legal where they're going but ronda ray finds out that it's
like not legal the states she was like really I don't know surprise about it she's pissed off I just
thought that was kind of funny um but yeah there's also something I don't you know what I don't
I'm not even I don't even go into most other stuff but it's also so meaningless and all during this
there's this weird stuff where the john and franta are constantly flirting and it's weird it's like
what is going on yeah like she's into him having sex with a sex worker and like listen
she listens in the hotel as a weird don't worry about why intercom system is she can listen in
and uh she does oh and by the nose and he knows yeah and the sex worker by the way is not like john
a fellow child in case you're wondering she is a fully adult woman uh which is you know I guess also
another the stirrier yeah well how about when they have a new year's party in junior john's
tricks of sister into going with john and she's 28 and he's 15 still oh yeah he's de-aging at this point
and the girls like I'm too old to do anything with you and then later she's like let's practice
kissing on each other and they do and they do and john learns how to be a good kisser
for franny um can we talk about it i think so i really feel that we have but i'm willing to talk more
if it's that okay let me just catch people i really quick go to vienna live and live um do the the
terrorist thing happens come back uh the littlest girl gets a book deal and they come back to
New York they don't own any hotels anymore and all this time again they're like oh they they
they realize in vienna oh we want to do each other oh but we shouldn't i think they make out once in
vienna or something it's like oh okay um and then they're in New York and they're like wow this
is a real problem then we want to fuck and then suddenly franny's got an idea and she's like i know
what we'll do we'll fuck and she just tells him and he comes like running and then they just like
the plan is literally running the plan is i guess that they fuck so much that it hurts and then
they don't want to do it ever again you just need to get it out of your system it's like smoking a
carton of uh uh uh cigarettes incest is like smoking a carton of cigarettes but like it doesn't make
any sense because again smoking carton that's like addictive i don't think you just i i don't i don't
i don't know that smoking a carton of cigarettes works yeah i don't know because but i can
just kind of get it got me really i just i was like what the fuck there's no how would that get you
over someone and how is that better it was upsetting and i didn't understand and it's not good
it's not a solution because you did incest a bunch of times like yeah just
just like they talk to the right minutes and they didn't talk they didn't tell anyone about it like
i don't know so fucked up that i was like this cannot be the this was somehow the resolution of
it made them not in love with each other anymore to have i didn't understand it at all they were sore
and didn't like it i don't understand it's like symbolism what is the symbolism like i'm just like
i just on any level i don't understand it i don't think it could be similar i don't i feel like
it had to be because i was like as it is it doesn't literally make sense it doesn't literally make sense
i do think that the that john everyone was trying to go for like weird metaphors and symbolism
throughout the book i would say or it's like what allusions does the book bake that yeah tropes is
it keep coming back to so that does happen a lot yeah what do i think that's be a lot i don't
sorrow the dog is like oh the dog's name is sorrow and so they like to say things like sorrow floats
yeah yeah yeah corpse of the dog floats at one point thank you john Irving and uh i just don't see
how the the incest thing is in could be an illusion i'm trying i'm trying yeah the different
hotels are like the different i think like adolescents is one hotel them and like those 20s is one
hotel and then the last hotel you already didn't wow yeah that's that's totally i think i'm blessed to tell
the incest hotel the last hotel the incest itter there's that hotel they don't and then the last
hotel's the one they own i don't know i'm look i'm trying to see i just quickly was like what does
incest represent in hotel to be i'm sure um i don't not obvious to me right now
if if anything i would say it is the main plot point of the book which uh there you go if that
tells you should i pick up hotel new hamstring give it a try well if that's what your what's the
my plot point but not the only thing you know yeah but there's so much more i just yeah yeah i just
i didn't find the resolution i found the resolution disturbing and not um
yeah i didn't like it i didn't like it and it was and it was not like why did that result reality or
how humans react to that and they were just like laughing about it later they're like aha it hurt
and then they're like i don't love you anymore and then somehow then after that she marries
junior Jones which is like good okay obviously they were supposed to be together the whole time
which okay wait quick aside junior Jones um he gets recruited to play football in college where
did he go to college guys oh that's why you're talking like that Penn State let's go
that's not Penn State slow consera let's go we are Penn State let's go i think you can say that
we are i think there's one thing is it is they say we are whatever it's all right i had to say
anyway she becomes somehow so she franny for some reason becomes acts in the movie version of the
book that Lily sold about their life story and franny becomes like a famous movie actress and she
marries junior Jones i'm just like what is that's a thing she goes from victim per incest famous actress
in the movie yeah that's such a wild jump but it wasn't like oh she was always acting and doing stuff
and so it makes sense that this is where her life would go it just was like that's where she ended up
yeah i mean i'm assuming that there's a lot of like fairy tale ending in this book and by fairy tale
I just mean like after the suicide of the sister it's like oh we didn't talk about that Lily
kills herself which is off the author and she says is because she's too short
is that true i think it's because she could never write well enough like she is a bad writer
yeah i think it was the writer the writer yeah okay i knew the short thing was gonna come up i knew
the short thing was gonna come up basically she couldn't live a life that short
where uh this is ridiculous this is ridiculous the whole thing is ridiculous she um is she must be a
is she was a little person like the right i don't think that's i don't know i don't know i don't
like you know but i don't know well not that you are but i think that is she must she's dwarfism
or something like there's something i i'm the and the doctor more or less tells them that
but they serve denying it and she spends a lot of time and they're like she just got to grow more
eat more yeah you know that's tough to hear probably yeah yeah yeah but she becomes a writer
it's on you you know it's your fault uh oh i thought you were speaking directly to me
yeah yeah yeah and in many ways i am but after that um oh also so the bear the second bear that is the
other the woman from sarah lorance who is raped and was hiding as a bear in Vienna
what is her fucking name hiding as a bear suzy i think living as a bear um suzy suzy and john eventually
get together and get married and they opened the rape crisis thing at the last hotel in hampshire
which is actually in is it in main oh i don't know i can't remember i don't know somewhere like the
father always wanted and they wouldn't sell it to him because he's Jewish or something and then they
had enough money and they bought the place and he they pretend it's a hotel but it's not really
it's really just a rape crisis what's john got okay i guess who killed themselves because they were too
short i'm deaf okay no john is okay you're she left to know it was here's the it says she left a serious
suicide note sorry said the note just not big enough that isn't in reference to this oh my god
she's trying to be poetic yeah she's trying to be poetic she's a writer she's this kind of writer
that isn't very good she also referred to her writing throughout the book as trying to grow yeah
obviously right i guess it's kind of open to interpretation oh my god okay she didn't really
struggle with being short i know this is she didn't struggle with being short does it
want to feel that way who cares if i have dwarfism i'm a good i'm a good kid that was a quote from her
i know that's a scary thing to like read and think about so i think we'll just let you interpret it however
you want to interpret it i'm gonna interpret it literally i think as as the i understand is a
enough that you have to take that way by the way i'm five nine of which is galooch i think i think i
think i'm gonna have a bite for a model basically so wow i want to myself a model all right i heard
that's funny because i heard the freak show is in town looking for talent at least i can reach all the
cups in my house Clara can you do that yeah special shells special ceiling health shelves built
your baby's almost taller than you already that's true how many inches is she she's 30 and a half
inches and how tall are you how many inches are you 60 60 so she is one year old she is more than
half of your height okay well they grow a lot in the first year now don't they okay so imagine she
grows another 30 inches at two another 30 inches oh imagining it imagining it is cute actually
baby giant baby giant all right guys uh what's sick i don't know it should we take it
to take it this is a shorty no offense i mean it's a long goodbye oh um we didn't do the judge
a book by its cover section but i had something to say about the cover all right sure go ahead um it's a
small thing um but my cover has a little sign on the side that says storage which i thought was a
really funny way for the library to neg this book it's a real leg it's a real that's cool it's like
the i've also gotten some that's a assignment only take a photo of that johnna take a photo of storage is
cool yeah no this is the best this is the best uh of this segment i've ever had oh thank you and that's
it it's over it does not feel good yeah that's it back to you back to whatever you want to say okay
what do i want to say what do i want to say um when the woman is pretending to be a bear in a
bear suit she puts on shows for the hotel guests i guess and people think she's really bear
and she also acts as security to the sex workers in the hotel and Vienna as a bear and people it's
such a good costume and actually people actually think she's a bear in the middle of austria or
Vienna or whatever yeah yeah yeah that's a good costume that's a good costume and i i don't know
is she a baby bear bears are be like okay this is stupid it's hard because i when i looked at the trailer
for the movie i was like yeah you're not gonna be able to do it because i immediately see that bear
and i know that's not a real bear so in the book they really will have one have you believe that
it was very a very accurate bear yeah i did like when they had her like when she the bear
suzy the bear moved to new york and lived in granite village and joined some like weird acting community
yeah i thought that was pretty i cool and accurate uh right right and then that's when they eventually do
the the revenge rape uh oh we haven't talked about the revenge rape so on the night of the incest
john is going home and he's like how my private part is hurt and uh uh she runs into franny's
rapist who now lives in new york i guess or is there i don't remember what uh yes she live i don't
remember yeah he runs into him on the street and he's like yee why haven't you called franny
because franny's been like corresponding with him i guess it's how she's dealing with the rapist
pretending that they had a relationship and so she's been writing to him all this time and chipper
dove has never responded and so chipper dove the rapist has never responded and john tells him
instead of like beating him up he's like chipper you need to contact franny
then you also call them a rapist in front of his girlfriend okay yes but it was weird it's kind of
weak uh but then chipper dove does contact her and it scares her to death like and and john never
admits he never it's like i told him to call you yeah uh and so then when she's scared to death
she's like i want to scare him back and uh lili is still alive at this point and reads a play
in which it's sort of like an immersive play for chipper dove
he will people pay good money for what chipper dove got for free certainly
sort of asleep no more
how cool you get pulled into a certain room you're really part of the experience
you think a bear is gonna rape you but in the end he's just theater
it was really weird yeah they all leaned into their weirdness for this one
yeah yeah it was certainly was and the for i because i listened to audio book part of this
and it was i mean like you know i guess he he really also maybe enhanced the weird i don't know
maybe it was just as weird on the page i can't tell but i was audio it was it was wild it was like
frank was jumping on the bed screaming about being homosexual
fucking a puddle maybe which he he is by the way yeah right but why that's part of it i guess to me
chipper think frank was gonna rape him yeah yeah yeah i mean he's looking he's gonna rape me
thought the girls were gonna rape him and they were like now little did he know it's gonna be a
bear bear but then instead they're like sand seen let this be a warning to you
chipper don't rape but it was i really did enjoy that scene because it was so god damn goofy that i
was just like i just liked the idea of somebody writing all that fucking out you know
that's like everyone committing to it it was just so i don't know i i i i thought that was
funny and goofy i also that's why i said i also really like the Vienna scene where they were like
fun well i maybe it's because these are just the scenes where something actually fucking happened
is also maybe it but um in Vienna when the terrorists they were like a bunch of communists
that were gonna blow up the Vienna Opera House and Claire talked about they got the blind
person to drive but you know they were not college educated it was you know even self-taught
terrorists i felt like they came they also did porn or like had a porn collection it was goofy it
was weird i like that those things but uh yeah just to say what i liked yeah yeah yeah this is like
there's a whole lot you like not the end so i i think part of something that there's a disconnect
from like this sort of quirky family that's in it together and the beginning of the book when
they're very young yeah because they don't seem to pretty goodly be in it together except for
John and Franny yeah i agree you know they're like they all sort of hate Frank yeah they don't i think
they like lily i did feel like they don't talk to lily they're always screaming at egg like it was
just the two of them but then all of a sudden it's like oh were this we stick together yeah yeah
yeah we stick together we're we have each other it's like where did that come from i've actually
feels so like real family to me it's just like wait i think they hate it each other you have to
talk to your brother in like four years we're very actually we're very close okay fine maybe
i just don't understand family when i say i hate somewhere i hate them really yeah could you say
that i'm not i guess not always i guess when families concerned okay okay with me it's a joke it's a
joke yeah no i don't mean oh that was just that was like that is nothing to do with those loose talk
the end of you were being even on a me that's fighting back yeah i just and
you just made me really sad and like self-conscious you know i'm just like i seem like a you know a problem
okay there's another weird thing that i thought was weird that happened at the end
um so at the end junior and franier together and suzy and john are together and they suzy and john
want a baby but i guess they can't have one or they've been trying to do some of them uh john does want
to be right but then franny and junior get pregnant but they don't want the baby and she's like
i'll have it for you oh i didn't i think and then they're like sargacy sarah but it's what happened
yeah at the end and they're like yeah and then they're like yeah we'll take the baby and that was
like the happy one day miss that yeah well it was weird i thought it was weird that is weird
i just thought he was excited to like be an uncle no they were like literally like i'm gonna
you're gonna raise the baby we're gonna give you this baby i thought i was so straight
when franny and junior john's want a baby i don't know they just didn't want one
probably probably things a lot of work yes they had a dink lifestyle they wanted to maintain
yeah she was an actress she was living they were living the big life i don't know
fucking weird i thought it was so weird it was like this weird franny in him that like oh he gets to
raise her baby but they he gets to raise his in her vagina and also we didn't mention that
suzy hooked up with franny and then gets where yeah yeah yeah that's fucking weird oh cuz suzy
that's the other thing is like suzy says that she is a lesbian and i believe her actually
yeah they're really not know why she ended up with johnny that was weird that's right
right kind of about that yeah and then you know it's just another one of those like it's just like
the author wanted it to happen and so he wrote it and it happened and we don't know why i would have
been fine if they were like friendship partners but like it was weird that they were like right if they
didn't agree man yeah yeah but to me it was like what is yeah i agree i didn't like that they were
like now she's not right yeah but wow this is i feel like we've done everything i think we've nailed
everything on this book nothing else should we take a quick commercial break let's take a
quick commercial break yeah i'm gonna look up john Irving and see if he's attractive while we do all
right we'll be right back with whether john Irving is attractive
interesting haven't decided if he's attractive or not he's not anything
he's always pictures are posing oh he's a waitlifter i guess we knew that because he's got some tattoos
it's neither here nor there
hmm he scares me i'm gonna leave it at that
he has a waitlifter he still has muscles and he's 80
mm-hmm so he is and this is a term i recently learned a zadi
is that accurate oh my god it is a gray-haired mussely daddy man obviously we've been back because
we've been talking you've been hearing this talk um do you are you done talking about what john
Irving looks like or yeah okay you guys are not think he's attractive okay now even when he was young
yes but i think there's something interesting about the way he looks but i would agree with you
Clara and i've seen some i see a few yeah there's something there that's a little bit you know
what he's a wrestler so you know he's got he's he's got a good body like i'm on core i'm not
i'm not gonna hate okay he has a facebook page okay 1449 thousand followers which is not that many
oh should we post link to this episode in there i think we should because his first post here is
i recently had the chance to speak with zibi ohen's host of the podcast moms don't have time to read
books yeah Clara that's why i'm telling you he's fucking listening to that he is a podcast guy oh my god
i knew it look it'll be really exciting we have this all right and now time for five star reviews
from good reads i probably read this ten times now i went through a john Irving phase and i od
about halfway through this is one of my favorite books it would be desert island number three but
it's a little too sad i don't think it could be a good idea to isolate myself with it on an island
and read again and again for eternity that said it's Irving at his best anyone who could take
family involved in insist and abuse and prostitution and suicide and still somehow make you love them
and identify with them is a pretty fantastic writer it's sad even painful so i often think about
picking it up but don't it takes a certain mindset that everyone should read it once five stars
well i guess i just wish for Kate was that a name yeah um i wish for her to find happier books
um kody says on display are typical Irvingisms bears new englid private schools Vienna prostitution
sexual awakening sexual experimentation shocking deaths wacky situations it's john Irving he certainly
is not for everyone but for his fans in this hotel can be found familiar pleasures five stars
bears and this is wild to me i actually want to read another john every okay so we're talking
on how this is all over the place he if if bears new england private schools Vienna prostitution
sexual awakening shock if these are all in like all his books it's like just pick just do one per
book i don't it's wild right bake this one make the cider book the bear book i think a bear
breaks into a cider fact we don't need to see a bite us and soons it's a it's a 1980s cocaine bear
it's a hit i'm telling you yeah yeah yeah good one good one we should do that um yeah just people
fucking really like this uh oh and said laugh out loud funny fatalistic gritty fairy taleist macabre
all apply i would recommend one of Irving's big three prior reading this if you never been exposed
to a spoilerly storytelling okay well i obviously didn't do that his big three apparently are
only meanie garb or cider house rules okay um thank you to monica for a wonderful valentines day gift
five stars whoa that is sister do you think i asked to be you know what i have to say i haven't
heard the word macabre used in years and it was wonderful to hear it again i love that i'm gonna start
using it every day yeah okay i'm feeling really joyful right now i'm high on the reveal all right all right
ready to go into our um hate rights hate rights yes i'm ready all right okay i started this book and i
wanted to love it i i was thinking i am going to love this this feels like a a me book there's an animal
there's multiple animals uh and it's it's written in a pretty fun and quirky way like it it bounces
along that's all i could say really good names too coach iowa bob the grandpa chipper dove lots of fun
details i was like let's go and unfortunately feel that the animal abuse in the book
touch me out of it although no one else seems to agree and some people even said that they found
the routine charming and comical he didn't abuse the bear the dad didn't abuse the bear
sorry secondly i have ten points i'm gonna make all of them okay great no i just i didn't know whether
this book wanted to be a coming of age story or just a sort of comical like tale of this family
or something sadder and darker i guess it was all of the above but it i i felt like it took me on a
journey of pain without any point and i like my pain to have a pleasure to it i like my pain to
have a purpose i you know when i read water ship down it is hard because the bunnies do get injured
and some even die but ultimately i i'm left feeling feeling something okay so you give it
four out of five are you fucking kidding this is because the author is listening in your opinion i do
i do know that this Irving is listening so i am scared to go lower than a four but also i do
i think it's well written i do think it is fairly compellingly written even though i thought it was
meandering four out of five yeah clear that's why i said all right okay please be respectful in your
review okay let's see right okay so it's not written terribly like john o' saying a
john o'ring can paint a picture with his words he just painted a lot of pictures and i didn't like
the subject of book one out of five length length knocks it down the one out of five okay okay um so i
guess yeah like i did know some of the things you've been hearing um for me uh there were definitely
parts of this book that were five out of five for me there were like sections that i thought were
really fun i liked overall i liked the writing um i definitely started this book and i don't know
maybe i texted john or i can't remember where i said but maybe i didn't maybe it was just in my head
but i felt like at the beginning i was just like this this type of book couldn't come out anymore
and have be successful it didn't feel like it feels like we don't it took so long to get to the point
which was even vague once we got there yeah that i was like i can't imagine this being successful now
but then part of that made me sad a little bit because i'm like oh is this because we're all like
tick-tock-addled you know blah blah blah don't have patience or whatever that being said um i was in
a huge fan of the weird the fairy tale ending and like what were the takeaways with the incest
uh really disturbed me i'm gonna i'm also gonna give it a four out of five though
yeah believeable this is a length not knock it down for i'm gonna knock it down but yeah i could
like knock it down because i only lost one point from you Sarah i loved it except for the length
half a point and then i'll play a point for the like it didn't come together
and clear let's keep in mind this is someone's art okay the game is gonna be nasty about it someone
what's really hard on us and it might not be for everyone but you know it was we can't
respect it i honestly want to read one of the Irving books that people say is good
it was another nineteen hours evident good another nineteen hours i'm scared you want to read
the cedar house with me sure yeah i would love to let's all go search cedar house in the library
and check out whatever that book is well considering the new library system is probably gonna be
like shouting into a tin can instead of having a nice look up that i can use on my computer
and order it to my local library that might and then if somebody go down into storage and do
go away the story clear blow the dust off the book yeah yeah yeah clear do you want to do a
imagined review for that Sabrina would give had she read and been on the
10 10 I love everything clear hate no no I don't know it's Sabrina I think Sabrina would have made it
would hate I think she would have hated it people don't act like people in the book
she's never seemed to be a fan of incest i don't think i don't think there's like a character she'd
see herself in except maybe franny somewhat that everyone like think she's so beautiful she might
like franny sorry sorry sorry for no reason yeah totally all right all right okay okay all right so i
know and she doesn't hate everything i like it's just the way he seems on a podcast because she likes
the books the most i hate the books the most but i think i'm just the more honest and more
like Sabrina you know john Irving might be listening but Sabrina definitely
and i want to say to mr Irving and to miss bjordan um you know ultimately even if your name is not
mentioned in with the greatest love it is still publicity and all publicity is good
oh that's so nice so the fact that we're even talking about this book which is nine on
50 years old yeah paddain heart of it before what did you look at the book go um all right guys you
want to do little fucker of the cast yeah i've been ready for a long time will we know what john should
do oh do we yeah i just from that but it's yeah it's you went on the attack because you were
attacking me well it's you because i thought if i certainly thought you both would be my allies
against animal abuse but you went out of your way to say how funny and comical the bear routine was
and how much you loved it and then later on in the episode sarah said she imagined sending me a text
and i thought that was really nice of her to think of sending me a text even though she wasn't sending
but it was really nice to be thought of you didn't you never think of sending me something and not doing it
clear yeah those are the reasons it's not because they called you an oh no no i had a
little bit i'm glad that that's not way gone you because they felt like maybe that was too much but
no no no no it wasn't it wasn't okay great it's just i was going for Mach sympathy yeah i know i'm
i know i know i'm beautiful don't worry Clara okay uh who do i want to be asshole of the guest um
johnna pure retaliation i know and that's my reasoning that's all i have to say all right this is hard um
because you know i don't want to it's only so hard when this happens it's johnna so often
well maybe she should look at her behavior
like really the animal abuse thing was really funny i just like seem to say it seems like more
than usual johnna you like read this book or like skimmed it because you were like this happened
at the same time oh i forgot it all right look towards the end yeah we needed to just finish okay
but you still spoke confidently about stuff you know you've had thought it's true okay i feel
elicine anyway i don't want to be i'd like to be invisible at this time yeah okay i have to do johnna
i guess i just talk about john so it's johnna yeah you don't even have any reasons for it to be clear
come on yeah look Clara little read even after your thoughtful almost text the nice things i know i
know what's really interesting well yeah Clara yeah yeah yeah i mean obviously yeah no it's johnna all
right johnna little fucker the class congratulations um you guys we are mean book club mean book club
on all the socials please join our patreon become a patron of the mean arts help us pick our next
season season 16 please don't recommend books this long for the love of god please also let us know
if it's in your time's best seller because we all we often have to look it up we get excited about a
book and we look it up and it's not a it's not in your time's best seller and that's mean yeah that's
the tease mean it makes us so sad um also join patreon because you get to send us money and you get a bonus
episode so that's too nice to write the book is the bonus episode the other stuff comes and goes but
the bonus episode you will get every season and we're recording it we've recorded it actually you've
heard it already at this point you've heard it long ago so if you're not a patreon maybe become a
patron so you can go listen to some of them old bonus episodes get some boners
so can I just call them a bluer that's the real one all right but we're gonna take a break we'll
be back with absolutely season 16 we'll let you know the reading list oh my god we'll miss you guys
we'll miss you so much we will we really well Sarah said it in a fake way but we will we we will you're
all we have yeah we need the breaks because of the reading books not because you keep passing the
open windows guys oh that's from the book you wouldn't understand kind of an inside joke between us
and the book you know if that was a cool way to end the whole season bye bye
bye
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