1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,880
Okay, so word of advice.

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:11,720
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or, you know, just a separate

3
00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,520
personal phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence

4
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:23,520
of police or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of

5
00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,520
their own criminals.

6
00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:39,160
Yeah, yeah, stay too bad.

7
00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:40,960
Hi, Cassie…?

8
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:46,480
Wait, this is not Cassie. [Record Scratch]

9
00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:47,800
Your turn.

10
00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:49,800
Oh.

11
00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,800
Hi, Caitlyn.

12
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:53,800
Hi, Creepy People.

13
00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:54,800
Helloooo.

14
00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:01,640
I love how you automatically turned your head like we kind of do whenever I do the, "Hello!"

15
00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,120
You just like, you like your body language responded to.

16
00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:06,120
Yeah.

17
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,920
Yeah, you're like, "I'm well-trained."

18
00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:08,920
Yeah.

19
00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:09,920
I was going to say, "How many years of friendship?"

20
00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:10,920
Yeah, too many.

21
00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:11,920
I've been well-trained.

22
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:14,120
Yeah, I'd prefer that we didn't tell people.

23
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:15,120
Oh, okay.

24
00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:16,600
They don't need to know.

25
00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,000
I just met her.

26
00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:19,000
Yeah.

27
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,960
Spring chicken this one.

28
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:23,960
Yes.

29
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:24,960
Oh my gosh.

30
00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:25,960
Okay.

31
00:01:25,960 --> 00:01:28,680
Back, what are we doing here?

32
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:34,520
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides, where

33
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:41,600
we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky, creepy, weird, or maybe

34
00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:51,280
vaguely interesting to us in the Pacific Northwest, the PNW, if you're nasty.

35
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:52,280
She's like appalled.

36
00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,160
She's clutching her pearls.

37
00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,800
So we also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode so that we get a little bit of

38
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,200
deeper insight into our topic for the day.

39
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,200
At the end?

40
00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,200
Yeah.

41
00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:03,200
So stick around if you're into that.

42
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,200
I mean, you have to stick around here either.

43
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,200
I'm out of here.

44
00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:07,200
Mom?

45
00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:08,200
Mom?

46
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,200
I got to go, girl.

47
00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,200
Yeah.

48
00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:11,200
I just remember I have a thing.

49
00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,200
I have a thing.

50
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:13,200
Yeah.

51
00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,200
Exactly.

52
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:15,200
Yeah.

53
00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:16,200
Okay.

54
00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,040
Well, that's our intro.

55
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,040
So should I save this gifty for that?

56
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,040
No, no, no.

57
00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,560
Do it now because it's going to be perfect.

58
00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,240
It's for the theme.

59
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,240
Oh, my.

60
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,240
Okay.

61
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,680
You're going to love it if you don't.

62
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,520
So Andrea asked me, because by the way, this is Andrea.

63
00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,320
I don't even know if we said that.

64
00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,320
No, we never do.

65
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:37,320
No.

66
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:38,320
I just, you know, I just go with it.

67
00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:39,320
You're like, "Hey, Cassie, hey, girl!"

68
00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:40,320
No!

69
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:41,320
How you doing?

70
00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:42,320
I just thought that would be funny.

71
00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,840
And then I got tripped up by my own little switcheroo there.

72
00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:50,840
So Andrea, you asked me, "What's up?"

73
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:55,000
You asked me, "Okay, so I've never guessed it on podcast before.

74
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,800
Am I supposed to bring a gift?"

75
00:02:56,800 --> 00:03:03,520
And I was like, "Yes, I was like, it's not an expectation at all, but to any future guests."

76
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120
You know, I'm just saying this is, this is how to get...

77
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:07,120
I've said a standard.

78
00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,200
And now the bar is pretty high.

79
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,680
So you guys better deliver at this point.

80
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,680
Yeah.

81
00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:13,680
Yeah.

82
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:20,800
I mean, we've had some of our Patreon come on and guess with us and do like a episode

83
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,800
where we were talking about their stories.

84
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:27,960
And we did end up receiving a gift.

85
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,760
I don't know what this is yet, but we were gifted a couple of bottles of wine.

86
00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:38,080
And of course, as you all know, that is always a good gift.

87
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,080
Yes.

88
00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:40,080
Around here.

89
00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,080
Yes.

90
00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,880
We know the true weaknesses around here.

91
00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:44,880
Oh.

92
00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:45,880
Yeah.

93
00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:46,880
Oh.

94
00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:48,880
My goodness.

95
00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,000
Right in time for the holidays.

96
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:57,160
This is how I feel whenever I hear stories about people at like the Black Friday sales,

97
00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:02,560
which as we're recording this, it is Saturday after Thanksgiving.

98
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,360
"Well, that escalated quickly."

99
00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,840
I hope there are going to be a little bit more blood on it, but you know, you can murder

100
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:08,840
someone with a cup, right?

101
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,640
I just feel like that's probably an appropriate amount.

102
00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,560
Just make sure you get like the full experience here.

103
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,440
I feel like a little bit more blood.

104
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,920
And then you would know that the person was murdered, but hey, whatever.

105
00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:20,920
Hey, let's see.

106
00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:21,920
We love a mystery.

107
00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:22,920
Yeah, it's true.

108
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:23,920
It's true.

109
00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:24,920
This is perfect.

110
00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:25,920
This is so cute.

111
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:26,920
Yeah.

112
00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,560
I was like, girl, I have to get something for the podcast.

113
00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,560
And this is about murder.

114
00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:33,560
So it's perfect.

115
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:35,320
Well, that escalated quickly.

116
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,920
I'm not a most foul.

117
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,400
So this is also a story that you kind of picked out.

118
00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,720
Actually, a client told me about it.

119
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:45,720
Yeah.

120
00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:51,440
And then I said, you're the one that suggested this one because I said, hey, on the off chance,

121
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:58,040
if we were to do a really themy episode because anybody who knows us knows we love a theme

122
00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,000
or themy bitches around here.

123
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:09,280
Love anything that's like festive or special edition or the holiday, we just, we got to

124
00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:10,280
have it.

125
00:05:10,280 --> 00:05:12,040
It's a real PSL vibe.

126
00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:13,040
Yeah.

127
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:14,040
Yeah.

128
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,360
And doing one related to your current profession.

129
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,360
Yeah.

130
00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:21,360
In the beauty world.

131
00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:28,720
Well, it's just, it's what's weird to me is that stuff like this is actually not out

132
00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,120
the ordinary.

133
00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,520
Like if you know anything about the hair industry, out of the sound so weird, but there's

134
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:34,520
a lot of drugs.

135
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,720
There's a lot of like, there's a lot of fishy shit that goes on.

136
00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:40,520
So is it really out of the norm?

137
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:41,520
No.

138
00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:42,520
Okay.

139
00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:43,520
That's a good lead in.

140
00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:50,360
So you guys, if you were expecting puppies and kittens for some reason, it's not that day.

141
00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:52,160
Still, still not.

142
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,560
Uh, will not be that.

143
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:55,560
So "anywhosel".

144
00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,560
Well, whosel for Whoville, right?

145
00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:58,560
Oh, yeah.

146
00:05:58,560 --> 00:05:59,560
So you got The Grinch tree.

147
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:00,560
Yeah.

148
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:01,560
But there you go.

149
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,000
Yeah, the little Grinch tree.

150
00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:04,000
Okay.

151
00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,000
All right.

152
00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,000
I'm going to get into it.

153
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,840
Today we delve into a shocking case out of Gladstone, Oregon.

154
00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:14,840
A story that seems almost unbelievable unless you're “un-Andrea".

155
00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:15,840
“un-Andrea".

156
00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:20,040
I was trying to mix a couple of words there.

157
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,040
You know what?

158
00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:22,040
It's okay.

159
00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,040
I like I said, I had to try to anything.

160
00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:27,280
So yeah, but I don't think we need to adopt that.

161
00:06:27,280 --> 00:06:28,280
“un-Andrea".

162
00:06:28,280 --> 00:06:31,520
Because you're uninterested in what I have to say.

163
00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:32,520
Oh my God.

164
00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,640
No, unless you're on Andrea.

165
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:40,400
And you really, this is just another Tuesday for you apparently.

166
00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:41,400
Yes.

167
00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:42,400
Oh, boy.

168
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:50,840
This is a story of Debbie Higbee Benton, a 54-year-old salon owner who was beloved both before and

169
00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:55,080
after her brutal murder in May 2011.

170
00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,160
As investigators dug deeper into her death, the surrounding community would be left shocked

171
00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:03,240
as a wide web of secrets.

172
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:10,600
In a sinister plot involving her estranged spouse, former police sergeant Lynn Edward Benton

173
00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,360
and two accomplices was laid bare.

174
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:19,240
Well, the thing about Gladstone is it's small enough that this would shake things up.

175
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,880
Like this happened in 2011.

176
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,120
People are still talking about it.

177
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,400
That's why when someone's like, did you hear about it?

178
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,320
I'm like, no bitch, I'm not from Gladstone, what you mean.

179
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:30,760
But it's a big deal.

180
00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:31,760
They still talk about it.

181
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:32,760
Oh yeah.

182
00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,840
No, I believe it.

183
00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,200
And I think obviously we'll get into it here.

184
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:44,040
But there's a lot about this case that sort of makes it a little bit more sensational.

185
00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:53,520
Debbie Higbee Benton and Lynn Benton met in 2008 and went on to tie the knot in October

186
00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,680
2010.

187
00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,280
So not married for a long time.

188
00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:59,920
Here for a good time, not a long time.

189
00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:01,560
And actually not a good time.

190
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:04,160
So, oh, I relate to that so well.

191
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,160
Not a so well.

192
00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,640
Then no, don't not.

193
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,640
Yeah.

194
00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:15,840
Another major life changing event, Lynn had reportedly begun transitioning from female

195
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:16,840
to male.

196
00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:23,880
When the couple married in 2010, Lynn had also dropped the E from their birth name Lynne.

197
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:30,880
So Lynn spelled L-Y-N-N versus more female.

198
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,880
The birth name was L-Y-N-N-E.

199
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:34,880
Okay.

200
00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:41,480
So we dropped the E. That's a little bit just strictly like stereotipically speaking.

201
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,720
It's a little bit more of a masculine.

202
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:52,480
I don't know why that is, but it's just sort of the etymology of the name.

203
00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:57,720
They also changed their middle name from Irene to Edward.

204
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,480
Taking the box for male on the marriage license application.

205
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,120
Because I wondered how they were able to get married.

206
00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,720
But the union was legally recognized in the state of Oregon, despite the fact that same

207
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,480
sex marriage hadn't been widely recognized in the US at this point.

208
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,960
There just wasn't a specific or stringent gender verification that was required at the

209
00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,360
time.

210
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:29,960
So I had wondered how the couple was able to get married because this is two biological

211
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,240
females at this point.

212
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,320
Lynn just checked the box for male.

213
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:35,720
It's that simple.

214
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:36,720
Okay.

215
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:44,480
So and we don't do any sort of a verification, which I thought, okay, I guess that makes sense.

216
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:49,160
What kind of resources could we possibly have to be able to, that would just be so?

217
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:52,080
We're going to look up their skirt to see.

218
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:55,000
I mean, it doesn't work like that.

219
00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,000
Oh, okay.

220
00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,000
Yeah, no.

221
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:05,240
I mean, listen, I think maybe starting in January after the, you know, we need a drink for

222
00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:06,240
this much.

223
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,240
Yeah.

224
00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:08,240
We get the little intense.

225
00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,240
Should I need more?

226
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,800
Regardless, the marriage was far from idyllic.

227
00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:16,880
Their relationship quickly began to utterly deteriorate.

228
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:21,040
According to witness statements and court records, ultimately devolving into what sounded

229
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,960
like a potentially very abusive relationship dynamic and living situation.

230
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,480
And it doesn't indicate where the abuse is coming from.

231
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,960
It does.

232
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:32,960
Yeah.

233
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:33,960
So we'll get to that.

234
00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:34,960
Oh, yeah.

235
00:10:34,960 --> 00:10:41,280
Debbie initially supported Lynn's decision to transition, but later expressed concerns

236
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:47,920
or doubts of some kind, though it's not exactly clear what specifically they were, like

237
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,480
what their issue was around the transition.

238
00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:56,720
Though reportedly, whatever the issue was proved significant enough that Debbie asked that

239
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,840
they bring the transition to a stop, which, can you do that?

240
00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:01,840
Can you do that?

241
00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:02,840
That's a lot of stuff.

242
00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:03,840
Yeah.

243
00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:04,840
Can you do that?

244
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,040
Doesn't that, when that mess with you, if you just like, you were, because they're on

245
00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:09,600
hormones, correct?

246
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:15,880
You know, at this point, I would assume I don't have a lot of specifics in terms of,

247
00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:23,960
and there's a good reason for why there's certain information that's not necessarily explicit.

248
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:25,920
We'll get to that too.

249
00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,920
But a lot of that would be considered as like a standard.

250
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:34,240
That would be protected with HIPAA, you know, things like that.

251
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:36,720
I mean, that's protected medical information.

252
00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:45,720
So it's not necessarily completely clear that they were doing hormone therapy or, you know,

253
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:52,240
what those specific treatments or interventions were, but I would imagine so.

254
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,360
By April 2011, tensions had escalated significantly.

255
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,280
This was just weeks prior to Debbie's murder.

256
00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,240
And ultimately, the couple separated.

257
00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:11,720
Debbie moved out, taking with her photographs of bruises she claimed Lynn had inflicted.

258
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:17,800
So Lynn being the one who is transitioning.

259
00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,640
I would not be surprised if part of the issue there was that obviously this is someone

260
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:32,160
who does not want to discontinue the transition and being pressured by a partner to, you know,

261
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,600
at least pause that process.

262
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,680
I could see that there maybe would be some resentment there.

263
00:12:38,680 --> 00:12:42,600
It's not in any way to excuse any of what is about to happen.

264
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:43,960
No, but it makes sense.

265
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,600
I mean, yeah, you could see where obviously that would be something that would cause a rift.

266
00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,200
That would cause tension.

267
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,400
Their split was acrimonious.

268
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,680
Vocab word of the week.

269
00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:05,600
With arguments about finances and Lynn's alleged temper dominating their interactions.

270
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,600
Are there police reports about any of this?

271
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,520
You know, I didn't really find anything prior to their separation.

272
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:22,160
There's not, there's not a lot that indicates there was law enforcement involved in domestic

273
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,120
disputes up to this point.

274
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,040
That being said, obviously, Lynn works in law enforcement.

275
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:30,040
Right.

276
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:37,960
So that makes it really tricky for a victim of DV to be able to get any sort of help or

277
00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:43,720
assistance from exactly the people that should be protecting them.

278
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:44,720
Right.

279
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:50,280
Well, my only thing is like if she's taking pictures with her, obviously it's evidence,

280
00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:56,840
but yeah, I, you would think that instead of just having photos that they would try to

281
00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:01,000
do their due diligence to get some sort of protection against them, because especially

282
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:02,920
if they're in the police force.

283
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:03,920
Yes.

284
00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:09,880
Yeah, it can make it really challenging though, because especially someone who is really

285
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:15,120
well established in their career at this point, and like we've already said, it's a relatively

286
00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:22,320
small jurisdiction when compared to some place, you know, like a more major city like Portland.

287
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:23,320
Right.

288
00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:28,760
There's a lot of people that even if they're not directly in law enforcement, you have relationships

289
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:34,600
with people that are, you know, court reporters or, you know, clerks, different things that

290
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:39,200
it's like you might not be going directly to the cops, but if you're going to seek like

291
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:44,440
an order of protection, that might be something that they learn about because they have relationships

292
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:49,280
with people outside of strictly speaking their direct co-workers.

293
00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:55,400
So I actually have like, I have clients that are in the police force.

294
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,880
And I, one thing I found out was Oregon City specifically.

295
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,200
Now, I can't speak for Gladstone because I didn't sort of say anything.

296
00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,200
Neighboring city though.

297
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,200
Neighboring city.

298
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:11,440
But in Oregon City specifically, they pay the police department pay the news to not report

299
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,600
on anything that involves police specifically.

300
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,040
So in Gladstone, since this does involve a police officer, it may never have even come

301
00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:22,760
to service because the fact that they might have done that as well.

302
00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:23,760
I can't fare for that.

303
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:24,760
I can't speak for Oregon City.

304
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:31,040
I know police have paid to keep anything that involves the police force on the hush on

305
00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:32,040
the deal.

306
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,320
And whether they're paying for it or they're using, you know, political muscle, whatever that

307
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:37,320
would be.

308
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:42,600
I mean, clearly that's not something that we're unaware of as a possibility.

309
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,600
Right.

310
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:44,600
Yeah.

311
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,920
Now that we've got some of our background context out of the way, let's go forward.

312
00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,760
And actually still back in time, you get it.

313
00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:57,200
You're like, yeah, no, no, but that's just what this helps with that.

314
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:58,200
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

315
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,000
You're like, just go with the flow.

316
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:07,560
You know, as long as my cup is overflow, if I'm good with whatever's exactly my way.

317
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:15,760
On that fateful day, May 28, 2011, Debbie Higbee Benton's last client left her salon.

318
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:21,600
The Gladstone Beauty Salon, somewhere between 3.30 and 4 p.m.

319
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:27,080
She had a previously scheduled dinner event later that evening at 6.

320
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,720
But she never showed up.

321
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,800
That's when two of Debbie's friends became concerned.

322
00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:40,440
They were worried enough that they actually contacted a business nearby to see if someone

323
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:43,760
might be able to check on Debbie and assuage their fears.

324
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:47,120
Do they say which one it was?

325
00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,080
It may have in the source material.

326
00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:53,880
I think I didn't include that because it was like, well, it's a neighboring business.

327
00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:54,880
Right.

328
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,720
What difference does it make if it was a gas station, a liquor store?

329
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,080
You know what I mean?

330
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:07,160
There are some details specifically about who they speak with and their response that I

331
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,880
very pointedly did include.

332
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,920
And I think are very interesting.

333
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,480
It's very interesting.

334
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:20,880
I would imagine it's totally possible she could have gotten tied up with a client.

335
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:25,040
You know, I mean, maybe you have a color service or something that runs long.

336
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,040
Right.

337
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,760
Like, every time you see me, it never goes as planned.

338
00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:31,760
Never.

339
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,920
Because you'll be like, I just need a touch up in my no-bitch.

340
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:35,920
You need an entire makeover.

341
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:36,920
Let's do this.

342
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:37,920
Yeah.

343
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:38,920
Start over.

344
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,480
You look like your hairdresser has neglected you.

345
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,600
Never laugh, it's like, I've got to talk to her.

346
00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:46,600
Gosh.

347
00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,760
I mean, I'm so busy too.

348
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,760
That is true.

349
00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:50,760
That is true.

350
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:51,760
But you've never taken advantage.

351
00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:53,040
That's the one thing about Caitlyn.

352
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,640
She never takes advantage.

353
00:17:54,640 --> 00:18:00,400
I've always, even when I was first doing hair, I always came to her and was like, let me do

354
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:01,400
your hair, right?

355
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:02,400
You never took advantage.

356
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,400
You want to took you to the beauty supply store.

357
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,400
You'd always be like, well, are you sure it's okay that I'm here?

358
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:08,400
I'm like, yes.

359
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,000
You're like, well, if it wasn't, they would have kicked you out.

360
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,000
Exactly.

361
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,000
If you're with me, we're good.

362
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,000
No, you've never taken advantage of it.

363
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,000
So, yeah.

364
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,960
Well, I know it takes a lot of time.

365
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,600
We're both busy and it's, yeah, I don't know.

366
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:23,600
It works out.

367
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:24,600
You know what?

368
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,600
It works out.

369
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:26,600
You become a new woman every single time.

370
00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:27,600
Yeah.

371
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,720
You have to have valid ID to prove to Chris that it's really you after I've done a little

372
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:32,720
bit.

373
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:33,720
A little bit.

374
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:34,720
Yeah.

375
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,800
Just like I made you super blonde the last time and you've never been that blonde before.

376
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,560
You've always just wanted to stick to like the level eight and that's like that we're

377
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:42,560
going to platinum.

378
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,560
We're doing it because I said so.

379
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:45,560
And I was like, yes, man.

380
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,000
I was like, I don't know.

381
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,000
Yeah.

382
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,000
And she did.

383
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:51,840
She straddled me.

384
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,840
Well, I was supposed to be kept as secret.

385
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:55,840
No.

386
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:57,840
I'm not about it.

387
00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:58,840
Shh.

388
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,240
I only do that for specific clients.

389
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,240
Okay.

390
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:04,240
Not everyone gets the straddle.

391
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,240
Okay.

392
00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:06,240
I just want to put that out.

393
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:07,240
Not everybody gets the straddle.

394
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:08,240
Yeah.

395
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:09,240
Yeah.

396
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:10,240
You know what?

397
00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,360
They're going to go back and listen to those old episodes that we did where we have the mirror

398
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,160
magic ads in there.

399
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,480
And they're going to be like, Oh, good.

400
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,480
I found the number.

401
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,040
Well, the number doesn't actually work anymore.

402
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,040
Yeah.

403
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:22,040
I'll say that.

404
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,040
Yeah.

405
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,040
There's that.

406
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,040
You guys sorry about that.

407
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:26,040
Sorry about that.

408
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,040
Just my cell phone.

409
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:28,040
Yeah.

410
00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:29,040
It's okay.

411
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,040
Now we can now we can tag you in the show now.

412
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,040
It's so.

413
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:33,040
It's so fancy.

414
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,040
I am.

415
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,040
Yeah.

416
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:36,040
We can play that song.

417
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,040
I'm so.

418
00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,840
Oh, I think if you're singing it and it's just a short clip, it's fine.

419
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:41,840
Yeah.

420
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:43,840
So I'm so fancy.

421
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:44,840
Yeah.

422
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,040
You already know.

423
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:47,840
That's all I know.

424
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:48,840
Yeah.

425
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,240
You're like, see that was fine.

426
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,040
I don't listen to her songs ever.

427
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:55,040
The color.

428
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,040
Oh, my God.

429
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:02,600
But for the record though, if this was us, I'd go fully into panic mode because I know that

430
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:08,320
like if you have a service or you know, people kind of show up late, things like that, like

431
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:10,040
this schedule is kind of fluid.

432
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,560
And like, but you would do that.

433
00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,800
She has to make me text message her as soon as I get home.

434
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:16,800
So I do that to everyone.

435
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:17,800
You would panic.

436
00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:20,840
Caitlyn would be the person that you want to be friends with because she would make sure

437
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,240
you're still alive and breathing.

438
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,240
She's.

439
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,240
Yeah.

440
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:25,240
You're on top of that.

441
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:26,240
Yeah.

442
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,200
I, this is so funny because I did this to my mom.

443
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,280
She was going to go to a friends after she left our house on Thanksgiving.

444
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:38,040
And I was like, okay, I need you to text me when you get there.

445
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,360
And she did.

446
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:45,000
And I thought that I had already like done at least the tap react or something like responded.

447
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,360
And I forgot for like an hour.

448
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:48,360
And then I texted her back.

449
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:49,600
I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.

450
00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:50,600
I saw this.

451
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,120
I want you to know that I saw it.

452
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:56,960
I just forgot to respond because I was like, I don't want people to think that I don't

453
00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:58,200
check.

454
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,200
And then not texting.

455
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,200
Hey, I did my due diligence.

456
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:01,680
I don't care if you check or not.

457
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:02,680
I let you know.

458
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,680
So if you don't check it, that's on you.

459
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:05,680
I don't really care.

460
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:06,680
Well, I know, but I just think about it.

461
00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,520
Like, why the hell am I like because you're a compassionate person.

462
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:11,520
I know.

463
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,320
No, I'm just saying I just don't want people to think, well, why the hell am I going to the

464
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:16,320
trouble of texting you?

465
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:18,520
No, I think you're not even keeping track.

466
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,760
No, no, no, Caitlyn's just a very caring person.

467
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:21,760
And that's how she is.

468
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:22,760
That's why we're friends.

469
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:23,760
Yeah.

470
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:24,760
Yeah.

471
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:25,760
Yeah.

472
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:26,760
Yeah.

473
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:27,760
She's practically the only one.

474
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:33,200
So, man, yeah, mother Teresa over here, you just minus the sex trafficking.

475
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,240
Oh, yeah.

476
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,720
You know, it takes a while to adjust to.

477
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,440
There's so many public figures that you're just like, oh, actually, that's not a good thing

478
00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:42,440
anymore.

479
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:43,440
Yikes.

480
00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,840
All right.

481
00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaking of not good things.

482
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:47,840
On to the next one.

483
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,240
On to the next one.

484
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,240
Yeah.

485
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:55,800
I guess this is as good a time as any to mention that Debbie's aforementioned a strange

486
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,480
spouse worked for the Gladstone Police Department.

487
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:00,480
Okay.

488
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,120
Just in case that wasn't like abundantly clear, I feel like I did mention that in.

489
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:05,120
Yeah.

490
00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:06,120
Yeah.

491
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,680
And I think that's a nut like obviously if you're with a police officer, we've seen

492
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,360
movies like they don't stray from the truth.

493
00:22:12,360 --> 00:22:14,720
Like, they're she was pretty isolated.

494
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,720
Let's be honest because there's no way that you can just go shun from the rooftops that

495
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,360
your spouse is abusing you when they're a police officer.

496
00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:25,640
Now, have they served the whole time or were they were or did they just recently

497
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:26,640
become a police officer or before?

498
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,760
No, they had already been a police officer for quite some time.

499
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,480
And I do have a little bit more information about their 10 years.

500
00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,480
So yeah.

501
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,280
I'll stop talking.

502
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:37,280
Yeah.

503
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:38,280
No, you're good.

504
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:39,280
Okay.

505
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,400
But it's, you know, if you have somebody that works in law enforcement and that's your

506
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,080
spouse in my notes that says, so I guess in that case, I just have to call the SWAT team

507
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,080
to be safe.

508
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Yes.

509
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,080
Obviously.

510
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,640
Because it's like, who do you call when, you know, the cops are the one that are putting

511
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,640
you in danger?

512
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:55,640
Right.

513
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:56,640
So it's so special.

514
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,640
Well, I just put it in.

515
00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:58,640
Yeah.

516
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,640
I put it in the strips appropriate.

517
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:01,640
Maybe not.

518
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:02,640
I don't know.

519
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:03,640
Yeah.

520
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:04,640
I don't know either.

521
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:08,000
We don't really worry about the appropriateness too much.

522
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,200
But no, but it's absolutely true.

523
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:17,840
It's like, who do you call when your spouse is in the middle of like the dilemma?

524
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,320
Because you don't call it police to be like, right?

525
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:21,320
Right.

526
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:29,760
And this is not the first case that we've talked about where the victim, you know, was in

527
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,880
a relationship with somebody who worked in law enforcement where spoiler alert, this

528
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,840
exact same thing happened.

529
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:47,320
So fortunately, they did not have any children because we talked about a Crystal Brame from

530
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:54,720
up in the Bremerton area who her ex-husband basically attacked her in a strip mall parking

531
00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:01,880
law and killed her and himself in front of their children.

532
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:02,880
What?

533
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:03,880
When?

534
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,320
This, I mean, I can't remember the year exactly, but this was fresh.

535
00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:09,320
Oh my gosh.

536
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:10,320
Yeah.

537
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,000
So I mean, this is, did he even know or anything on why he did that?

538
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,000
What was the purpose of that?

539
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,880
I don't think he really needed to leave a note.

540
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,960
They were going through a very acrimonious divorce themselves.

541
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:28,080
There was a lot of information coming to light publicly about his wrongdoing in other areas.

542
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:33,120
So he decided to top it off, like add the chair and top and just, yeah, just orphan their

543
00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:34,120
children.

544
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:36,360
But it doesn't make sense.

545
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:37,360
Yeah.

546
00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:42,240
So I mean, that's kind of the situation that, you know, we're working with here where it's

547
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:48,600
like, okay, yeah, sure, you know, have problems with your current or ex partner, but, uh,

548
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,120
but no, it's a good thing there weren't any children involved because like, especially

549
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:53,880
from your children, they're forever scarred.

550
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,080
Oh, let's be honest.

551
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,200
That's, yeah, they're reliving that nightmare.

552
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:02,840
So luckily for this situation, they didn't have kids, but like, holy, yeah, he's never

553
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:03,840
understood that.

554
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,040
It's pretty crazy.

555
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:10,720
Anyway, an employee at the business they contacted, because now we're circling back.

556
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,720
The friends were alarmed.

557
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,520
They, you know, made a call to a neighboring business.

558
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:22,800
Um, an employee at the business they contacted who happened to be an off-duty firefighter.

559
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,680
Took their concerns pretty seriously and followed the call up by going to the Gladstone Police

560
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,720
Department and even making contact with Lynn.

561
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Now I can understand why, you know, firefighters and police, I feel like, I'm sure it's different

562
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,560
everywhere, but I feel like in all of the movies and stuff, they're like, you know, they

563
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:44,200
butt heads and they're like kind of at odds with each other.

564
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,400
Seems like this guy was like, nope, that's the move.

565
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,840
Um, he's like, yeah, he's like, I hate the police.

566
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:52,840
So I'm like, they're with you.

567
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:53,840
I'm going to go check.

568
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:54,840
Yeah.

569
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,000
No, he even made contact with Lynn.

570
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,760
So he goes to the police department and specifically speaks to Lynn.

571
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,120
So I don't take issue with the escalation or the sense of urgency at all.

572
00:26:08,120 --> 00:26:10,360
Obviously freak out more people.

573
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:11,360
Right.

574
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:12,360
Right.

575
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:17,320
But what I do take issue with, and admittedly, I don't know, um, that person's specific

576
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,440
circumstance, but does anyone else think it's a problem that a firefighter apparently needs

577
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:26,720
to moonlight just to go totally off topic?

578
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,600
Why does a firefighter need a second job?

579
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,840
Their first job is already so physically demanding.

580
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:36,280
Yeah, but there's a lot of that I service.

581
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,280
They are volunteers.

582
00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:39,280
And that's why it's part time.

583
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,280
Yeah, this was an volunteer one.

584
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,840
And he's like, oh, well, that's, yeah, that's not how the heck does that work because they

585
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,040
make you work for like 48, 72 hours or whatever.

586
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,720
Yeah, no, they have kind of crazy schedules.

587
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:57,560
I mean, I don't know, good on them for caring and following through, you know, to check on

588
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,560
Debbie.

589
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:02,240
However, I just feel like he worked part time at the hair salon too.

590
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:03,240
Like not at this salon.

591
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:04,840
He was at the neighboring business.

592
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:05,840
Oh, okay.

593
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:06,840
Okay.

594
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:07,840
Okay.

595
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:08,840
He had a pretty intense job.

596
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,000
So like maybe when they're not fighting fires, we should be paying them enough that they

597
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000
can afford to.

598
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,800
No, no, absolutely.

599
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,280
Because how would you, how would that even work?

600
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:21,280
I don't know.

601
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,560
I just feel like, you know, probably this person should build work just that one super high

602
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,240
stress, very high pressure job, you know, have some downtime occasionally and still continue

603
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,240
to live indoors.

604
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:33,240
Yeah.

605
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:38,960
And it's extremely, it's not only physically, but it's a mentally demanding job because

606
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,840
it's because they usually are the first to show up on a scene.

607
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:47,280
So it doesn't matter if it's a hostage situation, it doesn't matter if it's somebody who's

608
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:52,360
calling because, oh, and you know, part attack or heart attack or I've heard those, I've

609
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:53,360
heard those before.

610
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:54,360
Yeah.

611
00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:59,280
But it's like, they're the first on the scene and they are the ones that usually have to

612
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:06,000
divulge and like jump into whatever's happening for so I can't imagine trying to when you get

613
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,520
off, you know, when you get off, yes.

614
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,600
And then going to a second job.

615
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,600
Yep.

616
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:12,600
I can't imagine that.

617
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:13,600
Pretty wild.

618
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:14,600
Yeah.

619
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:19,560
I just for, for whatever reason, probably just because I'm so, my awareness is very heightened

620
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:23,280
about our current capitalistic hell-scape.

621
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:29,240
I just, I just really glommed on to that because I was like, why is this why?

622
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,720
A firefighter working like some, you know, part-time retail job.

623
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,000
I don't know who knows.

624
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,800
Maybe he's just a guy who's like, is working super hard because he wants to pay like down

625
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,840
student debt or wants to buy house or whatever.

626
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,840
You know, maybe it, I don't know his situation.

627
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:52,280
I just was like, and now I'm angry about that, you know.

628
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,200
It was just before 9 p.m. when Lynn and the off duty firefighter visited the Gladstone

629
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,400
Beauty salon to check on Debbie.

630
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,600
Seriously, though, this firefighter is a real one.

631
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:10,680
Apparently, they do not punch out from being a public servant literally ever because he's

632
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:16,640
working a second job and then wraps that up and is like, oh, here, let me just go be a good

633
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,680
smaritan on my free time.

634
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,320
You know, all 15 minutes of it before my next show.

635
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:23,320
Right.

636
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,320
Right.

637
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,320
What?

638
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,920
So, Lynn had a key to their wife's salon.

639
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,000
When, yeah, apparently.

640
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,000
I know.

641
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,360
I thought that was interesting as well.

642
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:43,600
When they entered, the pair quickly found poor Debbie dead in the back storage room.

643
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:47,920
According to court documents, as soon as Benton went back to the office and turned on the

644
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:53,320
light, Sergeant Benton let out a blood-curdling scream.

645
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:54,600
From there, man.

646
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:55,600
Oh, my God.

647
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:56,600
Yeah.

648
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:06,320
From their law enforcement and Lynn's attorney differ on what happened inside this salon.

649
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,960
Lynn's defense claims that as a trained paramedic, they were able to determine that Debbie

650
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,720
was gone.

651
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,480
Basically, she was beyond saving.

652
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,080
She was stiff and had no pulse.

653
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:23,760
Its law enforcement's assertion that Lynn made no attempt to revive Debbie, which as the

654
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,080
spouse, even with that sort of training to me, that seems sus is all hell.

655
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:33,320
No, it totally is sus because usually, even if they know, they still try to resist to

656
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:34,320
take--

657
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,320
They still try.

658
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,320
Yeah, they still try.

659
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,320
And then they'll be like, okay, dead on arrival, sort of thing.

660
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,320
Yeah.

661
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:40,320
The deal way.

662
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,360
But that, no, that is-- oh, yep, they looked dead.

663
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,600
Well, let's clear out.

664
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:45,600
Let's clear out.

665
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

666
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,800
Obviously, I wasn't there.

667
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,360
I didn't witness the condition of the body.

668
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:57,800
I could see where, if there's obvious brain matter on the floor, a situation like that,

669
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,960
but I will say, there are cases where even in those situations, brain matter exposed--

670
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:04,960
Yes, they still try.

671
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,960
Yeah, but they still try.

672
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:07,960
I don't know.

673
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,440
I mean, obviously, they were not on the best terms, but you would think, hey, especially

674
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:18,440
as the spouse, maybe I'm really motivated to save this person, even though I may not be

675
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,240
super in love with them anymore, because, guess what?

676
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,400
You are going to be the first suspect.

677
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:25,400
Absolutely.

678
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,120
Even if you were in what outwardly appears to be a happy marriage.

679
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:33,760
So just something to think about.

680
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:38,840
I mean, training is one thing, but other than making a little bit of noise, you are not going

681
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,520
to exhibit any concern for this person, your partner.

682
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:43,520
I just-- I don't know.

683
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,960
I wasn't there, so I really can't say it, but the latter isn't.

684
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,960
It's not a good look.

685
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:51,040
No, not at all.

686
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:52,280
Yeah, not at all.

687
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,920
Especially if the sergeant, or whoever it was, it had found.

688
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:58,160
Because Lynn was there, too.

689
00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,160
Yes.

690
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,560
Lynn is the one that made the discovery.

691
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:02,560
Okay.

692
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:03,560
Yeah.

693
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,160
I mean, it's two people, essentially.

694
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:12,920
It's a firefighter who also happens to be Debbie's partner, a strange partner at this point,

695
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:13,920
and then a firefighter.

696
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:18,720
So yeah, I could see where maybe you don't go into complete hysterics.

697
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:26,600
Maybe the scream as he's discovering the body is sort of just a reaction, just a reaction

698
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,600
or anything.

699
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:35,640
And I'm going to say they, because I don't know at the point of the discovery of Debbie's

700
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:43,760
body, I don't know specifically that I could pinpoint what the pronouns were at that

701
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:44,760
point.

702
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:52,560
It is, there's a lot of that where it's a little bit tough to precisely determine, you

703
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,440
know, a timeline for that.

704
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,880
So and, you know, just out of respect in that regard.

705
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,920
But Lynn reportedly immediately called for police assistance, because you know what a cop

706
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,320
needs when there's a dead body is more cops.

707
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:13,320
Absolutely.

708
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Because I think they, I mean, arguably like, yeah, you need more people there.

709
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:23,440
But I just am like, instead of calling an ambulance, they just call more police.

710
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:24,760
That's my understanding.

711
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:31,440
I don't know if they, I mean, typically when the cops are calling for assistance, like they

712
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:35,960
are calling directly to a dispatcher.

713
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,520
And so they're going to basically relay the situation.

714
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:43,160
I don't know that in this case, I mean, if you really want to get down to like splitting

715
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:48,920
hairs down to brass tacks, I don't know that they specifically said, like, I need backup

716
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,520
or that they said, like, we've got a body, you know, that sort of thing.

717
00:33:53,520 --> 00:34:00,400
So I think sometimes that's more down to like the dispatcher is interpreting what the

718
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:02,160
situation requires.

719
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,360
But I just, I hate you Lynn.

720
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:10,320
So isn't this all like usually, aren't there police reports?

721
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:15,960
And isn't it, wouldn't it be in a police report saying like, generally what it, yeah, I mean,

722
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:22,240
you do have sort of a general sense of, but I don't know that you can adequately get

723
00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:28,120
direct quotes about like, okay, this is specifically what I told the dispatcher.

724
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:35,440
You can oftentimes if they are released for public record, the 911 call itself.

725
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:36,440
Right.

726
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,600
And that's why I was like, usually when things go to trial, things are public.

727
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:41,960
And that's the reason why I was like, this wasn't even.

728
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,960
But I mean, I feel like it is and it isn't.

729
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,960
Is that makes sense?

730
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,960
And we will have a little bit more.

731
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,960
Oh, okay.

732
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,920
As you may imagine, under the circumstances, help was quickly on the way.

733
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,880
Another police sergeant arrived in just two minutes, which is a hell of a response time.

734
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,840
It's not bad.

735
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,000
At that point, the defense takes, it's also what 2011?

736
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,000
No, 2011.

737
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,360
It's, please response was different.

738
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,160
And then after COVID, it changed.

739
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:24,480
So yeah, yeah, during and after COVID, there's been some differences.

740
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,040
So are we really shocked before COVID that they responded?

741
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:29,040
No.

742
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:30,040
Yeah.

743
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:37,680
At that point, the defense states that Sergeant Lynn was visibly upset and crying, crying

744
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,040
and sobbing.

745
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:47,440
And honestly, who wouldn't be after discovering their spouse estranged or not in this manner?

746
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,920
But it just feels a little bit like it was a bit of a light switch situation.

747
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,920
Like, oh, really?

748
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Yeah, like you're putting on the airs.

749
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:58,640
You know what I mean?

750
00:35:58,640 --> 00:35:59,640
Yeah.

751
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:00,640
Yeah.

752
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:01,640
Yeah.

753
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,640
What did deflect like any sort of suspicion?

754
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:04,640
Oh, yeah.

755
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:09,800
Authorities said it wasn't until her autopsy that it was determined she had been shot in the

756
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:15,160
back and had also been strangled, ruling her death as a homicide.

757
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,920
Because anybody's shooting and strangling themselves.

758
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,200
Well, not to my knowledge.

759
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,560
I love today.

760
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,320
She's rolling through her rolodex.

761
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:31,720
Yeah, but many times have I heard of a murder where they strangled themselves and then

762
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:32,720
yeah, I don't know.

763
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,720
I don't like so far none.

764
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:36,600
Yeah, so far none.

765
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,760
So I mean, at this point, basically, everyone is just asking, how could someone be driven

766
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:44,120
to commit such a brutal crime against her?

767
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,080
Seems like she again, you know, really?

768
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,000
Well, especially for Gladstone because it's a super small town.

769
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,240
So totally understandable.

770
00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:51,240
Yeah.

771
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:56,600
I think, although I would say like you're just outside of Portland, this is also 2011.

772
00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:05,200
Maybe let's can the, you know, it feels a little insincere just to be like so shocked.

773
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,760
Like, oh, this doesn't happen here.

774
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:08,840
It's like, well, crime happens everywhere.

775
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:10,720
Oh, not in a glass stone.

776
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:11,720
It's a bubble.

777
00:37:11,720 --> 00:37:12,720
It's perfect.

778
00:37:12,720 --> 00:37:13,720
Okay.

779
00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,920
The who's from who built it in Gladstone during the rest of the season.

780
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:17,920
Oh my God.

781
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:18,920
Come on.

782
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:19,920
Come on.

783
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,400
It's like, I mean, it is.

784
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:30,600
It's a very, it's a very like homey feeling town or I mean, to some degree, so I feel like

785
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,840
there's a lot of areas of Gladstone there.

786
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,840
But you're actually correct because yeah, crime happens all the time.

787
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,760
I know that's really shocking, but I'm not just talking in general.

788
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:44,000
I mean, like, in Gladstone, like, three days ago, I'd do just murder his mom.

789
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,200
So yeah, it's not, I get it.

790
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,200
Yes.

791
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,200
It's not.

792
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,200
It just feels a little disingenuous.

793
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:50,680
But they all had surprised me.

794
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:52,880
Did you face somebody who died a little bit?

795
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,280
Yeah, it's like, oh, people get murdered.

796
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,720
Like, I've never heard of murder.

797
00:37:57,720 --> 00:37:58,720
Yeah.

798
00:37:58,720 --> 00:37:59,720
Okay.

799
00:37:59,720 --> 00:38:00,720
It's a new concept.

800
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:01,720
It is a new concept.

801
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:02,720
That's why I'm, I have surprised me.

802
00:38:02,720 --> 00:38:03,720
Good to face.

803
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:04,720
Yeah.

804
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:12,160
I feel like Gladstone of all places claiming to be, you know, in shock and awe is a little, it's

805
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,040
a little rich for me, but that's fine.

806
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,720
Well, it's because you're not from Gladstone.

807
00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:18,480
You're not a Gladstoneian.

808
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:19,480
Okay.

809
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:20,480
Oh, my God.

810
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,560
I'm true Gladstoneian of what makes me surprised.

811
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,800
It would be shocking.

812
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:32,280
Initially, the deputy medical examiner had determined Debbie's death was caused by a heart

813
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:33,760
attack.

814
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:38,920
Of course, that was prior to any autopsy being performed at the Oregon State Medical Examiner's

815
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,480
office in Clackamas the following day.

816
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,880
Debbie's cause of death was determined not only to be homicide, but furthermore, the result

817
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:57,280
of, and this is a quote from the reporting, a gunshot wound of the back neck compression

818
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:03,600
strangulation and blunt force chest and abdominal trauma.

819
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,800
That's a lot of violence inflicted on the body.

820
00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:09,320
I will say that.

821
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:15,120
True crime officionados will not be surprised at all to learn that a certain sergeant in

822
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,800
the Gladstone Police Department was of interest to the authorities as they continued to investigate.

823
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:23,120
What's that thing?

824
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:26,000
We hear and we say it all the time.

825
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,160
Oh, right.

826
00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:29,160
The husband did it.

827
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,400
I have a look on the edge of my seat.

828
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,400
What do we say?

829
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:35,400
Yes.

830
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:36,400
Yes.

831
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,200
It's usually the spouse generally speaking.

832
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:40,200
Yes.

833
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:46,680
Usually these days it feels like for an average woman, the only thing on par in terms of just

834
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:55,240
risk of bodily harm with walking down a dark alley is the dangerous endeavor of becoming

835
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:58,160
pregnant or pissing off a romantic partner.

836
00:39:58,160 --> 00:39:59,160
Same.

837
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:05,000
That's the other thing to keep in mind is anytime there's some sort of strangulation.

838
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,200
It's very personal.

839
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,200
Yes, it's personal.

840
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:10,200
That's how you know it has me.

841
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:11,200
It doesn't help it quickly.

842
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,800
It's just they had time to think about it.

843
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:14,800
Exactly.

844
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:22,360
That's why I'm like, because being that close to somebody and there is rage behind there.

845
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:23,360
It is personal.

846
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,120
That's why it's like, I'm like, I got strangled and shocked.

847
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:32,000
I don't know how much you recall from when you have read about this case in the past,

848
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,640
but I think you will be a little bit surprised about the specifics because we are going to

849
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:44,760
get into a little bit about the conspiracy and who all was involved in what.

850
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:49,280
So I'm not going to get into the weeds on the statistics here, but I'm pretty sure I

851
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:50,560
don't have to.

852
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:57,280
For every single one of us that's in a happy, healthy relationship, we can point to at least

853
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:07,560
one Lacey Peterson, which I mean, I feel bad saying that because it's not anything that

854
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,520
she had ever done wrong.

855
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:16,080
Unfortunately, the only mistake that she made was picking a man that valued his freedom

856
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:21,960
more than her life and was a piece of shit and a lying sack of shit.

857
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,160
While as long as people live on the surf, they're going to have murderers.

858
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,120
I mean, are we really shocked?

859
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,160
Just selfish evil people.

860
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:30,160
I know.

861
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:34,640
And I think the part that gets me is you married this person.

862
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:41,040
You got an abandoned knee and asked to marry them or ask them to marry you.

863
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,640
You decided, "I'm done with you."

864
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,640
"Kapow."

865
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:50,680
And that's just what mind-blowing is.

866
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:57,440
You almost have to be psychopathic or sociopath or something to be able to kill the person

867
00:41:57,440 --> 00:41:59,680
that you married.

868
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:01,160
It's pretty wild.

869
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:11,880
And I feel like probably the thing that people will maybe focus in on is that I'm saying it's

870
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:20,040
so dangerous for a woman, basically, to become pregnant or have a romantic partner.

871
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:23,640
In one sense, that feels like a hot take.

872
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:30,360
But not really when you consider how many pregnant women are murdered.

873
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:32,680
How many women are murdered by their partners?

874
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,000
So I don't know whether I'm right or wrong.

875
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:36,920
Feel free to light up the comments, guys.

876
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,000
We could use the engagement.

877
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:45,080
And it's your attention that we crave in this capitalistic hell-scape.

878
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:52,680
Some interesting information came to light about Lynn Benton as they began to investigate.

879
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:58,760
Because remember, now Lynn is all of a sudden a very interesting person to the police.

880
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:07,480
They were actually fired by the police department after 24 years of service as a police officer,

881
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,280
which feels another hot take here.

882
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,400
Honestly, it feels damn near impossible to accomplish.

883
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,880
It really feels difficult for a cop to get fired.

884
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:18,880
Oh, no, absolutely.

885
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,880
Absolutely, absolutely.

886
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:26,480
Usually, they're, they get a slap on the wrist and I'm just going to keep it up.

887
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,320
Wow, you know, and I wouldn't slap too hard.

888
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,320
You don't want to hurt his wrist.

889
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,320
Right, right, right.

890
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,560
That's why I say it's usually like, don't do that again.

891
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,040
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

892
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:36,920
Yeah, no, I totally got it.

893
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:37,920
Yeah.

894
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:39,840
So this is kind of a really interesting.

895
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,080
I don't know that it is all that relevant specifically to the murder, but obviously we're

896
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,800
going to talk about it because it's very interesting background for Lynn.

897
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:54,240
Two reasons were cited for Lynn's termination by the chief of police when a when an official

898
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:56,240
statement was issued.

899
00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:58,000
Number one.

900
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:05,280
The individual had married a Brazilian man in 1993 so that their companion or acquaintance

901
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,240
could obtain US citizenship.

902
00:44:08,240 --> 00:44:13,440
Oh, don't they usually investigate that to make sure that it's like legit?

903
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:14,440
They sure do.

904
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,440
Yeah.

905
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:16,440
Yeah.

906
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,440
That's why you get in a lot of trouble when you when you do, when you do that.

907
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:21,440
Mm-hmm.

908
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,440
Number two.

909
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:28,080
The entity issued laptop, this employee possessed contained evidence that they had both viewed and

910
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:34,440
possessed pornographic material, which it's not illegal to possess porn.

911
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,560
And I'd like to think that most of our listeners know that we try to view things through a critical

912
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,600
and is even handed a lens as possible.

913
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,760
Okay, porn's not illegal, but like, was it that work?

914
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:46,760
That's just dumb.

915
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,240
It's a work computer.

916
00:44:48,240 --> 00:44:50,000
Oh, that's just dumb.

917
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,000
Okay, yes.

918
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:52,000
Okay.

919
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:53,000
Yeah.

920
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,000
But it's like those people want to get caught.

921
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,000
Like they want to.

922
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:57,000
Right.

923
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,000
I'm sorry.

924
00:44:58,000 --> 00:44:59,200
It's like, you know better.

925
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,000
There's going to be some sort of monitoring.

926
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:08,400
I mean, this is like sometime between 1993 and 2010.

927
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,800
So maybe they didn't realize.

928
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,240
I don't know.

929
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:16,920
I don't work for the government or in nearly as important a role as Linda, but you know what?

930
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,840
I don't do.

931
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:22,360
I think I'll porn on my work laptop, not once, never done it.

932
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,360
Well, you need to do it.

933
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,360
You just need to do it one time.

934
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:26,360
Just one time.

935
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:27,880
And then you'll know you'll understand.

936
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:28,880
You'll understand.

937
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:35,160
And frankly, I'd like to collect my metal now if we're just giving them away.

938
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,160
You know, for not watching the porn.

939
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:39,160
While it work.

940
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,320
Let's add that while it works.

941
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,120
Yeah, I think they were probably off the clock, but you're using a like, you know,

942
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:46,800
but you're so using a work.

943
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:47,800
Exactly.

944
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:52,440
You're saying, you're asking for a good point.

945
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,560
Not good.

946
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,080
As a millennial, I don't want to catch flag for getting a participation trophy, but I

947
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,480
feel like a non-participation trophy should be fine because I didn't participate in the

948
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:04,480
watching the work.

949
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:05,480
Do I get one too?

950
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,480
Yeah.

951
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,520
Let's award ourselves trophies for not watching porn.

952
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,520
I will.

953
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,520
It'll be big enough for our work devices.

954
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:13,520
That's my fireplace.

955
00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:14,520
There you go.

956
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,520
Huge.

957
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:16,520
Yeah.

958
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:17,520
Huge.

959
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:18,520
I know.

960
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,760
And the doughnut too.

961
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,960
So you might recall that I mentioned accomplices at the top.

962
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:25,960
Yes.

963
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:26,960
Yes.

964
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:27,960
Yes.

965
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:32,000
Well, how else do you seamlessly orchestrate the cold blooded murder of your spouse whilst

966
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,440
maintaining an alibi?

967
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:36,920
Many have tried and failed.

968
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,720
But I'm sure this crack team has it in the bag.

969
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:44,000
Spoiler alert, they super did not have this.

970
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:45,960
They really did not nail it.

971
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,160
They did not stick the landing.

972
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:54,920
Susan Ellen Campbell was arrested within days of Debbie Benton's murder, though this individual

973
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,280
had no criminal history.

974
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:04,440
But there was also the troubling fact that authorities could find no evidence of a robbery.

975
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:11,880
So I think that they were speculating that the salon had been broken into and that it

976
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,440
was like motive was robbery.

977
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:16,760
And I'm like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.

978
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:19,640
You know, kind of makes you wonder who was the person who threw that out.

979
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:20,640
Yeah.

980
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:21,640
It does.

981
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:22,640
Like, it's so funny.

982
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:23,640
That's exactly what I was.

983
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:24,640
It looks like a robbery.

984
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:25,640
It looks like a robbery.

985
00:47:25,640 --> 00:47:26,640
It looks like a robbery.

986
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:31,440
All the big caches that are usually being killed missing.

987
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,840
He just goes like real old timey.

988
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:40,440
Campbell, Lynn Benton's friend, became a person of interest after a neighbor called

989
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,800
police with concerns.

990
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:49,520
The authorities then coordinated with a neighbor to record a call where Campbell and the neighbor

991
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,160
discussed plans to cover up the crime.

992
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,560
And Lynn also admitted to wanting their wife dead.

993
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,920
So just recorded them basically plotting out the whole murder.

994
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,680
So what is it like one of the nosey neighbors that's like, hey, girl, hey, just like checking

995
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:05,680
with you.

996
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,200
Want to know what's going on?

997
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,200
What's up?

998
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:09,200
What's up?

999
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,200
Oh, yeah.

1000
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,200
I know you with that.

1001
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,840
I know somebody who knows somebody.

1002
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:22,120
Campbell's son also claimed to have overheard Benton offer $2,000 to commit the crime.

1003
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:28,200
Which is not a lot of money for this type of you going to like federal, well, maybe not

1004
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,200
federal.

1005
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:30,200
Okay.

1006
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,320
But you're going away for a long time.

1007
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:33,840
But that's only if you're caught, right?

1008
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,200
They didn't expect to be caught.

1009
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,680
So $2,000 is a lot of money when.

1010
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,680
Yeah.

1011
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,560
When you think you're for sure getting away with it.

1012
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,720
The payment was never processed largely because it was reportedly supposed to come from

1013
00:48:47,720 --> 00:48:53,120
a safe deposit box that Debbie blocked Lynn from accessing.

1014
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:59,360
So before she was murdered, she was able to stop Lynn from accessing their safety deposit

1015
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:08,480
box, which had money or something of value that they were going to use to pay for the hit

1016
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:12,320
on her, which is just lovely.

1017
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,640
Usually people say more money, more problems.

1018
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:20,680
But I guess since this whole plot fell apart pretty quickly, it probably doesn't really matter.

1019
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,680
How many commas were involved?

1020
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:23,680
Okay.

1021
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:24,680
Yeah.

1022
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:25,680
I see what I did there.

1023
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:32,680
I was like, I don't think it matters how many commas were involved because it's like, I get

1024
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,680
it zero, zero, zero commas, zero, zero commas, zero, zero.

1025
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,680
Yeah.

1026
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:37,680
It's a thinker.

1027
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:38,680
It is.

1028
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:39,680
It is.

1029
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:40,680
But I picked up what you were throwing down.

1030
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,680
It's doing it.

1031
00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:42,680
I picked it up.

1032
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:43,680
I picked up what you were throwing down.

1033
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:50,280
I got at a bill hearing that December, it came to light that Campbell had confessed, though

1034
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:51,960
not outright.

1035
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:56,160
They stating that they had participated in the crime.

1036
00:49:56,160 --> 00:49:59,440
They were like, I was a participant in the crime.

1037
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:00,840
I was just the driver.

1038
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:01,840
Okay.

1039
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,680
I was just making sure the car was warm.

1040
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:10,240
The story was that Campbell had been paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to collect Debbie.

1041
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:11,240
Oh, allegedly.

1042
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,240
Not so much.

1043
00:50:12,240 --> 00:50:13,240
Not so allegedly at this point.

1044
00:50:13,240 --> 00:50:16,080
Wait, but I thought you said the money was in the safety deposit.

1045
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,080
I know.

1046
00:50:17,080 --> 00:50:19,680
So I think the plan was to pay them 2000.

1047
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,520
They got the IOU, right?

1048
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:22,520
Just worth more.

1049
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:23,520
Exactly.

1050
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:24,520
Exactly.

1051
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:25,520
Yeah.

1052
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,520
I assume they're tacking on interest.

1053
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:27,520
I don't know.

1054
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:28,520
Right.

1055
00:50:28,520 --> 00:50:35,800
So they were going to be paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to kill Debbie in the Gladstone

1056
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,600
Beauty Salon that May.

1057
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:45,800
Debbie had been shot in the back of the head with a 25 caliber semi-automatic handgun,

1058
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,640
though that wasn't enough to ring the life from that poor woman.

1059
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:55,920
She'd been beaten with numerous broken ribs, a lacerated liver, as well as one of the

1060
00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:02,440
telltale signs of strangulation, a fractured thorax.

1061
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:10,800
The Clackamas County was quoted as saying of the crime, "It was kill, kill, and overkill."

1062
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,040
I hope to never utter the phrase lacerated liver or the like again, but then if that was

1063
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:20,600
a serious life goal, I probably should have chosen something.

1064
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:24,720
Other than true crime to podcast about.

1065
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:31,800
You know when you start saying things out loud or I don't know how many book reports you're

1066
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,520
writing of late, but as I'm writing my notes sometimes, I'm like, "Man, this is a little

1067
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:37,520
bit of a bummer."

1068
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:42,680
And I'm like, "Yeah, this is actually a hundred percent, your fault."

1069
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,040
You could have started a podcast about anything, technically.

1070
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:48,040
That is true.

1071
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:49,040
That is true.

1072
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,480
They are.

1073
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:57,680
When questioned about the murder, Lynn was asked for all cell phones in their possession.

1074
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:04,760
They claim to only have a work phone, handing it over willingly, almost suspiciously so.

1075
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,440
Like they gave it up too easily.

1076
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:08,440
Lynn.

1077
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:13,760
Now, don't you think though like being that they're part of the police academy they didn't want,

1078
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:17,760
even though it is suspicious, don't get more access, but they didn't want to cast suspicion

1079
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:19,760
so they're like, "Here you go."

1080
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:20,760
Wait, wait, wait.

1081
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:22,960
I just had to lay a few things here.

1082
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:28,960
I think we'll get to the end of the paragraph and I think you'll realize.

1083
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:29,960
Yeah.

1084
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:35,040
So they claim to have only a work phone and they're like, "Here, yeah."

1085
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,560
And they're, "Mm, I don't know.

1086
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,960
That was almost too easy."

1087
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:45,720
And just then the detective heard a noise coming from their jacket pocket at which point

1088
00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:50,360
Lynn buried their head in their hands, cursing.

1089
00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:53,360
Okay, so word of advice.

1090
00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:00,680
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or just a separate personal

1091
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:07,880
phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence of police

1092
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:12,920
or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of their own

1093
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:13,920
credit.

1094
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:14,920
Yeah, yeah.

1095
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:15,920
They stupid.

1096
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:16,920
Yeah.

1097
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:23,040
The record's pertaining to calls and text messages on the day of the murder had been erased.

1098
00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:28,880
But nothing has ever really, truly erased for good, right?

1099
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:31,120
And as a police officer, they should know this.

1100
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:32,120
Hello.

1101
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:33,120
Yeah.

1102
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,120
Hello.

1103
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,120
They should know this.

1104
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:38,760
Such remarkable little devices these are.

1105
00:53:38,760 --> 00:53:40,760
Imagine that.

1106
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:41,760
Hello.

1107
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:42,760
Tippy's canoes.

1108
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,760
I don't know, right?

1109
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:45,760
Oh my god.

1110
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,760
Do you like that?

1111
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,760
I actually put that in my notebook.

1112
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:50,760
You did?

1113
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,760
I had to reread it six times and I realized it was part of the skit and I was like, what?

1114
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:55,760
I know.

1115
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:56,760
I was like, what?

1116
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,760
Is that part of the murder?

1117
00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:00,760
Is that how she answered her phone?

1118
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:01,760
Was Tippy's canoes?

1119
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,760
So people didn't know what was going on.

1120
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:06,760
And then I realized it was a joke.

1121
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:11,440
You're like, oh, she's just joshing.

1122
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:12,440
That jokes.

1123
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,080
That jokes for days.

1124
00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:20,920
Former Gladstone police sergeant Lynn Benton was a reigned via video from the Clackamas

1125
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,560
County jail on murder charges before Judge Jeffrey S. Jones.

1126
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:33,680
It's a lot of jays at the Clackamas County Courthouse in Oregon City on November 8, 2012.

1127
00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:39,760
Ultimately, Lynn was sentenced to life in prison without parole.

1128
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:41,760
And that's the end, right?

1129
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:42,760
Done, done, done.

1130
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,920
I love feeling it's not.

1131
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,760
She knows that she only got fed a portion of the story.

1132
00:54:48,760 --> 00:54:49,760
I only had a portion.

1133
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:50,760
Yeah.

1134
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:51,760
I didn't send you everything.

1135
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:52,760
Yeah.

1136
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:55,360
I'd love to tell you that that's where our story ends.

1137
00:54:55,360 --> 00:55:02,560
And in fact, when I first started researching the case, I believed that to be a wrap.

1138
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:09,120
As I read through the legalese in the detailed timeline of the court records, suddenly

1139
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:20,840
as 2023 and 2024 progressed, it seemed like the initial indictment might be amended, which

1140
00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:24,920
was scary and confusing.

1141
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:29,880
There's a lot of language around protecting both medical and financial records.

1142
00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:35,800
And though it's not made plain, I'm sure this pertains to Lynn, but I suppose the records

1143
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:41,640
very well could pertain to others involved in the case, maybe Debbie or perhaps even those

1144
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,080
that testified.

1145
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:51,800
When I made my way down to the end of April, 2024, in the timeline I read, the indictment

1146
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:59,080
dated November 6, 2012 remains in force.

1147
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:03,200
Still as I realized, there was a significant amount to scroll through.

1148
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,400
It seemed like this might not be over, like at all.

1149
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:15,240
Finally, on the spookiest of all days, October 31, all hallows eve, one of many interesting

1150
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:22,840
court filings appears in the timeline of the case record, specifically a motion to order

1151
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:31,540
disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera review, which I realized

1152
00:56:31,540 --> 00:56:33,720
may not sound that spicy.

1153
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:35,120
But here we go.

1154
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:40,420
A motion to order disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera

1155
00:56:40,420 --> 00:56:46,360
review means that a party is requesting that the court either order the disclosure of

1156
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:54,140
grand jury testimony or permit an in-camera review of the testimony.

1157
00:56:54,140 --> 00:57:00,180
To obtain disclosure of grand jury transcripts, a party must show that the need for disclosure

1158
00:57:00,180 --> 00:57:03,140
outweighs the need for secrecy.

1159
00:57:03,140 --> 00:57:07,100
So all this is to say, this doesn't happen a lot.

1160
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:11,740
The request must also be structured to cover only the material that is needed.

1161
00:57:11,740 --> 00:57:13,780
So it's not like, "Oh, okay, cool.

1162
00:57:13,780 --> 00:57:17,060
Yeah, you can just have all the access to the records."

1163
00:57:17,060 --> 00:57:20,620
It's, "Who are they giving the records to?"

1164
00:57:20,620 --> 00:57:21,620
Lynn?

1165
00:57:21,620 --> 00:57:24,420
That's a very good question.

1166
00:57:24,420 --> 00:57:29,380
There were also several motions to exclude evidence.

1167
00:57:29,380 --> 00:57:34,100
Then just the last few days, it looks like there has been some real movement in the case.

1168
00:57:34,100 --> 00:57:41,180
Because of course, usually after you're convicted of murder, there is a years-long appeal process.

1169
00:57:41,180 --> 00:57:46,340
Unless you just decide to go to prison and stay there.

1170
00:57:46,340 --> 00:57:50,980
Responses were received regarding the motions to exclude, as well as an entry indicating

1171
00:57:50,980 --> 00:57:55,140
that memorandum at law was granted.

1172
00:57:55,140 --> 00:57:59,300
And a memorandum of law is granted in a legal context.

1173
00:57:59,300 --> 00:58:04,740
It means that the court has reviewed the legal arguments presented in the memorandum and

1174
00:58:04,740 --> 00:58:10,780
has decided to rule in favor of the party who submitted it.

1175
00:58:10,780 --> 00:58:15,620
Essentially, citing with their interpretation of the law and applying it to the case facts

1176
00:58:15,620 --> 00:58:18,100
as presented.

1177
00:58:18,100 --> 00:58:21,220
So I can see on your face, what does this mean?

1178
00:58:21,220 --> 00:58:22,220
Yes.

1179
00:58:22,220 --> 00:58:23,220
That's why I'm like, "What?

1180
00:58:23,220 --> 00:58:24,220
Wait.

1181
00:58:24,220 --> 00:58:26,220
I need you to explain."

1182
00:58:26,220 --> 00:58:29,020
Well, not much yet, necessarily.

1183
00:58:29,020 --> 00:58:35,500
But the line items included for both forthcoming entries indicate that this is hardly the last

1184
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:39,020
time this case will be discussed in a courtroom.

1185
00:58:39,020 --> 00:58:44,300
The simple explanation is that the court has overturned Lynn's conviction for Debbie's

1186
00:58:44,300 --> 00:58:49,300
murder, along with other related charges and sent them back to Clackamas County for

1187
00:58:49,300 --> 00:58:51,180
a new trial.

1188
00:58:51,180 --> 00:58:54,500
Return them why?

1189
00:58:54,500 --> 00:59:00,860
It's not entirely clear from reading some of what's available is very limited in the court

1190
00:59:00,860 --> 00:59:01,860
documents.

1191
00:59:01,860 --> 00:59:04,540
I've read a couple of articles.

1192
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:08,460
People are not following this as closely because this case is pretty dated.

1193
00:59:08,460 --> 00:59:11,740
Yeah, it's kind of old.

1194
00:59:11,740 --> 00:59:18,460
But I'll ring you through what we have so far for future.

1195
00:59:18,460 --> 00:59:24,060
In fact, coming up right after Thanksgiving on December 2nd, this next week, the first round

1196
00:59:24,060 --> 00:59:28,700
motions in the second trial appear to be commencing.

1197
00:59:28,700 --> 00:59:33,260
Then just two days before Christmas, day two of the first round motions is scheduled

1198
00:59:33,260 --> 00:59:35,140
to continue if needed.

1199
00:59:35,140 --> 00:59:42,500
There are also already second round motion states scheduled coming up in March of 2025.

1200
00:59:42,500 --> 00:59:48,780
The day before my birthday, they've even already scheduled juror orientation.

1201
00:59:48,780 --> 00:59:54,740
And then just a few short days later, they apparently anticipate the start of a 12 person

1202
00:59:54,740 --> 00:59:58,420
jury trial to begin in early August 2025.

1203
00:59:58,420 --> 01:00:01,860
I hope I don't get a jury summons.

1204
01:00:01,860 --> 01:00:02,860
I know.

1205
01:00:02,860 --> 01:00:03,860
Actually, I do.

1206
01:00:03,860 --> 01:00:04,860
Guilty!

1207
01:00:04,860 --> 01:00:08,420
As soon as I show up, they'll be like, "You know these people?"

1208
01:00:08,420 --> 01:00:09,420
Yes, guilty!

1209
01:00:09,420 --> 01:00:10,420
You want dismissed.

1210
01:00:10,420 --> 01:00:14,740
Is that not mind blowing?

1211
01:00:14,740 --> 01:00:15,980
No, that is.

1212
01:00:15,980 --> 01:00:22,300
The fact that it's actually being done and carried out right now is what's mind blowing,

1213
01:00:22,300 --> 01:00:26,420
especially with all the evidence that was stacked up against this person.

1214
01:00:26,420 --> 01:00:35,780
Well, and I will say this, I do think what little that I've been able to glean from not

1215
01:00:35,780 --> 01:00:40,300
just the court documents, but the little bit of reporting that has come out about it where

1216
01:00:40,300 --> 01:00:46,060
there's some interpretation provided by other journalists.

1217
01:00:46,060 --> 01:00:53,380
It seems like this may not really be a situation where it's like, "Oh, you guys didn't have enough

1218
01:00:53,380 --> 01:01:00,580
evidence, but I do think there...it's more of a procedural issue."

1219
01:01:00,580 --> 01:01:08,060
So certain types of evidence, if it's permitted and it shouldn't happen, then that gets struck.

1220
01:01:08,060 --> 01:01:09,860
That can be grounds for a retrial.

1221
01:01:09,860 --> 01:01:18,100
So I think some of this may have more to do with the technical and administrative side than...

1222
01:01:18,100 --> 01:01:19,580
Which is so scary.

1223
01:01:19,580 --> 01:01:23,420
Well, I think, no, it absolutely is scary.

1224
01:01:23,420 --> 01:01:31,140
And I think the problem lies with the fact that it just goes to show that our court system

1225
01:01:31,140 --> 01:01:32,580
is screwed.

1226
01:01:32,580 --> 01:01:39,340
It's screwed up because the discrepancy between everything that had happened leading up

1227
01:01:39,340 --> 01:01:42,700
to that point and now they're like, "Oh, well, we're just going to give you a retrial."

1228
01:01:42,700 --> 01:01:44,380
And it's just like, "What?

1229
01:01:44,380 --> 01:01:49,460
You have a recorded conversation with them admitting that they planned it."

1230
01:01:49,460 --> 01:01:51,620
But, "Oh, no, it's probably too big."

1231
01:01:51,620 --> 01:01:57,620
I mean, well, I was just going to say, I don't know what pieces of evidence are being excluded

1232
01:01:57,620 --> 01:01:59,580
from the previous trial at this point.

1233
01:01:59,580 --> 01:02:06,100
So I've just...I've never really stumbled into a case that suddenly developing again,

1234
01:02:06,100 --> 01:02:14,500
quite like this before, usually I go into it knowing because that's how it comes to my attention.

1235
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:20,580
The fact that it's being reopened is how it's sort of like back in the ether, if you will.

1236
01:02:20,580 --> 01:02:21,580
Who approved that?

1237
01:02:21,580 --> 01:02:25,140
Doesn't that have to be approved by a judge or something?

1238
01:02:25,140 --> 01:02:26,140
Yeah.

1239
01:02:26,140 --> 01:02:27,140
Yeah.

1240
01:02:27,140 --> 01:02:28,140
I mean, yeah, judges were involved.

1241
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:29,140
I know.

1242
01:02:29,140 --> 01:02:30,140
She's just like, "I want answers."

1243
01:02:30,140 --> 01:02:32,140
No, I do because this doesn't mean...

1244
01:02:32,140 --> 01:02:37,700
Because you know if you were me, if this was you or me, not saying we would murder anybody.

1245
01:02:37,700 --> 01:02:41,580
But if this was you or me, they would be like, "Oh, they went to hell.

1246
01:02:41,580 --> 01:02:42,580
That's it.

1247
01:02:42,580 --> 01:02:43,580
They're going to die."

1248
01:02:43,580 --> 01:02:44,580
They went to hell.

1249
01:02:44,580 --> 01:02:45,580
Yeah, like ours.

1250
01:02:45,580 --> 01:02:49,260
It would be like sealed, signed, delivered, that's it.

1251
01:02:49,260 --> 01:02:51,060
There would be no retrial.

1252
01:02:51,060 --> 01:02:53,060
And even if we did ask for one, they'd be like, "Eh."

1253
01:02:53,060 --> 01:02:54,060
You know what I mean?

1254
01:02:54,060 --> 01:02:56,060
So that's why I just...

1255
01:02:56,060 --> 01:02:57,060
It blows my mind.

1256
01:02:57,060 --> 01:02:58,060
I don't know.

1257
01:02:58,060 --> 01:02:59,580
To me, it seems like...

1258
01:02:59,580 --> 01:03:01,540
I'm sorry, I'm so passionate about this.

1259
01:03:01,540 --> 01:03:02,540
I just don't feel like...

1260
01:03:02,540 --> 01:03:06,180
I feel like a lot of times the people who are supposed to be held accountable, a lot of

1261
01:03:06,180 --> 01:03:10,140
times don't get held accountable for the stuff that that gets done.

1262
01:03:10,140 --> 01:03:13,500
And yes, they went to prison, but now it's being reopened.

1263
01:03:13,500 --> 01:03:18,300
That means that they could literally just be like, "Oh, you never committed this murder."

1264
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:20,460
Yeah, I mean, it's very possible.

1265
01:03:20,460 --> 01:03:26,380
Obviously, we're not going to know the outcome from this for quite a while.

1266
01:03:26,380 --> 01:03:34,700
And some of the details of what's changed are not exactly...

1267
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:40,860
It's a lot of legalese, and I'm not an attorney or a prosecutor.

1268
01:03:40,860 --> 01:03:47,460
I do think that they've made it clear that there were some procedural issues.

1269
01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:48,460
They're...

1270
01:03:48,460 --> 01:03:53,900
We're definitely items included in the court proceedings that shouldn't have been.

1271
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:56,420
Part of me wants to really dig into that.

1272
01:03:56,420 --> 01:03:59,620
I've shared a little bit...

1273
01:03:59,620 --> 01:04:03,060
The bombshell is that this is being reopened.

1274
01:04:03,060 --> 01:04:04,980
I do...

1275
01:04:04,980 --> 01:04:12,900
If we are able to learn a little bit more as it develops, I feel like that's when I would

1276
01:04:12,900 --> 01:04:20,100
kind of want to share a little bit more about the case and how now it's proceeding.

1277
01:04:20,100 --> 01:04:21,100
Yeah.

1278
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:23,220
I mean, some of that...

1279
01:04:23,220 --> 01:04:27,460
There's a lot of things that we're just not going to know until the court proceedings take

1280
01:04:27,460 --> 01:04:30,460
place oftentimes.

1281
01:04:30,460 --> 01:04:31,460
Yeah.

1282
01:04:31,460 --> 01:04:38,980
Because the way that a lot of the court records work when you're looking at the case numbers

1283
01:04:38,980 --> 01:04:44,180
in Smart Search is you're just seeing kind of line items and dates.

1284
01:04:44,180 --> 01:04:50,020
It's not giving you very detailed information.

1285
01:04:50,020 --> 01:04:56,540
There aren't typically transcripts attached per se.

1286
01:04:56,540 --> 01:04:58,940
There's no interpretation.

1287
01:04:58,940 --> 01:05:05,620
This is literally just on this date, we will be providing jurors orientation.

1288
01:05:05,620 --> 01:05:08,180
And that's it.

1289
01:05:08,180 --> 01:05:09,180
I don't know.

1290
01:05:09,180 --> 01:05:19,020
This is just really wild to me, though, because we've talked about cases that were developing

1291
01:05:19,020 --> 01:05:20,020
as...

1292
01:05:20,020 --> 01:05:22,020
No, that's not what I want to say.

1293
01:05:22,020 --> 01:05:29,780
Well, see, my whole thing is like, it's surprising, but then at the same time, it's not.

1294
01:05:29,780 --> 01:05:33,260
If you think about it, because police officers are human.

1295
01:05:33,260 --> 01:05:34,260
Allegedly?

1296
01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:35,260
Allegedly.

1297
01:05:35,260 --> 01:05:36,260
Allegedly.

1298
01:05:36,260 --> 01:05:40,460
But the whole thing is...

1299
01:05:40,460 --> 01:05:45,060
Since we weren't there, we don't know how they processed, especially being that Lynn was

1300
01:05:45,060 --> 01:05:47,380
on the police force.

1301
01:05:47,380 --> 01:05:51,740
I wouldn't be surprised if things were mishandled.

1302
01:05:51,740 --> 01:05:57,020
So we've talked about this before on the show, though we're not network backed journalists.

1303
01:05:57,020 --> 01:06:04,780
We're just people working to create, hopefully the highest quality podcast and in general content

1304
01:06:04,780 --> 01:06:07,900
that we can in between everything else in our lives.

1305
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:09,620
So I don't know.

1306
01:06:09,620 --> 01:06:14,060
I was just really happy to be able to present something that feels like kind of more like

1307
01:06:14,060 --> 01:06:15,060
breaking news.

1308
01:06:15,060 --> 01:06:17,780
I didn't anticipate that going in.

1309
01:06:17,780 --> 01:06:20,500
I had no idea about the retrial.

1310
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:21,500
I had no idea.

1311
01:06:21,500 --> 01:06:26,500
I almost didn't include it because it's kind of buried in a lot of the source material.

1312
01:06:26,500 --> 01:06:29,500
It just is like, everything's about the initial case.

1313
01:06:29,500 --> 01:06:33,660
Absolutely, because even when I sent you information about it, I mean, they had little snippets,

1314
01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:36,420
but I was like, nothing to do with the retrial, though.

1315
01:06:36,420 --> 01:06:37,420
No.

1316
01:06:37,420 --> 01:06:38,420
Yeah.

1317
01:06:38,420 --> 01:06:40,580
And I bet you a lot of people don't know that.

1318
01:06:40,580 --> 01:06:42,580
I bet you a lot of people don't know that.

1319
01:06:42,580 --> 01:06:44,380
They probably kept it on the hush.

1320
01:06:44,380 --> 01:06:45,380
I do.

1321
01:06:45,380 --> 01:06:46,380
Yeah.

1322
01:06:46,380 --> 01:06:51,260
I mean, I think after a certain point, it's just, you know, there's more current stories.

1323
01:06:51,260 --> 01:06:53,740
And so that's going to be what gets the air time.

1324
01:06:53,740 --> 01:06:59,140
But there's actually more stuff that I didn't put into my regular notes.

1325
01:06:59,140 --> 01:07:02,620
But I'm going to save that for a little Patreon mini-sode.

1326
01:07:02,620 --> 01:07:03,620
Oh my gosh.

1327
01:07:03,620 --> 01:07:04,620
Yeah.

1328
01:07:04,620 --> 01:07:06,980
A couple more pages, I think, for them.

1329
01:07:06,980 --> 01:07:10,820
But, you know, just a little mini-sode action.

1330
01:07:10,820 --> 01:07:14,340
But for now, you want to get into some tarot.

1331
01:07:14,340 --> 01:07:17,020
Oh, I think I was going to say get into some tea.

1332
01:07:17,020 --> 01:07:19,780
And I was like, I guess I'd throw in tea.

1333
01:07:19,780 --> 01:07:23,540
I was like, tea, what kind of tea we talking about.

1334
01:07:23,540 --> 01:07:26,540
Oh, how beautiful.

1335
01:07:26,540 --> 01:07:27,540
Beautiful.

1336
01:07:27,540 --> 01:07:31,580
We already did our pre-shuff.

1337
01:07:31,580 --> 01:07:32,580
Okay.

1338
01:07:32,580 --> 01:07:33,580
Everyone?

1339
01:07:33,580 --> 01:07:34,580
Okay.

1340
01:07:34,580 --> 01:07:35,580
I'm going to draw.

1341
01:07:35,580 --> 01:07:38,180
Very professional in my shuffling skills.

1342
01:07:38,180 --> 01:07:39,180
Yeah.

1343
01:07:39,180 --> 01:07:40,180
Yeah.

1344
01:07:40,180 --> 01:07:41,180
It was expert.

1345
01:07:41,180 --> 01:07:45,940
All comical to try to watch you shuffle with those nails.

1346
01:07:45,940 --> 01:07:46,940
They're short.

1347
01:07:46,940 --> 01:07:48,940
What are you talking about?

1348
01:07:48,940 --> 01:07:50,940
Well, I'm comparison to some.

1349
01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:51,940
They're short.

1350
01:07:51,940 --> 01:07:53,780
That's no.

1351
01:07:53,780 --> 01:07:55,420
You're a crazy person.

1352
01:07:55,420 --> 01:07:56,420
Okay.

1353
01:07:56,420 --> 01:07:58,220
Do you know what one it is?

1354
01:07:58,220 --> 01:07:59,220
Yeah.

1355
01:07:59,220 --> 01:08:00,220
So Three of Wands.

1356
01:08:00,220 --> 01:08:01,220
Oh.

1357
01:08:01,220 --> 01:08:02,220
Okay.

1358
01:08:02,220 --> 01:08:03,220
That's what we got?

1359
01:08:03,220 --> 01:08:04,220
Yeah.

1360
01:08:04,220 --> 01:08:07,660
We got a bird.

1361
01:08:07,660 --> 01:08:09,220
She's pretty musical today.

1362
01:08:09,220 --> 01:08:10,220
Yeah.

1363
01:08:10,220 --> 01:08:12,380
I'm actually all the time.

1364
01:08:12,380 --> 01:08:13,380
You don't know.

1365
01:08:13,380 --> 01:08:19,060
You are actually on the whole, you're fairly musical.

1366
01:08:19,060 --> 01:08:20,060
Yes.

1367
01:08:20,060 --> 01:08:22,060
I should have been a Disney character.

1368
01:08:22,060 --> 01:08:23,340
It's never too late.

1369
01:08:23,340 --> 01:08:32,620
Our key words are creativity and skill, self-expression, growth, competence, and manifestation.

1370
01:08:32,620 --> 01:08:35,300
So what that stands for?

1371
01:08:35,300 --> 01:08:36,300
Yeah.

1372
01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:37,300
Okay.

1373
01:08:37,300 --> 01:08:39,700
Now is the time to show the world what you can do.

1374
01:08:39,700 --> 01:08:44,900
You've worked hard to develop your talents and have confidence in your abilities.

1375
01:08:44,900 --> 01:08:49,820
You feel passionately about what you do and believe you can inspire others.

1376
01:08:49,820 --> 01:08:50,820
Express yourself.

1377
01:08:50,820 --> 01:08:52,660
I'm not really.

1378
01:08:52,660 --> 01:08:58,300
I'm not sure that I'm finding the connection yet with the case.

1379
01:08:58,300 --> 01:09:00,300
Lynn express themselves.

1380
01:09:00,300 --> 01:09:01,300
Yeah.

1381
01:09:01,300 --> 01:09:02,300
Yeah.

1382
01:09:02,300 --> 01:09:03,300
Sure, dead.

1383
01:09:03,300 --> 01:09:04,300
Some of the expression I feel like--

1384
01:09:04,300 --> 01:09:05,300
There was an expression.

1385
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:08,140
A long lasting impression of that expression.

1386
01:09:08,140 --> 01:09:09,140
Yeah.

1387
01:09:09,140 --> 01:09:15,220
I-- you know, the one thing I will say is it is kind of a trio that's associated with

1388
01:09:15,220 --> 01:09:16,780
the conspiracy.

1389
01:09:16,780 --> 01:09:20,900
So three of ones in that respect, at least, kind of makes sense to me.

1390
01:09:20,900 --> 01:09:27,340
But I'm going to read the rest of the interpretation.

1391
01:09:27,340 --> 01:09:33,300
You've developed a project, business, creative endeavor, or other venture, and now you're ready

1392
01:09:33,300 --> 01:09:35,300
to share it with others.

1393
01:09:35,300 --> 01:09:37,580
Like maybe you're co-conspirators.

1394
01:09:37,580 --> 01:09:41,300
I'm all about the conspiracies.

1395
01:09:41,300 --> 01:09:42,300
Yeah.

1396
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:45,780
I mean, this one I'm not a fan of, I have to say.

1397
01:09:45,780 --> 01:09:49,820
By devoting yourself fully to your goal, you can succeed.

1398
01:09:49,820 --> 01:09:55,380
Do what's necessary to bring your dreams to fruition.

1399
01:09:55,380 --> 01:10:01,140
In a reading about money, the upright three shows increase and financial support coming

1400
01:10:01,140 --> 01:10:02,340
to you.

1401
01:10:02,340 --> 01:10:07,540
You may have to spend money to make money, but this card promises success.

1402
01:10:07,540 --> 01:10:08,540
Oh, man.

1403
01:10:08,540 --> 01:10:14,980
I feel like just the specific wording on that, because remember, they didn't actually spend

1404
01:10:14,980 --> 01:10:17,940
the money because they got blocked out of the safety deposit box.

1405
01:10:17,940 --> 01:10:18,940
That's true.

1406
01:10:18,940 --> 01:10:21,980
That you got to spend money to make money.

1407
01:10:21,980 --> 01:10:25,900
Like I'm sure that there was probably an element of like, oh, I'm going to collect on

1408
01:10:25,900 --> 01:10:26,900
the life insurance.

1409
01:10:26,900 --> 01:10:29,780
Oh, that makes me so nervous.

1410
01:10:29,780 --> 01:10:32,500
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1411
01:10:32,500 --> 01:10:37,660
In a reading about work, this card suggests an exciting time when your efforts start to

1412
01:10:37,660 --> 01:10:39,060
bear fruit.

1413
01:10:39,060 --> 01:10:44,020
You're giving it your all, inspiring others and attracting people who are eager to help

1414
01:10:44,020 --> 01:10:45,340
you.

1415
01:10:45,340 --> 01:10:48,900
Your ideas begin to take form.

1416
01:10:48,900 --> 01:10:50,900
Collaboration can be beneficial.

1417
01:10:50,900 --> 01:10:51,900
Okay.

1418
01:10:51,900 --> 01:10:57,260
If you asked about a relationship, the three indicates a commitment, an engagement or

1419
01:10:57,260 --> 01:10:58,260
marriage.

1420
01:10:58,260 --> 01:10:59,260
Yeah, that irony.

1421
01:10:59,260 --> 01:11:00,260
Yeah.

1422
01:11:00,260 --> 01:11:06,580
You and a partner express passionate feelings for each other and celebrate your love, or maybe

1423
01:11:06,580 --> 01:11:08,980
you super don't.

1424
01:11:08,980 --> 01:11:13,020
Could be like hard left in completely the other direction.

1425
01:11:13,020 --> 01:11:20,860
You know, a lot of times, especially when DV is the thing, when you split, there is that

1426
01:11:20,860 --> 01:11:22,620
I don't want you to be with anybody else.

1427
01:11:22,620 --> 01:11:23,620
Right.

1428
01:11:23,620 --> 01:11:24,940
If I can't have you, then no one can.

1429
01:11:24,940 --> 01:11:25,940
Yeah.

1430
01:11:25,940 --> 01:11:27,540
So this kind of actually does work if you make...

1431
01:11:27,540 --> 01:11:28,540
Yeah, that does.

1432
01:11:28,540 --> 01:11:29,540
Yeah, that's what it's just saying.

1433
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:30,540
And it's what it's saying.

1434
01:11:30,540 --> 01:11:31,540
It kind of makes sense.

1435
01:11:31,540 --> 01:11:32,540
Yeah.

1436
01:11:32,540 --> 01:11:33,540
Ooh, I don't like that.

1437
01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:34,540
Okay.

1438
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:35,900
Well, there's an extra excerpt.

1439
01:11:35,900 --> 01:11:38,540
And I don't think we're going to like this either.

1440
01:11:38,540 --> 01:11:39,540
So.

1441
01:11:39,540 --> 01:11:40,540
Yay.

1442
01:11:40,540 --> 01:11:41,540
Don't assume.

1443
01:11:41,540 --> 01:11:42,540
I like everything.

1444
01:11:42,540 --> 01:11:43,540
Okay.

1445
01:11:43,540 --> 01:11:46,220
I'll be surprised if you like this, but I guess we'll see.

1446
01:11:46,220 --> 01:11:52,860
Hidden Alliance's work to move you into your authentic vocation as soon as you begin to

1447
01:11:52,860 --> 01:11:54,860
commit to it.

1448
01:11:54,860 --> 01:11:57,860
Okay.

1449
01:11:57,860 --> 01:12:02,700
Hidden Alliance of maybe three people who hidden gem.

1450
01:12:02,700 --> 01:12:03,700
There.

1451
01:12:03,700 --> 01:12:04,700
Decided to...

1452
01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:05,700
The leg.

1453
01:12:05,700 --> 01:12:06,900
You know, for murder.

1454
01:12:06,900 --> 01:12:13,700
And then maybe your authentic vocation is perhaps not law enforcement, but being detained

1455
01:12:13,700 --> 01:12:14,700
by people.

1456
01:12:14,700 --> 01:12:15,700
I was like, I was like jail time.

1457
01:12:15,700 --> 01:12:16,700
Yeah.

1458
01:12:16,700 --> 01:12:18,700
I just say it for a certain time.

1459
01:12:18,700 --> 01:12:20,700
Maybe it's not that, but it's...

1460
01:12:20,700 --> 01:12:23,380
That is so weird, though.

1461
01:12:23,380 --> 01:12:29,460
Like the way that that is specifically worded and the extra excerpt, it's like, it's fitting.

1462
01:12:29,460 --> 01:12:30,780
Yeah.

1463
01:12:30,780 --> 01:12:33,980
I don't like it, but it is fitting.

1464
01:12:33,980 --> 01:12:34,980
I like it.

1465
01:12:34,980 --> 01:12:35,980
I think it's...

1466
01:12:35,980 --> 01:12:38,820
No, I mean, I hate that that's the situation.

1467
01:12:38,820 --> 01:12:39,820
No, yeah.

1468
01:12:39,820 --> 01:12:40,820
Yeah.

1469
01:12:40,820 --> 01:12:41,820
All right.

1470
01:12:41,820 --> 01:12:43,820
Well, I think we should wrap it up.

1471
01:12:43,820 --> 01:12:46,820
Wrap it before you tap it.

1472
01:12:46,820 --> 01:12:47,820
Okay.

1473
01:12:47,820 --> 01:12:51,780
Well, the peanut gallery has spoken.

1474
01:12:51,780 --> 01:12:56,860
If you love listening to our episodes each week, consider becoming a Patreon to support

1475
01:12:56,860 --> 01:12:58,360
the show.

1476
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,620
It's for the show, you guys.

1477
01:13:00,620 --> 01:13:03,140
It's for the show.

1478
01:13:03,140 --> 01:13:07,780
Patreon is a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits.

1479
01:13:07,780 --> 01:13:13,900
Every member gets a personalized welcome card, a shout out in an upcoming episode.

1480
01:13:13,900 --> 01:13:17,620
And we send you like a little mini tarot reading in your welcome card.

1481
01:13:17,620 --> 01:13:18,820
It's very fancy.

1482
01:13:18,820 --> 01:13:22,740
People enjoy them.

1483
01:13:22,740 --> 01:13:24,380
We tag us on their social media because we beg them.

1484
01:13:24,380 --> 01:13:28,100
We want to know what tarot card they get.

1485
01:13:28,100 --> 01:13:30,620
We're nosy like that.

1486
01:13:30,620 --> 01:13:35,620
If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest way is to support us

1487
01:13:35,620 --> 01:13:37,500
are absolutely free.

1488
01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:39,580
I mean, you could do both though, too.

1489
01:13:39,580 --> 01:13:41,540
If you don't support us, you're dead to us.

1490
01:13:41,540 --> 01:13:43,540
Just say it.

1491
01:13:43,540 --> 01:13:44,540
Very on-brand.

1492
01:13:44,540 --> 01:13:45,540
Very on-brand.

1493
01:13:45,540 --> 01:13:46,540
Yeah.

1494
01:13:46,540 --> 01:13:52,260
Tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about us or leave us a five-star review

1495
01:13:52,260 --> 01:13:54,820
on any platform you can.

1496
01:13:54,820 --> 01:14:00,940
If you have any true crime, paranormal or witchy stories to submit for our listener appreciation

1497
01:14:00,940 --> 01:14:10,740
episodes, the creepy people, chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomocides@gmail.com.

1498
01:14:10,740 --> 01:14:15,900
Or you can use our handy Google contact link in the episode description.

1499
01:14:15,900 --> 01:14:16,900
I made it.

1500
01:14:16,900 --> 01:14:17,900
Use it.

1501
01:14:17,900 --> 01:14:18,900
Click it.

1502
01:14:18,900 --> 01:14:21,020
You're always welcome to remain anonymous.

1503
01:14:21,020 --> 01:14:25,500
And remember, they don't have to be stories from the Pacific Northwest if you'd like to

1504
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:26,500
share.

1505
01:14:26,500 --> 01:14:31,820
Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of the tarot cards,

1506
01:14:31,820 --> 01:14:38,540
our beautiful altar setups, sometimes we open presents, and there's backstage shenanigans.

1507
01:14:38,540 --> 01:14:39,540
A lot of shenanigans.

1508
01:14:39,540 --> 01:14:40,540
I'm not going to lie.

1509
01:14:40,540 --> 01:14:42,460
We're pretty shenanigan heavy.

1510
01:14:42,460 --> 01:14:46,500
You can find our link tree in the description of this episode to check out all the creepy

1511
01:14:46,500 --> 01:14:48,260
fun we have to offer.

1512
01:14:48,260 --> 01:14:52,060
Or you can visit our website because I made one of those too.

1513
01:14:52,060 --> 01:14:56,220
Who do the nudes come into effect?

1514
01:14:56,220 --> 01:14:57,220
That's only fans.

1515
01:14:57,220 --> 01:14:58,220
I don't think they answer it.

1516
01:14:58,220 --> 01:14:59,220
No free feet.

1517
01:14:59,220 --> 01:15:00,220
We talked about this.

1518
01:15:00,220 --> 01:15:01,220
Have a creepy ass day.

1519
01:15:01,220 --> 01:15:02,220
See you next Tuesday.

1520
01:15:02,220 --> 01:15:09,220
I mean, probably not Andrea because she's a guest.

1521
01:15:09,220 --> 01:15:10,220
Oh, that's true.

1522
01:15:10,220 --> 01:15:17,220
You want to say that she's already used to hosting.

1523
01:15:17,220 --> 01:15:19,060
Yeah, this is already my permanent.

1524
01:15:19,060 --> 01:15:20,060
I just moved in.

1525
01:15:20,060 --> 01:15:24,940
I moved in today because I decided that she's got the collapsible cot under the desk.

1526
01:15:24,940 --> 01:15:25,940
You get it.

1527
01:15:25,940 --> 01:15:27,100
I was sleeping between you and Chris.

1528
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:28,100
What are you talking about?

1529
01:15:28,100 --> 01:15:29,100
She's not taking my job.

1530
01:15:29,100 --> 01:15:30,100
Oh my god.

1531
01:15:30,100 --> 01:15:33,100
I didn't know you were there.

1532
01:15:33,100 --> 01:15:34,100
Girl, you get you lucky.

1533
01:15:34,100 --> 01:15:35,100
I was like, whoops.

1534
01:15:35,100 --> 01:15:38,100
I didn't know Kung Fu.

1535
01:15:38,100 --> 01:15:43,180
Okay, so have a creepy ass day.

1536
01:15:43,180 --> 01:15:44,580
See you next Tuesday.

1537
01:15:44,580 --> 01:15:45,580
Yeah.

1538
01:15:45,580 --> 01:15:46,580
Okay.

1539
01:15:46,580 --> 01:15:47,580
Okay.

1540
01:15:47,580 --> 01:15:48,580
So do we do three, two, one?

1541
01:15:48,580 --> 01:15:49,580
Yeah, we can.

1542
01:15:49,580 --> 01:15:51,060
You counted off and I'll just start when you start.

1543
01:15:51,060 --> 01:15:52,060
Pressure.

1544
01:15:52,060 --> 01:15:53,060
I don't know if I can do it.

1545
01:15:53,060 --> 01:15:54,060
No, that's fine.

1546
01:15:54,060 --> 01:15:56,060
So three, two, I did say.

1547
01:15:56,060 --> 01:15:57,060
I did say.

1548
01:15:57,060 --> 01:15:58,060
Wait, I forgot already.

1549
01:15:58,060 --> 01:15:59,060
What was to say?

1550
01:15:59,060 --> 01:16:00,060
I forgot already.

1551
01:16:00,060 --> 01:16:01,060
What was to say?