Okay, so word of advice.
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or, you know, just a separate
personal phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence
of police or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of
their own criminals.
Yeah, yeah, stay too bad.
Hi, Cassie…?
Wait, this is not Cassie. [Record Scratch]
Your turn.
Oh.
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, Creepy People.
Helloooo.
I love how you automatically turned your head like we kind of do whenever I do the, "Hello!"
You just like, you like your body language responded to.
Yeah.
Yeah, you're like, "I'm well-trained."
Yeah.
I was going to say, "How many years of friendship?"
Yeah, too many.
I've been well-trained.
Yeah, I'd prefer that we didn't tell people.
Oh, okay.
They don't need to know.
I just met her.
Yeah.
Spring chicken this one.
Yes.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
Back, what are we doing here?
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides, where
we chat about true crime, the paranormal, and all things spooky, creepy, weird, or maybe
vaguely interesting to us in the Pacific Northwest, the PNW, if you're nasty.
She's like appalled.
She's clutching her pearls.
So we also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode so that we get a little bit of
deeper insight into our topic for the day.
At the end?
Yeah.
So stick around if you're into that.
I mean, you have to stick around here either.
I'm out of here.
Mom?
I got to go, girl.
Yeah.
I just remember I have a thing.
I have a thing.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, that's our intro.
So should I save this gifty for that?
No, no, no.
Do it now because it's going to be perfect.
It's for the theme.
Oh, my.
Okay.
You're going to love it if you don't.
So Andrea asked me, because by the way, this is Andrea.
I don't even know if we said that.
No, we never do.
No.
I just, you know, I just go with it.
You're like, "Hey, Cassie, hey, girl!"
No!
How you doing?
I just thought that would be funny.
And then I got tripped up by my own little switcheroo there.
So Andrea, you asked me, "What's up?"
You asked me, "Okay, so I've never guessed it on podcast before.
Am I supposed to bring a gift?"
And I was like, "Yes, I was like, it's not an expectation at all, but to any future guests."
You know, I'm just saying this is, this is how to get...
I've said a standard.
And now the bar is pretty high.
So you guys better deliver at this point.
Yeah.
I mean, we've had some of our Patreon come on and guess with us and do like a episode
where we were talking about their stories.
And we did end up receiving a gift.
I don't know what this is yet, but we were gifted a couple of bottles of wine.
And of course, as you all know, that is always a good gift.
Yes.
Around here.
Yes.
We know the true weaknesses around here.
Oh.
Yeah.
Oh.
My goodness.
Right in time for the holidays.
This is how I feel whenever I hear stories about people at like the Black Friday sales,
which as we're recording this, it is Saturday after Thanksgiving.
"Well, that escalated quickly."
I hope there are going to be a little bit more blood on it, but you know, you can murder
someone with a cup, right?
I just feel like that's probably an appropriate amount.
Just make sure you get like the full experience here.
I feel like a little bit more blood.
And then you would know that the person was murdered, but hey, whatever.
Hey, let's see.
We love a mystery.
Yeah, it's true.
It's true.
This is perfect.
This is so cute.
Yeah.
I was like, girl, I have to get something for the podcast.
And this is about murder.
So it's perfect.
Well, that escalated quickly.
I'm not a most foul.
So this is also a story that you kind of picked out.
Actually, a client told me about it.
Yeah.
And then I said, you're the one that suggested this one because I said, hey, on the off chance,
if we were to do a really themy episode because anybody who knows us knows we love a theme
or themy bitches around here.
Love anything that's like festive or special edition or the holiday, we just, we got to
have it.
It's a real PSL vibe.
Yeah.
And doing one related to your current profession.
Yeah.
In the beauty world.
Well, it's just, it's what's weird to me is that stuff like this is actually not out
the ordinary.
Like if you know anything about the hair industry, out of the sound so weird, but there's
a lot of drugs.
There's a lot of like, there's a lot of fishy shit that goes on.
So is it really out of the norm?
No.
Okay.
That's a good lead in.
So you guys, if you were expecting puppies and kittens for some reason, it's not that day.
Still, still not.
Uh, will not be that.
So "anywhosel".
Well, whosel for Whoville, right?
Oh, yeah.
So you got The Grinch tree.
Yeah.
But there you go.
Yeah, the little Grinch tree.
Okay.
All right.
I'm going to get into it.
Today we delve into a shocking case out of Gladstone, Oregon.
A story that seems almost unbelievable unless you're “un-Andrea".
“un-Andrea".
I was trying to mix a couple of words there.
You know what?
It's okay.
I like I said, I had to try to anything.
So yeah, but I don't think we need to adopt that.
“un-Andrea".
Because you're uninterested in what I have to say.
Oh my God.
No, unless you're on Andrea.
And you really, this is just another Tuesday for you apparently.
Yes.
Oh, boy.
This is a story of Debbie Higbee Benton, a 54-year-old salon owner who was beloved both before and
after her brutal murder in May 2011.
As investigators dug deeper into her death, the surrounding community would be left shocked
as a wide web of secrets.
In a sinister plot involving her estranged spouse, former police sergeant Lynn Edward Benton
and two accomplices was laid bare.
Well, the thing about Gladstone is it's small enough that this would shake things up.
Like this happened in 2011.
People are still talking about it.
That's why when someone's like, did you hear about it?
I'm like, no bitch, I'm not from Gladstone, what you mean.
But it's a big deal.
They still talk about it.
Oh yeah.
No, I believe it.
And I think obviously we'll get into it here.
But there's a lot about this case that sort of makes it a little bit more sensational.
Debbie Higbee Benton and Lynn Benton met in 2008 and went on to tie the knot in October
2010.
So not married for a long time.
Here for a good time, not a long time.
And actually not a good time.
So, oh, I relate to that so well.
Not a so well.
Then no, don't not.
Yeah.
Another major life changing event, Lynn had reportedly begun transitioning from female
to male.
When the couple married in 2010, Lynn had also dropped the E from their birth name Lynne.
So Lynn spelled L-Y-N-N versus more female.
The birth name was L-Y-N-N-E.
Okay.
So we dropped the E. That's a little bit just strictly like stereotipically speaking.
It's a little bit more of a masculine.
I don't know why that is, but it's just sort of the etymology of the name.
They also changed their middle name from Irene to Edward.
Taking the box for male on the marriage license application.
Because I wondered how they were able to get married.
But the union was legally recognized in the state of Oregon, despite the fact that same
sex marriage hadn't been widely recognized in the US at this point.
There just wasn't a specific or stringent gender verification that was required at the
time.
So I had wondered how the couple was able to get married because this is two biological
females at this point.
Lynn just checked the box for male.
It's that simple.
Okay.
So and we don't do any sort of a verification, which I thought, okay, I guess that makes sense.
What kind of resources could we possibly have to be able to, that would just be so?
We're going to look up their skirt to see.
I mean, it doesn't work like that.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, no.
I mean, listen, I think maybe starting in January after the, you know, we need a drink for
this much.
Yeah.
We get the little intense.
Should I need more?
Regardless, the marriage was far from idyllic.
Their relationship quickly began to utterly deteriorate.
According to witness statements and court records, ultimately devolving into what sounded
like a potentially very abusive relationship dynamic and living situation.
And it doesn't indicate where the abuse is coming from.
It does.
Yeah.
So we'll get to that.
Oh, yeah.
Debbie initially supported Lynn's decision to transition, but later expressed concerns
or doubts of some kind, though it's not exactly clear what specifically they were, like
what their issue was around the transition.
Though reportedly, whatever the issue was proved significant enough that Debbie asked that
they bring the transition to a stop, which, can you do that?
Can you do that?
That's a lot of stuff.
Yeah.
Can you do that?
Doesn't that, when that mess with you, if you just like, you were, because they're on
hormones, correct?
You know, at this point, I would assume I don't have a lot of specifics in terms of,
and there's a good reason for why there's certain information that's not necessarily explicit.
We'll get to that too.
But a lot of that would be considered as like a standard.
That would be protected with HIPAA, you know, things like that.
I mean, that's protected medical information.
So it's not necessarily completely clear that they were doing hormone therapy or, you know,
what those specific treatments or interventions were, but I would imagine so.
By April 2011, tensions had escalated significantly.
This was just weeks prior to Debbie's murder.
And ultimately, the couple separated.
Debbie moved out, taking with her photographs of bruises she claimed Lynn had inflicted.
So Lynn being the one who is transitioning.
I would not be surprised if part of the issue there was that obviously this is someone
who does not want to discontinue the transition and being pressured by a partner to, you know,
at least pause that process.
I could see that there maybe would be some resentment there.
It's not in any way to excuse any of what is about to happen.
No, but it makes sense.
I mean, yeah, you could see where obviously that would be something that would cause a rift.
That would cause tension.
Their split was acrimonious.
Vocab word of the week.
With arguments about finances and Lynn's alleged temper dominating their interactions.
Are there police reports about any of this?
You know, I didn't really find anything prior to their separation.
There's not, there's not a lot that indicates there was law enforcement involved in domestic
disputes up to this point.
That being said, obviously, Lynn works in law enforcement.
Right.
So that makes it really tricky for a victim of DV to be able to get any sort of help or
assistance from exactly the people that should be protecting them.
Right.
Well, my only thing is like if she's taking pictures with her, obviously it's evidence,
but yeah, I, you would think that instead of just having photos that they would try to
do their due diligence to get some sort of protection against them, because especially
if they're in the police force.
Yes.
Yeah, it can make it really challenging though, because especially someone who is really
well established in their career at this point, and like we've already said, it's a relatively
small jurisdiction when compared to some place, you know, like a more major city like Portland.
Right.
There's a lot of people that even if they're not directly in law enforcement, you have relationships
with people that are, you know, court reporters or, you know, clerks, different things that
it's like you might not be going directly to the cops, but if you're going to seek like
an order of protection, that might be something that they learn about because they have relationships
with people outside of strictly speaking their direct co-workers.
So I actually have like, I have clients that are in the police force.
And I, one thing I found out was Oregon City specifically.
Now, I can't speak for Gladstone because I didn't sort of say anything.
Neighboring city though.
Neighboring city.
But in Oregon City specifically, they pay the police department pay the news to not report
on anything that involves police specifically.
So in Gladstone, since this does involve a police officer, it may never have even come
to service because the fact that they might have done that as well.
I can't fare for that.
I can't speak for Oregon City.
I know police have paid to keep anything that involves the police force on the hush on
the deal.
And whether they're paying for it or they're using, you know, political muscle, whatever that
would be.
I mean, clearly that's not something that we're unaware of as a possibility.
Right.
Yeah.
Now that we've got some of our background context out of the way, let's go forward.
And actually still back in time, you get it.
You're like, yeah, no, no, but that's just what this helps with that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're like, just go with the flow.
You know, as long as my cup is overflow, if I'm good with whatever's exactly my way.
On that fateful day, May 28, 2011, Debbie Higbee Benton's last client left her salon.
The Gladstone Beauty Salon, somewhere between 3.30 and 4 p.m.
She had a previously scheduled dinner event later that evening at 6.
But she never showed up.
That's when two of Debbie's friends became concerned.
They were worried enough that they actually contacted a business nearby to see if someone
might be able to check on Debbie and assuage their fears.
Do they say which one it was?
It may have in the source material.
I think I didn't include that because it was like, well, it's a neighboring business.
Right.
What difference does it make if it was a gas station, a liquor store?
You know what I mean?
There are some details specifically about who they speak with and their response that I
very pointedly did include.
And I think are very interesting.
It's very interesting.
I would imagine it's totally possible she could have gotten tied up with a client.
You know, I mean, maybe you have a color service or something that runs long.
Right.
Like, every time you see me, it never goes as planned.
Never.
Because you'll be like, I just need a touch up in my no-bitch.
You need an entire makeover.
Let's do this.
Yeah.
Start over.
You look like your hairdresser has neglected you.
Never laugh, it's like, I've got to talk to her.
Gosh.
I mean, I'm so busy too.
That is true.
But you've never taken advantage.
That's the one thing about Caitlyn.
She never takes advantage.
I've always, even when I was first doing hair, I always came to her and was like, let me do
your hair, right?
You never took advantage.
You want to took you to the beauty supply store.
You'd always be like, well, are you sure it's okay that I'm here?
I'm like, yes.
You're like, well, if it wasn't, they would have kicked you out.
Exactly.
If you're with me, we're good.
No, you've never taken advantage of it.
So, yeah.
Well, I know it takes a lot of time.
We're both busy and it's, yeah, I don't know.
It works out.
You know what?
It works out.
You become a new woman every single time.
Yeah.
You have to have valid ID to prove to Chris that it's really you after I've done a little
bit.
A little bit.
Yeah.
Just like I made you super blonde the last time and you've never been that blonde before.
You've always just wanted to stick to like the level eight and that's like that we're
going to platinum.
We're doing it because I said so.
And I was like, yes, man.
I was like, I don't know.
Yeah.
And she did.
She straddled me.
Well, I was supposed to be kept as secret.
No.
I'm not about it.
Shh.
I only do that for specific clients.
Okay.
Not everyone gets the straddle.
Okay.
I just want to put that out.
Not everybody gets the straddle.
Yeah.
You know what?
They're going to go back and listen to those old episodes that we did where we have the mirror
magic ads in there.
And they're going to be like, Oh, good.
I found the number.
Well, the number doesn't actually work anymore.
Yeah.
I'll say that.
Yeah.
There's that.
You guys sorry about that.
Sorry about that.
Just my cell phone.
Yeah.
It's okay.
Now we can now we can tag you in the show now.
It's so.
It's so fancy.
I am.
Yeah.
We can play that song.
I'm so.
Oh, I think if you're singing it and it's just a short clip, it's fine.
Yeah.
So I'm so fancy.
Yeah.
You already know.
That's all I know.
Yeah.
You're like, see that was fine.
I don't listen to her songs ever.
The color.
Oh, my God.
But for the record though, if this was us, I'd go fully into panic mode because I know that
like if you have a service or you know, people kind of show up late, things like that, like
this schedule is kind of fluid.
And like, but you would do that.
She has to make me text message her as soon as I get home.
So I do that to everyone.
You would panic.
Caitlyn would be the person that you want to be friends with because she would make sure
you're still alive and breathing.
She's.
Yeah.
You're on top of that.
Yeah.
I, this is so funny because I did this to my mom.
She was going to go to a friends after she left our house on Thanksgiving.
And I was like, okay, I need you to text me when you get there.
And she did.
And I thought that I had already like done at least the tap react or something like responded.
And I forgot for like an hour.
And then I texted her back.
I was like, oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I saw this.
I want you to know that I saw it.
I just forgot to respond because I was like, I don't want people to think that I don't
check.
And then not texting.
Hey, I did my due diligence.
I don't care if you check or not.
I let you know.
So if you don't check it, that's on you.
I don't really care.
Well, I know, but I just think about it.
Like, why the hell am I like because you're a compassionate person.
I know.
No, I'm just saying I just don't want people to think, well, why the hell am I going to the
trouble of texting you?
No, I think you're not even keeping track.
No, no, no, Caitlyn's just a very caring person.
And that's how she is.
That's why we're friends.
Yeah.
She's practically the only one.
So, man, yeah, mother Teresa over here, you just minus the sex trafficking.
Oh, yeah.
You know, it takes a while to adjust to.
There's so many public figures that you're just like, oh, actually, that's not a good thing
anymore.
Yikes.
All right.
Speaking of not good things.
On to the next one.
Yeah.
I guess this is as good a time as any to mention that Debbie's aforementioned a strange
spouse worked for the Gladstone Police Department.
Okay.
Just in case that wasn't like abundantly clear, I feel like I did mention that in.
Yeah.
And I think that's a nut like obviously if you're with a police officer, we've seen
movies like they don't stray from the truth.
Like, they're she was pretty isolated.
Let's be honest because there's no way that you can just go shun from the rooftops that
your spouse is abusing you when they're a police officer.
Now, have they served the whole time or were they were or did they just recently
become a police officer or before?
No, they had already been a police officer for quite some time.
And I do have a little bit more information about their 10 years.
So yeah.
I'll stop talking.
Yeah.
No, you're good.
Okay.
But it's, you know, if you have somebody that works in law enforcement and that's your
spouse in my notes that says, so I guess in that case, I just have to call the SWAT team
to be safe.
Yes.
Obviously.
Because it's like, who do you call when, you know, the cops are the one that are putting
you in danger?
Right.
So it's so special.
Well, I just put it in.
Yeah.
I put it in the strips appropriate.
Maybe not.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I don't know either.
We don't really worry about the appropriateness too much.
But no, but it's absolutely true.
It's like, who do you call when your spouse is in the middle of like the dilemma?
Because you don't call it police to be like, right?
Right.
And this is not the first case that we've talked about where the victim, you know, was in
a relationship with somebody who worked in law enforcement where spoiler alert, this
exact same thing happened.
So fortunately, they did not have any children because we talked about a Crystal Brame from
up in the Bremerton area who her ex-husband basically attacked her in a strip mall parking
law and killed her and himself in front of their children.
What?
When?
This, I mean, I can't remember the year exactly, but this was fresh.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
So I mean, this is, did he even know or anything on why he did that?
What was the purpose of that?
I don't think he really needed to leave a note.
They were going through a very acrimonious divorce themselves.
There was a lot of information coming to light publicly about his wrongdoing in other areas.
So he decided to top it off, like add the chair and top and just, yeah, just orphan their
children.
But it doesn't make sense.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's kind of the situation that, you know, we're working with here where it's
like, okay, yeah, sure, you know, have problems with your current or ex partner, but, uh,
but no, it's a good thing there weren't any children involved because like, especially
from your children, they're forever scarred.
Oh, let's be honest.
That's, yeah, they're reliving that nightmare.
So luckily for this situation, they didn't have kids, but like, holy, yeah, he's never
understood that.
It's pretty crazy.
Anyway, an employee at the business they contacted, because now we're circling back.
The friends were alarmed.
They, you know, made a call to a neighboring business.
Um, an employee at the business they contacted who happened to be an off-duty firefighter.
Took their concerns pretty seriously and followed the call up by going to the Gladstone Police
Department and even making contact with Lynn.
Now I can understand why, you know, firefighters and police, I feel like, I'm sure it's different
everywhere, but I feel like in all of the movies and stuff, they're like, you know, they
butt heads and they're like kind of at odds with each other.
Seems like this guy was like, nope, that's the move.
Um, he's like, yeah, he's like, I hate the police.
So I'm like, they're with you.
I'm going to go check.
Yeah.
No, he even made contact with Lynn.
So he goes to the police department and specifically speaks to Lynn.
So I don't take issue with the escalation or the sense of urgency at all.
Obviously freak out more people.
Right.
But what I do take issue with, and admittedly, I don't know, um, that person's specific
circumstance, but does anyone else think it's a problem that a firefighter apparently needs
to moonlight just to go totally off topic?
Why does a firefighter need a second job?
Their first job is already so physically demanding.
Yeah, but there's a lot of that I service.
They are volunteers.
And that's why it's part time.
Yeah, this was an volunteer one.
And he's like, oh, well, that's, yeah, that's not how the heck does that work because they
make you work for like 48, 72 hours or whatever.
Yeah, no, they have kind of crazy schedules.
I mean, I don't know, good on them for caring and following through, you know, to check on
Debbie.
However, I just feel like he worked part time at the hair salon too.
Like not at this salon.
He was at the neighboring business.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
He had a pretty intense job.
So like maybe when they're not fighting fires, we should be paying them enough that they
can afford to.
No, no, absolutely.
Because how would you, how would that even work?
I don't know.
I just feel like, you know, probably this person should build work just that one super high
stress, very high pressure job, you know, have some downtime occasionally and still continue
to live indoors.
Yeah.
And it's extremely, it's not only physically, but it's a mentally demanding job because
it's because they usually are the first to show up on a scene.
So it doesn't matter if it's a hostage situation, it doesn't matter if it's somebody who's
calling because, oh, and you know, part attack or heart attack or I've heard those, I've
heard those before.
Yeah.
But it's like, they're the first on the scene and they are the ones that usually have to
divulge and like jump into whatever's happening for so I can't imagine trying to when you get
off, you know, when you get off, yes.
And then going to a second job.
Yep.
I can't imagine that.
Pretty wild.
Yeah.
I just for, for whatever reason, probably just because I'm so, my awareness is very heightened
about our current capitalistic hell-scape.
I just, I just really glommed on to that because I was like, why is this why?
A firefighter working like some, you know, part-time retail job.
I don't know who knows.
Maybe he's just a guy who's like, is working super hard because he wants to pay like down
student debt or wants to buy house or whatever.
You know, maybe it, I don't know his situation.
I just was like, and now I'm angry about that, you know.
It was just before 9 p.m. when Lynn and the off duty firefighter visited the Gladstone
Beauty salon to check on Debbie.
Seriously, though, this firefighter is a real one.
Apparently, they do not punch out from being a public servant literally ever because he's
working a second job and then wraps that up and is like, oh, here, let me just go be a good
smaritan on my free time.
You know, all 15 minutes of it before my next show.
Right.
What?
So, Lynn had a key to their wife's salon.
When, yeah, apparently.
I know.
I thought that was interesting as well.
When they entered, the pair quickly found poor Debbie dead in the back storage room.
According to court documents, as soon as Benton went back to the office and turned on the
light, Sergeant Benton let out a blood-curdling scream.
From there, man.
Oh, my God.
Yeah.
From their law enforcement and Lynn's attorney differ on what happened inside this salon.
Lynn's defense claims that as a trained paramedic, they were able to determine that Debbie
was gone.
Basically, she was beyond saving.
She was stiff and had no pulse.
Its law enforcement's assertion that Lynn made no attempt to revive Debbie, which as the
spouse, even with that sort of training to me, that seems sus is all hell.
No, it totally is sus because usually, even if they know, they still try to resist to
take--
They still try.
Yeah, they still try.
And then they'll be like, okay, dead on arrival, sort of thing.
Yeah.
The deal way.
But that, no, that is-- oh, yep, they looked dead.
Well, let's clear out.
Let's clear out.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
Obviously, I wasn't there.
I didn't witness the condition of the body.
I could see where, if there's obvious brain matter on the floor, a situation like that,
but I will say, there are cases where even in those situations, brain matter exposed--
Yes, they still try.
Yeah, but they still try.
I don't know.
I mean, obviously, they were not on the best terms, but you would think, hey, especially
as the spouse, maybe I'm really motivated to save this person, even though I may not be
super in love with them anymore, because, guess what?
You are going to be the first suspect.
Absolutely.
Even if you were in what outwardly appears to be a happy marriage.
So just something to think about.
I mean, training is one thing, but other than making a little bit of noise, you are not going
to exhibit any concern for this person, your partner.
I just-- I don't know.
I wasn't there, so I really can't say it, but the latter isn't.
It's not a good look.
No, not at all.
Yeah, not at all.
Especially if the sergeant, or whoever it was, it had found.
Because Lynn was there, too.
Yes.
Lynn is the one that made the discovery.
Okay.
Yeah.
I mean, it's two people, essentially.
It's a firefighter who also happens to be Debbie's partner, a strange partner at this point,
and then a firefighter.
So yeah, I could see where maybe you don't go into complete hysterics.
Maybe the scream as he's discovering the body is sort of just a reaction, just a reaction
or anything.
And I'm going to say they, because I don't know at the point of the discovery of Debbie's
body, I don't know specifically that I could pinpoint what the pronouns were at that
point.
It is, there's a lot of that where it's a little bit tough to precisely determine, you
know, a timeline for that.
So and, you know, just out of respect in that regard.
But Lynn reportedly immediately called for police assistance, because you know what a cop
needs when there's a dead body is more cops.
Absolutely.
Because I think they, I mean, arguably like, yeah, you need more people there.
But I just am like, instead of calling an ambulance, they just call more police.
That's my understanding.
I don't know if they, I mean, typically when the cops are calling for assistance, like they
are calling directly to a dispatcher.
And so they're going to basically relay the situation.
I don't know that in this case, I mean, if you really want to get down to like splitting
hairs down to brass tacks, I don't know that they specifically said, like, I need backup
or that they said, like, we've got a body, you know, that sort of thing.
So I think sometimes that's more down to like the dispatcher is interpreting what the
situation requires.
But I just, I hate you Lynn.
So isn't this all like usually, aren't there police reports?
And isn't it, wouldn't it be in a police report saying like, generally what it, yeah, I mean,
you do have sort of a general sense of, but I don't know that you can adequately get
direct quotes about like, okay, this is specifically what I told the dispatcher.
You can oftentimes if they are released for public record, the 911 call itself.
Right.
And that's why I was like, usually when things go to trial, things are public.
And that's the reason why I was like, this wasn't even.
But I mean, I feel like it is and it isn't.
Is that makes sense?
And we will have a little bit more.
Oh, okay.
As you may imagine, under the circumstances, help was quickly on the way.
Another police sergeant arrived in just two minutes, which is a hell of a response time.
It's not bad.
At that point, the defense takes, it's also what 2011?
No, 2011.
It's, please response was different.
And then after COVID, it changed.
So yeah, yeah, during and after COVID, there's been some differences.
So are we really shocked before COVID that they responded?
No.
Yeah.
At that point, the defense states that Sergeant Lynn was visibly upset and crying, crying
and sobbing.
And honestly, who wouldn't be after discovering their spouse estranged or not in this manner?
But it just feels a little bit like it was a bit of a light switch situation.
Like, oh, really?
Yeah, like you're putting on the airs.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
What did deflect like any sort of suspicion?
Oh, yeah.
Authorities said it wasn't until her autopsy that it was determined she had been shot in the
back and had also been strangled, ruling her death as a homicide.
Because anybody's shooting and strangling themselves.
Well, not to my knowledge.
I love today.
She's rolling through her rolodex.
Yeah, but many times have I heard of a murder where they strangled themselves and then
yeah, I don't know.
I don't like so far none.
Yeah, so far none.
So I mean, at this point, basically, everyone is just asking, how could someone be driven
to commit such a brutal crime against her?
Seems like she again, you know, really?
Well, especially for Gladstone because it's a super small town.
So totally understandable.
Yeah.
I think, although I would say like you're just outside of Portland, this is also 2011.
Maybe let's can the, you know, it feels a little insincere just to be like so shocked.
Like, oh, this doesn't happen here.
It's like, well, crime happens everywhere.
Oh, not in a glass stone.
It's a bubble.
It's perfect.
Okay.
The who's from who built it in Gladstone during the rest of the season.
Oh my God.
Come on.
It's like, I mean, it is.
It's a very, it's a very like homey feeling town or I mean, to some degree, so I feel like
there's a lot of areas of Gladstone there.
But you're actually correct because yeah, crime happens all the time.
I know that's really shocking, but I'm not just talking in general.
I mean, like, in Gladstone, like, three days ago, I'd do just murder his mom.
So yeah, it's not, I get it.
Yes.
It's not.
It just feels a little disingenuous.
But they all had surprised me.
Did you face somebody who died a little bit?
Yeah, it's like, oh, people get murdered.
Like, I've never heard of murder.
Yeah.
Okay.
It's a new concept.
It is a new concept.
That's why I'm, I have surprised me.
Good to face.
Yeah.
I feel like Gladstone of all places claiming to be, you know, in shock and awe is a little, it's
a little rich for me, but that's fine.
Well, it's because you're not from Gladstone.
You're not a Gladstoneian.
Okay.
Oh, my God.
I'm true Gladstoneian of what makes me surprised.
It would be shocking.
Initially, the deputy medical examiner had determined Debbie's death was caused by a heart
attack.
Of course, that was prior to any autopsy being performed at the Oregon State Medical Examiner's
office in Clackamas the following day.
Debbie's cause of death was determined not only to be homicide, but furthermore, the result
of, and this is a quote from the reporting, a gunshot wound of the back neck compression
strangulation and blunt force chest and abdominal trauma.
That's a lot of violence inflicted on the body.
I will say that.
True crime officionados will not be surprised at all to learn that a certain sergeant in
the Gladstone Police Department was of interest to the authorities as they continued to investigate.
What's that thing?
We hear and we say it all the time.
Oh, right.
The husband did it.
I have a look on the edge of my seat.
What do we say?
Yes.
It's usually the spouse generally speaking.
Yes.
Usually these days it feels like for an average woman, the only thing on par in terms of just
risk of bodily harm with walking down a dark alley is the dangerous endeavor of becoming
pregnant or pissing off a romantic partner.
Same.
That's the other thing to keep in mind is anytime there's some sort of strangulation.
It's very personal.
Yes, it's personal.
That's how you know it has me.
It doesn't help it quickly.
It's just they had time to think about it.
Exactly.
That's why I'm like, because being that close to somebody and there is rage behind there.
It is personal.
That's why it's like, I'm like, I got strangled and shocked.
I don't know how much you recall from when you have read about this case in the past,
but I think you will be a little bit surprised about the specifics because we are going to
get into a little bit about the conspiracy and who all was involved in what.
So I'm not going to get into the weeds on the statistics here, but I'm pretty sure I
don't have to.
For every single one of us that's in a happy, healthy relationship, we can point to at least
one Lacey Peterson, which I mean, I feel bad saying that because it's not anything that
she had ever done wrong.
Unfortunately, the only mistake that she made was picking a man that valued his freedom
more than her life and was a piece of shit and a lying sack of shit.
While as long as people live on the surf, they're going to have murderers.
I mean, are we really shocked?
Just selfish evil people.
I know.
And I think the part that gets me is you married this person.
You got an abandoned knee and asked to marry them or ask them to marry you.
You decided, "I'm done with you."
"Kapow."
And that's just what mind-blowing is.
You almost have to be psychopathic or sociopath or something to be able to kill the person
that you married.
It's pretty wild.
And I feel like probably the thing that people will maybe focus in on is that I'm saying it's
so dangerous for a woman, basically, to become pregnant or have a romantic partner.
In one sense, that feels like a hot take.
But not really when you consider how many pregnant women are murdered.
How many women are murdered by their partners?
So I don't know whether I'm right or wrong.
Feel free to light up the comments, guys.
We could use the engagement.
And it's your attention that we crave in this capitalistic hell-scape.
Some interesting information came to light about Lynn Benton as they began to investigate.
Because remember, now Lynn is all of a sudden a very interesting person to the police.
They were actually fired by the police department after 24 years of service as a police officer,
which feels another hot take here.
Honestly, it feels damn near impossible to accomplish.
It really feels difficult for a cop to get fired.
Oh, no, absolutely.
Absolutely, absolutely.
Usually, they're, they get a slap on the wrist and I'm just going to keep it up.
Wow, you know, and I wouldn't slap too hard.
You don't want to hurt his wrist.
Right, right, right.
That's why I say it's usually like, don't do that again.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Yeah, no, I totally got it.
Yeah.
So this is kind of a really interesting.
I don't know that it is all that relevant specifically to the murder, but obviously we're
going to talk about it because it's very interesting background for Lynn.
Two reasons were cited for Lynn's termination by the chief of police when a when an official
statement was issued.
Number one.
The individual had married a Brazilian man in 1993 so that their companion or acquaintance
could obtain US citizenship.
Oh, don't they usually investigate that to make sure that it's like legit?
They sure do.
Yeah.
That's why you get in a lot of trouble when you when you do, when you do that.
Mm-hmm.
Number two.
The entity issued laptop, this employee possessed contained evidence that they had both viewed and
possessed pornographic material, which it's not illegal to possess porn.
And I'd like to think that most of our listeners know that we try to view things through a critical
and is even handed a lens as possible.
Okay, porn's not illegal, but like, was it that work?
That's just dumb.
It's a work computer.
Oh, that's just dumb.
Okay, yes.
Okay.
Yeah.
But it's like those people want to get caught.
Like they want to.
Right.
I'm sorry.
It's like, you know better.
There's going to be some sort of monitoring.
I mean, this is like sometime between 1993 and 2010.
So maybe they didn't realize.
I don't know.
I don't work for the government or in nearly as important a role as Linda, but you know what?
I don't do.
I think I'll porn on my work laptop, not once, never done it.
Well, you need to do it.
You just need to do it one time.
Just one time.
And then you'll know you'll understand.
You'll understand.
And frankly, I'd like to collect my metal now if we're just giving them away.
You know, for not watching the porn.
While it work.
Let's add that while it works.
Yeah, I think they were probably off the clock, but you're using a like, you know,
but you're so using a work.
Exactly.
You're saying, you're asking for a good point.
Not good.
As a millennial, I don't want to catch flag for getting a participation trophy, but I
feel like a non-participation trophy should be fine because I didn't participate in the
watching the work.
Do I get one too?
Yeah.
Let's award ourselves trophies for not watching porn.
I will.
It'll be big enough for our work devices.
That's my fireplace.
There you go.
Huge.
Yeah.
Huge.
I know.
And the doughnut too.
So you might recall that I mentioned accomplices at the top.
Yes.
Well, how else do you seamlessly orchestrate the cold blooded murder of your spouse whilst
maintaining an alibi?
Many have tried and failed.
But I'm sure this crack team has it in the bag.
Spoiler alert, they super did not have this.
They really did not nail it.
They did not stick the landing.
Susan Ellen Campbell was arrested within days of Debbie Benton's murder, though this individual
had no criminal history.
But there was also the troubling fact that authorities could find no evidence of a robbery.
So I think that they were speculating that the salon had been broken into and that it
was like motive was robbery.
And I'm like, that doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
You know, kind of makes you wonder who was the person who threw that out.
Yeah.
It does.
Like, it's so funny.
That's exactly what I was.
It looks like a robbery.
All the big caches that are usually being killed missing.
He just goes like real old timey.
Campbell, Lynn Benton's friend, became a person of interest after a neighbor called
police with concerns.
The authorities then coordinated with a neighbor to record a call where Campbell and the neighbor
discussed plans to cover up the crime.
And Lynn also admitted to wanting their wife dead.
So just recorded them basically plotting out the whole murder.
So what is it like one of the nosey neighbors that's like, hey, girl, hey, just like checking
with you.
Want to know what's going on?
What's up?
Oh, yeah.
I know you with that.
I know somebody who knows somebody.
Campbell's son also claimed to have overheard Benton offer $2,000 to commit the crime.
Which is not a lot of money for this type of you going to like federal, well, maybe not
federal.
Okay.
But you're going away for a long time.
But that's only if you're caught, right?
They didn't expect to be caught.
So $2,000 is a lot of money when.
Yeah.
When you think you're for sure getting away with it.
The payment was never processed largely because it was reportedly supposed to come from
a safe deposit box that Debbie blocked Lynn from accessing.
So before she was murdered, she was able to stop Lynn from accessing their safety deposit
box, which had money or something of value that they were going to use to pay for the hit
on her, which is just lovely.
Usually people say more money, more problems.
But I guess since this whole plot fell apart pretty quickly, it probably doesn't really matter.
How many commas were involved?
Okay.
Yeah.
I see what I did there.
I was like, I don't think it matters how many commas were involved because it's like, I get
it zero, zero, zero commas, zero, zero commas, zero, zero.
Yeah.
It's a thinker.
It is.
But I picked up what you were throwing down.
It's doing it.
I picked it up.
I picked up what you were throwing down.
I got at a bill hearing that December, it came to light that Campbell had confessed, though
not outright.
They stating that they had participated in the crime.
They were like, I was a participant in the crime.
I was just the driver.
Okay.
I was just making sure the car was warm.
The story was that Campbell had been paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to collect Debbie.
Oh, allegedly.
Not so much.
Not so allegedly at this point.
Wait, but I thought you said the money was in the safety deposit.
I know.
So I think the plan was to pay them 2000.
They got the IOU, right?
Just worth more.
Exactly.
Yeah.
I assume they're tacking on interest.
I don't know.
Right.
So they were going to be paid a sum of $2,000 by Lynn Benton to kill Debbie in the Gladstone
Beauty Salon that May.
Debbie had been shot in the back of the head with a 25 caliber semi-automatic handgun,
though that wasn't enough to ring the life from that poor woman.
She'd been beaten with numerous broken ribs, a lacerated liver, as well as one of the
telltale signs of strangulation, a fractured thorax.
The Clackamas County was quoted as saying of the crime, "It was kill, kill, and overkill."
I hope to never utter the phrase lacerated liver or the like again, but then if that was
a serious life goal, I probably should have chosen something.
Other than true crime to podcast about.
You know when you start saying things out loud or I don't know how many book reports you're
writing of late, but as I'm writing my notes sometimes, I'm like, "Man, this is a little
bit of a bummer."
And I'm like, "Yeah, this is actually a hundred percent, your fault."
You could have started a podcast about anything, technically.
That is true.
They are.
When questioned about the murder, Lynn was asked for all cell phones in their possession.
They claim to only have a work phone, handing it over willingly, almost suspiciously so.
Like they gave it up too easily.
Lynn.
Now, don't you think though like being that they're part of the police academy they didn't want,
even though it is suspicious, don't get more access, but they didn't want to cast suspicion
so they're like, "Here you go."
Wait, wait, wait.
I just had to lay a few things here.
I think we'll get to the end of the paragraph and I think you'll realize.
Yeah.
So they claim to have only a work phone and they're like, "Here, yeah."
And they're, "Mm, I don't know.
That was almost too easy."
And just then the detective heard a noise coming from their jacket pocket at which point
Lynn buried their head in their hands, cursing.
Okay, so word of advice.
If you're going to try to conceal a secondary phone, like a burner or just a separate personal
phone, you might want to make sure that it's at least on silence in the presence of police
or don't because we all live for terrible people getting caught in the wake of their own
credit.
Yeah, yeah.
They stupid.
Yeah.
The record's pertaining to calls and text messages on the day of the murder had been erased.
But nothing has ever really, truly erased for good, right?
And as a police officer, they should know this.
Hello.
Yeah.
Hello.
They should know this.
Such remarkable little devices these are.
Imagine that.
Hello.
Tippy's canoes.
I don't know, right?
Oh my god.
Do you like that?
I actually put that in my notebook.
You did?
I had to reread it six times and I realized it was part of the skit and I was like, what?
I know.
I was like, what?
Is that part of the murder?
Is that how she answered her phone?
Was Tippy's canoes?
So people didn't know what was going on.
And then I realized it was a joke.
You're like, oh, she's just joshing.
That jokes.
That jokes for days.
Former Gladstone police sergeant Lynn Benton was a reigned via video from the Clackamas
County jail on murder charges before Judge Jeffrey S. Jones.
It's a lot of jays at the Clackamas County Courthouse in Oregon City on November 8, 2012.
Ultimately, Lynn was sentenced to life in prison without parole.
And that's the end, right?
Done, done, done.
I love feeling it's not.
She knows that she only got fed a portion of the story.
I only had a portion.
Yeah.
I didn't send you everything.
Yeah.
I'd love to tell you that that's where our story ends.
And in fact, when I first started researching the case, I believed that to be a wrap.
As I read through the legalese in the detailed timeline of the court records, suddenly
as 2023 and 2024 progressed, it seemed like the initial indictment might be amended, which
was scary and confusing.
There's a lot of language around protecting both medical and financial records.
And though it's not made plain, I'm sure this pertains to Lynn, but I suppose the records
very well could pertain to others involved in the case, maybe Debbie or perhaps even those
that testified.
When I made my way down to the end of April, 2024, in the timeline I read, the indictment
dated November 6, 2012 remains in force.
Still as I realized, there was a significant amount to scroll through.
It seemed like this might not be over, like at all.
Finally, on the spookiest of all days, October 31, all hallows eve, one of many interesting
court filings appears in the timeline of the case record, specifically a motion to order
disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera review, which I realized
may not sound that spicy.
But here we go.
A motion to order disclosure of grand jury testimony in the alternative motion for in-camera
review means that a party is requesting that the court either order the disclosure of
grand jury testimony or permit an in-camera review of the testimony.
To obtain disclosure of grand jury transcripts, a party must show that the need for disclosure
outweighs the need for secrecy.
So all this is to say, this doesn't happen a lot.
The request must also be structured to cover only the material that is needed.
So it's not like, "Oh, okay, cool.
Yeah, you can just have all the access to the records."
It's, "Who are they giving the records to?"
Lynn?
That's a very good question.
There were also several motions to exclude evidence.
Then just the last few days, it looks like there has been some real movement in the case.
Because of course, usually after you're convicted of murder, there is a years-long appeal process.
Unless you just decide to go to prison and stay there.
Responses were received regarding the motions to exclude, as well as an entry indicating
that memorandum at law was granted.
And a memorandum of law is granted in a legal context.
It means that the court has reviewed the legal arguments presented in the memorandum and
has decided to rule in favor of the party who submitted it.
Essentially, citing with their interpretation of the law and applying it to the case facts
as presented.
So I can see on your face, what does this mean?
Yes.
That's why I'm like, "What?
Wait.
I need you to explain."
Well, not much yet, necessarily.
But the line items included for both forthcoming entries indicate that this is hardly the last
time this case will be discussed in a courtroom.
The simple explanation is that the court has overturned Lynn's conviction for Debbie's
murder, along with other related charges and sent them back to Clackamas County for
a new trial.
Return them why?
It's not entirely clear from reading some of what's available is very limited in the court
documents.
I've read a couple of articles.
People are not following this as closely because this case is pretty dated.
Yeah, it's kind of old.
But I'll ring you through what we have so far for future.
In fact, coming up right after Thanksgiving on December 2nd, this next week, the first round
motions in the second trial appear to be commencing.
Then just two days before Christmas, day two of the first round motions is scheduled
to continue if needed.
There are also already second round motion states scheduled coming up in March of 2025.
The day before my birthday, they've even already scheduled juror orientation.
And then just a few short days later, they apparently anticipate the start of a 12 person
jury trial to begin in early August 2025.
I hope I don't get a jury summons.
I know.
Actually, I do.
Guilty!
As soon as I show up, they'll be like, "You know these people?"
Yes, guilty!
You want dismissed.
Is that not mind blowing?
No, that is.
The fact that it's actually being done and carried out right now is what's mind blowing,
especially with all the evidence that was stacked up against this person.
Well, and I will say this, I do think what little that I've been able to glean from not
just the court documents, but the little bit of reporting that has come out about it where
there's some interpretation provided by other journalists.
It seems like this may not really be a situation where it's like, "Oh, you guys didn't have enough
evidence, but I do think there...it's more of a procedural issue."
So certain types of evidence, if it's permitted and it shouldn't happen, then that gets struck.
That can be grounds for a retrial.
So I think some of this may have more to do with the technical and administrative side than...
Which is so scary.
Well, I think, no, it absolutely is scary.
And I think the problem lies with the fact that it just goes to show that our court system
is screwed.
It's screwed up because the discrepancy between everything that had happened leading up
to that point and now they're like, "Oh, well, we're just going to give you a retrial."
And it's just like, "What?
You have a recorded conversation with them admitting that they planned it."
But, "Oh, no, it's probably too big."
I mean, well, I was just going to say, I don't know what pieces of evidence are being excluded
from the previous trial at this point.
So I've just...I've never really stumbled into a case that suddenly developing again,
quite like this before, usually I go into it knowing because that's how it comes to my attention.
The fact that it's being reopened is how it's sort of like back in the ether, if you will.
Who approved that?
Doesn't that have to be approved by a judge or something?
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, judges were involved.
I know.
She's just like, "I want answers."
No, I do because this doesn't mean...
Because you know if you were me, if this was you or me, not saying we would murder anybody.
But if this was you or me, they would be like, "Oh, they went to hell.
That's it.
They're going to die."
They went to hell.
Yeah, like ours.
It would be like sealed, signed, delivered, that's it.
There would be no retrial.
And even if we did ask for one, they'd be like, "Eh."
You know what I mean?
So that's why I just...
It blows my mind.
I don't know.
To me, it seems like...
I'm sorry, I'm so passionate about this.
I just don't feel like...
I feel like a lot of times the people who are supposed to be held accountable, a lot of
times don't get held accountable for the stuff that that gets done.
And yes, they went to prison, but now it's being reopened.
That means that they could literally just be like, "Oh, you never committed this murder."
Yeah, I mean, it's very possible.
Obviously, we're not going to know the outcome from this for quite a while.
And some of the details of what's changed are not exactly...
It's a lot of legalese, and I'm not an attorney or a prosecutor.
I do think that they've made it clear that there were some procedural issues.
They're...
We're definitely items included in the court proceedings that shouldn't have been.
Part of me wants to really dig into that.
I've shared a little bit...
The bombshell is that this is being reopened.
I do...
If we are able to learn a little bit more as it develops, I feel like that's when I would
kind of want to share a little bit more about the case and how now it's proceeding.
Yeah.
I mean, some of that...
There's a lot of things that we're just not going to know until the court proceedings take
place oftentimes.
Yeah.
Because the way that a lot of the court records work when you're looking at the case numbers
in Smart Search is you're just seeing kind of line items and dates.
It's not giving you very detailed information.
There aren't typically transcripts attached per se.
There's no interpretation.
This is literally just on this date, we will be providing jurors orientation.
And that's it.
I don't know.
This is just really wild to me, though, because we've talked about cases that were developing
as...
No, that's not what I want to say.
Well, see, my whole thing is like, it's surprising, but then at the same time, it's not.
If you think about it, because police officers are human.
Allegedly?
Allegedly.
But the whole thing is...
Since we weren't there, we don't know how they processed, especially being that Lynn was
on the police force.
I wouldn't be surprised if things were mishandled.
So we've talked about this before on the show, though we're not network backed journalists.
We're just people working to create, hopefully the highest quality podcast and in general content
that we can in between everything else in our lives.
So I don't know.
I was just really happy to be able to present something that feels like kind of more like
breaking news.
I didn't anticipate that going in.
I had no idea about the retrial.
I had no idea.
I almost didn't include it because it's kind of buried in a lot of the source material.
It just is like, everything's about the initial case.
Absolutely, because even when I sent you information about it, I mean, they had little snippets,
but I was like, nothing to do with the retrial, though.
No.
Yeah.
And I bet you a lot of people don't know that.
I bet you a lot of people don't know that.
They probably kept it on the hush.
I do.
Yeah.
I mean, I think after a certain point, it's just, you know, there's more current stories.
And so that's going to be what gets the air time.
But there's actually more stuff that I didn't put into my regular notes.
But I'm going to save that for a little Patreon mini-sode.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
A couple more pages, I think, for them.
But, you know, just a little mini-sode action.
But for now, you want to get into some tarot.
Oh, I think I was going to say get into some tea.
And I was like, I guess I'd throw in tea.
I was like, tea, what kind of tea we talking about.
Oh, how beautiful.
Beautiful.
We already did our pre-shuff.
Okay.
Everyone?
Okay.
I'm going to draw.
Very professional in my shuffling skills.
Yeah.
It was expert.
All comical to try to watch you shuffle with those nails.
They're short.
What are you talking about?
Well, I'm comparison to some.
They're short.
That's no.
You're a crazy person.
Okay.
Do you know what one it is?
Yeah.
So Three of Wands.
Oh.
Okay.
That's what we got?
Yeah.
We got a bird.
She's pretty musical today.
Yeah.
I'm actually all the time.
You don't know.
You are actually on the whole, you're fairly musical.
Yes.
I should have been a Disney character.
It's never too late.
Our key words are creativity and skill, self-expression, growth, competence, and manifestation.
So what that stands for?
Yeah.
Okay.
Now is the time to show the world what you can do.
You've worked hard to develop your talents and have confidence in your abilities.
You feel passionately about what you do and believe you can inspire others.
Express yourself.
I'm not really.
I'm not sure that I'm finding the connection yet with the case.
Lynn express themselves.
Yeah.
Sure, dead.
Some of the expression I feel like--
There was an expression.
A long lasting impression of that expression.
Yeah.
I-- you know, the one thing I will say is it is kind of a trio that's associated with
the conspiracy.
So three of ones in that respect, at least, kind of makes sense to me.
But I'm going to read the rest of the interpretation.
You've developed a project, business, creative endeavor, or other venture, and now you're ready
to share it with others.
Like maybe you're co-conspirators.
I'm all about the conspiracies.
Yeah.
I mean, this one I'm not a fan of, I have to say.
By devoting yourself fully to your goal, you can succeed.
Do what's necessary to bring your dreams to fruition.
In a reading about money, the upright three shows increase and financial support coming
to you.
You may have to spend money to make money, but this card promises success.
Oh, man.
I feel like just the specific wording on that, because remember, they didn't actually spend
the money because they got blocked out of the safety deposit box.
That's true.
That you got to spend money to make money.
Like I'm sure that there was probably an element of like, oh, I'm going to collect on
the life insurance.
Oh, that makes me so nervous.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In a reading about work, this card suggests an exciting time when your efforts start to
bear fruit.
You're giving it your all, inspiring others and attracting people who are eager to help
you.
Your ideas begin to take form.
Collaboration can be beneficial.
Okay.
If you asked about a relationship, the three indicates a commitment, an engagement or
marriage.
Yeah, that irony.
Yeah.
You and a partner express passionate feelings for each other and celebrate your love, or maybe
you super don't.
Could be like hard left in completely the other direction.
You know, a lot of times, especially when DV is the thing, when you split, there is that
I don't want you to be with anybody else.
Right.
If I can't have you, then no one can.
Yeah.
So this kind of actually does work if you make...
Yeah, that does.
Yeah, that's what it's just saying.
And it's what it's saying.
It kind of makes sense.
Yeah.
Ooh, I don't like that.
Okay.
Well, there's an extra excerpt.
And I don't think we're going to like this either.
So.
Yay.
Don't assume.
I like everything.
Okay.
I'll be surprised if you like this, but I guess we'll see.
Hidden Alliance's work to move you into your authentic vocation as soon as you begin to
commit to it.
Okay.
Hidden Alliance of maybe three people who hidden gem.
There.
Decided to...
The leg.
You know, for murder.
And then maybe your authentic vocation is perhaps not law enforcement, but being detained
by people.
I was like, I was like jail time.
Yeah.
I just say it for a certain time.
Maybe it's not that, but it's...
That is so weird, though.
Like the way that that is specifically worded and the extra excerpt, it's like, it's fitting.
Yeah.
I don't like it, but it is fitting.
I like it.
I think it's...
No, I mean, I hate that that's the situation.
No, yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, I think we should wrap it up.
Wrap it before you tap it.
Okay.
Well, the peanut gallery has spoken.
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Who do the nudes come into effect?
That's only fans.
I don't think they answer it.
No free feet.
We talked about this.
Have a creepy ass day.
See you next Tuesday.
I mean, probably not Andrea because she's a guest.
Oh, that's true.
You want to say that she's already used to hosting.
Yeah, this is already my permanent.
I just moved in.
I moved in today because I decided that she's got the collapsible cot under the desk.
You get it.
I was sleeping between you and Chris.
What are you talking about?
She's not taking my job.
Oh my god.
I didn't know you were there.
Girl, you get you lucky.
I was like, whoops.
I didn't know Kung Fu.
Okay, so have a creepy ass day.
See you next Tuesday.
Yeah.
Okay.
So do we do three, two, one?
Yeah, we can.
You counted off and I'll just start when you start.
Pressure.
I don't know if I can do it.
No, that's fine.
So three, two, I did say.
I did say.
Wait, I forgot already.
What was to say?
I forgot already.
What was to say?