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Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast where we explore innovative leadership ideas and

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transformative insights.

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I'm thrilled to introduce Jason Anthoyne here today to talk about employee relationships

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within organizations inspired by its father, a formal assembly line foreman at a school

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bus factory, Jason specializes in effective communication with blue collar workers.

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He has guided numerous companies in transforming their internal communication strategies to

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boost workplace culture and enhance business outcomes.

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Welcome Jason.

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Thank you so much Melissa.

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I appreciate it.

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I'm really excited to be here today.

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We're so excited to have you and as I normally do, we're just going to jump right in and

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talk about friction and company communication.

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I know that the big buzz word these days is maintaining frictionless communication amongst

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different levels within organizations.

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So from your perspective, let's discuss a little bit about communication challenges

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that companies are having right now.

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Well, you know, I love it when people say right now because we're having the same communication

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challenges now that we always have had and we always will have just because, you know,

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at least right now, there are humans working in all these organizations and humans are funny.

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So some of those challenges typically include leaders who don't think they have the time

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or the skills or maybe a strong enough relationship with their employees to feel comfortable

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to communicate with them and then on the employee side, I'm hard to reach.

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I'm used to things like tick-tock and Instagram when I'm not at work and my communications

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from the company aren't like that, then they're boring and I don't want to read them or watch

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them.

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And so, you know, there's just a ton of things that sort of cause that friction and there

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are a lot of ways to reduce that, overcome that, some digital, some not digital.

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But to me, the biggest thing is that you both need to want to.

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I want to be communicated too.

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I want to get feedback.

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I want to know more about what's going on in the company and what I can do to help.

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And the company also has to feel the same way.

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It is important for us to communicate and build relationships with all of our employees,

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not just the ones that are easy to get to just by pushing the email button.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think it's like you mentioned it, some mutually, a mutual want.

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I know a lot of times I have a high energy, fast pace dialogue when communicating and a

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lot of times I've had to re-change how I speak to people because they were, I was moving so

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fast for them that it was hard to understand what I was saying.

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So just kind of what you were mentioning a bit.

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Can you share some tips and tricks for people on what is the best way of communicating?

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I know a lot of times.

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We think we're communicating like you said at the beginning, you're right, it's been a long

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time.

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We think we're explaining things clearly and then things come out the wrong way.

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And as in your experience in the factory, it's important to understand what we need to do

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because everything builds on top of each other to get to the final product.

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So I guess the question is any tips you can share with our listeners?

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think the biggest tip is particularly for what we call distributed employees, those

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who are non-wired, which typically end up being sort of blue collar types of employees,

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front line employees.

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The biggest thing is to ask them how they want to be communicated with.

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Most times organizations just kind of skip over that and say, we've got an internet, we've

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got email, we've got digital signage.

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And then your front line supervisor might do some team huddles before or after shift.

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All of which or none of which might be what your employees want or not.

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So just ask them what they want because what's important is some people, like you were just

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saying, well, there's some people learn by listening, some people learn visually, some people

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like a mix of those things.

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And so the more you can think about who your audience is and what their preferences are, the

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easier it is to tailor your communications for them.

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There's a whole lot of other conversations we can have about what the messages need to

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be, but the actual delivery of that really should take into account what your employees want

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and how they want to receive information and how you want to receive information and

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communication back from them.

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So once we establish those things, then we can start building, you know, who's going to

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do it when they're going to do it?

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What are they going to say when they do it?

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But we have to start with a foundation of what is that literal connection of the communication

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between one and the other before we can have any of that other stuff even be remotely

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successful.

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In your career, have you, do you have any examples that you can share about maybe some challenges

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you had with communication in your career?

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Oh gosh, yes.

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You know, just because I'm on here talking about how to do communications really well doesn't

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mean that I do really well all the time.

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You know, even when I've been on the corporate side and working, you know, has had a communications

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for different organizations, we would get it wrong all the time too.

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There are some really good examples.

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All right, one is I worked for a company.

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We had 60,000 employees, 30,000 of those we could reach on email, 30,000 we could not reach

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on email.

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And when I first got there, nobody knew that.

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So whenever we were sending an email out from the CEO about, you know, what's going on with

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the quarter or how the business is doing, we would just, you know, the team would just hit

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the email button thinking it's going to 60,000 people.

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It's only going to 30,000 people.

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And so, you know, we're missing half of the organization in, oh, by the way, that half is

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the one that builds all of our stuff.

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And so they're not getting any of the information.

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So that was a, you know, a big miss when we went, you know, when I first arrived at that

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organization and so we, you know, we quickly fixed that sometimes that means giving everybody

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access, you know, to email, which sometimes can be a little bit of a, you know, budget crunch

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because of licenses and things like that.

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But other times it's, all right, we can reach the managers and supervisors.

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How can they then take that information and share that in a different way with those

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employees who aren't reached by email?

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So, you know, that's one big example.

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There's tons more like a lot of organizations have digital signage.

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We push out content on digital signage that has QR codes on it.

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So people don't have time to stand there and read the whole thing.

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So they just see it, click it and it goes somewhere.

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Sometimes people forget to put the links in there for where the QR code is supposed to go.

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So you think you're communicating and people are actually, no, there's code in the code

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and it's not going anywhere.

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So there's just, there's a lot of little hiccups like that that happen that sometimes get

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kind of missed in the rush to make sure the bigger things are working and we're trying to

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reach everybody as often as we can, but it's easy to kind of overlick some little details

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like that, which can derail the whole thing.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think of, you know, communication like you said is not just verbal communication.

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It's like through email, it's our body language.

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It's how we interact with people and then, you know, I think there's another layer of it

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when we look at different cultures and how they communicate.

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100 people.

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And they work.

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So kind of pulling back the layer a little bit and looking at culturally is there from

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your perspective, have you seen different communication struggles through different cultures?

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Absolutely.

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You know, that's a really important point about culture, not just the culture of the organization

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itself and all the different little sub-fultures that they all have, but also culturally as

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in where people live on the planet.

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So what might be appropriate, you know, for the U.S. might not be appropriate for APAC,

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for example.

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And a great example of that is most of the employees for our clients who live in APAC use

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what's app to communicate between themselves.

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It is rarely an official company channel, but that's how they want to communicate.

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And so there's a bunch of communication going on amongst those employees that A, the

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company is not aware of, B is kind of off and not, you know, not tucked behind, safely

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behind the server and the firewall.

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It makes the high-speed people all nervous.

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But that's how they prefer to communicate.

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So we have to take that into account culturally from where the people live, but then also

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the culture of the organization.

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You may have the kind of culture where it is perfectly normal for the CEO and other senior

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executives to show up at your facility and walk around and talk and, you know, get to

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know people.

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Other places, if the CEO and a bunch of executives show up, it causes panic because they don't

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normally do that.

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And so something must be wrong.

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And then if you know they're coming a week before that, you know, people are fit shining

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the whole place of spotless, when the CEO gets there.

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So the culture, I think, really kind of helps determine what's going to work and what's

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not.

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You know, there are times in certain cultures where short, you know, TikTok style videos work

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really well because you have that kind of workforce.

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There are times when that won't work well.

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Maybe you have an older workforce or one that's not quite as digitally connected as you

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might think they are.

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People school posters and bulletin board postings and things like that work just as well.

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So you always have to take that culture into mind when you're thinking about how to reach

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them, what's going to work, you know, what feels like us.

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Not, oh, I read this somewhere or I was on a webinar and they said, do this, this is the best

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practice.

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Best practices are a bunch of hooy.

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The part about a best practice is the practice part.

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Anything can be a best practice as long as it's the right thing and you practice it.

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So just because industry says do it, that doesn't mean it's necessarily right for your culture.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think about the different industries I've worked in and I'm banking to this, engineering

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to, you know, gaming and in these industries, it's quick to the point.

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There's not an hour dialogue of communication on how things are going to be done.

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It's very short.

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Like you mentioned, TikTok videos about what we need to accomplish.

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Yeah.

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Like you mentioned A-pack and you're up in other areas.

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They want to sit down for an hour and have a beer and visit and talk about things and

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sort through things.

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And so it's a much slower communication process than I think a lot of times we are in the

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United States is quick, get things done, quick as possible.

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Do you understand?

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Good go.

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I think so.

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The problem with that is a lot of times what people are communicated.

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We think the receiving person understands what we're asking for.

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I find that that's not always the case.

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So a lot of times what I'll do is say, do you understand what you need to do?

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And I'll ask them to explain it.

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And then when you hear it back and you understand what they're saying, if it's right, then they

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can go.

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If it's not, you can kind of correct it a bit.

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It's not that's kind of how I try to bridge some of the cultural and just age gaps, race

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gaps, country gaps, all kinds of different communication.

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It's funny.

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It's said that about working in an engineering organization.

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I've worked in several large manufacturing companies, tons of engineers in there.

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And so we have a meeting with just the engineers.

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Senior executives talk about whatever they're going to talk about.

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And in the end they say, all right, who has any questions?

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Engineers hardly ever raise their hands because they're a little bit introverted, which is

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fine.

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Most people are to a certain degree and certainly, you know, in a big public space like that.

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And so the, oh, there's no question.

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So the assumption is, oh, they get it.

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They understand it.

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No.

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Now they're going to go back.

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They're going to sit and think about it.

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They're going to talk with their buddies up and down the hall and on Slack and teams and

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whatever.

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And then they're going to have their questions because they're engineers.

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That's the engineering process.

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So just because they didn't raise their hand, that mean they get it and also doesn't

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mean they don't have questions.

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So in that type of culture, it's fantastic to wait a few days and then follow up.

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All right.

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Golf had time to think about it and percolate on it and talk with your buddies.

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Now what questions do you have?

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So you're exactly right around really tailoring things to the culture.

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In a high-tech company, that would not fly.

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They were going to have questions immediately.

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They won't answer them easily.

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And then they're off to the next thing.

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Yeah, I think about, you know, back in my previous life and engineering, there was a

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leader who was communicating with the field workers to basically cut out and amounted, right?

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And they thought they were actually taking out the dirt in an area and moving it to another

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area, which in heavy equipment, it's not a cheap process to move a giant mountain from

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one side to the other side.

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And so they went along and did what they thought that leader wanted them to do, which ended

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up costing the company a lot of money because they didn't really understand what they were

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being told.

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English wasn't their first language.

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And the leader that was communicating it was an very impatient, I would say not very friendly

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personality.

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And so they just said, "Yep, got it.

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We're going."

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And so, you know, when I think about communication, there's the, we need to get the job done.

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And then there's the difficult conversations.

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In that example, if they didn't really understand, they should have said, "What I hear you

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saying is this and clarify before they go and do something."

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So when I think of, you know, difficult conversations, it can be anything like that example, or,

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you know, maybe an employee is not performing well and you have to have that discussion or

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people are showing it to work.

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Yeah.

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And so I guess the question for you is, you know, avoiding difficult conversations, it can

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be really detrimental to anybody's business and any feel.

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That's cool.

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And so I want to get from your perspective, the long term impacts of not having these tough,

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these tough conversations with employees.

242
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There's, that's a great question because there really is a long term impact.

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So in the example that you just provided where, you know, a mean leader said, "Go and do

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this," and people are like, "Yep, something's broken in the relationship there where those

245
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people probably didn't feel comfortable to raise their hand and ask a question."

246
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I think sometimes both the askers and the answerers confuse asking a question with being

247
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questioned.

248
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Like, I'm not necessarily questioning the decision or your authority, but I am asking

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a question about what it is exactly that you want us to do.

250
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So I think that that happens a lot.

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And so, you know, you're avoiding a difficult conversation there and sometimes you don't

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even know you're avoiding it because people have just learned to be that way because this

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is how that leader is and this is how we have to act.

254
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So I think you have to be cognizant of that.

255
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And then I think the other thing that happens is the longer you avoid those difficult

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conversations, the more friction begins to build and build on top of it, build on top of

257
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it, and then different kinds of friction is kind of show up.

258
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So that, you know, over time, things are getting worse.

259
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I watch a lot of YouTube videos about physics and things like that and things, once they're

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perfect, they will not stay that way.

261
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They will tend to become unperfect and even more unperfect over time.

262
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So if they're already not perfect, they're going to get worse.

263
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Everything hardly ever gets better on its own.

264
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So it applies in physics, it applies here as well.

265
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And so the longer you let that kind of stuff linger, the more difficult things become.

266
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So as a leader, I think it's important for you to initiate those conversations yourself.

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There might be a lot of reasons why your employees aren't comfortable doing that.

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But if you initiate the conversation and it's very conversational, not necessarily, hey,

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let's meet at 3 to 320 on Thursday and hammer out some things that I don't think you understand.

270
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That's the wrong approach, just, you know, drop by wherever it is they are and say, all

271
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right, here's what we talked about.

272
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Let me know what you think about that.

273
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:08,900
Is that going to work or not?

274
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I mean, you're the ones doing it.

275
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So does this work?

276
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Does it not work?

277
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And so sometimes it'll take the leader having to initiate that.

278
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Sometimes leaders are a little bit reluctant to do it because they're like, I told them

279
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what to do.

280
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I'm not going to explain it again, but you do.

281
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Humans are humans.

282
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And so, but the point is, along you avoid any sort of those kind of friction, feeling,

283
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conversations, the worst they're going to get.

284
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And so, you know, just tackle it.

285
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Head on, just head on.

286
00:18:36,780 --> 00:18:39,620
So if you're a leader, initiate that conversation.

287
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If you're an employee that has a question, ask your question because undoubtedly, if the

288
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other people standing around you have the same question.

289
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Yeah, well said.

290
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And I think the other thing for senior leaders, if you're

291
00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:57,300
people are silenced and they're not giving feedback and they're not communicating, that should

292
00:18:57,300 --> 00:18:59,620
be an immediate red flag.

293
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That maybe it either needs to be escalated or maybe pulling aside one-on-one and better

294
00:19:05,940 --> 00:19:11,860
understand why an employee that's been virulful for a long time has gone silent.

295
00:19:11,860 --> 00:19:15,620
And I think that's something we all, like you mentioned, beginning.

296
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Something we're all working on is better communication.

297
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And I think, you know, effectively communicating to your employees is key and making sure

298
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that they're, they feel safe to give you feedback and tell you things like, hey, I can't

299
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come in at eight because I got to drop my kid off now.

300
00:19:32,380 --> 00:19:34,460
Can I come in at eight, 15?

301
00:19:34,460 --> 00:19:39,220
So do they feel safe to tell you that or do they just show up at eight, 15, hoping and

302
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:41,500
praying that you're not going to say anything?

303
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:49,180
So I think creating, you know, an open dialogue and with your employees and the people that

304
00:19:49,180 --> 00:19:54,540
you interact with, your friends, your spouses, your children, creating a safe and comfortable

305
00:19:54,540 --> 00:20:01,460
space for them to come to you and talk, I think is really key in communication these days.

306
00:20:01,460 --> 00:20:02,460
Absolutely it is.

307
00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:06,540
And you know, so many companies talk about, you know, employee engagement surveys and things

308
00:20:06,540 --> 00:20:07,540
like that.

309
00:20:07,540 --> 00:20:13,780
Oh, our engagement score is 75% and that's really good, but they still have high turnover.

310
00:20:13,780 --> 00:20:15,540
It's because of stuff like that.

311
00:20:15,540 --> 00:20:20,100
You know, you send out the engagement survey and people go, yes, absolutely it's good.

312
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:24,820
I'm telling you it's good because I don't want you to ask me more questions.

313
00:20:24,820 --> 00:20:27,500
I'm just going to tell you what you want to hear.

314
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:31,180
And I may be engaged, not cause I love this place, it's because I've got three kids and

315
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:33,580
a mortgage and I don't want to lose this job.

316
00:20:33,580 --> 00:20:39,780
So engagement number can be so tricky to understand and to your point, I might feel engaged this

317
00:20:39,780 --> 00:20:45,260
hour just afternoon after somebody's made me mad, I might not feel engaged at all.

318
00:20:45,260 --> 00:20:52,160
So you know, that whole idea around that engagement score really does sort of hinge on not the

319
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:57,660
communication as much as what the communication creates, which is a stronger relationship

320
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between the leaders and the employees.

321
00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:04,620
You can help you do that without it.

322
00:21:04,620 --> 00:21:09,500
No, you're not going to have it, but with it you have the opportunity to have it plus,

323
00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:13,380
you know, a whole bunch of other things that go into creating that relationship.

324
00:21:13,380 --> 00:21:18,700
But you know, if you're not really focused on building those relationships, then you as a

325
00:21:18,700 --> 00:21:23,700
leader, employees in their careers and the company as a whole just aren't going to get

326
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:27,100
to where you need to get to be successful.

327
00:21:27,100 --> 00:21:28,100
Can't.

328
00:21:28,100 --> 00:21:32,420
Yeah, I think about the engagement survey.

329
00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:38,740
A lot of times I hear people say, oh my gosh, we have 98% of our employees are so happy.

330
00:21:38,740 --> 00:21:40,780
We have the most happiest employees.

331
00:21:40,780 --> 00:21:46,260
And like you mentioned, key people are leaving the company, but a lot of times I feel like

332
00:21:46,260 --> 00:21:53,460
the engagement survey people and employees know that they're being seen and what they put

333
00:21:53,460 --> 00:21:54,460
in those surveys.

334
00:21:54,460 --> 00:21:59,780
And if they say, you know, one, I don't like my boss, they're afraid for retaliation and

335
00:21:59,780 --> 00:22:00,780
other things.

336
00:22:00,780 --> 00:22:02,780
So they score up things.

337
00:22:02,780 --> 00:22:09,780
And so I find those surveys really interesting in companies that say they have really high

338
00:22:09,780 --> 00:22:14,100
retention, but they're skinny scores, but they don't have high retention.

339
00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:15,100
That's right.

340
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,300
And I think too, you know, there's nothing wrong with engagement surveys.

341
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,820
I don't want to pick on them, but you know, that's just one data point.

342
00:22:21,820 --> 00:22:26,220
So, you know, in what you just explained, let's get the survey back.

343
00:22:26,220 --> 00:22:27,220
Let's look.

344
00:22:27,220 --> 00:22:32,700
Now, let's go out and just talk with a select proof of employees and say, generally, everybody

345
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:35,100
write this question as a three.

346
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:36,300
How do you feel about that?

347
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:37,300
Why or why not?

348
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:38,300
What's important?

349
00:22:38,300 --> 00:22:39,300
What's not important?

350
00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:45,540
So that you can get some emotional context around why they answered the way they did to

351
00:22:45,540 --> 00:22:51,540
go with those rational numbers that show up in the engagement survey results themselves.

352
00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:56,340
The rational is okay, but without the emotional context around that, you're only getting

353
00:22:56,340 --> 00:22:57,340
half the story.

354
00:22:57,340 --> 00:22:58,340
I think.

355
00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:01,140
Yeah, absolutely.

356
00:23:01,140 --> 00:23:05,780
So in the world where we're all on our phone all the time and always sending emails and

357
00:23:05,780 --> 00:23:13,380
not communicating verbally, is there some tips that you can share with our listeners on

358
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:19,580
ways they can become a better communicator and maybe even listener when they're leading

359
00:23:19,580 --> 00:23:20,580
people?

360
00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:27,420
Yeah, and that really has become not that it never was, but it's become even more important

361
00:23:27,420 --> 00:23:34,100
now since the pandemic, mostly because almost every organization just threw any kind of

362
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:40,700
platform at their employees that they could to connect to them, teams and Slack and Zoom

363
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:43,380
and WebEx and whatever else like.

364
00:23:43,380 --> 00:23:46,860
All right, some of you aren't going to be working in this building anymore.

365
00:23:46,860 --> 00:23:47,860
That's fine.

366
00:23:47,860 --> 00:23:48,860
You can fight that or not.

367
00:23:48,860 --> 00:23:51,500
Anyway, but that's the reality.

368
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,180
Some of you will never have the opportunity because you're working on a similar line and

369
00:23:55,180 --> 00:23:57,820
that's just not an option for you.

370
00:23:57,820 --> 00:24:03,700
So what we've done is just throw a bunch of digital tools at everybody and we've done a

371
00:24:03,700 --> 00:24:10,100
pretty good job of connecting to them, but we've kind of forgotten about the main point

372
00:24:10,100 --> 00:24:12,940
of that, which is to connect with them.

373
00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:22,260
So the more you can use digital tools to have that feel like a true connection, it's a high

374
00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:27,540
tech approach to help deliver this high touch feeling.

375
00:24:27,540 --> 00:24:28,740
So an example of that.

376
00:24:28,740 --> 00:24:30,980
So most leaders, I'm going to make it up.

377
00:24:30,980 --> 00:24:36,380
So most leaders are going to have a team meeting on Mondays and Thursdays.

378
00:24:36,380 --> 00:24:39,900
And so they send out the invite and everybody shows up and then they go through the thing

379
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:45,180
for an hour, people are doing other stuff, probably supposed to pay me attention.

380
00:24:45,180 --> 00:24:48,260
And on Thursday, we're going to repeat that.

381
00:24:48,260 --> 00:24:53,500
That's the only time the leader really kind of connects with two their employees.

382
00:24:53,500 --> 00:25:00,260
So Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday are wonderful times to just schedule one-off meetings with

383
00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:04,740
any of your employees individually, small groups, or collectively.

384
00:25:04,740 --> 00:25:08,380
And you talk about anything but work.

385
00:25:08,380 --> 00:25:09,940
What's going on?

386
00:25:09,940 --> 00:25:13,140
How are things going in your life?

387
00:25:13,140 --> 00:25:18,580
People want to have conversations about things, particularly with their managers and leaders.

388
00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:20,180
They don't necessarily have to do with work.

389
00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:26,020
And the more you understand them as people, the better you'll understand them as your people.

390
00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:35,260
And so what can we do to have more connections that talk about what if versus all of what

391
00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:38,340
is that everybody has to deal with and focus on every day?

392
00:25:38,340 --> 00:25:45,580
And that's just an easy thing to do, particularly if you've got people connected digitally like

393
00:25:45,580 --> 00:25:46,580
that.

394
00:25:46,580 --> 00:25:51,460
If you don't, then the old school management by walking around concept still applies.

395
00:25:51,460 --> 00:25:54,380
You're going to have shift change meetings.

396
00:25:54,380 --> 00:25:56,660
You're going to do monthly or quarterly town halls.

397
00:25:56,660 --> 00:26:02,340
And that's how you primarily connect with your employees who aren't digitally connected.

398
00:26:02,340 --> 00:26:03,340
Great.

399
00:26:03,340 --> 00:26:06,540
In between that, get out there and talk with folks.

400
00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:08,260
You're lunch in the break room.

401
00:26:08,260 --> 00:26:11,860
You hang around in the parking lot like they hang around in the parking lot.

402
00:26:11,860 --> 00:26:18,060
Like all these things are opportunities for you to insert yourself into their lives.

403
00:26:18,060 --> 00:26:22,500
It's very hard for them to insert themselves into your life just because of the roles and

404
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:26,420
the dynamics and the politics of what happens inside most workplace.

405
00:26:26,420 --> 00:26:28,420
But it's easy for you to do that.

406
00:26:28,420 --> 00:26:30,300
So do more of that.

407
00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:35,180
That takes everybody's guard down and then you will get more honest feedback.

408
00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:36,980
Then you will get more questions.

409
00:26:36,980 --> 00:26:40,860
You will get more ideas because now people see you as not.

410
00:26:40,860 --> 00:26:46,220
He sits in there and every time he does something screwed up and probably my fault.

411
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:51,780
I have a conversation and a relationship with that leader on a more regular basis.

412
00:26:51,780 --> 00:26:56,140
Then it's perfectly acceptable for that person to come up to me and start a conversation

413
00:26:56,140 --> 00:27:00,300
because then I'm not panic that I've messed up.

414
00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:01,300
Yeah, absolutely.

415
00:27:01,300 --> 00:27:06,620
A lot of times I hear people say Jason, whether, well, I'm not.

416
00:27:06,620 --> 00:27:07,620
I'm just not social.

417
00:27:07,620 --> 00:27:08,620
I'm a non-social person.

418
00:27:08,620 --> 00:27:15,660
I like to come to work and do my job and eat my lunch and then go home and see my family.

419
00:27:15,660 --> 00:27:22,500
And I think if you're not social and you're not comfortable starting dialogue with people,

420
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:25,180
simple things like, wow, it's hot outside.

421
00:27:25,180 --> 00:27:26,180
Wow, can you believe it?

422
00:27:26,180 --> 00:27:29,020
It's known as the day of last night.

423
00:27:29,020 --> 00:27:30,620
How was your weekend?

424
00:27:30,620 --> 00:27:31,620
Whatever.

425
00:27:31,620 --> 00:27:35,580
I think those are teeny ways to start dialogue.

426
00:27:35,580 --> 00:27:42,820
I know a lot of times when I work in engineering, people would just, there would be 20 people

427
00:27:42,820 --> 00:27:46,800
in a room and they're all kind of circling and walking around each other, getting stuff

428
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,340
done and nobody's talking to each other.

429
00:27:49,340 --> 00:27:54,820
And I would stop and say, hey, how was your weekend?

430
00:27:54,820 --> 00:27:57,420
How was your kids ballet?

431
00:27:57,420 --> 00:28:01,780
And people would look at me kind of like, why is she asking?

432
00:28:01,780 --> 00:28:06,260
And I think that's the other side of what you were saying with these meetings is, we're all

433
00:28:06,260 --> 00:28:12,340
here to do a job no matter what, you know, whether if you're owner of a company or W2 employee,

434
00:28:12,340 --> 00:28:14,500
everybody has something to get done.

435
00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:19,820
But I think the human factor is really important in any teams or any business that you're running

436
00:28:19,820 --> 00:28:28,060
and really understanding who's working for you, what they're focusing on and just understanding

437
00:28:28,060 --> 00:28:29,540
outside of just doing their job.

438
00:28:29,540 --> 00:28:36,700
I think the more that you include that human factor in your dialogue, I think it will benefit

439
00:28:36,700 --> 00:28:40,020
everyone both in their personal and professional lives.

440
00:28:40,020 --> 00:28:41,820
God, if you nailed it there.

441
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:47,620
And the thing that's a mystery to me and you tell me if you've experienced this too, let's

442
00:28:47,620 --> 00:28:48,620
pretend.

443
00:28:48,620 --> 00:28:54,340
Whoever the leaders are, they're sitting up here and then everybody else is down here.

444
00:28:54,340 --> 00:28:59,340
At some point they were down here and their leaders are up there.

445
00:28:59,340 --> 00:29:03,660
So they started out, wherever it is they started out doing whatever it is they were doing and

446
00:29:03,660 --> 00:29:05,940
somehow they made it up here.

447
00:29:05,940 --> 00:29:09,420
And then when they were down here, they were like, when I get up there, I'm not going to

448
00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:10,420
do it that way.

449
00:29:10,420 --> 00:29:13,460
Now they're up there and now they're doing it that way.

450
00:29:13,460 --> 00:29:20,380
So what happens between here, here's where I started and here's where I am now because

451
00:29:20,380 --> 00:29:25,020
a lot of what you just described to me feels like they've forgotten what it's like to be where

452
00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:28,020
they themselves used to be.

453
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:30,300
And when they were there, they craved that.

454
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:31,300
They wanted that.

455
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:32,300
They needed that.

456
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:37,060
And now that they're the person that can deliver that, they somehow have forgotten the importance

457
00:29:37,060 --> 00:29:39,140
of that for the folks who need that.

458
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:43,060
It's just a mystery to me and that's just that's not being a leader.

459
00:29:43,060 --> 00:29:45,260
That's just being a human factor.

460
00:29:45,260 --> 00:29:50,180
And so to your point, the more human you can be and build those connections like that,

461
00:29:50,180 --> 00:29:58,660
the more you can identify with them because hey, you used to do that job too.

462
00:29:58,660 --> 00:29:59,660
Yeah, absolutely.

463
00:29:59,660 --> 00:30:06,300
I think from my experience, the higher up you get, the more you have to do, the more you

464
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:11,740
have on your mind and you're really moving from task to task to this, to that, to this

465
00:30:11,740 --> 00:30:12,740
to that.

466
00:30:12,740 --> 00:30:16,500
And so, you know, I call it the fighter flight way, right?

467
00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:20,100
And I know even myself, I get stuck in.

468
00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:23,940
And meeting, demeaning, demeaning, demeaning, demeaning.

469
00:30:23,940 --> 00:30:30,580
And what I've started to do this really helped Jason is not being reactionary to every email

470
00:30:30,580 --> 00:30:36,500
and every call and everything that happens to me and really focus on, have I touched base

471
00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,540
with the people that are important to touch base with?

472
00:30:39,540 --> 00:30:42,340
Do I understand what's going on?

473
00:30:42,340 --> 00:30:46,220
That's pertinent to their job and pertinent to them, right?

474
00:30:46,220 --> 00:30:51,140
They have a child's graduation, I've had some people with child graduation coming up in

475
00:30:51,140 --> 00:30:53,660
friends and they had to take some time off.

476
00:30:53,660 --> 00:30:59,900
And do I have, do I understand the human side so they can do the work side?

477
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:06,900
And I think the higher you get, the more pressure that's on you to get things done and your,

478
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:11,820
your high level building strategy and visions and making sure you're hitting the mark with

479
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:14,340
the financials and everything.

480
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:20,360
So I think the one thing I would say is if you aren't like you mentioned, if you're not

481
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:25,540
doing it now, calendar it on your calendar for yourself, you know what I mean?

482
00:31:25,540 --> 00:31:29,300
Have I spent five to ten minutes with somebody that's important to me?

483
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:34,860
Could be your spouse, could be your children, could be your boss and really just connect.

484
00:31:34,860 --> 00:31:36,660
It doesn't have to be about the job.

485
00:31:36,660 --> 00:31:39,620
And if you're not doing it, calendar it for yourself.

486
00:31:39,620 --> 00:31:40,620
Right.

487
00:31:40,620 --> 00:31:44,300
That's such an important point because, you know, you've said how you're getting

488
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:49,420
the organization, you know, the more senior you are, the more you have to do.

489
00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:55,660
But the flip side of that is that now you have the luxury to actually own your calendar.

490
00:31:55,660 --> 00:31:56,660
You own it.

491
00:31:56,660 --> 00:32:00,540
So if you're complaining like, I don't have time to do that because my whole day is filled

492
00:32:00,540 --> 00:32:01,540
with all these meetings.

493
00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:03,020
Don't go to all of them.

494
00:32:03,020 --> 00:32:05,460
It's your calendar to climb those things.

495
00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:09,060
Like if it's not important and I'm just kind of there to be there, I don't need to, I'm

496
00:32:09,060 --> 00:32:10,060
not going.

497
00:32:10,060 --> 00:32:12,420
Like you own your own calendar.

498
00:32:12,420 --> 00:32:17,380
So, you know, take control of it and build some, you know, take back some of your time and

499
00:32:17,380 --> 00:32:20,340
build some time in to do the kinds of things you've just described.

500
00:32:20,340 --> 00:32:24,620
And a point you made earlier, I think is an important one, particularly when managers and

501
00:32:24,620 --> 00:32:27,340
leaders say, oh, you know, I'm a little more introverted.

502
00:32:27,340 --> 00:32:31,500
I'm just not the kind of person who's going to do that kind of thing.

503
00:32:31,500 --> 00:32:32,500
I'm sorry.

504
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:34,940
You don't have that luxury as a leader.

505
00:32:34,940 --> 00:32:37,060
You don't have that luxury as a leader.

506
00:32:37,060 --> 00:32:42,380
What you have to understand is that communication is leadership, responsibility, not a department

507
00:32:42,380 --> 00:32:43,940
down the hall.

508
00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:47,940
You don't have to be a rock star at it, but you do have to try.

509
00:32:47,940 --> 00:32:51,140
And even if you're not that good at it, just try.

510
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:54,300
We'll get you halfway there with the people that you're trying with.

511
00:32:54,300 --> 00:33:00,140
And so, you just, you just got to have a different mindset for more people that you have reporting

512
00:33:00,140 --> 00:33:05,500
to you because that, that sole thing helped them to lead them, not manage them.

513
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:06,860
That's totally different thing.

514
00:33:06,860 --> 00:33:11,540
But helping to lead them is what's going to help things be more successful for them,

515
00:33:11,540 --> 00:33:12,540
for you, for the organization.

516
00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:18,780
And if you shrug off that responsibility, you are missing out both on being effective and

517
00:33:18,780 --> 00:33:21,780
having a much more enjoyable career to me.

518
00:33:21,780 --> 00:33:22,780
Yeah.

519
00:33:22,780 --> 00:33:26,180
I think, you know, if you have a company with 10 employees, you have more available time

520
00:33:26,180 --> 00:33:28,140
to call the 10 employees.

521
00:33:28,140 --> 00:33:31,660
If you have a company like you mentioned beginning with 60,000, it's going to be really

522
00:33:31,660 --> 00:33:36,540
hard for a CEO to call all 60,000 of his people in a year.

523
00:33:36,540 --> 00:33:39,140
But what could they use technology in AI?

524
00:33:39,140 --> 00:33:42,260
For example, you know everybody's birthday in your company.

525
00:33:42,260 --> 00:33:46,820
You send them a birthday card in their email.

526
00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:53,100
And if you're the bottom of the, the bottom of the company and you have, you know, a task

527
00:33:53,100 --> 00:34:00,500
where you'll never engage the CEO, getting a card from a CEO and you have, you're not an

528
00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,980
executive, it matters.

529
00:34:02,980 --> 00:34:04,460
It means something.

530
00:34:04,460 --> 00:34:09,220
But I know that those little teeny tiny things, although they seem like there are a lot of

531
00:34:09,220 --> 00:34:13,580
work, there's tools out there where they can automatically be done for you and you can

532
00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:15,820
touch all your employees.

533
00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:17,940
And that is such a great idea.

534
00:34:17,940 --> 00:34:24,460
And to me, the power of that thing is that if it's a card that you personally sign and

535
00:34:24,460 --> 00:34:30,260
it gets mailed and sent to the employees home, nothing is more powerful than an analog

536
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:33,500
thing like that in a digital world, you know.

537
00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:39,780
It's just a powerful way to deliver a message that has to do with work, but you're receiving

538
00:34:39,780 --> 00:34:44,180
it at home and your family always wants to know more about what you're doing.

539
00:34:44,180 --> 00:34:49,900
You're proud of what you do and that is getting recognized in front of your family inside

540
00:34:49,900 --> 00:34:51,820
your own home.

541
00:34:51,820 --> 00:34:54,980
And there's nothing more powerful than that.

542
00:34:54,980 --> 00:34:55,980
Absolutely.

543
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:56,980
I'll tell you a quick story.

544
00:34:56,980 --> 00:35:03,060
I had an employee about four years ago who I didn't directly manage, but I had spent

545
00:35:03,060 --> 00:35:08,780
some time helping them with some things they were struggling with at the company.

546
00:35:08,780 --> 00:35:17,380
And this employee left the company and had sent me a letter, like you mentioned, a hand-written

547
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:23,060
letter about how much it meant that I saw them and I spent time with them.

548
00:35:23,060 --> 00:35:27,660
And I'll tell you, I didn't, you know, I did do a ton of meetings or anything.

549
00:35:27,660 --> 00:35:31,260
It was just a very simple meeting to help them sort through some things and really just

550
00:35:31,260 --> 00:35:37,220
to be a sounding board, but to one person that was everything.

551
00:35:37,220 --> 00:35:41,380
And they took the time to send me, you know, a thank you.

552
00:35:41,380 --> 00:35:49,540
And for me, I was blown away and it really impacted me and how I lead people based off this

553
00:35:49,540 --> 00:35:52,820
letter that I received from somebody years and years ago.

554
00:35:52,820 --> 00:36:00,060
But I just challenged all the leaders out there to figure out what works.

555
00:36:00,060 --> 00:36:05,940
And if you're a time poor and you have 100,000 employees and you can't touch everyone,

556
00:36:05,940 --> 00:36:09,820
like you mentioned, Jason, could you hand write a card or hand write a bunch of cards and

557
00:36:09,820 --> 00:36:12,300
have somebody mail them for you?

558
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:18,420
Or could you do, you know, a round table with all your employees and just casually connect

559
00:36:18,420 --> 00:36:24,700
with them one supporter or one some one, been no specific reason just to connect with the

560
00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:26,540
people that work in your organization?

561
00:36:26,540 --> 00:36:27,540
Yeah.

562
00:36:27,540 --> 00:36:29,540
I love that thought about those notes.

563
00:36:29,540 --> 00:36:31,660
A lot of times people are like, oh, I'll just fire off an email.

564
00:36:31,660 --> 00:36:33,620
We've all gotten those kind of emails before.

565
00:36:33,620 --> 00:36:35,620
But like, where do they go?

566
00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:38,860
Like, I got an email 10 years ago from a leader at the company I worked for.

567
00:36:38,860 --> 00:36:41,780
I don't have that anymore.

568
00:36:41,780 --> 00:36:43,900
But I keep this right at my desk.

569
00:36:43,900 --> 00:36:47,860
Somebody took the time to write me a note and say, hey, you did this and it meant something

570
00:36:47,860 --> 00:36:48,860
to me.

571
00:36:48,860 --> 00:36:49,860
Thank you very much.

572
00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:53,820
It is right here in front of me and it will be here until I go out of this house feet

573
00:36:53,820 --> 00:36:55,820
first because it matters.

574
00:36:55,820 --> 00:36:59,100
I don't know where the other emails are, but that is right there.

575
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:03,420
And when I'm having not a very good day, I like to read that and that gets me going.

576
00:37:03,420 --> 00:37:04,420
Yeah.

577
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:05,420
Well said.

578
00:37:05,420 --> 00:37:08,620
I am closing here on a mindful of time.

579
00:37:08,620 --> 00:37:13,500
Any final thoughts or anything you want to share with our listeners that we didn't touch

580
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:14,500
on here today?

581
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:19,060
Well, I think, you know, we touched on so much like you were saying you and your friends

582
00:37:19,060 --> 00:37:20,340
do in the short amount of time.

583
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:21,340
You cover a lot of things.

584
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:28,940
I felt like we did too, but, you know, I just really want to emphasize the fact that, you know,

585
00:37:28,940 --> 00:37:34,740
particularly with AI and automation and factories and manufacturing sites are coming, you know,

586
00:37:34,740 --> 00:37:39,620
so full of technology and all that is great and we need to be moving in that direction

587
00:37:39,620 --> 00:37:43,380
certainly as a society and as a culture as a whole.

588
00:37:43,380 --> 00:37:50,860
But as that gets to be more and more and more, the personal, human, analog things will

589
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:54,060
mean more and more and more.

590
00:37:54,060 --> 00:37:58,780
And so, you know, are there ways that you can do things digitally that will help you connect

591
00:37:58,780 --> 00:37:59,780
with two folks?

592
00:37:59,780 --> 00:38:00,780
Yes.

593
00:38:00,780 --> 00:38:02,700
There are plenty of that and you're already doing that.

594
00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:07,620
But the idea is to use those things to connect with them.

595
00:38:07,620 --> 00:38:13,380
And the more as a leader, the more as a manager, even if you're just a frontline supervisor,

596
00:38:13,380 --> 00:38:14,380
it doesn't matter.

597
00:38:14,380 --> 00:38:18,180
You've got people who are relying on you or looking to you.

598
00:38:18,180 --> 00:38:23,900
The best way to connect with them is to have that feel as human as possible.

599
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:30,100
Face to face, ideal, video, second to that, you know, anything analog, you can send them.

600
00:38:30,100 --> 00:38:35,300
It just creates a special connection that there's just no way digital stuff can ever do.

601
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:38,780
And if you haven't done it and are scared to do it, don't be scared.

602
00:38:38,780 --> 00:38:39,780
It will be well received.

603
00:38:39,780 --> 00:38:42,940
You can misspell every word in there and have the worst hand-write.

604
00:38:42,940 --> 00:38:43,940
They won't care.

605
00:38:43,940 --> 00:38:46,380
They got a note from their boss and that matters.

606
00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:49,340
So you talk about what engagement means.

607
00:38:49,340 --> 00:38:50,340
That's what it means.

608
00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:52,140
That's exactly what it means.

609
00:38:52,140 --> 00:38:53,140
Not.

610
00:38:53,140 --> 00:38:55,740
Oh, I can't wait to wake up and get more earnings per share.

611
00:38:55,740 --> 00:38:56,940
Nobody thinks that.

612
00:38:56,940 --> 00:39:00,940
I can't wait to wake up and go to a place where I feel appreciated and I get to do my best

613
00:39:00,940 --> 00:39:03,340
work and I get recognized for that.

614
00:39:03,340 --> 00:39:06,020
That's what engagement is and if that's what everybody wants.

615
00:39:06,020 --> 00:39:10,660
And leaders, managers, supervisors, it's in your hands to do it.

616
00:39:10,660 --> 00:39:11,660
Yep.

617
00:39:11,660 --> 00:39:12,660
Yep.

618
00:39:12,660 --> 00:39:13,660
Absolutely.

619
00:39:13,660 --> 00:39:14,660
Well said.

620
00:39:14,660 --> 00:39:20,380
Jason, thank you so much for being here with us today on the Executive Connect podcast

621
00:39:20,380 --> 00:39:24,980
and sharing all your knowledge in this space.

622
00:39:24,980 --> 00:39:27,980
That's it for us today on the Executive Connect podcast.

623
00:39:27,980 --> 00:39:30,980
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