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We're so impoverished today on the level of experience.

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We're not experiencing our lives.

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We're just floating through it like in a dream.

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We're not actually awake.

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I wanted to make this a book about your own experience day to day to day

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and how you can take these ideas and put them into practice.

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That the world that you see through your senses is not reality.

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It is not what a bat sees.

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It is not what any other creature would see.

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It is what our consciousness, our human brain is capable of presenting to us

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and our brains are so powerful that we cannot take so much information in or overwhelms us.

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Welcome to the Re-Patterning Podcast where we believe your mind body system is your domain

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and that choosing the beliefs, habits and patterns that best support you is your birthright.

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I'm your host, Arden Leigh, creator of the Re-Patterning Project,

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an eight week course in learning to free yourself from the patterns of your past

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and program your mind for your dreams of the future.

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Join me for these extraordinary conversations as we unpack the keys to creating our reality.

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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Re-Patterning Podcast.

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I'm your host, Arden Leigh and I am the creator and facilitator of the Re-Patterning Project,

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the eight week course that inspires these conversations

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with some of my favorite people, some of my favorite authors, thinkers and leaders

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in today's contemporary world.

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And today, speaking of some of my favorite authors and favorite thought leaders,

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you guys, I cannot describe how ecstatic I feel today to be interviewing none other

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than Robert Greene himself.

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Some of you may have just been following me since maybe the start of this podcast

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or since the launch of the Re-Patterning Project a few years ago.

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But for those of you who may have known me from my much earlier work, especially back in the days

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when I was a dating coach and a blogger in that sphere,

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Robert's work was so influential on me in my thinking.

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I cannot overstate the ways that his books have shaped my mind and my thoughts and my beliefs

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and just approve it to you.

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I'm going to show you that I have every single one of them by introducing the books he has written

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us far.

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Here we have the 48 laws of power.

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This is his most popular one that you're probably most likely to have heard of.

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And then next we have the 33 strategies of war.

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Robert also co-authored a book with rapper 50 cent called the 50th law.

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Next we have mastery by Robert Greene.

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And then his most recent book, The Laws of Human Nature.

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And of course he has an upcoming book which we're going to chat about today, which, oh my

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gosh, what a privilege it is to have been able to read a little bit of the preface and

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the summaries of the chapters before it's out and you guys, it's, I'm so excited for

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this book.

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I cannot, cannot overstate how excited I am for this side of Robert to come out.

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But before we get into that, I have to of course show my copy of my favorite of Robert's

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books.

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I'm telling on myself, you guys a few years ago, I went to lunch with Robert and I brought

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my copy of this book for him to sign and this is my copy of the art of seduction.

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If you're not watching the video, I'll describe for you this book has, I've read it so many

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times that it is literally into pieces.

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It is cracked down the spine.

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There is a huge chunk of the cover that's missing and Robert was so kind as to to sign it

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right there on the, on the title page.

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And Robert, I remember when I showed this to you when we first had lunch a few years ago,

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I believe you told me that it was the most worn copy of that book of yours that you would

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ever seen, which I personally, I, I count as a point of pride.

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I think I can say that definitively yes.

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I've seen some 48 laws of power that are pretty beat up, but that is definitely the most

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beat up art of seduction.

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Oh, man.

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And you know what's so funny about it too is that I almost feel like the art of seduction

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in a way was almost an introduction for me also into the world of the sublime because it

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was by creating and curating experiences for other people that I either loved or had crushes

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on or you know, just just had this abundance of feelings of affection for it.

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And I feel like I was almost very desensitized to the world myself, you know, through trauma,

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et cetera and things like that that I hadn't addressed at that point in time.

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And creating and curating this experience as for others was my connection into that excitement

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in the world to get to experience it through them vicariously.

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And so I'm really excited to talk about your newest book today, The Law of the Sublime.

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Tell us a little bit about what inspired you to tackle this topic.

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Well, well, thank you for starting for having me.

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That was quite a wonderful introduction.

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It had been a subject that had fascinated me probably some 26, 27 years ago.

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I read some literary book about the sublime and I thought, I'm always interested in ideas

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that I've never come across before that make me think of the world in a different light.

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This was a very academic book but it had that effect on me that this is a strange and interesting

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concept but it's something very much having to do with our lives.

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And so I had intended to write the book probably in around '06 or so is going to be my fourth book

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I believe.

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And then I got sidetracked by the 50 cent project by mastery by human nature.

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And then in 2018 I had a stroke.

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I came this close to dying and I'm in the ambulance taking me back home after a week in the hospital.

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And when you have a kind of a near death experience like I had,

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it tends to shake up your consciousness in a very profound way that no drugs, no other

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experience in life can ever have that kind of effect.

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And so I'm in the ambulance coming home and I'm going, this is the time to write the book

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on the sublime that I've been thinking about for so many years because not only had I

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come close to death but I felt it inside my body.

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And when you feel that it's a strange eerie feeling, it's a power in it that's just so

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intense.

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It's very hard to just, you can't words can't describe it.

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And the sublime is particularly any experience in life, you can almost define it this way that

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words cannot possibly encompass.

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I'm somebody who believes that a lot of our problems come from language, come from thinking

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too much about things from, I think so many labels about the world that we never ever really

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see or experience the world as it is.

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We experience everything through words but when you touch the sublime it's like an electric

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shock, it's like touching actually something that's going to make your whole body vibrate.

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You can't find the words to describe it, it transcends language.

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And I believe the most powerful experiences we can have in a human relationship and dealing

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with animals and looking at the world around us in fact, just the fact of being alive are

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things you can't really put into words and that's what the beauty of them is.

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Now the paradox here is that I'm writing a 460 page book with words trying to describe

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what words cannot encompass.

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Right.

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So it took me seven years to write such a book but there it is.

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So that's sort of what's behind it all.

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I feel like seven years also is just such an archetypal fairy tale length for a journey

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too.

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And we thought of that, that's interesting, yeah.

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Right.

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Well, part of the problem was, I didn't intend to

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obviously no one ever intends to take seven years to write a book but from my stroke I had

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a my left hand just doesn't function so I can't type.

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So I had to write this entire hand write this entire book.

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And of course at some point I dictated it into my computer but everything was hand written

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and by the time I finally got to the final version of a chapter I would edit it with one

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hand.

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But I before that I had to do everything in this very Byzantine process of notebooks, one

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notebook to another notebook, something from like the 13th century.

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And so that added at least a year and then also not being able to take a walk to get outside

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of myself to sort of being trapped in my body in my office.

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Also added time to this book because I was somebody who was very, I like to go outdoors

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a lot and get my mind outside of my, outside of my off, you know, my work.

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I had no outlets.

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So it was a really difficult, it was a wonderful book to write but it was so challenging.

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I can't explain.

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I can imagine and I feel like sometimes when we have those, it's that the freedom of structure

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right, we have like limitations imposed upon us and it actually in some ways engenders

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our creativity.

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And I feel like writing a book like that out by hand which oh my goodness, I'm happy you

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still have a right hand left because oh my gosh, I had to have been exhausting.

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But I feel like in that there must be, and with your permission, I almost kind of want

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to divine on this later and just ask spirit if there's anything there to the fact that

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that hardship, that arduous process of it, of the writing it, there had to have almost

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been something magical to that process or infusing the book with all of the work and the dedication

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that it took to do that.

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Well, you know, for thousands of years, and humans wrote books without computers.

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I mean, they had pens, they had stones, they had everything imaginable but people managed

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before computers to write a book.

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And the thing is that the way the human brain is constructed, there's a very special

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relationship between the brain and the hand.

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And the feeling, I bought all these like fountain pens because I was so frustrated by this

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process, the feeling of the hand on the page, it brings something different, different

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channel in the brain than just typing away computer, you know, scrolling like everything

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you do every day.

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There's a different part of the brain that's activated.

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So there's a different feel to the book because of that.

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And then the second thing is because this process was so slow, I had to think even more deeply

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than I would normally have to think.

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It's hard to explain but the slowness of it, you know, it definitely affected and influenced

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the way the book came out.

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And so I do think there is some weird spiritual element to the physicality of this book.

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It was like my whole body was somehow in it, it wasn't just like a virtual thing like how

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we normally live.

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It was a very kind of physical book for me to write.

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I believe that entirely.

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And I also think that when we're putting dedication and effort into a creative work that

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there is a sort of almost like law, like a hermetic principle where the more effort or the

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more work something takes us, the greater it comes out on the other.

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Not necessarily even in quality of the project itself, although it can manifest that way.

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But just in whatever way it happens to whether it's the power of the people that it touches

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or the intent that it is released into the world with that goes out in a greater way.

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I know I've experienced that with some of my projects.

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So I don't know, maybe you'll find that as well.

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I'm excited to see when the book comes out.

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Oh completely.

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I have a concept in chapter two when I talk about the biological sublime and how strange

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it is just the chapter is called awake into the strangeness of being alive.

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And I have this concept that I'd call embedded time.

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And so I don't know if you've, do you ever see drag and flies if you take a walk?

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Like just a drag and fly, a common drag and fly?

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You know, not in years, but I can recall from year to now.

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Well, they are the most strange, most miraculous creatures on this planet.

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First of all, they're one of the oldest creatures that go back 200, 300 million years ago.

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And they're probably the first creature that took to flight.

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And the reason I talked about it in the book is we think that something we develop in

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a couple of years on some projects, some applications, some computer thing.

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We take two, three years.

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It's going to be a really great product.

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Well, think of evolution of something being created over millions and millions of millions of

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years with all of these different dangers that are have to be overcome, all these changes

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in climate, all these changes in predators around everything, you know, and adapting to different

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flora, different fauna.

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The drag and fly is the most remarkable flying creature on the planet.

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It can hover, it can go backwards, it can go forwards, it can go like a helicopter.

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People have tried studying it, they can't figure it out.

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It has two sets of wings that can move independently of the other.

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So this is a roundabout way to say something that takes so long to create over so much time

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and so much trauma and so many challenges is going to end up being this miraculous creature

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which is the drag and fly.

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And in some ways, the human animal, which I don't think is as miraculous to me as a drag and fly,

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that is pretty remarkable creature.

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The millions of years, the hundreds of thousands of years that went into our evolution is created

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who we are.

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So time, when you put time as the coefficient in any kind of production, it is what makes

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something great.

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And it's the problem that so many people have now in the world today with things like AI.

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People are averse to putting time into anything.

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But our and I can tell you, time is what created the human animal is what differentiates us

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from everything else.

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We are the creature in time, we are the creature that creates history.

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So the longer we take to make something, the more thinking goes in it, the more brilliant

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the product will be, the more original it will be.

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Not to say that my book is on the level of a drag and fly, so please don't get me wrong.

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Anyway, that's sort of my answer to that.

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Well, you're definitely speaking my language, especially as someone who feels facilitates

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a course, especially when I first started putting it out there and I started getting into the

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business coaching world, especially like right before the pandemic, there was like the business

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coaching boom, the coach boom.

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And there was all this rhetoric in those circles about like quantum leap, you know, you don't

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need more certifications, you don't need more of this.

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You can just, you know, immediately quantum leap yourself into your, you know, start premium,

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stay premium.

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And there's something that was so distasteful around that.

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And I think that it actually in some ways, harken back to my reading of mastery, which is

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like, you know, like you can't, you can't, there are certain, like as someone who loves to

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play with time and who loves to like shorten and lengthen and things like that.

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And like, I love, you know, I love finding ways around things.

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I love finding, you know, those little hidden trapdoors and shortcuts, quote unquote, but

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you really can't cut corners and expect the same quality.

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You can maybe find some interesting ways around things, but it really is like when you're

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talking about mastery, it really is time that does that in ways that nothing else really

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will.

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Yeah.

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I mean, when I read a really great book, I can feel the time that went into it.

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It has, it's a spiritual quality.

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It's something invisible.

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We can, we're so visual that everything is spatial and, and so we always think in spatial

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terms.

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We can't really see time, right?

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And so we don't think of it as, as important, but when I read something or I see it, or he

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wants to do a piece of music or see an artwork that I know took so much time, or even if I

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don't know, I can feel, I can feel it, it's embedded inside of it.

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It has a spirit that it happens to work.

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I want to ask about my personal, well, gosh, it was hard to pick a favorite one of all

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your different descriptions of the different archetypes of the sublime.

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But the one that I will say is the most relevant at least to us here at the Re-Patterning podcast.

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I think I know it's.

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Yes, the neural sublime.

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I'm just, oh, no, oh, really?

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What, which one did you think it was going to be?

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Oh, God.

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I thought maybe it's going to be the love sublime.

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Oh, well, that's relevant to me personally.

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I have, don't worry.

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I definitely have stuff written down about that too.

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But I want to talk about that.

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Okay, okay.

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So in terms of Re-Patterning, and I'll share, you know, just a little bit of what you wrote in

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the synopsis of that chapter, the neural sublime, you said, what we are actually experiencing

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is a construction of the brain built on a series of illusions and filters it generates to

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explore what lies outside this edited version of reality is perhaps the most sublime journey

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we can take by peering into our own consciousness.

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We can remove the filters and see through the illusions opening ourselves up to wider dimensions

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of perception, thinking, and feeling.

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And here at the Re-Patterning podcast and the course, the Re-Patterning project, that is what I

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hope to engender in folks is a spirit of looking beyond our automated programming, our sort

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of automated behaviors and processes and saying like, well, what if I thought this way

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or that way, like to almost be able to see like above the wall, like beyond the curtain,

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moment you see it, you know, my hope at least is for folks is that you can't unsee it and

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that then changes everything.

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But I would love to know what are some of your ways of guiding people through that process

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or encouraging them to look beyond their typical ways of thinking.

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Well, so in this book, the structure of it is, I begin with a story that kind of shows

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the demonstrates it, then I describe some of the ideas in a section I call keys and

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then I have more stories and then the final section, I have, I know it sounds sort of bano,

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but I have exercises that will help you bring these kinds of things into your daily experience

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because what I think is, we're so impoverished today and I really feel strongly about this,

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is on the level of experience.

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We're not experiencing our lives, we're just floating through it like in a dream, we're

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not actually awake.

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And so I wanted to make this a book about your own experience day to day to day and how

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you can take these ideas and put them into practice.

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Well, I think on this particular chapter, simply thinking about it and absorbing this idea

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that the world that you see through your senses is not reality.

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It is not what a bat sees, it is not what any other creature, it's not what an extraterrestrial

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would see.

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It is what our consciousness, our human brain is capable of presenting to us and our brains

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are so powerful that we cannot take so much information in or overwhelms us.

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So the way our brains evolved is it's a mechanism for kind of shortening everything down and

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making everything simple.

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And so I think, and I have a story that introduces this chapter about a woman, a neuroscientist who

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has a stroke in her brain and as she has a stroke in her brain, everything starts to shut down

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and she starts to see the world as it is before the brain starts constructing it.

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So she sees visually what the world really is before our brains put it all together into

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an image.

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She sees the grainyness, she sees the pixelations.

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She sees that her body is actually a part of the shower, is part of the room that she's

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living in.

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Our brains create a sense of having a separate body, as part of our brain that is just about

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our own bodies and how we navigate the world.

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So this reality of how the world looks, of how it feels to us is a complete construction.

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And the idea is, if you can just for a second absorb it and stop sleep walking through

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life, just absorb it for a minute, it will have a very powerful effect on you, right?

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It will make you aware that well, maybe I'm not seeing everything that I could see and a

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very important part of that chapter was Ados Huxley and the doors of perception and his

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experimenting with drugs, with LSD and the peyote etc.

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But he calls this big mind.

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If we could get rid of all those filters, we would suddenly start seeing things that we've

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never seen before, visually, perceptually, right?

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And the world would look different to us.

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And sometimes when you take drugs and I must confess that when I was in college and to

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the years afterwards, I did take a lot of hallucinogenic, the world definitely looks different.

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It has a vibrancy to it that you don't normally see.

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Things out in the world are sparkling.

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They're so intense when the sunlight on things, it's almost like insanity, how brilliant,

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how vivid, how intense the visual world can be when you get rid of all these stupid filters.

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Another person called it the survival mechanism, that in order to survive the brain shuts everything

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down and limits the number of information, it's because a lot has to do with our fear of

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death and the fact that we only want the information that we need to get by in our day-to-day

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lives, when that mechanism, those filters disappear or vanish, the world appears very different.

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And so I talk about how visually you can do that in just taking a walk and suddenly sort

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of seeing what I call the fringes of consciousness, what the life is just beyond, but it also has

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to do with your thinking, how your thinking is just so, is just so patterned, is so over

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and over and over again, the same things day in, day out, day in, day out, that you can take

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your thoughts into those fringes of consciousness and start thinking that the world is not really

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what you think it is.

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And so kind of imagining new ways of thinking and opening your mind, emotions, there's a

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fringes of our emotional life, emotions we've never experienced before.

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The sublime is a very strange emotional experience in that it combines pleasure, a pleasurable

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feeling of your mind expanding with a fear of the feeling of terror, like the world is

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strange.

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These are unfamiliar things.

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I don't really understand them.

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You know, you look at the night sky, it's so immense, it almost makes you feel so insignificant

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and small, but it's also fascinating.

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And mixed of pain and pleasure is what creates the sublime creates that kind of tingly sensation

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it gives.

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These are emotions we don't normally feel.

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So I'm trying to draw you into these fringes of consciousness and I give practical exercises

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on doing it, but just realizing that the reality you take, what you take for reality is a

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construction of your brain is enough to start triggering this process.

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Believe me, you swallow that pill, you'll walk around in the world.

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We'll start looking different to you.

337
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Yes, oh my gosh, yes, absolutely.

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Just thinking about it and starting to push those edges of consciousness, I agree 100%.

339
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I have to say, Robert, I love this new spiritual side of you that I see coming out and this

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side that's full of wonder because I know, you know, with a lot of your past books, you know,

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you know this.

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I've been publicly somewhat controversial figure.

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Some of your books have been called Machiavellian, you know, that people will use them to play

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these sort of, you know, the games of power and all of those things.

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And for me personally, I'm just going to say, you know, when I came across the 48 laws

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of power when I was much younger as an undiagnosed autistic femme who was very like hard on

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her sleep.

348
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You?

349
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Oh, absolutely.

350
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Are you kidding?

351
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I mean, now I'm diagnosed, but yeah.

352
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You're you're you're on the spectrum.

353
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I am.

354
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I am.

355
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I got the tism, baby.

356
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I would I would never ever think that I usually can kind of pick that up.

357
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I would have never thought that interesting.

358
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You know, it's funny is that for women, it presents very differently.

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It's something that, you know, and I only learned this in last few years myself, but a lot

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of women who like grow up is very like creative and daydreamy, but maybe also like have

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trouble keeping friends sometimes or who like don't always like to meet for me like that's

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why your books were in some ways so helpful is because the 48 laws of power actually taught

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me about like, oh, people are not just going to be honest with you, the way that you are

364
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honest with people and actually like being honest with them with is is not always the

365
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best way to like navigate through the way, you know, when through your actions, not through

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your argument, you know, always say less than necessary.

367
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Like that was huge for me like that.

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I feel like the difference between medicine and poison is dozed, you know, and for me, I

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think those books were certainly medicine, but I know for, you know, you've received criticism,

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like I'll just say it like, you know, you know, you know that.

371
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But to see this, this other side that is like so full of wonder and like harkening back

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to like the childhood sublime, for example, which I'd love to talk about too.

373
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I just want to say like how cool it is to see this really like expansive beyond the sort

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of like the social focus that so many of your books have focused on this sort of the greater,

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like the greater mystery of the world around us.

376
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Like I just want to say I love that side of you.

377
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It's really awesome to see.

378
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:35,800
Oh, well, thank you.

379
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,800
Well, thank you very much.

380
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,680
I hope you still say that when you read the book, but yeah, you know, each one of us are

381
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complex individuals.

382
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We have many sides to us.

383
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And when you write a book, part of yourself comes out into that book.

384
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So the 48 laws of power is a part of me.

385
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It's part of my personality.

386
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So it's the artist's deduction.

387
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So, but they're not the full picture.

388
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That's not completely who I am.

389
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So this is another side that's been inside me for many, many, many, many, many years.

390
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You know, my interest, I originally wanted to be a novelist.

391
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I really, really wanted to write literature.

392
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And so there's another side to me that, yeah, I could express more deeply in this book.

393
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,400
So that's very perceptive of you.

394
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,760
Well, thank you.

395
00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:24,280
And I wanted to ask you on that note, you have one of the archetypes of the sublime is

396
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:25,760
the pagan sublime.

397
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,200
And I'll share, I'll read just a little bit of what you wrote about that in your summary.

398
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,760
So our audience can follow along.

399
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:37,360
That it involves a return to the perspective of our early ancestors who sought to open

400
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,080
themselves up to the world and internalize its powers and energy and a reinterpretation

401
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,320
of the rituals and techniques they created to bring themselves closer to death in order

402
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,080
to feel reborn.

403
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:54,400
And obviously, you know, your near death experience that you spoke about at the beginning of our

404
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:55,400
talk.

405
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,200
Obviously, I feel like my fall into that category.

406
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,160
But I'm so curious as someone who, I don't know, I would describe myself as a pagan though

407
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,680
it's perhaps I'm pagan in pagan adjacent.

408
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:11,840
But as someone who is a practitioner, yeah, you know, like if you, if you, all right,

409
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,840
I love it.

410
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:14,840
Yeah.

411
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:21,240
As someone who is certainly a practitioner of magic and a student of the occult, I'm really

412
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:28,600
interested to hear what for you have been sort of your reimagining of perhaps some of those

413
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:34,200
pagan or or pagan adjacent rituals that maybe you've incorporated into your own life.

414
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,640
Well, have you heard of the Ellucinian mysteries?

415
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:40,720
You know, I've heard of the name, but I would not be able to define them on command.

416
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,000
Well, I tell the story of the Ellucinian mysteries.

417
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:49,560
It's one of the oldest, most amazing rituals that humans have ever created.

418
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:53,200
It existed for 1500 years.

419
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:58,680
It's probably the longest lasting ritual that just fascinated people in ancient Rome and

420
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,000
ancient, it started in ancient Greece.

421
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:07,960
And I did a lot of research and I tell a fictional story that recreates the Ellucinian mysteries

422
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,520
as if you're going through it.

423
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:17,360
And the point is is that our ancestors, now I'm not going to romanticize everything about

424
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:18,360
ancient Greece.

425
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Obviously there was slavery.

426
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Women were oppressed.

427
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,080
So I'm not going to go in that direction.

428
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:30,800
But on the level of experience and day to day experience, the closeness to being alive

429
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:36,840
and the emotional richness, the openness of the senses, the relationship to everything

430
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:43,160
around in the world was so much more intense than anything in our modern experience.

431
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:51,400
We can't even begin to imagine how it was to live in these kind of rituals, the intensity

432
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,880
of it, the spectacle of it was just unbelievable.

433
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:03,200
And in this particular Ellucinian mystery, they're trying to make you feel like you died,

434
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:04,200
right?

435
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:08,040
Literally trying to make you feel like in the midst of this experience you died and then

436
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160
you are reborn and that is part of the mystery.

437
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:17,000
And it did involve probably some hallucinogenic plants that people drank, probably poppy

438
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:21,640
seeds, probably opium or whatever you want to call it.

439
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:29,160
But it was in this intense theater that involved so many different aspects of it.

440
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:35,400
And the idea is the pagan idea of a god is not what we think it is.

441
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,960
And I really try and go in and explain it.

442
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,560
We think of Zeus and Hera and all the other religions as being these kind of mythical fairy

443
00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:47,440
like figures that live in the sky and do all these crazy things.

444
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,760
They're like humans but they're gods.

445
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,880
So that's not how they experience religion.

446
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,640
To them the gods were like spirits in the world.

447
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,320
They lived in nature and they possessed you.

448
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:08,200
So for instance, if Aphrodite possessed you, when you fell in love, you desired a person

449
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,280
so deep, so intensely you felt crazy.

450
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,520
What you thought of was that Aphrodite had literally taken possession of you.

451
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,240
She was inside of you.

452
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:24,560
In the Ellucinian mysteries, it was the goddess Demeter and her daughter Persephone who became

453
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,480
the goddess of the underworld who literally passed through you.

454
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,160
You felt their intensity.

455
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,960
You felt the fire of that person in you.

456
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,800
And so the idea of gods was possession.

457
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:42,440
It wasn't like an actual entity or person or thing.

458
00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:49,840
It was actually a force that possessed you, a spiritual force that came inside your body.

459
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:58,080
So they called that in ancient Greek, they called that entheos which meant to be full of God.

460
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,600
There's nothing like anything in our religious experience.

461
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,600
Now some people in Pentecostal Christianity have that slight sense of possession of Christ

462
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:07,920
possessing them.

463
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:10,120
That's a slight modern remnant of it.

464
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,000
There are some Islamic things related to that have still survived.

465
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,200
But generally our relationship to religion is so dead, is so spiritless.

466
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,440
It's like this distant God out there who is kind of overlooking everything.

467
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,040
It has nothing to do with our day to day experience.

468
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,720
It's not something that possesses us in body and soul.

469
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,440
So I'm trying to give you the idea, humans out there, that there were things in pagan

470
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:42,320
world that are superior to us in all of our modern sophistication.

471
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,960
They had a way of relating things that was kind of closer to how life is.

472
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,400
They had less of those filth-dream mechanisms.

473
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,400
They lived less in that virtual world that were also trapped in.

474
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,360
And so I try and bring us back to what it felt like.

475
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,440
I'm not trying to intellectualize it.

476
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:07,040
I'm trying to tell you what it felt like to be religious in a society where there was no

477
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:13,320
differentiation between the spiritual world and the everyday world.

478
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:18,040
There was no division between art and society and religion.

479
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,920
Art and religion were one.

480
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,320
And your experience of everything in your life involved these elements that were very,

481
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:27,160
very intense.

482
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:33,520
And so the whole point of that chapter is to connect you to our human roots.

483
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,320
And indigenous cultures have this incredible, I've always, since I was a child, been fascinated

484
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,000
by indigenous cultures.

485
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,360
Something about it I can relate to in a way, I don't know why.

486
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:51,240
I see something in the Metropolitan Museum of Art of like Ancient Assyria and my brain

487
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:52,240
goes crazy.

488
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,080
I'm so excited about it.

489
00:33:54,080 --> 00:34:00,360
Before I read and I have a chapter later on and I describe cave paintings in France, I

490
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,840
can't tell you how excited that makes me feel, I feel so connected to our ancient ancestors.

491
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:13,680
And I want everyone to start feeling that way because we're also disconnected from our past,

492
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,800
from who we are as human beings.

493
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:21,160
We have this incredibly rich history that stretches back tens of thousands of years.

494
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,480
So that was the point of this particular chapter.

495
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:25,720
I love that.

496
00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:31,800
And I have to say though, I agree with you that so many of our religions, at least as practice,

497
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:37,520
especially in contemporary America and the corruptions of evangelical Christianity and

498
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,840
so much that's going on there and then the erudity of Protestantism and a lot of things

499
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:42,840
like that.

500
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:50,280
But I will say what you describe as there was no difference between the gods and everyday

501
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,120
life and from art and religion.

502
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:54,880
That's like, that's at my house every day.

503
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,280
So we can hang out more often if you want.

504
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:58,280
Okay, alright.

505
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,680
I've experienced possession.

506
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,640
I often kind of say half jokingly but it's kind of true, you know, the difference between

507
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,320
possession and channeling is consent.

508
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:12,880
It's like if I have, if I give consent to a being to speak through me, I've had that happen

509
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:13,880
at times.

510
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:18,560
And I've also had an experience earlier this year where I was partially possessed.

511
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,520
And when I didn't realize until about five days in and when I realized it, I was able to

512
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:23,520
clear it.

513
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,240
But yeah, it's, it's, you know, I'm in a pact.

514
00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:31,720
I'm in a contract with the god Hermes for, you know, for success in my music career.

515
00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:32,720
The messenger guy.

516
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:33,720
Yeah, yup, yup.

517
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,960
And, you know, the great, the great magician, Hermes Tristmagistus.

518
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:37,960
Tristmagistus?

519
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:38,960
Yes.

520
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:39,960
Yup.

521
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,520
The, the trickster of the crossroads and who's, you know, so interested also in like education

522
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:48,520
and in music, you know, who also mentored orpheus and things like that.

523
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:54,280
And I was saying on, on another episode we taped the season that I haven't yet seen the

524
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,160
fruits, fruits, you know, of, of what I am told, you know, has been to come.

525
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,960
But I have had so many things happen along this wild journey.

526
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:08,040
And, and I really, you know, part of my everyday spiritual practice is also to communicate

527
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,280
with these intelligences, these spirits.

528
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:14,480
They're not necessarily possessing me in that moment or even speaking through me, but

529
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,960
I'm using my divinatory tools to, and the answers that I get are very different from things

530
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,840
that I would think in my own head most of the time, which is how, you know, you can tell

531
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:24,840
it.

532
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:30,280
So, so yeah, anytime, anytime that you feel like experiencing more of that, you know, we

533
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:32,880
both live in LA, my home is always open to you.

534
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:33,880
Oh, please.

535
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:34,880
Yeah.

536
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:35,880
I'd be very excited to do that.

537
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:36,880
Yeah.

538
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:37,880
Anytime.

539
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:43,880
I mean, writing a book sometimes, what this really is, is the inspiration, the word

540
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,040
inspiration comes from a spirit inhabiting you.

541
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:53,360
And when you feel like that in any kind of creative venture, there is a moment where you feel

542
00:36:53,360 --> 00:37:00,600
like something from the outside is coming inside of you, like you've become possessed.

543
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:05,720
And the writing is obviously better when that happens or the musico or whatever it is.

544
00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:12,360
And so artists are very familiar with this sensation of something from the outside coming

545
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,640
to their bodies and bringing them ideas that they hadn't even thought of.

546
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,280
Now, what is that?

547
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,800
Is it some mystical occult thing?

548
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,060
I personally think it's just life itself, the energy of life itself, that you're suddenly

549
00:37:26,060 --> 00:37:28,600
open to and it's coming inside of you.

550
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:34,360
And in mastery, I describe how when you reach such a certain level of so much work and labor,

551
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,440
these kinds of experiences happen all of the time.

552
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,640
But even in writing, I get these moments of possession quite often.

553
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:42,640
Yeah.

554
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,960
Well, of course, I want to talk about the love sublime, me being me.

555
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:48,060
Yes, okay.

556
00:37:48,060 --> 00:37:53,360
And I'll share just a little bit of what you wrote in that summary was that the love sublime

557
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:59,400
is about to escape the prison of the ego and fall deeper and deeper into the world

558
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:05,640
of the beloved, the dissolving of boundaries between two people, the fusion of bodies and

559
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:06,960
souls.

560
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,620
And I would argue that probably a lot of people who read this on the surface would imagine

561
00:38:11,620 --> 00:38:16,520
this as a big departure from the sort of things that you were speaking about in the art of

562
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:17,520
seduction.

563
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:21,860
And as I may be alluded to earlier in the conversation, I actually think they have more

564
00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:25,980
in common, at least in my experience than they might appear on the surface.

565
00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:26,980
But what do you think?

566
00:38:26,980 --> 00:38:32,620
Does that feel like a very different approach from your earlier work in AOS or do you feel

567
00:38:32,620 --> 00:38:33,620
like it's similar?

568
00:38:33,620 --> 00:38:40,340
I mean, in our seduction, there are elements of a kind of a cold seduction where you're

569
00:38:40,340 --> 00:38:46,460
playing a part and it's very theatrical and you're doing certain things to have an effect

570
00:38:46,460 --> 00:38:48,560
upon the other person.

571
00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:53,960
But I make the point in the introduction, the preface to the art of seduction that what

572
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:58,820
you are really doing is you're making the other person fall in love with you, right?

573
00:38:58,820 --> 00:39:04,320
And you're using your knowledge of human psychology to make that person fall deeper and deeper

574
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:10,220
and deeper and deeper to their minds, to the, you literally possess their mind, your

575
00:39:10,220 --> 00:39:12,220
inside their head.

576
00:39:12,220 --> 00:39:16,260
Now there's an element of coldness to that in the book, I understand, but there's also

577
00:39:16,260 --> 00:39:22,020
other stories that kind of sparkle with life and with love and I talk about that.

578
00:39:22,020 --> 00:39:28,540
But this is a little bit different because this isn't about any kind of manipulation.

579
00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:30,980
It's about letting go.

580
00:39:30,980 --> 00:39:37,940
So most people I'm describing in the chapter, particularly nowadays, are afraid of being

581
00:39:37,940 --> 00:39:39,820
hurt, right?

582
00:39:39,820 --> 00:39:44,500
The word vulnerable comes from the Latin word meaning wound.

583
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:50,780
So to be vulnerable is to be open to being wounded and so many of us today are so defensive.

584
00:39:50,780 --> 00:39:53,740
We wear like a suit of armor around us.

585
00:39:53,740 --> 00:39:55,140
We don't want people to hurt us.

586
00:39:55,140 --> 00:39:56,660
We don't want people.

587
00:39:56,660 --> 00:40:00,260
We live inside these castles with our own thoughts, our own ideas.

588
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:05,340
We're so close to things and so when it comes to relationships with the other person,

589
00:40:05,340 --> 00:40:12,180
for a moment we might fall for them, we might let go some of it, but then we, it frightens

590
00:40:12,180 --> 00:40:13,180
us.

591
00:40:13,180 --> 00:40:17,500
We step back and we don't want to let go any further and then all these kind of power

592
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:22,020
struggles in Sioux where we think that maybe the other person doesn't respect us enough

593
00:40:22,020 --> 00:40:23,620
and da da da da.

594
00:40:23,620 --> 00:40:28,980
But if you like, open yourself up to the other person and you give of your spirit, then

595
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:31,660
it's going to have a simple effect on them.

596
00:40:31,660 --> 00:40:37,680
The metaphor I have is if you just keep falling and falling and falling and falling and

597
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:43,540
don't stop it as we usually do at some point we put the brakes on it, you will reach this

598
00:40:43,540 --> 00:40:50,740
what I call sublime love or love sublime and it's a sense of kind of two people becoming

599
00:40:50,740 --> 00:40:52,060
one.

600
00:40:52,060 --> 00:40:59,780
There's sort of a strange eariness where you, it's both physical and and and and and psychological

601
00:40:59,780 --> 00:41:04,620
where you feel boundaries have been transcended, you're outside your ego, you're not thinking

602
00:41:04,620 --> 00:41:10,460
always about yourself and your interest and your defensiveness and your mind comes almost

603
00:41:10,460 --> 00:41:12,500
possessed by the other person.

604
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:14,100
Now there are limits to that.

605
00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:18,100
Obviously you can't become completely the other person.

606
00:41:18,100 --> 00:41:19,860
I'm not saying that.

607
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:26,900
But if you let go of these defenses, more of that other world will come inside of you and

608
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:33,020
the story I tell in there is probably of one of the most famous, most infamous love stories

609
00:41:33,020 --> 00:41:36,860
in Western history that of Abelard and Eloise.

610
00:41:36,860 --> 00:41:44,380
It was in the 12th century and it's a magnificent story of a love affair between an older man and

611
00:41:44,380 --> 00:41:48,420
a younger woman, both of whom are absolutely brilliant philosophers.

612
00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:56,860
The woman is considered one of the greatest thinkers of her time and they have this intense

613
00:41:56,860 --> 00:42:03,540
romance over a course of several months or years and they have this experience.

614
00:42:03,540 --> 00:42:08,900
And what's so exciting about it is we have their letters, which is why their story is so

615
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:13,220
famous and we can see and we can feel how this happened.

616
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:19,700
And then of course he's discovered, he's the tutor, Peter Abelard is the tutor of Eloise,

617
00:42:19,700 --> 00:42:25,980
the uncle of Eloise discovers this and he's so outraged that he has Abelard castrated.

618
00:42:25,980 --> 00:42:33,260
Yes and then the story becomes something else and finally but she is so in love with him

619
00:42:33,260 --> 00:42:38,980
that she won't let it stop and it goes into this other kind of spiritual realm where

620
00:42:38,980 --> 00:42:40,580
they're still connected.

621
00:42:40,580 --> 00:42:46,020
But it's something very real because you can suite it in their letters, you can sense that

622
00:42:46,020 --> 00:42:48,260
they reached a different level there.

623
00:42:48,260 --> 00:42:54,140
And so I'm just trying to indicate because I find in my interactions with younger people

624
00:42:54,140 --> 00:43:00,300
often come to me for advice that there is a greater degree of defensiveness and then the

625
00:43:00,300 --> 00:43:06,340
whole notion of love and dating in sex in our world has become the marketplace.

626
00:43:06,340 --> 00:43:14,780
Yeah, well, it's about swiping and finding the perfect product like you're looking for

627
00:43:14,780 --> 00:43:17,460
deodorant or something.

628
00:43:17,460 --> 00:43:25,980
And it's not on this level at all and so unless love and sex and all that is just a physical

629
00:43:25,980 --> 00:43:31,020
thing and it can't be virtual, it can't be part of the marketplace.

630
00:43:31,020 --> 00:43:36,620
It has to have the human element and it has to be, you have to become vulnerable.

631
00:43:36,620 --> 00:43:42,740
And if you get hurt, if the other person screws you around and leaves you, well, okay, you deal

632
00:43:42,740 --> 00:43:46,500
with that pain and then you kind of, you own it and you go, well, that was great.

633
00:43:46,500 --> 00:43:49,220
I feel alive because pain means you're alive.

634
00:43:49,220 --> 00:43:54,420
It's better to feel pain than to be wrapped in this cocoon that you live in where you don't

635
00:43:54,420 --> 00:43:56,100
want anything to hurt you.

636
00:43:56,100 --> 00:44:01,660
And now you know that you want this experience and you're ready for the next one as opposed

637
00:44:01,660 --> 00:44:05,420
to never going to have that happen to be ever again, you know.

638
00:44:05,420 --> 00:44:10,060
So it's a chapter about basically letting go.

639
00:44:10,060 --> 00:44:17,300
But you just said is almost exactly what I wrote in my own book on seduction back in the day,

640
00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:19,660
way back in the day, called the new rules of attraction.

641
00:44:19,660 --> 00:44:24,860
I have an epilogue in there that basically says, you know, to live a lifestyle of seduction

642
00:44:24,860 --> 00:44:30,380
is an active bravery because you're constantly putting yourself out there and you may get rejected.

643
00:44:30,380 --> 00:44:36,420
But you understand that it is worth living this life of extraordinary adventure.

644
00:44:36,420 --> 00:44:42,500
And also, you know, I wonder if the perspective that I have of the art of seduction, how meaningful

645
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:47,780
it was to me, I know holding up my absolutely well-worn copy here, for me, I recognize that

646
00:44:47,780 --> 00:44:50,260
perhaps my viewpoint was rather unique.

647
00:44:50,260 --> 00:44:54,740
And I think this is also like where my autism shows a little bit, but I always believed that

648
00:44:54,740 --> 00:44:59,660
seduction was inherently an active generosity because at its core, it is thinking about what

649
00:44:59,660 --> 00:45:01,380
the other person wants.

650
00:45:01,380 --> 00:45:06,380
What I have discovered is that my love language in toward another person is curiosity.

651
00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:12,260
If I love you, if I feel limerence for you and I want to explore whether there is going

652
00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:16,620
to be love even beyond that, I immediately go into this mode of like, I want to know everything

653
00:45:16,620 --> 00:45:17,620
about you.

654
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:18,620
I want to know what makes you tick.

655
00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:19,620
I want to know how you take your coffee.

656
00:45:19,620 --> 00:45:20,620
I want to know what meals you like.

657
00:45:20,620 --> 00:45:22,180
I want to know all these things.

658
00:45:22,180 --> 00:45:28,320
And so the art of seduction in a way gave me, you know, again, as a young undiagnosed

659
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:34,460
autistic femme, it gave me, you know, quite literally a playbook to translate these things

660
00:45:34,460 --> 00:45:40,220
into action steps in order to be able to create something extraordinary and meaningful for

661
00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:45,140
another person that would also maybe bring them to the level of sublime where I got it wrong

662
00:45:45,140 --> 00:45:51,300
was I was doing this in some way because I felt like I needed to be more than perhaps

663
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:55,140
what I was already like there was some sort of low self worth that was in there, which

664
00:45:55,140 --> 00:45:59,500
again, growing up undiagnosed autistic femme, you're going to get a lot of sort of pushback

665
00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:02,940
from people from the world saying, you know, you don't understand the way things are.

666
00:46:02,940 --> 00:46:06,260
You miss social cues and you think, oh, maybe it's me, maybe I'm the problem and things

667
00:46:06,260 --> 00:46:07,260
like that.

668
00:46:07,260 --> 00:46:11,860
So my repotterning has absolutely involved a re-embracing of my own value and my own worth

669
00:46:11,860 --> 00:46:14,860
and my own authentic self expression.

670
00:46:14,860 --> 00:46:20,060
But there's so many parts of this that still really resonate with me so deeply because

671
00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:25,980
it's like at the end of the day, part of falling that deeply with another person is taking

672
00:46:25,980 --> 00:46:31,580
that risk and saying, let's go explore the world and do all these remarkable amazing things

673
00:46:31,580 --> 00:46:32,580
together.

674
00:46:32,580 --> 00:46:37,140
Yeah, that part of manipulation, that part of that coldness, I understand where people

675
00:46:37,140 --> 00:46:43,900
feel that way, but I know for me, it always felt like it was actually a gesture of warmth

676
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:49,500
where I was saying like, I'm trying to make myself be even better than I am, which maybe

677
00:46:49,500 --> 00:46:52,100
I was doing that in a maladaptive way.

678
00:46:52,100 --> 00:46:56,060
But the intention, I think, was really pure saying like, I'm trying to make myself the

679
00:46:56,060 --> 00:47:01,100
best self that I can be so that I can give to you, my partner, whom I love, the best

680
00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:03,100
version of myself.

681
00:47:03,100 --> 00:47:04,100
Right.

682
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:08,180
Well, just a couple of the things about that chapter that I would like to say is one thing

683
00:47:08,180 --> 00:47:13,100
that you have to have in order to go into this process of falling, falling, falling is

684
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:14,420
there has to be equality.

685
00:47:14,420 --> 00:47:20,540
And that doesn't mean that say it's a man and a woman that you are the same because men

686
00:47:20,540 --> 00:47:22,140
and women are different.

687
00:47:22,140 --> 00:47:28,500
It just means that on the level of power and respect and intelligence, there is no difference

688
00:47:28,500 --> 00:47:33,820
because that sense of inequality is what will cut short that falling process and will bring

689
00:47:33,820 --> 00:47:35,580
in power games.

690
00:47:35,580 --> 00:47:41,100
And so the last point I say is I say at the end of one of the sections that think of the

691
00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:49,220
love sublime as a big kind of f you to our world, to all the cynicism, to all the skepticism,

692
00:47:49,220 --> 00:47:53,180
to all the defensiveness, to all the ugliness that lives in our world.

693
00:47:53,180 --> 00:48:00,020
And I want young people to embrace this chapter as a kind of form of intense rebellion.

694
00:48:00,020 --> 00:48:01,020
Yes.

695
00:48:01,020 --> 00:48:02,020
Right.

696
00:48:02,020 --> 00:48:08,380
My relationship with one other person is an act of rebellion against this ugly, disenchanted

697
00:48:08,380 --> 00:48:09,380
world.

698
00:48:09,380 --> 00:48:10,380
You know?

699
00:48:10,380 --> 00:48:17,020
And I have at the end of that section with the story of Aphrodite and this goose because

700
00:48:17,020 --> 00:48:20,780
she Aphrodite was born of the waves of the sea.

701
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:23,140
So she's an ocean creature.

702
00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:26,300
And this is a seagull, sorry, not a goose.

703
00:48:26,300 --> 00:48:32,080
A seagull comes flying up door and says Aphrodite, you have you have you're not living with

704
00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:33,080
humans anymore.

705
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,900
You've left the human world.

706
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:39,500
She says, well, I got so disgusted with humans because they're not interested in me anymore.

707
00:48:39,500 --> 00:48:40,980
So I'm just leaving them.

708
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:43,340
I can't care about them anymore.

709
00:48:43,340 --> 00:48:48,020
And the seagull says, well, but since you've left, everything has just become so ugly and

710
00:48:48,020 --> 00:48:51,700
people are so only interested in themselves.

711
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:56,820
And please come back and I'm kind of saying at the end, it's kind of the same situation in

712
00:48:56,820 --> 00:49:01,700
our world as what the seagull was telling to Aphrodite and I'm saying, you know, we're trying

713
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:04,420
to invite her back into our world.

714
00:49:04,420 --> 00:49:06,660
So those are my last words on that.

715
00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:10,460
Oh, you are speaking my language with that entirely.

716
00:49:10,460 --> 00:49:15,780
And I've been through processes too, especially in the last few years where I've been judged

717
00:49:15,780 --> 00:49:20,300
and I've even had to maybe leave some friendships behind because there were people who were

718
00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:25,300
in some ways, I don't want to use the word "trigger" just kind of overuse, but we're activated

719
00:49:25,300 --> 00:49:32,180
or we're upset or it brought up fear for them that the generosity I was engaging with in

720
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:36,940
someone that I love to who needed help and who was not in a place where they could reciprocate.

721
00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:38,860
And I was like, I don't care.

722
00:49:38,860 --> 00:49:41,820
I don't care what I'm getting in return for this.

723
00:49:41,820 --> 00:49:46,140
I don't get like this will either this will either pay off in the end or it won't

724
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:49,700
and either way I am making this wager and this is what I'm going to do.

725
00:49:49,700 --> 00:49:54,020
And there were people who, you know, I had to say, I'm sorry if you can't support that's

726
00:49:54,020 --> 00:49:59,980
fine, but I cannot be around you because I cannot have that influencing my commitment,

727
00:49:59,980 --> 00:50:01,060
my dedication to this.

728
00:50:01,060 --> 00:50:06,700
It was my own underworld journey, my own, you know, orpheus going down and rescuing euridacy

729
00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:10,620
kind of thing from the dark underworld coming back from the brink of death.

730
00:50:10,620 --> 00:50:13,980
Yeah, so I'm really excited to read that chapter.

731
00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:16,180
Okay, that's good.

732
00:50:16,180 --> 00:50:21,220
Well, I want to we have maybe time for me to ask about one more of these sublime archetypes

733
00:50:21,220 --> 00:50:25,820
before we bring Tomi on for her final question that she's going to ask you as well.

734
00:50:25,820 --> 00:50:31,780
And I think my next favorite must be and I'm sure you might be able to tell by the surroundings

735
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:38,460
in my background, which is actually my, you know, my living room and not, not a, not a virtual,

736
00:50:38,460 --> 00:50:40,460
you know, I've been there.

737
00:50:40,460 --> 00:50:41,460
I've been there.

738
00:50:41,460 --> 00:50:44,380
You have you have and I have that brilliant picture of you with Edgar Allan Paul and

739
00:50:44,380 --> 00:50:45,380
my cat.

740
00:50:45,380 --> 00:50:47,140
I'm totally going to use the thumbnail.

741
00:50:47,140 --> 00:50:48,140
Where is it?

742
00:50:48,140 --> 00:50:50,980
You know, he hides whenever I'm talking too much.

743
00:50:50,980 --> 00:50:53,460
I think he likes the quiet.

744
00:50:53,460 --> 00:50:56,420
Otherwise I would, I would really is.

745
00:50:56,420 --> 00:50:57,420
Yeah.

746
00:50:57,420 --> 00:51:03,980
But as you can probably guess, but yeah, the audience might not, might not have known by now

747
00:51:03,980 --> 00:51:08,180
that this is actually this is actually I'm actually phoning in from, from where I, where

748
00:51:08,180 --> 00:51:11,960
I say I am, but you might, you might be able to guess that my next favorite chapter

749
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,220
naturally would be the aesthetic sublime.

750
00:51:15,220 --> 00:51:19,740
There's so much that I talk about in the other course that I teach called myths and magic

751
00:51:19,740 --> 00:51:24,340
about creating our environments in order to shift our own reality so that they reflect

752
00:51:24,340 --> 00:51:26,180
the stories that we want to live.

753
00:51:26,180 --> 00:51:30,660
You know, and for me, I'm someone who is, you know, again, a student of the occult and

754
00:51:30,660 --> 00:51:35,820
a lover of beautiful things and a, you know, and a sort of romantic goth, perhaps in a way,

755
00:51:35,820 --> 00:51:37,460
at least a goth light.

756
00:51:37,460 --> 00:51:41,540
And so you can see that like my home that I live in reflects this to me.

757
00:51:41,540 --> 00:51:46,900
It's also something that I think autistic people in particular are sensitive to because of,

758
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:50,020
I don't have a ton of time to get into this, but you know, like the default mode network

759
00:51:50,020 --> 00:51:52,380
like is more overactive in our brains.

760
00:51:52,380 --> 00:51:55,340
And so we are taking in more sensory information around us.

761
00:51:55,340 --> 00:52:00,140
So having things that are identity affirming and things that we love around us is really,

762
00:52:00,140 --> 00:52:01,140
really helpful.

763
00:52:01,140 --> 00:52:05,020
It's the same reason I like going to Disneyland, you know, which again, we're both in L.A.

764
00:52:05,020 --> 00:52:09,300
So if you ever want a Disney day, we're totally, totally down for that too.

765
00:52:09,300 --> 00:52:13,300
And being surrounded by these extraordinary kind of, you know, things that get us out of the

766
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:17,220
normal mundane, you know, shopping centers and highways and things like that.

767
00:52:17,220 --> 00:52:22,100
So yeah, share with me some of your, your favorite things about the aesthetics of blind.

768
00:52:22,100 --> 00:52:28,540
Well, the aesthetics of blind, the title of it is called Disorder the Senses, which is a

769
00:52:28,540 --> 00:52:32,180
phrase that comes from the poet Arthur Rabbo.

770
00:52:32,180 --> 00:52:38,220
And he was basically saying that the goal of poetry is to disorder the senses.

771
00:52:38,220 --> 00:52:45,020
And what I like about that idea is that, you know, we tend, we were too intellectual, we're

772
00:52:45,020 --> 00:52:50,220
too left brain dominated in our worlds, right?

773
00:52:50,220 --> 00:52:58,860
And even our films and our books, they're so analytical, they're so language bound.

774
00:52:58,860 --> 00:53:05,780
And to me, the great works of art kind of scramble our senses and have that effect, like we

775
00:53:05,780 --> 00:53:10,620
talked about the neurological sublime, the neuro sublime, have the effect of making us see

776
00:53:10,620 --> 00:53:11,940
the world differently.

777
00:53:11,940 --> 00:53:13,860
It shakes us up, right?

778
00:53:13,860 --> 00:53:20,700
So that's kind of the, the things that I'm interested in because we tend to think that,

779
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:29,340
so I explain that when everything in our environment is familiar and we see it and everything is,

780
00:53:29,340 --> 00:53:31,340
is something that we've seen before.

781
00:53:31,340 --> 00:53:34,340
We don't pay attention anymore to our world, right?

782
00:53:34,340 --> 00:53:36,540
We don't pay attention to what's around us.

783
00:53:36,540 --> 00:53:42,060
We don't realize that the mundane, the everyday things around us, the plants, the trees, the

784
00:53:42,060 --> 00:53:45,340
man-made objects are weird, they're strange.

785
00:53:45,340 --> 00:53:51,460
If you look at them, they're actually like strange creatures, the things in your household,

786
00:53:51,460 --> 00:53:54,940
just a simple cup, a bottle of shampoo.

787
00:53:54,940 --> 00:53:58,260
It's a weird thing that maybe even is alive in some way.

788
00:53:58,260 --> 00:54:00,420
I'm kind of animistic that way.

789
00:54:00,420 --> 00:54:04,940
So your world is much stranger than you think, right?

790
00:54:04,940 --> 00:54:08,540
You banalize this very weird world that we live in.

791
00:54:08,540 --> 00:54:14,940
So the aesthetic sublime is something that shakes you up and makes you aware that time is

792
00:54:14,940 --> 00:54:18,540
in what you think it is, spaces in what you think it is.

793
00:54:18,540 --> 00:54:26,660
And so the story I have that illustrates is of one of my favorite composers of music is

794
00:54:26,660 --> 00:54:29,140
a man named Alexander Screabin.

795
00:54:29,140 --> 00:54:33,900
He was very much into mysticism and the occult.

796
00:54:33,900 --> 00:54:40,220
And he wanted to create a music that would take you into outer space, that would take you

797
00:54:40,220 --> 00:54:45,020
into a whole different landscape of sound, but he couldn't find it.

798
00:54:45,020 --> 00:54:46,020
He's frustrated.

799
00:54:46,020 --> 00:54:50,820
He tried over and over and over and over in an experiment, an experiment, an experiment.

800
00:54:50,820 --> 00:54:56,260
And suddenly this one piece came to him and we were talking about possession that he wrote

801
00:54:56,260 --> 00:54:59,540
as if somebody other spirit wasn't happening him.

802
00:54:59,540 --> 00:55:04,180
And he composed it within a few days and then he played it for people and they go, that is

803
00:55:04,180 --> 00:55:07,340
the strangest thing I have ever heard.

804
00:55:07,340 --> 00:55:10,540
I don't know what that was, but it wasn't bad.

805
00:55:10,540 --> 00:55:12,660
It was fascinating, right?

806
00:55:12,660 --> 00:55:16,340
And then he went on, he wrote this symphony.

807
00:55:16,340 --> 00:55:20,100
And I don't know if you don't like classical music, I understand, but I beg you to listen

808
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:21,100
to it.

809
00:55:21,100 --> 00:55:24,500
It's called the poem of ecstasy, right?

810
00:55:24,500 --> 00:55:31,140
And he originally called it the poem, the orgyastic poem because it is like an orgasm.

811
00:55:31,140 --> 00:55:33,740
It is a musical orgasm.

812
00:55:33,740 --> 00:55:37,220
And it just sort of, it builds to a climax and then it stops.

813
00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:39,740
And it builds to a climax and it stops.

814
00:55:39,740 --> 00:55:44,220
It does this like 20 times until in the end it just crashes.

815
00:55:44,220 --> 00:55:46,500
This explosion of sound.

816
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:53,380
So it's like when you listen to his music, you are literally entering another world.

817
00:55:53,380 --> 00:56:00,140
And the first man who ever orbited the Earth planet Earth was a Soviet cosmonaut and they

818
00:56:00,140 --> 00:56:04,180
asked him what music he wanted to play as he was orbiting the planet.

819
00:56:04,180 --> 00:56:11,660
He chose Screabins, Poe Maffire because it is literally like the music of outer space.

820
00:56:11,660 --> 00:56:17,460
So I chose that because he literally disrupts how we normally listen to music.

821
00:56:17,460 --> 00:56:20,180
He creates rhythms that you've never heard before.

822
00:56:20,180 --> 00:56:21,660
It's always starting and stopping.

823
00:56:21,660 --> 00:56:28,340
It's like a nervousness that is kind of irritating but fascinating at the same time.

824
00:56:28,340 --> 00:56:33,100
And then he wrote, but he never got finished because he died at the age of 43.

825
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:39,380
He wrote this piece that he wanted to create the ultimate Ellucinian mystery, ultimate ritual,

826
00:56:39,380 --> 00:56:47,740
ancient ritual in India called the Mysterium where he would combine music and image and colors

827
00:56:47,740 --> 00:56:55,180
and sense and everything and create this kind of overwhelming experience for people that

828
00:56:55,180 --> 00:56:59,220
would make them transcend being human beings.

829
00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:02,300
I mean he was a little bit insane.

830
00:57:02,300 --> 00:57:03,620
That's putting it mildly.

831
00:57:03,620 --> 00:57:06,380
But it never got completed because he died.

832
00:57:06,380 --> 00:57:08,340
Other people have completed it form.

833
00:57:08,340 --> 00:57:15,460
Anyway I'm fascinated by people who do that who transcend the usual boundaries in writing

834
00:57:15,460 --> 00:57:20,380
or in poetry or in art or in music.

835
00:57:20,380 --> 00:57:26,940
So that's sort of the idea about there is scrambling the senses because the world has become too

836
00:57:26,940 --> 00:57:32,420
familiar to you and art that does that has a very sublime effect.

837
00:57:32,420 --> 00:57:37,380
You know it also reminds me of one of my favorite parts of the Art of Seduction is in the

838
00:57:37,380 --> 00:57:40,860
very ending of the book about festival time and place.

839
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:41,860
Oh yeah.

840
00:57:41,860 --> 00:57:43,660
And you talk also about Shangri-la.

841
00:57:43,660 --> 00:57:44,980
Not Shangri-la.

842
00:57:44,980 --> 00:57:47,420
It's the floating world.

843
00:57:47,420 --> 00:57:48,420
Yeah.

844
00:57:48,420 --> 00:57:50,300
Yeah exactly.

845
00:57:50,300 --> 00:57:51,300
Yeah.

846
00:57:51,300 --> 00:57:57,820
Seductive time and place and that was so inspiring to me because it was like let's get people

847
00:57:57,820 --> 00:57:59,060
out of the ordinary.

848
00:57:59,060 --> 00:58:04,780
And maybe I might be too autistic and I might be too much into like order and neatness to

849
00:58:04,780 --> 00:58:06,740
have my senses jarred too much.

850
00:58:06,740 --> 00:58:12,460
But the idea of getting out of the ordinary the mundane and going to these places and I

851
00:58:12,460 --> 00:58:18,900
remember I had a crush on a guy when I was in my 20s just this beautiful tall like internationally

852
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:21,380
traveled photographer like such a crush on him.

853
00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:26,900
I remember asking him out somewhere sometime and gosh where I think I believe where I took

854
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:32,020
him was like a Dadavantese show where they had you know all of these you know remarkable

855
00:58:32,020 --> 00:58:35,460
thing and that we are somewhere else gosh you know where I was living in New York City

856
00:58:35,460 --> 00:58:36,460
at the time.

857
00:58:36,460 --> 00:58:41,020
But this sort of like exclusive very fancy or less kind of a thing and then there was

858
00:58:41,020 --> 00:58:42,020
like an after party.

859
00:58:42,020 --> 00:58:47,700
I can't remember where it was but he turned to me at one point and quite literally he said

860
00:58:47,700 --> 00:58:52,780
do you just go to like all these opulent events all the time and I was like Robert Greene

861
00:58:52,780 --> 00:58:55,580
would be so proud of me right now.

862
00:58:55,580 --> 00:58:56,580
Yeah.

863
00:58:56,580 --> 00:58:57,580
You told him that?

864
00:58:57,580 --> 00:58:59,900
No, I thought it in my head.

865
00:58:59,900 --> 00:59:03,220
So but here we are many years later and I get to share that with you.

866
00:59:03,220 --> 00:59:05,260
I would be and I am proud of you.

867
00:59:05,260 --> 00:59:06,540
That means the world to me.

868
00:59:06,540 --> 00:59:09,940
Well, that's a brilliant note for me to wrap up my questions on.

869
00:59:09,940 --> 00:59:14,020
I'll bring on Tomi to ask her question of you for the end of our episode.

870
00:59:14,020 --> 00:59:15,020
Hi Tomi.

871
00:59:15,020 --> 00:59:16,020
Hello.

872
00:59:16,020 --> 00:59:17,380
Yeah, thank you, Arden.

873
00:59:17,380 --> 00:59:22,580
And I'm glad you ended that on a note of transcending boundaries because I do have a rather

874
00:59:22,580 --> 00:59:25,740
serious question on that note.

875
00:59:25,740 --> 00:59:31,180
So Robert, your work has been recommended to me by friends and mentors of mine.

876
00:59:31,180 --> 00:59:32,820
People I really respect.

877
00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:37,740
From what I've read so far, I've really enjoyed what you've had to say on the power of

878
00:59:37,740 --> 00:59:42,700
androgyny and embracing traits of the opposite sex.

879
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:49,260
With that said, I've also heard your work praised by some of the most outspoken anti-trans voices

880
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:52,060
in podcasting spaces.

881
00:59:52,060 --> 00:59:55,580
So the first one that comes to mind would be Jordan Peterson.

882
00:59:55,580 --> 00:59:56,980
Oh, yeah, yeah.

883
00:59:56,980 --> 00:59:57,980
Yeah.

884
00:59:57,980 --> 00:59:58,980
And I think it's probably.

885
00:59:58,980 --> 01:00:02,180
He doesn't actually like my work.

886
01:00:02,180 --> 01:00:07,380
I've been on his podcast once and he was actually very kind of antagonistic.

887
01:00:07,380 --> 01:00:10,820
Tomi's the most antagonistic podcast I've ever had to deal with.

888
01:00:10,820 --> 01:00:15,300
I came across it, but I couldn't suffer listening to Jordan Peterson for an hour.

889
01:00:15,300 --> 01:00:16,300
Yeah, I know.

890
01:00:16,300 --> 01:00:18,500
So I didn't actually have the episode.

891
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:23,620
But I know there's a few others in these spaces for sure that like come across or I've seen

892
01:00:23,620 --> 01:00:25,100
some praise.

893
01:00:25,100 --> 01:00:27,340
And I'd love for us to call that out.

894
01:00:27,340 --> 01:00:32,340
Or I'd like to hear your thoughts on that disconnect among those that can read your books

895
01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:39,500
that encourage gender fluidity who at the same time, back at the idea of showing basic human

896
01:00:39,500 --> 01:00:41,940
decency to the trans community.

897
01:00:41,940 --> 01:00:46,740
Well, the gender fluidity is a part of the art of seduction.

898
01:00:46,740 --> 01:00:54,020
I have one of the icons of seduction is the dandy figure who is a man who combines female

899
01:00:54,020 --> 01:00:59,220
and masculine traits and a woman who does the same and how devilishly seductive it is.

900
01:00:59,220 --> 01:01:03,580
And in the laws of human nature, I have a whole chapter on that.

901
01:01:03,580 --> 01:01:09,060
And I try and explain that trying to explode your concept of what it means to be a man or

902
01:01:09,060 --> 01:01:14,740
a woman that we are kind of trapped in our bodies, we're trapped in our genders in some

903
01:01:14,740 --> 01:01:15,740
ways.

904
01:01:15,740 --> 01:01:24,580
And that every man has a very strong feminine side that he either acknowledges or uses creatively

905
01:01:24,580 --> 01:01:30,260
or represses and every woman has a very strong masculine side.

906
01:01:30,260 --> 01:01:35,180
And so to kind of get out of this kind of rigid dichotomy that we all live under, it's

907
01:01:35,180 --> 01:01:36,980
kind of oppressive.

908
01:01:36,980 --> 01:01:42,500
And that for a man to touch his female side opens up a whole world to him, it opens up a

909
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:44,260
whole world of creativity.

910
01:01:44,260 --> 01:01:47,220
And you'll call this the anima and the animus.

911
01:01:47,220 --> 01:01:52,700
A man possesses an anima which is the female figure inside of him, heavily influenced

912
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:58,740
by the mother, the animus is what a woman has which is heavily influenced by the father.

913
01:01:58,740 --> 01:02:05,180
And but it's also genetically, we men have estrogen, women have testosterone, we combine

914
01:02:05,180 --> 01:02:07,780
elements of the two genders within all of us.

915
01:02:07,780 --> 01:02:12,100
And so I just wanted to kind of open people's minds up to that fluidity.

916
01:02:12,100 --> 01:02:17,340
And I had that in there because it's a law of human nature that we do possess these

917
01:02:17,340 --> 01:02:21,620
traits of each gender within us.

918
01:02:21,620 --> 01:02:28,100
And so I don't know, I don't think I have anything specifically about that in a sublime book.

919
01:02:28,100 --> 01:02:34,780
I do talk about the poet Safo who is the first, what the word lesbian literally comes from

920
01:02:34,780 --> 01:02:42,020
her life because she was born on the island of Lesbos and how her attraction to other women

921
01:02:42,020 --> 01:02:44,580
have that in the love sublime chapter.

922
01:02:44,580 --> 01:02:51,220
But I mean, I personally feel that it's something that the way people become phobic about

923
01:02:51,220 --> 01:02:55,720
this is because they have to repress that other side of the other gender inside of their

924
01:02:55,720 --> 01:02:56,920
afraid of it.

925
01:02:56,920 --> 01:03:02,260
And it's what makes people afraid of black people, it makes a man afraid of women, it

926
01:03:02,260 --> 01:03:04,660
makes people afraid of indigenous people.

927
01:03:04,660 --> 01:03:09,380
It's the other, the stranger that's within us all that we can't come to terms with and

928
01:03:09,380 --> 01:03:11,900
we'd rather just repress or hate.

929
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:15,940
And by what people hate, you can kind of, they reveal something about themselves, they

930
01:03:15,940 --> 01:03:19,100
reveal about what they're repressing and what they're afraid of.

931
01:03:19,100 --> 01:03:23,900
And so I don't know if I'm answering your question, but that's sort of how I frame it, that

932
01:03:23,900 --> 01:03:28,940
kind of phobic reaction is actually telling more about the person themselves.

933
01:03:28,940 --> 01:03:31,180
Does that make sense in my answering question?

934
01:03:31,180 --> 01:03:32,180
Yeah.

935
01:03:32,180 --> 01:03:33,380
No, that absolutely makes sense.

936
01:03:33,380 --> 01:03:37,760
And there is a certain commonality with the way I see these transphobic people and the

937
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:42,740
way they talk about the opposite sex and sometimes even their romantic partners when they

938
01:03:42,740 --> 01:03:47,460
give a glimpse of that world that that totally checks out that there's a certain structure

939
01:03:47,460 --> 01:03:49,460
and or fear towards there.

940
01:03:49,460 --> 01:03:50,460
Well, I mean, the other.

941
01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:56,500
Part of the thing that's always motivated me is an interest in how other people think and

942
01:03:56,500 --> 01:03:58,220
to get sort of outside of myself.

943
01:03:58,220 --> 01:04:05,380
So part of that is interest in how women think and how people on the spectrum think and

944
01:04:05,380 --> 01:04:11,540
how every different possible variety of human consciousness, the diversity of it all.

945
01:04:11,540 --> 01:04:18,500
And so people who have who are more strongly exhibiting the two sides of the gender equation

946
01:04:18,500 --> 01:04:22,900
kind of fascinating me on the level of how they think.

947
01:04:22,900 --> 01:04:29,820
And I've always had this idea that it's very, you feel this very strongly in music where

948
01:04:29,820 --> 01:04:35,180
the male and the female sides are actually much more overt and musicians tend to have much

949
01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:38,540
more of this kind of fluidity.

950
01:04:38,540 --> 01:04:44,380
Because music goes to the right, the left brain in a way that language doesn't.

951
01:04:44,380 --> 01:04:49,340
And so I'm kind of fascinated by people who bring that into their creative world and kind

952
01:04:49,340 --> 01:04:53,540
of open this different way, this more fluid way of thinking.

953
01:04:53,540 --> 01:04:55,300
I love that about music, by the way.

954
01:04:55,300 --> 01:05:00,460
I've never thought of it as that, you know, uniting both halves of the brain way, but that

955
01:05:00,460 --> 01:05:01,460
makes so much sense.

956
01:05:01,460 --> 01:05:05,060
And I know that I feel that way personally as a musician.

957
01:05:05,060 --> 01:05:08,380
And I also feel that way about, you know, a lot of the musicians that I end up being

958
01:05:08,380 --> 01:05:10,380
attracted to also have that.

959
01:05:10,380 --> 01:05:15,860
And, you know, I look for that sort of complimentary person who can meet both the feminine and masculine

960
01:05:15,860 --> 01:05:17,860
and me as that kind of yin yang.

961
01:05:17,860 --> 01:05:19,860
So it's really cool to think about that.

962
01:05:19,860 --> 01:05:21,460
Yeah, yeah, yeah, did I answer you?

963
01:05:21,460 --> 01:05:22,940
Yeah, I think so.

964
01:05:22,940 --> 01:05:24,940
I appreciate that.

965
01:05:24,940 --> 01:05:28,100
I think that gives me what I need to know.

966
01:05:28,100 --> 01:05:30,060
So thank you for answering that.

967
01:05:30,060 --> 01:05:32,980
It started to take us to such a serious place in their culture.

968
01:05:32,980 --> 01:05:33,980
That's all right.

969
01:05:33,980 --> 01:05:34,980
That's all right.

970
01:05:34,980 --> 01:05:38,820
And there's some part of the sublime book that I made.

971
01:05:38,820 --> 01:05:43,500
Talk about this, but I can't remember which puts chapters in, so excuse me on that.

972
01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:45,100
Yeah, I love what you bring about.

973
01:05:45,100 --> 01:05:46,100
The antibiotics.

974
01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:50,380
I know for everyone watching today, by the way, you guys.

975
01:05:50,380 --> 01:05:53,540
Robert has done this interview when he was feeling under the weather.

976
01:05:53,540 --> 01:05:57,500
And I just want to also thank you, Robert, for showing up even when you're not.

977
01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:01,620
And I think the conversation we had, I know I mentioned this before we started recording,

978
01:06:01,620 --> 01:06:04,380
but it reminds me of what you're talking about in the book where you talk about the

979
01:06:04,380 --> 01:06:09,460
second self that there is the social constructed self that we present to people.

980
01:06:09,460 --> 01:06:11,460
And then there's that more wild and barrel self.

981
01:06:11,460 --> 01:06:15,620
And I often think that sometimes when I'm not feeling well, my social constructed self

982
01:06:15,620 --> 01:06:16,620
goes out the window.

983
01:06:16,620 --> 01:06:22,020
So I maybe hope that maybe we've gotten actually a more raw and unfiltered version of you today.

984
01:06:22,020 --> 01:06:30,460
But this was just just wait, just wait for the 10 more minutes and you'd see even more.

985
01:06:30,460 --> 01:06:33,940
Well, it's too bad in that case that it's time for us to wrap up.

986
01:06:33,940 --> 01:06:38,820
But I'm so grateful for you coming on and having this conversation with me today.

987
01:06:38,820 --> 01:06:41,140
And again, you know what a great big fan I am.

988
01:06:41,140 --> 01:06:42,660
I'm here work quite often.

989
01:06:42,660 --> 01:06:45,660
You can't hide it.

990
01:06:45,660 --> 01:06:46,660
Not even a little bit.

991
01:06:46,660 --> 01:06:48,460
Nor would I ever want to.

992
01:06:48,460 --> 01:06:49,460
So I will simply encourage.

993
01:06:49,460 --> 01:06:50,460
I'm sorry, go ahead.

994
01:06:50,460 --> 01:06:52,780
I mean, you can't hide it when you see that cover.

995
01:06:52,780 --> 01:06:53,780
Exactly.

996
01:06:53,780 --> 01:06:58,220
And I will encourage everyone out there.

997
01:06:58,220 --> 01:07:02,100
If you haven't read Robert's books, they're just so brilliant.

998
01:07:02,100 --> 01:07:03,580
They're so fun to read.

999
01:07:03,580 --> 01:07:08,180
I encourage you to check out the 48 laws of power, check out the art of seduction.

1000
01:07:08,180 --> 01:07:12,820
And if you have read Robert's books in the past and maybe even if you think that you have

1001
01:07:12,820 --> 01:07:18,380
an idea or a conception of the kind of things that Robert writes about, I know I'm so excited

1002
01:07:18,380 --> 01:07:19,380
for it.

1003
01:07:19,380 --> 01:07:20,380
The law of sublime to come out.

1004
01:07:20,380 --> 01:07:24,620
And I know just already from the summaries that I've read a bit so far that it's going

1005
01:07:24,620 --> 01:07:30,140
to have that different approach, that greater wider, expansive, more spiritual perspective.

1006
01:07:30,140 --> 01:07:36,700
So I would encourage you to challenge your existing preconceptions of Robert's writing and also

1007
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:38,900
check out the law of the sublime.

1008
01:07:38,900 --> 01:07:41,100
Robert, thank you so much for joining us today.

1009
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:43,100
It has been such a pleasure and an honor.

1010
01:07:43,100 --> 01:07:44,100
You're very welcome.

1011
01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:45,100
You're very welcome.

1012
01:07:45,100 --> 01:07:47,260
The book will be out in November, just a case.

1013
01:07:47,260 --> 01:07:48,500
Just a case people want to know.

1014
01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:49,500
Oh, great.

1015
01:07:49,500 --> 01:07:51,740
Well, I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for it for sure.

1016
01:07:51,740 --> 01:07:52,740
First day, it's in stores.

1017
01:07:52,740 --> 01:07:55,020
I'm going to be lined up outside Barnes and Noble.

1018
01:07:55,020 --> 01:07:56,020
Okay.

1019
01:07:56,020 --> 01:07:58,420
Well, you can pre-order it too on Amazon, but okay.

1020
01:07:58,420 --> 01:07:59,420
Excellent.

1021
01:07:59,420 --> 01:08:01,260
Thank you again.

1022
01:08:01,260 --> 01:08:03,500
And thank you, everyone, who tuned in today.

1023
01:08:03,500 --> 01:08:06,060
Thank you for checking out the Re-Patterning podcast.

1024
01:08:06,060 --> 01:08:07,620
You know where you can find us.

1025
01:08:07,620 --> 01:08:13,580
You can find more details about the Re-Patterning project and also myths and magic at the Re-Patterning

1026
01:08:13,580 --> 01:08:14,660
project.com.

1027
01:08:14,660 --> 01:08:19,900
You can support us on Patreon at patreon.com/therepatterningpodcast.

1028
01:08:19,900 --> 01:08:25,700
And we hope that you tune in and keep listening to the next exciting conversations that we will

1029
01:08:25,700 --> 01:08:31,180
be generously and seductively curating for you and your listening entertainment.

1030
01:08:31,180 --> 01:08:34,100
Thank you all, and we'll see you next time.

1031
01:08:34,100 --> 01:08:36,580
Thank you for listening to the Re-Patterning podcast.

1032
01:08:36,580 --> 01:08:40,660
If you're curious about the Re-Patterning project, the eight-week course in mental mastery and

1033
01:08:40,660 --> 01:08:45,540
creative freedom that inspires these conversations, you can check out more details at the Re-Patterning

1034
01:08:45,540 --> 01:08:46,980
project.com.

1035
01:08:46,980 --> 01:08:51,100
We run a cohort twice a year, or you can download the self-study version of the course and

1036
01:08:51,100 --> 01:08:52,820
get started today.

1037
01:08:52,820 --> 01:08:57,560
We also offer a four-week course on narrative, magic, and archetype titled "Mits and Magic,

1038
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,540
Changing Your Life Through Story" also twice a year.

1039
01:09:00,540 --> 01:09:05,060
If you'd like to join our community, the Re-Patterning Parlor, on Discord, you can sign up for

1040
01:09:05,060 --> 01:09:09,580
$5 a month at patreon.com/therepatterningpodcast.

1041
01:09:09,580 --> 01:09:12,860
Thanks to everyone who makes the Re-Patterning podcast possible.

1042
01:09:12,860 --> 01:09:17,540
Firstly, our award-winning producer, Tomi Trembath, of the Keymaster Collective Network

1043
01:09:17,540 --> 01:09:18,780
of Podcasts.

1044
01:09:18,780 --> 01:09:24,100
She also produces Transcending Comics, Vision in the Void, and Giant-sized Violence.

1045
01:09:24,100 --> 01:09:29,540
Thanks also to Animation Studio Mortis and Madriacs, who created the video for our introduction,

1046
01:09:29,540 --> 01:09:33,620
as well as to Andrew Means, who composed and produced our theme music.

1047
01:09:33,620 --> 01:09:37,580
And also thanks to Al Alvarez, who took the photos of yours truly that you see on the cover

1048
01:09:37,580 --> 01:09:40,460
of each episode if you're watching the video version.

1049
01:09:40,460 --> 01:09:44,820
And finally, thanks to you, our listeners, who give meaning to this work.

1050
01:09:44,820 --> 01:09:49,140
Your greatest wishes that whatever you've heard today inspires you to live freely and begin

1051
01:09:49,140 --> 01:09:51,980
creating your reality from the inside out.

1052
01:09:51,980 --> 01:09:53,860
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you again soon.

1053
01:09:53,860 --> 01:09:55,860
(😫ącego chlopo)

1054
01:09:55,860 --> 01:09:59,060
(😫m styl *)