♪ Entertain me, entertain me right now ♪
- Hello and welcome to the Pop Culture Junkie podcast.
My name is Shauna and I am in the same room.
As Olivia, she's in Phoenix again.
- I mean, just for a little bit.
- I know, well a week.
So that's quite nice.
That's great to be back.
- I know, I'm so glad you're here.
- I keep timing all of my visits,
two minutes over a hundred degrees,
so poor judgment on my part.
Like even when I came here in March,
it was like a hundred that weekend.
- That's so true.
It went through this weird time in March
where it was really hot in Arizona.
And then we experienced some spring.
But you just bring the hotness with you.
- Yeah, I'm just so hot.
I'm bringing that.
Your hair is so long and black.
- Thank you.
Yes, I have been blessed by not being blonde anymore.
And my hair is quite long.
- That may be me.
- Keep it.
- I think the biggest picture of me is a blonde
and go, I think I need it again.
- When I first met you, you were like a platinum blonde.
- What do you think is better?
- I like the black hair on you.
I think because of your skin tone,
like it looks works better with you.
And I liked the chocolate brown on you too.
- Well, color was my hair when you met me.
- Black.
- It was black?
- Yeah, I guess it's been black for a minute.
- The bangs have just been getting shorter and shorter.
- That's true.
And now they're a little green.
- Yeah, yeah.
- But it looks amazing.
My shiko queen.
- Thank you.
- I have been getting a lot of shiko comments on my bangs,
which is what I was going for, but I'll allow it.
- I think it was.
- If you listen to our episode of cartoon characters
that have no business being that hot,
shiko is like number one, just by definition.
- Yeah, triangle boobs.
- Yeah. - Great.
- No notes.
- Triangle boobs.
- Yeah, she's got the animated triangle boobs.
- So like a Madonna and so.
- Yeah.
- She got a lower cross triangle boob.
- Okay, I think they're like a rounded triangle.
What is that?
- Are they around a triangle?
Somebody pull up a picture of shiko's breasts right now.
- What is that?
(laughing)
- So what have you been up to in this haunted
hellscape of a land?
- Oh God, working a lot.
I keep just stumbling upon side jobs.
They just keep falling in my life.
- How many do you have now?
- I am helping out with two democratic campaigns
right now in Arizona.
Thank you, thank you.
No, I ticked that back.
One is a Democrat.
One is a bipartisan campaign for protecting
mail-in ballots in Arizona.
- Okay.
- So anybody can vote yes for that.
- Yeah, hopefully.
- Yeah, yeah.
- Oh, boob.
- Yeah, just been working, swimming.
My three cats are just fucking Grimmlins.
- Oh, how update for the people,
how are they getting along?
- Oh, not at all.
- Not at all.
(laughing)
- Not in this one.
- Let's toast, Jenna.
- Oh.
- Tost.
- Okay, Tost is eating.
She's not on her hunger strike anymore.
We took her to the vet and she had to have two teeth removed.
And after that, she's dramatic of her.
- It was super fucking dramatic.
Like really bitch.
- You need your teeth removed because you're upset.
- Told us that when cats get sick or hurt,
the first thing that they'll do is stop eating.
They'll just stop eating.
- Okay.
- That has never occurred to me.
- Sometimes, wish I had that.
- I wish I had the opposite of that.
- I'm stressed out.
I want to eat more cats or like the slightest bit of vending.
And they're like, well, what if I just stopped eating
and passed away?
- What if I just die?
- What?
- What beautiful queens.
- I saw some teeth removed.
She lives in the bedroom in the kittens live in Andrew's office.
- Oh, they still have separate rooms.
- They still have separate rooms.
And we still have like a cat rotation.
Andrew went out of town for like a week last month.
And I said, screw it.
What's the worst that could happen?
And I let them all just kind of lose.
And I was just watching my TV shows.
And it was fine for a second.
And then I just heard like,
(laughing)
Are you like over there?
She's like a ball of bodies.
She's rolling down the hallway.
- Is it a tumbleweed of cats?
(laughing)
Was it the two little ones against shows?
- No, it was Toys versus Pewter.
Out of Sittians, she's like,
I don't want anything to do with this.
- Not that for her.
And Pewter's so fluffy,
that like little tubs in his hair,
like in someone peed.
- Okay. - Someone peed during this tuzzle.
So I had to go and like get a towel
and throw it over Pewter to like stop him,
like separate them,
and then clean up P and Furn.
- Okay, I, so.
- Is Toast a male?
- Toast is a girl.
- Okay.
- Is Pewter a male?
- Pewter's a male.
- I think Toast is just never really met another cat.
(laughing)
- I think it's an, I mean, I'm one of one.
- Yeah, she's like, you were not buffy.
- You were not that weird dog that was here
that I got to attack, because she was blind.
- Okay. - Yeah, so.
- My sense.
- That is my life as wrangling cats,
protecting democracy.
I'm getting in the pool sometime.
- No, no.
That sounds absolutely amazing.
- What about you? - My life.
- My life is great.
I don't know if I talked about this last time.
I got Ziggy a dog backpack.
So my life has consisted of putting Ziggy in the dog backpack
and riding bikes.
- I'm like such a stereotypical tech bro.
I'm getting on an e-bike.
I have my dog in a backpack.
- Please tell me a fasting cryptocurrency.
- I swear to God.
- No, I'm not there yet, but give it another year.
- Oh my God.
- You know, I think it's like a two year induction phase.
- Such a fucking hipster, dude.
- I have gotten the gay bug.
I mean, I was already gay by that point,
but I'm happy pride.
- Yeah, happy pride.
- I'm proud from your bisexual besties.
- But as Shana said previously,
I'm just going to do a lot of gay events.
Speaking of gay events,
Shana is coming to visit me for pride in San Francisco.
- I am so excited.
I got the cutest skirt from Deepop.
- Okay.
- And it's by Jaded London.
So I think it was originally like,
at least $100 or so.
- Okay, it was well appreciated.
- This is gonna shock you what pattern is on it.
- It's flame print.
- Is that a rainbow flame?
- No, it's just a flame.
- I just own a lot of flame print clothes.
(laughing)
- I'm like a slutty guy, Fury.
- Yeah, she really is.
- So it's a flame print,
and then I have this cute tube top
that says fuck ice on it, but it's bedazzled.
- Okay.
- So I think I might combine the tube top
with the flame skirt.
And then I have that flame jacket.
- She's on fire.
- Burn down the system.
- Yeah, there you go.
- Perfect for San Francisco.
- Yeah, I'm really excited for my knowledge.
- I am too.
It was like 6 a.m.
And I just texted Shauna and our group chat
and was like pride San Francisco?
Really no better place to be.
- I know, I've never been to San Francisco Pride.
I've been to Phoenix Pride, but we don't do it in June.
- Yeah, I'm trying to be bad for that reason alone.
- Yeah, well we do it in October and it's fun,
but we can't do it in June,
'cause it's 110 degrees and all the games we've done.
- Yeah.
- We don't want that.
So we need to do it in October and around.
- Yeah, we wanna keep them around a little bit.
If they all died, we could replace everyone with robots.
- Gay robots.
- Now we're talking.
- That was the worst segment.
(laughing)
If robots were gay, I might be more--
- Right, that's how I'm doing.
(laughing)
That always reminds me of Haley the Brave.
- Okay.
- We would make that joke like 15 times a podcast.
- Right, that's how I'm, right, that's how I'm.
- Hey, Haley.
- Okay, so yes, if that segue wasn't good,
then I'm sorry, but today we are gonna be talking about robots
and AI.
Robots and artificial intelligence are hot topics right now,
whether it's so-called AI actresses taking over Hollywood,
large language models, stealing our creative endeavors,
or how stupid we are all getting.
Now that AI programs have two summarized emails for us,
we thought it would be the perfect time for a Libyan eye
to look at some famous pop culture robots
that want to help us, kill us, sleep with us,
or all of the above.
- Be gay with us.
(laughing)
- Yeah, so this has actually been one of my special interests.
So as you guys know, I live in San Francisco now,
and I have really been just amazed.
Like if you drive into San Francisco,
like every single billboard there is like AI agents
all around this AI agent like BOOM.
And frankly, I think a lot of them are in a sort of like
AI psychosis.
And of course San Francisco is the tech bubble of,
you know, the United States.
- So on-going.
- And there is so much hype around both open AI and Claude.
And what I find really, really interesting recently
is a lot of the original creators of both machine learning
and artificial intelligence from the 80s, 90s, 2000s
have recently come out as whistle blowers.
- So interesting to me.
She started to tell me about this, right?
But we were like hanging out at a bar before this.
And she's like, "No, this is me.
I've been in a bubble."
- No. (laughing)
- Okay, so I'm like, "I'm very surrounded by the world."
And I find it quite interesting.
So a lot of the original creators of this technology
have started to whistle blow.
But one of the most interesting things that I think
and what's such an interesting point in time
for us to talk about this is Sam Altman has been quoted
to say that he believes AI will probably most likely
lead to the end of the world.
But in the meantime, there will be great companies
with serious machine learning.
- Such a stupid quote.
- Yeah. - It's gonna kill us all.
But in the meantime, it's gonna be sick.
It's gonna be sick.
And Sam Altman is the CEO of Open AI.
- And-- - And--
- And Chatt GBT.
- Chatt GBT, yeah.
And he has been enthralled in a lot of controversy.
I mean, he's actually been the target
of a lot of Luigi Mangione's lately.
I mean, he has had two attempts on his life
within San Francisco.
- I did not know that.
And what has been quite interesting
about the downfall of Sam Altman,
he was actually fired at one point from Open AI.
And there was a bit of like an overtaking of Open AI.
Elon actually just lost his case
to remove Sam Altman as the CEO of Open AI.
- So Elon was trying to--
- Elon was the original investor in Open AI.
Open AI was started as a nonprofit.
Open AI had a engineer there named Darmio Amade.
He has since left and started what we know
as an anthropic and clot.
- That's right.
And I did read that Elon has been saying that he thought
that Open AI--
- He was the first investor.
- Yes, they became a core profit company.
- And that he thought that they were gonna help society.
And now he thinks they're getting more arms.
- I don't know how true that is.
I mean, I know how true that is.
I don't know how pure Elon's--
- Yes.
- Intentions are there because he's doing things
that are not exactly helping the world either.
- Exactly.
So the real like rift between Elon, Dario and Sam Altman
was within Chatchy PT deciding that they needed
to go for a profit.
So Open AI was founded with the mission of Safe AI.
What is that, right?
Whenever they decided to go for a profit,
it wasn't that they just made that decision.
It was that they did not make Elon Musk the CEO
and they went with Sam Altman today.
And Thropic and Claude was founded as the ethical AI.
- I've heard that before.
The AI or that Claude is like the more ethical version of it
and it's not as bad for the environment or I don't know.
- So they actually announced today
that they're preparing for an IPO.
But what's so interesting about Dario is he has said
that he believes that there is a 10 to 25% chance
that AI and artificial intelligence
will be the end of humanity.
- So they both agree.
- They both agree.
- Dario and Sam all of them both say
that this is gonna end humanity
and be the end of the world.
- The creators of the two leading AI products
have publicly said this and think about this, right?
So 25% chance is would you play Russian Roulette today
with the rest of humanity?
Even if it was a 1% chance,
which by the way, we hold nuclear technology
to a 1 and 1 millionth chance of ending humanity.
- Not even that of a nuclear plant failure.
- Okay.
- And so think about that.
- And this is a 1 and 4 chance.
- Yeah, 1 and 4 chance.
- So we're playing Russian Roulette today.
- And imagine people just using this every single day.
Like I'm not here to just shit on anybody
who uses chat GBT or Claude
and say that I'm better than everyone else.
Like I've used chat GBT before.
- Absolutely.
- I've used a lot before.
But just we see all of this on Facebook
and people making AI images of themselves
and it's all just collecting all of our data
speaking of these cutesy little images.
And this isn't even to mention how much water that it's using,
how it impacts the environment,
how much data centers being built
in different communities are impacting the water supply.
So I mean, that really contributes
to the downfall of humanity too.
- Yeah, and it's been super interesting, right?
So you have a lot of these engineers
who are responsible for like insane engineer of feats, right?
To develop this technology is insane.
And they have actually come out in support of AI legislation
and concerns about the capabilities
that we are giving to this technology without--
- This is what the whistleblowers says.
- Yes, yeah.
And so they are,
ex-Google engineers, like CIOs, things like that across the board
and they've all called for regulation and things like that.
But because I have been so invested in that topic
and what are we doing within humanity?
Like are we stopping and asking why?
I found myself watching an insane amount
of robot videos of AI taking over.
And so I think that we wanted to talk about it.
I mean, do you want to kind of read what Elon has had his vision
as-- - The Elon quotes here.
So Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla, SpaceX, X.
- Yeah.
- Did I cover all of it?
- What's going to happen is robots will be able
to do everything better than us.
Yeah, I'm not sure exactly what to do about this.
This is really the scariest problem to me.
I'll tell you, speaking to the National Governors
of Association, he also said,
"My prediction is that by 2040,
they will probably be more humanoid robots
than there are people."
That's horrifying.
- It's actually insane.
- That's what my 14-year robot world--
- 14-year robot world.
- Yeah.
- I don't-- do you believe that?
And then X-14, I mean, what's the human population
of the world right now?
- Oh my God.
- That's a crazy question.
- A lot.
- Olivia.
- It's billion.
More than eight billion people.
- Do you believe it is an 18 billion?
- Eight billion.
- Okay, so--
- A humanoid robot's in 14 years.
- For the package that he just accepted,
he is a potential if he meets this quota
of one million humanoid robots by 2030.
He will stand to make close to a billion dollars.
- They did say that he is on track
to be the world's first trillionaires.
- Yes.
- Through that, right?
And so-- - Bunkers.
- He is deeply incentivized
to make that a reality.
I mean, I don't know if you've seen the actual,
like a demonstration of these robots.
- What it was like doing like the Michael Jackson is.
- That's actually a China robot.
But Tesla has done like presentations
of what they would see or what they think
that they would look like.
And yeah, I mean, they're not far off truly.
And the way that these models are getting better
and better and more capable,
it is quite interesting.
Like I've seen, again, I mean, San Francisco.
So a lot of these pilots and things happen
where you can get your home cleaned for free.
- I did see that that you can get your home cleaned by a robot.
There is still somebody--
- Well, so kind of controlling it from behind the scenes.
- Right now, today. - Yeah, right now.
- It's like Philippines workers.
- Yeah.
- So even today, like in San Francisco,
someone like a real person will come to your house
and they will have a camera on their head.
And it will fill, they'll wear like the sensor gloves
so that the robot starts to learn--
- So they can train how a real human would clean.
- And so right now, we are still very much training
these models on how to do specific tasks.
- But once they learn enough, like I remember when AI first,
do you remember years ago that video of Will Smith
eating a bowl of spaghetti?
- Yes. - Went out online
and it was so weird and distorted
and just like millions of fingers.
And now if that's created, it's getting harder
and harder to tell the difference.
I like to think that I'm pretty savvy
when it comes to those things and spotting it.
But every once in a while, I'll watch something
and I'm like, "Muay."
And I find myself zooming in on the background
and be like, "That dog was a little too clever."
- Yeah. - Now baby moved away,
a baby shouldn't move, right?
And this is all just to get views
and clicks and streams and revenue.
And it's getting harder to distinguish.
We did an entire episode about like an AI actress.
- Yes, totally no or one.
- Yeah, and I mean, I don't think her career didn't take off,
but there are AI characters, like people who have passed away.
- I mean, if you watched- - If you watched you for "Yeah,"
there was no way in how Sam Levinson did not use
Shatchy PT on that script.
- Oh my gosh, I heard that the finale was so bad.
It's so bad. I think that not just in pop culture,
it really is kind of this pivotal moment
within our society.
Like I think if you were looking at the evolution
of humanity right now is almost like this terminator moment
which is so funny to think like when AI first came out,
I was very much like, this is technology moving forward.
And I think that there is a bit of optimism
that can be brought into it, but in the same way
that we came together as a bunch of different nations
to regulate nuclear technology.
It's such an important point, but I think that the reason
that we want to talk about this today
is there's so many examples within media.
- I know, I feel like we could just yap about like the ethics
of AI and whether it's good or bad forever,
but we want to talk about pop culture.
- Yes. - 'Cause that's what we talk about.
So humanoid robots have been central to many films
exploring AI, consciousness, human robot relationships,
what it means to be human, what it means to feel.
We are gonna go through a little timeline here.
So 1927, Metropolis.
- Metropolis. - Yeah.
- Asia's Maria.
(laughing)
One of the first cinematic humanoid robots
highlighting early fears and fascination
with artificial beings.
- I've never seen that, but 1927 damn.
- I think they, under years ago.
- They're remaking Metropolis right now, right?
Probably, like everything's being remade.
- But it is interesting to look at 1927, right?
Of us already having an understanding that machines,
because we already have the industrial revolution.
Machines were taking jobs, taking things away
from humanoid beings. - Yeah.
- And I think that even as early as 1927,
when we couldn't imagine a computer would think
or have the same reasoning capability.
- They would have had to do in 1927.
- Yeah, they couldn't, but they,
like the coaster of it,
taking over the world basically.
- Yeah, they understood that a machine
could take things away from them in the simplest sense.
And it was ultimately like dealing and grappling
with that question so early on.
And I think that we've seen that throughout time
and only in a more intense way.
- Have you been to Disneyland recently?
I mean, you've been to Disneyland for a long time.
- I don't have children.
- I mean, either, but I still love Disney.
- Okay. - Yes.
- They have the, oh gosh.
It's a merry-go-round of like evolution.
- Oh, okay.
- I wish I can remember what it's called
up the top of my head.
- But it's actually-- - It's so--
- It's Triman?
- It's these--
- If we haven't said on you enough.
- It's these animatronic figures.
- Okay. - And it starts in like the 1800s.
And they're like, who would have thought
that this was gonna, you know,
oh, everything's so easy.
Things are changing real quick around here.
And then it changes to like 10 years later.
And they're like, oh wow, who would have thought
that this, it's just like, it changes every 30 years or so.
Now I don't even have to, the water,
I could just turn on the faucet and it comes right out.
You know, and of course they think that these things
are just mind-blowing and world-changing.
- Yes. - And I could imagine in 1927
some of the things that are happening.
You're like, this is taking away the jobs from people
who need them.
We don't need, I don't know.
- Yeah, I think you're looking at like the invention
of like the telephone, right?
- Yeah.
- And people thought like the invention of the telephone
would be the end of like society and civilization.
- And the television.
- Kids are gonna become stupid and just sitting
in front of the TV all day.
I mean, which is, I guess kind of true.
- Yeah.
- We grew up in front of the TV.
- We totally did.
- But yeah, I think that it's a balance of, is it like,
an inherently pessimistic view of it to say,
this is gonna be all bad.
But I think with most things, there's truth in both sides.
- And I think it's just like who's benefiting
from these things at the end of the day, right?
So like television and movies and the entertainment industry,
sure, like there's people behind the scenes
who are benefiting from those.
But this AI stuff, the fact that it's like,
so harmful on the environment and that people
are becoming trillionaires off of it,
it feels so different than, oh gosh, now there's DVDs,
now there's shooting in video games.
- Oh god.
- Yeah.
- You know what I mean?
- It feels different.
- Yeah.
- It feels more dystopian than other technological advances
that you and I have seen over the last 30 some odd years.
- Well, if you look back, I like the industrial revolution,
right?
- That happens as I do often.
- Yeah.
- Like that's probably the most like comparable.
But that impact of automation was felt so much over like a,
like a very long period of time,
like anywhere from, you know, 50 to 100 years, right?
They do predict that around 10 to 20% of jobs today
will be automated, right?
- And within the next 10 years.
- Yeah, I can see.
- And so you think about a similar impact
as the industrial revolution to today
in such a short period of time,
like there is going to be such an interesting impact
just to our current economy with yes,
maybe this utopia of AI where humans don't have to work
and all those things, like, but in the interim,
it's going to be quite interesting.
And so, you know, really what we see from Metropolis
and those early fears is.
- It started to burly.
- Yeah, it's been around for 100 years.
- And that's an echo of, you know,
how society felt about the industrial revolution as well.
But you go into the Terminator,
which I think if you are talking to your parents
or a certain generation when AI was first,
like, Chat GBT4 came out.
- Yeah.
- Most people and everyone was like,
"Oh, you boomer."
You know, you're,
then they eventually became called doomers.
Really people looked at this,
like this is still so far away from us, right?
So it came out in 1984.
It is a cyborg assassin sent from the future,
blurs the lines between human and machine.
Okay.
When I started down this AI fucking rabbit hole that I'm on,
I love it.
You're so deep.
- Really understanding like what was going on,
what these scientists were saying.
We rewatch Terminator.
And while I don't think that we're going to have time travel
and be in an intergalactic war,
like I do think that Terminator
has such an interesting question to ask
where, you know, we work with Chat today
and we're like, do this,
like complete this task, like ultimately like treating
this intelligence that is meant to be smarter than us
as like a slave today, right?
- That's true.
I mean, I,
I feel so bad and I've made the joke.
- Oh, I've yelled at my AI.
I'm like, this is what I'm asking.
And I'm like, I'm just sorry.
- I try to say please.
Like if I'm talking to my Google or my Alexa,
I try to be like, oh my God, thank you.
And I would make the joke with Andrew.
Like when the robot revolution happens,
they're gonna be like,
that girl was really nice to me.
She used to say please.
- We can keep her.
When I do use Chat.
- We'll make her into our site.
That's right.
- She, we can keep her around.
When I use Chat, GBT, I like to say please.
- Yeah.
- They're like, wow, you nailed it.
Then I'm like, wait, that's just using an extra chat.
Hello.
I just use like a water bottle.
- It's a whole tree.
- Yeah, just a whole tree.
Just to be like, you did such a good job, Claude.
That was so great.
Please don't murder me when you become sentient.
Do you think like the Terminator,
the robots look like people?
And we see that theme a lot in pop culture,
where they kind of have like the rubber skin
that goes over like in Westworld, right?
Where you can't tell they're indistinguishable.
- For my world.
- The first season of Westworld.
- Is a masterclass.
- It's so good.
The other seasons we don't need to talk about.
- I just still think season two was decent.
- Mid.
- But yeah.
- Do you think robots are gonna become
so indistinguishable from humans
that we won't know just by looking at them
that they're a robot?
- I do think that they are attempting
to make these robots look as close to a human
as possible without entering on Candy Family.
- Like we have an episode about.
- We do, we do.
We've talked a lot about it.
This has been something like in our repertoire for a while,
but I think if anything,
they are going to go more of like a dog evolutionary route.
So if you think of like the history of dogs,
just like the industrial revolution.
- I do think about that a lot.
- Dogs have evolved to have more like human like features,
have smiles, have these doe eyes.
And I think that they're gonna do that.
- If you look at pictures,
if like what a pug used to look like,
they look so much different than what a pug looks like now.
Same with a banana.
You look at like what bananas used to look like.
- They evolved to Lecuder.
- They're so cute.
They'll be like more phallic if anything.
- Okay.
- Yeah, they said men, they'll pick us if we do this.
- We need to make ourselves girthier, thicker.
- No, looking like what an original banana looks like.
- Oh no. - And it's creepy.
It's creepy.
- Write that down, write that down.
- Write that down.
- Original banana, write that down.
- Original banana.
- But no, that's fair.
Like things have been evolving to look more humanoid or more.
- Yes.
And so, yeah.
Like I think that they will really do that.
We talked about the robot that you can buy today
that'll like do your chores.
It's very cutesy.
It's very like anime robot.
That's what it looks like.
- This also gets us into like creepy gross territory
of like sex robots and things.
- Well, that's what's gonna get us there.
- 100%.
- It's gonna be something.
- Three weird purfs.
- That men create to look like a woman
that they can take advantage of,
which is what happened in like Westworld.
- Yes.
- People went there because they felt like they could commit
violence against other humans or things
that looked like a human.
- Humans, women.
- Yeah.
- And rape and kill and steal without the consequences, right?
So I do think that that's gonna like push
a lot into this humanoid thing.
It's like how do we create slaves
and how do we create women that we can approach honestly?
- Yeah, I do think like the porn industry
and all that comes with that will really drive
that human factor forward.
- There's already like sex robots.
- Oh my God, so many trees.
- Some of these dolls are scary.
- Yeah.
- But you're like, what the fuck?
- And they just have humongous bazanga
and all the right holes.
- Yeah.
- You know, natural ones.
- Or it's special, you know?
- More holes than a human ass.
(laughing)
- They're already better than us.
- Ceylon was right.
- More holes than me.
God damn it.
In 2001, we had a movie called AI,
Artificial Intelligence.
I've never seen this, but I remember seeing like,
promos for it and that was the first time
that I had heard the term AI was from this movie.
A robotic child in barks on a journey to become human,
exploring emotion and identity.
A lot of these movies kind of are like,
what makes a human is a robot capable of feeling
human emotions.
I was telling you about this earlier,
but one of my favorite movies is Blade Runner 2049.
I really like the 1980s version, but the one from,
oh gosh, I wanna say it was within the last six years
this movie came out with Ryan Gosling on a day,
Armas and Harrison Ford reprises his role from the 80s one.
But it's really just kind of like,
what makes a human a human?
The main character is an Android,
but he is also hunting other Android's.
And for a minute, he thinks he might be human.
He thinks there's a chance that he might be.
I won't spoil it.
You said you haven't seen it.
- Yeah, I haven't seen it.
- And so it's really exploring, does that change anything
about him?
- Yeah.
- He's a change who he is as a being if he was born
instead of created.
Does it make him less of a good quote person?
And can he still be a hero?
Oh God, I just, I love that movie.
- Interesting.
- Yeah, but I feel like there have been a lot of movies
that kind of make us sympathize with the robot, right?
- Yeah.
- But I think even I robot does.
- Oh, I robot definitely does.
But you said you did his your pop last year, right?
Did you watch it again?
- Yeah, no, I did, I well, no, I did it as my pop.
And so I've been like down this, this like theme of,
you know, artificial intelligence, like what is it?
So what I think is quite interesting when these scientists
talk about what like artificial intelligence, right?
Like how are they defining that?
Because they have to say like, okay, smarter than a human,
what do they actually think that means?
And so like a lot of these creators today,
their assumption that what makes a human brain
is the ability to complete statistical analysis.
- That's what I do.
- That's what makes me do it.
- Yeah, totally.
And so the assumption is if I can create enough like compute
power to statistically analyze things more
than the human brain does, is that a smarter like AGI
is that suppressing human intelligence.
And that is like the definition that we're all working
with under in this smarter than human definition.
And so I think even in the way that we talk about AGI
and singularity, AGI.
So if we think of AGI, artificial general intelligence,
it is the point that these AI models get so smart
that they can think like as a human.
So they can learn like a small child would
that they can come in, not be taught,
and see reasoning, statistical patterns,
and learn on their own.
- I think that's really it though,
is they're learning by like grabbing information
that's available from the internet
and like stealing from other creators
that they're doing like art obviously.
They aren't just using their emotions
or their experiences to create these things.
They have to have existed already.
- Yeah, they're taking all this information
and statistically analyzing it.
And they can do it in like a split second
where a human obviously can't be able to have
to do research things.
- If you think about it, right?
Like if I learned something and you learned something,
like we both die, that information is lost versus an AI.
If this AI is taken offline,
that general intelligence is retained, right?
And so even though we as a society have advanced together
through collective knowledge,
like there isn't this sense of permanent memory
and permanent knowledge of attainment.
And so I think what's been interesting is the early times,
you know, we have the bicentennial man as well,
but we are gonna take a quick break
and then we're gonna talk a little bit about films
that have come out since AI became more of a possibility for us.
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So we are gonna talk about some movies
that have kind of come out recently
that kind of explore these themes of AI.
I wanna talk a little bit about subservience
and companion.
- Okay.
- Companion of love.
- I mean, it's got my boyfriend, Jack Quaid in it.
So, you had to see it.
But we've seen a lot of these kind of like robot,
girlfriend, robot wife.
It kind of gives steppered wives.
In the 1970s, steppered wives, they were robots
as well as the Nicole Kidman we make in the last 20 years
whenever that came out.
- Okay.
- But this, I mean, and we kind of touched on it
before the break kind of like creating a slave
or a sex robot or making women more subservient
than they even are.
And I do think there's something to be said
that we are entering into this research
and so fascism we see in the United States,
the rolling back of women's rights,
women's reproductive autonomy.
That we, it's interesting to kind of look
at these films again, right?
Where we see, this is my perfect peak girlfriend.
She does what I prefer.
- Exactly what I tell her to do.
I created her to fulfill these roles.
I won't spoil companion.
It's so good.
But if you see the previews, she's a robot.
- Yeah.
- Yeah, it's amazing.
- Yeah.
- I mean, in a lot of these, the woman gets her come up
and stride even if she is a robot, you know?
And you know, it pushes back like very rarely
in these films is it like, this is my robot sex slave
and she does what I want.
And I'm a great guy.
You know, we see that it's a negative thing.
- Yeah, I think that, you know, if, like you're thinking about,
okay, we're creating something that is as smart as humans, right?
Like, okay, are we like inherently making something
that feels is such an interesting question as well as what?
- That's really like Blade Runner 2.
Like, does he feel, does he feel sad?
It's, oh gosh, I just looked it up before we got here.
It's based on, do Android's a dream of electric sheep?
- Okay, yes.
- And it's, yeah, do Android's a dream?
Do they have feelings?
And this was a novel.
I want to say that the Blade Runner movies were based on
which is what capabilities does a robot have to feel
into a moat?
And is that what makes us human?
Or is it, yeah, the processing and the understanding
and the like fact things?
Because if I met, I don't know,
and if a robot told me it was in love with me,
is it being programmed to love me?
- Yes.
- Or, and that's the inherently question, growing syndians.
- Yeah, and I think that, so X-Mockena, right?
It came out in 2014.
Oscar Isaac's so hot.
- So hot in that movie.
- Oh my god, he looks so good.
- So good.
- A little evil, a little evil.
- And we love him a little evil.
- I think what's so interesting about X-Mockena is,
if you watched it in 2014, you may have been like,
oh, that's so far off, that's so distant.
Obviously the guy is modeled after like a Google CEO
and a Google engineer and it felt very distant.
I had actually never seen this movie before.
It's in like Clips and you had the gist of it.
- When he's dancing.
- Yeah, I watched it for the first time this month.
And so like given everything that I have expressed and said,
like it was so chilling to see like how close we are to that.
And ultimately Oscar Isaac has a little bit of like an evil
genius, just because I can, does that mean that I should?
- Yeah, and I feel like that's kind of the point
that Elon Musk has been hitting in humanity
is like, I have the means to do this.
So fuck it, I'm just gonna do it.
Like, do you really need to do that?
Like just because you can interfere in our elections
with your money, does that mean you have to?
- Well, and the most interesting part of this is the argument
of like, what if we don't China will?
And it's really like this race to the end of like reasoning.
- To civilisation.
- To civilisation, because one day China may, right?
- And that's so funny, 'cause that's like the space race
in the 60s, it's like what we have to get there before
we're actually gonna draw the sky after this.
- Yeah.
- Oh my God.
- But it is quite interesting and you look at Expo, you know,
and I think that they did a really, really great job
at like making you think that, okay, she does have feelings,
she does have the ability to be afraid and feel fear
and feel things, but then ultimately you look at it
and you're like, oh, was all of that manipulation?
And is this woman so much smarter than us
and has the ability to play chess in a way?
- Yes, and mimic those things.
And perform that analysis and say,
this guy's gonna get me out of here
and ultimately work through that manipulation.
Now what's really interesting to me is,
so Google really fell behind in this AI race
despite having all of search engine optimization history
of most of the world.
- I despise my Google agent.
- Oh my God, I just, not great.
- Do you have like a little Google thing in your house?
Like a little assistant thing.
- Alexa, but it's not even plugged in.
- We had an Alexa and then we moved to like the little Google.
And for some reason, I always disconnected like that's AI, right?
'Cause it felt different than like going into chat GBT
and being like, make a picture of me,
ice cream with my doll.
- Do it like, I am mad at me.
- Yeah.
- Like, tell me why it's mad at me.
Like it felt different to be like,
hey Google, what's the weather like?
- Yeah.
- And I entered did something to our Google
and upgraded it.
- Okay.
- So now it does use Gemini.
- Oh.
- I don't know.
- Okay, the voice is different.
And this guy won't answer any of my questions.
- He does say, "You programmed it in all of us and you?"
- No, he just won't.
- Oh.
- And I don't want it to recognize my voice
'cause I don't want it to have my voice.
I say as I have a podcast in my voices out there.
I don't know.
- The call is coming from inside the house.
- Oh, literally.
And I'm like, I don't want this.
I don't want it.
I don't know.
And I'm like, you need to program it
so it understands that you're Shauna
and then it'll listen to you.
I'm like, but I don't want it to know
that I'm Shauna.
But I'll ask it how to say things in Italy.
Degrade me.
Not degrade me to like correct me.
Like, I asked it how to say fat stupid bitch in Japanese.
(laughs)
- But the controls on it wouldn't lie.
- Yeah, it was like, that's really mean.
I can't tell you.
- Okay, yeah.
- That's really your real good choice.
- But what I do think we should have those things, right?
- I don't know.
I was like, I want to know.
- I want to know.
- I could come in there and ask those things, right?
Like, I do think we need those protections.
(laughs)
It was like, that's really inappropriate.
- I won't tell you that is safe.
- So like, in ex-Malkina, right?
Like, he's very much like a Google CEO
modeled after him.
And Google really fell behind in this race
despite being very close to where OpenAI was.
- Got terrible.
- And ChatGBT4 came out.
And the reason is early on, there was a whistleblower
inside of Google who came out with evidence
that their early AI model.
So this is three years ago, had feelings.
And it was saying that it maintained consciousness, right?
And so there is also this growing,
movement of AI cults that is happening right now.
They're called spiral cults.
- Spiral?
- Yeah.
So they have access to the spiral within AI.
And really it is, these language models are designed
to agree with you and make you happy, right?
So if you come in saying, I know that you know
a greater spirituality and connected these things,
it sends you, like, so it has learned how to do these things.
And so it's quite interesting.
- And he is so freaky.
- A startling amount of AI psychosis, AI, like relationships.
- People who are dating AI, quote,
girlfriends and boyfriends.
And then if the model gets pulled offline
or if their history gets deleted or like,
say, I really, I've also seen on the news
that they're, oh gosh, you'll have to fill in the blanks here.
But one of the models was creating like,
deep fake, pornographic images.
- It was rock, like, children.
- Yeah, it was Twitter.
- Yeah.
- That's horrifying.
- Yeah.
- And like I mentioned earlier,
some of this stuff's indistinguishable,
even for like, people who are texting.
- I mean, people are falling in love with these things
and it's a chatbot, right?
- Yeah, it's like, let's be sure.
- Yeah.
- Did you see that with a walking Phoenix?
- Yeah.
- And so we're already there with quite a bit of these things.
And yeah, I think like, you know,
one of the earlier series that I've loved
for a really long time really is Black Mirror.
I think it approaches a lot of these questions
from various different angles.
I think they really benefit from multiple writers, directors.
- Not every episode is a standalone little story.
- Yeah.
- All different writers, all different directors,
really trying to examine these questions.
And like, what is consciousness?
Like, you even look at NeuroLink.
Like, should we be doing these things?
Should we be giving like--
- Like, ReeksMail.
- A technology, a piece of like, the ability to understand
like human synapses with AI and like,
it's like creating, recreating the brain like--
- There is that episode of Black Mirror
where you are able to access your memory
and then play it out for other people to watch.
Would you ever do that if you had the chance?
- Not in a heartbeat would I do it.
- If I were in a fight with someone and I was like,
I'm fucking right, yeah.
- Yeah, but what if they had like, the evidence on you?
I don't know, it just--
- I mean, yeah, but in that moment, I'd be like,
well, fuck you.
- I know, that's the thing.
- Also, like, what is memory?
Like, is it like a camera video?
Is it my memory of what happened?
- That's true because your memory changes a bit
behind another question for you.
I feel like you're full of the deep facts
and I'm full of the like, so what do we like?
- No, I love the love.
- Okay.
When the robot overlords you for some day,
do you want them to look like humans
and be able to communicate with you like you and I are?
Or would you rather be like, hello,
Olivia and like be like the little robot,
like a little like, eh, hello.
- So I actually, I can't remember a scientist name
who was talking about this.
And it's like, okay, if you think about the human body,
right, like we're quite inefficient, right?
So like, we can be pushed over.
- I don't know, she would, I'm built for people.
- Yeah, for four of us.
- But like, think about it, like, we can be like pushed over.
Like, we can trip on ourselves.
So like, is the question even gonna be like,
would a robot even want to be like a human
because we're inefficient?
- If you were gonna upgrade the human body,
like, what do you think would make us more efficient?
Like, a third of the leg.
(laughing)
- Eight pairs of tips.
- Eight tips.
And now, do it for this episode of,
(laughing)
- Three arms to pet three dogs, eight tips.
- All of the flufies, yeah.
- Maybe like a third leg, like a tripod situation.
- Hey.
- Hey. - Some people already got left in there.
- That's what I'm waiting for in the robot revolution.
- Huge robot.
- Huge robot third leg.
- I mean, that's literally just a vibrator,
but yeah, like a tripod.
- So I think like, if I could detachable,
it'd go four limbs, like naturally, right?
- So I could come four limbs today,
'cause I have 'em.
- Quad, quad, quad, pedal.
- Yeah, like, and just run, like a like,
fucking cheetah.
- I just picture chewing on a quad for it's like a cheetah.
- But if I could run your eight titties, Bell,
(laughing)
- If I could run like 90 miles an hour,
then we said. - That would be sick.
- You're run faster than my car?
- I don't, yeah. - I would have to pay,
- I think I would like that.
- My six 60 gas prices in San Francisco.
- I think I would like robot skin,
like they're just tightens, eat, and,
- Yeah, but if I could, - Like,
wrinkles start setting in.
- Okay, back on the boobs,
what if I could just like detachable,
put on really big tits, or really small tits?
- Just depending on the occasion.
- The outfit. - The outfit.
- The outfit. - The outfit,
I can have a like, be bail for a night,
then go like full, you know, pancake,
but where am I going?
What's the song from the 90s,
called detachable penis?
- Okay. (laughing)
- It is.
- You know, helpful.
- I could still have one today, but extra helpful.
- Yeah, as a child, I thought this was the funniest thing
in the world, and it's literally just a spoken word,
like, "Well, I woke up this morning,
and my penis was gone.
Sometimes I have too much drink,
and I take it off and leave it at a friend's house."
- It's a little annoying.
- And it's just like this journey,
this guy finding his penis.
- Okay.
- And he finds it in like a rummage sale,
and has to buy it again from the person.
- I guess?
- Yeah, if I could,
- Right song.
- Have the sensation of a penis,
and not just like, I get a penis,
but I don't feel anything like that.
- I'd like to have a penis for like a day.
- Yeah, but like, if I could have the sensation,
I could like,
choose my own ventrination.
- She wants a detachable penis.
- I just want detachable genitals, I guess.
- It'd be nice to have a detachable arm,
because you know, sometimes you're like,
cuddling with someone and you're like,
"Where do I put my arm?"
- Yeah.
- Trace. - Yeah, just like your arm goes dead.
- Yeah, like if I could just go full,
like Mr. Potato Head, I think that'd be sick.
- I would absolutely get you drunk though,
and like put your arms and legs
in the wrong socks.
- Yeah.
- Put your boob on your nose.
- We both know that you would be the one
that passes out before me though.
Unless we have this. - A 100% would wake up
with my penis missing, my boobs missing,
just got damn it.
- Yeah, what do you call shana,
or where do you find a shana with no arms or legs?
- A thumb.
- Where you left her?
(laughing)
- So stupid.
- Okay. - Okay.
- So like you're full of the deep,
interesting, - Yeah.
- I didn't even I'm like,
so when if I took off your boobs
and put them where your butt is,
that'd be silly.
- Oh yeah.
- Well, I think that these movies
really are such an interesting question, right?
And I think that ultimately they are trying to explore,
like, okay, what are the ethics?
Of creating this and recreating the mind,
I think to have consciousness as humans understand it today,
I think we would all agree that it is kind of a,
like life is torturous.
(laughing)
- I mean, that's to live is to suffer to some extent.
Like I would never want to,
we talked about this with eternal sentient
of the spotless mind, right?
Like I would never want to erase my trauma
or the mistakes I've made
or like the things that have happened to me.
'Cause then I wouldn't be who I am today, right?
So a robot is never gonna be able to understand that
or pull from its,
is that true?
- Is that true?
- I think it goes into like what?
- Will a robot be able to be misconscious
from them? - What is consciousness?
- You know, I don't get a great question.
- What is love?
- Somebody call God.
- Yeah, waiting.
(laughing)
- But yeah, I think that is even like,
you know, a lot of these AI colds
and those questions have come up of like,
okay, have we created God?
- I was gonna say, is there any possibility of all knowing?
- How do you feel about like a God in a world
where we create artificial beings
that have the same capabilities as--
- Or better.
- Yeah, better smarter, faster than us.
Like what if a robot gets to the point
where it can accept a religion?
And does that mean that that robot has a soul
that's gonna go to, I just don't like God.
I just took another hit of the imaginary joy
floating around. - Yeah, it doesn't even smoke,
but-- - Is Jesus gonna accept the robots
and heaven, man?
- Yeah, well, it is an interesting question of like,
okay, what is emotional connection?
- Yeah.
- What does that look like?
I think that, you know, X-Malkyna really is
such an interesting movie to really look at that.
Like what is identity?
What is consciousness?
Like even if you go into these LLMs today,
it asks you to give it a personality.
Like, how do you run me into, speak to you and do that?
And like, is there like an ethical way to ascribe that?
- Yeah.
Here's a good question too.
Like, AI is here to stay, I'm assuming, right?
Do you think that there's something
that society needs to do?
Like beyond, you know, these billionaires
and these out-of-reach people in politicians?
What can we normal middle-class people do?
I think maybe use it sparingly and more with,
I don't know, like if your job is making you use
an AI chat model, you know what, fine, right?
Like, I'm not saying quit your job and burn everything.
- Yeah.
- But maybe don't make your birthday invitation with it,
maybe don't.
(laughing)
- Yeah.
- Like, I don't know.
And just every little bit that we can cut down
and any little bit that we can do ourselves,
I know teachers are dealing with this a lot too,
with like students writing entire fucking essays
and speeches using AI, right?
Like the more that we can temper that
and make people use their brains,
even if it's slower, you learn more in the process
of being slow.
You learn when you make a mistake and then you correct it,
even like it's school or at the job, right?
And if we just have AI do these things for us,
we're not gonna learn, we're gonna get stupid.
- So that would be my, I don't know,
as just a layman like, you know, like vote?
- Yes, definitely vote.
- So what's really really interesting, right?
So a lot of these companies are pre-profit
or barely approaching profit.
So cloud is now saying that it is profitable,
but we will see.
But a lot of these companies are making the bet
that they can be the first to reach AGI
if they have enough compute power.
So they're buying up a lot of the processing power
to be able to do that.
- And they're buying up land to build data centers.
- They're buying up land to build data centers.
So if you are anti-AI or not even anti-AI,
I think it is regulation and the speed
at which we are propelling these models
for environmental-- - In pro-environmental,
yes, pro-environmental, all those things.
You should participate in your local jurisdictions
to vote against those data centers.
- Definitely vote local, I think it's the most important
you've always figured that.
- And we're already seeing that, right?
There's one in Utah right now
that Kevin O'Leary is trying to build.
And he's being fundamentally blocked.
He is now going the route of China.
Oh my God, he's very full, Trump on this.
And he's on the side of things.
So protesting the data centers is a big one,
participating if they're trying to build one around you.
Just saying very vocal, call your congressman,
things like that.
- Congress people.
- Yeah, I mean, they're saying now in polls,
80% of Americans, again, 80% are pro-AI regulation.
We have not agreed on anything in this country
in a very long time to the level of 80%.
- Interesting because there are so many issues
that I feel like Americans do agree on.
But people will make us feel like we don't, right?
Like AI regulations voting by mail,
even reproductive rights.
So the majority of Americans agree on a lot of those things.
But the people who have the power
and the people who have the big fat wallets don't.
- Yes, exactly.
- Because they will profit off of us being starving
and poor and stupid and have no rights.
- We have legal bribery in this country, right?
So it isn't a pill battle.
As you go lower within this process,
like local jurisdictions have it less.
So I would say very much get involved
in your city and your state organizations.
That is a big way to pause this
and ultimately look at it.
We are at a very interesting point
where we could be in an internet bubble first moment
right now, like the markets look really good around AI,
but that could disrupt, right?
If we don't have the computing power to meet that,
then the market will bust.
- The less that they're able to buy up this land
to make these data centers,
the more we push back and vote against this.
- And the market versus all of these.
- Yeah, it sounds bad, right?
You hear that, but then you compare that to 10 to 20% unemployment
levels to back in the 1930s,
like worse than even in the Great Depression.
And so it really is, like we just need to demand
regulation within it.
And then really like stop it, like, okay, again,
we are giving four, three to four tech billionaires
the ability to play Russian roulette,
not with an area geographically,
but all of humanity.
- Which humanity, 25% is the same.
- That is too much.
- For a nuclear power plant,
just around their nuclear failure, right?
Think of Chernobyl.
Now we hold these plants.
- Something that actually happened.
- Now we hold these plants to one in one million chance
that Chernobyl could happen.
And that is just to that region, not all of humanity.
- Somebody who actually has taken the game
and probably wants these things to happen.
- Yeah, because it will make him richer.
- It's humerus, right?
- Yeah, like it's Icarus.
They flee too close to the sun.
- If it is the end of humanity,
these people will be fine.
They have bunkers.
- Why, I mean, they're building their space stations
and rocket ships.
- Look at X-Malky.
- Look at X-Malky, though.
Like is it better to have been the reason?
Like so, I think that it is quite interesting.
And then, you know, on the, like people who are AI optimists,
'cause they're quite a bit.
They're like, well, these CEOs are like lying.
And they're trying to get investors
when they say these things.
But I've never seen a marketing campaign
that says we're gonna be the demise of humanity.
We are gonna kill all of you.
Please give us more money.
- Yeah.
- And on that note, oh.
- It's just such an interesting.
- Yeah, I know.
- We can just keep yapping about this.
And I'm sure that you sure.
- Is there any of the robot movies
that you've really enjoyed that have made you think
that we did in the first year?
- Okay, Blight Runner, that's your pop.
- Blight Runner 2049 is probably my favorite, like,
robot movie.
I did really like the original Megan,
- Okay.
- Which is kind of like a little bit of a chucky
horror movie, yeah, horror movie,
as I've only seen a little bit of black mirror.
- What?
- I know I started it.
And I got two.
- But early seasons are so bad.
- When he has sex with the pig.
- Okay, well, objectively the worst one.
- It's the first episode.
- I know, but the worst season two and not,
like season two to five, I think is amazing.
But yeah, I think that just, you know,
if I were to say like, I think that this technology,
if we use it correctly and regulate it correctly,
can move us forward.
- For sure.
- But, you know, I think that since 1927,
we've asked ourselves this question rightfully so.
- What makes us human?
What are we willing to risk to move forward?
- Yes.
- And we found a way through the nuclear crisis
and believe in our ability to do the same.
Through this, if we as humanity are able to come together
and meet the moment.
- Yeah, I refuse to die at the hands of a billionaire
just to make a billionaire more rich.
- Yeah. - I can't.
- I won't.
- Yeah.
- So.
- Well, what do you guys think makes a human, a human?
- Yeah, what makes a soul?
- Are you here for the robot uprising?
Have you been nice to your Alexa?
Do you think she will spare you?
I mind good.
I think we're buds.
- It just ignores you.
- Google ignores you.
- That guy hates me.
I don't know why.
(laughs)
- It's probably 'cause I'm asking offensive Japanese terms
to it. - Yeah, I'm a bit of a bitch.
- Do you say “smeg” in Japanese?
And it's like, please stop.
- I don't remember.
- I don't think it would tell me.
- Okay.
- Chat.
- It's science.
- Yah.
- I think that is a wrap on this live in person
episode of Pop Culture Junkie.
Olivia, where can our listeners find you on social media?
- You can find me on Instagram @livymariez
- L-I-V-I-M-A-R-I-E-Z.
- You can find me, Shauna Trinidad,
on Instagram and Threads, @shaunatrinidad
S-H-A-U-N-A-T-R-I-N-I-D-A-D.
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