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Hello and welcome to Development Purgatory!

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This is the podcast all about the movies that were never made, the scripts that were never

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written, and the ideas that never even made it to the page.

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My name is Daniel Kawka, and I'm Lexcee Riley.

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Every episode, the room is just going to get darker and darker until we are podcasting

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in pure darkness.

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No!

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Oh, okay.

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No, no.

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It's become a visual medium.

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It's true.

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No, we started off in pure darkness and then we've hit the light and then we turned it

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down a little.

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Yeah, we're just every episode, we dial it in a wee bit more.

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Anyway, let's start off with who is your favorite Tom Selic character?

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Richard!

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Richard from France.

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Right, the baby's probably don't know.

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Did you know that Tom Selic and Henry Selic are not related at all?

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And we are actually talking about the unrelated Henry Selic.

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This is how you do it to me in this episode.

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Talk to me all about Tom Selic and his summer shorts and his Magnum PI.

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For no reason!

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All for the swelopsy doodle.

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Rude, it's weird as to what it is.

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But we are talking about Henry Selic.

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We're going to be talking about the movies that he almost made that he didn't make and

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kind of his career in general because his career is quite a doozy and it is a lot of fun.

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I like this.

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It's cool to have a script that wasn't made, but there are so many movies and creators that

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have more than one in the bucket that didn't happen and so I think it's fun to have a little

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bit different trajectory of an episode.

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Yeah.

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I'm here for it.

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Now I have told you what Henry Selic has made throughout his career and I just want to

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ask you what is your favorite?

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Coraline.

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Coraline.

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Coraline is your favorite.

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She's a palimine.

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Talk about Coraline.

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I actually had seen all of my assignments which was a first and I was exciting to

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kind of revisit these things because it was monkey bone, Coraline, nightmare before Christmas

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and Wendell and Wilde.

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And my favorite, James and the Giant Peach.

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And James and the Giant Peach.

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James and the Giant Peach was the first one I re-watched and it didn't.

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I got a little bored.

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I love that movie.

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I just don't know if I've aged out of the wonder or I don't know.

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I think it has to do with there was a mix of the live action and a mix of the stop

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motion and trying to find the balance between the two.

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The answer is great.

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And we will dive more into that story when we get to the section of James and the Giant

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Peach.

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But before we do that, we are going to get into the peaches of these advertisements.

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And we're back.

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Probably all those peaches were yummy.

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I will say every time I watch that movie I do want peaches.

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That should have been an advertisement for peaches.

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Even as a child I was like, they taste so great.

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For something that you definitely know is inedible, they make it look delicious on screen.

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Yeah.

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And like the peach, slushy thing and like the icy cold mug.

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Mm-hmm.

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Mm-hmm.

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So good.

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Actually I do want to ask you, what do you know about Henry Selik?

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How old do you think he is?

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I'm kidding.

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I cheated a little bit.

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I cheated a wee bit.

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Okay.

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He's 73.

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I didn't even know that answer.

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I'm sorry.

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As you pulled that off.

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I cheated a little bit because when I was watching Monkey Bone last night, I was like, God,

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this movie is so dated.

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But I was thinking about the fact that like we've gotten older and like we're in a prime

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of our career and I was like, oh, wait, if this man was making these in the 90s and then

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Wendell and Wilde is 2022.

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I worked on it a little bit.

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That's the only reason I know.

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I just was like, wait, how old is this man?

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If he is still talking about like projects he wants to do, so 73.

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That's the answer.

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He's a spry 73 years old.

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Mm-hmm.

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He's in the prime of life.

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Let's really dive into who Henry Selik is.

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Henry Selik is one of the greatest filmmakers.

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Most people don't know by name.

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He's best known for Nightmare Before Christmas, James and the Giant Peach and Coraline.

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All properties are better associated and credited to the original creators.

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He was born in November 30th, 1952, to Charles, Henry Selik, June.

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73 years ago.

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Yep.

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Growing up in New Jersey, young Henry's fascination with stop-motion grew from watching Lutty,

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Roenigers, the Adventures of Prince Ockman and any film featuring the animation of Ray

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Harryhausen.

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Do you know who Ray Harryhausen is?

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I don't.

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Do you know Clash of the Titans?

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I don't.

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Jason the Argonauts.

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I don't.

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You probably...

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He is the guy who is behind like a lot of the famous like stop-motion in like those old

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sword and sandals movies.

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Okay.

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Whenever you see the people like sword fighting skeletons.

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Yeah.

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That's Ray Harryhausen.

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Cool, huh?

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Yeah.

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Always go to the skeletons.

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Yes, he studied the science for a year at Rutgers University and switching to an

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art major at Syracuse and studied at the Central St. Martin's College of Art and Design.

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But what really changed the trajectory of his career is when he enrolled in Cal Arts as

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one of the first students to partake in Disney's new character animation program.

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Do you know about this?

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About Cal Arts?

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The Cal Arts Animation Program.

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No, not in depth.

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So this was an animation program that Disney had just started because it was a way for

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them to kind of train a lot of their animators to...

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What year is this?

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Like he's a teen?

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I think he's a college age chap.

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This would have been around the 70s.

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Okay.

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Yeah, Disney had put together this program to kind of help with their animation department.

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Instead of just getting animators and not really knowing how they're trained, they're like,

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we can control how these artists can animate and do it in a Disney style.

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And they actually brought in a lot of the old Disney animators to teach these younger folk

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how to animate for Disney.

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Aww, back when creativity really mattered.

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So Henry Selik was one of those first people.

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Amongst those in his peers, there was Jerry Rees.

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He directed the brief little toaster.

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There's Tim Burton.

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We all know of Batman fame.

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There's Brad Bird.

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Help me.

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The Incredibles.

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Edna Mode.

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Oh.

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Well, he directed the whole movie by...

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Yeah, I'm on board.

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But he also did the Arnjoyant, Raditouille.

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I love the Arnjoyant.

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John Lasseter.

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Toy Story.

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Yes.

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Michael Guillermo.

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He was the art director of Polkhanus in Frozen.

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Yeah, I knew that one.

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Yeah.

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Gary Truesdale.

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He directed Beauty and the Beast in "Hunter Back of Notre Dame" in "Lantis."

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Hell yeah.

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Yeah, so like...

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What class?

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Within that room.

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In that classroom, created the Disney Renaissance without even realizing it.

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Yeah.

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He was trying to think of cool kids from our class.

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No one's listening.

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And I'm looking at him.

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We did it.

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We're...

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We're doing it.

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Cool.

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That's the class that Henry Selik comes from.

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Could you imagine like the other kids in that class?

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Yeah.

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That's a lot of pressure.

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So much pressure.

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So after graduating, Selik then worked as an animator for hire, getting to start as a

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in-betweener for Pete's dragon and the small one, he continued to work as an uncredited

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animator for the fox in the hound, Winnie the Pooh and the day of Eor.

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Tigger too.

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I'm sorry.

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There's Mickey's Christmas Carol, the black culldron, the great and the great mouse detective.

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Oh!

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There's not enough love.

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I'm sorry.

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I'm gonna get on a teeny tiny mouse-sized soapbox, but there is.

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I forgot we are talking a lot about Disney.

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I feel like we don't talk about mouse detective enough.

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Mouse detective scared the butt Jesus out of me as a child.

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It's so good and it totaled up.

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Mm-hmm.

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He was a storyboard artist for the very first tron that's one that came out in 1982.

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Never seen it.

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Return to Oz.

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That's the creepy one, right?

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Yeah, it's the really creepy one with like the rollerbladers with like hand stills.

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Yeah, no thanks.

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The stuff nightmares are made of.

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The last credited thing that he animated for he was a in-betweener for who framed Roger

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Rabbit.

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Hey.

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Yeah.

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What a trajectory.

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Yeah.

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So outside of Disney, Henry would work on his own projects and begin directing.

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While he was at Kellart's, he created two shorts.

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There was phases and tube tails.

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He later created his own short, C-Pige in 1982.

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He directed a lot of stop-motion commercials for Rich Crackers in Pillsbury.

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He animated a six-minute short for MTV called Slow Bob and the Lower Dimensions along with

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a handful of the logo animations.

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I don't know if you remember like between like music videos.

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MTV would have like those claymation logos that would pop up like that was done by Henry

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Selik.

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I had thought about that recently because I watched a what a nerd as I say this out loud.

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I watched a making of the new Apple TV logo.

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, oh yeah, yeah.

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It's all practical.

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Yeah, it's really cool.

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It got me thinking about like practical logos of the past.

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New Apple TV logo, if you've seen it, hunt the percent practical and I just am fascinated.

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Apple sponsors us.

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So.

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So Selik would finally get his big break when he was asked by an old friend from Kellart's

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to direct a little film about Christmas.

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Nightmare Before Christmas.

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That was actually based on a three-page poem Tim Burton had written while he was employed

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at Disney Feature Animation.

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The poem was inspired by Ranking and Bass Christmas Specials, How the Grinchdale Christmas, and the

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poem A Visit From Saint Nicholas, which is better known as, "Twas Night Before Christmas."

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Cool.

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The intent was to adapt the poem into a TV special narrated by Vincent Price because

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it's Tim Burton.

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Yeah.

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Tim Burton just wants Vincent Price and everything he does.

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We all want Vincent Price and everything.

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Mm-hmm.

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If the TV special didn't work, they were thinking of making it into possibly a children's book.

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With Vincent Price.

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With Vincent Price, always.

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After the success of Tim Burton's first short film, Vincent in 1982, Disney gave the green

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light to develop the poem into a 30-minute holiday TV special.

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In collaboration with Rick Henrich, they created Storyboards, Concept Art, and Sculpted Character

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Models.

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Henry Selic was shown their work in the progress while developing the special as the production

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grew.

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Disney got cold feet about the project stating that it might be too weird for the company.

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Actually, if you ever look at the, like, I know Disney has, like, now owned it, but you

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can even see it when Nightmare first came out.

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They don't have the Disney logo at the very moment.

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They don't.

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Which is kind of like their distribution company that they put out to make it seem like...

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You're going to feel out the waters with this logo.

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00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,200
Yeah.

259
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,400
If it doesn't feel like Disney, they're just like, "Touch snow and it goes."

260
00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,120
Honestly, though, who cares?

261
00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:59,040
Like, I'm all for, like, throwing a creative chance out there.

262
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,040
Yeah.

263
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:01,040
And look at it now.

264
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,040
Yep.

265
00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,040
They changed one of their theme park rides for it every year.

266
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:18,040
So they shut down the production in Tim Burton.

267
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:23,440
The only problem is that Disney owned the rides to Nightmare before Christmas.

268
00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:27,800
So it turns out Tim Burton, getting fired from Disney, was the best thing to ever happen

269
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,480
to his career.

270
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:34,080
After escaping the mouse, he made a deal with the rabbit at W.B. to direct a peewee-speak

271
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,080
adventure, Beeljuice and Batman.

272
00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:42,480
Burton's success caught the attention of Walt Disney's studio chairman and this podcast

273
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,640
reoccurring character, Jeffrey Katzenberg.

274
00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,920
They dug through the archives and found Nightmare before Christmas and they figured they

275
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:55,240
could have resurrected and hopefully cash in on some of that Burton's success that W.B.

276
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,840
was getting.

277
00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:02,520
They also justified the project thinking that it could show off Disney's animation abilities.

278
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,080
What they did with Hoofram Roger Rabbit.

279
00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:07,640
Walt Disney had a Tim Burton project lined up.

280
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,440
They unfortunately did not get the man himself because he was committed to W.B. to direct

281
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,000
Batman returns and Ed Wood.

282
00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,660
Also Burton didn't want to commit himself through the painstakingly slow process of stop

283
00:13:20,660 --> 00:13:21,660
motion.

284
00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:22,660
Yeah.

285
00:13:22,660 --> 00:13:26,320
There's a level of patience that comes to stop motion that I just, I was not born with.

286
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:27,320
Yeah.

287
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:28,640
You have to think very differently.

288
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:31,360
I don't even fully understand how they do that.

289
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:36,440
I get it and I think it's fascinating and it's one of those art forms that I hope never

290
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,080
dies out because it is truly an art form.

291
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,760
There's a museum in New York, which I'm forgetting which one it was now, but they had the

292
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,760
stop motion Pinocchio exhibit when we were there.

293
00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:51,320
They had created like the frame by frame so you could see it.

294
00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:53,000
It was so cool.

295
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,240
It made me want to watch the movie.

296
00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,240
Burton was there during much of the pre-production.

297
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:05,040
He helped adapt to Paul and Burton approach then Beetlejuice writer Michael McDowell who

298
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:10,040
convinced him that this should be a musical in which Tim knew just who to call Danny

299
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,040
Hoffman.

300
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,040
No.

301
00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,040
Oingo Boingo.

302
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,960
My brain was stuck on a Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Joe and I was like what?

303
00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:19,680
Did you say Oingo Boingo?

304
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:20,680
Yeah.

305
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,920
Danny Hoffman used to be the lead singer of Oingo Boingo.

306
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:25,880
Well, I learned something new today.

307
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:26,880
Yeah.

308
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,200
I thought that was just common knowledge.

309
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:29,200
I guess not.

310
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,200
I think he won the song.

311
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,040
Oh, you knew the band but not a song?

312
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:35,360
Who does Dead Man's Party?

313
00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:36,360
That's not Oingo Boingo.

314
00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:37,360
Oh, yeah.

315
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:38,360
That's him.

316
00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:39,360
It is?

317
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,360
Featured on the Gong Show.

318
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:41,360
Long time ago.

319
00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,360
I really like Dead Man's Party.

320
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,400
It's a Halloween song, but I listened to it here around.

321
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:47,400
So yeah.

322
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,640
He called up Danny Hoffman to help with the writing the songs.

323
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:55,160
The two collaborated to create a rough story outline and wrote most of the songs.

324
00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,240
Caroline Thompson, who wrote Edward Sizzarhands.

325
00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,800
She was actually dating Danny Hoffman at the time.

326
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:06,120
She got a hold of the material and put everything into proper script format and she actually

327
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:07,640
fleshed out Sally's character.

328
00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:08,640
Bless her.

329
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:09,640
Mm-hmm.

330
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:13,400
Like I mentioned before, Burton didn't have the time to direct Nightmare, but from the

331
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:19,720
sounds of it, he didn't really seem interested in doing the production and that's when he

332
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:24,240
brought in his buddy from Cal Arts Henry Selik to direct the film and he trusted him to

333
00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:30,040
do the stop-motion animation style that very few people in the world knew how to accomplish.

334
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:35,960
After Selik was hired Peter Schneider, who is the head of Disney Animation, told him that

335
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,660
it's a gift to Tim Burton.

336
00:15:37,660 --> 00:15:40,720
We don't really care whether or not the succeeds or not.

337
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:42,960
It's just a way to have him to come back to the studio.

338
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:48,520
Which is kind of an odd thing that Selik knew, but in a way it also kind of like relieved

339
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,080
a lot of pressure from him.

340
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,520
He's like, it doesn't have to be like a big movie, so if it flops.

341
00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,560
We just want you to make something creative and have fun with it.

342
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,560
Is kind of a blessing in a curse?

343
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,440
But mostly they just wanted Tim Burton back.

344
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:05,240
I don't want to dwell too much on Nightmare just because there's a lot of material on the

345
00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,240
subject, but we do need to know that Selik was the one that they're on set every single

346
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,040
day directing the movie.

347
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:16,920
Tim Burton, according to Selik, visited the set a total of maybe ten times.

348
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:22,440
Disney decided to title the film Tim Burton's The Nightmare Before Christmas, about three

349
00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:24,880
weeks before the film premiered.

350
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,320
My whole life I was always like, oh, it was directed and written like it was a Tim Burton

351
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:29,320
classic.

352
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:30,320
That's how they sold it.

353
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,400
Like they did really well with the marketing to be like this is a Tim Burton property.

354
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,520
From the imagination of Tim Burton comes The Nightmare Before Christmas.

355
00:16:40,520 --> 00:16:41,520
And that is it.

356
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,280
No one else did this.

357
00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:47,600
Well because that comes with a very certain aesthetic, and I feel like if they were like,

358
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,320
a top nope every time I had a Henry Selik film, people would be like, what?

359
00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,680
And now whenever Henry Selik does any stop motion films, everyone looks at it and they're

360
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,520
like, oh, it's a Tim Burton film.

361
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,640
Yeah, I always thought when it first came out, I was like, oh, a Coraline's Tim Burton.

362
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:04,640
Yeah.

363
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:09,200
And kind of anything that's like through Leica now, like you look at that and you just

364
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,840
kind of assume like, oh, box trolls, that's Tim Burton, right?

365
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:14,800
Oh, I feel bad.

366
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:15,800
Yeah.

367
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,200
Whoopsie do it all.

368
00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,100
Although this took the attention away from Selik's hard work, he ultimately understood why Disney

369
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:24,280
attached Burton's name to the title.

370
00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,240
Surely everyone will know the name.

371
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,240
Henry Selik in the next film that he directs.

372
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:35,560
So after the success of Nightmare, Selik was asked to direct an adaptation of role dolls

373
00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:37,640
James of the Giant Peach.

374
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:42,640
The idea of making the book into a film has been around since around the 80s and it was

375
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,640
pitched by Joe Rampft.

376
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:49,800
Joe was another alumni of the Disney character animation at Kell Arts.

377
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,440
He was, he was an animator for Disney and was one of the founding members of Pixar.

378
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,480
You may better know him as Hemlich, the catapillar.

379
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,080
Oh, and a Bruce Lee.

380
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:02,800
I'm a beautiful little butterfly.

381
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,280
I am a cute little Bamberbe.

382
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,480
You're right, come.

383
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:09,920
He's Weezy, the penguin in Toy Story 2.

384
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:10,920
Oh, oh yeah.

385
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:15,200
Mr. Shag looked in the toy box and found me an extra speaker.

386
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:16,600
Why, you're 12.

387
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,800
And he's a juck, the shrimp in Finding Nemo.

388
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,800
Clean the tank.

389
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:22,280
Well, he is clean.

390
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,960
At first he pitched the film to Disney animation, but it refused because the material was too

391
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:27,960
weird.

392
00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,560
James in the Giant Peach was too weird after they just did...

393
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,560
Too weird.

394
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,840
And the logistics of animating the adaptation was going to be very expensive.

395
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,680
Yeah, that's fair.

396
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,920
When Pixar was going through their ideas of what their first film should be, Joe was

397
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,880
the one who pitched James in the Giant Peach before they decided on Toy Story.

398
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,760
Joe did, yeah.

399
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,960
Joe did share his love for the book with Selic.

400
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:59,040
And even though he liked the book, he understood the difficulties it would take to adapt the

401
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,040
novel.

402
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,360
Another obstacle was obtaining the rights for the book.

403
00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:09,400
While he was alive, Roldall did not like most of the adaptations of his work, especially

404
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,480
Willy Wonka in the Chalk of Factory with Gene Walder.

405
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:13,480
Oh!

406
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,480
Part of it had to do...

407
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:15,480
I know why.

408
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,480
Do you know why?

409
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,600
It veers from the book.

410
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:20,600
It's not just that.

411
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:21,600
Like a lot.

412
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:28,240
So Roldall, when he was writing a lot of his novels, he was being asked to adapt a lot

413
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,680
of his stories for movies.

414
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,680
And he was actually asked to write the screenplay for...

415
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,040
And then Gene Walder was just like, "I'm not fun with it!"

416
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,040
No, it wasn't that.

417
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,720
It was a lot of the like executives who were just like, "We need to do a rewrite on

418
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:44,720
this."

419
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:50,120
And they got like an unknown writer, like the very first time that he did anything he didn't

420
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:51,120
know.

421
00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:53,120
But the executives like kept them separate.

422
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:54,120
So...

423
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,120
Oh, sneaky.

424
00:19:55,120 --> 00:20:00,760
So this guy was like rewriting Willy Wonka behind Roldall's back.

425
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,360
And then they used the rewritten script and said for the final production.

426
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,120
I have so many feelings on that because I really do love that movie.

427
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:18,200
But I remember when the reboot came out, everyone was like, "This is not the classic we

428
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:19,200
love."

429
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,760
No, probably because it was drawing up from the original book.

430
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,760
Yeah, it was actually much closer to the book.

431
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:24,760
It's understandable.

432
00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:30,040
I wish that there was a way in the industry where it's like, "Hey, this idea is good.

433
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:36,760
I'm going to take a hard left and make it my own and be like, it was inspired by."

434
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,680
Like let's find a way to give everybody credit.

435
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,600
Yeah, which we'll see in a later.

436
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:42,600
No!

437
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:43,600
Selfic project.

438
00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:45,120
Look at the accident on Segway.

439
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:52,760
Now the only adaptation that he truly liked, Roldall, was the 1989 straight to video animation

440
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,680
feature of the BFG.

441
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,680
Animated feature of the...

442
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:58,200
You have never seen this before.

443
00:20:58,200 --> 00:20:59,200
No!

444
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,800
Barely anyone has ever seen this.

445
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,400
It's big, friendly giant.

446
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,400
Big, friendly giant.

447
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,480
Because that's never what I think it is.

448
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,480
No.

449
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,360
No, wait, I have seen this.

450
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,720
Not in like a repeated way, but there's some memory recall happening.

451
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,720
Yeah, it's definitely like on the bookshelves of...

452
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,920
Libraries across America.

453
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,800
That are just like cash in it on just like it being Roldall.

454
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,320
But yeah, it was just straight to the video.

455
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,080
But apparently it was very faithful to the story.

456
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,080
And that's the only reason why he liked it so much.

457
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:30,080
Good for them.

458
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,680
Now, after Roldall's death in 1990, his was...

459
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,440
I don't know, it was like when was it?

460
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:36,840
This is Oiphlicity.

461
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,320
She ran the estate and was left in charge of Dull's intellectual property.

462
00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,760
And in 1992, she offered the rights to James and the Giant Peach.

463
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:50,680
And he got the attention of Steven Spielberg, Danny DeVito, and Disney.

464
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,600
We know that Danny DeVito goes on to do Matilda.

465
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:54,600
He does?

466
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:55,600
Yes.

467
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:56,600
Again, wonderful movie.

468
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:57,600
I don't know how close it is.

469
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,760
I've never actually read Matilda.

470
00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:03,080
And then obviously, Celic goes on to do James and the Giant Peach.

471
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,800
Did Spielberg ever actually touch Roldall?

472
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:06,800
The BFG.

473
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,200
Oh, that CGI one was Spielberg?

474
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:09,680
That was Spielberg, yeah.

475
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,320
That was around the time that he did the Adventures of Tintin.

476
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,640
There's like a pocket of Spielberg that I missed out on.

477
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,680
I'm the JAWS-ETI, I guess, action movie.

478
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,440
Like I skipped our era of Spielberg.

479
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,480
I went from the classics to the modern day.

480
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:30,240
But yeah, that was around the time where everyone was kind of messing around with like

481
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,040
CG animation, exclusively.

482
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,520
And so Disney first hired Brian Rosen, who had actually finished-

483
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:37,840
Also, "Winds of Cal Arts"?

484
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:42,600
No, but he finished producing a little non-movie called "Ferngully."

485
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,120
[GASP]

486
00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:50,080
Oh, "Ferngully" is like, might be my favorite animated movie of all.

487
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,840
Like above-tangled.

488
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:56,320
I love "Ferngully."

489
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,840
My name is Bette.

490
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,160
You know what's funny?

491
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,400
I hate for like, "You see?"

492
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,640
I love that that's in your notes.

493
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:11,240
I will say that around the house, randomly-

494
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:12,520
Unapologetically.

495
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,280
Oh, never gonna apologize.

496
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,080
Personally, my favorite Robin Williams role.

497
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,280
My name is Bette.

498
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:26,040
[MUSIC]

499
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,480
We're talking about James and the Giant.

500
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,760
Ferngully.

501
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:30,800
James and the Giant Beat.

502
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,960
To write the first draft was Dennis Porter, which Disney did not approve,

503
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,120
especially the part where the sharks were Nazis.

504
00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,400
I'm sorry.

505
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:39,440
What was that?

506
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,480
The sharks were Nazis, you know, the usual.

507
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,200
There's Carrie Karpatsrick, the writer for "The Rusk of his Down Under"

508
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,280
and Bruce Droll wrote "Ghost" and "Jacob's Ladder."

509
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:55,040
They were hired to write separate drafts in which Karpatsrick's draft was chosen.

510
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,840
In the draft, he did some liberties to the adaptation from the book.

511
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:04,320
And James Aunts were not killed by the Rolling Peach, and they show up at the end of the film.

512
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:10,060
He removed the silkworm character and instead it used Mrs. Spider's webbing to capture the

513
00:24:10,060 --> 00:24:11,360
seagulls.

514
00:24:11,360 --> 00:24:16,160
And then to write the music for the film, Selik suggested Elvis Costello.

515
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,000
But Disney thought it would be too weird.

516
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,000
Everything's too weird for Disney.

517
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,320
So they went with a safer suggestion.

518
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:29,600
Did the most prolific composer for Disney, Randy Newman?

519
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:50,360
Randy Newman does James in the giant peach.

520
00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:51,880
I pay attention to credits.

521
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,840
I watch them all the way through when I see a movie.

522
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,920
My brain does not lock away certain things.

523
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,000
Do you know what film he just finished with Disney?

524
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,000
Toy Story?

525
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,200
He did finish Toy Story with them just before going on to James in the giant peach.

526
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,200
What a ride.

527
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,200
Yeah.

528
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,120
Selik didn't want him for that exact reason.

529
00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,160
The lead singer of XTC, Andy Patrick.

530
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,520
He actually wrote four songs for the film.

531
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,120
They were titled "All I Dream of" as a friend.

532
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:24,160
Let us bug you, Stinking Rich Song, and everything will be alright.

533
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:25,960
None of them were used for the final film.

534
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:27,960
I was going to say I don't want to play any of those.

535
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:28,960
Yeah.

536
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,480
Before filming began, there was a debate if the film was going to be a live action or stop

537
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:34,480
motion.

538
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,480
Both.

539
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,480
What's your hands together?

540
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,280
Originally Selik wanted James to be live action while the characters around him would

541
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,280
be stop motion.

542
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,320
Ultimately, they settled on what we have today.

543
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:53,120
With the live action, frames the film, and there's about 40 minutes of just stop motion animation

544
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,120
for James in the giant peach.

545
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,120
I have no notes.

546
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:56,120
I like that movie.

547
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,120
Of all the Henry Selik films.

548
00:25:58,120 --> 00:25:59,920
That was the one that I grew up on the most.

549
00:25:59,920 --> 00:26:02,640
That's the one that I watched the most over the nightmare.

550
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,240
I mean, Corline's my favorite, but that obviously didn't come to later for us.

551
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,920
I definitely am a James in the giant peach over Nightmare before Christmas, which I know

552
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,240
is like, people love Nightmare before Christmas.

553
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:18,400
And I get it, but like spooky insects on a big peach, I'm there.

554
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,240
Yeah, it's great.

555
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:31,840
There was a third film that was planned under Skellington Productions.

556
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,840
The production company was made by Selik Ann Burton for Nightmare and Peach.

557
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,840
What did duo?

558
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:44,400
Also, did you notice that Jack Skellington is in James in the giant peach?

559
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:45,400
Yeah.

560
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,640
He's one of the Ghost Pirates.

561
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,040
There's the cinematic universe I want.

562
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:53,920
So there was going to be another book adaptation.

563
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,040
This one was called Twits in the Upside Down House by Carol Hughes.

564
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:59,040
Good old tip.

565
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:04,280
Tim Burton was going to produce Disney was again going to distribute the film.

566
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:09,760
Henry Selik was hired to direct the film under the production company Miramax, who actually

567
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,760
he had signed a three-picture deal with them.

568
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:16,360
And the script was going to be adapted and written by Steven Soderbergh.

569
00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:18,920
Do you know who Steven Soderberg is?

570
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:19,920
Demummy?

571
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,920
No, Steven Summers.

572
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:22,920
So confident.

573
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,120
Soderbergh is the social network?

574
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,360
Nope, still Steven.

575
00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:29,720
Just tell me who Steven Soderbergh is.

576
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:30,720
Oceans.

577
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,720
Thank you.

578
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:32,720
I didn't know.

579
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:33,720
Magic Mike.

580
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:34,720
Logan Lucky.

581
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,200
You had me at Oceans.

582
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,200
Oh, yeah.

583
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,200
Anyway, at the time he was known as the guy who wrote Sex Lies and a videotape.

584
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,800
He wrote for King of the Hill, the Underneath.

585
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,120
And there was his first independent movie, Skitsopolis.

586
00:27:49,120 --> 00:27:54,000
So the book was published the same year as the film was originally going to be scheduled

587
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:56,040
to be released in 1996.

588
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:02,440
I don't know much about the film or how it would have differed from the book, but I

589
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:06,520
did find a short snopsys of the book on Goodreads.

590
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,520
On Toots?

591
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:08,520
On Toots.

592
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,320
Just so we get an idea of like what Toots is about.

593
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,000
Toots can't remember her mother and her father has never been able to forget.

594
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:21,200
Since her death, he spent more and more time immersed in his stamp collection and less and

595
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,320
less time with Toots.

596
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:28,720
It is one particularly lonely afternoon when Toots is practicing handstands that she first

597
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:34,040
sees a fairy walking across the living room ceiling before she knows what happens.

598
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:40,200
Toots finds herself reduced to the size of a mouse and is in an upside down world where

599
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,760
hardworking fairies protect the house against evil sprites and anxious goblins.

600
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,400
Oh my God, what a beautiful stop motion story.

601
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:55,200
Toots must battle with Good and evil, both outside and inside herself before finding

602
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:00,000
her way back to earth and renewing her love for her widowed father.

603
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:05,560
Which is like, this is like, oh widowed father, I hope we to photo.

604
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,680
This is like right up Henry Selik's alley, which is like, and Tim Burton.

605
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:16,800
And Tim Burton is like normal ordinary person or child goes into a fantasy world and they

606
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,800
have to like find their way back home.

607
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,480
And like the upside down of it is actually really fun.

608
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,240
Like an upside down these days.

609
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,360
This would have been a really good movie.

610
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,800
Yeah, it still would.

611
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,000
Well, we're on this train of like children's entertainment.

612
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:33,000
Yeah.

613
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:38,600
I do think we're kind of lacking like minecraft was for the whole family.

614
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,840
But I often think when I like see an animated movie, it doesn't have the same like feels

615
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,200
they like, I don't need the dirty joke.

616
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,080
But they used to feel for like they were for the whole family.

617
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,040
And now it feels like you're either seeing an adult movie or a kid movie.

618
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,720
And I'm like, bring back the end between us.

619
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,520
I mean, that's kind of the idea of, especially Disney and the Renaissance era, which I still

620
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,680
think they're kind of doing now whenever they bring in big name actors in there.

621
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:09,080
They'll oftentimes bring in an actor that older audiences will know and recognize.

622
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:15,400
So for example, you have something like cars where you have Paul Newman as one of the voice

623
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,200
actors in there.

624
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:19,200
Yeah.

625
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:20,680
He was the car.

626
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,920
So Paul Newman was only really interested in racing cars at that time.

627
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,640
When you say he was the car, he was lightning McQueen.

628
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,640
No, he was, he wasn't ketchup.

629
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:30,640
No, that was good.

630
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:31,640
Good job.

631
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,440
I was going to say that's, that's Marley and me, the Wilson.

632
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:35,440
Luke Wilson's brother.

633
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:36,440
Oh, Owen.

634
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,440
Yeah.

635
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,840
I flip up, flop him.

636
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:39,840
That was him.

637
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,360
Oh, the wizard and say police car.

638
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,360
Yeah.

639
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:49,000
Which Paul Newman at that time in his career, he was only interested in racing cars.

640
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,720
He didn't know I want to do acting anymore.

641
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,440
And when Pixar came up to him, be like, do you want to be in a movie?

642
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,800
He's like, no, it's like, but you're a car.

643
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,720
He's like, tell me more.

644
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:01,040
Just kidding, sign me out.

645
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,200
And that was the very last role he ever did.

646
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,200
God rest him.

647
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,600
I was like, I don't know how to, may he continue off into the sunset?

648
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,240
Down Route 66.

649
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:17,400
So ultimately this film, Tuts, was canceled before it began due to the underperformance of

650
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,600
James and the giant peach in the box office.

651
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,760
James and the giant peach didn't do well in the box office.

652
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:23,760
No.

653
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,240
I guess to be fair, I don't remember seeing it in theaters.

654
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,760
I wonder what their VHS sales were.

655
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:30,760
Probably much larger.

656
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,760
Through the roof.

657
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:38,000
Or even like something that we don't have really nowadays is like rental blockbuster.

658
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,800
Yeah, like, just say it.

659
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:47,000
But no, not just blockbuster, but like, there was like an afterlife for movies to continue

660
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,400
to make money.

661
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:54,200
And it was later on like, it wasn't just the box office, but it was video rentals and home

662
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,720
ownership as well.

663
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,320
And for a long time, it was like just video rentals.

664
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,400
I will say having worked with children, rentals are still a thing.

665
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,640
Yeah, it's not as big as what it used to be.

666
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:10,600
But that was another way for like studios to kind of be like, well, it didn't do that

667
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,360
well in the box office, but there is still kind of a second life.

668
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:20,260
So Selig did pitch the film to Fox and was discouraged to go on making the film because Fox did

669
00:32:20,260 --> 00:32:26,360
ask him to title the film Tim Burton's Toots and the Upside Down House.

670
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,760
Selig fought backsting that Tim Burton wouldn't have anything to do with the production.

671
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,560
And fortunately, the film did not proceed.

672
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,920
He's now forever cursed to be like, I'm the guy who makes Tim Burton stuff.

673
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,560
Like it's not even his stuff anymore.

674
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:42,760
It's like, right.

675
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,920
That's hard when you are trying to be a creative person of your own identity.

676
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:47,920
Yeah.

677
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,520
Selig moved on to his next project.

678
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:55,560
And out of nowhere, Selig was sneakily given a copy of the comic book Dark Town.

679
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:01,240
It was written by Kaja Blackley and was illustrated by Vanessa Chong.

680
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,120
Only one issue was published out of the 12 issues that it was originally planned.

681
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,680
There's only one issue to this day.

682
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,560
Supposedly, a fan of the book.

683
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:16,400
I don't know how credible this is, but they said that this was Tom Bags Sachi.

684
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,800
He was from the chasing dragons production and a member of the San Francisco animation

685
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:27,080
community who gave the book to Henry Selig's producer Denise Rodna, who then passed it

686
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:28,080
on to Selig.

687
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:33,160
Kaja Blackley, who is the author of Dark Town, had no idea that this was happening.

688
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,720
And before he knew it, Selig was seeking the rights to adapt the book into a film.

689
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,120
Selig loved the book.

690
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:44,560
And even wrote to Kaja stating, "I'd never felt any project was closer to my sensibilities

691
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:45,960
than this one.

692
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,480
The original plan was to stay as faithful to the book as possible and keep its dark serious

693
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:52,480
tones.

694
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,440
But the film eventually devolved into the film Monkey Bone."

695
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:57,440
What?

696
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,760
And we're going to figure out that mystery after these advertised bins.

697
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:11,680
And we're back.

698
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,520
Selig took the story and pitched it to Fox Studios.

699
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:22,600
It was Greenlit under Bill Mechanic, who is the chief executive officer of Fox Film Entertainment.

700
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:28,080
Now it's very rare that I like bring up like who approved all this, but I kind of wanted

701
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,800
to go down Bill Mechanic's career almost.

702
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:40,000
This guy was essential to the 90s into the odds, into film entertainment.

703
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:45,400
Because the stuff that he Greenlit, while he was there, he did castaway Titanic.

704
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,320
X-Men, Mulan Rouge, Independence Day, Ice Age, Entrapment, Big Mama's House, My Norder Your

705
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,520
Port, What Lies Beneath, Never Minkiss.

706
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,000
There's something about Mary Braveheart.

707
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,080
Boys Don't Cry, Mrs. Doubtfire, Speed, True Lies, Die Hard with Evengeance, The Full Monty,

708
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:03,960
Dr. Doolittle, The X Files Me, Myself and Irene, The Thin Red Line, Ever After Romeo,

709
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,600
Plus Juliet, Fight Club, and Star Wars, The Phantom Menace.

710
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,080
And that's just a few of the movies that he--

711
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,560
You never heard of any of them.

712
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,640
Like he really shaped cinema at that time.

713
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,960
So he looked at Monkey Bone and was just like, yeah, we're going to do this.

714
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:26,800
He took a lot of big swings and for many of those movies, like they succeeded and became

715
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:27,800
what they--

716
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,520
The 90s was a peak time for cinema.

717
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:37,000
I know that everyone will die on the hill that the 70s and 80s was like, when movies were

718
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:38,000
great.

719
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,760
If you listened to that list, they are all over the map.

720
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,160
It's no wonder that we grew up and were like, I want to do the hats.

721
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,160
Yeah.

722
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,120
Look out there just about the movies that came out solely in 1999.

723
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:57,120
I feel like '97 through '99 was formative for a lot of us.

724
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,120
Yeah.

725
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:05,400
'Cause Titanic is '97, which was formative for many of us, on many different levels.

726
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,920
Throughout the development of the film, a lot of silly and ridiculous ideas started to overtake

727
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,560
much of the serious ideas.

728
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,920
There were serious ideas in Monkey Bone?

729
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:19,280
They were serious ideas in the book, but the silly ideas started to take over.

730
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,280
Uh-huh.

731
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Now at first, it seemed like a lot of studio notes, meddling in the creative inputs.

732
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,760
And Monkey Bone is what year?

733
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,440
That is 2001.

734
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,200
So we're post the mummy.

735
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:33,200
Kind of.

736
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,440
I don't fully know and maybe we can speculate on where this is in the timeline, because I'll

737
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:39,600
explain.

738
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,040
But it is around the mummy.

739
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,720
It seemed like the studio was meddling in it, but it actually is quite the opposite.

740
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:51,000
And there was an interview that I found with the film's writer Sam Hamm, who was the writer

741
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,640
of the first 1989 Batman for Starlogue magazine.

742
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:59,880
And he reveals that a lot of the divergence actually came from Selik and himself.

743
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:05,200
Quote, "We bounced around for a long time about the fantasy world population.

744
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,200
I should look like.

745
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,240
Are they people who can't sleep?

746
00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:09,240
Monsters?

747
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:15,400
We had an inspiration where there were retired TV commercial pitchmen like Speedy, Elke

748
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,400
Selzer and S.O.

749
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:18,400
Tiger."

750
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,360
That reminds me of eternity.

751
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:24,680
All the characters flowing around in pop culture, mythology, who had been discarded by

752
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:25,880
their sponsors.

753
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,880
Then we realized getting the rights would be a total nightmare.

754
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:36,400
So we settled for using mythological creatures who were hybrid parts, animal and human parts.

755
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:42,840
So there is one character who looks like actual real life Joe Campbell.

756
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,800
So it seemed like they were still kind of in there.

757
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,360
More from the Starlogue magazine interview, Monkey Bone was a brand new creation.

758
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,560
The guy in the comic book didn't have a sidekick, and our concept was Nightmare-Shet first,

759
00:37:55,560 --> 00:38:00,520
because Henry and I thought it would be a great, suspenseful horror story.

760
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:05,160
But the more we discussed it to flesh out the plot, the more we cracked each other up.

761
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,600
We finally realized we should just go with the impulse and see what we could get out of

762
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:10,920
in terms of comedy.

763
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:18,600
Now in the book, the main character is Jacques de Bredrock, not Stu Miley, which is the

764
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:19,600
Brendan Fraser character.

765
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:20,600
He's Smiley.

766
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:21,600
Yes, Smiley.

767
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,400
Smiley, which is Brendan Fraser's character in the movie.

768
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:31,800
More from the interview, it was about a puppeteer in a coma who becomes one of his own puppets.

769
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:37,400
His wife is going to pull the plug on him after 12 hours, and the series premise was that

770
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,680
each issue represented one hour of his life.

771
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:47,140
It was all about the stuff he does in the fantasy and other world, where he finds himself

772
00:38:47,140 --> 00:38:49,480
reincarnated as a puppet.

773
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:55,480
We were entranced by the idea and of a guy in a coma trying to fight his way back to consciousness,

774
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,200
so we started investigating the rights.

775
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:03,960
We found out that Kaja had loosely plotted some stuff out, but had never gotten around

776
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,560
to doing the rest of the story.

777
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,160
Henry and I took the central premise and constructed the story around it.

778
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,640
So there you go, that's the idea of you take the original idea and premise and then you

779
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,040
just kind of like, farts and make it your own.

780
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:18,540
Throw a monkey at it.

781
00:39:18,540 --> 00:39:19,540
Essentially, yeah.

782
00:39:19,540 --> 00:39:22,120
Yeah, because that sounds so different than monkey bone.

783
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,120
It is very different.

784
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,280
I think I like dark town better.

785
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,100
And if you look at the art for dark town, you're just like, it is nowhere near what monkey

786
00:39:30,100 --> 00:39:31,100
bone is.

787
00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:34,760
I actually can see the like color space.

788
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,360
Like that looks like the bartender, but it's very canrycelic.

789
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,600
Another one from because I just really love this article from Starlog.

790
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,440
So we debated a long time that the character should be a bird, a mythical animal, and at one

791
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:53,120
point we're calling him a schmoll, half shrew, half mull.

792
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:54,120
A schmoll?

793
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:56,800
Should have gone with the schmoll.

794
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:00,280
We just wanted some sort of cartoony animal sidekick.

795
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:06,380
It wound up being a monkey because monkeys lend themselves best to parody and human behavior.

796
00:40:06,380 --> 00:40:09,560
And monkeys are funny.

797
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:14,760
It seems that Henry Selik was fulfilling his wish that he wanted with James and the Giant

798
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,200
Peach in which James would be the live action character.

799
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,880
And this is kind of his chance to make like his Roger Rabbit movie.

800
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,360
Before Brendan Frazier was cast Ben Stiller was actually considered for the role.

801
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:28,360
Wow.

802
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:29,360
Yeah.

803
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:33,440
It was reported that he couldn't film due to scheduling conflicts with mystery men, but

804
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,340
Selik has stated in a later interview that Ben Stiller actually has a team of writers that

805
00:40:38,340 --> 00:40:44,280
look over the script ahead of time and Selik was fearful of his movie being completely changed

806
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,240
had he hired him.

807
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:51,400
Another alternate casting was Paul Rubens for the voice of monkey bone, P.W. Herman.

808
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:52,400
Yeah, no, I know.

809
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,040
I think that actually would have been really good.

810
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,080
In alternate universes of monkey bone, there's not really a bad combo.

811
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:04,880
And the reason why Paul Rubens wanted to do this is because he was originally asked to voice

812
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:05,880
Roger Rabbit.

813
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:07,200
Oh, yes sir.

814
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,920
But wouldn't he be more helpful if I started to get along with you?

815
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:15,680
Because what if maybe you got to get a dissimilar score lock or something?

816
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:17,520
Oh, okay.

817
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:21,600
And he turned it down because he didn't think it was going to be a good movie.

818
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,320
And because he regretted that he's like, oh, I want to do this.

819
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:25,320
Whoopsie, dude.

820
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,640
But Paul Rubens was not cast as monkey bone.

821
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:31,680
Instead they got this I did not expect.

822
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:32,680
John Tatturo.

823
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:33,680
Woo!

824
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,680
Hi, for a little singing, a little dancing.

825
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,480
And of course some of the biggest bashing of my very own creator, Mr. Stu, Pete Muppie.

826
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:43,280
Yeah, I did Google who it was.

827
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,720
I did at one point think that it was Paul Rubens.

828
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:50,240
And then I was just like, didn't know the name, but I knew the face.

829
00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:52,640
Yeah, John Tatturo, I did not expect.

830
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,120
No, not at all.

831
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:55,120
But he does a really good job.

832
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:58,080
I know they like pitched up his voice for sure and post.

833
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,080
Maybe not.

834
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,080
Maybe he can throw his voice like that.

835
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:01,080
Oh, that's true.

836
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,560
He is an actor.

837
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:10,840
There is also talk about making a full-sized Silicon Stu Miley for when he goes into the underworld

838
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:16,280
and then he would be stopped, motion two, giving him a distinct look between him and

839
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,560
the real world and then another world.

840
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:19,800
Glad they didn't do that.

841
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:21,560
How would have been a nightmare?

842
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:26,280
They clearly couldn't let the idea go though because there is the like one scene where he gets

843
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:27,280
like deflated.

844
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Yeah, but I can also understand the studio.

845
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:36,080
This is around the time where like Brenn Frazier is one of the hottest actors in Hollywood,

846
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,600
which means to hire him like you are paying his full salary.

847
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:41,600
But okay, hang on.

848
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,800
Let's do the timeline math here.

849
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,080
If this was 2001, the mummy didn't come out till 1999.

850
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,440
George of the jungle.

851
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,160
George of the jungle was much earlier.

852
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,160
97, 98, right?

853
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:55,760
George of the jungle is 97.

854
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,960
Okay, so 97 is so he did George of the jungle.

855
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:00,120
What about Encino, man?

856
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,120
Was 92.

857
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,760
I'm just thinking of like his big hits.

858
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:10,400
This would have been after the mummy and around mummy returns because mummy returns as 2001.

859
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:15,080
I bet he shot this first given how long the stop motion was gonna take.

860
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,520
Oh, and he did be dazzled as well.

861
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:18,960
When was bedazzled?

862
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:19,960
2000.

863
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,600
Depending on when he was contracted, the producer brain in me is like, wait, he might not have

864
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,960
been crazy expensive yet.

865
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,320
Depending on when he was contracted.

866
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,920
When he does this, it's definitely between the mummy and the mummy returns or like around

867
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:38,160
that time because there is a significant post-production, but there is also another factor

868
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,120
which I'll bring up in just a bit.

869
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:48,320
So the film, if you're unaware, it costs the studio $75 million to make, which I mean,

870
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:52,240
if you ever watched the movie, like all that money you can see on the screen, like the

871
00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:57,120
production value for it and like the costumes, the sets.

872
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,360
Some of the stop motion, it just looks like really good smooth.

873
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,400
Like the bartender is so reminiscent of James and the giant peach and the artwork you

874
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,120
just showed me where I'm like, okay.

875
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,200
His face in particular is really well done.

876
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:18,880
Even the blending of like both Brendan Frazier interacting with monkey bone is so seamless

877
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:20,520
and so good.

878
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:25,400
It's such a disappointment that this movie just got like got buried because like that is

879
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:30,320
even though the story is lacking, where you see the craftsmanship and like the dedication,

880
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,880
like you can really tell that they put a lot of time and effort into that.

881
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:41,720
There is a very specific thing that always tips me off in like heavy VFX movies where you

882
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:45,280
are interacting with a creature because you can tell that like no one's actually touching

883
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:46,280
a face.

884
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:49,920
You know, they're the actors doing the movement and they did something really great where

885
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:53,920
when he does interact with monkey bone, the shadows are right.

886
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,240
Like you don't get that artificial, like there's depth to it.

887
00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:00,600
I'm like, was someone in a green suit like smushing his face?

888
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,280
Like just the inner, like you're right, the interaction is so good.

889
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:09,680
And I think a lot of that has to do with him coming from doing Roger Rabbit because the original

890
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:15,040
idea of doing Roger Rabbit was like you have to like shoot everything on a tripod, everything

891
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:17,040
needs to be still.

892
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:22,840
Then you can animate and put things into it and Richard Williams when he came on to do

893
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,240
Roger Rabbit and he's like, why are we having everything so still?

894
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:28,840
Like these are characters who live in this real world.

895
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,840
Like we should have camera movements.

896
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:34,680
We should have them interacting with things and we're going to plan ahead of time to be

897
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:36,720
like, we're going to have things move.

898
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:38,760
Fix it in pre.

899
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,160
We're going to have things like move as if the characters bouncing around and then we're

900
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,760
going to fill in the spot where that character is supposed to be.

901
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:51,360
So I think Henry Selik is taking those lessons from Roger Rabbit and be like, we can do this

902
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:52,360
with stop motion.

903
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:53,360
I know how to do it.

904
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,360
I've done it before.

905
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,680
But yeah, it costs 75 million dollars to make.

906
00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:00,760
Mel Bill Mechanic was the CEO of Fox Film Entertainment.

907
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:05,920
He was the only one who was like really protecting Selik from the studio notes and when he left

908
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:10,240
which was around the time that Monkey Bone was in post-production, that's when a lot of

909
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:16,560
the executives began to see the movie and were horrified by what Selik and Ham had made.

910
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:22,360
And actually Selik was fired from the movie and the producer Chris Columbus, you know,

911
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,680
Discover of America, director of Home Alone, he actually had to step in to try and finish

912
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:28,680
the film.

913
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:33,560
Columbus attempted to re-edit the film to make it more marketable, but it was just really

914
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:35,040
not much he could do.

915
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:40,080
In fact, they did a test screening of the film that Chris Columbus had put together and people

916
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:42,160
hated it even more.

917
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:48,360
Yeah, I mean, Chris Columbus is a very good director, but that is not his wheelhouse.

918
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:52,160
Like he needs to be in control from the beginning.

919
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,160
Yeah, jumping in on a project.

920
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,320
It's not going to host like wolf.

921
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,520
No, they just told them that you need to be the adult in the room.

922
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:03,360
And he's like, I don't know what you guys did and we're going to just try to put this

923
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:04,360
together.

924
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,000
So did they hire Henry back?

925
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,000
Yeah.

926
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,000
Oh, there we go.

927
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:09,000
Oh, I was so excited.

928
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,640
Selik was then back to put the film back together.

929
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:13,760
He has stated that there was another cut.

930
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:19,160
That was about 15 minutes longer than he said that would have made the film a bit better.

931
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:20,680
I guess released the director cut.

932
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:22,560
I'm always curious to watch like both.

933
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:24,280
I think that's a fun film discussion.

934
00:47:24,280 --> 00:47:28,120
I know there's a few deleted scenes that are in there, but there's also an alternate ending

935
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:29,120
as well.

936
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,880
I didn't watch it till recently.

937
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:35,760
I didn't watch it as a kid and I think part of it had to do with like how the cover art

938
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:41,000
for it was and someone had described it and I think this is the perfect way to describe

939
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,040
is like, it looks like an SNL movie in a bad way.

940
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,240
It does not start off in the most family friendly.

941
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:49,240
No.

942
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:50,640
It's not for children.

943
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:51,640
No.

944
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:52,640
I think that's part of it.

945
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:58,400
It starts off with a child getting turned on by his teacher's arm flaps.

946
00:47:58,400 --> 00:47:59,400
Oh, boy.

947
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,120
I think that's the highest raunchy point in the whole movie.

948
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,520
I actually wonder if they would have cut that.

949
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:10,520
I guess you need it to explain the story of what he does, but I'm like, maybe re-shoot

950
00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:14,520
that opening and I actually think you could have pitched it as more of a family friendly

951
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:15,520
thing.

952
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:16,520
Yeah.

953
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:17,520
That opening hard-know-them.

954
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,440
I think the opening is kind of there is like, this is going to be raunchy or

955
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,440
humor.

956
00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:25,720
We might as well put that all up front to be like, well, this is what we're going to expect

957
00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:27,160
for the rest of the movie.

958
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:34,320
But if you are an audience member that sets the bar and you assume, because of what we're

959
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,000
told our story structure works, the bar will only go up.

960
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:41,680
And I just don't know that it starts out on such a high that I'm like, hey, maybe we

961
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:47,280
take it down a step because I think the worlds are really fun and it's very creative, but

962
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,960
that beginning does stick in my head in like a like, it key way.

963
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,280
Yeah, I can see that.

964
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:57,680
I will say that because of the poster for the movie, they have Chris Kitan on there as

965
00:48:57,680 --> 00:48:59,880
like one half.

966
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,200
And it seems like the movie is going to be like about Chris Kitan.

967
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:06,840
And no, he doesn't show up till the third act.

968
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:09,800
And it's not even till like the later part of the third act.

969
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040
And he is brilliant.

970
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:14,840
I think they use him like the appropriate amount.

971
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,640
I bet they put him on there because this was really his peak.

972
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:26,080
It was like Korka Romano had just come out and let's talk about monkey bone in theaters.

973
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,640
When the film released, it flopped hard.

974
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:34,720
It was released February 23rd, 2001 and made seven and a half million dollars in the box

975
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:35,720
office.

976
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:37,720
Remember how much?

977
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:38,720
75 million.

978
00:49:38,720 --> 00:49:40,720
About a tenth of the budget.

979
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,720
Yeah.

980
00:49:41,720 --> 00:49:42,720
Ouch.

981
00:49:42,720 --> 00:49:47,840
I will say that part of the blame might be the studio, debating on when to release it.

982
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:51,840
At first, they were going to put the movie in theaters during a major holiday.

983
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,240
They were thinking like Halloween or Fourth of July.

984
00:49:54,240 --> 00:50:00,120
But instead, they threw it out in February as a way just like get it out there and decided

985
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,320
that it was going to be released about a month before it happened.

986
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:04,320
Right.

987
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,600
So your marketing is basically non-existent?

988
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:11,560
No, the cast didn't even get a chance to do any interviews to promote the film.

989
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:14,800
2001 is still early internet days.

990
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,040
The marketing and the promotions that we have now is just so much more.

991
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,480
We just didn't do that then.

992
00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:21,800
She says sounding 100.

993
00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:26,280
And we still do this now where actors go on to talk shows and they promote and talk about

994
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,320
the movies that they're going to do.

995
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,880
If you look up the promotions or any interviews with the cast of monkey bone talking about monkey

996
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,720
bone, it is non-existent because it never happened.

997
00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:41,280
Whenever a studio doesn't seem to really believe in a movie or film, they'll just toss it

998
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,280
out in January of February.

999
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,120
That's the continuous joke, right?

1000
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:49,600
Is that like if you have a January slot, it hurts.

1001
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,800
If you have a February slot and you're not a romantic movie, it hurts.

1002
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:58,960
In an interview on the YouTube channel, a double toasted, Selic reflected on the results

1003
00:50:58,960 --> 00:50:59,960
of the film.

1004
00:50:59,960 --> 00:51:00,960
I have a few feelings.

1005
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:05,360
I don't think it would ever have been a big hit as it was.

1006
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:11,840
They dumped the film with no publicity, not a single ad because they just said, "Well,

1007
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:12,840
it's a failure.

1008
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,600
We don't want to help it in any which way."

1009
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:21,680
And so the funniest thing of all though, we did get rave reviews in the New York Times

1010
00:51:21,680 --> 00:51:25,800
in the LA Times.

1011
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:28,440
The best, they said, "Best comedy of the year."

1012
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:30,160
Like crazy good.

1013
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:32,120
And then we got like entertainment weekly.

1014
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:33,800
We got very good.

1015
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:38,840
But then for a lot of other critics, they're angry about this film.

1016
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,400
It was upsetting to them.

1017
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:42,480
It made them mad.

1018
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,040
So I've two thoughts that it would never have been a big hit.

1019
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:52,560
It certainly would have done better if they'd advertise a little or if they took those,

1020
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:57,200
you know how, if you have a really good review, you take those reviews, you post them in a

1021
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,280
thing.

1022
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:07,400
But I, okay, so it would have been more successful but never a big hit if they'd actually promoted

1023
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:08,400
it.

1024
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,760
How do you advertise for this movie though?

1025
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,360
I mean, there are trailers out there for it, but like the fact that they didn't really

1026
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:18,160
put it out there and they didn't really know who to market it to.

1027
00:52:18,160 --> 00:52:19,160
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

1028
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:20,160
I think it's a fun movie.

1029
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,480
I don't know how I would have pitched it for marketing.

1030
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:29,880
There is an IMDB fun fact that I don't think it is true, but it seems to be a fun fact.

1031
00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:31,360
It seems plausible.

1032
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:38,000
It was that they put trailers for the Monkey Bone movie on Cartoon Network.

1033
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:43,080
There were a lot of complaints from parents saying that this is inappropriate for children.

1034
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:50,480
And so they started putting the trailer for the film at night and this ultimately led to

1035
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:51,480
adult swim.

1036
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:52,480
No.

1037
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,480
I don't think it's true.

1038
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,160
I think part of it sounds true.

1039
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,160
It does seem true.

1040
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:57,160
The leading to adult swim.

1041
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:58,680
I don't know if it really is.

1042
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:02,080
I can see people complaining about it be like this is inappropriate for children because if

1043
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,000
you've seen the movie, yeah, a lot of it is inappropriate for children.

1044
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:06,000
That's the thing.

1045
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,120
It's not like deeply branchy enough to be like, this is an adult comedy.

1046
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:13,320
It does not pick a lane, unfortunately.

1047
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:15,840
No, it's not a family-friendly film.

1048
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:20,240
It's a very raunchy, kind of in the tune of like South Park, which was big at the time.

1049
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,960
But yeah, you talk about if they just advertise it a little.

1050
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:23,960
He says quote,

1051
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:31,440
"Still would like to do a director's cut because there's a lot of cool stuff that was removed."

1052
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:37,640
My main lesson learned is, I don't really do well in the live action universe.

1053
00:53:37,640 --> 00:53:41,000
I love my world of stop-motion the animators.

1054
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,240
The crew there, I like working with actors for the voices.

1055
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,400
And that's really my strength.

1056
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,240
So I went down a slippery slope to make monkey bone.

1057
00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:58,320
The film that came out is not my vision of what the film could have been.

1058
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,480
And I just don't, I don't thrive in that world.

1059
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:09,120
So it's kind of a lose for everyone where he is not in his wheelhouse for one.

1060
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,680
He tried the best that he could given the resources that he had.

1061
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:18,360
And the moments where you see him thriving the most is a live action interaction between

1062
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:22,160
Brendan Frazier and Monkey Bone, where Monkey Bone is stop-motion.

1063
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:28,280
You see it in the underworld, which is just called downtown in the movie.

1064
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:34,800
But this underground world where everything is creepy and weird and amazing.

1065
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:36,320
You're comical cocktail.

1066
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,600
And just like the world just looks incredible.

1067
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:45,360
It kind of resembles Halloween town from Nightmare Before Christmas in a way.

1068
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:52,760
It does. His vision kind of reminds me of like an era of Picasso where it's such an intricate

1069
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,960
and specific vision.

1070
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,240
It's not going to work in every format.

1071
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:02,200
I kind of applaud him though for going, I tried this thing and I learned it didn't work.

1072
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:07,200
I mean, that's the beauty of movie making is not everyone is going to be fantastic.

1073
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,680
But the reason that the highs feel higher because we learn why not to do.

1074
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:12,680
Yeah.

1075
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:23,680
Plenty of people adore Monkey Bone.

1076
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:29,040
And after Monkey Bone was released around this time, Neil Gaiman was finishing his novella

1077
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:30,040
core line.

1078
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:31,040
Yeah.

1079
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:32,880
And he gave an early copy to Selik.

1080
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:37,240
Gaiman was a huge fan of Nightmare Before Christmas and was hoping Selik could adapt the

1081
00:55:37,240 --> 00:55:39,040
book into a movie.

1082
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:43,240
After reading the book, Selik concluded that the straight adaptation would create a maybe

1083
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:48,160
47 minute movie and he thought the story needed to be fleshed out.

1084
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:52,640
Selik brought the idea to build Mechanic who actually was no longer working at Fox and

1085
00:55:52,640 --> 00:55:55,520
was actually just a free agent now.

1086
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:59,480
Mechanic, he liked the idea and tells Selik to write the script.

1087
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:04,160
Selik goes back to Gaiman thinking that Gaiman would actually write the adaptation just

1088
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,360
because that's how he's done so in the past.

1089
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:11,040
And Gaiman actually trusted Selik so much and told him to go ahead and just make the adaptation

1090
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:16,600
himself and just expand whatever he needed to do to make it a full length feature.

1091
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:20,320
Selik's major addition was the character YB.

1092
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,320
YB, YB over.

1093
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,320
YB?

1094
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:24,320
Sure for Y-born.

1095
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,560
Not my idea, of course.

1096
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,960
Who in the novel is only mentioned as the boy who lived in the house before Caroline.

1097
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:31,960
Whoa.

1098
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:34,200
YB is like one of my favorite parts.

1099
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,200
So, and that's all because of Selik.

1100
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:37,920
See when he's in his lay me crushes him.

1101
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:38,920
Mm-hmm.

1102
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,160
He was primarily added so that Caroline had someone to talk to.

1103
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:48,800
To help with the concept art, Selik hired a Japanese illustrator, Tata Hiro Yusuki.

1104
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,280
At first he was there to design the characters but Selik liked his work so much he kept him

1105
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,840
on to visually design the film.

1106
00:56:55,840 --> 00:57:01,360
In an interview with Animation World Network Yusagi talks about his time working with Selik,

1107
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:06,440
quote, "I was told which images in the book I was going to translate into the movie, except

1108
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,960
for that everything was basically up to me.

1109
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,360
Henry's only instruction was design with your own ideas.

1110
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:14,960
But we would like to see something we've never seen before."

1111
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:15,960
Yeah, Caroline.

1112
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:16,960
Yeah.

1113
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:22,040
As the film was developing under Bill Mechanics approval, Bill actually had a contract with

1114
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,440
Disney that didn't allow him to develop an animated movie.

1115
00:57:26,440 --> 00:57:30,800
So they had to pretend like this was going to be a live action adaptation and it was

1116
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:36,440
rumored that Michelle Fyfer was cast as the mother and because of this clause, this put

1117
00:57:36,440 --> 00:57:38,480
the film into development hell.

1118
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:42,800
If this was 2001 and we don't get Caroline to like, 2012?

1119
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:43,960
I think 2009.

1120
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,280
Yep, 2009.

1121
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:50,680
So while Caroline was in limbo, Wes Anderson approached Selik to help him animate the fish

1122
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,720
in the life aquatic with Steve Sizu.

1123
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:55,680
Specifically, the Jackwater Shark.

1124
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:58,520
It is beautiful Steve.

1125
00:57:58,520 --> 00:58:00,720
Yeah, it's pretty good.

1126
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:01,720
Yeah.

1127
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:07,760
I wonder if it remembers me.

1128
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,760
After that, Wes Anderson asked Selik if he would be able to direct a film that he had been

1129
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:12,760
developing.

1130
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,560
Another role, doll adaptation.

1131
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,280
Fantastic, Mr. Fox.

1132
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:17,480
Fantastic, Mr. Fox.

1133
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:19,280
I really remember liking.

1134
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,400
But you know when they released the like behind the scenes footage, all I ever think of

1135
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:28,000
is seeing George Clooney eating the toast really fast.

1136
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,920
So Selik agreed to work on the film, but he didn't want to be the director and ended up

1137
00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,080
being the animation director.

1138
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:39,080
While in the middle of filming, Selik got word that Coraline got the green light and he had

1139
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:42,960
to leave the production in February 2006.

1140
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:48,840
To replace him was Mark Gustafon, who prior to did the stop motion animation for a clay

1141
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:54,000
mission Christmas celebration, meet the raisins and the PJs.

1142
00:58:54,000 --> 00:59:00,480
He would later go down the road to co-direct Guillermo Dottoros Pinocchio.

1143
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:06,520
Mark Gustafon was an animator that worked regularly with Will Viten Studios.

1144
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:12,560
They were a stop motion animation studio hired to do animations for anyone who needed it,

1145
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:17,640
like the animation sequences and returned to Oz, Captain Eo, Michael Jackson's speed demon

1146
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:23,960
music video, the California raisins, Domino's pizza, the Noid, the M&M's commercial.

1147
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:30,280
Their only theatrical film that they produce was 1985, which was the adventures of Mark Twain.

1148
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:36,880
In the around the 90s, the studio received less work and started to run out of money.

1149
00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:42,560
And that's when Phil Knight, who is the CEO of Nike, stepped in as an investor and saved

1150
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:43,880
the company.

1151
00:59:43,880 --> 00:59:48,760
He was personally invested because his son, Travis Knight, was actually an animator at that

1152
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:49,760
studio.

1153
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:54,560
Now, in 2002, Phil Knight fully acquired the company.

1154
00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,160
To help save the company, he pushed for feature-length films to be produced.

1155
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:04,920
Their first IP they bought the rights for was The Book, The Wall in the Wing by Laura

1156
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,760
Rudy, and they were plans to make it into a CGI movie.

1157
01:00:08,760 --> 01:00:11,040
To direct, they wanted Henry Selik.

1158
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:16,280
Also lined up was the Tim Burton Warner Bros. feature, Corpse Bride.

1159
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,360
And another one was Henry Selik's Coraline.

1160
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:20,360
Yeah.

1161
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:28,320
And it was around 2005 that Fightin Studios changed their name to Leica Entertainment.

1162
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,040
It wasn't reported what happened to The Wall in the Wing, but Selik was given the green

1163
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:35,400
light to start the production on Coraline.

1164
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:43,640
Because it was now pushing to use CGI, there was an initial plan to make Coraline in CG.

1165
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:46,560
Selik explained what was going to happen to the L.A. Times.

1166
01:00:46,560 --> 01:00:52,400
The world Coraline lives in is rendered in CG, and the magic world she escapes to will be

1167
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:54,680
handmade and done in stop motion.

1168
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,800
They did a screen test with the CG footage, and it did not look good, so they made the

1169
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:02,800
call to make the whole film in stop motion.

1170
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:07,600
But they still wanted to make a difference between the real world and the magic world somehow.

1171
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:12,160
It's kind of subtle and hard to notice, but once you know it, you can't really unsee

1172
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:13,160
it.

1173
01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:18,520
In real world, they built the sets with force perspective, meaning that they built the sets

1174
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,880
at an angle, so they seemed like they would be flatter.

1175
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:29,200
But in the magic world, they built the set as a full set, making the worlds feel more spacious.

1176
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:35,240
And there's that one moment where you can really see where she goes down the tunnel thing,

1177
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,760
and then the tunnel stretches out.

1178
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:40,200
So that is your kind of indication.

1179
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:41,520
The rules are different here.

1180
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:42,520
The worlds are different.

1181
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:46,680
The world is different even though it looks similar, and you can actually look up the set

1182
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:47,680
pieces online.

1183
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:51,760
You can actually look up the kitchen, the differences between the kitchen.

1184
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:54,360
Maybe we'll put this onto the social media as well.

1185
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:59,840
So you can actually see in the kitchen the force perspective one where it's like really

1186
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,800
flat, and then you see the kitchen in the other world, the button world.

1187
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:10,440
But you can see that world, that kitchen is like fully built.

1188
01:02:10,440 --> 01:02:11,440
Yeah.

1189
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:16,000
I've always felt the difference and couldn't figure out why, and that makes sense.

1190
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:19,360
And now that you know when you rewatch that movie, you killed the magic.

1191
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:20,360
You can't unsee it.

1192
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:21,760
I mean, it doesn't really kill the magic.

1193
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:22,920
Like, no knowing that.

1194
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:29,360
It's interesting to see how they did it, and you're just wondering, that's why I feel this

1195
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:30,360
way.

1196
01:02:30,360 --> 01:02:33,520
That's why I feel like kind of claustrophobic in the real world.

1197
01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:34,520
Yeah.

1198
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:38,560
I like when movies do that, when they play with perspective or color.

1199
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,960
If you're using an element of filmmaking to tell the story, I think that always enriches

1200
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:43,960
the story more.

1201
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:44,960
Yeah.

1202
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:49,080
Now, this movie was technically advanced, and this is just like me nerding about cameras

1203
01:02:49,080 --> 01:02:51,120
and whatnot.

1204
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:56,720
This was the first film to ever be shot with the intention of it being released in real

1205
01:02:56,720 --> 01:02:58,120
3D.

1206
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:03,000
Now some films before that, they were re-edited in post, but this film was actually photographed

1207
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:05,400
with the intent that it was going to be in 3D.

1208
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:10,600
Now, typically when you shoot in 3D, known as stereoscope, meaning that you have two cameras

1209
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,160
actually shooting side by side representing your eyes.

1210
01:03:14,160 --> 01:03:18,000
The issues that you can run into is that even though those lenses can be the exact same

1211
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:23,080
match, there are minor imperfections that can make the picture slightly off.

1212
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,960
When they're put together in the final 3D effect, you may not see it, but sometimes you

1213
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:27,960
can feel it.

1214
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:32,760
That's why a lot of people, whenever they watch 3D movies, they feel like, yeah, "quizy."

1215
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,640
So it's those minor imperfections in the lens that causes that.

1216
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,640
Even though you can't sense it, but you can feel that it's all off.

1217
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:41,640
Oh, yeah.

1218
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,920
No, it gives me the same feeling of being on a boat or getting motion sick in the car.

1219
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,920
It's just your equilibrium is off balance.

1220
01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:52,800
In the case of Corline, they did not shoot stereoscopy in the traditional way.

1221
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:57,120
Instead they used one camera that would capture one frame, and then they would glide the camera

1222
01:03:57,120 --> 01:04:02,160
horizontally on the rig to get the second angle from the same camera.

1223
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,000
Holy shit, how long did that take?

1224
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:08,960
So every time that they set up the frame, they're like one picture, move the camera, second

1225
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,000
picture, and there you go.

1226
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:17,960
Oh my God, stop motion is so long process to begin with.

1227
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:20,720
No wonder Corline's so beautiful.

1228
01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:24,360
They also were not limited to having two camera side by side.

1229
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:29,200
They can actually measure the exact distance that better matches the distance, not between

1230
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:35,520
human eyes, but actually the puppet's eyes.

1231
01:04:35,520 --> 01:04:41,600
See, I love when deep thought is put into a movie.

1232
01:04:41,600 --> 01:04:46,480
When some films are shot in 3D, these cameras can only get so close together.

1233
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:51,040
And in some cases, they can get them even closer using a mirror system to achieve that, which

1234
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:55,520
causes another factor of issues that can cause those imperfections.

1235
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:57,760
My body go, bleh.

1236
01:04:57,760 --> 01:05:04,480
So that's why I think Corline is one of the most perfect 3D films ever made because it

1237
01:05:04,480 --> 01:05:06,200
had that intention in mind.

1238
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:12,120
So that when you're watching it in 3D, you're not watching it as a human looking at miniatures,

1239
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:17,240
you're watching it as if you were a puppet watching other puppets, which is really cool.

1240
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:23,640
The cool thing about that Dan's camera fun back is that I obviously knew that every lens

1241
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:29,360
is different and it dust or hair on the lens can kind of like, but that means that every

1242
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:35,000
time you're shooting a story, depending on the lens, that adds to the uniqueness of a story,

1243
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:39,960
not just focal length and all of that, but the actual physical piece.

1244
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,480
If you're shooting on a lens that's really old, I sort of always thought about that, but

1245
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,760
in this case, it becomes the story itself too.

1246
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,120
So cool that they went through that process.

1247
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:57,280
So Corline, that was a critical success, nominated for over 30 awards in winning 10, most notably

1248
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:03,360
the Annie Awards for Best Music, Best Character Design and Best Production Design.

1249
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:09,360
In the box office, Paul DeGarabitian, who is a film business analysis, compared the films

1250
01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:14,000
opening numbers to another successful stop-motion film, Wallace and Gromit, the Curse of the

1251
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:15,000
Wear Rabbit.

1252
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,760
Oh, I thought you were going to save my Mervo for a Curse.

1253
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:19,760
Which it took in $16 million.

1254
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:24,240
Corline was just able to surpass that with $16.85 million.

1255
01:06:24,240 --> 01:06:26,840
And what was the budget for Corline?

1256
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:27,840
$16 million, actually.

1257
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:28,840
$60?

1258
01:06:28,840 --> 01:06:29,840
$60.

1259
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:30,840
$60.

1260
01:06:30,840 --> 01:06:34,640
And the second week in it took in another $15 million.

1261
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,800
What the film did prove with that Leica was a studio that could make great movies.

1262
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:44,480
Over time, the film did make back its money threefold through re-releases and its highest

1263
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:46,880
grossing film for fathom events.

1264
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:47,880
Heck yeah.

1265
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:50,360
Corline did become kind of a cult classic.

1266
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:51,360
It did.

1267
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:56,800
But the thing you probably wonder in the most did Leica, who is owned by Nike, was their shoe

1268
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,480
made for the movie?

1269
01:06:58,480 --> 01:06:59,800
And the answer is yes.

1270
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:00,800
Wait, what?

1271
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,800
And Nike makes shoes to tie in with all of their movies.

1272
01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:05,800
What?

1273
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:08,400
And here's where our nerd brains combine.

1274
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,400
Look at that.

1275
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,800
That is the Corline Nike shoe.

1276
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:14,200
Looks like a YB shoe, but sure.

1277
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,200
Mm-hmm.

1278
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:16,200
It's got the cat.

1279
01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:17,200
Oh.

1280
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:18,200
Mouse?

1281
01:07:18,200 --> 01:07:20,280
Those are from the surface?

1282
01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:21,280
Fun.

1283
01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:22,280
Right?

1284
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:24,680
That is the epitome of Selic style.

1285
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:25,680
Mm-hmm.

1286
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:30,320
Like you see the leasing in Nightmare, you see it in James and the Diamond Peach, you see

1287
01:07:30,320 --> 01:07:33,680
it in Corline and you see it in Wendell and Wilde.

1288
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:38,280
I didn't mention it in the notes, but something that I do want to bring up is like the costuming

1289
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:39,600
for Corline.

1290
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:44,000
They had someone Africa who was and actually just watched a video this morning about

1291
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:48,920
when the puppeteers, but he said like they went to someone who actually crocade thread

1292
01:07:48,920 --> 01:07:51,440
together to make her jacket.

1293
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:52,440
Yeah.

1294
01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:54,760
Like it is all handmade and it is amazing.

1295
01:07:54,760 --> 01:07:55,760
The button eyes.

1296
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:58,000
I know that that trope has been done a couple times.

1297
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:59,920
No one's done it as well as Corline.

1298
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:05,560
There is something about the like sheen and angle of like the way that they are that is

1299
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,560
just so unsettling.

1300
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:10,640
I mean, it's Terry Hatcher's best role as the other mother.

1301
01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:11,640
Yeah.

1302
01:08:11,640 --> 01:08:24,840
So after Corline, Selik worked at like a as a supervising director and helped with

1303
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:30,080
Pair Norman, but Selik is looking for a new project and he narrows it down to three choices.

1304
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:35,040
There was an original project, another Neil Gaiman book and another book adaptation.

1305
01:08:35,040 --> 01:08:39,600
And in 2009 Selik had left like a for an unexpected studio, Disney.

1306
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:41,600
We went bad.

1307
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:48,440
Selik had joined Pixar in Disney Studios in 2010 where he reunited with his old friends

1308
01:08:48,440 --> 01:08:50,360
and co-animators.

1309
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:55,960
His mission was to start up a new stop motion studio called Cinderbiter Productions.

1310
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:02,360
When Selik started at Disney, they greenlit Selik's original project, which was called Shade

1311
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:08,400
Maker, later renamed to the Shadow King with the projected release date of October

1312
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:10,920
4, 2013.

1313
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:17,760
And he also optioned the rights to Neil Gaiman's The Graveguard book, which they planned for

1314
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,160
Selik to direct after finishing Shadow King.

1315
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:26,520
Selik did sum up what the Shadow King was about, saying the Shadow King is a deliciously

1316
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:32,560
magical tale about a nine year old New York orphan, Hap, who hides his fantastically weird

1317
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,200
hands with long fingers from a cruel world.

1318
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:42,280
But when a living Shadow girl teaches him to make amazing hand shadows that come to life,

1319
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:48,520
his hands become incredible weapons in a Shadow War against a ravenous monster bent on killing

1320
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:52,680
Hap's brother, Richard, and ultimately destroying New York.

1321
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:53,680
Dark?

1322
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:54,680
Yeah.

1323
01:09:54,680 --> 01:09:59,360
Selik led a crew of about 150 people to put together the film, converting a closed chocolate

1324
01:09:59,360 --> 01:10:03,480
factory in San Francisco into a stop motion studio.

1325
01:10:03,480 --> 01:10:07,960
New Romano, who was hired as the production designer, he was actually the production designer

1326
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:09,400
of the Incredibles.

1327
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:14,040
He had also worked in the art department of Dexter's Lab, the Iron Giant, Monkey Bone, Powerpuff

1328
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,280
Girls, Monsters Inc, and Up.

1329
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:23,520
And two co-direct with Selik was Eric Leaton, who had worked with Selik on many of his projects

1330
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:25,600
before, except for Monkey Bone.

1331
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:29,240
But for all of the other Selik projects that he worked on, he was either an animator or

1332
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:30,240
a lead animator.

1333
01:10:30,240 --> 01:10:34,760
This is the first time that he would actually be a co-director, prior to Eric was actually

1334
01:10:34,760 --> 01:10:38,120
a co-director for Disney's Denisaur.

1335
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:43,560
Now you might be wondering yourself, who was cast in the Shadow King?

1336
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:47,960
There was a few characters in there, Richard, who was played by Pamela Alden.

1337
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:48,960
Hap!

1338
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:50,960
Where are you?

1339
01:10:50,960 --> 01:10:51,960
What are you doing?

1340
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:55,680
C'mon, bring me my cape.

1341
01:10:55,680 --> 01:10:56,680
Cape?

1342
01:10:56,680 --> 01:10:59,200
Ah, thank you.

1343
01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:01,200
Do you know who Pamela Alden is?

1344
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:02,200
Nope.

1345
01:11:02,200 --> 01:11:03,320
She's a comedian.

1346
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:07,960
She is probably most famously known for voicing Bubbie Hill.

1347
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:08,960
That's my purse!

1348
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,840
I don't know you!

1349
01:11:11,840 --> 01:11:12,840
That's her.

1350
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:13,840
Okay.

1351
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,920
There is Dars, who is gonna be voiced by Brendan Gleason.

1352
01:11:16,920 --> 01:11:17,920
Nice.

1353
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:18,920
You found him the head.

1354
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,280
You're called a kid, somebody with that pig bomb.

1355
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:22,600
We were only trying to kill you.

1356
01:11:22,600 --> 01:11:24,600
And you, follow him right behind him, right?

1357
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,080
And it's a shadow.

1358
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,000
Lizzy Bell was voiced by Jeffrey Tambor.

1359
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:30,000
Nice.

1360
01:11:30,000 --> 01:11:34,760
Neither the Hoppe, nor the Lamp, whatever seen again.

1361
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:39,920
But the Shadowcaster continues to search for them to this day.

1362
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:43,240
Miss Fern was played by Catherine O'Hara.

1363
01:11:43,240 --> 01:11:58,680
So, you're the rebel rabbit.

1364
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:03,000
Interesting, so the Catherine O'Hara piece goes back to Nightmare Before Christmas.

1365
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:07,840
But also, like, clearly she has a relationship with Tom.

1366
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:08,840
Penry!

1367
01:12:08,840 --> 01:12:16,760
I'll never make shadows with these.

1368
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:20,640
The thing is, there was a lot that was done for the Shadow King.

1369
01:12:20,640 --> 01:12:25,600
And if you want to, you can actually look up a lot of what it was going to look like.

1370
01:12:25,600 --> 01:12:26,600
Oh, wow!

1371
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:27,600
Yeah.

1372
01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:28,600
Oh, wow!

1373
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:29,600
So you can see, like, boom.

1374
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:30,600
Oh, that's cute.

1375
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,680
With the shadow here, over here.

1376
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:35,480
I believe this was supposed to be Catherine O'Hara's character.

1377
01:12:35,480 --> 01:12:36,480
Nice.

1378
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:38,960
We went into production in 2012.

1379
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:44,240
And in September 2012, it was reported that Disney had canceled the Shadow King.

1380
01:12:44,240 --> 01:12:50,480
With the reason that it won't hit its 2013 deadline, and that they had already spent $50

1381
01:12:50,480 --> 01:12:52,440
million on production.

1382
01:12:52,440 --> 01:12:56,520
They also canceled Selik's Proceeding Production, the Graveyard Book.

1383
01:12:56,520 --> 01:13:01,960
The film was about 40% done, or was reported that it was 40% done.

1384
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:05,920
Selik has later claimed that there was about five minutes of the film that was shot.

1385
01:13:05,920 --> 01:13:10,880
You can actually see a lot of the videos of the film on YouTube and on our social media.

1386
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:13,720
I'm going to be posting videos of that as well.

1387
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:19,120
The film rights were given to Selik so that he could option the production to another studio.

1388
01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:20,920
But no one gave him the green light.

1389
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:26,800
During a press release for the European Film Market in February 2013, Selik stated that

1390
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:32,160
K-5 International would pick up the film, but that deal didn't go through.

1391
01:13:32,160 --> 01:13:37,280
Part of the deal was when Selik pitches the Shadow King to another studio, that studio then

1392
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:43,120
has to pay Disney $2 million just to acquire the rights.

1393
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:48,320
Yeah, on top of the cost of the production, no one wanted to just outright pay Disney.

1394
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:51,800
Selik went back to Leica with the Shadow King, but they did not go through.

1395
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:56,200
It was leaked in a memo that Selik says Travis Knight, unfortunately, could not figure

1396
01:13:56,200 --> 01:14:01,960
out budgeting to pull this project and had to pass, and the Shadow King was no more.

1397
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:07,960
I looked deeper into what may have been the real reason why I got cancelled.

1398
01:14:07,960 --> 01:14:12,760
And it ultimately seems like John Lasseter was the reason why the movie got shut down by

1399
01:14:12,760 --> 01:14:13,760
Disney.

1400
01:14:13,760 --> 01:14:19,640
There's a quote from Selik saying, "Pixar, have their brain trust, where they rip apart

1401
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,360
ideas, they rebuild them, they rip it apart again and rebuild."

1402
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,200
Lasseter really couldn't support my vision.

1403
01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:30,760
He thought he could make it better, and so we kept changing and changing and changing.

1404
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:32,800
We hired a whole new crew.

1405
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:38,040
We were actually into animation, and it was one of those things where the budget started creeping

1406
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:43,160
up, creeping up, and a new guy came in, Ellen Horn at Disney, and they just felt like,

1407
01:14:43,160 --> 01:14:48,200
no, it's gonna go off the charts for the budget because of the constant changes.

1408
01:14:48,200 --> 01:14:53,120
It was shut down and it was a sad day, but it's also a huge relief because it's like taking

1409
01:14:53,120 --> 01:14:57,440
a kid to the playground, watching your kid get beat up every day and having to take your

1410
01:14:57,440 --> 01:14:59,760
kid home and wipe away the tears.

1411
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:02,680
It really wasn't meant to be.

1412
01:15:02,680 --> 01:15:08,480
Do you know how Pixar, when they were developing, and even Disney animation, just in general,

1413
01:15:08,480 --> 01:15:12,920
how they put together their stories in production?

1414
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:17,640
The way that it works is a script is never solid.

1415
01:15:17,640 --> 01:15:23,720
That's why whenever you're looking to unmade Disney animation films, there is no one script

1416
01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:28,880
that you can find or point to, and that's because a lot of times the way that they develop

1417
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:34,240
the story in the script is they will lay out the whole thing either in storyboard or they'll

1418
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:40,640
lay out in animatics and they will present it to the entire studio and everyone gives

1419
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:42,040
notes.

1420
01:15:42,040 --> 01:15:45,800
Then through those notes, they can change things as they go.

1421
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:50,560
If you're working with animatics, if you're working with storyboards, it's really easy to

1422
01:15:50,560 --> 01:15:52,440
change those.

1423
01:15:52,440 --> 01:15:57,880
In CG animation, you can have a whole sequence animated.

1424
01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:02,720
If you need to change something, you can go through the animation and be like, "Oh, we need

1425
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:06,560
to cut this out, put this back in, and it's much easier to animate."

1426
01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:08,120
When it comes to stop motion, though.

1427
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:10,200
No, because you have to redo it all.

1428
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:12,080
You have to start from scratch.

1429
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:18,080
If you are putting together a fully animated sequence for it to be looked at and for someone

1430
01:16:18,080 --> 01:16:20,680
to take notes and be like, "We got to change that part."

1431
01:16:20,680 --> 01:16:22,040
That arm needs to move.

1432
01:16:22,040 --> 01:16:24,920
It's like, "Well, now we need to go back."

1433
01:16:24,920 --> 01:16:27,040
And redo the whole set up again.

1434
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,120
The cost for it is the same as when we first redo it.

1435
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,920
You're basically doing a reshoot every time it's getting noted.

1436
01:16:32,920 --> 01:16:35,280
Like a full reshoot.

1437
01:16:35,280 --> 01:16:41,920
If a second takes a full day to do, it's going to take forever to do so.

1438
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:48,560
It makes sense for him to enter into Pixar's world and for John Lasseter.

1439
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:54,520
He has a point where Lasseter is the reason why Toy Story did so well.

1440
01:16:54,520 --> 01:17:00,280
My Pixar did so well and he found a system that works for that and he brings in Selik and

1441
01:17:00,280 --> 01:17:04,160
be like, "You're going to go under our system because we know it works."

1442
01:17:04,160 --> 01:17:06,280
It clearly has been working.

1443
01:17:06,280 --> 01:17:09,320
When we bring you in, that's how we're going to operate.

1444
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:13,480
For Selik to be like, "Well, it doesn't work the same in this medium."

1445
01:17:13,480 --> 01:17:15,400
Yeah, those are two different.

1446
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:17,600
You are comparing apples and oranges.

1447
01:17:17,600 --> 01:17:22,360
Not to put too much on Lasseter to be like, "He was the evil person in the situation."

1448
01:17:22,360 --> 01:17:24,040
No, not at all.

1449
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:29,200
This is more like, "We have a system and he was just unwilling to change that system."

1450
01:17:29,200 --> 01:17:35,160
When you're doing these sort of studio notes and feedback, a lot of good can come out of

1451
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:36,160
it.

1452
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:40,000
It's very frustrating as a creator to be like, "Okay, back to the drawing board.

1453
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:45,280
It's got to be tenfold more frustrating to go, "Okay, to really scrap everything we did."

1454
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:46,280
Yeah.

1455
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:47,280
Back to one.

1456
01:17:47,280 --> 01:17:48,800
That's a hard process for everyone.

1457
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:50,880
That is a loose-lose situation on Allens.

1458
01:17:50,880 --> 01:17:51,880
Yeah.

1459
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:57,920
I want to see that now with Spider-Man, with the Spiderverse, where the way that Lord and

1460
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,520
Miller are operating is extremely frustrating to the animators.

1461
01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:06,880
And so many animators have been burnt out and have left that production to do other things

1462
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:12,560
because the way that they operate is that they want fully rendered sequences first to

1463
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:16,200
watch and review them before making any changes.

1464
01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:20,720
And really, all those changes and decisions should be made far ahead of time so that an

1465
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:26,440
animator isn't there working overtime weekends for just a director to watch and review and

1466
01:18:26,440 --> 01:18:27,440
be like, "Mmm."

1467
01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:34,800
Yeah, I mean, with animation and visual effects in a lot of ways, these things take time.

1468
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:39,240
Even though these mediums have been around forever since the dawn of time, I do think there's

1469
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:45,880
still a large chunk of the industry in the world that does not realize how much effort

1470
01:18:45,880 --> 01:18:48,600
goes into each and everything.

1471
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:53,020
Working at a studio and turning out VFX shots, sometimes you're looking at something that

1472
01:18:53,020 --> 01:18:59,040
is five frames and then you have 15 iterations of it and it's like, "Oh, we're still not

1473
01:18:59,040 --> 01:19:00,040
there."

1474
01:19:00,040 --> 01:19:04,320
But if you watch the episode or the movie, you don't really think about those five frames

1475
01:19:04,320 --> 01:19:06,880
unless they're the most beautiful frames you've ever seen.

1476
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:12,040
But in the grand scheme of things, you're not thinking about how many people are literally

1477
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,040
working on these things.

1478
01:19:13,040 --> 01:19:14,040
No.

1479
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:17,840
That's why the credits are so long and they're still not even all encompassing.

1480
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:19,600
This is this idea in Hollywood.

1481
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:25,040
I forget who the composer is, but he had said, "You know you're a successful composer.

1482
01:19:25,040 --> 01:19:28,840
I wouldn't know when to really remember the music for a movie."

1483
01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:33,200
And even though he spent probably a year of his life working on it, no one's going to

1484
01:19:33,200 --> 01:19:35,000
remember what that score is.

1485
01:19:35,000 --> 01:19:38,600
And there's a lot of stuff that's done in post-production.

1486
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:39,600
You mentioned that.

1487
01:19:39,600 --> 01:19:40,920
Goes unnoticed.

1488
01:19:40,920 --> 01:19:44,400
It's really made to be unnoticed.

1489
01:19:44,400 --> 01:19:51,240
The reason why you notice CGI in movies and TV shows is because oftentimes it's bad CGI.

1490
01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:54,960
And it's not even necessarily that it's always considered bad.

1491
01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:59,520
My very first producers said this thing that sticks in my brain forever, it's that it doesn't

1492
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:01,920
fit in the world.

1493
01:20:01,920 --> 01:20:05,760
Sometimes you're going way too hyper realistic and that's just not what this is.

1494
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:07,640
Sometimes you're not going realistic enough.

1495
01:20:07,640 --> 01:20:09,560
Someone put their blood sweat and tears into it.

1496
01:20:09,560 --> 01:20:11,040
It just doesn't fit in the world.

1497
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:12,040
Yeah.

1498
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:14,400
I had to say goodbye to the shadow king.

1499
01:20:14,400 --> 01:20:19,000
Another quote from him, "I got shut down and I was kind of down and I wasn't sure if I

1500
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,040
was going to make another movie again."

1501
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:27,040
But then the key and peel show started on Comedy Central and Kagan Michael Key and Jordan

1502
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,880
Peel who kind of inspired me to do another film.

1503
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:32,960
They inspired many.

1504
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:39,080
In 2013 it was announced that Selik would be directing a live action adaptation of Adam

1505
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:43,040
Gidwitz novel A Tale of Dark and Grim.

1506
01:20:43,040 --> 01:20:47,680
In 2016 it was reported that he was still working on the film adaptation.

1507
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:52,640
Eventually the production evolved into a 10 episode CGI Netflix film that premiered on

1508
01:20:52,640 --> 01:20:55,640
October 2021.

1509
01:20:55,640 --> 01:21:00,520
In November 2015 it was reported that Selik was developing an original story with Jordan

1510
01:21:00,520 --> 01:21:04,360
Peel and Kagan Michael Key called Wendell and Wild.

1511
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:05,360
Yeah.

1512
01:21:05,360 --> 01:21:11,360
Like finally got another win when Netflix picked up the film in 2018 and it was released

1513
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:13,440
in October 2022.

1514
01:21:13,440 --> 01:21:15,920
Look at that great release time.

1515
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:17,000
Yeah.

1516
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:21,940
While he was down about the shadow king getting canned, he found comfort in watching Keen

1517
01:21:21,940 --> 01:21:22,940
Peel.

1518
01:21:22,940 --> 01:21:26,760
He loved the show and thought it would be great if he got to work with them.

1519
01:21:26,760 --> 01:21:31,120
The story of Wendell and Wild was inspired by a short story Selik was working on based

1520
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:32,120
on his sons.

1521
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:37,320
Sketch them as titular demon brothers searching their way to the land of the living.

1522
01:21:37,320 --> 01:21:42,000
Selik thought that the rapport between Keen Peel would be perfect for the brothers.

1523
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:47,560
Jordan Peel says that their sketch prepared for the terries was the inspiration for their

1524
01:21:47,560 --> 01:21:48,560
characterization.

1525
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:50,560
Oh my god.

1526
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:51,560
Conference.

1527
01:21:51,560 --> 01:21:54,560
This was I was back there.

1528
01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:55,560
Certainly was.

1529
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:59,840
I'm thrown right now as to who's going to be our calm rag.

1530
01:21:59,840 --> 01:22:01,840
You still hear you.

1531
01:22:01,840 --> 01:22:02,840
You didn't have to heart not a gumption.

1532
01:22:02,840 --> 01:22:03,840
It literally right next to me is.

1533
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:04,840
Oh three.

1534
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:05,840
Break.

1535
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:06,840
Three.

1536
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:07,840
And you watched that story.

1537
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:09,840
I wonder how that was going to connect.

1538
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:10,840
Uh-huh.

1539
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:15,840
They're dynamic of like they're very confident and very dumb ideas.

1540
01:22:15,840 --> 01:22:16,840
Yeah.

1541
01:22:16,840 --> 01:22:20,480
I couldn't see it when I was I was like why are you making me watch this?

1542
01:22:20,480 --> 01:22:21,480
But now.

1543
01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:25,760
Yeah, that dynamic in that sketch is very much the dynamic in Wendell and Wild.

1544
01:22:25,760 --> 01:22:26,760
It really is.

1545
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:27,760
Conference.

1546
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:29,760
We can't raise the dead.

1547
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,760
We do know how to lie.

1548
01:22:31,760 --> 01:22:33,880
I like that plan.

1549
01:22:33,880 --> 01:22:38,920
And after we work in the story, the leads shifted from an adult woman to a teen girl.

1550
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:43,880
You may have noticed in Wendell and Wild that there is a line on each of the figure's

1551
01:22:43,880 --> 01:22:45,360
faces.

1552
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:49,680
And what that line is is actually a detachment.

1553
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:54,760
So whenever they would have to animate the mouths, like they would always feel frustrated

1554
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:58,200
like working with the mouse because like you would have to like pull wires and like

1555
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:00,240
writing screws and whatnot.

1556
01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,720
And what they ended up doing instead, it started off with the core line where they were

1557
01:23:03,720 --> 01:23:09,320
actually making molds and 3D printing different mouth shapes for like the characters.

1558
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:13,520
And the way that they could animate it was like they could actually just pull off the mouth,

1559
01:23:13,520 --> 01:23:15,360
like the lower part of their face entirely.

1560
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:16,360
Yeah.

1561
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:17,880
And then replace it with something else.

1562
01:23:17,880 --> 01:23:20,760
And they could actually like work a lot faster that way.

1563
01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:24,760
But when it came to core line, they thought that the line was too distracting.

1564
01:23:24,760 --> 01:23:25,760
Yeah.

1565
01:23:25,760 --> 01:23:30,040
So they actually in post CGI, like just painted that out.

1566
01:23:30,040 --> 01:23:32,240
That is a 2D solution.

1567
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:36,520
When it came to Wendell and Wild, they did think about like do we want to keep that in?

1568
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:38,360
They sure did.

1569
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:44,000
And ultimately they decided that they wanted to keep it in just to like show that this is

1570
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:48,200
the process of making these type of stop motion animation films now.

1571
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:50,520
That line is just part of that character.

1572
01:23:50,520 --> 01:23:55,360
The beauty of stop motion animation is that it is its own art form in a way.

1573
01:23:55,360 --> 01:24:00,200
And your painting each painting looks a little different and again aids to the story.

1574
01:24:00,200 --> 01:24:01,880
In core line, it doesn't work.

1575
01:24:01,880 --> 01:24:05,600
But in Wendell and Wild it adds to this sort of spooky feel of things.

1576
01:24:05,600 --> 01:24:08,040
It's a different spooky than core line, two different spookies.

1577
01:24:08,040 --> 01:24:10,880
Very different spookies.

1578
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:24,920
So in June of 2024, Selic announced that he was working on another adaptation of a Neil

1579
01:24:24,920 --> 01:24:27,880
Gaiman novel, The Ocean and the End of the Lane.

1580
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:33,880
But in August 2024, he said that development was now in limbo.

1581
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,880
And if you know anything about what was reported on Neil Gaiman at that time, you probably

1582
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:44,080
already know that a lot of other productions that involved Neil Gaiman also just came to

1583
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:45,400
a halt.

1584
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,400
Yep.

1585
01:24:47,400 --> 01:24:49,600
And that is where we'll leave that topic.

1586
01:24:49,600 --> 01:24:50,600
Yep.

1587
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:52,840
And we will discuss no further.

1588
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:57,640
The latest news that we've heard about the Shadow King is that he is still working on creating

1589
01:24:57,640 --> 01:25:00,800
a graphic novel based on the story.

1590
01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:07,800
I did find this interview of Henry Selic from back in 2013, which I think kind of like

1591
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:12,640
sums up his mentality and I think is a good way to end this episode.

1592
01:25:12,640 --> 01:25:17,000
It was an interview at the Montreal Stop Motion Festival in 2013.

1593
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:21,040
Selic had this to say about when the Shadow King got canceled.

1594
01:25:21,040 --> 01:25:22,800
He said, quote, "Let me just step back for the rest of the story."

1595
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:28,480
And I hope for a second and say that I never set out to have a quote Hollywood career.

1596
01:25:28,480 --> 01:25:33,760
And whatever bad experiences I've had, which are plenty, the good ones outweigh them.

1597
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:39,240
If I only got to direct Nightmare and Coraline, I'd be pretty damn happy because I got to

1598
01:25:39,240 --> 01:25:43,000
take stop motion places it had never been before.

1599
01:25:43,000 --> 01:25:46,720
It's easy to bellyache when things haven't worked out.

1600
01:25:46,720 --> 01:25:50,680
But honestly, I'm very grateful for the projects I've gotten to work on.

1601
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:55,600
The success that we have had with those projects and the rest of it, it doesn't really matter

1602
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:56,600
that much.

1603
01:25:56,600 --> 01:26:03,200
Look, it's great to be talking about a film I directed 20 years ago and still has life.

1604
01:26:03,200 --> 01:26:04,880
That's pretty wonderful.

1605
01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:08,920
Sometimes an artist is gone before their work finds a big audience.

1606
01:26:08,920 --> 01:26:11,600
I'm glad I'm around to appreciate this.

1607
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:13,000
What a cool dude.

1608
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:14,160
I like that response.

1609
01:26:14,160 --> 01:26:15,960
I needed that reminder today.

1610
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:16,960
Yeah.

1611
01:26:16,960 --> 01:26:19,360
Henry Selic is after doing this, especially.

1612
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:22,160
I think is one of my favorite filmmakers and artists.

1613
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:24,520
I think his stuff is incredibly unique.

1614
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:26,800
Okay, so we always do the thing.

1615
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:28,200
Would you like to see this get made or not?

1616
01:26:28,200 --> 01:26:30,640
And I think we have two opportunities actually here, right?

1617
01:26:30,640 --> 01:26:31,880
Because we have Shadow King.

1618
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:32,880
Yep.

1619
01:26:32,880 --> 01:26:33,880
But we got Toots.

1620
01:26:33,880 --> 01:26:36,840
We got Toots as well in the upside down world.

1621
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:41,160
And honestly, like Toots, that sounds like a movie that's right up.

1622
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:44,920
Henry Selic's alley of like, person goes into weird world.

1623
01:26:44,920 --> 01:26:50,240
And I love whenever Henry Selic is given the opportunity to make a weird world.

1624
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:51,240
Yeah.

1625
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:52,240
Okay.

1626
01:26:52,240 --> 01:26:53,240
So if you can only pick one.

1627
01:26:53,240 --> 01:26:59,000
If you are Joe producer and you can pick one of his films to make which one is in Toots,

1628
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:00,000
is it Shadow King?

1629
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:04,400
I think we kind of got Toots when we got Coraline.

1630
01:27:04,400 --> 01:27:09,680
It feels like he was able to scratch that itch when he made Coraline.

1631
01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:15,800
So I'm not so hell bent on rooting for that movie because I think we kind of got it.

1632
01:27:15,800 --> 01:27:23,680
Where the Shadow King was a completely different medium and because the way that it is put together

1633
01:27:23,680 --> 01:27:27,840
and it's we're not going to watch through all of it, but there's like one part in particular

1634
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:29,640
where you can see his fingers.

1635
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:31,280
Yeah, like right here.

1636
01:27:31,280 --> 01:27:34,360
Like you don't see something like that in a character.

1637
01:27:34,360 --> 01:27:37,080
So he's showing his elongated fingers.

1638
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:41,240
He's pulling them out and he's practicing like shadow puppets with them.

1639
01:27:41,240 --> 01:27:47,240
And the thing that like is really underestimated with Henry Selic's movies is like camera movements

1640
01:27:47,240 --> 01:27:49,240
and the use of shadows.

1641
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,320
Because when you think of stop motion animation, the only thing that you're really thinking

1642
01:27:52,320 --> 01:27:55,280
about is like how the characters are moving.

1643
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,280
And Henry Selic is thinking about everything else.

1644
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:58,280
Every now.

1645
01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,360
Where he's like it's not just about the characters moving.

1646
01:28:00,360 --> 01:28:02,960
It's about the other things that you can show.

1647
01:28:02,960 --> 01:28:08,280
And I think that with the Shadow King, this is something that has never been seen before.

1648
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:09,880
And I think that's very interesting.

1649
01:28:09,880 --> 01:28:10,880
It is interesting.

1650
01:28:10,880 --> 01:28:15,000
I'm glad you just showed me that because I think my answer, it didn't change my answer,

1651
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:20,200
but I'm leaning more to it's just because I think going off of watching Monkey Bone last

1652
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:26,080
night, I think we often do stop motion animation with like a dark tone behind it.

1653
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,000
To it's just talking about like the fairies and the upside downness.

1654
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:35,160
And after watching Monkey Bone and the color play and knowing the color play in Coraline,

1655
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:39,840
I think that there's like a more fun like whimsical, not so spooky side.

1656
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:42,440
I know I'm asking for a non spooky, that doesn't make sense.

1657
01:28:42,440 --> 01:28:43,440
Honestly, both.

1658
01:28:43,440 --> 01:28:47,320
Because I was going to say to it's and I was saying it didn't change my answer, but like

1659
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:48,320
that was really cute.

1660
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:49,320
Yeah, it's fun.

1661
01:28:49,320 --> 01:28:53,880
And we're going to post it onto the socials so that you can see it as well and you can

1662
01:28:53,880 --> 01:28:57,080
determine for yourself should this have been a movie.

1663
01:28:57,080 --> 01:29:10,520
And now it's time for our favorite part of we don't love doing an episode, but we do

1664
01:29:10,520 --> 01:29:12,280
love recommending it.

1665
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:16,120
It is much easier to watch things than it is to research things.

1666
01:29:16,120 --> 01:29:17,280
Yeah.

1667
01:29:17,280 --> 01:29:18,440
So what if you watch lately?

1668
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:21,680
What do you want to recommend to our audience for them to see?

1669
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:29,520
I started the pilot for L, which is the legally blonde prequel of--

1670
01:29:29,520 --> 01:29:30,840
It's the legally blonde prequel.

1671
01:29:30,840 --> 01:29:32,400
Yeah, to the famous musical.

1672
01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:34,520
To the famous musicals of the famous film.

1673
01:29:34,520 --> 01:29:37,520
But it's set in 1995.

1674
01:29:37,520 --> 01:29:38,520
Okay.

1675
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:42,440
I mean, granted, I started it late last night and 100% fell asleep in the middle of it, but

1676
01:29:42,440 --> 01:29:44,480
I've really enjoyed what I've seen so far.

1677
01:29:44,480 --> 01:29:46,680
And it's got your girl, June Dine, or I feel--

1678
01:29:46,680 --> 01:29:48,520
I was-- I didn't even write notes.

1679
01:29:48,520 --> 01:29:50,920
You're just stealing my brain dots at this point.

1680
01:29:50,920 --> 01:29:55,640
It does have my girl, June Dine, as L Woods' mother.

1681
01:29:55,640 --> 01:30:03,880
And I think they've done a brilliant job at its core staying to the vibe of the story, but

1682
01:30:03,880 --> 01:30:08,560
the characters actually feel fresh and new and interesting.

1683
01:30:08,560 --> 01:30:11,840
L is played by a girl named Lexi, so I'm not partial at all.

1684
01:30:11,840 --> 01:30:17,920
But she is not trying to emulate Reese Witherspoon, which I think is the way you have to go about

1685
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:19,520
these roles.

1686
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:27,380
And then, Mug girl, June Dine has her typical level of snark, but this is definitely a different

1687
01:30:27,380 --> 01:30:28,960
angle than I feel like I've seen her.

1688
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:34,360
But what she brings to everything, you absolutely need it in this story so that it doesn't feel

1689
01:30:34,360 --> 01:30:36,760
too saccharine or too camp.

1690
01:30:36,760 --> 01:30:42,720
Her level of snarkingness into motherhood actually keeps it very grounded to me.

1691
01:30:42,720 --> 01:30:47,840
And her lines are clearly catered toward her, which I love.

1692
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:53,360
I've been on a rant, and I know that you've heard it, was that when Stranger Things ended,

1693
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:57,920
we were going to pivot out of the 80s and into the 90s.

1694
01:30:57,920 --> 01:30:58,920
We are there.

1695
01:30:58,920 --> 01:31:02,600
This is the first thing I've seen where I was like, I told everybody that the 90s were going

1696
01:31:02,600 --> 01:31:08,160
to be so cool soon, just based on if you look at history and historical cycles, like Stranger

1697
01:31:08,160 --> 01:31:12,000
Things was going to be the end of that 80s love and going to the 90s.

1698
01:31:12,000 --> 01:31:14,080
Or if you go to Old Navy, and you know.

1699
01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:19,040
I mean, we say it in like back to the future where the 80s were just obsessed with 50s culture.

1700
01:31:19,040 --> 01:31:20,040
Right.

1701
01:31:20,040 --> 01:31:21,120
So we're now in that 90s cycle.

1702
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,920
We are now old enough to experience that cycle.

1703
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:28,640
It's really cool to see something like, oh, they're supposed to have money and be well

1704
01:31:28,640 --> 01:31:31,680
off, but I'm like, I don't remember people driving that car.

1705
01:31:31,680 --> 01:31:36,760
Like things like that, like to have that historical sort of context to things is fun.

1706
01:31:36,760 --> 01:31:37,760
But yeah, it's a fun time.

1707
01:31:37,760 --> 01:31:40,920
I will finish the pilot.

1708
01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:42,720
And I'm excited to see where it goes.

1709
01:31:42,720 --> 01:31:47,440
So my suggestion is completely hard left.

1710
01:31:47,440 --> 01:31:49,040
But it does relate to the episode.

1711
01:31:49,040 --> 01:31:51,240
I don't know how to relate things.

1712
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,640
It is a movie called Mad God.

1713
01:31:53,640 --> 01:31:55,440
It couldn't be more hard left.

1714
01:31:55,440 --> 01:32:01,400
It is a stop motion animated movie, at least like most of it is stop motion.

1715
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:03,800
It is about this mass character.

1716
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:04,800
He has a gas mass.

1717
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:12,400
He does like this makeshift hazmat suit has to go into like this post apocalypse underground

1718
01:32:12,400 --> 01:32:13,760
world.

1719
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:20,000
And it kind of feels like metropolis where like every creature and being and person is just

1720
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:23,640
like a cog in the wheel of whatever it is.

1721
01:32:23,640 --> 01:32:25,840
And nothing is precious.

1722
01:32:25,840 --> 01:32:29,840
You see these characters like just taken out like they're nothing.

1723
01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:33,320
They get crushed by this huge boulder thing or whatever.

1724
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:34,880
I just go for that.

1725
01:32:34,880 --> 01:32:35,880
No one cares.

1726
01:32:35,880 --> 01:32:38,520
They're just like whatever just another day at work.

1727
01:32:38,520 --> 01:32:45,360
This whole mission is to set off a bomb that resets time to like bring things back to where

1728
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:46,360
they were.

1729
01:32:46,360 --> 01:32:47,360
And it's really interesting.

1730
01:32:47,360 --> 01:32:52,560
But this is a film made by Phil Tippett.

1731
01:32:52,560 --> 01:32:54,000
Do you know who Phil Tippett is?

1732
01:32:54,000 --> 01:32:55,560
I know that name.

1733
01:32:55,560 --> 01:32:59,120
Phil Tippett he is a special effects.

1734
01:32:59,120 --> 01:33:00,360
Oh, I've seen this man.

1735
01:33:00,360 --> 01:33:02,920
Yeah, he does a lot of visual effects.

1736
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:05,120
What he's known for is Star Wars.

1737
01:33:05,120 --> 01:33:11,240
Star Wars when Jurassic Park was originally being made, they were debating on using this new

1738
01:33:11,240 --> 01:33:12,400
CGI technology.

1739
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,120
They're like, I don't know if it's going to work.

1740
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:19,360
If that wasn't going to work, they were going to use Phil Tippett to actually stop motion

1741
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:23,040
animate the dinosaurs when they were going to switch over to CGI.

1742
01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:28,840
They were like, we still need Phil to stay here and like help with the natural movements

1743
01:33:28,840 --> 01:33:29,840
of the dinosaurs.

1744
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:33,760
He's there as like a supervisor for all that when Luke Skywalker is in the Millennium

1745
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:35,080
Falcon to remember when he like.

1746
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:36,080
It turns on.

1747
01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:40,400
It's not a chess board, but like that round thing and you see like those monsters fighting.

1748
01:33:40,400 --> 01:33:41,400
Yes.

1749
01:33:41,400 --> 01:33:42,400
That's Phil Tippett.

1750
01:33:42,400 --> 01:33:43,400
Yes.

1751
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:48,840
This is a movie, Mad God, that he has been working on for 30 years.

1752
01:33:48,840 --> 01:33:50,880
This is like his own personal project.

1753
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:53,000
Wow, that's so long.

1754
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,920
I'm not saying like he spent 30 years straight doing this.

1755
01:33:56,920 --> 01:34:03,940
The whole movie, it looks like he had built and made these sets, these miniatures in

1756
01:34:03,940 --> 01:34:05,620
his garage.

1757
01:34:05,620 --> 01:34:08,540
This was like something that he did in his free time.

1758
01:34:08,540 --> 01:34:14,900
He did it as like a passion project to kind of tell the story that he wanted to.

1759
01:34:14,900 --> 01:34:18,380
This is definitely his vision because the movie is very gross.

1760
01:34:18,380 --> 01:34:20,380
It's the best way to describe it.

1761
01:34:20,380 --> 01:34:23,180
Yeah, all the pictures I just saw were mellow.

1762
01:34:23,180 --> 01:34:28,220
It's very like gross, graphic, bloody, slimy.

1763
01:34:28,220 --> 01:34:33,420
Essentially it's like everything that he was never allowed to do in the commercial

1764
01:34:33,420 --> 01:34:34,420
world.

1765
01:34:34,420 --> 01:34:41,240
He gave himself the freedom and the chance to like make something fun and interesting for

1766
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:42,240
himself.

1767
01:34:42,240 --> 01:34:44,500
Like this is definitely his passion project.

1768
01:34:44,500 --> 01:34:45,500
Nice.

1769
01:34:45,500 --> 01:34:46,500
Yeah.

1770
01:34:46,500 --> 01:34:50,180
I like that you're finding a way to relate it and I'm just like, "Lagally blonde!"

1771
01:34:50,180 --> 01:34:55,140
A-m-c-plus is where you can watch it or you can rent or buy it.

1772
01:34:55,140 --> 01:34:59,940
If you're watching the vampire list set, I've been hearing this really good.

1773
01:34:59,940 --> 01:35:02,380
While you're there, check out Mad God.

1774
01:35:02,380 --> 01:35:07,240
And probably don't watch it in a public setting like I did by accident.

1775
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:11,980
And you can find us on many various social medias.

1776
01:35:11,980 --> 01:35:17,260
On Instagram, in TikTok, we are at development purgatory on Blue Sky.

1777
01:35:17,260 --> 01:35:20,380
We are at Dev purgatory.

1778
01:35:20,380 --> 01:35:25,020
You can also help us out directly by going to our Patreon.

1779
01:35:25,020 --> 01:35:28,780
I forget to mention the perks of being on the Patreon.

1780
01:35:28,780 --> 01:35:33,580
The perks is ad free episodes and you get to see the full video recording.

1781
01:35:33,580 --> 01:35:34,580
Unfiltered.

1782
01:35:34,580 --> 01:35:38,740
Yeah, the full video recording of our sessions, check it out there.

1783
01:35:38,740 --> 01:35:41,620
I don't know if that's a good thing, but it's out there.

1784
01:35:41,620 --> 01:35:46,180
I don't think it is, but I'm sure people out there enjoy it.

1785
01:35:46,180 --> 01:35:50,300
I think the biggest perk is like getting the ad free episodes.

1786
01:35:50,300 --> 01:35:53,460
If you can't support us there, completely understandable.

1787
01:35:53,460 --> 01:35:54,860
There are other ways that you can do so.

1788
01:35:54,860 --> 01:36:00,060
You can rate and review our podcast on your pod catcher of choice.

1789
01:36:00,060 --> 01:36:05,620
And just tell your friends, family, anyone you know who is just wanting to know about film

1790
01:36:05,620 --> 01:36:06,780
history.

1791
01:36:06,780 --> 01:36:10,260
And I guess this season, stop motion history.

1792
01:36:10,260 --> 01:36:13,220
They may learn something new that they may have never known before.

1793
01:36:13,220 --> 01:36:16,620
I definitely learned a lot of new things whenever I do these episodes.

1794
01:36:16,620 --> 01:36:22,500
It's nice for two people who actually are very big film history nerds to learn, but also

1795
01:36:22,500 --> 01:36:24,220
it's fun to educate each other.

1796
01:36:24,220 --> 01:36:25,740
Thanks for coming along for the ride.

1797
01:36:25,740 --> 01:36:27,540
Yeah, thank you.

1798
01:36:27,540 --> 01:36:31,300
And we'll see you on the big beach in the sky.

1799
01:36:31,300 --> 01:36:32,300
Go watch your movie.

1800
01:36:32,300 --> 01:36:33,300
Go watch your movie.

1801
01:36:33,300 --> 01:36:36,300
♪ Son your pony down in history ♪

1802
01:36:36,300 --> 01:36:38,680
(upbeat music)