1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,160 You know, all these things are experiential. 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:03,760 They're all different mysteries 3 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:05,520 as how we would frame it in witchcraft. 4 00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:08,960 And mysteries is like how I was talking about like with dreams, 5 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,120 you know, this sort of like, 6 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:13,840 there's this genus aqua quality to certain dreams 7 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:17,720 that are prophetic or are a spirit visitation. 8 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,520 And while I can't properly explain what that quality is, 9 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,720 if you've had an experience with it, 10 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,920 we can kind of talk about it and kind of understand what it is. 11 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,800 And you're both kind of on the same page 12 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,200 because you've experienced the same mystery, the same experience. 13 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,000 These things are essentially techniques trying to push you 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,600 in the direction of figuring it out for yourself 15 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:40,600 and what works for you. 16 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,640 Welcome to the Re-Patterning Podcast, 17 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,720 where we believe your mind body system is your domain 18 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:47,640 and that choosing the beliefs, habits, 19 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,680 and patterns that best support you is your birthright. 20 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:52,200 I'm your host, Arden Lee, 21 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,000 creator of the Re-Patterning Project, 22 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,200 an eight week course in learning to free yourself 23 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:57,560 from the patterns of your past 24 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,440 and program your mind for your dreams of the future. 25 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,560 Join me for these extraordinary conversations 26 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,680 as we unpack the keys to creating our reality. 27 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:12,040 Hello everyone and welcome back to the Re-Patterning Podcast. 28 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,640 I'm so excited to dive in to today's conversation 29 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:16,920 with today's guest. 30 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,840 But before I do that, I just wanna let everyone know 31 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:21,480 since you've been listening to this podcast 32 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:23,080 for a little while now, presumably. 33 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,080 And you may have heard about the eight week course, 34 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,560 the Re-Patterning Project that inspires these conversations. 35 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,800 I wanted to let you know that we are now enrolling 36 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,160 for a start on September 13th. 37 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,440 So we start on September 13th, 38 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,080 we go for eight weeks and we cover all of the ways 39 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,200 that we can understand our mind body, 40 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 human operating system, the way that we learn our patterns, 41 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,040 how we take on our beliefs and mindsets 42 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,720 and how we can adapt and change them. 43 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,320 We're using our will in order to become our favorite versions 44 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,480 of ourselves if you've enjoyed some of the things 45 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,560 that we've been talking about in these conversations. 46 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,600 If you feel like you wanna be a deeper part of the community, 47 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,960 those doors are open, you can reach out to me, 48 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,920 you can find us at therepatterningproject.com 49 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:12,800 or on any of my social media. 50 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,040 Reach out, say hi, we'll have a conversation 51 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,280 and we'll see if it's right for you. 52 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,280 All right, and now I'm so excited to introduce today's guest. 53 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,520 Today we are gonna be speaking with Mat Orin, 54 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:29,400 who is the author of The Psychic Witch, 55 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:34,400 as well as The Psychic Art of Terror and Mastering Magic. 56 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,400 He is also the co-host of a podcast called The Circle is Podcast. 57 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,840 Podcast, get it, it's a joke. 58 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,560 With Rachel True, who you may also know, 59 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,040 has having been one of the stars of the movie The Craft. 60 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:51,640 And he teaches at a whole lot of different, 61 00:02:51,640 --> 00:02:53,400 and I was asking him just before this, 62 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,360 should I mention some of the places you teach? 63 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:56,960 And he's like, oh, there's so many. 64 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,960 His books have been translated into over 13 languages. 65 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,200 His work is everywhere around the occult community. 66 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,680 And he's someone that I have learned a great deal from. 67 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:09,240 I'm proud to call him a friend. 68 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,400 Welcome to The Repatterning Podcast, Mat Orin. 69 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,680 - Hi, I'm really excited to be here. 70 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,400 Thank you for having me on today. 71 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,360 - I'm so excited to have you here. 72 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,800 I have your work in psychic development. 73 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,400 I have to tell you when this book, Psychic Witch, 74 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,360 came through the mail and I opened it. 75 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,960 I immediately was like, wow, first of all, 76 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:32,960 it's so beautifully laid out. 77 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,520 (laughs) 78 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,080 And the illustrations also are really, really gorgeous. 79 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:43,080 And it's such a clear format made with all of these 80 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:47,160 really, clearly delineated exercises for psychic development. 81 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:49,640 And what I'm interested in chatting about today 82 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,280 is thinking of psychic development as one more way 83 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:56,480 that we can repattern, that we can train our minds 84 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,760 to do things that we previously didn't think that we can do. 85 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,760 So I'd love for you to share a little bit 86 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,360 about how psychic development is something 87 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,160 that people can train in themselves. 88 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,440 - Oh yeah, absolutely. 89 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,840 I'm a big proponent that everyone is psychic. 90 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,680 They may not be actively psychic all the time, 91 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:15,040 but I do believe it's a natural human ability. 92 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,760 And most of us have that kind of dormant in us. 93 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,440 And I think it's kind of programmed out of us as a society. 94 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,000 But I do believe from my own personal experience 95 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,880 and from training other people, 96 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,520 that it is something that can be developed and can be awoken. 97 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,680 - And share with us, what are some indicators 98 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,840 that people might possess a psychic ability 99 00:04:37,840 --> 00:04:40,720 that is sort of like an inborn natural talent? 100 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,040 What are things that people who are maybe otherwise 101 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,000 on a wake-in to a cultism might, 102 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,760 but maybe they're listening to this, right? 103 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,880 What are some indicators that they might have even, 104 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,000 yes, everyone can train, 105 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,160 but what are some signs that they might have 106 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,400 more of a natural talent? 107 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,200 - You know, I think it's gonna vary for everyone. 108 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,480 I think everyone's wired a little bit differently. 109 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,760 So, you know, certain clear senses 110 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,400 are gonna be stronger than others. 111 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,040 But I think like even the most average person 112 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,160 has had those psychic experiences where like, 113 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:13,800 you're thinking of someone you haven't talked to 114 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,400 in a really long time and then they call you 115 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:18,840 or you're thinking about a topic and then suddenly 116 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:21,800 you see it everywhere, even if you've never spoken about it, 117 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,760 you know, and then I differentiate 118 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,920 to psychic ability and intuition. 119 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,600 And I think people are a little bit more tuned 120 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,800 into intuition naturally than psychic ability. 121 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,320 But I think we mostly see psychic ability predominant 122 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,640 in children, particularly up to about the age seven. 123 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,960 You have children that have imaginary friends 124 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,560 or that have like monsters under their beds, you know, 125 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,120 or like, you know, have experiences where like, 126 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,400 oh, they're talking to grandma that they've never met 127 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,600 and like bring out all these details. 128 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:56,600 I think that like as a society, 129 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,680 like I said, it's kind of programmed out of us. 130 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,400 One of the things I talk about in psychic, 131 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,240 which is that I found totally independently 132 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:04,720 but I was like, oh, these are connected. 133 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,440 In sociology, around seven is when the child like realizes 134 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,360 that people have opinions of them 135 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,000 and how they conduct themselves and act 136 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,600 and what they say forms how people think about them. 137 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,160 So I think that's when we kind of start self-policing 138 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,600 and we start kind of repatterning in not a good way, you know, 139 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:29,640 to fit in a little bit more and to be more accepted 140 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,360 among other people, whether that's adults 141 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,880 or older kids or even peers. 142 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:38,320 - Yeah, we become conditioned through our experiences 143 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:42,040 to shut down a lot of our natural intuitive gifts 144 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:44,880 if they're deemed in any way like unacceptable 145 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:47,280 or if we feel like they're gonna get us bullied 146 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:48,560 or things like that, right? 147 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:49,640 - Yeah, absolutely. 148 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,640 And, you know, I think part of it too is parents unintentionally 149 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,520 trying to calm their children down and not scare them. 150 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,840 Like, you know, when the kids are talking about things 151 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:04,120 in their room or you know, like having imaginary friends, 152 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,560 it's very natural for parents to A, B like, 153 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,640 oh, that's just your imagination or it's not real. 154 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:12,240 And, you know, while it's done with good intentions, 155 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:16,080 I think sometimes that, you know, you listen to your parents 156 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,360 so you start turning something off within you. 157 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:20,960 - You know, I just thought of something. 158 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:23,320 When I was a kid at summer camp 159 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,040 and I must have been like maybe seven or eight years old, 160 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,240 I had no idea how I got this notion into my head, 161 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,800 but I somehow began to believe that I had the ability 162 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,920 to tell people what animal they had been in their past life. 163 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:39,120 And it got to a point where like this got around the camp 164 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,520 and everyone started like, and in my mind, 165 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,760 and you know, granted this was a memory from a long time ago, 166 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,880 but in my mind, I can, I just remember like hundreds of people 167 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,840 and me kind of like just deciding what, 168 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,520 and I actually got really embarrassed about that 169 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,280 like later on in my life, like in my 20s, 170 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:55,520 like what was I thinking or whatever? 171 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,160 And now I look back at that and I'm like, I wonder 172 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,720 because it turns out like I have certain, 173 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,760 I do have certain gifts for being able to see certain patterns 174 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,000 in people and like, you know, detecting which blood, 175 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,200 which is not something I've been formally trained in, 176 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,560 something I wanna get trained in 177 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,600 because I feel like I have a natural aptitude for seeing that. 178 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,520 And now I'm like, I wonder if I was, I wonder if I was right. 179 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,080 (laughs) 180 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,080 - And I love, you know, like in the book, I quote, 181 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:24,120 "Lady Cersei" who is a traditional witchcraft elder. 182 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:26,920 She has the saying that if you would learn the witch's way, 183 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,200 observe with care the child at play, 184 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,920 and like I think, you know, with both psychic ability 185 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,320 and magic, just like observing children 186 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,720 is one of the most enlightening to like understand 187 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:42,720 the sort of frame of mind to be like to both be receptive 188 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,520 and, you know, cast magic. 189 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:48,280 In the psychic art of terror, I even have an exercise 190 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,960 where it's like, you know, find a small child in your life 191 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:52,800 that knows nothing about terror 192 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,600 and, you know, have them pull a tarot card for you 193 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,720 and have them tell you what they see in the card, you know, 194 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,520 to gain like their psychic impression 195 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,040 because they have no idea what it means, you know. 196 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:05,880 - I love that. 197 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,320 - Yeah, you know, I was a weird kid. 198 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:10,040 You know, I'm sure you were a weird kid. 199 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:13,320 I think most of us who are drawn to this stuff 200 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,840 were weird children and a lot of it has parallels 201 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,600 with a lot of the things that we later ended up like, 202 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,040 you know, either devoting our lives to 203 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,280 or became a big part of our spiritual identity. 204 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:30,880 Like, I know that for me like I used to try to form little 205 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,760 cousins when I was in elementary school even, you know. 206 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,120 You know, I was one of those kids that made potions 207 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:41,720 and I just, I've always been kind of drawn to it 208 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,880 a little bit more than even my peers. 209 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,000 And I think that would be another indication 210 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,600 of like psychic ability, like you were asking. 211 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,120 Like, it's just that kind of natural draw to these things. 212 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,320 I think is an indication in itself, 213 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:58,160 whether you have training or knowledge in it or not. 214 00:09:58,160 --> 00:09:59,000 - Yeah. 215 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:01,200 - You know, and then there's people like my father, 216 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,680 my father and my mother, but specifically my father 217 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,360 who is probably the most psychic person 218 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,480 I've ever met in my whole life, 219 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,600 but he doesn't own it, he doesn't claim it, 220 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,720 he doesn't like, he's almost afraid of it. 221 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,560 And it's like this weird denial he has with it 222 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,040 because he's like a born again Christian or whatever. 223 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,360 He'll say things and then it'll happen that day, you know, 224 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,240 like exactly, you know, as he just, you know, 225 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,240 it was kind of spitballing it. 226 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,760 And I think that's like another kind of sign 227 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,400 of like a quote unquote natural like psychic 228 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,080 or someone with inclined psychic abilities 229 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,320 is that they just kind of know things 230 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:42,000 or recognize patterns like you were saying that develop. 231 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,680 I think like people with various of the dreams 232 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:48,080 also tend to have a more of an inclination 233 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,720 to psychic ability and quicker development 234 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,400 because they have such a rich inner world 235 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,040 and that's such a major part of all of this. 236 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,000 You know, I really strive as you know 237 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,600 to bring people back to imagination 238 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,280 and re-embracing the power of imagination. 239 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,280 And I think that like that can lead to spiritual psychosis 240 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,880 as well, but I think like it's important to understand 241 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,840 that like all imagination is not necessarily like 242 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,160 just flights of fancy or delusion. 243 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,240 And not all delusion is connected to psychic ability. 244 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,840 - Yeah, that's a great topic by the way. 245 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:28,840 What, how do you figure out or discern the line 246 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,400 between delusion that can potentially, you know, 247 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,240 lead one down the path to a spiritual crisis 248 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,920 or you know, just like having a whole false narrative 249 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,600 versus what is the information we can trust? 250 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,680 - Yeah, so this is kind of hard once again. 251 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:44,720 So like all of these things, 252 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,560 none of them are like one size fits all for everyone 253 00:11:47,560 --> 00:11:49,480 because everyone is wired differently 254 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,760 and a lot of things come to people differently. 255 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,600 And my answer are people usually don't like, 256 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:58,760 which is meditation and journaling 257 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,200 or something like that, something where you're record keeping 258 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:05,400 and you're learning how your mind works. 259 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,040 The example I usually give is have you ever had a dream 260 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,560 where like a past loved one comes to you 261 00:12:12,560 --> 00:12:14,640 or a dream that's prophetic 262 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:19,640 and like there's a different quality to those dreams 263 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640 they feel different and you can't really explain it. 264 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,240 Like we don't really have the language for it 265 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,800 but if you've experienced it, you know there's a different 266 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:32,920 quality to it and if someone else has had it just like this, 267 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:35,720 like they can have a frame of reference 268 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,240 of what you're talking about, you know, 269 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,040 because they have their own personal experience. 270 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:42,800 So I think with psychic ability, it's a lot like that. 271 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,640 It's a lot of like finding how information comes to you 272 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,160 and also record keeping like well how accurate was it 273 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,960 in the long run, you know? 274 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,840 And you can start to see patterns of like, 275 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,760 oh like when it's accurate there's this feeling 276 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,240 or there's this quality to the information 277 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,680 versus this which usually isn't. 278 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:08,520 Another thing that I always tell people to look out for 279 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,800 is anything that is a projection based 280 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,080 if it's about someone else as well as things 281 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:21,080 that are self-glorifying in ways that maybe like 282 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,320 are more egotistical and I think that comes more 283 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,040 to like spirit communication more than anything. 284 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,720 You know, I have spirits that like are constantly 285 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:33,720 are like no you're wrong, like you're just straight up 286 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,120 wronged about this and I think that's you know 287 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,600 a good reality check as well as just having people 288 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,280 in your life whether they're in person or not 289 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,560 but people that you trust even if it's an online community 290 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:50,000 that can kind of rope you back in when it seems like 291 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,800 you're going a little bit overboard or in a direction 292 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,600 that's a little bit unhealthy 293 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:57,960 because I think you know like for example 294 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,400 like not necessarily about this topic 295 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,120 but my husband is usually a good like he can see things 296 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,480 in me before I can see them myself, you know 297 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:11,160 whether it's certain patterns or qualities or behaviors 298 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:13,280 so I think like having other people in your life 299 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,760 as a good sounding board can also help whisper 300 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:20,920 to psychosis and really new and back to reality. 301 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,520 - Yeah, yeah that's so true and I love what you said 302 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:27,600 also about really knowing ourselves in our own patterns 303 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:30,720 you know something we were just speaking about 304 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,400 like the idea of you know 305 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,960 warding off psychic attack and something that I had experienced 306 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,040 when I had an attack happen to me in recent months 307 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,520 was I noticed that there were certain thoughts 308 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,880 and impulses in me where I was like this is not like me 309 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:47,920 like there was one where you know 310 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,720 and I've said it on this podcast number of times 311 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,520 I always encourage people to question me or to you know 312 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,160 don't just take what I say as an authority 313 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,960 like always like if there's something that you're curious about 314 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,440 always ask always question always feel free to you know 315 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:04,280 tell me to get lost or whatever you know 316 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,680 like I'm not the only teacher out there or whatever 317 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,720 and I felt myself feeling like that 318 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,200 like don't question me like how dare you question my experiences 319 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,440 or whatever and thank goodness I caught myself you know 320 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,760 because it's so scary thinking about how there is a 321 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,000 there is a potential for that delusion to set in 322 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:24,880 and how deep because I've been doing this work 323 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,280 every patterning now for like about a decade 324 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,040 and like it's it's scary like if I had not done that work 325 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,720 if I did not know myself as well as I do 326 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,800 like I don't want to even think about what would happen 327 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,560 because sometimes like it can feel real right 328 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,680 yeah and that's you know the Oracle of Delphi 329 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,680 like they said above it was know that I self 330 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,160 and I mentioned that I think briefly in psychic which 331 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,200 but that's you know people have asked like Mat 332 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,560 when are you gonna teach about spirits 333 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,440 when are you gonna teach about like spirit work 334 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,640 and deity and stuff like a I keep it like open 335 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,880 because it's a beginner but like my emphasis 336 00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,280 particularly with psychic which is to get to know your own 337 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,560 spirit before you start even interacting with any other 338 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,120 spirits because I think that like spirits will also use 339 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,000 things against you if they're not a good spirit you know 340 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,880 or they they want to somehow manipulate you 341 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,880 because I mean spirits are like people right 342 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,320 like there's all kinds of people with all kinds of 343 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,960 different motives and that's why you know 344 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,760 a lot of you see in a lot of online discourse 345 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,400 it's a popular thing to say that like oh psychology 346 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,200 or self-help or self-development or self-work 347 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,760 or spirituality has nothing to do with magic 348 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:41,760 and I agree on some level you don't need any of that for magic 349 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,080 but I think that like as a magician 350 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,520 as a magical practitioner even a psychic 351 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,760 being clear on who you are understanding yourself 352 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,120 understanding where your weaknesses lie 353 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,000 you know where your vulnerabilities are 354 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,440 where your strengths are are you going to serve you 355 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,200 immensely like when it comes to magic or psychic ability 356 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,600 as well as just your personal life and I think that's like 357 00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:07,920 one of the things that like I'm sorry 358 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:09,640 I'm nerdy now I'm going on a tangent but 359 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:11,840 please note out 360 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,600 I'll just her Crowley when he did the forward to 361 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,320 the mother's translation of the ours goaisha you know 362 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,400 he has this quote that he's criticized about a lot 363 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,840 which is that the demons of the goaisha are just 364 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,400 parts of your mind right and I think there's a 365 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:28,120 truth in that I mean aside from like the hermetic 366 00:17:28,120 --> 00:17:31,240 like as above so below as within so without you know 367 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,440 I think it's more about like there's something in you 368 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:37,720 that resonates with all of those demons you know 369 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,680 and so like learning you know whether you go through 370 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,000 the HGA whether you take that as literal or metaphorical 371 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,200 you know but this idea of like binding your demons 372 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,320 like having it to where your demons are 373 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,600 your inner demons are all under control 374 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,760 then external demons can't use their powers of influence 375 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,040 against you in that area in that realm 376 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,680 yes yes because they're literally like the 377 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,560 neural pathways that you use the most often are 378 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,720 the ones that are most vulnerable so it's like you 379 00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:12,000 know it's so much easier to like if you if you cast 380 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:13,200 on someone that they're going to have like a 381 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:15,760 crazy bender of a weekend and destroy their life 382 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:17,440 or whatever like it's easier to do that to 383 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:19,680 someone who has a propensity for you know 384 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,080 addiction and someone who's like some vegan 385 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:26,000 new age t totaler or whatever like because the pathway is there 386 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,120 well and then even then like that's why you know it's so trendy 387 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,920 and it's so overused and over abused but like 388 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,480 the idea of like young young shadow work 389 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:36,960 I mean because it's so overhyped and it's become 390 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,840 it's also turned into things that it never was meant to be 391 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:44,400 but this idea of like the shadow being things that like we don't recognize 392 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,840 you know so a lot of people are like oh weren't you conscious of your shadow 393 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,160 like no like because it's my shadow 394 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:54,560 but you know the right it's literally your blinders 395 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:59,360 but like the the constantly doing self inquiry constantly 396 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,320 evaluating yourself and striving to be a better person 397 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:07,360 and being willing to work on your own personal flaws is going to serve you 398 00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:11,360 in these ways because you know a lot of times in my experience a lot of these 399 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:15,600 like love and light new age people end up having the darkest shadows and the 400 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,000 darkest demons and we're constantly seeing that unfold 401 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:24,160 you know I mean all the way up to like de-packed Houtra you know 402 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,960 and his whole thing so I think there's definitely something about 403 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,920 while magic may not be inherently about self-development 404 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:41,520 I think that they go hand in hand in a path to not destroy yourself with magic 405 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,640 because I think magic and spirits exacerbate 406 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,680 whatever is going on with you and your life 407 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:51,120 I mean that was the whole point of the movie of the craft right like 408 00:19:51,120 --> 00:19:56,880 right yeah all right yeah and I'll push even further back on that narrative 409 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,920 because I really think that that self-knowledge and knowing what patterns 410 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,840 we have those patterns and mindsets inform our desires they 411 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,240 inform what we believe is possible for us and like how can you say 412 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:14,320 that oh that has nothing to do with magic when it's literally 413 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:20,400 informing what magic you choose to cast this is a huge thing that I'm talking about 414 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,760 because if you are running patterns and you're trying to you know your patterns 415 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:29,520 are essentially strategies for getting the things that you want right for 416 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,400 earning love and safety for earning security whatever all the things that 417 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,600 we are seeking as humans and so often those are conditioned into us in ways 418 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,760 that are misguided you know so we people please when we want to earn love or 419 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,440 whatever instead of having love for ourselves you know we take on the and 420 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,680 and that's essentially kind of what repatterning is it's looking at these 421 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,800 strategies we're using and taking those out and reinst like 422 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,640 installing in their place the strategies that actually get us the things that 423 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,680 we're looking for by making those conscious and choosing a thousand percent 424 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:07,440 well I'm not someone that's constantly you know going on the internet and being 425 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,680 like oh my magic so big and bad and like my magic always gets results and 426 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:17,440 you know I am at a point where my magic almost always works and part of that is 427 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:22,480 because I know what I'm casting for and I know that I want it and you know I'm 428 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:27,040 very big proponent to that both psychic ability and magic the biggest obstacle is 429 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,120 yourself and so I think a lot of times when people cast magic and they're not 430 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:35,680 seen results and they did everything correctly it's like well your will is not 431 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:41,360 there and it's not just about your personal willpower it's about having 432 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:46,320 you know and my work is very big on the self-being multiple aspects right so having 433 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,520 all of yourself aligned to know that you want it because a lot of times on a conscious level you 434 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:57,360 think you want something you know you think I absolutely want this but there's parts of you 435 00:21:57,360 --> 00:22:04,320 that don't want it or don't you know for example like like love magic or money magic would be the 436 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,280 best easiest examples to grab for where like you're like yes I want this I want this but then 437 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,400 there's part of you that's like I don't deserve this and that's so common and it sounds like 438 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:20,320 that's like what you're talking about like you know at least partially love Re-Patterning those 439 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:26,800 yeah those yeah and it's well it's also just that like if we don't if we don't really examine our 440 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,960 strategies that we're using to get what we want if we add magic to the mix with that then we're 441 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:38,240 just 10 xing those strategies that are already going in the wrong direction like I think whatever 442 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:45,680 spirits were looking out for me that I did not learn magic until I begin like my really magic like was 443 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:50,560 my real initiation into magic and my Re-Patterning journey were kind of one and the same and 444 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:56,720 because I just learned that for whatever reason you know going oh you should always start your intentions 445 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:03,280 with the word I right so I bought a lot so I thank God because like what you know back in the day before 446 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:09,280 like I used to be a pickup artist you know I can only I would have been like full on love which I'm sure 447 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:15,520 you know if if and I'm making the the reference to the Annabelle movie of course which I'm sure you 448 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,440 know but just for our listeners I'm not saying like every love which does this but like according 449 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:24,880 the movie you know she just she tries to I related so hard to that movie I was like I felt so 450 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:30,160 called out by it you know my former self like oh trying all these things to earn love and then 451 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:35,120 like being disappointed that no one actually like shows up for her and and cares for her so yeah 452 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:40,400 we're just we're just amplifying strategies that already don't work if we're doing that so I 453 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:45,600 don't know how anyone says like oh self development and spirituality has nothing to do with magic I 454 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:50,320 tell people all the time like sigil magic it will take you two minutes to learn and a lifetime to 455 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,600 master because it's not about making a sigil it's about what are you casting for and that's the part 456 00:23:55,600 --> 00:24:00,720 where it really comes in you have to think about it I think like you know I definitely agree and I 457 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,760 think that applies for a whole bunch of magical and psychic things across the board like one of the 458 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:11,040 things that I really emphasize in psychic which is this idea that like yes some of these things 459 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:18,000 seem seem basic they seem like beginner things but like like you said like it takes a lifetime 460 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:24,000 like like I'm still finding deaths in things that I'm like oh I didn't know like you know it it 461 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:30,560 went this far even just like grounding and centering like I'm constantly like coming across like oh I 462 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:37,600 see how this can be used in other avenues you know and I also think that like for example grounding 463 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,080 and centering especially the way that I teach it like I think it teaches you how to direct energy 464 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,320 and you don't even realize that that's what you're doing but you're learning what magic feels like 465 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:53,280 going through you and moving through you you know and I think that is helpful in in tons of areas 466 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,880 but yeah the starting things with I the first thing that popped into my head when you said that was 467 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:05,440 the movie labyrinth right from from the 80s like because you know she she has that scene where she like 468 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:10,800 does her dramatic prose from the book with her baby and she's like you know goblin king goblin 469 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,400 king you know take this child away but the goblins are like what the hell you know like that didn't 470 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,320 even start with the words I wish like what is that rubbed you know like do you know I literally 471 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:28,800 use that scene in the first module of my four week course myths and magic to talk about how like you 472 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:33,440 need to call on like there are these there are these beings who are they're just waiting for you to 473 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:38,240 say the magic words and then to come out of the woodwork and help you and they're like they're in their 474 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,040 chip that they can't you know they can't do it without your permission so you need to say so that's 475 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:48,480 so cool that you brought that up because I'm like that's that's like my my almost very first beginner 476 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:55,200 teachable moment when I teach folks magic so tell me also we talked about a little bit about like 477 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,480 what might be the signs that someone has natural psychic gifts I'm wondering what might be the signs 478 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,400 that someone has natural magical gifts because in the book you you do make some differentiation 479 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,040 between psychism and magic and obviously there's lots of overlap but how do you think you know 480 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:17,280 or do you think that they differ from the indicators of psychic ability and how so I don't think 481 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:23,200 they differ that much honestly my view and I know like a lot of people disagree because it's very broad 482 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:30,400 but my base belief from working magic and psychic ability like pretty much since I was a little kid 483 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:37,680 at least exploring it is that magical ability and psychic ability are the same thing like it's just 484 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:45,760 is it in reverse or forward you know are are you directing energy out to inform your environment or 485 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:52,240 are you receiving energetic information from your environment so it's input output you know and I think 486 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:57,600 you know a lot of the qualities that you would see that indicate that you're psychically gifted 487 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,840 would also indicate that you're magically gifted the problem is is that a lot of people end up 488 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:10,480 getting stuck in one or the other either you know output or input mode and so like I like I write 489 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:17,120 in the book you know like I have known many incredibly talented psychics that can give like the best life 490 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:23,040 advice really impressive information but they can't manifest for crap and likewise I've seen 491 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:29,920 magicians that can do like great feats of magic but they're like completely blocked off from any 492 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:36,960 sort of psychic ability or input or direction in their life and I think that like they both serve 493 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:44,160 each other you know like you need the guidance to help your direction with magic and I think magic 494 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,360 without that direction I don't know if I'm reading that clearly but I hopefully like that kind of 495 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:56,240 makes sense like I think that like aside from being able to feel the energies and interact more 496 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:02,000 directly with the spirits in the energy that you are working within magic I think that like things 497 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:10,160 like divination and like looking into things of like you know I do a lot of divination before I do 498 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:15,360 magic too you know of like is this the best way to do it you know I I'm not going to let a bunch 499 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:20,880 of cards bully me around but I am going to listen to their guidance of like oh no maybe I should move 500 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:30,000 my plan this way and go with this strategy first I hope that makes sense yeah no it absolutely 501 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,000 does I think I'm I'm one of those folks who magic started working for me almost right away when I 502 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:42,080 started doing it but I had to really open up more to the receiving information and even to this day 503 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:47,520 you know I rely a lot on divination on cardamansy and you know my joke is like I can't hear with my 504 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,560 pendulum you know and funny enough like sometimes even just putting it in my hand and getting into 505 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,200 that state allows the messages to come through and then I'm just confer oh did you say this yes no 506 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:05,840 you know yeah it really serves me like this is how it like serves me outside of magic it serves me in 507 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:11,520 training people in magic because like in person like when I'm teaching something fundamental like 508 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:16,880 a circle casting like one of the things that I'll do in person is I will cast a circle with the 509 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,720 people that I'm teaching inside the circle to feel the change in the energy and then I'll I'll 510 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:27,760 take it down and then I'll cast a circle with them outside of the circle with me inside of it to 511 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,480 feel the difference of energy and then when they go to do it aside from feeling those different 512 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,000 things like I have had this phenomenon that has come with like developing my clair audience where 513 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:44,960 like when a circle is cast properly I'll start to hear that tonight is ring until the circle's lifted 514 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:52,000 so I can tell energetically like if they cast it or not and that can help me to kind of like be like 515 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,600 okay well like let's let's work on this a little bit so so for my own magic that's also helpful too 516 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:06,240 because I know when the energy is flowing I know I think even even with magic you kind of naturally 517 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,240 start developing psychic ability at least a little bit when you call in spirits when when you call 518 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:18,880 in spirits and they come you feel them like there is a change in the atmosphere at the least you know 519 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:24,960 and I think it's hard to not notice that but it's one of those things of like you know that is a psychic 520 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:31,280 perception of something related to magic and I think psychic ability can help you be more precise and 521 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,480 make sure that everything's going according to plan and I think that like which was the point of my 522 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:42,640 second book mastery magic you know magic can be used to enhance your psychic ability you know so 523 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:49,520 you can essentially create this kind of circuit of like you know development that just kind of helps 524 00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:54,080 you level up and level up and level up but as long as you're doing that that inner work and that 525 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:59,840 self-development I think that like that is incredibly important and that's why like I love hearing 526 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,320 like about the work you're doing I think that's really that's really cool and it's really needed 527 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,360 whether it's even for magic or not just you know in people's lives in general I think that's great 528 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,520 yeah thank you for that that means a lot and I want it to be accessible to people who don't who don't 529 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:20,240 work magic because it doesn't it doesn't have to be inherently magical like understanding the way that 530 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,040 are our human mind body system operates but but man if we're gonna do magic we better 531 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:31,600 we really better know it but I'll go ahead and I'll put myself on record is saying I'm 532 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,000 I'm one of those people who has a hard time detecting that change in the atmosphere 533 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:39,920 and actually like and I have called on spirits before and I've even begun to be able to 534 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:45,440 visually perceive them in you know in a scrying device like a like a crystal ball or glass ball in my case 535 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:52,480 but I rely a lot on like the pendulum to be like are you here is this you is your true name and then 536 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:57,600 you know the cards for the the messages and things like that so and I attribute that a lot to 537 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:04,320 my trauma response overall was desensitization my body just shut off after years of me essentially not 538 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,240 paying attention to it kind of yelling at me being like we don't like all these things are happening 539 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:15,200 to us and my being unable to protect me and my body from that and so I'm I would actually love to know 540 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:22,240 even for myself like what do you recommend for someone who who is on that path and is learning 541 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:27,360 magic and is communicating with spirits and has you know some successful results but still you know 542 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:33,680 sometimes feels a little like a fraud because it's like are they here I don't know yeah you know so 543 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:37,760 this goes into what I was saying about like how people are wired differently you know and it's not 544 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:44,720 just even naturally wired it's it's things like trauma it's things like neuro divergence you know 545 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:50,480 everyone's wired a little bit differently you know neuro divergence is a whole spectrum I am a 546 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:57,360 big proponent on you know because one of the things that I got a lot of feedback on with psychic which 547 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:03,040 was like oh I have the aphantasia and sometimes that's true sometimes it's not and they just had to 548 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:09,280 like keep working at it you know in the second book I do have techniques for if you do have aphantasia 549 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:14,880 or difficulty visualizing but like I'm like you're getting hung up on the visualization part right you're 550 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:22,160 getting hung up on that like I'm teaching all of these clairs for you you know I'm very big on 551 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:29,920 develop what your week at work on developing that know what your strengths are but then try to work 552 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:38,080 on your weaknesses so I have the opposite as you so like my trauma and my neuro divergence like it 553 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:47,680 makes me overly sensitive right so like I feel things atmospherically like quickly and I feel things 554 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:54,320 in other people quickly that doesn't mean that okay let me explain it a little bit different with 555 00:33:54,320 --> 00:34:00,560 a different kind of reference so people tend to be surprised for example that like internal 556 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,920 clairvoyance was the hardest thing for me to but to develop visualization was the hardest thing for 557 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:12,400 me to develop I had to put a lot of work into it and it's still not my strength it's still not my 558 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:19,040 strongest of my clairs and of my senses so I don't think there's like a right or a wrong way of 559 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,760 like if you're not feeling the spirits in the room I don't think that's necessarily like you're not 560 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:30,560 psychic or you're not doing it correctly you know I think everyone has their strengths and their 561 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:36,640 weaknesses so for example your pendulum you know you're probably better at a pendulum than I am you 562 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:43,120 know because those are those are different psychic responses going on you know so like I think 563 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:49,680 that having divination there's a reason that divination developed so vastly and has been around for 564 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:55,120 so long is because it is that sort of like double checking on things you know and I do think that it 565 00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:01,040 is a skill in itself and it is a psychic skill um I think I wrote it in in the psychic art of 566 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:07,040 tarot how I believe that like working with tarot for example just in general just working with it 567 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:12,880 is gonna make you more psychic it is going to just open those pathways naturally whether you intend to 568 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,920 or not and I think the same is true with a pendulum I think the same is true with magic I think 569 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:25,120 when you consciously put effort into developing things then you kind of have an advantage in those 570 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:31,120 though so and I'm not trying to say that like aphantasia is not real it is absolutely real you know 571 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:37,440 and difficulty with it is real but I think that a putting effort into things that you're not good at 572 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:43,280 but be also finding what works for you is very very important I don't know if I answered your question 573 00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:49,440 or if I just went on a total tangent no I I think that was a great answer and I I actually like that 574 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,560 was really affirming for me to to know that just because I'm not good at perceiving things in one 575 00:35:54,560 --> 00:36:00,080 way doesn't mean I'm not good at getting accurate information in the ways that I am yeah yeah no 576 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,360 that was that was super helpful I'd also like to chat about Claire audience too because we've had 577 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:11,040 a number of guests on the podcast who have dissociative identities or multiple selves within the body 578 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:19,600 and I'm curious for folks with that experience how would you discern let me back it up a little bit 579 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,480 let me talk about like voice hearing first off so there are folks who have like natural voice hearing 580 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:30,960 how do you trust what information I guess is coming like internally versus externally yeah so this is 581 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:37,680 one of the things that used to annoy annoy me for a while and confuse me for a while when I was 582 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:42,960 developing my psychic ability is there were a lot of teachers that there's an psychic ability that 583 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:50,000 would write or teach that you will never hear external voices if you ever hear external voices then 584 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:57,600 you need to go seek help and that is absolutely not true I have known so many other mediums and 585 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:04,160 psychics too that it's like yes there's absolutely phenomenon where you externally hear voices 586 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:14,000 as well as internal voices which is how it tends to happen more my baseline for this of like kind of 587 00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:21,520 determining like is this a psychic phenomenon or is this something that may be out of my range of 588 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:29,520 expertise to to handle or speak on properly is a the nature of the voices you know like what are they 589 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:37,440 saying so are they are they belittling are they angry are they stressful or on the other hand are 590 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:44,560 they over flattering are they over grandizing I think either of those can be sort of a red flag 591 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:50,560 whether it is a psychic ability or not a psychic ability and I think either of those are kind of 592 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:58,880 like a check of like okay well somethings may not be completely copicetic with the information that's 593 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:08,320 coming through I think that I have kind of a weird kind of notion of differences as well when it comes 594 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,800 to spirits and people and things like that because I think we're all interconnected and we're all 595 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:20,000 intertwined a lot more than we realize I think the personality the ego personality is very big on 596 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:25,040 like I am a separate identity you know and I don't think that's always necessarily true on different 597 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:30,560 levels of reality which goes back to what I was saying about like demons and crawlies take on it being 598 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:36,400 like parts of your brain you know I think that like yes they are parts of our brain but that doesn't 599 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:43,120 mean that they're also external so I'm not an expert in these fields to be able to say what is or 600 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:50,160 isn't a clinical or a a certain diagnosis but I will say that like I think that it does get kind 601 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:57,360 of blurry unlike do these things overlap and what does that mean I think it's more about like 602 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:04,320 what is the spirit saying to you the voice that you're hearing what is it saying how is it presented 603 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:08,960 is this information something that can be verified something that's helpful something that 604 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:14,640 may even be challenging because it tells you that you're wrong you know which I've had many times 605 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:20,000 and it's very humbling but it ends up that yes a lot of times I am wrong about something you know 606 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:28,160 so I think it I think it depends I mean I think it's very case specific I'm also not an expert on like 607 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:35,280 multiple personalities or anything like that yeah I'm 100% with you on it being blurry and I actually 608 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:42,400 you know even based on some of the folks who are you know both have lived experience of dissociative 609 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,120 identities and are also clinicians like we had Katie Keach on last season who's both of those things 610 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:53,920 and the diagnostic process of that in traditional therapeutics is just like it's it's messed the F-Op 611 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:59,280 so like I'm not necessarily asking about like oh how do you know you need to diagnose this because 612 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,400 I take a much more sort of like holistic you know an indigenous informed look at things like like 613 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:09,280 actually you know multiple parts of souls like that can exist in a person and it doesn't need 614 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:15,760 to be a pathologized necessarily but I guess what I'm curious about is how if you if you experience 615 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:20,480 clair audience maybe you even experience like an abundance of clair audience because of of that 616 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,800 reason whether it's just having a door open to spirits or whether it's having multiple selves 617 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:32,640 how might you harness that for mastery and be able to use that the information that's coming to you 618 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:38,480 as a psychic gift like how do you train that ability how would you go about that it depends on if 619 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:43,200 your motive is spirit communication or whether it's receiving psychic information that presents 620 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:48,880 itself as a voice so this is also wait that's a fascinating distinction I hadn't even thought of that 621 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:54,320 so this is one of the things too is that like I think and this is going to sound super judgmental 622 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:59,520 and it's not meant to be judgmental it's just my personal observation and belief I think there's 623 00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:05,840 a lot of talented mediums that are not mediums they're psychics and I think that like they're picking 624 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:11,520 up on information about the person's life or the person themselves and what they know about their 625 00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:18,400 deceased person and very big on evidential mediumship that proves that you have connected with someone 626 00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:23,280 that is past because the person sitting in front of you doesn't even have that information or it's 627 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:30,240 like unknown to anyone but you know there's ways to develop clair audience that I talk about in the 628 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:38,080 book such as listening exercises like one of the ways that I developed it was just listening super 629 00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:46,160 slowly and that sounds really kind of lame but I picked it up from I think it it was something stupid 630 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:52,080 from my childhood some stupid movie that was about karate because like when I was a kid karate was 631 00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:57,760 the big craze in all the kids movies you know but it was something about like meditating and listening 632 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,840 very very closely and listening closer and listening closer and so like I would do that as an 633 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:10,080 exercise of like well one all in like capable of hearing and that I would start getting information 634 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:16,080 that way and I would start being able to pick up on like windess spirit once my attention I am a 635 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:23,600 proponent of you know a lot of times also of having that kind of tinnitus sense that like tells me 636 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:28,240 a spirit's trying to tap me on the shoulder and it's a little bit different than tinnitus because I've 637 00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:35,120 had it but it's a very specific pitch and always when I am like okay what like like what do you want 638 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:40,720 it stops you know which is always my confirmation that like this isn't just something going on with 639 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:48,800 my ears this is a phenomenon beyond anything like that wow that's a really helpful tip because I 640 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:53,120 every once in a while get a ringing in my ear but I've always attributed just to you know I lived in 641 00:42:53,120 --> 00:43:00,240 New York for 10 years I make music you know sometimes very loud or whatever so yeah and tinnitus is a 642 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:05,280 real thing you know and it does happen kind of randomly but like next time that happens like just stop 643 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:11,680 and be like what's up like what do you what do you want to tell me and see if you may not even 644 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:17,360 pick up on what the information is right away but sometimes just acknowledging it if it disappears 645 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:21,840 right when you acknowledge it for me that's like yes a spirit's trying to contact me if I'm not 646 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:28,720 picking up clear-audiently on it you know I get I get kind of dumb with my spirits too you know I 647 00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:33,360 am very big on like okay like here are the rules here are the guidelines this is how you need to 648 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,920 communicate with me it needs to be clear you know or also I'm not going to get the information 649 00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,960 and so you're wasting your time I'm wasting my time but if something is trying to communicate 650 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:47,600 with you and you you don't feel like you were necessarily getting the information from them 651 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:52,400 to the nation that's when you go to divination you're like okay well like let's use a pendulum let's 652 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:59,840 use terror let's use rooms to try to form a dialogue here and let's say like there's someone who's 653 00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:03,840 like the opposite of me like for me I've had to open up my sensitivity more but let's say that 654 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:09,600 there's like there's there are people out there who like have that overabundance of information 655 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:14,480 coming in and you just mentioned like one way is like to ask the spirits like to verbally dialogue 656 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:19,040 and say hey you need to make this clear or whatever but let's say for people who may have grown up like 657 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,960 again like afraid of their gifts you know like you were talking about especially like when there's 658 00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:28,160 influences of like school or organized religion or bullying or things like that how would you 659 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:36,160 recommend a person start training to be able to turn that kind of overabundance of psychic flow 660 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,920 that may have been perceived throughout most of their life is something in this threatening because 661 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:44,960 it makes them different or whatever how would you recommend that they fine tune that into something 662 00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:50,880 that they can use yeah yeah so that that's a great question and it's not just clear audience right 663 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:58,400 like it's a lot of it can be overwhelming including like you know like I have external clairvoyance 664 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,880 that's one of my strengths not internal about external like I see shadows I see lights I see 665 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:12,000 oras you know and that can be overwhelming and it can be exhausting at times too when you're just 666 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:18,880 trying to relax and chill so like a big part of like what I went to explore and learn in my psychic 667 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:24,320 training is how to turn that down and one of the techniques that I teach and psychic which well 668 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:30,240 there's kind of two ways right so like let me get a little anecdotal with this so I worked in 669 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:36,480 Salem for many many years as a professional psychic and terror reader and octobers are insane they 670 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,600 in less youth experience October in Salem you do not understand what I mean by it being insane but 671 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:48,720 it is insane like it's non-stop like you can barely walk on the street so you have tourists from all over 672 00:45:48,720 --> 00:45:55,200 and as a as a reader it's literally back to back all day like day in day out day in day out and I 673 00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:01,520 found myself like not just fatigued and burned out and stuff like that which I teach tyranny and 674 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:08,320 psychic which but like I found that like I couldn't shut it off afterwards like I was just on all day 675 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:15,040 and then I couldn't turn it off and it's like I need to rest and I'm not on the clock you know like 676 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,360 like business is done so one of the things that I did to kind of train that is I used the pevelovean 677 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:27,040 response right so like I started conditioning myself just like I would to tap into psychic ability 678 00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,040 like I teach and psychic which so you don't have to go through all the things and you can just kind of 679 00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:39,840 slip into it I did it for getting out of it too so I would use a ring a hematite ring and I would 680 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,880 program myself that like when I'd put it on like I'd be like I am not doing a readings I am not 681 00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:50,320 psychically open the shop is closed every time I would start a reading I would take the ring off and 682 00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:56,000 I would affirm to myself I am open for business I'm open for psychic ability so that kind of gate keeps 683 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:02,640 a little bit of like an on and off switch another technique that I teach in the book is treating it 684 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:09,920 like either a volume dial or like a faucet of information and using that empowered imagination 685 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:16,320 that visualization whether it's seeing it or feeling it or knowing it or affirming it to yourself 686 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:22,480 just this idea of like okay we need to like turn down the flow a little bit because sometimes it's 687 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,920 also too loud you know so you can't make out the information you need it just a little bit less a 688 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:33,200 little bit a little bit clearer and a little bit more precise so it can be helpful in that matter 689 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:37,920 so as you need to turn it up because you're like I'm just not getting it I'm not picking up on it 690 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:44,480 so I find those two specific techniques to be very very helpful particularly when it's like 691 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:53,120 clear audience things or clear-violence things or more intuitive things which I I link a lot of people 692 00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:58,560 like refer to being an empath or the empath skills I associate that more with the intuition side of 693 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:04,000 things the psychic side of things because that's another thing that can be super intense and I come 694 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:10,160 across a lot of like and people that identify as empaths and even people who teach it and write 695 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,800 about it where I'm like okay but you're not a good empath feeling anything strongly does not mean 696 00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:20,640 you're a good empath like learning your boundaries and learning how to like turn it off and not 697 00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:26,400 internalize things is what makes you a good empath you know actually that's a great segue because 698 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,680 I know we were also going to chat about folks who have neurodivergence and how ADHD can affect 699 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:37,360 like even exercises like meditation I know for me you know I have struggled sometimes with sitting 700 00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:43,360 down and training I find that I'm better at training magic when I'm actively working on a situation I 701 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:49,280 care about and like putting that energy there will kind of train my gifts automatically but yeah I'm 702 00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,160 not I'm not gonna lie like I have trouble even doing a daily like grounding and centering or things 703 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,960 like that and so I'm curious like what are your recommendations for yeah for folks with that 704 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:05,280 that kind of neurodivergence yeah yeah I mean it can be really tough and before I jump into that you 705 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:11,760 mentioned something that like in mastery magic I drive home this idea of enthusiasm and sincerity 706 00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:18,240 right those are gonna be your keys for magic and like both of those words have root etymologies 707 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:23,760 that are like magical or theologically related that a lot of people don't realize like enthusiasm is 708 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:32,880 to be installed by a god in theoism right enthusiasm is like the root of it um so I think that like 709 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:40,400 earnestly wanting to I don't think that there's necessarily a right or wrong way when it comes to your 710 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,280 practice as long as you're trying you have the enthusiasm you have the drive to do it which sometimes 711 00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:50,880 you don't always and some teachers like I know Jason Miller is very big on like just do it whether 712 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:57,280 you want to do it or not just do it for me a lot of the feedback that I got for example was the 713 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:02,480 very first exercise in psychic which because of the way that I worded it which is like learning the 714 00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:09,120 countdown and learning to count down from a hundred to zero three times in a row before moving on 715 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,840 and that's the word I should have used is before moving on so people didn't continue reading and 716 00:50:13,840 --> 00:50:20,960 realizing like what I say later about it which is that like with meditation you treat it like a gym 717 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:27,520 you treat it like like lifting weights right so your mind wandering for example is not necessarily 718 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:34,320 doing it wrong that is the meditation recognizing that my mind has wandered and then pulling it back 719 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:41,040 is what strengthens that focus right so cutting it into bite sizes so like instead of doing the 720 00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:47,680 hundred three times you know do ten once um and see if you can do that and then like as you get 721 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:54,000 better at that as your focus develops you know building on that for those of us who are got to get 722 00:50:54,000 --> 00:51:00,560 our weakles out you know can't necessarily sit still and you know close our minds and have that 723 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:06,320 attention span while meditative exercises like I mentioned are going to help strengthen that 724 00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:13,600 it can also be really helpful for the more ADHD minded to have something like the spiritual 725 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:20,240 technology that is in Catholicism and Buddhism and Hinduism which is like beads you know having 726 00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:26,560 something to physically touch and physically do and physically move through while you do it and 727 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,760 in the second book I have that as one of the exercises to replace it so you you can down touching the 728 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:38,160 beads because then you give your your monkey mind something to play with something to touch another 729 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:44,640 thing that can be helpful is learning that meditation is not just sitting down it's not just stillness 730 00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:51,360 it's not just clearing the mind and and having focused like for me the meditation that I'm the most 731 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:56,560 focused on is getting into the alpha brain wave state right which other people would say is the flow 732 00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:02,240 state um and for some people that's going to be dancing for some people it's going to be art for some 733 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:08,320 people it's going to be like my husband he he crochets and he knits you know and that's his meditation 734 00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:15,680 because it locks him into something that gets him into that flow state so I think it's okay to understand 735 00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:20,720 that everyone is different and different things are going to work for different people so explore 736 00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:26,640 you know put effort into things try things and then also realize when this isn't for me I need to 737 00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:31,040 find something else I need to find something different that is going to work for me because your 738 00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:36,960 practice in the end is your practice and the most important thing is not doing it right is having 739 00:52:36,960 --> 00:52:44,720 it work having it work for you so I mean like as long as you can get yourself into that state 740 00:52:44,720 --> 00:52:52,080 one of the things that like my husband talks about a lot and I talk about is that like as people 741 00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:59,680 who are kind of naturally psychic and are naturally kind of tuned in as well as like both pretty 742 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:06,320 not neurodivergent a lot of these things we just know how to do like like I just I know how to 743 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:15,040 disassociate and get into that alpha state you know so a lot of our as teachers is learning how to 744 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:21,040 present this to neuro typical people or even neurodivergent people to kind of figure out oh this is 745 00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:26,560 what we're doing in steps that it's like oh I can I can get to this place you know how do I teach 746 00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:32,160 someone something that I can just do naturally and so that's been our big challenge over the years 747 00:53:32,160 --> 00:53:40,080 as teachers and as writers because for me that's the alpha state is disassociating it's it's a focus 748 00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:46,320 to defecation that was a huge breakthrough moment for me actually in like in developing my 749 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,720 pendulum work is naturally like when you work with a pendulum you have to really make sure that you're 750 00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:56,480 not subconsciously influencing the answer by moving it and when I change from like train the alpha 751 00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:01,200 state like this you know oh gotta do that you know too much grasping to realizing it was just like oh 752 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:07,680 just disassociate from your arm I was like oh trust me I know how to disassociate from body parts 753 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:16,480 well and I like I have this thing where like I don't even see my point of consciousness as being 754 00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:22,160 in my head and like a lot of people are like really that's weird like I don't have a lot of internal 755 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:30,560 narration you know for me I feel more like a sim like I feel like I have this little like thing like 756 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:36,640 my thoughts my awareness is kind of more here and I channel it through my mouth and a lot of times I 757 00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:41,760 don't even know what I'm saying until it comes out of my mouth like I have the general idea the general 758 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:49,360 concept and so for me I naturally know how to disassociate and feel and just kind of like expand out 759 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:56,320 you know and not everyone has that frame of reference or understands it but there are ways that you 760 00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:04,800 can train yourself to reach those states but yeah it's all about like essentially you know I think a 761 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:11,040 lot of it is trying to point people in the direction of things you know all these things are 762 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:16,560 experiential they're all different mysteries is how we would frame it in witchcraft and mysteries 763 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:21,680 is like how I was talking about like with dreams you know this sort of like there's this genusic 764 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:29,520 quality to certain dreams that are prophetic or are a spirit visitation and well I can't 765 00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:35,840 properly explain what that quality is if you've had an experience with it we can kind of talk about 766 00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:43,440 it and kind of understand what it is I liken it a lot to psychedelic use this idea of like a going 767 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:48,400 on a mushroom trip or an acid trip you know before you have that experience you hear people talking 768 00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,400 about it you see it presented in the media and you have this kind of idea of what that experience 769 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:57,680 is going to be like and then when you actually have the trip you're like oh this is nothing you 770 00:55:57,680 --> 00:56:03,040 know this is not Alice in Wonderland this is not anything like I was experiencing and every every 771 00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:07,520 person on earth is going to have a different experience of tripping and what it was like for them 772 00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:12,560 and what their trip was but once you've had that experience you can talk about it to someone else 773 00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:17,520 who's had it and you're both kind of on the same page because you've experienced the same mystery the 774 00:56:17,520 --> 00:56:24,240 same experience and I think that like even alpha is like that you know it these these things are 775 00:56:24,240 --> 00:56:30,800 essentially their techniques trying to push you in the direction is figuring it out for yourself 776 00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:37,440 and what works for you yeah I couldn't agree more this has been such a wonderful conversation Mat 777 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:43,520 I'm gonna bring on Tommy to ask her question of you as we wrap up and we studied your book as you know 778 00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:48,960 we studied your book for two months in our advanced container so I'm super excited to hear what Tommy 779 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:55,440 has asked today yeah well I'll be honest I kind of wanted to ask about the circle is podcasts since 780 00:56:56,160 --> 00:57:00,800 I've started listening to that since we read the psychic which in our container but first of 781 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:07,680 like to know are there any plans for a season two in the near future for a circle is yes yes the 782 00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:14,080 the the difficulty at the moment is Rachel and I are both working on projects on our own 783 00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:22,800 um and it's pretty much a one-person show in the sense of like I do all the editing I do all the 784 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:28,320 like and if you you edit things you understand it's a lot of work it's a lot of work for every individual 785 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:34,240 episode and so like it's all about like just us getting to a point where we have the bandwidth 786 00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:40,320 but we have every intention to keep it going we just at the moment have a lot going on but yes we 787 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:47,840 absolutely it's not over we should probably get rolling on that soon so since our co-host is famous 788 00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:54,800 for being a fictional witch I'm curious say season two if you could have one actual fictional 789 00:57:54,800 --> 00:58:00,640 witch on as a guest who would it be or what fictional witch would you want to learn from I don't know 790 00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:09,440 about learn from but my answer would be Nancy from the craft that is my all-time favorite witchy icon 791 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:14,960 and you know like Rachel and I have talked about having her on because Rachel obviously knows her 792 00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:23,280 their friends um so that is like possibility but like the craft was for me a spiritual experience 793 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:31,040 as a child that was being raised in a very extremely evangelical penicostal household being able 794 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:37,360 to see that and see magic portrayed as sort of like a more realistic still horseshit but in more 795 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:44,320 realistic manner and seeing like these girls become empowered and like use their magic to 796 00:58:44,800 --> 00:58:52,640 get what they want you know um was very like oh like I want to be a witch too so for me it would be 797 00:58:52,640 --> 00:58:58,960 Nancy I I am one of those people like I love the character Nancy so much that I will defend her 798 00:58:58,960 --> 00:59:04,400 character to the death I can go on a whole long tirade about how Sarah is the villain in the movie 799 00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:13,120 and you know that she is the anti she is the patriarchal anti-feminist wet blanket in the movie 800 00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:18,240 yeah no I'm there's no surprise for me there that it's yet another witch from the craft that is 801 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:24,080 actually just listening to your omega institute retreats talk and talking about that child that 802 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:29,600 experience of finding the craft yeah like I just see it and it wasn't just the witchcraft I'm like 803 00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:34,240 oh those girls are having so much fun together like I want to come and just gal pals we don't have to 804 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:39,440 I don't have to make people bleed from their eyes or anything like that yeah well and like you know 805 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,920 I was talking about being a child informing pavins like that's totally that was one of the big 806 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:49,040 inspirations for it and it was very like we had no idea what the hell we were doing but it is very 807 00:59:49,040 --> 00:59:55,120 much like know your water and your fire you know like we had these I don't know it was silly but 808 00:59:55,120 --> 01:00:01,920 did your childhood coven ever like did anything ever come of that or I could did they ever inspire 809 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:08,000 an experience that like oh we might have tapped into something there no not my childhood experiences 810 01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:13,760 my first real experience was the story that I share in mastery magic of the beginning which I talk 811 01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:20,720 about in the omega episode of like my grandfather and using that silver raven wolf spell the anti-bullied 812 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:27,360 bull frog spell and having that work with such real results was my moment of like oh maybe this 813 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:34,640 isn't like a playful pretend thing like maybe this is real that that was my moment but before that 814 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:41,920 like I don't think anything really came of me and my little girlfriends playing witches and 815 01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:48,080 like is a feather stiff is a board like I think it was more of like that sort of natural inclination 816 01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:52,720 like I was saying that kind of draw that that magnetism because even though my gateway was something 817 01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:58,320 as silly as the craft you know it was still my first frame of reference for something like this 818 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:05,600 that wasn't like you know a green wicket witch I also come from like an evangelical background like 819 01:01:05,600 --> 01:01:11,280 Midwest and you know I love hearing the craft did exactly what my church and my parents always 820 01:01:11,280 --> 01:01:16,480 warned us about like you watch the craft you're gonna become a witch and you're gonna be in the devil's 821 01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:21,680 hands and haven't met the devil or anything but which is so funny because then when you get in 822 01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:26,240 witchcraft like a lot of things I would hear often is like oh you watch the craft and now you think 823 01:01:26,240 --> 01:01:31,760 you're a witch so it's like the opposite end of the spectrum you know once you're in but yeah 824 01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:37,040 that's why I'm so big on like yeah I did watch the craft and it did make me think I was a witch like 825 01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:43,120 that's why I'm totally like open of like yes my first experiences my first love like author love 826 01:01:43,120 --> 01:01:47,920 whistle for Raven Wolf was Scott Cunningham you know and I'm not ashamed of that at all I'm not 827 01:01:47,920 --> 01:01:53,840 embarrassed you know like everyone starts somewhere and even with silver Ravenwolf like I remember 828 01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:59,920 I think it was like six years ago maybe seven years ago it just has a fun experience I was like you 829 01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:05,280 know what I think I'm gonna open teen witch and try every spell in it and see what happens and they 830 01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:13,040 all worked and like say what you want about like any of you know these these 90s authors or whatever 831 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:18,720 but like silver Ravenwolf her shit works you know so you got to give her credit for that at least 832 01:02:18,720 --> 01:02:21,280 it's better to start somewhere than not starting anywhere at all 833 01:02:22,080 --> 01:02:27,840 amen yes thank you Mat that's everything I wanted to possibly know about fictional witches in your 834 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:34,880 relationship to them so lovely yeah yeah no I love me I mean also just as a gay man right so like 835 01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:41,280 it's we love the witch archetype because like not just a witch like I love a badass woman 836 01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:48,080 I love a bitchy woman I love a powerful woman you know I am in love with powerful women you know 837 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:54,640 maybe not romantically or like sexually but like and witches embody that right like even the wicked 838 01:02:54,640 --> 01:03:00,480 witch even like these characters that are villains it's it's like my favorite genre of movie is 839 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:07,680 that good for her you know like like carry or like you know midsummer or the witch you know where it's 840 01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:14,480 like okay the witch for example I didn't realize after I watched it that people thought it had a 841 01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:21,920 bad ending and I was like really like I took something totally different from that movie like she was 842 01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:28,000 free she was in power you know she was gonna get wish deliciously yeah she she got to live 843 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:35,040 deliciously and like to find out that like average every day non-magical people had a totally 844 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:41,520 different understanding of how that ended was really like kind of like oh we'd see things totally 845 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:49,760 different but yeah I I love me an empowered woman and a witch is absolutely the most empowered woman 846 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:55,600 whether it's good or bad she's gonna get what she wants you know and I think that's awesome and I 847 01:03:55,600 --> 01:04:03,200 love that so having a love of the occult and that kind of gay man aspect of like you know standing 848 01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:09,040 women I think that's why I love Nancy so much too right I mean other than like the goth aesthetic 849 01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:14,880 which I love as well well thank you again so much Mat for coming and joining us today and so once 850 01:04:14,880 --> 01:04:20,240 again I want to encourage everyone listening out there psychic which is an amazing book it's gonna 851 01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:27,200 take you through the exercises that Mat lays out for you to develop and train your psychic ability 852 01:04:27,200 --> 01:04:32,240 because no matter what gifts you may start with or maybe you feel like you're not starting with many 853 01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:38,160 at all this is something that can be trained and here at the Re-Patterning Project and the Re-Patterning 854 01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:45,520 Podcast we believe in training our minds your mind body system is your domain and programming it 855 01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:51,040 is your birthright so thank you and again Mat where can people find you and what are the things 856 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:56,800 that we should look forward to coming out from you in the near future yeah so I'm very big on like 857 01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:01,840 hush hush on future projects but there are things in the work there are things contracted I treated 858 01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:07,280 like magic because it is so you know until it's manifested I don't I don't talk about it um you 859 01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:15,200 can find me on orin.net a you are yn.net I'm all over pretty much every social media the ones I'm the 860 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:23,760 most active on is instagram and facebook but I prefer instagram honestly these days yeah yeah me too 861 01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:30,320 well thank you again so much for joining us thank you to all who are listening out there thank you 862 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:39,280 for joining us and as a reminder once again you can support us on patreon at patreon.com/3patroning 863 01:05:39,280 --> 01:05:44,480 podcast for just five dollars a month that's get to access to our discord server come and join 864 01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:49,920 our community and again the next round of the Repatting Project begins September 13th so if you 865 01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:56,960 are looking to repattern your own mind body system why not come and join and do it with us and on 866 01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:02,640 that note we'll see you again soon thank you for listening to the Repatting Podcast if you're 867 01:06:02,640 --> 01:06:07,440 curious about the Repatting Project the eight-week course in mental mastery and creative freedom that 868 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:13,200 inspires these conversations you can check out more details at the RepattingProject.com we run a 869 01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:17,920 cohort twice a year or you can download the self-study version of the course and get started today 870 01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:23,520 we also offer a four-week course on narrative magic and archetype titled myths and magic changing 871 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:28,560 your life through story also twice a year if you'd like to join our community the Repatting 872 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:35,680 Parlor on discord you can sign up for five dollars a month at patreon.com/3patroningpodcast thanks 873 01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:41,760 to everyone who makes the Repatting Podcast possible firstly our award-winning producer Tommy Trembath 874 01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:47,360 of the key master collective network of podcasts she also produces transcending comics vision 875 01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:53,600 in the void and giant-sized violence thanks also to animation studio mortis and madriacs who created 876 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:59,280 the video for our introduction as well as to Andrew Means who composed and produced our theme music 877 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:03,920 and also thanks to al alvarez who took the photos of yours truly that you see on the cover of each 878 01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:09,600 episode if you're watching the video version and finally thanks to you our listeners who give meaning 879 01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:14,560 to this work our greatest wishes that whatever you've heard today inspires you to live freely 880 01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:26,320 and begin creating your reality from the inside out thanks for tuning in and we'll see you again soon 881 01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:45,040 [Silence]