At the playgrounds, parents often notice their children playing with someone unseen by
their adult eyes.
I don't care for that.
You might like this one.
These kids will describe a new friend in funny clothes, which people think are like older
clothes.
Oh, time yeah.
Okay.
Although this new friend doesn't talk, they say he's nice and has a toy train.
But the kids are often confused when they try to play with the toy he offers to share,
and he and the train disappear.
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, creepy people.
Hello.
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW, Haunts and Homicides, where we
chat about true crime, paranormal and all things creepy in the Pacific Northwest.
Yes.
Or the PNW.
If you're nice.
We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little bit of deeper insight
into our topic.
So make sure you stick around if you're into that.
I'll be here.
Uh, yeah.
I think Caitlyn will be here.
Uh, I live here.
So.
Yes.
And I'll be here.
It's a good time.
So I found this story that I'm about to tell you in a book that we got loaned to us.
Ooh.
By who loaned it to us, Caitlyn?
I can't remember.
From the owner of Curiosities.
Oh, that's right.
That's right.
Yeah.
They were so nice to loan us a book called Oregon's Ghosts and Monsters by Mike Helm.
Ooh.
Yeah.
It's such an old, cool looking book from 1983, which it looks older than that.
It does.
But it says it's from 1983.
I don't believe it.
I'm going to need to see some identification.
The book starts with a quote that I think is extremely fitting for what we do here and
specifically for this topic today.
All right.
Hit me with it.
You all might have heard this quote before.
I don't know.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy."
Wow.
And that is from a little known Shakespeare play called Hamlet.
Oh.
Okay.
Just a couple of people have heard of it.
Yeah.
Hit us up if you are one of those people.
You know, they're not dime a dozen.
Shakespeare.
Heard of him?
Yeah.
Okay.
We're going 285 miles south of Portland, right to the border of California.
Oh.
To Ashland, Oregon.
Oh.
Have you been there?
Yes.
I've never been there.
I've been there.
You know, I've actually been there and visited a case that we've talked about.
Oh, snap.
Yeah.
What was that?
I can't remember.
I know.
I was like, I'm going to wait and see if she remembers.
I don't remember at all.
Was it the train one?
It was.
Oh, my God.
I just pulled that out of my butthole.
Tunnel 13.
Wow.
Yeah.
Oh.
Da.
I came across that while I was researching this.
Didn't you think about it?
I think about it.
Apparently my brain remembered.
Well, somewhere in the depths.
Well, we're going back in spirit, not in the physical yet, maybe someday.
Oh, very soon.
We're going to.
Well, we should specifically visit Lithia Park.
Okay.
Did you visit there?
I don't think so.
Okay.
It's a huge park.
And it's home to the Oregon Shakespeare Festival.
Ooh.
What started as a three-day festival in 1935 by founding director Angus Boomer has now been
extended to various performances in the theaters at the entrance of the park from March
through October.
Wow.
Yeah.
So it's a whole season I should experience.
I mean, I think you could argue that's definitely two full-ass seasons.
It's a long-ass festival, man.
Yeah.
Tickets are on sale now if you're interested.
Oh, ooh, ooh.
But if the barred ancient thing, you'll find much more beyond the park's entrance.
We have another crown jewel on our hands, people.
Wow.
You remember our last crown jewel?
Silver falls?
Ooh.
So I can be like that.
There's no April fools.
I promise.
Does anyone propose?
It's known as Ashland's crown jewel, which you'll see why.
With 93 acres of walking trails weaving through forest trees, lush lawns with a vast variety
of foliage, a rose garden, a Japanese garden, two duck ponds, a swimming reservoir, community
center, meeting hall, ice rink, tennis and pickleball courts, and many forms of wildlife.
And of course, the beautiful Butler-Perozzi fountain once made from Italian marble is now
a very accurate replica.
The marble was too soft for the elements, but portions of it were preserved and stored,
but they did do, I think butler was the person who made a replica of it.
I think of bronze or parts of it were of bronze.
Wow.
You can read more on it if you want.
Fancy.
Why wouldn't I want to read about a Butler-Perozzi?
It's gorgeous.
Yeah.
Do you want to look it up real quick?
I do.
It looks magical.
It does look magical.
It reminds me of a fountain that we saw in Europe.
It's Italian.
It was from an Italian.
It is Italian.
Italian sculptor?
I don't know what you would call someone who makes fountains.
Sculptor?
That's what I mean.
I mean, made of marble.
Yeah.
Let's go with that.
Mason.
The fountain, even though it was redone, it still takes a lot of upkeep and it does need
an expensive repairs and maintenance to this day.
I went ahead and made a donation on the show's behalf.
Oh.
Yeah.
And if any of you wonderful creepy people like to join us in support of the Butler-Perozzi
fountain's upkeep, you will find a link to do so down in the show description.
I love that.
I know.
Once I saw a donate button, I was like, oh, we have to donate like obviously.
We're talking about it.
It's only right.
John McLaren designed the landscape and Lithia Park was officially opened July 4th,
1916.
Oh, I feel like a couple of things we've talked about like open July 4th.
Yeah.
They like to open stuff on a holiday, I guess.
Yeah.
Big party.
Why not?
Yeah.
You're already doing stuff.
Or are you?
I don't know.
I don't do anything.
I know.
I don't like for the July 4th.
That's fine.
So how did the park get its name?
The spring water in the Ashland area is rich with naturally occurring lithium oxide known
as Lithia.
Is that a good thing?
It is a good thing.
It's not like the batteries.
It's not like, it's not like, all right.
You saw where my brain was trying to connect some dots there.
Oh, I'm definitely Google this.
I was like, what is this like metal?
Like what?
I don't get it.
How are people not dying?
Yeah, it just like has different compounds or whatever.
I don't know.
Science.
You can Google it.
Science.
So they built drinking fountains for the public to access the Lithia water for its health
benefits.
Oh, the fountains still exist today, although people don't typically drink from them anymore due
to the boiled egg smell and flavor.
Oh.
It reminds me of like, well water, I think, is exactly what that smell and taste is.
I fully expected you to say like the lead.
Mm-mm-mm.
Okay.
Yeah, it's healthy.
It's safe for you to drink.
I didn't fully go into health benefits, but obviously like they use lithium for medicines
and all kinds of shit.
Okay.
But you'll find more than just Bardolators or picturesque scenery, but if you go as well.
What?
Do you know what a Bardolator is?
I mean, I assume it has to do with the festival, like the Bard.
Yeah, I guess it's people who are like obsessed with Shakespeare.
Okay.
So they're like-
They're called Bardolators?
Yeah, they're at the festival, like, year round.
Yeah.
Isn't that so funny?
I didn't, I totally like Googled that because I was like, what are Shakespeare people called?
It wasn't like in the story, but yeah, it was like, I have to know.
Yeah.
Bardolator.
So we'll start with a seemingly benign story from a trip advisor comment.
They say beautiful park haunted, question mark.
And this was experienced in 2017, September of 2017.
Okay.
They say, well, I took my two twin-age daughters here one night.
I love that twin-age.
Twin-age?
I like that.
They have been on a quest to visit haunted places in Oregon.
With the apart came up as one.
We entered the address in the GPS and it took us to the back side of the park.
It was dark, perfect for ghost hunting.
Oh, and murder.
And murder.
I don't know about that.
It's funny, you say that.
We scared ourselves silly, thinking we heard footsteps.
We didn't make it 20 feet from the car.
Oh my God.
The next morning we entered the address again to check it out in the daylight.
Good idea, daylight's fine.
Yeah.
This time.
Oh, okay.
It says this time God took us, but I think she meant GPS.
I must see.
Yeah.
Interesting.
It says God.
Okay.
This time GPS took us to the front side of the park.
No matter how we tried, we couldn't find the area the GPS took us to the night before.
The GPS or God or God.
Maybe God was trying to save you the second time.
Goodness.
It is gorgeous park with an interesting history.
I'm not one to believe in paranormal activity, but this one left me scratching my head.
It was fun though.
And we will be back.
That is weird.
I have had that happen to me.
I don't know if I talked about it.
I think I told you when I went to jury duty, I'd been to the parking lot or the parking garage.
I've had jury duty.
Okay.
I could not find this fucking parking garage for the life of me.
I had the GPS.
I had the map.
I don't know why, but something was keeping me from the courthouse that day, and I'm just going
to trust it.
It was God.
It's yeah.
GPS or God, you know, just depends how, you know, how tight is your keyboard technique.
GPS is God.
In the early 60s, actor Charles Laughton had big dreams of one day playing King Lear.
His dreams finally came true, and he got the part in an Oregon Shakespeare Festival performance.
But he unfortunately passed away before he got the chance to thrive in this once in a lifetime
role.
What?
Yeah.
It's really sad.
Oh.
Now whenever King Lear is put on, phantom footsteps are heard backstage.
And while the cast rehearses, the shadow of what is believed to be Charles sits in the
audience to watch.
Oh.
No doubt ruthlessly critiquing the performance from the beyond.
Oh.
I really don't know.
I just assumed because he was like, I would have done it this way, you know?
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, that's probably fair.
But I'm sure he also just enjoys the show.
I hope so.
There is a comment on roguefreepress.com from a main name Glen.
He says, I had a fellow who was working at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival box office.
Tell me some more stories about the Elizabethan theater being haunted.
And that's one of the theaters at the entrance of the park for the festival.
Oh.
He used to work as the Night Watchman, the Night Man.
The Night Man.
And when I kept saying Night Man instead of Night Watch.
What episode was that?
God, I don't know.
I think it was the Dead Man's Island Dead Man Island. (It was the Island of Dead Men)
Oh, maybe.
Dead Man Island?
I don't know.
One of those.
Charlie Day.
A live and will.
And he told me that Mr. and Mrs. Bowmer both haunt it.
He said that Mr. Bowmer is quite friendly.
Though Mrs. Bowmer was a bit of a scold.
Oh.
He also told me that sometimes he could hear children's laughter at night in the theater.
Oh, interesting.
You know how I feel about children and their laughter?
Yeah.
It could be a couple of different things.
Uh, yeah, we'll get into it.
That's the end of that comment.
Oh, T.
People say the park has a very discomforting vibe.
More so at night.
My footsteps are heard.
Shadowy figures have been seen darting around in the feeling of being watched.
Follows you around.
No, thank you.
Well, investigating the park in EVP of an inaudible woman and a man saying, hi, I guess
he wouldn't say hi.
You'd probably say hi.
Listen, he can say hi.
However, he wants.
Hey, hey, hey girl.
Some YouTube ghost hunters caught that and they have a channel called JL solo TV if you
want to check that out.
Alrighty.
There have been reports of a light touch being felt on people's arms when no one is there.
I hate that.
Sometimes when people get home and look at the photos they've taken of the park, they'll
find that they've caught orbs.
Miss.
How about you say it for me?
You guys know what I'm trying to say.
And even the occasional Phantom photo bomber.
Okay.
There were accounts of a full ass person.
No one knew or could recall being in their group photos.
Okay.
So not a photo bomber.
Not a real one.
Not a living one.
Yeah.
Great.
That's always the craziest fucking thing to me.
And people show up in your group photo and everyone's like, who is that?
I know.
I've never personally had it happen.
I haven't either.
It better not.
I want to go on the record and say it's freaking better not.
Okay.
Knock on some wood.
While walking the paths close to the dense wooded area, you might hear a whistling tune
accompanied by the beat of a jug drifting through the trees.
Someone playing a jug.
Yeah.
I'll explain more maybe after I read the rest of this.
Okay.
Then the playful music stops dead and a horrifying male scream rips through the forest.
I don't really like that.
No one does.
No.
Then the beat drops.
Exactly.
That's what I was thinking when I didn't.
Oh no.
It is said to come from a logger who was sadly killed by a falling tree.
People report to see a lumberjack looking man with an axe who suddenly disappears before
their eyes.
I mean, if it weren't for the disappearing, that could just be a hipster.
It could be.
There are some of them there.
Yeah.
It's like a couple.
Just like a couple.
Okay.
They don't usually carry axes though, you know?
Oh, yeah, I guess.
Yeah, that's fair.
So the jug thing, it said that he would play it as a musical instrument while he was whistling.
So he would like drum on it, basically.
Yeah.
I kind of was thinking he would like blow it, like blow across it to me.
Yeah.
So maybe he did a little bit of that too, but it physically said it, but he was like pounding
on it.
Okay.
I'm doing this till like my tummy.
Yeah.
No, I mean, that's a choice.
That is, that's a choice.
Interesting.
I'm so sorry, everyone.
In this next part, there will be some awful terms that I will say one time and give you
my peace of mind about them and never say them again.
Okay.
Great.
I don't, I don't even want to say it, but it's part of the story and it's what's out there.
So I just, I want to be able to correct it on my end.
Okay.
To say no, no, no, don't say that.
All right.
No, no, no, no.
No, no, no.
The title of the story in that very old book I was telling you about is called the Hunchback
of Lithia Park.
Clearly, that's very rude and we don't name call around here.
So I'm not going to say that again.
All right.
This condition is called kyphosis.
It's an abnormal forward curve of the upper spine.
It can develop later in life or like in this case, a child can be born with it.
Oh.
So in the 20s, a boy was born with this condition into a logging family and I kind of wondered
if it was the lumber jack's son.
Oh, it was killed by the tree.
I don't know.
There wasn't any dates on that.
So I'm not sure.
Anyway, this boy also had another extremely rare condition.
Oh, boy.
Called Hypertrichosis.
This causes excessive hair growth on a person's body.
I thought I recognized that.
Oh, boy.
His particular symptoms happen to show up on his face.
Oh, no.
And since humans fucking suck.
Yeah.
They called him the dog face boy of Ashland.
I was going to say that would make him look like like a werewolf.
Yeah.
It's actually, it's known as like werewolf syndrome, which I don't agree with either.
I don't think people should say that either.
Just call it by its name.
No, it's a medical condition.
Yeah.
That's so sad.
I know.
It gets worse.
Oh, great.
He gets a lot worse.
Okay.
And it literally kills me.
This poor child had two very visible conditions he was born with.
He didn't have a fucking choice.
Yeah.
And people obviously treated him like the garbage humans that they actually are.
There.
So everyone refers to him with these awful names.
And I'm going to call him Johnny for the rest of the story.
Oh.
And I wish I knew his real name, but I wanted to honor him the best that I can and just
give him a nice name to call.
Yeah.
And I got like from John Doe.
I don't know his name exactly what I was thinking.
I call him Johnny.
Johnny.
I know.
This next part really kind of makes me think that the lumbejack who passed might have
been his father.
Really?
Yeah, because okay.
I'll tell you.
Okay.
Please.
And in the stories, there was no mention of his mother either.
It was just a father that they mentioned.
Typical.
So Johnny had a resort to stealing to get by which makes me think he was alone.
Okay.
Yeah.
Like both of his parents are gone or maybe they even disowned him.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
There's really no way to know.
But either way, clearly this boy was treated poorly by the people in the town.
And of course he had to steal.
Yeah.
Does anyone going to give him a job?
You know?
Or because he's a child maybe just, you know, take care of him.
Yeah.
It makes me really sad.
I hate everything.
It seems like he did try to make money by selling pencils.
Oh, I know.
So awesome.
And that's clearly not going to make enough money to survive off of.
But he was trying.
It was clear.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, probably not.
Yeah.
Especially when I'm not sure how many people would it even buy from him, you know?
Yeah.
He was always seen carrying a gunny sack over his shoulder too.
Probably carrying all the belongings he had in this world with him.
Great.
And then in the mid 20s, Johnny suddenly went missing.
Okay.
I don't think he just moved on to a different town, although nobody was found and no one was
ever held accountable.
It's speculated that he was murdered.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a fairly rural and rugged place.
And there would certainly be places that you could hide a body.
Yeah.
And I, no one really cared.
I'm sure.
I was just going to say.
I don't know how hard they were really looking.
Yeah.
So I was thickening, feeling that this is, you know, the most likely scenario.
Yeah.
In the 60s, though, the boy was spotted again, but appearing never to have changed on all
of those years.
Interesting.
The police were called due to a boy attempting to steal from parked cars.
But they were never able to find anyone when they came to check it out.
Weird.
Huh.
And I'm not done breaking your heart just yet.
I'm so sorry.
No.
There's one more story of Johnny.
This one's kind of both.
It's like heartwarming and heartbreaking at this.
Okay.
A bittersweet.
Yeah.
That's the words.
Yeah.
At the playgrounds, parents often notice their children playing with someone unseen by
their adult eyes.
I don't care for that.
You might like this one.
These kids will describe a new friend in funny clothes, which people think are like older
clothes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Although this new friend doesn't talk, they say he's nice and has a toy train.
But the kids are often confused when they try to play with the toy he offers to share.
And he and the train disappear.
Oh my gosh.
A train.
Oh, yeah.
He was known to like rob trains too.
Oh.
So that's interesting.
A lot of train ties here.
Okay.
They also describe him, you know, in their innocent child eyes as having a dog like a
parent.
That's okay.
They're innocent children.
They don't know any better.
Yeah.
I mean, when it's not, there's no malicious intent.
Yeah.
And, you know, they say he's nice and they were going to play with him.
So it's not like they were, what's that word we excluding him from the first scare of him?
Yeah.
There's no instinct to, you know, big a tree.
Yeah.
So it seems to me like poor Johnny just wants to play like a normal kid.
He just wants to play with his train.
No, no, no, no other kids and just be happy.
Just playing the train.
The last tale I have is the most common ghostly encounter in Lithia Park.
Oh my god.
No, no.
There's, okay.
There's more.
There's, there's, there are more things.
Okay.
I couldn't find any proof of this in the Google machine.
But the legend is a young girl was sexually assaulted and murdered where one of the duck
ponds is now back in the 1800s.
So long time ago, long before the park was there.
Super.
People hear female whispering in their ears and more intensely screaming for help in the
distance.
Okay.
I know.
No, thank you.
When people look for the source of the voice, they find nothing.
And a lot of people who have this experience don't even know of the story of the girl.
Oh boy.
They're quite distraught when they can't find the person I need help.
Yeah.
I would be truly horrified.
Yeah.
That would be awful.
Trama.
She often takes the form of a blue light or mist at the duck pond.
She might follow you around the park and try to get your attention.
That might be the source of like the people hearing the footsteps or feeling like they're
being watched.
Yeah.
That would make that would make sense.
Or even appear in front of cars driving in the area.
When the no doubt startled driver hits the blue mist, anyone that's in the car feels a sudden
chill that is gone as fast as the operation.
Okay.
I don't, I don't, I just want to clarify.
I don't like that.
Um, that's like one of my biggest fears of driving alone at night on like a highway is
like the, you know, the woman in white or whenever we'll jump in front of your car.
Yeah.
Like we need to stop the women in white and the mist.
Yeah.
Okay.
These are national security threats of the highest order.
It's got to stop.
But since this woman or girl, they, they do describe her as a young girl.
Unfortunately.
Um, she appears as blue.
So they call her the blue girl or the blue lady.
Oh.
Yeah.
That's kind of cute.
It does make me sad though.
Like as much as I, I don't want a ghost to jump in front of my car.
Like she's just, yeah.
It does make me think it's like a residual haunting, maybe where she's.
Yeah.
It's like she's trying to get help.
Yeah.
Hopefully it's not for actual spirit.
It's just what we've talked about before.
Like the impression of what happened.
Yes.
I'm going to go with that.
I hope so.
I'm going to go with that.
Yeah.
Good about that.
So we're going to move on and read some more people's experiences.
This is a comment on Oregon haunted houses dot com.
Oh my god.
It's titled creepy.
Oh, perfect.
This is from June 2018.
When I went there about a year ago, it was about 12 a.m. or one.
Don't go at night.
That's not the, it's danger.
It's not the ideal time to visit the end of our day.
Yeah.
My mom and sister were with me also.
We asked Siri for directions.
Did you ask Siri or did you ask God?
It's a really good question.
And she gave us directions like normal, but it took us to the back of the part.
Stop it.
This is a different person.
I cannot.
So it definitely was Siri.
Then it wasn't God.
Yeah.
They're both the she.
But when we got out of the car, we heard little footsteps.
No, thank you.
This is literally the same experience.
No, no, thank you, please.
This one has a little more though.
I don't care for it.
And then all of a sudden my sister thought she heard a little girl whisper in her ear.
But what did she say?
She said the little girl said something like, hi, or help, which is one of the reports of
the blue mist or whatever whispering in people's ear asking for help.
Are you okay?
Or are you just scared?
No, I am.
I'm fine.
I think your feet need to come up.
Yeah, probably.
They're like hovering closer and closer.
She couldn't clearly hear it.
But when we left, it was looking out the window.
Oh, God, I.
Yeah.
Wait, what?
It's like what?
Yes.
But when we left, I was looking out the window and saw a little girl wearing a white gown.
I told my mom and sister about it when we got back to the hotel.
My mom and sister also said they saw it too.
Do you think they all just saw it and were like, we can't say anything.
Maybe it'll, maybe it will not be real.
I mean, yeah, I feel like that's exactly what happened.
My mom had the brilliant idea to go back the next day and see if it would take us to the
entrance again or not.
It took us to the main entrance.
Okay.
We were a bit spooked.
Was a little girl still there because then she might be real.
I hope not.
Oh, no.
Yeah.
So that's weird.
It's two different websites, two different people leaving almost the same story except for
the first people as soon as they heard the footsteps they loved.
They were like, by, yeah.
So they might have seen a little girl if they stayed.
Okay.
I kind of want to go experiment and see where the GPS will take you versus the morning.
I don't want to get out of my car though.
No.
No, I would turn on my child locks so that you couldn't get out.
What if the girl appears in the car and then she can't get out?
I mean, she already got in.
So I feel like she can get back out.
Like she doesn't need my assistance.
Child locks are not a thing for her.
Not in the ghost world.
No.
The next comment is called Ghost Girl in Columbia Hotel, which I forgot to look at how close
that was.
Do you want to Google that real quick?
Yeah.
Columbia Hotel in Ashland.
Okay.
It is 2.2 miles away.
Ooh, okay.
Yeah.
So this place is pretty close.
And their story says, though not technically in Lithia Park, my mother saw a young girl in
an old fashioned dress with bowl cut, dark hair who appeared to her while she was trying
to sleep.
Okay.
Listen.
Beauty sleep.
Don't, don't, no.
Don't have kids if you want that.
I mean, aha.
Yeah, tell me more.
Confirm my life choices.
We stayed at the Columbia Hotel the night this happened.
While my mom was not psychic, she is sensitive to the other side.
The little girl is not likely the ghost from the park.
I haven't heard any other reports of her or any ghost in the Columbia Hotel.
I disagree.
Okay.
I think it might be her.
Okay.
I don't know.
Then that kind of like makes me think it is like semi-intelligent.
Maybe there's two different.
How many ghost children are running around in Ashland?
You guys, I am not okay with that.
I really wanted to go back and visit Ashland.
I love it there.
And now I think during the day time, I find.
Okay.
It's a beautiful park.
I don't think anyone should be deterred from going there in the day.
Right.
But this isn't at the park.
Yeah.
No, that's at the Columbia Hotel.
Maybe it followed them.
Maybe it attached to them a little bit.
Okay.
I forget sometimes that's it.
That's the thing.
And do you remember that children's laughter was heard in the theater too?
No.
So that made me think maybe they both the kids are together, you know, messing with the park.
Just having a good old time.
You are single-handedly ruining my life.
I'm so sorry.
Nat.
You're like, really bitch.
So I have one more story and this one's from Reddit.
It's from What the Fish Sauce?
WTF Fish Sauce.
I like that.
This is for a year ago.
And people were asking if there was any hauntings in Lithia Park and they say, not sure if
this qualifies or not, I was staying at Lithia Springs Resort, which is really close to the
park as well.
It did look that one up.
It sounds fancy.
I was having a nice night away with my wife.
She was quietly reading and I was sitting just relaxing with a glass of wine.
That sounds amazing.
With the door open watching the scenery.
It is freaking gorgeous there, you guys.
It's so beautiful.
A woman walked up to the small pond and was pouring water on the pond from her cup
tans.
So she was like scooping water and pouring it out.
She was strangely graceful and glowing faintly blue.
Like a reflection of moonlight.
That's beautiful.
Yeah, that's beautiful.
Beautiful.
Or is she drinking a lot of colloidal silver or either way?
Mom.
Did you watch that documentary?
Yes.
Oh God, that was disturbing as fuck.
Yeah, we're definitely going to talk about that at some point.
They showed a lot.
Yeah.
Yeah, they did.
This was like, that's not real.
I was like, that's literal footage.
They talk.
Do you want a fucking bed?
That's fucking real.
That's so funny.
We're not used to how much fucking footage there is of shit that's happened like now.
If it's happened in the last 10 years, it's, I mean, unsettling.
How much there is sometimes.
But anyways, highly documented.
I like that.
Highly documented.
The water continued to pour from her cup tans as she moved around the pond.
I watched her sort of stunned for what felt like minutes and then called for my wife to come
see.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, just tell your wife by even creepily watching this woman.
You can see this hot lady that looks like Moonlight.
Yeah.
My wife was gone.
I felt so confused that I woke up where I was sitting in front of the open door later that
night with a glass of wine on the ground.
Exquiz me.
I don't know why I had such a strange connected dream slash hallucination and no memory of being
tired or falling asleep.
So he was literally literally literally literally literally just sitting there watching the
scenery and fell asleep without knowing it and like spilled his wine.
That is wild.
Yeah.
That is wild.
Okay.
Well, I'm done with my story.
And then with the hour of torture.
I'm just going to sleep.
Are you asleep right now?
Oh, God.
Your wine's on the floor.
Listen, that's the worst part.
It is.
I had a weird dream last night.
It wasn't like this.
Like I knew I was sleeping.
Yeah.
Is it was a sex dream?
I wish.
No, it was really cool though.
So I was like in a car watching trees go by as I do when I'm in the car.
Yeah.
And I see all of these birds in the tree, like just tons of them.
And then I'm looking closer in their snowy owls.
Oh my gosh.
And then they all just suddenly take off and there's just like swarms of snowy owls just
like flying through the sky.
And I'm just like and then I try to take a picture of my camera.
Won't work.
No.
I know.
It's not weird though.
It's like that's really cool.
I want to see a friggin hundred thousand swarming snowy owls.
Your dream just owls.
This was last night.
It was the dream I had like right before I woke up.
So it's the one I remember.
Interesting.
Did you ever remember owls?
I did not.
Owls have significance for me.
So yeah, yeah, we've kind of talked about that before.
Yeah.
You know, my great grandma, she, she was an owl lady.
Yeah.
So I started doing some research into doing some goddess work.
And I found out that basically the women certainly on my at least maternal side have serious
affiliation with everything, like everything, like to Hecate.
Yeah.
Owls.
Frogs.
Two black dogs.
It's so cool.
I know there's a lot of other stuff that just kind of pops up and I don't always know the
significance right away, but I'm like, they might not have even known themselves, but they
were witches.
Yeah, definitely.
They were witches.
Most of us are.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's what I'm coming to learn.
Yeah, I feel literally every single person on the earth.
Yeah.
Sorry, not sorry.
Yeah.
Well, should we do some tarot?
Yeah.
Yeah, let's do some tarot.
Let's see what we get.
I'm excited.
Me too.
Tare it.
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
Let's show them some love.
You can find their info in our show notes.
Welcome to Murder and Mimosas.
I'm Shannon and I'm Danica.
Together as a mother and daughter duo, we host Murder Mimosas.
True Cran podcast with an episode released every Saturday at 10 a.m. so you can listen to
it during prime brunch time.
While we don't require a Mimosa, we do highly recommend one.
All of our episodes are cases that we found really interesting or just really stuck with
us because we hope we'll do the same for you.
You can listen to us on Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
You guys were bad.
And don't worry, we did get more wine.
Well, of course.
We did a shuffle this one real good because it's new.
Yes.
It is.
Okay, here.
Why don't you give them a little?
Give them a little love.
Love.
All right.
Which deck do you want to do first?
Did you shuffle this one yet?
No, I'll shuffle that one.
And I'll pull from this one while you're shuffling.
All right.
That's our new deck.
It's Tarottorial.
Real because we are learning.
Terrotorial.
Get it.
I do.
Woo!
I got the three of cups in reverse, which off the bat is interesting because they were three
ghosts.
Oh.
I almost stuck this in the incense holder.
You shouldn't.
I didn't.
I know.
Seven of swords.
Oh my gosh.
It's like cute little fox.
Oh.
It's not a fox, but it's not like it looks like one.
Yeah.
I think that's a weasel.
Yeah.
How's the eggs?
So five of swords, it was in reverse.
Was it in reverse or was it upright?
It was upright.
Oh, boy.
Yes.
And this was in reverse.
Yes.
Three of cups in reverse.
The three of cups on the tutorial card says friendship, community, support, happiness,
and celebration.
And that's for the upright.
And then for the reverse, you turn it over and it has different words.
Ooh.
Yeah.
Overindulgence, isolation, gossip, enough there.
Ooh.
They're dancing in a literal fucking park.
Oh my goodness.
They are.
Isn't that crazy?
That is.
Okay.
I'm going to read the interpretation.
Our keywords are essentially all the same.
I don't know if you mentioned community.
Yeah, I think it said community.
Okay.
That was the only one that stuck out that I thought maybe was different.
So the upright is like what the park should be.
The reverse is like kind of the hauntings.
There's an extra excerpt.
Let's map.
The three graces.
Speak mythology speaks of three goddesses of joy, charm, and beauty known as the graces.
The three of cups remind us of the famous painting Primavera.
Ooh, is that Italian?
By the Renaissance Italian painter, Sandro Botticelli.
Wow.
We talked about the Italian.
Yeah.
What's it called?
Founded.
Do you like how I sound like I'm doing an ad for Chef Boyardee?
Which shows these three beautiful young deities dancing together.
When reversed, the three of cups can indicate indulgence in food or drink.
Too much partying.
Perhaps you feel weary from too much interaction with other people and need some downtime.
This card gets me.
Maybe you had too much interaction with ghosts and you just need some downtime.
Yeah.
Or you've become disenchanted with your friends.
In some cases, it shows a longing for friendship or sense of community.
Oh, Johnny.
Johnny.
In a reading about money rewards, excuse me, rewards from a group effort may be delayed
or not as great as you'd hoped.
This card can also warn of overextending yourself financially or counting your chickens
before they're hatched.
Oh.
Interesting.
It's interesting, too, because I kind of came across the park.
I think now they have that resort, but I think the plan for the actual park, they wanted it
to be a health retreat because of the springs.
Oh, interesting, but it didn't happen.
If the reading is about your job, the reversed three suggests your success comes in small
ways rather than grand ones or a victory may seem hollow.
Perhaps you don't feel as happy with your job or the result of a project as you'd expected
to be.
Like, maybe you wanted it to be a resort or maybe a tree fall on you.
Could be that.
Oh, boy.
Oh, or if like the Johnny was trying to sell pencils and stuff, I don't know how to relate
to that, too.
Could be.
Yeah.
In a reading about love, the three reversed shows you may feel left out, discouraged or lonely.
Perhaps you've grown and your lover/loved ones haven't kept up.
In some cases, this card can mean a primary partnership takes up all your time and you don't
get to see friends as much as you'd like.
Maybe you don't have any.
Maybe you try to make friends and then you disappear because you don't have enough energy.
That's a possibility as well.
I feel like also the girl might maybe she's trying to make friends, too.
I don't know.
Yeah, it could be.
I feel like a lot of that was feeling like it tied back to Johnny for me.
Yeah, mostly.
You might be right.
I think it's a lot of that.
I think so too.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we have the seven of swords and that's in the upright.
Yes.
Okay.
Did I, I think I said five of swords to begin with?
I don't know.
I meant seven if I said five.
Forgive me.
I think you said seven.
I issue a formal apology if I said five.
Apology not accepted.
Good.
Okay.
Anyway, keywords are uncertainty, illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning and strategy.
Some decks, including the writer, weight Smith, Aquarian and Guilded Taro, show a man carrying
away five swords.
The fact that you said you thought you said five.
And this is a man carrying five swords.
Oh, yeah.
And the deck.
Oh boy, when this card appears, it suggests you're facing a challenge or problem and must
use caution to overcome potential danger.
Yeah, all three of them, yeah.
Yeah.
The upright seven suggests a tricky situation in which things are not completely clear,
like if your body is missed.
Or if you, like we can't, I can't find any proof of the murder of the girl, you know?
Yeah.
I mean, I searched murdered girl, Ashland 1800s and nothing came up.
I don't know what else I could search.
Yeah, that's so hard.
Yeah.
Interesting.
You may be formulating a plan, but don't have all the information you need, which, yeah.
Wow.
All right.
For the plan, maybe risky and good backfire.
This card can represent seraptitious action and advises diplomacy.
What a seraptitious man.
Kind of seraptitious.
Yes.
So always put syrup on your pancakes and that's that.
Seraptitious.
I always think of it as being like kind of under the surface, you know, sort of discreet.
Okay.
That makes sense.
We can look it up.
In a reading about money, the seven warns that you probably shouldn't go ahead with a financial
idea or investment you're considering.
Oh my god.
I just had a flash of something.
What?
I wonder if Johnny was asking like for a job or asking to, I don't know for something from
some people and they got mad.
Yeah.
Maybe.
Or he was just like, you know, trying to steal from them, which could be that's a possibility
too.
But I don't know.
I just like popped in my head as soon as you said that.
Oh, Johnny, let us know.
If the reading is about your job, this card says don't engage in direct confrontation.
Work behind the scenes to get results.
That's that Seraptitious.
Oh, the upright seven can also indicate restlessness.
Perhaps your job lacks the diversity or stimulation you desire.
Selling pencils isn't stimulating.
And it says consider making a change or the lumberjack like don't cut.
Yeah.
Like own own the what's it called lumber mill or whatever and send the other people out
to do the trees.
Yeah.
It's like indirect contact contact with the tree.
Yeah.
Oh boy.
In a reading about love, your advice to seek compromise and use diplomacy rather than arguing
with a partner, but don't just go along to get along.
Sometimes this card shows leaving a relationship that doesn't meet your intellectual or spiritual
needs.
This is a little chilling.
There's an extra excerpt.
Okay.
Focus.
Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy.
As Barbara Moore writes in the Guilted Terror Companion, be on guard or one of those swords
he left behind will find its way into his back.
Like a wow.
Like a tree falling in the forest.
Or back stabbing asshole communities.
Or maybe the little girl trusted someone she shouldn't have.
Oh no.
All of it.
I think all of it relates to all.
It's crazy that there's three people dancing in a park.
Like I can't.
Yeah.
I I simply calmed.
And it's like they're in the upside down, you know, like the under underworld.
You know, the upside down.
Oh.
No, I hate it.
Wow.
I hate really.
That's really cool though.
Yeah.
I'm like, that's really cool that they related to the story, which is the point of this whole
thing.
I don't give a sip.
Yeah.
But you can't really read it.
That's what they say.
Also, don't give a sip.
We're going to wash our fingerprints and chapstick prints off of these and then we'll
take a picture of them.
Maybe we'll leave it dirty.
We're real and dirty people.
I didn't brush my teeth today.
That's not true.
You've brushed them now.
I just smell my breath the entire episode.
How's your pop filter?
Stanky?
It's not great.
All right.
No, it's fine.
We give it a fabreezer.
Oh, did you want to show off our prize?
Yeah, I think so.
I think we already did show, but we are using the.
We did show.
Yeah, we did a little video of us opening it.
Oh, right.
Okay.
We should probably tell them what we're talking about.
Our gift that we won from through the veil.
We're using the incense.
We got the little salinite.
Salinite.
Stick.
We were going for sort of a foresty theme here.
And this is one that has all of the elements engraved into it.
Spirit, water, fire, earth, and air.
It's perfect.
All those things are in the park, I assume.
Yeah.
That sounds about right.
Fire, I'm not sure, but I'm sure that they have a fire somewhere.
Well, they have forest fires.
Maybe not that kind of fire.
Well, listen.
Maybe the Shakespeare plays have some fire.
Yeah, maybe.
Well, fast.
So we brought this tree.
It's humongous.
It really, it's taken on quite a life of its own.
It's beautiful.
Yeah.
Did you tell them what it was from?
I haven't.
No.
My mom was very, very jealous.
And I don't know how this happened.
I don't.
I don't keep plants alive just historically.
But this plant came from a trimming of one of my grandmother's plants.
My cousin created, I don't know, however, propagated them.
Yeah.
That's the word propagated.
Propagated them for several of us because now our maternal grandmother is gone and we
have we have the plant.
So sweet.
Yeah, my mom's going to be super pissed when she sees it in this video because she's going
to be like, first of all, why is your closet door open?
Oh, well.
We're human, but hers is, it's looking pretty shrimpy.
Oh, yeah.
You wonder why?
Well, she keeps it by a cold sliding glass door is the argument that we have made.
Maybe give it a little heater.
I mean, maybe just like put it up away from the cold glass in the winter.
There's a lot of solutions.
It needs some, you know, like indirect sunlight, but it doesn't mean it has to sit by cold
glass.
Yeah, that would make sense because I had mine by my window upstairs and, I mean, it wasn't
very warm up there.
I think I kept the heater vent closed and it didn't do great.
I still do have like a clipping from it that keeps growing.
It's probably about this long now.
Not from hers.
It's a different one.
A different one.
Yeah.
Same type of plant.
Yeah.
Different plant.
Yeah.
But yeah, it didn't do good next to the window.
So maybe next time I'll put it somewhere else.
You know what's really interesting is I took this to my old office and I had it on the corner
of my desk and I was trying to get sunlight out of the one window.
And then when it started to warm up, I moved her and she was sitting in there and my office
always got like that warm afternoon sun.
Oh, so it like she's a little bit of warmth.
She's sprouting up.
Nice.
Good to know.
Plant tips with Caitlin.
Who would have sunk?
I mean, I don't know any.
She's a green witch.
Yeah.
She don't even know which I guess I don't maybe these vines are so long.
They are.
I can't believe it.
Do you see them?
They're down here.
Yeah.
Oh my god.
Yeah, you can.
It wraps around the table.
It's wild.
It's gold.
Should we do the thing?
Let's do our thing.
Okay.
Have a pre-cast day.
See you next Tuesday.
Unless you get lost in a Shakespeare play.
Oh.
I didn't realize that was a possibility.
I have to go.
What's the thing where he holds the skull?
To be or not to be?
There's no question.
It's not to be.
No question.
I have to go.
Bye.
Time's scared of fire and loud boom, boom.
*laughs* pnwhauntsandhomicides.com