[MUSIC]
We get a lot of people who come in and they're like, I don't really know what I am,
but I'm interested in all of this.
And that's where Courtney and August have created this amazing community that there are just so
many people to ask and so many people that come to these kinds of things.
And Courtney and August are so knowledgeable that they can usually point you in the right direction
and be like, oh hey, there's this book over here, there's book over here.
That's what I love the most about the shop is that Courtney and August, they run it not just
as a shop but as a community meeting place.
[MUSIC]
Hi, Caitlyn.
Hi, Cassie.
Hi, creepy people.
Hello.
If you're new to our creepy corner of the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about
true crime, paranormal, and all things creepy or witchy in the Pacific Northwest.
We do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for deeper insight into the topic.
So make sure you stick around if you're into that.
And if you're not, then I'm not even really sure why you're here, but I guess welcome.
Thanks.
You can listen to the other stuff, I guess it's fine.
But this episode, we actually did an Oracle reading and a rune reading.
Yes.
And Caitlyn missed it all.
Oh, it hurt.
Her heart hurt. I felt really bad.
We even talked about you because I was like, I feel so bad because she had to sit through all
of the creepy dolls interview and then she doesn't even get to do the witchy interview.
Yeah, you know what? That is my luck. That's what that is.
And so I'm sorry, also, spoiler alert, there might be some creepy dolls coming.
I'm just going to throw that out there.
I was wondering why you said that rather than their names.
And I was going to say they're such lovely people.
And I remember.
Because we haven't talked to them yet, technically.
That you guys have heard on this timeline.
But this time we are talking with a local witchy shop called Through the Veil.
And they are in Hillsboro in the Orenco area.
They're kind of tucked back in from the main strip, but very easy to find.
And it's just magical and they sell magical things.
Yeah.
And I am so excited for future.
Caitlyn.
And also Cassie.
She will be there.
But yeah, very excited for future us tomorrow us.
We're going to go.
And Caitlyn's never been.
I've been a bunch of times.
Actually, in this episode, we're going to talk about it.
But they have gatherings.
And they had a full moon gathering that I went to.
It was really fun.
The moon was just out.
It was shining on all of us.
We had a fire pit.
We did a meditation, a group meditation.
It was really fun.
That just sounds so lovely.
Yeah.
Do you want to know what I did?
No.
I gave my dog antibiotics and I gave her an Epsom salt soak.
So that was.
If you want to know about that story, join our Patreon and listen to Book Discussion.
Yeah, I cannot tell that story twice.
Yeah.
I intentionally did not tell Cassie everything that occurred because I was like,
I can't keep telling this story.
And dog mom problems.
No.
So yeah, she couldn't join because of dog problems.
But never fear, I was not alone.
Because when she know it, I ran into our Patreon Courtney.
Amazing.
Who we ran into also at the two girls one go show.
I just, I can't with this.
It was so funny.
I saw her and I was like, oh my god again.
Like, yeah.
But it was really excited because I was like, thank gosh,
I have someone here with me that I know.
And not like people were not friendly and not nice.
But you know, you just don't know anybody.
And it's, yeah, I'm sure ability.
You know?
So it's nice.
Thank you Courtney.
Thanks for being my buddy for the night.
Buddy.
My full moon buddy.
Yeah.
Because her other full moon buddy was having a real full moon night.
No.
Yeah.
Like an ER doctor.
Moon night.
So.
Oh boy.
Lovely.
Yeah.
That was fun.
Should we get into this episode?
I suppose so.
All right.
Bye, Caitlyn.
Get outa here.
Okay.
So today we're with Courtney and Lizzy.
And Courtney is owner of a local shop called Through the Veil.
And Lizzy runs some of the events there.
Is that correct?
Yes.
All right.
Well, Courtney, do you want to tell us a little bit about your beautiful shop
and how it all came to be?
So it is a witch shop.
I guess how it came to be a few years ago.
My husband and I were dating then.
Of course, we weren't married yet.
And we went to Salem, Massachusetts.
And I saw all the witchy shops there and just fell in love with that whole
environment and such.
How could you not?
I know.
And Salem is like the best place for it.
So.
So yeah, so he had owned a spiritual shop before.
It was more of like all different spiritualities and religions.
So he he'd done that for like, I think four years or something.
And he'd worked in other metaphysical shops.
So he was very adamant that he was done with that life.
And he did not want to do it again.
I don't know how I put the bug in his ear, but the whole drive back
from Massachusetts to Michigan.
It's like a seven hour drive.
I was like, well, if we had a shop, we would carry these items.
And like, we're making a list in a journal and doing all this stuff like totally hypothetically.
But eventually, I think he he warmed up to the idea.
And even moving to Oregon, he did not want to come to Portland area right away.
He had lived here in the past.
Oh, really?
I can't imagine why.
Right.
Yeah.
So.
But yeah, eventually we ended up out here.
We first moved to Salem.
We were kind of thinking, like I said, he didn't really want to do Portland again.
And we were kind of thinking, oh, we'll make a Salem Massachusetts of the West.
And so we were there a few months.
We just weren't finding a good property really for a store and the situation that we wanted,
which was like a live work type situation.
And then we found this building here and
everything just kind of fell into place.
It was meant to be.
It was like it.
So Hillsboro is probably like 20 to 30 minutes from Portland.
So you guys aren't in the main main city.
Right.
And then even then you're kind of back from the main road too.
So I feel like you're kind of like tucked in this little magical section of Hillsboro.
It's awesome.
It's really close to everything.
But it doesn't feel like it is.
Right.
And we love that about it.
This neighborhood, it is a neighborhood.
So it's, you know, regular houses all around us were the last like
but hold of a commercial type place in this this neighborhood from way back when.
And like this neighborhood has fought against like modernizing.
Like they fought against putting in sidewalks.
They fought against putting in street lights.
So it's really awesome that we're kind of like
keeping a hold of that.
Ruleness.
You love that.
It's like your own little bubble and kind of like what is basically a city now.
So it's growing so fast out here.
It's crazy.
And yes.
So I understand there was some remodeling involved when you when you first got the place.
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
It's just it's an old building.
So it's from 1908.
It was originally like a mercantile,
grocer type building when it was built.
It was built by the Oregon nursing company.
Oh wow.
Yeah.
And so the previous owners, I think they had gotten it in the 80s.
They'd done a lot to the building.
I know there was a fire at one point.
And so they had to rebuild the storefront itself.
And they've tried to keep everything as original as possible.
But by the time we got to it, it had sat for a couple of years and it had some active
roof leaks unfortunately.
And so that's always something that's like you had to get on top of it right away or you're
going to have problems.
So yeah.
And then they were using the storefront area for mostly woodworking.
They made some wagon wheels and stuff.
And they had a large collection of old like antiques and just various like
oddity type things and just things.
So it was not ready to be a store for sure.
We had to basically go in.
There was a couple of rooms built over there.
And we had to take those out and just redo the whole thing.
So you guys did such a good job.
It's so beautifully decorated.
I can't believe the ceiling is that's my favorite part of the whole place.
It's so beautiful.
It's like a black.
Is it black ceiling?
It's black like it's a glossy black tin ceiling.
It is real tin.
Oh wow.
So but it was it's not original to the building though.
We installed that ourselves.
So it's beautiful in there.
Looks like you guys just took so much care.
The space has such good vibes.
I love going in there.
I do remember like the first time I was in there.
There was a witch mask on the wall.
And with a sign that said it was there.
When you guys moved in, is that still there?
It is.
Yeah.
It'll stay there.
It's like a little bit of a traffic.
So that was there when you guys bought the place?
Yeah.
Like I said, they just had a collection of stuff.
And so that was still hanging on the pillar right,
roughly right where it is now.
We took it down to paint obviously and put it back.
But and we fixed it.
We put batteries in it because it has a button.
You push it and it like sings and does funny stuff.
But yeah, it's very old.
And the some of the I think the grandkids of the people
who own the building for us have been in the shop.
And one of them was like, hey, I put that there.
And so that was fine.
That's all I love that.
That is so flipping cute.
Yeah.
Okay, so let's go into what Lizzy runs.
You said she runs full moon gatherings and and sabbats.
Sabbits.
I was like, there's there's a word I can't pronounce
and I don't want to sound stupid.
Not at all.
And she teaches some classes.
Yes.
Oh, okay.
So tell me about all those things.
Yeah.
So every month we do a new moon and full moon circles.
My friend Lisa runs the new moon ones.
We do a lot of drumming for that.
That's a drumming circle for the new moons.
For the full moons, I do those.
And then I also do the sabbats which are like to pagan holy days.
There are eight of them a year and it follows the the wheel of the year.
I also as Courtney said occasionally teach classes.
I did a class on honor your ancestors even if they suck.
A lot of people.
A lot of people in the pagan community come from a hard background.
Either some of their family, they get a lot of flack from their family about being pagan.
We get a lot of evangelical castoffs.
You know, people that didn't find a home in the church.
And they're finding a home in paganism.
But that creates kind of that tension within their family line.
Or they come from religious trauma.
And so they've split from their family because you know, they they follow a really hard religious line.
So connecting to your ancestors even when there is kind of that tension, it's still possible.
And so I taught a class around that around how to kind of get around
the fact that your immediate ancestors really suck.
I'm also going to teach a class on runes.
I've been working with runes for about about 12 years now.
And yeah.
So the the sabbats that we do, the pagan holy days, we make that accessible to everybody.
We don't have any particular like line that we follow.
Like we don't do Wiccan sabbats.
We don't do druid sabbats.
We don't do Hellenistic sabbats.
Like it's just kind of an all around pagan thing.
We follow the wheel of the year.
So the next one is going to be you all, which is the winter solstice or Albin Arthin.
And I think it's a good time.
We usually talk about what the sabbat is, the significance of it.
And then we usually have something to do a lot of time.
It's setting an intention for the coming year.
For you all, especially how to kind of honor the passing of the year
and what you want the next year to look like.
So yeah.
That's what we do.
That is so cool.
So can you just show up to these as they're exactly?
Absolutely.
A minor do you have to sign up?
You don't have to sign up.
You just show up.
All of it is on the stores website throughtheveilshop.com.
It's also on Facebook and Instagram.
And then there's also a Facebook community group
for the shop where we post about the events.
Book clubs.
We are also going to be doing a book club coming up again.
Probably in January.
Question mark.
Yeah.
Oh, that's awesome.
That's right.
When every year I'm like, I'm going to read more books this year.
That's my resolution.
There you go.
Here's a way to keep that.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah, we do, we do witchy books.
So I think the next one that we're going to do is the Morrigan book by Courtney Weber.
Right?
Yeah.
So Courtney Weber actually reached out to us.
She lives in the area so she's going to come talk to us about the book once we reread it.
Oh, wow.
That's awesome.
I'll have to keep my eye out.
That's really interesting.
Is it the same for book clubs?
Do you do it at the shop?
Do you do it virtually?
Yeah, we do both for the book club.
So it is at the shop and then we do a Zoom link as well.
And we often record it.
So if people miss it, they can catch up.
Oh, that's cool.
I love that.
Yeah, that's also a great place to talk about.
Like if you have questions about the path that you're on,
we get a lot of people who come in and they're like, oh,
I really know what I am, but I'm interested in all of this.
And that's where Courtney and August have created this amazing community
that there are just so many people that ask and so many people that come to these kinds of things.
And Courtney and August are so knowledgeable that they can usually point you
in the right direction and be like, oh, hey, there's this book over here.
There's book over here.
If you're interested in Druidry, go talk to Lizzy because
they'll try to drag you into that.
So I love that.
It's just like a safe space for everyone to come.
Absolutely.
That's what I love the most about the shop is that
Courtney and August, they run it not just as a shop, but as a community meeting place.
It's a place that you can come and you can ask questions.
I've seen people come into the shop that just have
generic questions about witchcraft.
There are people that come in that say, hey,
I've got something gross in my apartment.
This feeling, how do I get rid of that?
What would you recommend for that?
We have people that come in that want to do,
they want to disconnect from loved ones or ex-boyfriends.
They want to know how the best way to do that.
It's just such a great resource to come in and ask those kinds of questions
that you can't really find anywhere else.
You can throw it out to Google, but you're going to get 15 different things.
Oh my god.
Or you could come into the shop and talk to Courtney or August or
anyone that's working there or if I'm hanging around that day
and get first-hand information on the best way to go about it.
Yeah, I feel like sometimes you don't even know what task.
So you're just like, what do I even type in Google for this problem?
I don't even know.
Absolutely.
And that's recording August or great because they can kind of pull that out and be like,
oh, hey, well, have you tried Palo Santo?
Like, you know, yeah, I've got some sage over here.
You know, here's some graveyard dirt.
Let's try that.
A thing that I find happens a lot, especially in some of the witchy groups I follow on Facebook,
is you'll ask a question and you'll get a lot of judgment.
Whereas like, you know, some people want to do something and other people have an idea that
what you should be doing and that's going to be bad karma or all this.
And everybody has different belief systems and we really try to honor that in our shop.
And we just give you the information.
You know, it's not our place to say what you should or shouldn't do.
It's your, your own person.
So we just give the information and we carry the supplies.
So that's like, something that's very important to me is to do that judgment-free.
Yeah.
Yeah, I like that.
I don't like rules.
So and I'm always changing my mind too.
So I'm like, I reserve the right to change my mind about that.
Right.
100% 100%.
Do you guys collect your own graveyard dirt or do you get it sourced?
We do not collect our own.
I unfortunately do not have time for such.
Can you imagine?
Extracurricular activités.
Courtney, let's go.
We're going to the graveyard.
Let's do it.
Shops out a dirt.
We need to go.
All right.
So we do, we do source it.
We do try to get it from legitimate sources and that sort of thing.
Of course, how much can you really know if it's legit?
Right.
But I am very excited, though, since we're on the topic of Grave Dirt.
I just found a new source.
That I've ordered from.
And they have special Grave Dirt.
They have Grave Dirt from Disentered Graves.
They have Grave Dirt from Freshly Dug Graves.
And they have a Grave Salts, which is like a Grave Dirt mixed with Salts.
And such.
Wow.
That's right.
You know, right?
I'm very excited.
That's awesome.
That is super awesome.
And they work in the Funerary business.
So I'm pretty sure that it's legit.
I would hope so.
Yeah.
That's a great, great connection to have.
I didn't even think about that.
Great.
Kind of a good side hustle too.
Right?
If you're like, if you've got your own mortuary,
you'll be like, yo, what's up?
Like I got the good dirt.
Yeah.
I cannot wait.
Because I got like spell kits and stuff too.
That comes with things like Corpse Water.
Like they wash down the corpses before they do stuff to it.
So lots of things.
Stuff like I like that weird like stuff.
So I need to I need to all about graveyard.
Super awesome.
Skeletons and oh my gosh, everything creepy.
You have to tell me about you have a coffin table
in there with a skeleton in it, right?
It's probably not as cool as it sounds,
but it's just a coffin table.
It's actually cooler.
Yeah.
It's really cool to look at.
So we made that the coffin table out of like plexiglass.
So it's clear so you can see through it.
And then put some feet on it and all that.
And then we got a skeleton that is gold.
And I just decorated it in flowers and lights and low
which had and put them in there.
And that's where he lived.
So awesome.
It's so beautiful.
Is that for sale?
It is not.
No, I'm sorry.
Finally, someone tried to rent it from a slash year too
for Halloween.
It's like, oh, that's a good idea.
Maybe you should just put a tutorial on how to make it.
Yeah, I could probably come up with that.
It wasn't, I mean, the hardest part obviously is
is cutting the plexiglass and not breaking it.
But yeah, I'd have to hire someone to do it.
Right.
Yeah.
And plexiglass isn't cheap anymore.
Holy cow.
I know.
Oh, I know.
Do you have any other art that you make
and put around the shop like that?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
There's tons of art in there.
We have like a big right above the fireplace
is like a 3D statue thing of Hecate.
Yeah.
So I do a lot of bone art that we sell in the shop.
Some of it's real bones and some of it's
we call vegan for those people who are--
We just want to--
--just get bought out.
I love it.
Yeah.
Vegan bone art.
And then what else?
I make so much stuff.
I don't even know.
There's a pair of wings in there I've made.
I made like the chandelier that's in the middle.
And you made that?
Yeah.
The robes, the robes and stuff.
Yeah.
The icing gowns that are in there I've made.
She's incredibly artistic.
Like she's so talented.
She really is.
Definitely shows when you go in there for sure.
Nice.
Absolutely.
Tell my husband you can never leave me.
[LAUGHTER]
For the drum circle, do you have to have your own drum?
No.
Lisa makes her drums and brings extra ones for everybody.
So you can just show up.
The only thing that is good to bring her chairs
because most of the time we're sitting and drumming
and stuff and so having--
there are some chairs there.
There are benches and rocking chairs available.
That fills up pretty quick.
Well, that's good to know.
OK.
Yeah.
And you can even, as far as drums go,
because she does have a limited number.
So sometimes people will share or pass them around.
But you can bring any kind of percussion type.
We've had people bring rattles or little like--
Dissarie doodles.
I don't know what--
Really?
Thank you.
I can never pronounce that.
Yep.
You can even take an old bottle, like a plastic bottle,
and put little rocks in it, and then shake it.
I mean, just anything.
So--
That's cool.
And then do you have to know anything about drumming?
Not at all.
So the idea of it is that the percussive kind of rhythm
helps kind of change your brainway patterns
to kind of get you into a more meditative state.
And so sitting together and drumming together
and kind of feeling that energy, the whole idea behind a new moon
is what you want to manifest for that moon cycle.
And so as we drum, we think about, OK, what do the last moon
cycle look like?
What just ended?
This is the darker that moon, and this is the time
to kind of rest and figure out what you want to manifest.
And drumming kind of helps facilitate that.
It helps you kind of go a little bit deeper.
Then on the full moon circles, we
talk about what has manifested.
Like this month, it's the hunter moon,
or the beaver moon, or whatever.
And that's what this is around.
And so the whole idea is to kind of live more in cycle
with the seasons and with the moon cycle.
And you see kind of how your own energy abs
and flows with those cycles.
And you see kind of how that starts to take root in your own life.
That sounds really cool.
I'm going to have to get down and check it out.
Because I just need-- I need something more in my life,
more than just podcasting and working.
I need more witchy vibes in my life, for sure.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
OK, can you both recommend like what
is one basic witchy tool or something
that you provide in the store that you think everyone should
have?
Good question.
I mean, not everyone.
But you know what I mean.
There's so many.
How do you pick one?
Right?
You can do more than one.
I don't care.
There's no rules here.
I guess I'll talk about the one I've been working on today,
since it's like on my mind.
We sell-- it's called a witch kit starter kit type thing.
Oh, perfect.
Yeah.
So we have three types.
One is just in a regular like organ's
bag.
This month we'll be doing them in little mini like Christmas
stockings for Christmas gifts.
So two.
And then yeah, so that it'll come with a bunch of different herbs,
a bunch of different crystals.
It comes with like a mini candle, candle holder, matches,
oil, Palo Santo, salt.
So I think that's most of it.
And then we have a style that's inside of a mortar and pestle.
So it comes in a mortar and pestle.
And then one comes with a little cauldron.
So it's just a real like beginner basic kit.
And on each of the herbs and the stones,
it'll tell you what it is and like one of its metaphysical
properties.
So it's really for people starting out who don't have a collection
of stuff yet and they just want to get something started.
So that's perfect.
I love that.
I would recommend a tarot deck as a good way
to kind of start if you're diving into it.
Yeah.
If you're diving into kind of like your witchy cell
because the whole idea behind tarot and divination
is to kind of take you a little bit deeper inside yourself.
And they have in a fantastic selection of tarot decks there.
Everything you can possibly think of.
Like they've got a tarot deck for it.
I've gotten a few decks there.
I got an Oracle deck there and it literally would not
let me leave the store without it.
I kept--
I'd be like, no, I have enough decks.
I guess they don't have an Oracle deck,
but-- and I kept going back to it and I was like,
I have to take this home.
They won't let me leave.
Nice.
That's how you know that.
That's meant for you.
Yep.
Absolutely.
I know.
And I was really bummed out because I don't have it with me.
I think I left it at my co-host house
because we used it for the last episode.
And I was like, no, I need my--
it's a moon Oracle deck.
Ooh, nice.
It's just gorgeous.
But I didn't bring it.
So I'd--
I probably--
I believe.
I'd probably have it.
I'd like six or seven Oracle decks over there.
So chances are I can have it.
How do you have it?
That would be so cool.
Is it the monology Oracle?
I don't think so.
It has like cartoon witches on it and like cats.
Oh, nice.
Just very pretty artwork.
Like, girly creepy.
I wonder if it's the one I picked up recently.
Let me go get it.
I want to see if it's best one for the first time.
I mean, obviously I have all the decks in the store,
but in my personal collection, I have this one.
That's it.
Ooh, nice.
I had a feeling that--
So it's just my buddy.
I take it everywhere with me.
And I was just like heartbroken that it wasn't in my bag
today.
I was like, no.
Oh, I'm going to go--
Like a piece of me.
This is when I snagged for myself.
I snagged a lot of them, unfortunately, but--
I love it.
Yeah, I love the artwork on this one.
So gorgeous.
It's so beautiful.
That's very beautiful.
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And don't worry, we did get more wine.
Well, of course.
So we usually do a tarot reading or an oracle reading
or something witchy in every episode.
So if you guys want to pull something,
if you're feeling it, I would love that.
Since I don't have my pretty deck.
Absolutely.
So I guess I will pull from the deck that you love.
You want to go first, Lucy?
Sure.
I need to do a Rune pull
Is that work?
Yes, please.
So I made my own Runes out of a Preseli Bluestone.
I carved them myself.
It took me three months to do it, because I carved them
in the proper phase of the moon and all that kind of shit.
So I have a set of Runes that I made.
And I'll do a Rune pull for you guys.
That'll be one.
That's so exciting.
I give you the five of the day.
I have to tell you about a Rune set I saw recently
I want to get.
Ooh.
I think rooms are so beautiful.
They really are.
This is a Dagaz.
It's the room of illumination or enlightenment.
So Dagaz, in some parts of Eastern Europe,
in Alaska, the sun will set.
And it won't rise again for 30, 40, 60 days.
So you have just months of darkness.
And then the inverse of that is where the sun rises.
And it never sets.
And it's up for a while.
But Dagaz is the illumination.
That's the sun rising after an extremely long period
of darkness.
So if you're moving through a time where you're kind of questioning,
what do I do next or where do I go?
Dagaz is the room to lean on.
It also looks like an hourglass or an infinity symbol.
So it kind of encapsulates that idea that there is no beginning
and there is no end.
It's just-- it's all a cycle, right?
It's all illumination.
So you keep working and you keep learning.
And that's how you keep moving forward
is through the illumination of Dagaz.
That's so beautiful.
I love that.
That's perfect.
You're turn Courtney.
So I got this card - Radiant.
Ooh, beautiful.
That kind of goes together, I feel like.
It does.
I know.
We're just thinking, I'm going to look it up in the book
because it is an Oracle deck.
And Oracle's always have their own definitions for things.
I love that--
Let me see what questions they have for those cards.
OK.
Yeah.
So it says, "Radiant illuminated glowing beacon.
Be as radiant as the luminous full moon
casting a shimmering glow to all below,
blinketing the earth and dancing shadows
as the clouds pass around her.
Be as radiant as the gleaming suns sending her luminous rays
to our planet.
Both the moon and the sun are healing,
rejuvenating, and magnetic.
Soak in these powers, ignite your own glow
from within and share your newly gained strength.
Recharge your energy zones.
Tap into your inspiration and creativity
using your newly gained resources to their fullest extent.
Choose to shine on your brightest frequency.
Be like the sun, the moon, and the stars
illuminating the darkness.
Wow.
And it says, "Intention is illuminate your heart
with inspiration and love.
Be a beacon of light offering strength and guidance."
So yeah.
That sounds an awful lot like you guys in your store
and what you do for the community.
Right.
We hope.
Yeah, absolutely.
That's so perfect.
I love when it works out like that,
where you get to kind of like matching interpretations
for things and they're completely different tools
that you're using too.
That's really cool.
I love that.
That's so awesome.
Manifesting.
We're always so amazed by them.
What's that word?
Oh my gosh.
A synchronicity.
Yes.
I'm like, one of you has to pull it out of my brain.
I know what I mean.
Yeah.
So have you guys experienced any hauntings, any ghosts,
any creepy stuff?
Neal.
Oh, I mean, we could probably talk about the Ouija
I was just saying we could probably
talk about the last, the Ouija thing that we did.
That was really fascinating.
Where--
Oh, so did stuff happen.
Yeah.
You kind of.
So I will give some background first, too,
because reasons we chose to try to do the Ouija here
in the building.
So lots of people have told us a story
about the lady that owned the store in like the '40s
and '50s.
Her name was Bessie Brown.
And so she was a widow when she bought the building.
So that in itself was unique.
That she owned and ran this store on her own.
She didn't pass away here.
But she had-- everybody said that she loved the store.
They had to basically force her into retirement.
And once they did, she passed away shortly thereafter.
So the people have said that they've felt her presence there,
that they've seen her.
We've had multiple stories from random different people
who don't know each other.
Oh, wow.
The guy that owned the store before us,
he talked about her a lot and believed
that she was here.
And then we've had some younger people come in.
He said, oh, I was driving by with somebody's one night.
And we saw her out in the road.
And like, just various things like that.
She was very nice.
Everyone says she gave candy out to kids that came
in the shop and so on.
So yeah, so we kind of did this whole Ouija board thing
in the class as well as with friends to reach out
and see if she was here and that sort of thing.
But yeah, I'll let Lizzy explain the rest of what happened
when we did the Ouija board that night.
It was really interesting.
It was-- we asked if we could connect.
And there was definitely the real presence.
Our friend, Lisa, the same one that runs the new moon circles.
She is an experienced chaman or spirit walker.
And does a lot with ghost hunting.
She does a lot with cleansing.
If you have a malevolent entity on your land,
and you need that cleanse.
So we felt that we were in really good hands with Lisa.
And so she kind of helped guide the process.
So she kind of helps make sure that we were all kind of like
taking it seriously and things.
And so she was asking the right questions.
And it definitely had like a very strong sense of a presence
and in communicating.
What was hilarious is that they asked her if she liked what
we did with the store, what Courtney and August did with the store.
And it was kind of an ambiguous answer.
And we were kind of like, how?
Does that mean that you don't like it?
But then we got to thinking she ran a grocery store.
And Courtney and August store would definitely
be the worst grocery store like a round.
Like it is a terrible grocery store.
So I kind of wonder if she's looking at it
and being like, y'all are terrible at selling groceries.
Like, this is not the worst grocery store I've ever seen.
But they asked, are you here?
Are you helping?
Do you help people?
And she's like, yeah, absolutely.
So I think that spirit is still there.
And still wanting to be in service as she was for so long
in that building.
And we definitely get the sense that it's not malevolent at all.
It's a very protective and--
I don't think kind is necessarily the right word.
I think the vibe I got was kind of like stern,
but helpful like that kind of school-marm teachery kind
of like, you behave now kind of thing.
But somebody who's definitely a servant.
There was a time too that they were hopeful in the shop
as far as we know.
So there was somebody in our back corner
where the tarot decks and stuff are in the oddities.
And a book had fallen off a shelf.
Like randomly, nobody could figure out
why it would have just fallen off the shelf.
And they picked it up and put it back.
And it fell again.
And then they were like, OK, I'm
supposed to buy this book.
So it was very interesting that that happened in that way.
Because yeah, nobody could figure out.
They didn't seem like there was any legitimate reason
for the book to have fallen.
But sadly, I'm a skeptic about all of the--
that stuff I want to believe, like really badly.
But I'm still a skeptic there.
So we've had few things that were weird.
We weren't at home one time.
And we have motion sensors, of course,
on the alarm system and such.
And the motion detectors went off
and it turns on the cameras and all this.
And we're like, look in.
And we didn't see anything that would have turned it on.
And it was like a full alarm.
Like the alarm company called us and everything.
And so we're just like, yeah, no idea.
Maybe it was a cat or something.
I don't know.
So we're always trying to find other explanations.
That's healthy, though, I think.
I think that's one of the basic tenets of paganism
and kind of following a pagan path
is listening to your intuition.
That's one of the things that--
not to get too much of my soapbox,
because I could literally be here all day talking about that.
Oh, for sure.
That's one of the things that Christianity in particular,
and a lot of the major world religions,
they push is taking you away from that intuition.
They teach the tenets that the heart is deceitful above all
things.
And so you shouldn't listen to your intuition.
You should only listen to the priests or the pastors
or whatever.
And that's one of the things that I love the most
about paganism is that it puts you back in your body.
And it puts you back in control.
And it puts you back in connection
with that sense of intuition and that sense of knowing
something that even though you may not
have a legitimate reason to know, you just know.
Like you avoid that guy because he's creepy.
And then it turns out he was actually murdering people.
Or you turn left instead of right
because you have a bad feeling.
And it turns out there was a car up later that day or something.
Those are the kinds of things that I feel like a pagan path
kind of helps you get more in connection with
is thinking about things more in a mythological kind of mindset
rather than only what you can see touch, taste, feel here.
There's a lot more to the world than just what we can see
and feel.
And I feel like the pagan path has a lot more opportunity
to embrace that versus the major world religions and stuff.
That's something that I always preach is listen to that,
particularly as women.
Women's intuition should not be dismissed.
And so much of the time it has been that, oh, well,
you're just being silly or oh, you shouldn't listen to that.
I cannot tell you how many women I have heard say, oh,
this is probably silly, but.
And then something profound comes out
because they're actually listening to their intuition.
And that's what I love the most about the pagan path
is that you honor that and you lean into that versus just
being like, no, I probably shouldn't, I shouldn't
pay attention to that.
That's silly.
Yeah.
We're so powerful.
Our minds are just--
Persons.
Our guts.
They're on, I think, all the time.
Absolutely.
So much more fun to look at the world and see the magic in it,
too, than to just--
Absolutely.
It's so--
Absolutely.
Because I mean, it's not like you could be dull and you
could live under a credit score.
And you could just pay your bills and go to work and do that
shit.
Or you could realize that quantum physics
is the way that science describes magic.
And you could realize that spooky action of the distance
is absolutely something that's real.
And that the energy that's all around us,
you can kind of tap into that.
And who doesn't want to live a life full of richness
in magic?
If you want to be Jess Bezos and Elon Musk and just
be a slave to the corporate overlords--
Sure.
But I want magic.
You know, I want unexplained things.
And I want spooky action of the distance.
I love that.
But also the same.
You have to have a healthy dose of skepticism.
But I can't even talk skepticism.
100%.
Courtney--
otherwise, you just kind of get lost.
And you get a little too, like, too be free.
Yeah.
Courtney and I are in a lot of the same kind of Facebook
witch groups and stuff.
And there are so many times that people will post stuff
and be like, what does this mean?
And it's like, sometimes it's just one of the guys that
ran it.
He posted a clump of cat liver that was in the shape of a heart.
And he was like, what do you guys think it means?
And he waited for people to be like, oh, maybe a cat.
And that was you.
Or maybe a cat's trying to tell you something or whatever.
And he was like, y'all, sometimes it's just cat pee.
Like, sometimes it's literally just like it's just
a turd in the shape of a heart.
Like, sometimes it doesn't mean anything.
Sometimes it's just cat litter.
And you got to take it and move on.
So there's definitely that balance that you have to live in.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
On the other hand, I say I'm a skeptic.
It's mostly about the actual ghost stuff
I'm a little bit skeptical about.
But I'm trying to see the tiny little moments too
that could be considered magical.
Like the quarter.
Yeah, the quarter.
Yeah.
Recently, I wanted to buy a Curio cabinet
for my Uranium glass collection.
And I've been watching it for like a week
because it's really expensive.
And I'm like, it's black Friday.
Maybe we'll go on sale.
And so I've been watching it and watching it.
And then like, black Friday came.
And I was like, really watching it all day.
And I'm like, why aren't they putting it on sale?
Yeah, it's like a $1200 or a cabinet.
I'm just like, I can't.
I just don't want to pay that.
And I just kept like him in a hog.
And then a customer came in and her husband
offered me a Curio cabinet.
And they showed me the picture of it.
And it looks just like the one I was looking at online.
It just wasn't black.
I'm like, whatever.
I'll paint it.
And they're just like, yeah, we're just going to get rid of it
so you could have it.
And I'm like, are you kidding me?
Nice.
I love us so perfect.
The universe is just like, here you go.
Exactly.
Love it.
Now you got it.
You manifested that shit.
Absolutely.
So yeah, I've been keeping notes of those little moments
and stuff in my grammar lately just to try to like see
that magic that they have happens.
Because you normally like that would happen to anybody.
And they'd just be like, oh, of course it ends, you know,
but like I'm trying to be like, oh, no, I'm
manifested that.
I made that happen.
Yeah.
And being open to it is part of it, too.
And like understanding they're like putting that out
there and speaking those intentions, it's so powerful.
That's why we do that on the moon circles and on the Sabbath.
So you actually want to say it and name it and say, this is what
I want to call into my life.
That's the whole point of those kinds of things.
Yeah.
And I feel like you can always start small, too.
Just something super small, like a cabinet.
That was kind of a big thing.
But even if it's like, you know, pair of shoes that you want
or something, I feel like you can start really small
and just see like your potential of what you can get.
I manifested a penny once.
So did you just really need a penny?
It was a Monday and we're closed on Mondays.
And my husband's like, he doesn't like to put a zero in the books.
So he always like, if we go out shopping, he'll be like looking
for change on the ground.
He's so right.
When I get the grocery store and he's like, we're like in the
checkout line or getting close to it.
And he's like, I forgot to look for a penny.
So I was like, OK, let's go down here.
And I kept thinking and thinking he could find a penny.
He could find a penny down this aisle.
And he turned.
And there was a penny on the floor right there in the aisle.
And I was like, yes.
Oh my god, I love that.
Awesome.
It's perfect.
You just needed one penny.
Like, now if I could just do that for a million times.
Right?
We'd be good.
Good to go.
I love those stories.
Well, is there any last things that we didn't touch on that you
want to talk about about literally anything you want?
No, thanks.
So I didn't talk too much about the good news of Druidry.
But we can--
Do you want to?
We get to joke.
Oh.
It's a joke.
I buy it.
You can go into that.
It's fine.
[LAUGHTER]
You should.
I want to hear it.
I study Druidry.
And so every time anybody comes into the store and they're
like I'm considering a pagan path, I'm like, have you heard the good news
of Druidry?
I'm like the unofficial Druid ambassador.
So it was plugging everything off.
Well, can you tell me--
OK, so can you tell us what that means?
Because I don't really know what that means.
Solaris?
Yeah.
So Druidry is a nature-based religion.
It's kind of like WCA in that.
It celebrates the Sabbath and things like that.
It's not like WCA in that.
WCA has some very laid down dogma intents
that you're supposed to follow.
How many rules?
The rule of three.
Yes, exactly.
And so Druidry doesn't really have that.
You follow the wheel of the year.
You follow the season's little paths.
It's a very chill religion.
And some people actually say that it's not a religion.
It's more of a spiritual path.
So it kind of depends on your viewpoint of it.
It's all about following the seasons, the wheel of the year,
living more in tune with nature, understanding
how the seasons affect you on an energetic level
and on a spiritual level.
And kind of just learning what that is.
The thing about Druidry is it's what you make it.
Some people follow the path of the bard, which
is very artistic.
So like if you write or you do art or you make music,
that's one path.
Some people follow the path of the ovate, which
is divination, herbalism, working with stones, shadow work,
that kind of thing.
And then other people will follow the path of the Druid,
which is teaching, kind of starting their own grove,
and things like that.
So there's a lot of different ways that you can be a Druid.
Mostly like an argrove, it's completely open.
If you want to come, you can come.
If you don't want to come, you don't have to.
There are no attendance requirements.
You don't have to be a member or anything like that.
Whenever people say, I love nature,
I really experience my spirituality when I'm outside.
I'm awed by looking up at the trees
or noticing the changing of the season.
Yes, I'm like, oh, you're a Druid.
OK, cool.
Welcome to Druidry.
It's pretty much whatever you make it.
There's no central dogma of Druidry.
There's no holy book.
There's no one person to look to that's like, oh,
this is the person that started Druidry.
And this is the main Druid or whatever.
It's all about just kind of living more in tune with yourself
and with nature and understanding how those two things
interact.
So that's the good news about Druidry.
Basically, whenever anybody comes into the shop
and they're like, I really like nature.
I really like growing things.
And I think I might be a pagan.
I'm like, you're a Druid.
Let me tell you more about Druid.
Here's this book.
You should read it.
It's great.
Do you have a book recommendation?
I have many book recommendations.
I have an entire thing.
One of the best ones that I like to start with
is Principles of Druidry by Emma Restelor.
She's a wonderful author.
She's very, very sweet, very, very kind.
It's a great way to learn about Druidry
and kind of experience it as a living, breathing spiritual practice
rather than something stuffy to read in a book.
Emma Restelor's words really come to life.
And she has a beautiful way of introducing that.
That I think is fantastic.
That would be my recommendation.
Now I have a new book to read.
Yeah.
It's funny because I feel like we're a little bit
on opposite sides of the spectrum.
But I mean, I love that because that means
that we're just covering all sides of the spectrum.
Right?
We're people.
Because my path is very, very different than Lizzie's.
Yeah.
I'm the tree hugging hippie type.
Do you want to talk about your path?
Sure.
I can.
I'm very new to it.
So anybody listening for Give Me,
if I say something that is not correct,
because I'm still learning.
And I'm very new.
We all are, yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
But it is going to sound weird, but hear me out.
So it's called Necromancy or the Necromancer,
which it's not the Hollywood version of Necromancy,
where you're trying to bring dead things back to life.
Right.
But basically the way I understand it
that I'm learning about is that any kind of working
with the dead or death energy,
even communicating with the dead,
such as all your forms of divination,
even the tarot cards can be considered
a part of this or scrying just all those various things.
So I'm kind of excited because I just
started learning about this.
And I finally love it.
I love it.
I have a path that fits me and that goes with.
Because I've been doing bone art and taxidermy art
for a while.
For me, that's a way of just sort of honoring life
and keeping the cycle going.
You're giving life and beauty to something that is dead and gone.
So it's keeping that transformation of that cycle going.
So I love that.
I love that.
I feel like I'm a total mix between the two of you.
Because I'm so interested in nature
about I'm also so interested in death.
But I feel like they totally go together.
It's 100%.
It's that cycle.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
I feel like her and I like cover the whole spectrum.
I know.
And even our clothing choices, you're there all in life.
And I'm here in green.
That just cracks me up, man.
So there's something funny that I--
OK, I'll tell you about this because it's funny.
So I've kind of wanted a human skull
just for my collection for a long time.
They are very expensive.
Yes.
I'm always telling people, if you murder somebody,
do not let that go to waste.
So--
Right.
And then do you promise?
Do you promise?
We got that right.
We got you.
But recently, I don't know why it never occurred to me
that the human body has lots of other bones, obviously.
I mean, the skull is the coolest part.
And the most important.
But so I'm studying this stuff that I'm reading this book
called "The Bones Fall in a Spiral"
by Mortellis.
And so there's a thing in there where
you make what's called a skeleton key.
And it's to help you transverse different worlds,
like the underworld and the liminal spaces and things like that.
And she suggests getting a--
what does she call-- a metacarpal bone for this.
And I first thought that was a finger.
It's not a finger.
It's like this bone in your hand.
No.
OK.
And you carve a sigil on it and do some stuff.
And I was like, school, but I want a finger bone.
Because it's like, oh, wide.
Great.
And it never occurred to me in the past
that I could just buy a finger bone.
So I got a finger and I bought a carpal,
and I'm going to put them together.
And then of course, I'm going to rhinestone them
because I love things to be sparkly because they should.
And then I'm just going to carry it around.
And whenever I have to point at something,
I'm just going to pull it out and use it to point at things.
Oh my goodness.
I love it.
That's amazing.
You should make like a little string so it can kind of move
a little bit.
Yes.
So you can be like, come here.
Come here.
Somebody told me I should turn it into like a stylus.
So I could be on my phone like with my finger bone.
Yes.
That would be incredible.
So many things you can do.
I love it.
So many fun things you can do with bones.
So yeah.
So if anyone's listening, just know that I'm very weird,
and you cannot necessarily be weirder.
So if you feel like you are--
True.
Yeah.
I feel like they're pretty used to it around me.
I'm just so weird.
Letting out the whole point of a community like this
is that you can come as you are.
And you don't have to worry.
Nobody's going to give you the side eye and be like,
wow, that weird person over there.
Your farmer likely to get the side eye
if you show up in like a 3-piece suit
and you're like super stuffy normal.
Like we're going to be like, fuck you around with that guy.
Yeah, exactly.
What's the normie doing here?
What's up with that?
You have tourists in the building.
Yeah, exactly.
A tourist.
Exactly.
Have you heard the news of Drew and Drew?
Have you heard the news of Necro-Mancy?
Come sit with us.
We will tell you.
Do you ever have people who just--
I mean, it's probably dumb question--
but who just wander into the shop and not
know what it is?
Oh, yeah.
Like every day, every day.
Really?
Well, because the street that we're
is kind of like between a park and all the Oranco
apartment buildings.
So we get people who are going to the park, walk in their dog,
that sort of thing.
So yeah, all the time, especially in October,
we've had people coming in looking for costumes.
Yeah, because they think we're a Halloween shop.
Or-- and I've gotten a lot better to just flat out be like,
no, this is a witch store.
Yeah.
I think that if you're just opening up front,
it kind of dismisses any possible negativity
right off the bat.
So now that we get any, we really don't, but just in case.
But yeah, most people are just like, oh, OK.
They wander around.
They can appreciate that it's pretty.
The building is nice.
It's old.
We did a good job making it up.
But--
You did.
So they will be like, oh, yeah, this isn't for me.
But I love what you did with the place.
Oh, yeah.
That is so interesting to me, because I
thought for sure you'd be like, no, because the outside
of the building is--
it's kind of obvious what the place is.
But I guess during Halloween, they could just think, oh,
it's just decorated around.
For sure.
Right.
It's like a spirit Halloween outpost thing.
We just opened it up for one month a year.
That was a lot of work.
Exactly.
Oh, my God.
Seriously, yeah.
I did tell August though.
So we opened up October 1st last year.
So we didn't have a lot of time to decorate for Halloween
last year.
So this year, we got a whole bunch of stuff.
And I spent an entire month making Halloween decor and stuff
and putting it up.
And we spent quite a bit on it to his chagrin, of course.
But I'm like, you know?
And I'm like, you feel like this stuff for years.
I didn't really tell him that I plan on doing this every year
so that our collection grows.
Because I'm like, one day, we'll want to retire.
And that's when we can just set up the backyard
hot and people come through.
And we only have to work one month a year.
Exactly.
Because that's perfect.
Long term goals, you know?
Right.
Yeah.
You see the big picture.
He wants to like--
Yeah, right.
He wants to like retire to some like Norwegian country
that's freezing.
I don't know.
They don't even have Halloween over there.
No, you can say you're with me.
Can you live there like one month a year?
Right.
And retire there one month a year, exactly.
Right.
So you got married at the Witches Castle.
Or did you just take pictures there?
No, we actually got married there.
Yeah.
I think I was stalking your website.
And I was like, no way.
Because we did a story on that place.
It's haunted.
Oh, nice.
Yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.
It was a little bit different than we expected.
I think it's got a lot of graffiti on it now.
Did one of the pictures online showed.
But yeah, it was still a beautiful place.
We did the whole--
we did a hand-fasting.
We were eloping.
We had just moved here.
So we didn't know anybody.
We literally had to pay the person who did the ceremony extra
to bring somebody to take pictures
and some people to be witnesses.
Because we didn't even have witnesses.
So yeah, so we did a whole circle on the ground.
We had her call in, the four directions,
and the ancestors, and all that.
I had it all set up there.
Yeah, we did the whole nine yards.
We did the jumping over the broom afterwards.
One of her family members was there
who kind of kept people out at least.
Because it's a kind of a tourist attraction.
Yeah, it's like a hiking trail, too.
Yeah.
So we did go earlier in the day.
But we had quite a few people just stop and watch.
And like--
I would.
That'd be so interesting.
So she at least kept them from coming
into the castle where we were doing our thing.
So that's so cool.
This is good.
Yeah.
What did you call it?
Hand-fasting.
That's just the type of ceremony that we do.
You hold hands and the officiant puts cords over your hand.
We had different colors that represented different things,
like gray for getting old together or stuff like that.
And so she would read through all those as she put the cord,
and then she tied it into a knot.
And that's like symbolizing the marriage part of it.
And we held our rings in our hands, too, under the knot,
and that's the thing.
So yeah.
Oh, that's so cool.
I've never seen a wedding like that before.
I would love to see something like that.
I don't want to get married.
But I want to witness it.
It seems we're going to be doing some here at the shop.
Oh, wow, really?
Yeah.
There's people who have asked--
Yeah.
--and we see those.
How do you officiate?
Yes, I am ordained.
I can do handfastings, all that kind of stuff.
So if you want to get married at the shop or in the backyard
or something like that, I can absolutely officiate them.
We did have a couple get married in our backyard
a while, like last year or something.
Oh, yeah.
Because they needed witnesses, too.
And so we'll be your witnesses if you need witnesses.
We know what it's like to not have any package deal.
Toast.
Well, thank you guys so much for talking with me.
This was so much fun.
Great.
Thank you.
I'll have to come to one of the moon ceremonies
because that just sounds like a blast.
Absolutely.
We have one coming up.
Yes.
Yeah.
Ooh, win.
Let's see.
Full moon.
Tuesday, I think.
Yep.
Tuesday at 7.30.
Oh my gosh.
I have Tuesdays off.
It's like it's meant to be.
OK, I'm going to do that.
There you go.
Let's take it like deathly ill or something.
But come by.
Come by.
Yes.
And we have it all decorated up for Krampmas right now.
Oh, yes.
I love that.
I feel like we get more people who like the Krampmas
than the cared about how--
Really?
Ironically.
Yeah.
I like both.
They're just not used to seeing spooky stuff at Christmas.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
Besides your family shit, that's always very spooky, right?
We definitely put some fanat hats and elf hats on the skeletons
because it was too much fun.
You should take down.
That works.
Great.
Exactly.
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much.
Yeah.
And have a great rest of your weekend.
And I hope I will see you Tuesday.
Yes.
Have a great day.
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
Sorry, I have to burp.
You're totally back.
Thanks, giving me a--
I hope you don't edit that for now.
Yeah, seriously, I would leave that as--
That is Thanksgiving right there, right?
Like, totally.
I just manifested the shit out of that.
I swear, I have a response.
It's just slightly stuck behind a bubble.
[LAUGHTER]