I completely understand the general notion that a creative is a painter or a musician.
That's the typical creator, but everyone's a creator.
And I mean, my god, my accountant, wow, is she creative?
You know, juggling things is creative.
Being a parent is the ultimate, perhaps, creativity, but running a company, I decided to make
all the maintenance in my life as creative as possible because there's so much of it.
If people can tap into that, their creativity is going to flow, you know, the word is used
a lot, but if a person's inspired, everything they do is going to be inspired.
Welcome to the Re-Patterning Podcast, where we believe your mind-body system is your domain,
and that choosing the beliefs, habits, and patterns that best support you is your birth
right.
I'm your host, Arden Leigh, creator of the Re-Patterning Project, an eight-week course in
learning to free yourself from the patterns of your past and program your mind for your
dreams of the future.
Give me for these extraordinary conversations as we unpack the keys to creating our reality.
Welcome back to the Re-Patterning Podcast.
I'm your host, Art and Lee.
Thank you so much for tuning in with us today.
Before we get started with today's guest, I would like to remind everyone that if you enjoy
these conversations, you can support us on Patreon for as little as $5 a month.
If you go to patreon.com/therepotoningpodcast, and that also gets you access to our private
discord server where we love to continue these conversations, ask questions about mental
health and magic and all those things that we cover in these lovely conversations.
And registration is also now open for the next round of the Re-Patterning Project, the eight-week
course that inspires all of these discussions, the eight-week course in claiming your mental
sovereignty through the purposeful choosing an installation of your patterns.
And if you want to learn more about that, you can go to theRePatterningProject.com.
You can also check out the Re-Patterning Project on Instagram where I have all those details
listed.
And if you feel like it's calling to you, reach out to me.
We'll have discussion and we'll see if it's something that's in alignment for you and
for your high self.
All right.
Now without any further ado, I would love to introduce today's guest.
Her name is Jennifer Espenscheid.
And she is a multi-disciplinary artist whose work explores transformation, connection,
and the relationship between people and the spaces that they inhabit.
And she primarily works with clients and communities who commission pieces from her that
are meaningful to them and to their spaces.
So you know what that means, you guys?
She is a creative who has built a life where she gets to be paid and thriving and sustained
doing something that she loves.
Naturally, this is a goal that I know is so relevant to so many of our listeners.
So many of us are seeking to create and install those patterns and beliefs and habits and mindsets
within ourselves that allow us to thrive in this late capitalist hellscape that we live
in.
And this is economically exploitative.
Hellscape that we live in.
With doing things that we love so we get to wake up every day and enjoy the life that we're
living and be sustained by that.
So she also offers creative consulting work to individuals, brands, and spaces to help
develop and translate their ideas into intentional experiences.
And her recent projects include grant funded sculptural installations in Miami and California
in public environments.
That's right.
That means that she gets paid by an organization to create beautiful art that everyone in
public gets to enjoy.
What an absolute dream of a life, Jennifer.
Thank you so much for being here with us today.
Man, just that intro gets me really excited again about my life.
I do appreciate it sometimes.
Sometimes we forget sometimes, right?
It's so true.
Every now and then I'll write out, I think I find writing lately very cathartic and I'll
write out my ideal life.
And I realize I basically have it.
So it's kind of like, okay, this is the direction just more of that, please.
Right.
Yeah, it's so fun.
I think going through, for me in my magic practice, like going through my list of intentions
that I created even just like two, three, four years ago and being like, oh yeah, got
that, got that, got that.
Okay, now what am I working on next?
Because it's, et cetera.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah, the written word or sketches.
It's, you know, it's coming from our heart through our hand.
And then yeah, you flip back through it and you're like, these things exist now in a physical
form.
So tell us about how you created and built your art career.
So I started traveling after I went to school, so my degrees in architecture and urban planning.
And we started traveling looking for this perfect place to live all over North America.
And so I really, I really had a sense of being comfortable in sort of a wandering vagabond
state.
At first it was very, it was not comfortable for me.
And so traveling the world and North America and living out of a car, I sort of, I made
home wherever I was.
So I think that's a big part of why I can feel comfortable in spaces like being self-employed.
I think that was a big part of it.
And then as we would go along at the time we were painting houses, interiors and exteriors.
And one woman in California saw my journal and asked if I painted murals.
And so that began my, when people would ask, do you do this?
I would just say yes.
And leave out the, I haven't done it yet.
But yes, I can do that.
And so that's where the murals started.
And then from that, you know, it took pictures on a camera with film.
And you know, had had a bit of a portfolio.
And I started interviewing for jobs and I just couldn't get into it.
I felt, I felt so sad because now I had this sense of freedom.
And so, you know, it was just a matter of always being out there talking to people and, and
when they asked, saying yes.
And there are just magical people in your life.
And there was a woman who was painting murals in her kitchen and she just said, well, why
don't you do this for a living?
And I realized that my programming was that artists are poor or they do it on the side, you
know, Uncle so and so did that in the other room on the side.
So she talked to some people and it just kept, it kept budding and budding.
And then it started changing from murals.
I did my first show and realized that if people can come and see new things and know that
these materials or this feeling is possible, then they start asking for, oh, can I, you
know, have this, but, but the size that I needed is huge or so that the, it was very much,
I think, you know, vibration is used a lot today, but being in a state where everyone's
enjoying themselves, they're meeting new people, they're seeing art and they're understanding
that they can have something that was made for them really started to resonate.
So each time I would design something, I would just learn how to do that, you know, I'd learn
how to weld or I'd learn how to oil paint or there's just so many ways you can come at a
project.
So it kind of just started out as, I guess, I guess there was a trust, there was a lot of
mural work and yeah, just adding to it and just noticing whatever the universe was bringing.
So it's that part may not sound like a lot of science, but if people keep coming to you
and they're happy, you know, then I just kept refining that.
I loved especially what you mentioned about how our programming trains us to believe that
artists like you're either, you have two options, you're either going to have the boring
life in the cubicle and, you know, but you're going to be stable and steady or you're going
to have a life as a starving artist, you know, and you'll be able to be passionate about
what you do, but you'll be tortured and, you know, you'll be living off of Campbell's
soup and peanut butter.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
It's amazing to me because it's like if we look around in the world, I could actually see
so many thriving and successful creatives around me, but if my programming is telling me
that there's only these two binary options, I'm not going to register those other people
as really being legitimate or existing in a way that is accessible to me.
And I have to say, you know, it was maybe around, it was very shortly after I think I created
the re-patterning project in 2018 that I was hanging around a community and a lot of them were
burners, like a lot of them were burning man people, which I know from listening to some
of your material that you're also a burning man, attendee and enthusiasts in my correct.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I've never been to Burning Man and I'm not going to lie, I probably won't.
I think I'm a little too autistic for burning, like it's the heat and the dust, it would be
a sensory nightmare for me.
But the burners that I have met, I really, there's so much that I've admired and been inspired
by in them.
And one of the things that I noticed in particular is they are so confident in taking
the creative services that they offer seriously.
And when I've worked with, like for example, I've worked with a photographer named Samir
Janjua who's taken a lot of the photos that are like on my website and things like that.
It was such an experience because he facilitates the journey, like from the moment you book the
session to the delivery of the photos, everything, like what's your vision for this?
What are the reference shots that you have?
Where are we going to do that?
And even like writing out how this was going to be a successful journey.
And it was so different from showing up with someone who's like, oh yeah, we'll take
some photos and just throw me whatever or something like that.
And you feel like you're paying for a luxury experience.
So I would love to know a little bit about how you start to work with your clients and
create that journey that is so meaningful to them and to the art that you deliver for
them that it's worth, that price that ends up sustaining you in your own life.
Yeah, I think a big part of it is tapping into the stories and the questions that they
have an answer yet.
I have found, I think in our spaces, you know, I'll just call them like festivals
or very open spaces.
It's so much easier to share like genuine, genuine things.
And so I try to bring that to the rest of the world.
And I think the magic you are talking about, you know, just knowing burners is that's the
hope.
Like we go there and we conjure this and, you know, interact this way.
And then we take it out into the world.
I often feel that that initial phase, my plan name is Genesis.
And I love that initial phase, like of meeting someone, planting literally a seed, planting
a seed and someone's, you know, meeting someone.
Any, any beginning is really important.
So like what you were talking about with that photographer, kind of framing how something
can go, making someone feel really included and pointing out and asking the questions about
them that are good to give me the clear symbols to use or the materials to use.
And part of that is the nitty-gritty, right?
Like who wants to talk about budget?
Like everyone's dream is to have, oh, there's no budget, you know, like work for, I don't
know, work on Star Wars ride for Disney.
I mean, when I went to that, I'm like, okay, I'm sure there was a budget, but I can't even
imagine how many zeros on it.
So kind of dissolving all that, almost looking at it as a component piece of the whole formula.
So helping people realize that if I know a budget, I can design for that.
We can make things successful no matter what your budget is within reason.
And then I can suggest maybe something a little more over the top and they find it really
worth it.
Oh yeah, if I could have lighting with it then, of course, we'll figure it out, you know?
So that I think is usually the hardest part for everyone is placing the correct value.
And so just being able to speak about it confidently and then also kind of assessing that towards
the beginning of it so that everyone's kind of comfortable with it.
Yeah.
And I've found too as a facilitator, it's so important to show up to those conversations,
especially about budget, you know, about pricing, about things that are normally things that
people, you know, might not find it's fun to talk about.
But if you show up to that conversation with confidence and ease, then you're putting
your client at ease as well.
It's all about how we guide the journey.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So speaking of guiding journeys, you also work as a creative consultant and you help people
to bring their own ideas to life.
So I feel like there's probably a lot of folks listening to this podcast right now who
probably have creative ideas within them or some spark that they might want to do something.
And while, you know, we can't counsel each individual listener through through this podcast
so that would be very magical if we could.
What are some of the questions or prompts that you would advise a person looking to dig
deeper in their creativity?
Their own creativity?
How would you advise them to start like maybe some questions to meditate on or to journal
on?
So if someone has something specific that they want to create, I can, I usually take them
to what it would feel like at the, I don't want to say end of the project because things
live on, but that point when you have achieved your goal, like your installation is there or
maybe you want to burn the baby or, you know, a business like, first of all, like tapping
into that feeling.
I have, you know, the evidence of one and watching so many of you that that kind of guides
the whole process.
There's, there's depending on the project, there's so much space in between and so many
things to learn and frustrations that I think if we conjure that first, that can be our
guiding light and then asking the why, like why do I want to do this?
If it's a, you know, an art grad, then how do I want this to look?
How do I want people to experience it?
And you can, you will actually get chills, you will be there.
And then in, I'll just say like the darkest hour when you're like, why on earth that I think
I can do this, you know, and your hands are bleeding or, you know, not all projects are
that difficult, but it gets you through because you've already tapped into that essence.
So I think then asking, well, how?
Obviously there's many ways we can get this done and just giving it a decent amount of
time, giving it a day or two, maybe the first how isn't the right way.
And as you go along, you're going to learn and I have definitely embraced the fact that
when I am frustrated, I'm on the right track.
It means this is something new.
I am going to feel so fascinated when I'm through it, like when it's, you know, under your
belt and it doesn't, I mean, frustration is never fun, but it does mean, okay, I'm expanding,
I'm evolving here.
So I think, I think those would be the main things.
When I talk with people, whether it's about a business or a, you know, it's just really
helping them clarify in their minds, how do you want it to feel?
What do you want that experience to be?
And then the why comes out really soon there?
I love how you mentioned that frustration is a normal part of the process.
I'm a musician, I'm a songwriter.
And I always like, I joke about the fact that there's always going to be points when
I'm listening.
And really, you know, there's some songs that I create from scratch, but often I'm working
as a top liner.
I'm writing the vocal, the melody and the lyric and I'm writing to a track that a co-writer
has already composed.
So I'm listening to the track.
And I always joke about the fact that there is always a part of the process where I feel
like Kurt Vonnegut has this quote where he says, you know, that sometimes being a writer
feels like being an armless and legless man with a crayon in your mouth, like trying
to, I'm like, yep, I'm like, I'm in the crayon mouth.
I'm like, right now, and everything that I've ever written before was a fluke.
I will never be able to write anything as good as what I've previously done.
And it's just never that magic is never going to, and everything that's coming out of
me right now is just, it's awful.
It's embarrassing.
It's an embarrassment.
And what's so funny is like when you recognize, like, I feel like part of the creative process
in really owning ourselves as an artist is recognizing that, oh, this is normal.
And this is actually validating me being an artist because every artist goes through
the process.
Like, do you, I'm sure you must be familiar with the Miyazaki.
I mean, I, I saw it as like a strip of memes on, on Twitter or whatever, but I'm sure it
was like, stills from a documentary where he's talking about going through this process
and being like, I hate this.
I'm miserable.
But if you told me to stop, like, of course, I'd tell you, you know, you're crazy.
Yeah.
What am I, my doppelganger?
He sent me one day.
He seems to just be able to feel when I'm in that.
And he'll, I'll find it.
It says, it's just like, it's like five lines.
It's, this is such a great idea.
And then this idea sucks.
I'm a total failure.
It's never going to work.
Maybe it's going to be okay.
And then the last line is, this is such a good idea.
It's like, right.
Yeah.
The, the self-doubt, I think, as long as it doesn't last is actually a really cool thing.
I think if I am doubting myself, it is a chance to recalibrate and re-choose the path I'm
on.
So like the self-doubt, frustration, you know, those kind of sometimes show up at the
same time or bookend it.
And it's like, okay, I can recalibrate.
I'm stubborn.
So I'm not going to stop.
And yeah, you got to get your, your mojo back because sometimes, oh my god, yeah.
Yeah.
How do you tell?
It really is, right?
I feel like when we get used to it, just like, oh, it's, I'm like, I'm just, I'm in that,
I'm in that spot right now.
And I get out of it every time, every time.
But how do you, how do you decide when you're midstream on a project?
This is something that I sometimes struggle with in songwriting.
It's all get like a certain melody kind of stuck in my head to a track.
And then it'll kind of go around my head a lot and they'll start to sound like nothing
at all.
I'm like, well, I actually, I don't like this at all.
I hate this.
And I always have trouble thinking, like, do I need to throw out the scratch of a
melody that I have in my head and actually just listen to the track for I should create
something new?
Well, you know, which is fine, especially because I'm not working with any art supplies.
So I don't have any like ways to have to throw something out and start to all dismantle
at that point, you know, or digital or whatever.
And so yeah, how do you as an artist who does work in physical media, if you reach that
spot where it's like, do I keep working with the thing I'm trying to work at and try and
shape it to fit or do I throw out this and I start a different approach on this project?
How do you navigate that?
When I get to that point, I usually go to bed.
I find like the, the, the slices between, you know, awake and asleep are really precious.
So typically if I, if I have this question, I have this quandary and like, I'm so proud
of my daughter right now.
She did that.
She's, you know, doing summer school and it's like at what point do you drop the freaking
class that you just spent months of your life, but it's going to, you know, blah, blah, blah.
And usually I'll kind of come out of my physical body and I'll just, I'll just look down
and have this literal perspective.
And I realize, this isn't actually that important.
Why is it go back to like the, why is it I'm doing it?
And kind of as you're drifting off, ref all in love, it works when I'm swimming too.
So it's, I think anything that gets you kind of in a theta space instead of like alpha
or beta, you know, the, the science shows that that's when we're working with space time.
We're not, we're not like on this plane of typical existence anymore.
We can really tap in and that's usually when I wake up and I'm like, okay, we're switching
gears.
Or there's the solution is there that wasn't before.
It's, you know, what this is just going to be a week of hitting it hard.
And I'm going to reassess it a week.
And it also helps to have deadlines.
You know, if you have deadlines and a budget, like, I love deadlines because one of my favorite
quotes that I attribute to Einstein and not sure if this is true, but the job expands
to fit the time alone.
So whatever that is, your installation can just kind of bleed over.
So it's like, well, this, this is, now I have this box.
I have, I can be more creative within these boundaries.
And so now that I'm verbalizing, and I think those two things are probably how I shape
the decisions.
It's, it's like, okay, well, this is what was promised.
This is important for this reason.
And then, and then just getting into somewhat of a creative no mind, theta state, however
you need to do that and just having perspective on it and, and something usually happens.
Sometimes it's just that reboot of sleep, I think.
I love that.
That idea that controlling our inner state is so often I feel like we try to control the
work when actually the swifter route to the result that we want is controlling our, I
don't mean controlling ourselves, but, but putting ourselves like you said in that state
where creativity is more likely to happen.
Yeah.
And I think it's good to remember, I, you know, I'm sure I have a healthy ego.
I am guessing that it's in check.
And I do fully believe because I feel it that, that we all are channels.
None of this belongs to us.
None of it is necessarily truly our idea.
Like ideas come in.
And so if I can let that go, the ownership of it, the idea came in.
Okay, now help me out.
How are, how are you going to come to fruition?
So giving up the, yes, I am the one building this, organizing this or writing this yet, it
came through me.
So how does it, how does it want to happen?
And then, and then you have, I think, a better perspective and also not the pressure of complete
ownership.
Yeah, it depersonalizes it a little bit too.
It, it makes one feel more like a Sherpa, you know, I'm, I'm bringing this, this
thing through like a, like a doula almost.
It's very, I'm sure you must be familiar with that Elizabeth Gilbert Ted Talk where she
talks about how in ancient Greece, it used to be thought of as like a Damon, like the spirit
that would show up.
And, you know, it's like, well, I showed up today to work.
So if the muse isn't here, you know, well, yeah, I showed up to do my job or whatever.
And it's so nice because it really, it really takes out that idea of our competence
being like fully our responsibility when some days like, there's just factors outside
ourselves where, you know, I show up to the work, but for some reason, I'm not, you know,
I'm not in the, in the state to deliver it.
And that doesn't mean anything about me as an artist or a writer or a business owner
or whatever.
It, it maybe just means that I need to be more attentive to my own interstate.
And I'm curious for you also.
One of the things that I love to talk about in the re-patterning project is this idea that
if we start our day with how we want to feel, we can often achieve those things or have
just, or even just have the kind of day that we want to have if we take it away from, you
know, standards of productivity or whatever.
But of course, like we do live in late capitalism, we do sometimes have to be productive, you
know?
So choosing the way that we want to feel at the beginning of the day can really help us
to, you know, to achieve the kind of day we want to have.
And I'm curious what some of your morning routine rituals are.
How do you get yourself into a state where you can be creative and meet all the things
that you need to do?
Yeah, wow.
This is such an important question.
And it's one of the things that I bring up first when I'm helping people tap into their
creativity and their kind of stagnant physical body and mental body.
And it's like that morning routine is for you.
And when we feel the best, we can keep coming back to that being centeredness, even if everything
else in the day is falling apart.
So I usually make my like morning coffee elixir first and then I go to my peaceful space
and I do breath work.
And in the breath work, I've, the podcast that I started is actually about all the
different things that I do in order to be productive and creative and efficient.
And I think when you start with the breath and get yourself into a state where, you know,
you're waking up the body with different, with different gases and, you know, I do stomach
vacuums and create shapes around myself.
It's putting my imagination as a priority.
It's getting my digestion going.
It's really like jumpstarting the body.
And then being still after that for a minute and just seeing what comes through or, you
know, trying to be in no mind, of course, is a really lovely thing.
And then usually I can feel my chemistry change and I can feel those.
I just call them like a wash of chills.
And then I'll go and exercise.
And I think exercise is, I mean, there's just so much science behind it, but you really,
it's just how you feel.
And when you've given yourself that time and then of course, like cold shower and sauna,
you know, some days, so getting self in a state and then I'll check my phone.
So I've noticed that, you know, my phone is basically always on silent.
And then I'll get into my first, like the thing that I'm going to need the most mental
focus on because focus is like, I call it focus.
You know, we do all these things and now we're in flow and I really protect that.
Whatever that thing is.
And yeah, it's a job not to get sucked into all the distractions, especially when you have
partners or, you know, I have kids in the house and so it's, it does take my masculine kind
of creating this beautiful container and setting, you know, setting the body up and setting
my imagination up.
And then there's this beautiful container and then I can create.
So yeah, it's, it's priceless and I, I love helping people, you know, tap into that first
and then they're in a position where they're not, you know, looking either at their emails
or how wonderful everyone else is doing or feeling less than or feeling the anxiety of
a lot of things non people's feed.
So yeah, waking up in good chemistry, not waking up and consuming without intention.
I love what you said also about creating that container and allowing yourself to have that
space for it.
And I feel like for so many of us, I know for me, this is the case, my own journey into taking
myself seriously as an artist involved so much self respect and self love for what I do
and a willingness to take myself seriously before the rest of the world did.
And I made this journey because, you know, when I first started my band, there was a part
of me that was, you know, we don't want to get our hopes up because it actually is the
thing that we care about so much so we kind of actually downplay it.
So for my first couple of years playing shows or recording or whatever, I was like, oh,
this is a vanity project, you know, like, and I believe that because I was like, this
is worth it to me as a vanity project, but this is just a vanity project.
And then I had a spiritual awakening and then, you know, the spirit was like, no, you should
be doing this seriously.
And that's okay.
Okay.
But what I learned is that it was like, no one is going to take me seriously as an artist
unless I do it first.
And if I start treating myself seriously and treating my art seriously, the amazing thing
is that once I start having that vision for what I want to do, like, it was almost like
the willingness to invest in myself meant that the universe kind of met me there 10fold
and all of a sudden people are like, oh, that's interesting.
That's interesting.
And it becomes like stone soup.
And they're like, oh, well, I know this producer, I know that person or whatever, you know,
and hey, do you need some of this?
Do you need some of that?
And then all of a sudden you've enrolled people into your vision.
But I feel like when we are, again, it's that programming that we receive that you spoke
about where it's like, oh, you're going to do that on the side or it's, you know, you
go home and you're busy.
Oh, how is our little artist?
You know, all that, all that condescension that folks may receive.
So what is your advice to folks for allowing themselves the, the hootspa for lack of a
better word to take themselves seriously and take up space with the art that they want
to pursue?
Yeah.
Boudreys have been really important to me.
I think when we, you know, are self-employed or work at home, we're considered like we should
therefore fold around everyone else's timelines.
And so it became, I realized that I was being way too flexible and it was, it was just, you
know, like when your focus is derailed, it's like trying to get a train back on the track.
So much like you're saying it has to come first if, if the priority that day is, you know,
to work your magic on a project, that's the deal.
And so when I started protecting my time and realizing that, that actually is the priority,
then everyone has no problem making an appointment or they don't expect an answer for me because
my phone isn't even on, you know, I'm working.
And so how we treat ourself is the same thing with self-love, right?
No one can respect or love us if we don't have that for ourselves first.
So I mean, I've, I've had a couple really hard stretches in life and the nicest thing
I ever did for myself was really dial in myself talk and be really kind to myself.
And at first it seemed so fake, it seemed so ridiculous.
And I swear it changes everything and people follow suit.
They, you know, now that, now that we treat ourselves this way, then everyone is, that's,
what we're putting out there, that's what we're attracting.
And it's a beautiful gravity.
Like you said, people introduce you in certain ways or open doors because we're clear about
what we're doing.
Yeah, we train people how to treat us for sure.
Yeah, that's true.
And I feel like part of it sometimes is also walking through the world with, it's not
quite like a fake it till you make it, maybe it is a little bit, but it's this idea of
thinking about the artist that we want to be in the world and then embodying that, even
if it feels a little bit like a cosplay at first, you know, but that cosplay can get us
into that vibe and all of a sudden that starts to become the real thing when we commit
to it.
Absolutely.
And I think a lot of that goes back to morning ritual where you realize you are this
container and this energy is coming through you and that you're good no matter what
and you've done the best for yourself in the beginning, it seems to very much align the
day when there's the self doubt or, you know, there's questioning.
Yeah.
You spoke also about the difference in creating and cons, or not just the difference, but the
ratio of creation to consumption.
And I've heard you speak about this in some other places too.
And I've heard that, I've heard that go around a lot and we are in a world where it's almost
impossible for us not to consume.
And yeah, I'm curious to get your thoughts on that and then I might have a follow up question
on that as well.
Okay.
So tell me a bit about your ideal creation versus consumption ratio.
I have found a lot of, sometimes I call it like earning your dopamine.
When we're consuming things, we're depleting ourselves in some way.
And so I don't want to say it's 80, 20, but I know the difference between like, if I'm
in the sauna and I'm creating a real, or I'm creating a palm or I'm something is coming
through me as opposed to just scrolling.
I feel so different.
And of course, it's good to get ideas and of course it's good to, you know, support other
people.
But so right now I'm just using probably social media as the example.
It's like your offer, something's coming through you.
But I know I feel uncomfortable when I have ideas or a design or even even just a beautiful
thought.
And if it doesn't come through me, it's almost like a clog.
And so whatever it is we're giving the world and this doesn't have to be, I completely
understand the general notion that a creative is a painter or a musician or, you know,
something where, you know, that's the typical creator, but everyone's a creator.
And I mean, my God, my accountant, wow, you know, like the juggling things is creative.
Obviously being a parent is the ultimate perhaps creativity, but running a company, you know,
this isn't, I decided to make all the maintenance in my life as creative as possible because
there's so much of it.
And I think if people can tap into that, then they, their creativity is going to flow, you
know, the word is used a lot, but if a person's inspired, everything they do is going to be
inspired.
I forgot what the original question even was, did I go on with the engine?
No, that was actually the perfect segue because we're talking about creation versus consumption.
I mean, follow up question to that was going to be, how do you, and if so, how do you differentiate
sort of mindless consumption like mindless scrolling versus consuming to be inspired?
Because one of the things that I know I do is I will have, if I'm writing a song, usually,
I have the idea for the vibe of the song, first, there are some people who I feel like something
just kind of comes through them and they're like, oh, that's what it was, whatever.
And for me, it's like, oh, no, I can see it in the distance.
It's just kind of fuzzy.
And so I'll start, you know, kind of going down some listening rabbit holes and I'll listen
to other artists and I'll see what's out there and I'll kind of pull some references together.
And ideally, by the time I've created it, it doesn't have any noticeable resemblance to,
you know, any prior work, but I kind of how to use those as stepping stones to get there.
So I find myself thinking, you know, there is a degree of consumption that almost feels
necessary to my inspiration.
I'm wondering if that's true for you or how you would advise, you know, tempering that, I guess.
I call it research and development.
I love that.
Yeah, that's the R- that's the R- D portion, essentially.
So my daughter is going to school for engineering and the more I looked into it, I'm like, we're
all engineers, right?
We're all designing our life.
We're all, some of us not intentionally, but I think that kind of thing is the research
and development portion.
It's important, I think, that delineation of deciding what I'm going to use this tool for.
I don't necessarily have to limit the time, but it's like, it should probably take about
this much time, right?
And you are going there for a reason not to be daunted, not to like entertain yourself
or numb out, you're collecting the pieces that you need.
So I think that's not the same as consuming.
I like that distinction.
I like thinking of that as research and development.
Yeah, that's really cool.
I'm talking to people that are also inspired.
And sometimes it's not even about the topic, right?
It's just about getting back into your, the vibration of just being kind of lit up is
what it comes down to.
And there are people, I think, that can invoke that in us, not in a needy way, just having
those conversations about the complexity of it or by the end of the conversation, you're
just like, oh, my God, I'm so excited for this again.
You know, this is the clear path.
And I'll never forget there's, there's an artist, a painter by the name of Zach Smith.
And he once tweeted something that I always think about when it, I'm thinking about like getting
into my interstate.
He said, if you're ever working on, he's also a writer.
He was like, if you're ever working on like a piece of journalism and you feel like you've
lost your way with it, try explaining the concept of the article you're writing to a person
in a bar at two in the morning who doesn't speak all that much English, which was clearly
something he was in the middle of doing when he was tweeting.
He was at the, I want to say it was like the A, V, N, Expo and he was writing a piece on
it for a journalist outlet.
And he's like, well, wait, why are you writing about the adult performers like in who's
reading this and whatever?
And it's such a clarifying experience.
And mine is not way be quite so exciting.
But I always feel like when I'm stuck in my business or I'm feeling resistance to learning
the systems or whatever.
I always, I'm like, all right, I need to schedule a coffee with a friend who's maybe in a
similar field and explain to them what I'm doing.
And between the caffeine and the conversation, I will come out of that with so much clarity.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
So what are some of the environments that you do?
If maybe not 2 AM at a bar speaking to someone with very little English or maybe coffee with
a friend or maybe not, but what are some of the rituals that you do to create that clarity
in yourself once more mid-project?
I guess beyond what I've talked about is also a good state change.
Just pulling yourself out, I have an ice bath.
That's amazing.
It's just like, okay, state change or leave the house for a bit.
I believe an amazing tool in the psychedelics.
We talked a little bit about that before the show.
I've never actually created on psychedelics and I can't say that I've been stuck and did
a psychedelic for that.
The healing and the different things that come up and are conjured.
Definitely, I would say unlock the flexibility to think about things in so many, from so many
different angles.
And in so many different ways and has really allowed me to write size things.
And then also it's very interesting.
Some of the things that I will just say conjured or come to mind have actually been built later,
commission later.
They were almost the answer to something that hadn't happened yet.
So I often wonder, yeah, it's so cool.
I do believe we exist at every time and that when we're paying attention, we can tap into
our future self and of course, leave breadcrumbs for our past selves.
So I think that's a beautiful way of unlocking literal ideas.
But then also the neuroplasticity that you get really allows for, I mean, problem solving
isn't really even the white word.
So it's almost like conjuring the exact formula to get us where we need to go.
Yeah, I love that you say, Wade, into psychedelics because of course, as we talked about before
we started recording, this is something I want to dive into as well.
Yeah, let's just start with you.
If you would share some of your experience with psychedelics, how you got into it and
the relationship that they have to your creativity.
You know, your podcast is called the Re-Patterning.
And I do believe that one of the greatest gifts that I've received from psychedelics is
being able to look at what I was given that I didn't know that I was agreeing with.
And that's freedom.
And I think with freedom, you make choices that are truly yours and the sovereignty that
I embody and it's a gentle sovereignty.
It's not at all that I know all the answers.
It's just that I trust the things that are coming in and to be free of and have so many things
dissolved that were really a cage.
I do believe a lot of us are caged in our mind.
And I'm sure I have many layers to go, but it's such a fast track.
And also you're here in states that it can be uncomfortable, depending on what you're doing.
And I realize at different times in life, I'm trying to be so comfortable that I'm actually
shrinking.
So to be uncomfortable and talk to the pain that's in your body or talk to your trauma
or have your eternal self giving you information, like who knows what's going to happen in there,
but it is definitely a fast track to your own freedom, which I think is very, obviously
it's liberating and then you're just going to notice more.
You're going to hear your intuition so much more clearly.
It's not your grammar speaking or whatever was handed down to you through religion or media
or whatever the case might be.
Like what is it I really want to keep and agree with and then what is going to give me more
freedom to express what I feel is going to help the greater good, the greater inspiration.
Yeah, it's really humbling too.
I've found my own experience with psychedelics.
It's like you have to really be prepared to get your ass handed to you, but to recognize
that again in that same way that maybe frustration is a sign of your validity as an artist, like
getting your ass handed to you in ceremony is a sign that you're actually doing really
deep and meaningful work because it can be embarrassing sometimes when we see like a
wait, like did I actually believe that or was I actually acting in this way or like how
oh my gosh, you know, but I feel like that's a good sign, you know?
Yeah, absolutely.
I know plenty of people who the psychedelics end up being like more of a reinforcement
of their actions.
So I feel being put to the ground sometimes is like, yeah, face down, sobbing, oh my god,
like you're really getting to the, I'll just say like to the bottom of some things as opposed
to if it's reinforcing my anger towards a person or something else, then it's not going
in the right direction.
And it's also, you know, psychedelics can, I have been derailed by them too.
Like I'll get these amazing ideas and I will like, you know, I had a hole in a clothing
and all these bits and that and and then I realized two months later, I'm like, oh my
god, that totally derailed me.
Yes, that was awesome.
However, you know, it's not to be taken lightly either.
Certainly, it's like the integration of whatever happens in, you know, in those types of
journeys is equally as important, I think is the journey.
Yeah.
I'm curious how you would advise someone who is either not yet done psychedelics or
someone who is, you know, just starting down that pathway.
How would you navigate?
Because yeah, there, I have certainly seen anyway in many psychedelic communities, folks
who, who, who do plenty of them and who somehow still anchor into this egoic identity of being
like super spiritual, but then have a ton of shadow that they have not addressed.
And how would you advise folks to navigate that so that they can steer themselves toward
actually doing the work and not just reinforcing something that is there and their ego already
being.
Once again, I think the, the beginning, the genesis is where we, we plant the seed for
any sort of project or, you know, environment or, you know, this kind of a very special
evolutionary path.
And so I tend to be pretty intentional and intentional whatever I do.
Once again, it's like, why am I doing this?
You know, what is it I want to address?
And you, having what, you know, what do I need to see and then, and then of course it's
probably not going to get you what you want, but you will have, you will have laid it out.
And I think sometimes because psychedelics can also just be a ton of fun.
So sometimes, you know, when I'm in my cocoon and I'm out in the universe and everything
is just incredible and there's all these ahas and patterns and it's blissful.
It's like, what am I here to do?
You know, and then I'll come back into that and things are revealed.
And so I think the intentionality is a huge part of it.
Obviously, set in setting is extremely important.
I can't, you know, express that enough.
And then we all hear so many horror stories of, you know, people going to places and basically
being just processed through some sort of journey and who knows all kinds of bad stuff
happens.
So, you know, protect yourself, set yourself up for success.
You know, you want to go or be with someone if it's your first time.
I mean, and a lot of people are fine just on their own too.
But yeah, I think the intention is very important.
You're setting a container and then a lot of that is going to come in not necessarily in
the way you think it would.
Yeah.
That's for sure been my experience.
Yeah, that's, that's something that I probably would advise to that setting the intention
for the ceremony.
It steers you in ways that you cannot possibly have predicted before you go into it.
And you're like, wow, I had no idea that was good intention was going to show up in this
way, but it absolutely did.
I remember my first I wasca ceremony.
Nobody really gave me a proper warning about it.
And I don't regret it whatsoever, but I had just come out of a really painful breakup.
I was really not even, I would say I was right on the cusp of my awakening journey by
maybe just less than a year, but I wasn't, you know, I was sort of at the rock bottom that
it takes before you get to that point.
And the intention that I set going into this ceremony was like, yeah, I think I really
need to purge the darkness in me.
Oh boy.
Oh boy, did I?
I came, I was like, wow, I, I, I don't ever want to fuck with like that, that glamorization
of like depression or darkness or I'm tortured in pain or whatever, just because I'm
a god or whatever.
I'm like, oh no, no more.
I was like, it was like the universe gave me a giant like swirly in the cosmic toilet of
existential pain.
And I was just like, I'm done.
Like mercy, I cry, Uncle, like I'm done.
I'm done glamorizing pain.
It was wild.
And it took me two years to go back to another ceremony again.
But when I went back the next time, the intention I set, at least for one of them, because
then I went back another, you know, another 10 or so times, I think that summer, but the
intention I set was to fall in love with myself, you know, and oh my gosh, what a beautiful ceremony.
Yeah.
It's wild how that, it's wild how that, how that happens and how it affects our experience
so much more than what I think we give it credit for before going in.
Absolutely.
Yeah, I cannot, I just share with people if they're considering it that, you know, one session
with yourself in that state, I don't think 10,000 of ours of therapy could do it.
The things that you'll be called to do or that will become clear, the information that
comes in, wow, I'm just, I'm so appreciative.
And it does.
It takes courage because some, you know, some of these, it could be scary or it could be not,
not fun, fun, right?
And some are like if the intention is to release or to discover like, why is this happening?
My latest ones had to do with, I was having physical like my SI joint was ripping apart as
my first daughter was leaving home.
And I'm like, oh, okay, there's a lot, I haven't dealt with here and a couple journeys with
that like, you know, it sounds out there.
It sounds woo, but there was definitely the, the pain of birth and keeping it together
for, you know, these 19 years, I don't, I don't want that on my body.
Like, it's, it's understood now.
It's released now.
Just yeah, the appreciation and the release and just the awareness of what is going, like
in that particular instance that was going on physically in me, that's been held.
All these things are actually held in us.
So I think that's, that's one of the major gifts.
And once again, it leads to more freedom, at least more understanding.
We led to like all this different art, you know, about our creativity and more intention.
Like what am I burning today?
You know, so a lot of it is metaphor too.
It's not necessarily a little birth of a baby, but we are all divine creators.
And just being more and more authentic in ourselves sometimes takes these tools.
If we, like, I choose to get as far as I can in this life with my authenticity, so.
Beautiful.
Well, I would love to bring on Tomi as we near the end of the episode to ask a question
that she has of you in your work.
Yeah.
So when we met at Electric Forest a couple of weeks ago, what sparked our conversation
was me being dressed as Princess Leia.
And you would told me about how important that character was to you in your young life.
And I'm curious, kind of tying this in with your, like, muse work with other creatives.
Is there a character that you would currently call, like, your own personal muse or someone
that like embodies an archetype that you try to channel in your current life?
Yeah.
That's an awesome question.
The two that flow through me most are ISIS and Kali actually.
And I really feel like sometimes it is the energy of Kali that we need, the severance,
the finality, the embracing of the shadow, you know, just consume it, transmute it, and
really be in that sort of power.
And then the other would be, and it's usually more prevalent would be ISIS, which is why it's
in the name of Genesis.
So with that, it's, yeah, just tapping into, you know, loving the person's essence and
being able to get them to reveal that so that they recognize it.
So what is channeling Kali look like for you nowadays?
It's usually a, a comment, let's just say it's like a come to Jesus of whatever it is that
needs to be released.
Like let's name it.
Let's call it what it is.
This is why it's not serving me.
Sometimes that's a conversation, right?
So instead of being dismissive or ghosting or, you know, shoving something down, it's addressing
this and being very, very decisive with its release.
And sometimes that seems abrupt to some people and that's okay.
And I take it, ISIS is a bit more on your creative side then?
Correct.
So, you know, having, we talked a little bit more about like creating, I talk about the energies
of masculine and feminine a lot.
And when I visualize them and feel balanced, you know, having that container, being solid,
feeling healthy, that's something that is cultivated.
And then being able to be that ultimate creator.
So bringing things to life, you know, listening for what wants to come through, bringing the
magic and the beauty, I find that, you know, the everlasting and almost continuous inspiration
that I feel she embodies.
So that kind of energy moving through, you know, that sparks, that sparks a space or a person
or an event or a sculpture.
So for our listeners that are just now discovering your work, what advice do you have for them,
for finding their own views and their creative pursuits, whatever they may be?
Oh, probably a lot of, like, I played this with the kids, like, if you could be any animal,
right?
If you could, if you could, you know, have any tail or if you could have any kind of skin
or if you could, like, what really is your ultimate character?
And I think in the spaces, you know, the three of us are in, that's much more celebrated.
And we get to like, exude that and we adorn ourselves in that way and that becomes, like,
we are that.
And so helping people, whether it's through symbolism or, you know, through how they carry
themselves in the world, it can be transformative using your imagination, being, being inspired
like you, people sometimes don't believe that they do make a difference in the energy everywhere
they go.
So it's that, that I'm covering and that questioning that can sometimes, you know, speed up the
uncovering.
That's a really fun thought exercise, I think, for finding that.
Thank you for sharing that.
I think.
Yeah.
Pulling that out on long car rides or maybe I think you're doing, I think you're doing a
great job already for sure.
I can test that anyway.
Right.
I mean, when you, when you walk into a space and people resonate with, you know, the, the
effort that we put out there in some situations, it's, it's our regalia.
And that can really light people up and it can start the conversation.
And, you know, that's what it was your energy and what you were offering that drew me to
you.
And then we have that, you know, a beautiful conversation.
And here we are now and I get to meet Arden.
And so I find that being in spaces like that or bringing people into that energy, it just
kind of starts to bubble up.
And then you're, you're like, tourist fields are overlapping and the imagination is sparked.
And so in that way, I think we're all news for each other.
And that is probably our ultimate, you know, offering to the world.
It's like finding your own personal flavor of drag in a way or always.
That's how I feel in the spaces we met.
Like divorcing this from gender, like, this is just what, what is this like idealized version
of yourself?
And yeah, I feel like I see it almost as a sense of a drag of now.
I can be anyone.
That's true.
What's today's drag?
Yeah.
What do I want to put out there?
And it's kind of like this genuine form of who we are.
And then even when we're maybe not princess Leia, we're given that off, right?
So that's also a very myths and magic coded concept, which is the other course that I teach.
It's a very grant Morrison concept as well.
You know, my teacher who talks about the idea of fiction suits, you know, I always love
to quote RuPaul, who says, whatever you put on when you get out of the shower is your drag.
And there are so many people out there who don't realize the belly of options that they actually
have available to them that they, you know, just kind of go with whatever that default
is that they've been conditioned into.
And it's like, no, everything that you're choosing is actually a choice whether you are
aware of it or not.
How we walk through the world is something that we get to do very deliberately and intentionally.
Yeah, very intentional.
Yeah, there are some days I, I want to disappear.
And I just look like, you know, at my painting clothes and I am, I'm not even here.
And then yeah, we go through times where it's, it's just so much for so long.
It's like, oh, yeah, today let's put on, you know, our symbols.
Let's take, you know, feel, feel, you know, glorious and take some time.
And it's like such an insu-switch.
So it's, it's kind of like music. It's such a beautiful tool for how we want to feel or
what our mission is that day and yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you so much for joining us today, Jennifer.
This has been such a lovely conversation.
And I want to let people know where can they find you if they want to maybe reach out to
you for creative consulting or maybe they have a space they would like to beautify with
some art and sculpture.
Where can they find you?
So I have a website, an old school website, it's thesomashow.com and that kind of will lead you
through what the process is or can be like.
There's some examples of that and then there's a whole gallery of different, some of my favorite
pieces to give you an idea of what's possible.
And then I am on Instagram as much as I can be for fun.
And that's my name with an underscore in the middle.
So at Jennifer underscore, Espenscheid and you pronounced it perfectly.
Oh, I'm so glad.
Yeah.
Well, thank you again.
This has been an excellent conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us.
And thank you to all of you out there for listening tune in again to the repotterning podcast.
We will be back with more extraordinary conversations on how you can purposefully choose the
beliefs, behaviors, patterns and mindsets that support you generating the life that you are
in love with.
So until then, go forth and repotter.
Thank you for listening to the repotterning podcast.
If you're curious about the repotterning project, the eight week course in mental mastery
and creative freedom that inspires these conversations, you can check out more details
at the repotterningproject.com.
We run a cohort twice a year or you can download the self-study version of the course and get
started today.
We also offer a four week course on narrative, magic and archetype titled "Mitzen Magic,
Changing Your Life Through Story" also twice a year.
If you'd like to join our community, the repotterning parlor on Discord, you can sign up for
$5 a month at patreon.com/therepotterningpodcast.
Thanks to everyone who makes the repotterning podcast possible.
Firstly, our award winning producer, Tomi Trembath, of the key master collective network
of podcasts.
She also produces transcending comics, vision in the void and giant sized violence.
Thanks also to animation studio Mortis and Madriacs who created the video for our introduction,
as well as to Andrew Means who composed and produced our theme music.
And also thanks to Al Alvarez, who took the photos of yours truly that you see on the cover
of each episode if you're watching the video version.
And finally, thanks to you, our listeners, who give meaning to this work.
Your greatest wishes that whatever you've heard today inspires you to live freely and begin
creating your reality from the inside out.
Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you again soon.
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