1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,360 If you're a frequent PNW Haaunts and Homicides listener, you probably already know where 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:08,040 birdie ambassadors. 3 00:00:08,040 --> 00:00:13,200 We wanted to take a quick moment to tell you a little bit more about this awesome product. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,240 Birdie is the modern, personal safety alarm made for women by women. 5 00:00:17,240 --> 00:00:22,520 In a situation where you feel threatened or unsafe, you can simply activate birdie's 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:27,200 loud siren and flashing light to create a diversion. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:32,280 Birdie is perfect to carry any time because the device is lightweight and comes in a variety 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,560 of colors. 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,560 So important. 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:41,600 Use our Ambassador link and coupon code, PNWHAUNTSANDHOMICIDES, to receive 10% off your 11 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:43,000 purchase. 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,880 Like our social media handles, the coupon code is all spelled out no special characters. 13 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,840 You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or PNW Haunts and Homicides link 14 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:53,840 tree. 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:54,840 Have a safe stay. 16 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:05,160 As Indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows. 17 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,040 So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week. 18 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:10,480 Let's show them some love. 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,560 You can find their info in our show notes. 20 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,040 And I hear them call me by my name. 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,480 So I run into the kitchen to check and there's nobody there. 22 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:28,320 And I start to like hear like my closet door start to open. 23 00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:31,120 All of a sudden for no reason I woke up in the middle of the night. 24 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,840 My eyes just snapped open and it's that strange feeling that you have when something wakes 25 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:37,840 you up. 26 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:42,360 And you don't know what has woken you up until you either see what it was or you hear 27 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,800 whatever it was. 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:46,640 If you like all things spooky, check out as espooky tales. 29 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,800 We, Cristina and MJ talk about all things espooky. 30 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,040 And we'll talk about the haunted places, myths and legends. 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:55,600 With the focus on Latin America, new episodes every Friday. 32 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:00,680 Listen in your favorite podcast apps as well as espookytales.com. 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,040 You guys were back. 34 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,640 And don't worry, we did get more wine. 35 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:06,240 Well, of course. 36 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 38 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 39 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:18,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 40 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 41 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 42 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 43 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 44 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 46 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:42,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 48 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,240 [MUSIC PLAYING] 51 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:52,240 Hi, Cassie. 52 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:53,520 Hi, Caitlyn. 53 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,720 Hi, creepy people. 54 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:56,040 Hi. 55 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,320 Hello. 56 00:02:57,320 --> 00:02:59,280 Hello, out there. 57 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:00,720 What show is this again? 58 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,240 PNW Haunts and Homicides. 59 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,400 Oh, my. 60 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,800 We're going to get through the worst parts pretty quickly. 61 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,200 And then we'll just get to talk about stuff that's-- 62 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,720 it's not as bad. 63 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:18,920 OK. 64 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,320 I think. 65 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:21,080 Yeah. 66 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:22,160 Like I remember. 67 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:23,680 And then we get to do a tarot reading. 68 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,680 So it's all going to be good-ish in the end. 69 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,920 Yeah. 70 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:34,640 Cassie does her editing magic, makes me sound like a genius. 71 00:03:34,640 --> 00:03:39,000 Everyone lives happily ever after. 72 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,600 I bedazzle the fuck out of you. 73 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:43,000 Oh, boy. 74 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:48,760 Apparently, I need to be bedazzled. 75 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,320 So much so that if you met Caitlyn in real life, 76 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,160 you'd be like, who am I talking to? 77 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:56,280 Do you think-- 78 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:56,800 No. 79 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Do you think they were confused when they met me at PNW 80 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:00,680 True Crime Fest? 81 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,880 I thought you were like, do you think? 82 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:03,640 Oh. 83 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,440 I mean, it's a serious question. 84 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:07,400 No. 85 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:08,120 OK. 86 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:10,440 You were an eloquent, beautiful speaker. 87 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,960 We didn't edit one bit of the live from PNW True Crime Fest. 88 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:16,400 That's true. 89 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,120 That was all natural. 90 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:19,560 Yeah. 91 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:25,520 I'm kind of like a rock where either-- 92 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,080 you just apply an extreme amount of pressure. 93 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:32,720 And I'm either just crushed into 1,000 shards. 94 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,120 Or I become something stronger. 95 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:36,720 Or-- 96 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:37,920 Like a diamond. 97 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,280 She's like the rock, and she raises one of her eyebrows. 98 00:04:42,280 --> 00:04:45,320 I do do that. 99 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:46,760 I'm doing it right now. 100 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,320 I was sitting on that joke ever since she said rock. 101 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,560 And I was like giggling to myself like, he-- 102 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:55,960 I was like rocks are not that funny, Cassie. 103 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:56,720 Oh, boy. 104 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,840 Anyway. 105 00:04:57,840 --> 00:04:59,600 Well, I mean, we tried. 106 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,040 We kept it light-hearted for a minute there. 107 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,280 All right. 108 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:09,680 Part two of Cal Coburn Brown. 109 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,760 Agreed. 110 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,640 On Memorial Day, May 27 of 1991, 111 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:21,680 the King County Police discovered the body of a 21-year-old woman 112 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:27,040 Ms. Holly C. Washa in the trunk of her 1985 113 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,120 Blue. 114 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:35,440 Automobile parked in space 266 of a budget park and ride 115 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,440 lot near the Seattle Tacoma Airport. 116 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,440 Because, of course, by then, they 117 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,880 had received a telephone call from the detectives 118 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:46,960 in Palm Springs. 119 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:49,600 Holly was found wearing a leather jacket that 120 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:54,920 was covered in blood with a strap of her purse around her neck. 121 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,360 In fact, by this time, the strap had 122 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:01,000 managed to work its way into one of the deep slash wounds 123 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,040 on her neck. 124 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,800 No. 125 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,200 I know that's probably the worst part 126 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,920 of the description of her body when she was discovered. 127 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,480 Yeah. 128 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:15,880 I don't like it. 129 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,760 Cal would reveal that he moved the vehicle 130 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,160 after realizing that Holly's blood was 131 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,000 beginning to spill out from the trunk of her vehicle. 132 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,880 Well, yeah, I wonder why that was happening. 133 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:30,480 Yeah. 134 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,640 Funny how that will happen when you slit someone's throat 135 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:36,440 and leave them in a trunk. 136 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:39,520 And stab them how many times? 137 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:40,520 I'm not even sure. 138 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:41,520 That's a really-- 139 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:42,240 Yeah. 140 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,240 No, I mean, it's-- 141 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:49,520 Apparently, the spot that he moved the vehicle to 142 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,840 before hopping on his flight to meet Susan, 143 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:56,920 he assumed her blood would be washed away by the Seattle rain. 144 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,680 Yeah, I-- 145 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:01,720 Yeah. 146 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,920 I deeply, deeply hate that. 147 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,280 On June 11, of 1991, in the King County Superior 148 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:16,160 Court, Cal Cobra and Brown was charged with aggravated murder 149 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,960 in the first degree. 150 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:23,440 He was arraigned on February 26 of 1992. 151 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,440 A notice to determine whether the death penalty should be imposed 152 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:32,120 was filed on March 24, 1992. 153 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,040 The trial itself began with jury selection 154 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:40,800 on October 25 of the following year, 1993. 155 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,860 It's like crazy to see how this just 156 00:07:43,860 --> 00:07:50,520 drags out over already multiple cares. 157 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:51,840 Yeah. 158 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,560 When he so clearly did it, and he admitted 159 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,600 to the other one, it still druged out that long. 160 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:58,520 Yeah. 161 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:04,240 We're looking at June of '91 to October of '93. 162 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,680 And that's just when the trial is beginning. 163 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:08,600 Wow. 164 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,560 And he applied guilty to everything, right? 165 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,160 There wasn't-- 166 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,560 Well, I mean, the tough thing about it 167 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,600 is that you complete guilty and still 168 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,120 be trying to position yourself in a way 169 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,560 that lessens your sentence. 170 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,920 And depending on the situation, that might look differently. 171 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:36,400 But the thing that's tough for me is, 172 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,600 we get a lot of case suggestions or people sending us 173 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:47,120 news updates about cases that are not yet at trial. 174 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,080 And a lot of times, you can't publicly 175 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:56,040 access information about what's happened in the case 176 00:08:56,040 --> 00:08:57,720 up to that point. 177 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:03,360 And sadly, unless I just become an investigative journalist, 178 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:10,400 I can't really do much with those until we have a little bit more. 179 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,200 Yeah. 180 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:12,800 Well, what are you doing with your life over there 181 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:13,920 than you do with the month? 182 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,040 Yeah. 183 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:17,720 Yeah, I'm going to go to law school. 184 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:18,400 OK. 185 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:18,920 What? 186 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:19,920 Like it's hard. 187 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:25,800 The guilt phase of court testimony 188 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,840 began following the Thanksgiving holiday on November 30th. 189 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,680 Happy holidays. 190 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:37,720 On December 10th of 1993, the jury 191 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,640 returned a verdict of guilty of premeditated murder 192 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,640 in the first degree, finding that Cal 193 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:49,240 committed the murder to conceal commission of a crime 194 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,800 or to protect or conceal his identity 195 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,800 and found aggravating circumstances 196 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,080 of robbery in the first or second degree, 197 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:01,240 rape in the first or second degree, 198 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:05,880 and kidnapping in the first degree as well. 199 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:09,680 And that takes us to the penalty phase of the trial, which 200 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:15,520 began on December 15th of 1993. 201 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,840 Seriously. 202 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,960 What a way to live in up the holidays. 203 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,200 Yeah, right. 204 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,800 Just-- it's a lot. 205 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,280 What do you mean they can't really pause? 206 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,600 Because it's like, oh, it's the holiday season we can't try 207 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:33,120 to be the murder. 208 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:33,840 Yeah. 209 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,360 No, I mean, it's kind of serious. 210 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,120 So we just kind of have to keep on chugging 211 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:39,720 lugging through, but-- 212 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,720 Yeah. 213 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:47,040 I do feel bad for anybody that that is kind of thrust upon them. 214 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:47,720 Yeah. 215 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,040 Well, like the judge and the lawyers and all the jurors-- 216 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,160 during that time. 217 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:56,480 I mean, more so for the jurors, because that's not 218 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,720 what they do in their everyday lives. 219 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:01,960 Where is the judge and the lawyers, 220 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,920 while it may not always be a case that's quite the spurtle, 221 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:13,720 they're always working in the legal system, in the court system. 222 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:20,680 There's some tenuous string to at least the processes 223 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:21,560 and all of that. 224 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:22,240 Think about it. 225 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:27,360 As a juror, you're having to learn how every piece of this system 226 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,480 works. 227 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,560 And then also, apparently, you're probably 228 00:11:32,560 --> 00:11:36,360 sending other relatives out to do your Christmas shopping. 229 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,240 Oh, yeah. 230 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,000 You're a bit tied up. 231 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,360 So I know. 232 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,680 First world problems, I get it. 233 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:45,880 But I'm just saying it's a tough situation 234 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:49,400 to be in from so many different angles. 235 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:50,000 Yeah. 236 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:50,480 That's all. 237 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:51,480 Yeah. 238 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,000 It's not a competition. 239 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Yeah. 240 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,000 The suffering Olympics. 241 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:00,680 It's where no one wins. 242 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,000 Right. 243 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:07,280 Then on December 27th of 1993-- 244 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:09,880 again, seriously, just two days after Christmas, like-- 245 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,800 Wow. 246 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,040 It's just a lot. 247 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:14,040 It's a lot. 248 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,320 Do you think they had Christmas off? 249 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,480 Oh, I'm sure they do. 250 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:23,920 Yeah, federal courts, you are relieved of duty, I'm sure, 251 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,200 for all of those major holidays. 252 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,400 So just two days after Christmas, 253 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:32,680 the jury returned a verdict finding 254 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:37,480 there were not sufficient mitigating circumstances 255 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,920 to merit leniency. 256 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:42,200 That sounds good. 257 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,520 Yeah, it does, right? 258 00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:45,880 I wasn't quite sure how you would react to that, 259 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,640 because I thought you might go, wait, what part 260 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,720 of this whole process are-- 261 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:52,600 Where are we at? 262 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,160 What's happening? 263 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,080 Your words confuse me, Haylon. 264 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,400 It is a good thing, potentially. 265 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,720 Some people may be upset by this. 266 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,600 But not these two today. 267 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,440 Yeah, not today. 268 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:11,400 Not today, Satan. 269 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,040 So we're in the sentencing phase at this point, penalty 270 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,760 phase. 271 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,960 I love it when I can find something that 272 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:24,400 buttons up the court proceedings with a summary that 273 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,520 kind of incorporates somehow both the legal jargon 274 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,840 that my nerd brain craves, but isn't completely obtuse. 275 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:35,560 Yeah. 276 00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:38,800 And I just have to say that at this point in my research 277 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:44,320 for the case, the dopamine was severely lacking. 278 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:47,200 And being able to read it and then spell it out for you guys 279 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,080 like this kind of restored the juice. 280 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,920 Good. 281 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:59,200 On January 28, 1994, the death sentence was imposed. 282 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:00,360 What? 283 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,320 I know. 284 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:03,880 And she's like, I actually knew that. 285 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:04,960 I didn't know that. 286 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,840 But still, when I read it, I was shocked. 287 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:08,360 Yeah. 288 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,360 Because you don't hear that a lot around here, 289 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,200 especially this recently, like in the '90s, you know? 290 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:14,520 Well, we think of-- 291 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:15,520 I knew the '90s. 292 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:16,320 --the '90s were recent. 293 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:17,160 They were. 294 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:18,160 Yeah. 295 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:22,120 Well, in terms of when you're talking about precedence 296 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:22,840 being set-- 297 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:23,400 Yeah. 298 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,000 --because the legal system obviously is quite a bit older 299 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,360 than we are. 300 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,720 So recent is-- it's all relative. 301 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,520 So I mean, I take your meaning. 302 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:34,680 Yeah. 303 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:35,800 I'm not old. 304 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:37,080 Yeah. 305 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,280 We're basically infants. 306 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,200 In the '90s. 307 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:41,960 Yeah. 308 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:42,480 Yeah. 309 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,680 Yeah, in the '90s, when his legal team 310 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,600 would later appeal his sentence with a Supreme Court 311 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,160 of Washington, the following opinion 312 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:56,640 was returned in July of 1997, stating, 313 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,000 a balance death sentence is not disproportionate 314 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,360 when his criminal history is considered. 315 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,440 His record includes prior convictions 316 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:15,680 for assault with a deadly weapon, grand theft, 317 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,600 attempted assault in the first degree, assault 318 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:25,000 in the second degree, attempted murder in the first degree, 319 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:31,600 aggravated mayhem, torture, false imprisonment, 320 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,120 and robbery in the first degree. 321 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:40,760 His criminal record shows a history of violence towards others. 322 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,440 His criminal history is comparatively more extensive 323 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:50,000 than that of other appellans who received the death penalty. 324 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,320 And this is important. 325 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,760 OK. 326 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,440 For his final meal, Cal Coburn Brown had a combination 327 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:04,640 pizza and apple pie with both coffee and milk. 328 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:10,320 Of course, his last meal isn't how we're going to end this story 329 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,200 because he also had a few things to say. 330 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,400 I don't care. 331 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,240 What kind of pizza did he have? 332 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:19,200 Combination. 333 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,720 I know, but from where? 334 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,760 I don't know. 335 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,600 You really want to hone in on the pizza? 336 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,040 I hate that they get to choose their last meal. 337 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:30,440 I don't give a fuck. 338 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,280 Yeah. 339 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,960 Have cold oatmeal. 340 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:34,480 Yeah. 341 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,720 You know, when there's not quite enough water, 342 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,360 so it's actually kind of undercooked, 343 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,920 do they even need to eat? 344 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:42,400 Like, where they're going? 345 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:43,800 Do they need sustenance? 346 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,200 Probably not. 347 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,600 He spoke just prior to his execution. 348 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:53,280 I understand your feelings and your hatred for me. 349 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,200 For the actions I took against your daughter and sister. 350 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,920 I hope the actions that you've done 351 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:02,240 are not what you're going to do. 352 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:10,760 I hope the actions taken tonight give you the closure you seek. 353 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:17,600 Looking toward the witnesses, he acknowledged the anger of Washa's family, 354 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,640 but did not apologize. 355 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:28,240 Brown complained about sentencing disparities, 356 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:33,840 citing the case of Green River Killer Gary L. Ridgeway, 357 00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:38,680 who was sentenced to life in prison for the murders of 48 women 358 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:41,160 after he cooperated with authorities. 359 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:49,600 And why, too, Tony, who could someday be released from prison 360 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:55,560 despite his role in the deaths of 13 people in Seattle's 1983 361 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,720 Wami Massacre. 362 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,400 Oh. 363 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:07,000 He went on to state, I only killed one victim. 364 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:12,560 I cannot really see that there is true justice, 365 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:19,320 hopefully sometime in the future, that gets straightened out. 366 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:25,200 When he was done, Brown said, thank you. 367 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:30,160 God bless you and God bless my family. 368 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,240 Thank you. 369 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:33,760 I guess. 370 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:34,260 I guess. 371 00:18:34,260 --> 00:18:35,880 Thank you for letting him speak. 372 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:36,400 Yeah. 373 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:37,080 I guess so. 374 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,280 Yeah. 375 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,680 The Supreme Court has already said your criminal history 376 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:48,120 is comparatively more extensive than that of other appellans 377 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,120 who received the death penalty. 378 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:56,200 And listen, I have some complicated feelings about the death penalty. 379 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,920 I think a lot of us do. 380 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,400 Yeah. 381 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,200 Kal, I'm pretty sure you did it. 382 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,680 And I'm pretty sure that I want you to die for it. 383 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,560 It was fucked up. 384 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,320 But I mean, I do see his point. 385 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,160 Like, he did only kill one person. 386 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,800 So, like, you know, it's no 48. 387 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Unfortunately. 388 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:23,800 I mean, sarcastic. 389 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,280 Everybody just so everybody knows. 390 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:40,000 Unfortunately, in these situations, what we run into is individuals like Ridgeway have 391 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:51,000 unfortunately by virtue of the volume, the number, I mean, absolutely overwhelming number 392 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,920 of victims that he has. 393 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:04,000 It affords him a bargaining chip because there are so many where bodies haven't been recovered 394 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:13,520 or they may not be able to give the family answers unless he's willing to talk. 395 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:14,520 Yeah. 396 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:25,320 And I hate to say this, but in some respects, it rewards serial killers. 397 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,200 If you think about it in that way. 398 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:29,200 Yeah. 399 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:37,320 I hate everything about this case and about Ridgeway, but just to look at it very coldly, 400 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:41,400 very logically, it's unfortunate. 401 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,280 He could have killed Susan though. 402 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:46,720 It is attempted murder. 403 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:47,720 Yeah. 404 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,120 I don't think that he didn't intend to kill her. 405 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:52,920 He's let her throw. 406 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:59,240 Yeah, to think what he would have done. 407 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:00,240 Yeah. 408 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:01,240 I don't want to. 409 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:06,000 No, I mean, we've already talked about it with Holly and there's no doubt in my mind 410 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:19,320 that where things stopped with Susan is by happenstance. 411 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:27,640 Unlike Holly's horrific ordeal, Cal Coburn Brown was dead roughly 90 seconds after being 412 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:36,280 intravenously administered the five grams of sodium thio-pental. 413 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:43,000 Cal's legal team and numerous private citizens spoke up against the use of capital punishment 414 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,760 as a moral and ethical issue. 415 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:55,320 In fact, his legal team had once argued that the state's three drug method of lethal injection, 416 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:03,640 which is a combination of an anesthetic, a paralyzer, and a heart attack inducing drug, 417 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:10,560 constituted cruel and unusual punishment and was prone to error, resulting in an ultimately 418 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:18,440 temporary stay of execution from the state Supreme Court. 419 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,680 Did they argue this before or after? 420 00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:22,680 Before. 421 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:23,680 Okay. 422 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:24,680 But they still have. 423 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,680 That's how he got the state of execution. 424 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,680 Okay. 425 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,360 Yeah. 426 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:36,220 In July of 2010, the state switched to a singular drug method for execution, making it one 427 00:22:36,220 --> 00:22:42,260 of only two states to use the method, the other being Ohio. 428 00:22:42,260 --> 00:22:48,020 And of course, making the legal argument that kept him alive some additional months no longer 429 00:22:48,020 --> 00:22:56,340 valid reasoning to further delay his execution, at least legally speaking. 430 00:22:56,340 --> 00:23:01,060 If you don't like the three drug method and we switched to one, you're going to have to 431 00:23:01,060 --> 00:23:08,140 find some peer reviewed studies that take issue with a single drug method to get another 432 00:23:08,140 --> 00:23:11,260 stay of execution. 433 00:23:11,260 --> 00:23:18,360 Brown's execution marked the first time the state has used a single drug method of execution. 434 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:23,380 He was a 78th man to be executed in Washington. 435 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:30,340 And to date, Cal Coburn Brown was the last person executed in the state of Washington. 436 00:23:30,340 --> 00:23:33,340 Well, that is crazy. 437 00:23:33,340 --> 00:23:34,340 That is crazy. 438 00:23:34,340 --> 00:23:35,340 Yeah. 439 00:23:35,340 --> 00:23:39,860 It was crazy to me that he was the first to use that method. 440 00:23:39,860 --> 00:23:40,860 Yeah. 441 00:23:40,860 --> 00:23:43,260 But then also he was the last. 442 00:23:43,260 --> 00:23:44,260 Yeah. 443 00:23:44,260 --> 00:23:45,260 I know. 444 00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:55,100 It's kind of a momentous sort of occurrence, which feels a little bit odd to say, but it 445 00:23:55,100 --> 00:24:01,980 looks as though he may end up being the final execution as governor J. Inzley issued a 446 00:24:01,980 --> 00:24:08,420 moratorium on executions in 2014. 447 00:24:08,420 --> 00:24:17,900 But let's address something about this case that particularly angered me. 448 00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:25,660 In order to do so, we just need to time travel back to 1984. 449 00:24:25,660 --> 00:24:26,660 Okay. 450 00:24:26,660 --> 00:24:28,940 Just real quick. 451 00:24:28,940 --> 00:24:35,220 Back then he was a freshman at Oregon State University and had been introduced to a woman 452 00:24:35,220 --> 00:24:39,340 with two young sons by her babysitter. 453 00:24:39,340 --> 00:24:40,340 Oh. 454 00:24:40,340 --> 00:24:42,100 Okay. 455 00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:48,020 He showed up at the woman's home wearing a hat and backpack. 456 00:24:48,020 --> 00:24:56,140 He persuaded her to let him rest what he claimed was a sprained leg. 457 00:24:56,140 --> 00:25:05,140 When she turned her head to call him a cab, he attempted to choke her using like a leather 458 00:25:05,140 --> 00:25:07,620 strap type device. 459 00:25:07,620 --> 00:25:08,620 Geez. 460 00:25:08,620 --> 00:25:12,020 Was it from the backpack? 461 00:25:12,020 --> 00:25:15,140 He may have had it stored in the backpack. 462 00:25:15,140 --> 00:25:16,140 Yeah. 463 00:25:16,140 --> 00:25:23,180 It's sort of an unusual incident. 464 00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:26,580 The whole thing is very bizarre. 465 00:25:26,580 --> 00:25:34,380 Later she would state that she rolled to her side and saw him wild eyed staring into her 466 00:25:34,380 --> 00:25:35,380 face. 467 00:25:35,380 --> 00:25:36,380 Ooh. 468 00:25:36,380 --> 00:25:45,220 Luckily, a nearby police officer heard her screams and was able to place cow under 469 00:25:45,220 --> 00:25:47,580 arrest. 470 00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:55,980 Now these next two statements I wouldn't say are fun facts by any stretch, but I literally 471 00:25:55,980 --> 00:26:02,460 can't decide which one is scarier. 472 00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:09,660 Police found a large knife and a roll of two inch wide duct tape in his backpack. 473 00:26:09,660 --> 00:26:10,660 No. 474 00:26:10,660 --> 00:26:15,260 He had a murder kit. 475 00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:25,380 And number two, the woman's two small sons were home during the attack. 476 00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:27,420 That's terrifying. 477 00:26:27,420 --> 00:26:31,540 Like, what was he going to do to all of them? 478 00:26:31,540 --> 00:26:36,820 I mean, maybe he had no idea that the kids were even there, you know, depending on the time 479 00:26:36,820 --> 00:26:40,340 of day and how much he knew about her. 480 00:26:40,340 --> 00:26:45,660 He may have assumed she was home alone, which might make it worse if he startled my children. 481 00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:48,140 What's he going to do? 482 00:26:48,140 --> 00:26:51,700 I just... 483 00:26:51,700 --> 00:26:54,500 It could have been so much worse. 484 00:26:54,500 --> 00:27:00,780 It's horrific, but it could have been so much worse. 485 00:27:00,780 --> 00:27:07,500 Calcoburn Brown was sentenced as a dangerous offender for this attempted assault in Corvallis 486 00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:09,580 Oregon. 487 00:27:09,580 --> 00:27:16,620 But now we're going to see just how far back there's clear evidence of a violent pattern. 488 00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:24,140 The type that almost without exception will continue to escalate. 489 00:27:24,140 --> 00:27:32,820 He already had an extensive criminal record, including a 1977 conviction in California 490 00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:39,100 that involved a knife assault on a woman in a shopping center. 491 00:27:39,100 --> 00:27:44,500 Cal served the minimum seven and a half year sentence for the Oregon attempted assault 492 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,620 conviction. 493 00:27:46,620 --> 00:27:55,580 And he was released on parole from the Oregon State Penitentiary on March 25, 1991, after 494 00:27:55,580 --> 00:28:01,660 receiving a favorable psychiatric evaluation. 495 00:28:01,660 --> 00:28:08,540 He had been sentenced to 15 years after being convicted of first degree assault, but was 496 00:28:08,540 --> 00:28:12,660 released after serving about half the time. 497 00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:13,660 I hate that. 498 00:28:13,660 --> 00:28:14,660 It's great. 499 00:28:14,660 --> 00:28:16,060 I always hate that. 500 00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:23,740 Fantastic, why? Following his release, Cal was placed under the supervision of a parole 501 00:28:23,740 --> 00:28:31,340 officer, who specialized in the supervision of sex offenders. The parole officer was given 502 00:28:31,340 --> 00:28:36,940 a letter from the district attorney who had prosecuted Brown on the dangerous offender 503 00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:43,820 case. In the letter, the DA stated that not only did he consider Brown to be one of the 504 00:28:43,820 --> 00:28:53,420 most dangerous criminals whom he had ever prosecuted, but also that, quote, "unless he is 505 00:28:53,420 --> 00:29:02,460 undergone a remarkable transformation in prison, he will remain a potential mutilator and killer 506 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:17,420 of women." "Origin, girl, are you okay?" "Why'd they release him?" "I believe that people 507 00:29:17,420 --> 00:29:25,500 can alter their paths in life, but I'm not sure that they ever really fundamentally change. 508 00:29:26,140 --> 00:29:33,660 This is not the type of offender that should be released without an abundance of caution, 509 00:29:33,660 --> 00:29:42,780 even at that early stage." "Yeah." "He's already proven that he is very dangerous." 510 00:29:42,780 --> 00:29:49,980 "I just don't understand what, like even for good behavior, like, yeah, there's no women to 511 00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:54,780 fucking murder in prison, so, of course, he's going to be all right." "Yeah, it seems like it." 512 00:29:54,780 --> 00:30:04,860 During the first two months of his parole, Cal had enrolled as a student at Oregon State University 513 00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:11,580 and met with his parole officer as required. And I'm sure everybody on the campus had no idea 514 00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:19,900 which is horrifying. "That is gross." However, near the end of that period, his parole officer 515 00:30:19,900 --> 00:30:29,340 could not get in touch with him. So it was on May 23rd of 1991 that his parole officer 516 00:30:29,340 --> 00:30:38,460 requested that an arrest warrant be filed. It was on that very same day that Holly was 517 00:30:38,460 --> 00:30:43,820 cajacked in the parking lot of the hotel near the Seattle Tacoma Airport. 518 00:30:43,820 --> 00:30:58,860 "That's just crazy." "And just makes me so angry because this is like Richard Gilmore could be a very 519 00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:08,220 parallel case to this." "Yeah." "He spent all of this time in prison and maybe now he decides that 520 00:31:08,220 --> 00:31:12,780 what he doesn't want to do is leave witnesses." "Yeah." 521 00:31:12,780 --> 00:31:24,940 Following his execution, the Walla Walla County coroner's office was scheduled to perform 522 00:31:24,940 --> 00:31:31,820 an autopsy on Cal, Coburn Brown, who was 52 years old at the time of his execution. 523 00:31:33,260 --> 00:31:40,140 Portland-based anti-death penalty attorney Jeff Ellis, who was a member of Brown's own defense team, 524 00:31:40,140 --> 00:31:47,740 said, "There are many reasons to conclude that the one drug protocol lessons the risk of needless 525 00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:57,020 pain and suffering." However, he said it obscures the basic issue of whether the state should be 526 00:31:57,020 --> 00:32:05,660 in the business of killing. "As long as we have a death penalty, we must take measures to avoid 527 00:32:05,660 --> 00:32:13,420 the needless inflection of pain on the person who is being killed." However, killing a human being 528 00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:23,260 is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "You gotta keep him fucking locked up, 529 00:32:23,260 --> 00:32:35,020 though." "Yeah." "No, I think I've expressed this in previous discussions on the show, and I know 530 00:32:35,020 --> 00:32:42,780 I've mentioned it already at some point in the discussion about this case. Normally, I would not 531 00:32:42,780 --> 00:32:52,620 consider myself a supporter of the death penalty, but I'll be honest, this is one autopsy that I don't 532 00:32:52,620 --> 00:33:02,140 care if it shows the subject suffered." Not one bit. "No, not even a little." 533 00:33:02,140 --> 00:33:14,220 "The tippy top of my pinky nail just doesn't care." "No." 534 00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:25,260 I mean, it's a tough thing for me because I can't read the quote. However, killing a human being 535 00:33:25,260 --> 00:33:31,020 is never humane when we could instead lock him up forever. "Yeah." 536 00:33:31,020 --> 00:33:39,740 And there's a part of me that wants to agree with that sentiment until I remember 537 00:33:41,420 --> 00:33:53,180 that Holly doesn't ever have the chance to do anything. "No." "Ever." "Not even eat." 538 00:33:53,180 --> 00:33:58,220 "Nothing." "Like, this bitch got his last meal." "Yeah." 539 00:33:58,220 --> 00:34:04,220 I know her family was very deeply upset that he wasn't put to death sooner. 540 00:34:05,260 --> 00:34:11,660 "Well, I mean, they couldn't know either that the one drug thing would pop up. Like, he got his 541 00:34:11,660 --> 00:34:16,940 stay in execution that way. "Right." "Yeah." "They don't know for how long." 542 00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:22,700 "Yeah." "No, I mean, that's really valid. I think for them, that was a very upsetting time. 543 00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:33,660 I do know that I've read about studies that show that whether you're a victim or a survivor of 544 00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:43,340 the victim, studies have shown that oftentimes we think that capital punishment will give us relief. 545 00:34:43,340 --> 00:34:49,260 It will give us a sense of peace, but they find that oftentimes it does not. 546 00:34:49,260 --> 00:34:58,140 So that's a hard thing to grapple with, to think that you will be able to find some peace and 547 00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:09,020 ultimately, Holly is no longer with her family. And that's something that we just, we can't write that. 548 00:35:09,020 --> 00:35:18,940 So as complicated and I mean, just there's no other way to put it ethically complex as 549 00:35:18,940 --> 00:35:27,260 issues surrounding this case are. I feel like it's time for us to get to something 550 00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:33,580 that we enjoy and that I don't know. I'm hopeful that maybe there's something, 551 00:35:33,580 --> 00:35:40,620 there's something good in a message that, you know, is going to come through in the cards and 552 00:35:40,620 --> 00:35:48,540 that'll be for Holly. Yeah. We got this. Terror. Terror? Yeah. Terror? 553 00:35:48,540 --> 00:35:56,940 All right. Should we do some terror? Yeah. Playing with fire over there. 554 00:35:56,940 --> 00:36:04,380 I know. Well, I really wanted to make sure that they could see in the Patreon Terror video. You 555 00:36:04,380 --> 00:36:12,140 guys, watch this. She's some practicing her shuffling. That was pretty good, right? That's respectable. 556 00:36:12,140 --> 00:36:18,540 I'm probably the bridge. Yeah. I don't know how to do that. So nobody's going to be hiring me 557 00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:23,900 at like a casino or anything, but like this is passable. Okay. Good job. 558 00:36:25,180 --> 00:36:29,500 Hasey, I think we should both pick a card this time. We're going to do two cards. Yeah. 559 00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:42,140 And a two-rollmist. I is promised. Ladies first. Oh my gosh. We just got this card the other day. Stop it. 560 00:36:42,140 --> 00:36:49,180 Actually, you made a real of it, didn't you? I just posted a picture of it. Oh wait, no, I think you're 561 00:36:49,180 --> 00:36:56,140 real. I did a real with the fire and stuff. Who knows? Fire? Yeah. Oh man, we were predicting the future 562 00:36:56,140 --> 00:37:04,140 y'all. We even we drew it in reverse the other day. That is so fun. In our interview with Jeremy. 563 00:37:04,140 --> 00:37:09,740 Yeah. From Age of Radio. She's like, wait, who, which day was that? Which day was that? Yeah. 564 00:37:09,740 --> 00:37:14,700 Okay. I'm going to draw one. Oh, this is so precious looking. 565 00:37:16,780 --> 00:37:21,740 Okay. I'm going to flip it so you can see it. Can you, can you, Vanna, why? Because my arms are two 566 00:37:21,740 --> 00:37:24,700 T-rexie. Oh my gosh. Is that like a freaking 567 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:29,980 starlight? Favorite or something? I don't know what that little guy is. It's a little like weasel dude 568 00:37:29,980 --> 00:37:35,980 stealing some eggs. It looks it does look like kind of a fox. I'm not sure if it's a weasel or 569 00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:41,740 Oh, I guess so. I didn't say the card that I drew. I'm sorry. It's a seven of ones in reverse and I drew 570 00:37:41,740 --> 00:37:50,140 and she drew the seven of sorts in reverse. Interesting. We both got seven cards. Interesting. Okay. 571 00:37:50,140 --> 00:37:58,140 I'm looking up to see what our little critter is. Yeah. Oh, this sound's darling. He's an Olympic 572 00:37:58,140 --> 00:38:08,540 short tailed weasel. Oh, it's a weasel. I said a weasel. He's cute. Oh my goodness. It is awfully cute. 573 00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:14,460 And there's a really I won't read the interpretation because I feel like they're not as beneficial from 574 00:38:14,460 --> 00:38:22,220 the P&W guidebook but yeah I'll get to it on the others. So I'm going to read Cassie's first. 575 00:38:22,220 --> 00:38:34,220 It'll sound familiar if you were on the live. It's a mountain goat on the line. Okay. So seven of ones 576 00:38:34,220 --> 00:38:41,500 in the reverse are keywords are courage fighting for what you believe in and facing challenges. 577 00:38:41,500 --> 00:38:51,100 Interesting. Okay. The reversed seven of ones signifies a time of confusion. You can't decide 578 00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:56,140 how to handle a challenge or which direction to take to accomplish your objective. 579 00:38:56,140 --> 00:39:03,580 Lack of clarity may sap your willpower and make you feel like giving up. Wow. We've got a real 580 00:39:03,580 --> 00:39:11,100 we got a dance and candle over here. Yeah. Yeah. In a reading about money, competitors or unexpected 581 00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:19,020 expenses may cut into your financial resources. You may need to set firm guidelines for spending or 582 00:39:19,020 --> 00:39:26,220 seek assistance from someone else. In a reading about work, the seven reversed cautions you to avoid 583 00:39:26,220 --> 00:39:33,900 problematic people and watch your back. Don't get into arguments with co-workers, bosses or clients 584 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:41,340 now. Choose your battles carefully. And for love, this card indicates giving up on a relationship. 585 00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:48,700 You feel worn down by problems and don't know how to settle your differences. Counseling could help 586 00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:58,060 you gain clarity. Was that the one that was like the don't give up card? It is. It's kind of interesting 587 00:39:58,060 --> 00:40:05,500 because it's like there was a lot of confusion and stuff about the or delays in the what I'm trying 588 00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:11,820 to say. The death penalty. Yes. The state like don't give up. Yeah. He's still going to get it. 589 00:40:12,540 --> 00:40:21,260 That is ultimately where my head went to. Interesting. So our seven of swords, keywords are uncertainty, 590 00:40:21,260 --> 00:40:33,740 illusion, impetuousness, stealth, cunning and strategy. He was a weasel. I don't know how cunning he was. 591 00:40:33,740 --> 00:40:41,100 Yeah. When the seven appears reversed, it can mean either you're behaving impetuously or that 592 00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:47,660 you're overly cautious and afraid to act. It can also represent coming clean about a mistake 593 00:40:47,660 --> 00:40:55,500 and trying to make restitution. Oh, he definitely came real clean real quick. Yeah. Wow. 594 00:40:55,500 --> 00:41:07,740 And nothing about his statement rang as particularly genuine to me, but I think for a lot of people who 595 00:41:07,740 --> 00:41:15,740 don't have normal people feelings, he probably thought that's what Holly's family wanted to hear 596 00:41:15,740 --> 00:41:22,300 at the time of his execution. That or like coming clean about it. He was like, it's almost like he 597 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:27,500 should have saved that as his like bargaining chip. Yeah. But he just like spilled it out right away. 598 00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:31,340 I don't know if he's expecting like, oh, honesty is going to save you a little bit here. 599 00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:40,780 Sometimes this card shows you experimenting with different plans and getting various points of view. 600 00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:52,380 Be focused and thorough in planning your strategy as Barbara Moore writes in the gilded tarot 601 00:41:52,380 --> 00:42:02,060 companion. Be on guard or one of those swords left behind will find its way into his back. 602 00:42:02,140 --> 00:42:16,380 Oh, vengeance. She is a tricky mistress. It is kind of interesting too because he was complaining about, 603 00:42:16,380 --> 00:42:22,380 you know, being put to death and he didn't think he deserved it. Yeah. Yeah. But then it's like, 604 00:42:22,380 --> 00:42:31,020 "Ha ha, you were put to death anyway." But then he was the last one. It's just like, it's kind of poetic 605 00:42:31,020 --> 00:42:39,660 justice, I feel like. Yeah. It's like, it is. It's very strange to like put your finger on what the 606 00:42:39,660 --> 00:42:46,860 right words are. In a reading about money, be careful of get rich quick schemes. 607 00:42:47,580 --> 00:42:56,540 Like stealing money from people. Yeah, maybe gambling or dubious endeavors. Very dubious, very 608 00:42:56,540 --> 00:43:06,780 aggravated mayhem. Yeah. Yeah. This is interesting. Sometimes it suggests you may have gained through 609 00:43:06,780 --> 00:43:16,380 or are considering underhanded means. Yeah. If the reading is about your job, this card can warn 610 00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:23,020 of dishonesty or deception in your workplace. Perhaps you'll need to separate yourself from a situation. 611 00:43:23,020 --> 00:43:30,540 Stay open-minded and flexible so that you can respond to changes quickly. It can also mean 612 00:43:30,540 --> 00:43:43,340 taking advantage of someone else. Yeah. In a reading about love, the reverse seven can mean 613 00:43:43,340 --> 00:43:51,180 apologizing for a mistake or injury. Perhaps you've betrayed, hurt, or manipulated someone. 614 00:43:51,180 --> 00:43:57,980 However, this card can also show you assisting a partner through a challenge or warning him or 615 00:43:57,980 --> 00:44:05,820 her against a risky course of action. And there is an extra excerpt. 616 00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:17,580 Tragedy should be utilized as a source of strength. No matter what source of difficulties, 617 00:44:17,580 --> 00:44:24,300 how painful experiences, if we lose our hope, that's our real disaster. 618 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:36,540 Cassie, I feel like that was Holly. You're going to shit yourself. Why? That quote is from 619 00:44:37,340 --> 00:44:46,300 his holiness, the 14th Dalai Lama. Oh, seven and seven. Interesting. 620 00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:54,940 That was Holly for sure. Yeah. Remember at the end, you're like, maybe we'll get a reading for Holly. 621 00:44:54,940 --> 00:44:59,980 And I was like, waiting for it. And I was like, I don't know. I don't feel it. I was even at, 622 00:44:59,980 --> 00:45:04,860 for whatever reason, I was eyeballing this card and I kind of separated it. Do you think I should pull 623 00:45:04,860 --> 00:45:12,380 it? Okay. So I don't know why I was feeling it needed to pull it. Pull it. But we're, we just do what we 624 00:45:12,380 --> 00:45:18,380 want around here. So yeah, that's true. Okay. It's the King of Pentacles. King of Pentacles. 625 00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:25,260 This big like, oh, that's such a pretty card. I really, really, I love this deck. This is so, so much. 626 00:45:28,140 --> 00:45:36,620 Can't want to look up what kind of animal it is. It's an Olympic elk. Oh, it's a limbic. Yes. Yeah. 627 00:45:36,620 --> 00:45:45,980 So King of Pentacles, our keywords are security, material success, pragmatism, stability, 628 00:45:45,980 --> 00:45:54,780 strength, and worldly power. And this was upright. Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. Okay. I just read the, 629 00:45:54,780 --> 00:45:59,180 sorry, we took like a pause, but I read this whole thing and it was kind of interesting. 630 00:45:59,180 --> 00:46:04,380 Okay. To read this. I want you to read yours because it's not making sense for me. 631 00:46:04,380 --> 00:46:10,060 Okay. So this is the King march through his domain, treading lightly despite his bulk. 632 00:46:10,060 --> 00:46:18,380 Was this, was he a bulky guy? He was a very large man. Interesting. Okay. I think that ended up not 633 00:46:18,380 --> 00:46:27,580 making the cut in my notes, but he was quite large. Okay. Is my understanding. He walked slowly 634 00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:35,340 that his subjects might better appreciate his flawless coat, his regal posture. Just picturing him 635 00:46:35,340 --> 00:46:44,060 like walking around the airport. It's like, oh, I'm an architect. Mm-hmm. He carried his pride, his glory, 636 00:46:44,060 --> 00:46:50,860 his ossified crown. I said that with a list. Wow. He's ossified. Awesome. You know, you didn't. You said 637 00:46:50,860 --> 00:46:56,860 it. Find the first time. He lied. Yeah. ossified crown. He had devoted his life to reaching, 638 00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:03,580 reaching this standing and he was comfortable in his defense of his territory. Everyone knew what was 639 00:47:03,580 --> 00:47:10,140 his and none would try to take it. He understood this world well and he knew how to shape his role 640 00:47:10,140 --> 00:47:17,180 to take advantage of it. How quickly it would all come crashing down when the plates shifted beneath 641 00:47:17,180 --> 00:47:30,220 his hooves. Oh boy. Right. Yeah. It's like a, like a sign of vengeance. Yeah. Wow. It's almost like he, 642 00:47:30,220 --> 00:47:37,100 he thought he could either get away with it or just like do it in a way to where he wouldn't 643 00:47:37,100 --> 00:47:43,900 get put to death. Like I feel like his, I think that was because after skipping parole, like it seemed 644 00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:49,740 like he did these things very quick and he did it to people very, it was like I'm almost like I know 645 00:47:49,740 --> 00:47:55,420 I'm going to get caught. Like I want to get these things done. That sounds really bad. That's, 646 00:47:55,420 --> 00:48:01,340 but it's a very good point. And I'm just looking at some pictures just to get an idea of size. 647 00:48:01,340 --> 00:48:09,260 He's not a huge dude. That's not huge. He's not like, oh gosh, the last case that I covered from 648 00:48:09,260 --> 00:48:17,260 out of Salem. Yeah. William Scott Smith. He's not quite that large, but he's like he thought he was. 649 00:48:17,260 --> 00:48:24,540 Yeah. And of course, you know, compared to a relatively young and petite woman like Holly, 650 00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:35,580 I'm sure he felt it. Well, interesting. Y'all got y'all all on. Y'all got three cards. Yeah. 651 00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:44,300 We ready. I think we're ready. We're ready. We're supposed to stare at them like. Yeah. 652 00:48:44,300 --> 00:48:51,260 How do we get two sevens in the 14 and then yeah, it's crazy. It's weird. I'm a witch. 653 00:48:52,460 --> 00:48:57,020 because he's a witch. (chuckles) 654 00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:59,440 - Have a creepy ass day. - Have a creepy ass day. 655 00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,620 See you next Tuesday. - See you next Tuesday. 656 00:49:01,620 --> 00:49:04,940 - Unless you're the last person 657 00:49:04,940 --> 00:49:06,560 put to death in Washington. 658 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,060 - Yeah, and then you won't see us ever, ever, ever, ever, ever. 659 00:49:10,060 --> 00:49:12,420 - Ever, ever, ever. (laughs) 660 00:49:12,420 --> 00:49:15,420 - Ever again. - You never, ever, ever, ever. 661 00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:17,260 - Bye. - Bye. 662 00:49:17,260 --> 00:49:19,220 (laughs) 663 00:49:19,220 --> 00:49:21,340 So, for all of you that are listening, 664 00:49:21,340 --> 00:49:24,460 if you have any true crime or paranormal stories 665 00:49:24,460 --> 00:49:26,220 that you want us to share, 666 00:49:26,220 --> 00:49:28,540 maybe with a whole Pacific Northwest. 667 00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:31,580 - Yes, we would love to read them on the pod. 668 00:49:31,580 --> 00:49:34,660 - Yes, we will read them out loud, 669 00:49:34,660 --> 00:49:35,780 (laughs) 670 00:49:35,780 --> 00:49:37,140 not just in our heads. 671 00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:37,980 - Yes. 672 00:49:37,980 --> 00:49:41,540 - They don't have to be from the Pacific Northwest, 673 00:49:41,540 --> 00:49:43,260 if you would like to share, 674 00:49:43,260 --> 00:49:48,260 email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com. 675 00:49:49,660 --> 00:49:52,580 It's all spelled out, no special characters. 676 00:49:52,580 --> 00:49:55,340 Super duper easy peasy. 677 00:49:55,340 --> 00:49:58,660 - Follow us on Instagram and Facebook. 678 00:49:58,660 --> 00:50:02,540 Same thing as the email @pnwhauntsandhomicides, 679 00:50:02,540 --> 00:50:05,420 all spelled out, no special characters. 680 00:50:05,420 --> 00:50:08,420 Please also rate and review us on whatever platform 681 00:50:08,420 --> 00:50:10,820 you're listening to and check out our stories 682 00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:14,740 on social media because our meme game is hot. 683 00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:15,940 (laughs) 684 00:50:15,940 --> 00:50:16,780 - Agreed. 685 00:50:16,780 --> 00:50:18,820 - And if you agree, like Caitlyn, 686 00:50:18,820 --> 00:50:22,660 you can also find us on Patreon and support the show. pnwhauntsandhomicides.com 687 00:50:22,660 --> 00:50:23,500 - Bitchin. 688 00:50:23,500 --> 00:50:25,580 (laughs) 689 00:50:25,580 --> 00:50:28,160 (upbeat music) 690 00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,740 (upbeat music) 691 00:50:30,740 --> 00:50:33,320 (upbeat music) 692 00:50:58,540 --> 00:51:00,460 - Based upon. 693 00:51:00,460 --> 00:51:01,900 - Based upon. 694 00:51:01,900 --> 00:51:02,980 - Based upon? 695 00:51:02,980 --> 00:51:03,820 - Yeah. 696 00:51:03,820 --> 00:51:05,460 (laughs) 697 00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:07,460 - Basting a cinne bomb. 698 00:51:07,460 --> 00:51:10,040 (laughs) 699 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,340 - How do you base the cinne bomb? 700 00:51:14,340 --> 00:51:16,420 Oh, you just take the goo. 701 00:51:16,420 --> 00:51:18,980 The cinnamens stuffing, you just keep spraying more on top. 702 00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:19,900 Just like a turkey. 703 00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:20,980 - We should open a turquoise. 704 00:51:20,980 --> 00:51:23,260 - Just like a turquoise called based upon. 705 00:51:23,260 --> 00:51:26,060 - Oh, I love that for us. 706 00:51:26,060 --> 00:51:28,220 - Oh my gosh. 707 00:51:28,220 --> 00:51:30,500 - Based upon. 708 00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:31,340 (laughs) 709 00:51:31,340 --> 00:51:32,980 - Oh my God.