In this case, our deep dive is motivated by the fact that if you google serial killer
with a conscience, you're likely to return a handful of results.
Most of them are far more widely known than this guy, but Wayne Adam Ford may be returned
as one of a number of potential results.
Hi Cassie.
Hi Caitlyn.
Hello creepy people.
Hello!
Hellooooooo!
Oh gosh, you really hung on there.
I made it a little ghosty.
You're just like gearing up for spooky season.
It's coming.
It's here in my heart all the time, but you know, if you're new to our creepy corner of
the world, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides where we chat about true crime paranormal and
all things creepy, spooky, oogie, sometimes icky in the Pacific Northwest.
Most of the time with you?
Primarily.
Case, it's icky.
icky, yeah.
We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode for a little bit deeper insight
into our topic.
So make sure to stick around if you're into tarot and all things kind of, whichy and cool
and fun and intuitive and artistic.
Ooh, look at you.
I don't know.
So what do we have for morning announcements today Caitlin?
Ooh, morning announcements.
We actually have a live coming up as you're listening to this.
If you're listening to it on the date that it releases, we have a live for our Patreon
subscribers this Saturday.
Oh my gosh, it's going to be so much fun.
I'm super excited.
It's the first one like I'm kind of doing.
Yeah.
So I think you did the other two.
Do we only have two or three?
I can't remember.
I literally, wow.
Yeah, couldn't tell you.
I'm super excited because here's the thing you guys with the lives.
That's the one time where sometimes we both do know the topic.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Cassie didn't know necessarily everything that I was going to talk about in the two lives,
at least that I'm thinking of.
And I won't know everything that she's going to talk about, but I know the topic and I'm
fucking psych.
And of course, I have some genre specific wares for the live.
Let me know if you want to know what you guys have.
I'm going to talk about the live.
I'm still working on finalizing some spoiler alert.
There's going to be a part two to this.
Still working on finalizing part of part two.
Part of part two.
I don't think that my angle is going to be trying to convince you
that this guy has a conscience.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say no.
But I think it's an interesting aspect
that a lot of the coverage has sort of glombed onto.
And we'll get to that.
But I think based on that alone,
his background might be worth examining.
If you disagree, then you're just going to be ever so slightly short
on content for a second.
L'eshrog?
Go listen to one of the older episodes.
Yeah.
Of course, I'm burying some of the most compelling reasons
to discuss this case.
I'm burying the most compelling reasons
to discuss this case.
But that's because you have to agree to come along for the ride.
If you want the cookie, my dudes.
What if I don't agree?
You don't have a choice.
We literally have a partnership agreement.
There's no free will in this arrangement.
No, there sure isn't.
Wayne Adam Ford was born in December of 1961.
Of course, it figures that he would be a sage.
Oh, yes.
Aren't they all?
I mean, a lot of them.
Statistically speaking, yes.
I just want to throw out, I know a really amazing sage.
And I just want to throw that out there.
They are not a serial killer.
Yeah, that's true.
Not not not not everybody is.
Yeah.
Hi, Hannah.
Thank goodness.
Thank goodness you're not a serial killer
because I love with you.
Yeah.
I mean, you're not, right?
Right?
Hannah.
Right?
You know Dexter's girlfriend's name was Hannah.
Interesting.
Oh, I don't know.
I was thinking of Dexter too when you said serial killer
with a conscience.
Oh, you don't know he's so much had a conscience as I mean,
he had the code.
Yeah.
It was like a way of formula.
A congeal for him.
That's true.
At roughly two years old, he suffered a fall
and head injury that required three stitches.
As a toddler, there was also a fecal smearing incident
in the family home.
That's all I really want to say about that.
Well, not exactly all.
But we're moving quickly through this.
If you're a psych major or really interested in the psych angle
of cases, just generally, then I guess maybe I'm only
even mentioning it for your potential benefit, I guess.
But I digress.
This is not an altogether uncommon occurrence in young children.
And for such a wide range of experience,
for such a wide array of reasons, some of which related
to emotional or psychological development,
as well as neurological differences, and any number of other factors
that I may not even be aware of just from my cursory research.
I'll be honest, most of which, I don't feel super qualified to speak to.
Is there hard to understand?
Yeah, because I mean, number one, I'm not a parent.
Not that you need to be a parent to be informed about childhood development.
But I'm also not a licensed medical or mental health professional.
And some of this kind of dips a toe into those waters, for sure.
I have also encountered this behavior in scenarios that we're not going to dig into today.
But it's just also not a topic that I'm psyched to explore, if I'm being honest.
Yeah, I mean, neither.
Yeah.
And of course, last but not least, there's the fact that I, myself, do not, in fact, poop.
So instead, let's talk about his parentage,
because by the end of this, you may have some questions about the people that raised this man.
I'm sure we will.
Yes.
I sure did.
Wayne's father, Jean, was born in 1938 in Missouri.
He was the eldest of eight children in his family.
And from an early age, he'd cared for his many younger siblings while they were growing up, primarily in the state of California.
Damn, that's hard.
Yes, kids raising kids.
Right, being a caretaker when you are a child yourself.
Jean would grow up to become a military man and a strict disciplinarian, the latter perhaps owing to serving in the Navy,
because I feel like they're particularly drill sergeant D.
Are they?
I don't know.
Anyone military, I assume, is going to be kind of like that.
Yeah, I would think.
Or the total opposite.
It's really, you know, up in the air.
It could go.
Yeah.
But he actually tested in the top 1% of his incoming class.
So he went into intelligence work.
Oh, okay.
So, yes.
Wayne's mother, Karen, was a cold and distant woman of German descent.
At least once she became a mother.
Oh, okay.
Right, because she was a person prior to giving birth.
She was?
Are you sure?
Yes.
She was, she was always German.
But the cold and distant thing may have been more specific to her particular parenting style than her actual personality.
Did you know that my last name is German?
I guess I should have realized that.
I've never thought about it.
Yeah, so I am not, I am not German.
I am not from Germany, but I have ancestors and Germany.
It's where my last name comes from.
It translates to rooster.
So my last name is basically cock.
Wow.
Just so everyone knows.
I just wow.
Karen was a small woman.
My source material indicates roughly 5 to 106 pounds.
Oh, oddly specific, but okay.
Very tiny.
Uh-huh.
I realize we placed a great deal of importance on the weight of a woman back then and will actually until about 12 noon today,
when the threat level of having a slightly elevated BMI was downgraded from threat level red to orange.
Just to orange.
Yeah, just orange.
Which just fun fact.
I will include a link to a reference page where you can read about threat levels if you're not a kid of the early 2000s.
Anyway, aside from being what I now realize as an adult woman was essentially rail thin.
Karen was outdoorsy as a young girl.
She likely never saw herself in her eventual role of stay at home, wife and mother back then.
Aww. That makes me want to pull my grandma's wedding dress out of the suitcase in the closet, because it's comically small.
Tiny, tiny weeny.
I tried it on when I was like 11 and we could barely get it to, yeah, oh my gosh.
I was like, listen.
Okay, did you have less ribs back then?
Like they had less processed food.
I'm just going to go out on a limb here.
I mean, but I'm just saying like I was a leaven and this had fit a 18 year old woman.
Yeah, what?
What?
Maybe just smaller bones, you know?
I mean, I feel like I'm not a particularly big-bond person either.
I am.
I don't know.
I'm very dense.
I feel like just like I just want to go back in time and offer her like a couple of, I don't know,
I don't have any fighters at least.
You know, we don't want her to like, have her stomach get over full, but like,
sliders, you know, you can like eat ones, see how you feel.
Yeah, maybe a little spinach depth on the side.
Oh, bitch.
Okay.
The pair met at a birthday party when Jean was stationed in Germany and Karen was just 16 years old
and had only recently moved back to her family's country of origin, aka Germany, also Germany.
Always Germany.
From Texas, which I have to imagine was a bit of a culture shock.
Damn.
Yes.
Jean was 20 years old, 63 and 235 pounds with a dark mustache, reminiscent of red butler.
I don't know who that is.
Worry not.
Don't worry, my notes say.
It took me a minute to place that name as well.
The name of his co-stars, fictional character, might spark at least a fuzzy image or memory in the old grey matter though.
Scarlet O'Hara.
I've only seen it one time.
Oh, okay, but she knows it because that was a very blank stare, Cassie.
I've seen it one time.
It was very long.
Yeah.
I don't remember it.
Well, you will remember this.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
I've heard that before.
Okay.
For the rest of you, no?
Anything?
Bueller?
Another dated movie reference?
Huh?
Very dated.
No.
If that last line didn't clue you in, then I feel it's my duty to inform you that you have homework now.
Just Google it, okay?
Just literally Google that one line and the movie is going to come up.
I guarantee you.
It's iconic.
Just do it.
Is it gone with the wind?
Gone with the wind, okay.
It's probably going to be part of the pop culture, either, for about another hundred years.
So watch the damn film.
Or at least a couple of clips from YouTube.
Okay.
Come on.
I know there was something about a curtain dress.
And I know that.
There was?
From New Girl.
It was in the movie.
There was also a scene where she drinks aftershave.
Oh my God!
I like how you went British there.
Apparently the cure for the Southern thing that's been popping up for us all day is just to...
Just go British.
Yeah.
Now fast forward just a little bit.
Karen was two months pregnant with Wayne's brother Rodney when the couple got married.
Their wedding was held in the small village where her grandmother lived and was presided
over by the mayor at the time.
Dang, popular.
Really small village.
Yeah, really small.
He was the only guy who was ordained in the village.
Yes.
And then the mayor/efficient.
Flash, judge, slash, sheriff, sheriff, head baker.
Karen asserted later that their relationship changed that night.
Karen implied in interviews, if not directly and implicitly stated, that Jean sexually abused
her beginning from that night forward.
Oh no.
Yes.
He just waited until she was trapped.
I guess.
Ugh.
In a pattern more recognizable than plaid or polka dots.
For many of us at least, Jean quickly became domineering an abusive according to Karen.
That sucks.
I don't care for it.
She also claimed that Wayne had been a product of marital rape.
Oh.
Regardless of whether or not that was true, it wouldn't even be considered a crime back then.
Nearly anywhere in the world.
Barf.
Yeah.
Absolute barf.
Yeah.
They are not your property, even if you marry them.
Yeah.
Doesn't give you the right to shit.
Yeah.
You're going to be really angry.
Oh, I'm already there.
Yeah.
You think you are.
Wayne would be a teenager himself and likely learning about the birds and the bees before
the very first state in the U.S. outlawed marital rape.
Way to go, South Dakota.
Woo.
Care to play a guessing game, Cassie?
Maybe.
What year do you think it was that South Dakota struck down the quote, "marital exemption."
It's okay.
I didn't expect you to know.
I'm really bad at dates.
No.
And it's 1986.
You're not going to like it.
No one likes it.
Nebraska was such a close second.
This state is credited in some sources as being the first.
That's not a very good clue, but more importantly, that's right.
You do smell a tangent because until 1976, every state had a marital exemption.
That allowed a husband to rape his wife without fear of legal consequences.
Despite being illegal now, certain states still treat spousal or marital rape differently
than other rape offenses.
I'm looking at the stragglers on this legal front like Ohio and Minnesota with much side
eye because honestly, they had some pretty significant loopholes leading up to as recent
as 2019.
That's disgusting.
It's not different.
It's the same.
Rape is rape.
No means no.
Fuck yourself.
Yeah.
Oh, man.
I'm really glad we're on the same page about that.
This could have been the end of the podcast.
But let's get to the lightning round of this horrific game, shall we?
Care to guess when this sort of enlightened way of thinking of women and wives is, I don't
know, people rather than seminal receptacles hit the sheets in, I don't know.
Let's just pick Germany.
And you've unlocked another quote.
In 1997, laws were amended to criminalize marital rape, incorporate gender neutral language
and recognize the effect of psychological coercion.
In 2016, German laws were rewritten to remove a previous requirement that a victim physically
resist their assailants and be overcome by force.
Oh, okay.
Wow.
This is why we can't have nice things.
Just like the dates on these are mind blowing.
Because you think like duh, duh.
Yeah.
It's pretty duh.
Yeah.
Or what it's worth, Jean denied her version of events in his own interviews.
According to a quote recorded shortly after learning that Karen had actually shared her
version of events regarding his conception with Wayne, he was supposedly deeply saddened,
saying, that's really sad.
Though it should be noted that according to context provided in some source materials,
he seems to be referring to the fact that this was shared with Wayne.
Oh, he said that Wayne was told this version of events.
And that's what was sad.
Okay.
So his father denies this allegation, but doesn't seem to be particularly concerned with how
sad a fact it is that this accounting of events is what his ex-wife lived.
That was her experience.
That's what she shared about their marriage.
Don't get me wrong.
I hate it from every single angle.
Maybe I'm projecting here, but it doesn't seem like he's particularly concerned regarding
the allegation itself.
And that feels more than a little gross, regardless of what the laws governing their
marriage at the time might have stipulated.
Yeah, I was just going to say because he doesn't really have to be concerned.
I mean, he really doesn't have anything to be concerned about.
He's fine.
I mean, just his reputation, I guess, but he's a white man.
There's nothing else to say.
Yeah.
Nope.
There sure is.
You know what else is really sad?
Well, frankly, a lot about this family and this case.
And that's before Wayne's serious criminal history ever even begins.
Yeah.
Let's remember this is actually about Wayne.
Yeah.
Story of his life, right?
I mean, your parents have a lot to do with your life.
So although it may have been pretty common place for the era, by 19, Karen was saddled
with two kids, one of which she may have deeply resented.
She also had a husband that was away for his role in intelligence for six months or more
at a time.
That sounds great.
I literally next line, Cassie, which to be honest, it does sound like that last bit about
the hubs being away might have been the only upside for her.
Yeah.
In this instance, major, major plus.
And then she stuck taking care of the kids alone, which honestly, if he was home, she was
probably still stuck taking care of the kids alone.
Yeah.
At this point in history, let's face it, like it's just better if he's gone, I think, for
her.
Young Wayne seemed to crave both of his parents attention and affection without it being
returned from either parental figure.
No.
There's a lot of complicated feelings to unpack regarding this family and their backstory,
but unfortunately, this isn't a session with an appropriately licensed therapist as previously
discussed.
I want to be real clear about that.
We can ruminate on the facts and the various counts, but we can't really do as much as the
empath in me wants to do in order to fix the countless broken or damaged lives that are
intertwined here.
I guess that might really be the saddest part.
Yeah.
Because where do you trace all of this back to?
And there's just a lot of what I think most people would consider evil, just ugliness.
Yeah.
Just keeps getting trickled down through the family line.
That's trickled down economics.
Reagan invented that.
Oh, really?
You had no idea.
It's frequently been reported that although Jean denied the allegations in interviews that
Karen likely needed to disassociate from her youngest son as a result of her PTSD and
trauma following the sexual assault by her husband that resulted in her pregnancy with
Wayne.
It's just like a daily reminder that's so sad.
We know that Karen had at least one prior pregnancy that she carried to term.
She had given birth to Wayne's brother Rodney, aka his father, Jean's clear favorite.
So another element of just like, yeah, be better.
This was according to some recollections provided later at least.
So a lot of people felt like, oh, yeah, no, it was totally like obvious that Jean had a
favorite child, which is not great.
I don't understand why.
You made the other one happen too.
Yeah.
I mean, as kids grow up, they have their own individual personalities and, you know, I get
that there might be characteristics that like you relate to one child more in certain respects
than another, but you don't get to have a favorite child.
That's, yeah.
I don't know.
I mean, hot take, I guess.
Yeah.
Is that I don't, I don't think I'm going out on a limb with that idea of that.
I don't think so.
The couple fought almost constantly throughout their marriage.
It's probably not hard for most of us to imagine that at this point.
And it would get much worse before it eventually, well, it never got better.
Not in a happily ever after sort of way.
That's for sure.
Any type of way.
In the late 1960s, Jean was assigned to Okinawa, Japan, and the whole family relocated.
Wow.
Yes.
And Karen was miserable there and it led to an eventual suicide attempt.
As a result, she returned to Urega, which is in very, very northern California.
I still sometimes think of it as Oregon, though, because people actually misattributed it
in Oregon, but that's where she started having and heavy air quotes here.
Affair with her husband's 15-year-old brother, Billy.
Uh-huh.
I would...
Uh-huh.
I was not expecting you to say that.
Uh-huh.
Wow.
Okay.
Yeah.
Which, listen, if you're a grown-ass married woman sleeping with a 15-year-old boy, that's,
that's not an affair.
We have a different term for that.
That is also rape.
Yeah, that is statutory rape.
Is rape.
It's all rape.
And if you're mad at or hate your husband enough to do that with his kid brother to add insult
to injury, it's time to see a divorce lawyer.
Yeah.
Because it's bad enough to cheat and it would be bad enough to be unfaithful to your husband
with a child, but then for it to be his kid brother.
Yikes.
Of course.
When Jean returned to Eureka and found out he was livid and forced the family to move
after buying a house in Santa Rosa some 200-plus miles away.
Not really sure how that affected his relationship with his brother going forward.
I have to imagine not great.
Probably not great.
Yeah.
How old was she?
She was obviously over 18.
Yeah.
But I know she was young when they got married.
She was 16 when they got married.
I'm guessing.
I mean, she was probably early 20s.
I heard an interesting thing about people who are sexually attracted to younger people.
I can't remember where I heard it.
I don't know if we talked about it on the podcast with someone who was knowledgeable or if
I was watching a documentary or something.
But it was about how when you're sexually traumatized as a child, like she was a child
when she got married and raped, right?
Yeah.
It's like your brain kind of stays sexually in that age.
Yeah.
There's a lot of really interesting sort of psychological principles around sexual trauma
and the effect that abuse has on your brain.
Yeah.
Not okay.
Yeah.
That's such a tough thing because I mean, it's really hard.
It's really like, it's a black and white thing and is it's wrong?
But it's like, there is like this gray area.
Right.
Well, and then of course, there's Mary Kay Litternow.
There's sort of this idea that like, that's not abuse.
You know, she's a woman who's slapped with her.
I mean, not even close.
We're not even talking about like, oh, it's a really mature 17 year old.
We're talking about like a 12 or a 13 year old.
Oh, God.
An actual child who is not altogether that far off from the age of your own children.
So, no.
No.
But we have this tendency to be like, we want to like slap this, you know, boy on the ass,
like it's a locker room.
Yeah.
He just won the big game like, oh, good for you.
Score.
Hot teacher man.
It's gross.
Yeah, it's not.
No care for it.
By 1969, Jean was discharged and returned to living in the family home.
But of course, this did nothing to ease the household tension because actually it brought
all of the sources of the tension into the one household.
Yeah.
That's how that works.
The couple would divorce in the early 1970s.
His parents' separation when Wayne was 10 years old resulted in a greater disconnect between
him and both of his parents as they begin dating again.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So, he's just like a little kid that's already feeling as if, you know, they don't love him
as much and then that happens and just the disconnect.
You know, just that he's not getting what he needs to develop a healthy emotional bond.
Yeah.
And then they're just going to go pay attention to their new partners and, right.
As Wayne got older, he became increasingly aggressive and his behavior was problematic
at school.
Unfortunately, some of this behavior went beyond the classroom.
Karen kicked both boys out of their home, starting with Wayne and then eventually the older brother
Rodney.
Oh, that makes sense.
Yeah.
Kick out the younger one first.
Well, she liked him a lot less.
Yeah.
So, you know, their father recalled receiving a phone call from Wayne, stating he was out
on the porch and wondered if his father would take him in.
He did.
When Rodney was unceremoniously locked out of the home one night, he simply started staying
with the families of neighborhood friends, alternately.
So he was couch surfing.
Rodney or Rod, well, okay.
So it started with Wayne and then it happened to Rodney as well.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
When their father learned of this, he would insist that Rodney come to live with him as
well, much to Wayne's chagrin.
Yeah.
He wasn't super psyched.
I can't imagine why.
Great.
I love how your favorite child is going to come in love with us, me, the other child that's
just, okay, cool.
Wayne didn't like helping his father with construction projects as his brother Rodney did.
And you can see where just again, the divide is becoming greater and greater between him
and just about everybody in his potential support system.
The issues prevailed when as a teen, Wayne robbed a store while wielding a gun, so escalating
pretty quickly.
I think most of us would like to believe that we'd be self-aware enough to see the writing
on the wall, that this was likely an early cry for help.
However, his dad worked out a remarkably lenient punishment for him in this instance.
Which is always great, please, let mediocre white men off the hook easily.
When has that ever worked out poorly?
Probably just didn't care.
He said whatever.
Yeah.
He had to wash police cars after school for a few weeks.
But eventually, this led to him stealing a cruiser for a joy ride.
Boys will be boys.
Am I right?
Oh, God.
Wayne enrolled in the Marine Corps at 17 with the encouragement of his parents.
He arrived at boot camp in January of 1979, and thus began his somewhat tumultuous career
in the military.
Though it didn't exactly instill the discipline that his parents might have expected.
In October of 1980, he met Kelly.
He was a blonde-haired slender college student known to be a very kind young woman.
How that ever ended up happening, I will never know.
He was kind of the worst out the gate.
I mean women like the bad boys.
They really do.
We're drawn to...
Yeah.
Listen, he would claim that he forgot her number after not calling her for days.
And so I presume we're supposed to believe that what?
He didn't own a pen?
Couldn't write it down.
Okay.
Oh boy.
Then on the flip side, he would also have fit several miles off base to come and visit her
at other times.
Classic fuckboy playbook stuff here, guys.
Seriously.
Yes.
Regass lighting and love bombing at the same time.
Oh, key terms.
Nearly as addictive as crack.
Crack a cane?
That is a rumor.
I have not scientifically tested that.
Nope.
Don't plan to.
It's exactly the type of energy most of us have been trying to avoid ever since we went
through our own personal, douche-filled, rough patches in our respective dating histories.
If I'm wrong, all you have to do is write in and tell me that you have no idea what I'm
talking about.
My prediction is we receive zero emails on that topic.
If you dated the same person your whole damn life and then married them, you have still
heard from your single friends at one point or another.
What a minefield dating can be, so don't email us if you're that person either.
Their relationship would take a turn in November 1980 when they saw a car accident on the side
of the road as they drove home from a dinner date.
At the scene of the accident, though EMS workers quickly took over and police were on the scene
Wayne was hit by a drunk driver.
What?
Oh my god.
There was already an accident.
Uh-huh.
And then the drunk driver hit people that were there as innocent bystanders trying to help
the people that had already been in an accident.
What is going on in this town?
Yeah, couldn't tell you.
The impact shattered his front teeth, broke his jaw, and allegedly caused a serious head injury.
Oh no.
He was even in a coma for nine days.
And you said he already had a head injury as a child?
I mean, he says he did.
It sounds like we have no reason not to believe that, but either way it's bad.
It's not great.
This is also not great.
Kelly didn't realize he'd been hit by the drunk driver because she'd been gone for about
20 minutes looking for a pay phone to call 911.
Oh, for the first accident.
Oh my gosh.
When other witnesses at the scene asked her if she had seen the third vehicle, she responded
she'd been in it, to which they countered, "No, the red car."
We're going in another bystander, we're both hit by the drunk driver and have been thrown
down in embankment, some 40 feet.
Oh my God.
Yep.
Fuck.
She does not realize this, even though people were like, "No, no, no, the other car."
She's still like, there's just a disconnect there.
Well, there would be.
Yep.
That's very confusing.
There would be.
So she drove around looking for him, confused about where he had gone, but also she's
like, "Well, it's kind of a fuck, boy."
Guess he just disappears on our dates now.
I mean, boy who cried wolf, that's what happens.
Between all the chaos at the scene, neither she or anyone else there realized that the man
that had been hit by the drunk driver and her date had been won in the same.
Wow.
Yikes.
Wayne has frequently maintained that he believes he suffered serious injury to his
brain, which I don't doubt, but I just don't know that it's responsible, Wayne.
It's unclear what if any brain damage resulted.
However, according to both Kelly and his relatives, his personality drastically changed after
the incident.
When he woke from the coma, Wayne asked for her and Kelly came running.
When Kelly arrived at the hospital, she was a little confused because there was a sign
that said only visitors allowed were family members.
So why the hell did they call her if she wasn't going to be able to visit him?
The nurse was relieved to see her and waved her on through, stating that he'd been repeating
Kelly's phone number nonstop until they promised to call her.
Oh my gosh, so he did have her number memorized.
He did after...
Listen, his face was black and blue at roughly twice its normal size.
And aside from his lip being nearly torn off, he was also concussed.
Weird how after a serious injury like what he had that he did, in fact, remember her phone
number.
Maybe it just shook it loose a little bit.
It shook some things loose, alright?
Kelly thought it was pretty sus, that all of a sudden he could remember her phone number
without any problem following such a traumatic ordeal, but apparently she didn't feel like
pressing the issue.
Girl, it's Red Flag City up in that hospital bed.
Run.
It's not like he's well enough to follow, so make the most of the opportunity for crying
out loud.
Seriously, run.
What's he going to do?
Yang Gowd is IV.
Come on, not victim blaming.
Just sometimes I wish that I could time travel and, you know, narrate certain people's inner
monologue so that I could motivate them to do the thing that I wish that they had done.
That's not weird, is it?
No, okay.
Perfect.
Kelly met Karen, so that's Wayne's mother, after the accident.
Kelly also ended up caring for him for about a week or so after he was released from hospital.
Though Karen reached out to them, Wayne's father and brother apparently did not understand
the serious nature of his injuries until years later.
And it's pretty wild.
Wayne reported that he had died from the collision and had only been revived after the fact.
Oh, okay.
Now we're talking like near death experience, like, come on.
Did he see Elvis?
Not to my knowledge.
Kelly also was said to notice a shift in Wayne, but here's the thing, it didn't scare her off
because he was actually seemingly more friendly and kinder than ever.
Hmm.
He was cured.
He was cured of the fuck boy.
Just a little knock on the head is the fuck boy, Kure.
So I bet you can see where this is going.
Two people trauma bonded by a devastating or life altering event.
Well, in May 1981, they alloped.
Oh, did they?
Yeah.
Sure did.
Once they were married, things apparently changed quickly.
Some familiar?
A little bit, a little bit.
Like father like son, allegedly.
The typical violent and abusive pattern emerged as he became angry and demanding.
He hit her one day when she had the audacity to query about his family after the wedding.
Oh, okay.
So unreasonable to think that she could just like ask questions about her in-laws.
Honestly, the nerve.
Well he tried to hit her actually and he missed, but whatever he did, it broke all of the
knuckles in his right hand.
Holy shit.
That isn't karma.
I don't even know what is.
I know.
And I'm not the least bit sorry when I say I wish he had shattered a bone in his hand that
would have swam throughout his body and lodged into his spine to paralyze him permanently,
preferably following a rectal perforation.
Agreed.
But of course, as I think you all know, it gets worse and not at all in that way.
The rectal perforation, which is own boneway, which would have arguably been way better,
but whatever.
As newlyweds, I'm sure they were happily and frequently enjoying, shall we say, marital
relations?
Yes, that's what we'll say because I'm secretly 80 years old.
They were bone in.
All the signs have been there, people.
I'm an old.
Well as the female body is apt to do at times, Kelly became pregnant.
He forced her to have an abortion when she became pregnant, all the while demanding more
sex.
Why?
They're married.
And here's the thing, this is not an abortion that she wanted.
So just barf city all around with this dude.
Oh my God.
I mean, I didn't mean by that comment that if you're married, you can't have an abortion.
I just meant like, I don't see his reasoning like they're mid-winter child.
I just...
Yeah.
I love it when women have no bodily autonomy, like back then and then also possibly arguably
in the near future slash present because we might be living in the prequel of the headmaids
tale.
And I know that you don't want to believe me, but it definitely gets even grosser in 1982.
That's when he took a trip to Big Bear with his marine buddies.
They went roller skating and met a couple of teenage girls because obviously what a normal
thing to do with your bros.
These gross idiots invited two 15 year old girls back to their cabin.
The two young girls were assaulted because men are trash and not in the cute way that like
raccoons are lovingly referred to as trash pandas.
Ew.
At certain points in history, not too distant a time at this point in the timeline, people
hitchhiked without incident.
So why would these young girls think that anything bad would happen to them?
You know what I mean?
They should think that.
They should have the right to think that nothing bad will happen to them.
Yeah.
Yep.
That's the part I never understand about all of the rampant victim blaming mentality.
And I'm sorry.
You've probably heard some version of this scenario before, but whether she's 14, 24 or
44, a female or a female presenting person should be able to walk down any goddamn street
well lit or not at any hour of the day or night, wearing whatever the fuck she feels like,
you do not have to be concerned about being sexually assaulted and/or murdered.
Wild.
I mean, just a hot take.
I mean, we learn this in fucking elementary school.
Like, stay in your bubble, don't...
Yeah.
I can touch your own self.
You have a body, touch that.
Do what you want with that one.
Don't take someone else's.
Yeah.
What's theirs?
Sadly, it's just not the world we live in.
It's not the reality of the situation at this time and place or any other in human history.
Yep.
That's optimistic.
Yeah.
I like where it's at.
One of Wayne's friends went to drive the girls home, but when they pulled the vehicle over
to assist another that was stranded on the side of the road, one of the girls screamed
for help indicating they had been assaulted.
And it was at this point in the story that I go, "Why the hell does something bad happen
every time this guy pulls over to help somebody on the side of the road?"
Some of the details aren't totally clear around this particular portion of the evening
and the incident that took place, but the end result was that Wayne was arrested for attempted
rape.
Now that girl would later decline to press charges and was unavailable to make a statement
regarding the incident.
But I think it's fair to say that it's more than likely pretty clear what happened here
and it wasn't good.
And I hate it.
Okay, bye.
The couple would move shortly thereafter to Santa Ana because he's already been taught
from an early age that, you know, when you have problems, you just move.
They can't follow you.
Following the move to Santa Ana, there was a small window of time in the remainder of the
early 1980s where they moved repeatedly.
He was still enlisted in the military at this time, but they were seeking some stability
in terms of income.
He would screw up at a job and then they would take off.
He would find something new for work each time to keep them afloat until eventually Kelly
was the one to find gainful employment, which certainly threatened his masculinity.
Of course it did.
His need for control only increased from the early warning signs like telling Kelly what
to wear each day and it only continued to escalate.
One night in 1983 when she went out with coworkers for dinner and he hadn't heard from her, his
paranoia that Kelly was cheating was fueled to a fever pitch.
Presumably drunk by the time she showed up at home, Wayne had geared up in the full camo
get up.
What?
And was lying in wait with his bow and arrow in the yard so that he could catch her red
handed and attack whatever man she was out with and obviously having an affair with because
nothing says camo like tequila.
Am I right?
Oh my god.
He was just outside with a bow and arrow hiding and waiting for a person.
Or maybe that's a whiskey thing.
Me drink too much whiskey is just what you do.
Well, Kelly wasn't sticking around to figure it out.
We'll get into their divorce along with the rest of the downward spiral next as in next
week.
What a freaking weirdo and not in a good way.
No, not in a good way.
I just picture him with like paint on his face and I know is that not the eyes?
You're exactly crazy eyes.
That's exactly what I picture.
Oh my god.
This man in what world is that a normal reaction and also like you were going to attack this
person?
I'm just gonna shoot him with my bow.
Like what is this was just a coworker that like gave her a ride or walked her up to her
door.
I just asked questions later.
Wow.
Mark the white man model.
The white man model.
I mean, yeah.
Okay.
Should we do some Taro?
Yeah, let's do Taro.
Let's see what comes up.
Okay.
For Mr. Wayney Wayne here.
Hey, I want to know something funny.
His initials are waff.
Waff.
What in the actual wolf?
Wow.
As indie podcasters, we love to show our support of other awesome shows.
So stay tuned for the promo we've got to share with you this week.
Let's show them some love.
You can find their info in our show notes.
What do you get when you mix someone who loves true crime and horror movies with someone
who's afraid of their own shadow?
Someone like you?
Yeah.
How do you ask?
You get the perfect podcast.
We're Carmen and Joanna of Live Laugh Murder Podcast.
We're not your typical true crime show.
Here at Live Laugh Murder, we tell stories that might be true crime or they might be the
plot of a horror film.
Can you tell the difference?
Don't worry though, because all is revealed by the end.
We are true crime sometimes.
So check us out.
We release bi-weekly on Saturdays.
And remember to live laugh, but never what Joanna.
Order.
Never murder.
Thanks guys.
Thanks.
You guys were back.
And don't worry, we did get more wine.
Well, of course.
All right.
We're back from our delicious snack break.
You always have to take a break.
Did you drop one?
Oh, okay.
Was it like that or was it right?
No, I think it was in the reverse.
Okay, interesting.
It was the two of ones.
Yeah, we'll stop that one aside.
Okay.
I think.
Oh, we got eight of cups.
Okay.
It's like a shiny lizard gecko thing.
Wow.
Yeah, we'll have to look at the little book maybe to see.
What kind of little lizard?
Okay.
Eight of cups, our keywords are turning away, cutting losses, decline, dejection and seriousness.
Walk away.
Also run.
Yeah.
Also run.
Because you said that in the episode, you're like run away.
Take Kelly Kelly.
Kelly.
Yeah.
Usain.
This card often pictures a person with his or her back to us walking away.
I just like thought of the parents too.
Wow.
Sometimes a waning moon overhead symbolizes decrease.
When the eight of cups appears, a situation has become untenable and you have decided to turn
your back on it.
Now you must strike out in another direction.
Wow.
Okay.
There was a lot of that in the story.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
The upright interpretation says, you wish things had turned out differently, but you can't
salvage a matter and you realize you must abandon it.
It's time to let go and get out of the situation that has failed despite your best
efforts.
Oh, your best efforts.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
Let's move ahead with determination.
Find a new direction and learn from your experience.
Oh, boy.
Okay.
Well, yeah.
This is giving me chills because obviously I know what happens in part two, but in a reading
about money and investment hasn't paid off or you've lost money through no fault of your
own except perhaps not seeing things accurately.
Cut your losses and conserve your resources.
If the reading is about your job, the aid of cups may recommend pouring your heart and
soul into an endeavor.
Don't let distractions throw you off course.
Sometimes this card advises leaving a job that no longer interests you.
In a reading about love, this card can mean ending a relationship that's lost its spark.
Oh, boy.
Conversely, it may show you getting serious about a partnership, giving it your all, all
of your camo gear.
You're no longer interested in casual flings and there is an extra excerpt.
When you most feel like holding on to something, it is usually the best time to let go.
Holy wow.
That was good.
I can't believe you picked this walk away sign too.
It's like blowing my mind.
Okay.
Should I read this little one while you're looking for the other person?
Yeah.
Okay.
So it's the Northern alligator lizard, by the way.
Oh.
And all of the keywords are about the same, but there's this little story here.
Read the alligator lizard shed her past self like a ghost behind her.
That skin had to serve her well.
It gotten her through plenty of scrapes and taken quite a few in the process.
It had camo flushed her.
Okay.
It had camo flushed her against the forest floor protecting her from sharp eyed hawks.
She had insulated her as she bashed on the sun, dappled stones, but now it felt tight.
It felt restrictive.
She itched to be rid of it.
She had outgrown it and so she stepped out of it, cast it aside.
It no longer served her.
She moved on more vulnerable to the thorns and needles around her, but no longer constrained
by who she used to be.
Okay.
All right.
That camo flushed thing made me poop my pants a little bit.
A little bit, a little bit.
Okay.
Right.
So two of ones are keywords are developing goals, involvement in a creative project, taking
action and choices.
This card shows you taking action to accomplish something you feel passionately about, a creative
project, a business or an adventure.
You may have to make a choice between two options or bring two factors together to achieve
success.
When the two of ones is reversed, it can indicate a delay or difficulty.
You may be in for a surprise that requires you to make changes.
Perhaps someone you relied on or believed in disappoints you.
Oh, it's kind of like the same vibe a little bit.
A little bit.
If you asked about money, this card may mean financing for a project gets delayed or an
investment doesn't produce a return you'd hoped for.
Use caution in financial partnerships or contracts.
In a reading about work, the reversed two can mean you'll have to work harder than you'd
expected to bring your dream to fruition.
Sometimes it indicates you've gotten off track and need to take action to control a
situation.
You may have to reign in a colleague or contractor or another person may not hold up his or
her end.
In a reading about love, this card advises being upfront and honest with your partner.
There was so much of that in the story, like so much honesty with your partner.
Yeah.
If the relationship is rocky, you may have to make adjustments, especially if you've
been too dependent or detached in the past.
Yeah.
Oh, boy.
Well, that was the card that jumped out in the beginning when you were shuffling.
Yeah.
It was just like, hey, I'd go with the other one.
Yeah.
That one said, there will be some more of these elements in part two.
Oh, it's two.
Yeah.
Oh, boy.
That is a red-tailed hawk on the card, by the way.
Oh, it's a bird of prey.
What's this one talking about?
Like hawks?
I think it is.
Something about, yeah, we should go back.
Now I'm curious.
Yeah, protecting her from sharp-eyed hawks.
That is so weird.
Are you guys surprised?
Wow.
Okay.
Well, we're pretty cool.
Okay.
I'm like little bit.
Oh, my gosh.
I was thinking this the other day.
So you know how we always would say, like, oh, we're not professional readers or anything
yet.
We're just learning.
I feel like we've leveled up to maybe inner media.
Intermediate?
Okay.
Terror?
I'll take that.
I think we have, because we've done so many readings now for people at the festivals
and stuff.
Yeah, that's true.
We always just kind of say, along with the interpretation, whatever comes to our minds,
that is terror reading.
It really is.
Yeah.
We're doing it.
We're almost professionals.
If you loved listening to that terror reading and want to see it because obviously, duh,
we're cute.
Yeah.
Become a member of our Patreon, where a video of every terror read is uploaded with the
ad-free version of the episode each week, which is going to start feeling more significant.
Very soon.
Those videos typically have a lot of extras in them as well that we cut out of the regular
episode.
So you get to feel like you're behind the scenes a little bit.
Lowell that.
Patreon for those of you that maybe are wondering what the hell is that?
Exactly.
Please.
It's a monthly subscription with a range of price points and benefits.
Every member gets a personalized welcome card, a shout out in an upcoming episode and
exclusive bonus episodes and a lot of other things, some of which we don't even know about
yet.
A lot of other things like a mini terror reading in your welcome card.
And if you want a special shout out, if you want us to say something different other than
your name or something, you'll have to message us directly on Patreon and let us know.
Do it.
If you can't support us monetarily, no worries because the easiest ways to support are absolutely
free.
Tell everyone and anyone you come into contact with about us.
Tell your dog walker about us because they need a podcast to listen to while they're
walking your dog.
Or your barista.
Yeah.
Or bartender.
Or you can leave us a five star review on any platform where you're listening to us.
If you're not listening to us on Apple, that's fine, but go there and leave us one there
too because that's the big one.
That's the big boy.
Just sprinkle those stars all around town.
You know what I mean?
Yes.
If you...
If you have any true crime paranormal or witchy stories to submit for a listener appreciation
episodes called the creepy people chronicles, please email us at pnwhauntsandhomicides@gmail.com
or you can also use...
We have a handy, dandy little Google contact form you can fill out and tell us your story.
And a link to that would be in the episode description.
You're always welcome to remain anonymous if you write in with a story and remember your
stories do not have to be coming from the Pacific Northwest specifically if you want to share.
If there is a story from somewhere in Europe or Asia or Africa, just naming the continents
now.
Or Russia?
I'm kidding because way back in the day I was confused about Russia and Asia, okay?
Follow us on all of the socials if you don't want to miss out on photos of our tarot cards
or beautiful alter setups which today there is a lot of fire next to me.
There is a lot of pyro techniques.
Yes.
Katelyn went a little crazy.
And she also put all the fire on her side now and it had to convince her to put one little
candle on my side.
No, I just thought was how I arranged it.
It wasn't to keep the fire away from you.
It all looks like it.
I would think you would thank me, but whatever dude.
And a lot of backstage shenanigans like arguing over fire.
You can find our website or our link tree in the description of this episode to check out
all of the fun that we have to offer.
And if you get confused and you go to the link tree when you really wanted the website,
you can still go to the website directly from the link tree.
There are so many links on the link tree.
There is links to the links.
Have a creepy last day.
See you next Tuesday.
Part two, Tuesday.
Do do do.
[J Especially to the audience.
That's it!]
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Use our Ambassador link and coupon code, PNW, Haunts and Homicides, to receive 10% off
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Like our social media handles, the coupon code is all spelled out no special characters.
You can find the link and promo code in our show notes or PNW, Haunts and Homicides link
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Have a safe stay!
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