Law enforcement was having a startling realization of their own as well.
They had come to the conclusion that Hollywood would not go down without a fight.
Their assessment was correct, as if they'd known his precise thoughts.
Listen, no matter what, let your own hand be the hand of fate, and never let your enemy dictate your fate.
Scott said when hiking in the Olympics at the top of Mount Washington.
[Music]
Hi Cassie.
Hi Caitlyn.
Hi creepy people.
Hello.
Sorry my hand was stuck in my blankie here.
Oh, wrapped up nice and cozy.
So cozy and my blankie that Caitlyn made me.
I might it.
I love it.
And I matched the background.
Yeah, you're very, you're on the theme that currently is appearing.
Anywhosal, this is PNW Haunts and Homicides, where we chat about true crime, the paranormal, Cassie's blanket, you know, whatever strikes our fancy.
And where?
Where do we, where do we talk about these things?
I think PNW.
You should say the Pacific Northwest.
Pacific Northwest.
Or the PNW if you're nasty.
Oh my god, I'm saying this under duress, which also is very on theme for today.
So you're welcome.
We also do a tarot reading at the end of every episode or just a little deeper insight into our topic.
Yeah, so stick around.
If you're into that.
If you're into it.
Getting here.
Getting my cozy blankie.
Come snuggle, have a drink.
Just have a cuddle.
Have a cuddle.
A cuddle.
Cheers.
Ooh.
Snoop's bubbles taste amazing.
Yeah.
All right, I'm going to get right into it.
Okay.
Already.
I'm ready.
Seven minutes in.
Let's go.
Yeah.
That's fine.
Okay, listen, I had to open that explosive bottle.
Yeah, it won't be technically seven minutes as you guys are listening.
But.
Exactly.
Scott Scurlock was born March 5th, 1955 in Maryland.
He grew up with a loving family in Virginia and had one sister named Suzanne.
His mother was a teacher for special needs children and his father was a preacher.
Oh, wow.
Yeah.
So far.
My next sentence, which perhaps makes the trajectory of his adult life all the more surprising.
Before long, the kids he'd grown up with were headed off to college, including his friend, Kevin Myers.
Though Scott would follow Kevin to the island in 1974, he wasn't nearly as academically inclined
as his friend who moved there to attend the University of Hawaii.
Yeah.
Okay.
I was like, what island are you talking about?
The island who shall not be named.
Because I will never go there.
Oh, well, come on.
Volcanoes.
They were reportedly lived and worked on a tomato farm there until their secret marijuana
grow up was discovered.
Okay.
I feel like there's a lot of words in that sentence that don't feel quite right.
I don't think of tomatoes from Hawaii.
Yeah.
But I'm sure a lot of things are grown there.
But like they just need like a warm environment, right?
I, yeah.
Yeah.
Warm ish.
Yeah.
Yeah, they do thrive in kind of like the California climate, obviously in Italy.
Yeah.
We go tomatoes here.
I mean, it's not like, yeah.
Very seeds of summer.
Yeah.
I'm liking this marijuana farm though.
Yeah.
Real green.
Yeah.
By 1978, Scott was attending Evergreen College.
Along with another friend, Mark Biggins, the college community captures a smaller town feel
than you might find in say Seattle, though it's still characterized by an earthy progressive
vibe because it's like Auburn.
Oh, okay.
I was like, wait, is this evergreen in Hawaii or is this Washington?
He's back in Washington.
Yeah.
That whole thing with the, you know, living on the tomato farm, but growing a different plant,
I didn't really pan out that well.
I can't imagine why.
Yeah, I know.
Zar.
Suzanne Skirlach, his sister, described her brother Scott as an adrenaline junkie.
Given his body academic track record and previous entrepreneurial endeavor, it may come as a surprise
that at one point Scott aspired to become a doctor.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's aspirational.
Yes.
Lofty goes.
However, that ambition fell by the wayside when he began working in the chemistry lab.
Okay.
Oh, what's he learning to make?
He would go from being a single course away from finishing his undergrad in chemistry and
biology according to his sister to being unceremoniously banished from the campus.
This was following the discovery that he had been making meth in the college's lab.
That's the first thing I thought of when you said chemistry.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yep.
It's a real breaking bad moment.
Oh, that's so dangerous in the schools or not.
It wasn't a school.
Yeah.
In the school's lab.
The college's chemistry lab.
Holy shit.
Yes.
It is very dangerous.
He continued manufacturing meth and gradually gained a reputation for producing a remarkably
pure product that many said was unrivaled at the time.
So very reminiscent of what you're right.
I've only seen a few episodes, but that sounds just like it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Minus the cancer so far.
But you know, yes.
Exactly.
Eventually, he bought a property deep in the woods of Washington state near Olympia, where
he built a tree house as well as a barn where the cooking was done.
A literal tree house.
Yes.
A literal tree house.
That's so cool.
I will show you some pictures.
Okay.
I was just thinking the other day about how he wanted to live in a tree house.
Yeah.
Yep.
Maybe not his.
Yeah.
I just want to live in like a really nice tree house.
Yeah.
No, a really nice tree.
This was not a not.
It wasn't a bad tree house per se, but okay, I'm going to send you the pictures.
Oh, whoa.
Yeah.
Whoa.
Yeah.
He built this.
Yes.
That is crazy.
Yeah.
Okay.
We're going to talk some more about the tree house.
I mean, it looks a little shanky.
Shanky?
What?
Janky.
Looks a little shanky.
I mean.
Yeah.
But that's, I'll tell you more about it, then maybe save your official assessment for the
pod.
It just looks elaborate.
Yes.
Definitely.
And he did have a lot of help.
Okay.
Yeah.
The place was built around seven huge cedar trees, about 40 feet up with a gorgeous view of Mount
Rainier.
Seriously, the view, I mean, to die for.
Wow.
Absolutely incredible.
Mark, his friend, who he went to Evergreen College with, and his daughter came to live in the tree
house with Scott when Mark's marriage ended.
Obviously, this was far from a traditional dwelling.
Yeah.
When you see the pictures, you know, I inclined to think that you will agree.
Aside from the remarkable bird's eye view, the tree house also reportedly boasted an extra large
fireplace because, do I, that seems dangerous.
I'd listen.
Lots of houses are built from wood.
Yeah.
And around trees, but just like in a tree, I don't know something about that.
It feels a little bit weird.
Yeah.
An outdoor bathroom complete with a large bathtub, as well as an emergency escape zip line.
Wow.
Should it do it?
Yeah.
We thought of everything.
Really did.
Scott's Woodland Peter Pan lifestyle was in stark contrast to the norm of the era, for sure.
Early 1990s Seattle was an exciting place with lots of booming businesses.
Amazon, Microsoft, Starbucks, and the like had begun joining the ranks of warehouse and Boeing.
Ooh, we've heard of them.
Yeah.
Sure have.
Also, 90s Seattle.
French music.
It's a vibe.
Ooh, that's so funny, my next sentence.
The city also had a booming grunge slash punk rock scene.
Scott would meet with Captain Pat in the forested area up on his property.
Pat was referred to as the finance man to transfer money and product.
AKA, math in case anyone got lost.
Captain Pat the finance man.
Got it.
Scott would bring 180 pounds of product and his counterpart would hand off $2 million.
That's a lot.
It's a lot of a lot of things.
I don't know how much math weighs.
Like, it seems like it would be pretty heavy, right?
Well, I mean, either way, 180 pounds of it.
Yeah.
It's a lot.
And $2 million.
$2 million.
In the early 90s.
Pat had been the one to introduce Scott to Matt.
So, you know, nice guy.
Yeah.
Once the connections made, you know, business deals and whatnot.
After Pat took care of the pickup with Scott, he'd take it down to Barstow to sell it to the hell's angels.
They be method.
They be.
Oh, girl, they be met the real hard, especially in this era.
Your captain Pat was murdered in 1990.
Scott was devastated and decided that the meth business was just too dangerous for him.
Yeah, I thought you're a finance guy.
Yeah.
So, I mean, the 80s, early 90s.
Yeah.
I mean, still a very dangerous time for people in that line of work.
What a funk.
In the early 90s, Scott and Mark were in the same place.
And they were in the same place.
I didn't have a lot of notes for them.
Beyond the obvious, which is, you know, don't rob banks.
They changed their likeness and swapped vehicles,
which tends to at least confuse
or temporarily slow down an investigation.
So far, I mean,
How do we know it was a mask?
What if it was just Ronald Reagan?
I think at this point, Ronald Reagan,
I think he was spending a lot of time sundowning.
Again, not going to fact check on that front,
because I like my ridiculous questions.
Okay.
No, I love the question.
But trying to defend like the answer is like, so.
Yeah.
Would they like the people who started like the same owner drugs things?
Yes.
Yeah.
Sure.
Where?
That's funny.
Yeah.
Dare to say no to drugs.
Regarding this initial robbery,
two versions of how it played out emerged,
depending on who was telling the story.
One version said that Scott went in,
Mark followed.
Then when the latter man's nerves took over,
he clumsily shouted for everyone to get down,
which Scott quickly countered,
instructing everybody to stand up,
which is an actual nightmare,
because what the fuck do you do in that situation?
People just want to follow the instructions
and make it out relatively unscathed.
Yeah.
Just like, I don't care what I need to do.
Just don't kill me.
Yeah.
That's like a really fucked up version of Squid Game or something.
Oh my god.
Now, in an alternate version,
Mark remembered things differently,
believing that everyone had already been down on the ground
as he made his way, trailing after Scott.
And it doesn't really make a lot of sense,
because I don't know why people would already be down on the ground,
unless Scott went in that much further ahead of him.
Right.
Like, what are you loitering at the door?
I don't--
I feel like--
I feel like the first one.
Let's let that guy go in first, right?
A little bit.
What was I like?
Which--
I mean, the more we learn about Mark,
the more believable that does sort of seem.
But I don't think it makes sense.
Yeah.
It's believable, but it doesn't make sense.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm wrong.
The way you said it didn't really sound like it made sense.
But--
And doesn't it?
I'm not sure that I have a strong opinion,
one way or the other,
and also sometimes I lie when I'm writing my notes.
(laughs)
Regarding what we should consider the official story,
but I am about to have notes.
Scott called to Mark.
Mark.
Did you get the keys as they turned to leave?
Obviously, Mark is a pretty common name.
That detail is not going to make them readily identifiable,
but that was obviously a pretty careless mistake
to reveal his partner's real name.
Yeah.
What?
Kind of a bonehead move.
At any rate, they tore off into stolen vehicle,
which--
Okay, everybody in that bank is having like
not the coolest day,
but one guy is having a really rough fucking day.
He was just involved in a bank robbery
and then had his car stolen.
Damn, dude.
What a fucking sad thing.
That's sad.
I hope he's okay.
I know.
I'm sure he's okay.
These early ones,
I feel like,
yeah, there's more.
Oops.
They neared their intended meeting spot
only to find that Mark's friend wasn't waiting there.
The driver had panicked and gone to their plan B spot.
So Mark and Scott went galloping across a golf course to Scott's van.
So just dudes that look like they're basically dressed up for Halloween,
running across a golf course green.
Is it like the middle of the day?
I believe so.
Yeah.
So you assume like people are probably out there golfing?
I mean, I also think this was a weekday,
so it may not have been like super busy.
It was probably in the earlier part of the day.
Don't the only people that golf like retired old guys,
retired doctors, executives.
I assume it was just it was an interesting like,
yeah, the imagery is strong.
Yeah.
There had to be someone out there probably that like kind of spotted them
and sort of corroborated the story of them having done this, I feel like,
but I don't know.
Following the robbery, Mark said,
I'm never doing that again.
Good.
Scott had a slightly different response.
Are you sure?
Let's go do another one right now.
Right now?
Well, my dick is still hard.
Right?
Is this?
Mark left town for a while hiding out in Montana
for a time.
I'd be scared like I do.
Well, but I think he was just afraid that, you know,
right?
And to get like taught.
I just robbed a bank.
Yeah.
Rubbery, number one, netted them $19,971.
Oh, that's not too bad.
Yeah.
I mean, it's a lot more than a typical bank.
Rubber walks away with these days.
I will say.
It's not meth money, but no.
Maybe that ain't meth money.
It's probably got traces of meth on it,
meth or cocaine, likely feces as well.
Invigorated and inspired to continue to perfect his methods,
Scott was far from calling it quits despite Mark's departure.
I mean, he did have other friends, after all.
Scott's next co-conspirator was Steve Myers.
He was an artist who had sculpted and traveled internationally
that was quickly charmed by Scott when presented the idea of teaming up.
Just how does that conversation start?
I was thinking, how do you go about that?
How does one?
Yeah.
Steve would say that robbing banks was Scott,
was by far his more creative endeavor,
even when compared to what he'd done in the art world.
Okay.
I don't see how, but okay.
I think I'll explain.
It may not make sense to you, but you'll understand his reasoning.
Okay.
I don't know.
I'm all for creativity in life.
Yeah.
Steve took to monitoring the police scanners and local patrols,
logging the times related to their routes to plan their robberies.
Steve also brought high quality movie style prosthetics in to the operation,
which reminds me of step-rothers because of course it does.
Okay.
It's okay to not move the quality.
It's a very iconic look.
There's a lot of really iconic imagery that's associated with this case in general.
I mean, fuck the tree house.
God.
So weird.
Yeah.
It's, yeah.
The first robbery, Steve and Scott did together was the very same branch
that Scott and Mark had hit just six weeks prior.
I don't know if that's like really dumb or really smart.
Yeah.
They do a lot of stuff like that where you're like,
either that's really dumb or really smart.
And I'm going to need to wait until somebody smarter than me comes on the screen as the talking head.
It tells me.
Yeah.
Well, but yeah.
I mean, two things can be true.
Right.
The take for the second robbery was $8,124 and 50 cents.
Well, they just robbed all the money.
Yeah.
No.
Like, there wasn't any left.
Yeah.
And it wasn't much better for the third where they netted 9,613.
I don't know that there was as much awareness or systems in place at this point, but having
worked as a teller in the art.
I will tell you that they specifically structure and have protocols in place.
So that each teller only has a certain amount of cash in their drawers.
Right.
I mean, that makes sense.
Yeah.
So unless you're going, you know, and hitting like an armored vehicle or, you know, something where you have access to a lot more,
or if you go to a branch where it's like teller row and there's like 10, 12 tellers and you're, you know, taking them all.
Yeah.
It's not, it's not crazy to think that you're probably not going to walk away with that much.
Yeah.
Because like, I feel like you're not going to be breaking into the safe.
Like that takes a lot of time.
Sure.
Or you would need people to get the codes and things.
Do they do that later?
It's interesting because I specifically didn't mention the vault.
But I mean, I assume all the banks have vaults.
Yeah.
I mean, I think that would be like, pretty much every branch has a vault in some form or fashion, but maybe this is a weird thing to focus on based on the information I've just presented.
These guys just robbed two more banks after all.
But all I can think about is why and how in the actual fuck did they end up with change?
8,124 dollars and 50 cents.
And 50.
I'm like, but did they get like rolls of coins?
But like, where does the 50 cents?
Because those are all like even numbered right rolls.
Yeah.
No, quarters come in rolls that are a total value of $10 typically.
Maybe they drop some.
I don't know.
I'm just saying typically unless we're talking about an old timey robbery, I don't think anyone slows down to gather up change.
Yeah.
Maybe it was on the ground.
And they were just like, hey, 50 cents.
Cool.
I really don't think that.
It's upsetting to me because I was almost done writing up this case.
And I'd watched a documentary and read dozens of articles about this case already before I realized I was like, that says 50 cents.
50 cents.
And I tend to trust this like source material.
I'm sorry.
What were they taking money like from the people inside like telling them to empty their pockets or my knowledge.
Yeah.
Interesting.
And honestly, the when you look at the ROI just isn't there.
Obviously with coins, it's heavy and doesn't have the same value that like bills would.
Yeah.
Listen, we can we could stay right here and focus on this for arguably another hour.
We won't.
You're welcome.
I just like to think there was like 50 cents laying on the counter and they've just swiped it.
I just feel like like why would you even stop to do that?
I don't know.
You have to get in and out fat.
Like I said, we could be here for an hour.
The fact that the initial robberies weren't alarmingly large, allowed Scott and his cohorts to fly under the radar.
At least initially, it also motivated them to take things further by targeting the vault.
Ooh, that's bony peat.
That's when Mustang joined the team.
She became a teller at the seafirst bank to get them insider information about the bank protocols,
including the deliveries arriving from armored vehicles with cash.
Wow.
I know.
I'm like bad person, but I'm excited.
There's a woman involved.
I know.
Like bad men is that.
You know, seriously though.
Yeah.
We don't hear like, we don't hear that a lot.
I know.
I was kind of like, what?
Mustang.
Yeah.
Don't get emotionally attached to any of these people.
Oh, but Mustang.
I'm picturing her as Aubrey Plaza for some reason.
Oh.
Yeah.
I would say based on what I know, I sort of pictured across between Donna from that 70s show
and Aubrey Plaza.
Weird.
Kind of a weird, very, yeah, very dry, a dry heat as well.
As they continue to perfect their plans, they developed some scripting.
So everybody knows when you start to develop a script, that is when it is business.
It is real.
It is official.
There are serious.
Yes.
This is real.
This is a robbery.
This was typically followed up by asking who the vault teller was.
Ooh.
Yep.
Scott seemed to be truly gifted at handling the interactions within the bank.
While Steve would be outside monitoring the scanner and radio.
It's like a whole operation, dude.
Yeah.
Their first haul from within the vault, you'll did $252,000.
Okay, quite a bit more.
Yes.
Now bringing their total haul for six robberies to $322,870.
And 50 cents, of course.
50 cents.
Really fucking bugs me.
Fitty cent.
Why are you going to do this?
Fitty.
They progressed from teller drawers to armed takeovers.
And finally to vault takeovers.
Escalation.
Yes.
And it's finest.
It is escalation at something.
Something.
Yeah.
The FBI nicknamed him Hollywood, which was appropriate, not only because of his disguises,
reminiscent of movie makeup, actually literally like professional grade movie makeup stuff.
That's like, that's cool.
Like, not that any of this is cool, but like that piece of it.
It's like, oh, I see where the creativity piece of it comes in because that's where his artist friend, you know, really helped him out.
Also, because he apparently had been inspired by the character Brody from Point Break.
I don't know this.
And not, yeah.
I know of it, but it's mostly in connection to True Crime.
So, okay.
He and his nine millimeter would make the most wanted list.
So Point Break is, I mean, the long and the short of it, I thought I put more here in my notes about like kind of a brief summary of Point Break.
But I think I also have another movie that they compare a different aspect of the case to and I really had to kind of get down to the brass tax and so Point Break is basically like Patrick Swaisy as like a surfer dude slash bank robber.
Okay.
You've had me a Patrick Swaisy baby.
I, yeah, I knew it.
I knew it.
Yeah.
Let's watch it.
We should.
I'm down.
Sean Johnson was the lead special agent of the FBI on Hollywood's case.
His counterpoint from the Seattle PD Mike Megan was his exact opposite in nearly every way according to not only those working with the pair, but their own personal assessments.
Oh, oh, yeah.
So they're just raw deferred.
Okay.
From each other, as the crimes became more high profile, they came under increasing scrutiny, which forced Scott and his accomplices to think outside the box in order to stay ahead of the authorities.
Because all of a sudden they have somebody who's being referred to as the Hollywood band that's making the news.
Yeah.
You know, it's going to get you recognized pretty fast if you keep doing the same shit.
Oh, interesting, interesting.
Let you would say that.
Oh, sorry.
They wrote it.
No.
Oh, yeah.
Okay.
So they would intentionally leave a vehicle behind for the cops to find, which seems counterintuitive.
Yeah.
But they hired someone that looked nothing like, I mean, totally dissimilar to anyone involved in the crimes.
To buy a car and hand it off to someone on the robbery team.
For that person, it was easy money for doing something that might have seemed odd, but certainly not enough to raise much of a red flag.
In an effort to distort forensic evidence and whatever profile the police may have begun to form, they did a number of things to these cheap vehicles.
They picked that right.
Oh, it's like the day.
In the weirdest way possible.
They used mineral spirits to clean the vehicles down.
And then in polar opposition, because remember, they just cleaned the vehicles.
They would plant email hair in other parts of the car, essentially just trying to make it as difficult as possible to figure out what the hell was going on.
Is Hollywood a woman who drives a beater, but keeps it meticulously clean, saved for the same things we all leave behind unwittingly, which is our her.
I think it's his hair.
I don't know.
And that.
Okay.
So I do.
And I don't.
So they talked about a couple of things where they were like, oh, yeah, they would just get hair from like a random like friend or something.
Or.
And I'm like, but what if they were able to identify it as being her hair?
Like, and you just drew suspicion to her.
Listen.
And so they could just be able to identify what the DNA stuff that good back then.
Yeah.
So they could just like tell if it was like a killer female.
I don't even know if they can tell if they can tell.
For sure that it's male or female.
See that it's long.
And they're like, it's a girl.
It's long.
These are girls.
I don't know why I said it like that.
But or like one of those crazy dogs that are in like all of the sporting shows and they have like the crazy long.
Yeah, I forget what those are called.
Any who's.
I don't know.
I don't know how effective this particular strategy was, but they did a number of other things to obfuscate other aspects of evidence in their crimes.
Because if that if they stopped there, I'd be like.
Weird choice.
That's not one of them where I'm like, is that really dumb or really smart?
Yeah.
That one just seems like.
Yeah.
Like that seems like somebody who watches too much TV.
Trying to think that they're smart.
Yeah.
And it seems like a really like movie like yeah, like it kind of trophy.
Yeah, it can't be.
Interesting.
When there were multiple routes or routes leading to certain bank branches, they would hire lookouts who would simply radio.
Mama's coming.
Give the robbery team a heads up.
Mama's coming.
Oh my god.
That's funny.
I don't know why it just really gets me.
Mama's got like why it's got my funny mom.
This seems like a pretty obvious yet effective broach.
Obviously like if you can have somebody tip you off, that's that's good.
Right.
For crimes.
They would repeatedly rob the same banks specifically to throw off the authorities because who would suspect you'd return to the bank.
You'd return to the scene of the crime in this case.
Yeah.
I mean, I like kind of well, and here's the thing.
I thought about it from the perspective of how the training kind of is for tellers.
So I'm sure the bank employees thought much the same.
Like which sort of bolsters statements made by some of them about how traumatized they were.
Because you're trained that like it's very unlikely that a bank is going to like repeatedly be hit there.
Obviously there are certain geographic demographic areas where yeah, maybe that bank gets hit more than the average, but you don't.
This is not the norm.
It would just be so like what's that word?
Like you were just throw you off because you're like, oh, we were just robbed like, oh, like this is just a normal day a couple days later.
Like nothing's going to happen because it just happened.
It would just be so like off putting her.
Yeah, I know I'm like now I'm trying to think of.
There's a word.
It well, I mean, it would it would really, I mean off like it would just make you feel off.
Like you would.
It's almost like being gaslit.
Yeah, kind of like that.
I can think of the word that I want.
Yeah.
But like you're thinking like discombobulating.
Yeah.
But that's like a weird word, but.
But I mean, I feel like that kind of fits.
Yeah.
I mean, shit.
We can we can Google some synonyms later.
Everyone comment with a synonym for discombobulated.
Oh my god.
Disorienting.
I think that's what I think.
Disorienting.
Yeah.
The team would scan the bills from each take with ultraviolet lights to identify any money that might be marked to further avoid detection.
Ooh, okay, that's smart.
Smart.
Yeah.
They also scattered any bills with sequential serial numbers.
Something that occurs more frequently with brand new bills as one might encounter at a financial institution, particularly in a bustling city like Seattle.
That makes a lot of sense to sure do we're thinking of a lot of things they are.
Yeah.
They would bury their gear in military canisters on Scott's property until they were ready to carry out the next robbery.
Their clothes would then be burned in a nearby burn pit on the property as well.
Oh, I don't know.
It's not like that's a lot.
That's a fair few hoops.
Also, like maybe this is just because I'm a girl and am I I typically wear clothes that I like like oh no, I have to burn it.
Well, hopefully they're buying clothes they don't really like it and that they would never wear so that's even more like a I know.
Now I'm starting to think like them right.
Yeah, I was like oh, I guess that makes sense.
I'm going to rob this in a fur coat because I never actually wear that.
Never wear this.
Unfortunately, no, I have to rob the bank because I bought a fur coat.
Hey man, you got to spend money to make money.
Once that checklist was complete, there was still one final and crucial step left.
Anyone with ill gotten gains in the form of large stacks of cash can attest to the importance as well as the difficulty associated with making said unseem somehow legitimate.
It's like a full-time job.
Yeah, are they hiring?
The next step was laundering.
So it was off to Vegas.
Scott took the games of chance to aid in the money laundering, specifically of the sporting variety.
Okay.
He plays equal bets on two teams at different casinos.
So if it's the Dallas Cowboys versus
another sports team, the Packers.
I should have written this down.
Chiefs, because Taylor Swift.
The only one I know.
Right.
So you place a bet on both teams that are playing the same game.
They figured out that this way they'd get back all their money except the five percent the house takes.
Small price to pay for liquid funds.
Like paying taxes.
Like what?
Just like that.
Yeah, just like that.
Yeah, because when you win and you have a ton of money on the winning team, you win really big.
Right.
And it evens out the loss.
That is.
I don't know if it still works that way.
I don't know if you.
I think that the major thing is they've made it really difficult for somebody to basically do this.
They made it really difficult for you to basically bet on both sides.
Right.
I feel like they've they've by now figured out people's.
Yeah.
Like it would admit it.
They probably like take your ID and all that.
Yeah.
They're like, that's not taxes.
Meanwhile, the investigation continued under the watchful eye of the public.
David Curley of HiRot TV said it was a stunning sight when Sean Johnson of the FBI took to the local streets with flyers talking to anyone that might know something.
He said it was a clear signal that law enforcement was desperate for leads.
He said it was a clear signal that they had no clue.
I mean, it makes sense because they went to pretty great pains to, you know, to make sure that law enforcement had no clue.
I mean, they were doing everything they could to cover their tracks.
Around the same time, those clues to Scott said, though, he never really outwardly acknowledged it.
He seemed to enjoy the media attention for the mysteries swirling around his many exploits.
I mean, if you're working that hard to keep it a mystery, then probably.
Yeah.
Sean stated he wanted Hollywood to see him.
I know he was looking for him, which sounds like a little bit of a public dick measuring contest via the media, but to each the own, I suppose.
For a time, reportedly, the authorities considered the idea that Hollywood may have been law enforcement himself.
Oh, shit. The plot thickens.
Spoiler alert.
He is not.
Not a spoiler.
Very though.
Yeah. I think so.
I mean, I think it's sort of a testament to some of the things that initially they did well.
It feels weird to say.
Yeah.
But which sort of makes sense as a theory based on the sheer number of robberies with seemingly relatives, they just they they can't pull it them off.
Because we've only technically talked about a couple, but there are a few.
For a time, still unfazed by the manhunt and investigation, pursuing him, Scott traveled quite a bit and donated significantly to environmental groups.
Some had begun to identify the Hollywood bandit as a Robin Hood type folk hero figure.
Of course.
Though Steve disagrees with the Robin Hood characterization stating that if you look at Robin Hood, it was idealistic.
He stole from the rich and gave, you know, all of that nonsense.
And Scott wasn't like that.
He helped people that he knew if he needed something in the future to be done, he could call on them and they would do it.
Oh, so kind of like a little more transactional.
Eventually, as their prolific crimes became more widely known, Scott's get up was recognizable enough that a customer called the authorities as he was entering a bank.
Oh, spaghetti.
Yeah.
Steve had to call him out of the bank when he heard the alert as he was monitoring the police scanner.
That robbery was called off and they hit a snag with the next robbery as well.
As Scott got into his getaway car, a die pack exploded in the cash bag.
So yeah.
So he was forced to toss it and take off.
Oh, yeah.
All that work.
I know.
Yeah, all that work.
Despite occasional setbacks and hiccups, the team was always trying to do what the authorities would never expect.
So in that regard, I do think it's like they did a lot of things that were sort of counterintuitive and it it it did throw them off.
On January 27, 1995 at the C first Madison Park Bank, they did just that.
This branch was a challenging target as they need to flee down Madison Street, which would put them headed precisely in the direction of police.
Who would no doubt be in hot pursuit of that?
Okay.
Why would they do that?
Good question.
Or how?
It was that or they'd have to go all the way around the area of lake.
Okay.
But not a small detour.
Okay.
Steve suggested a third option.
I think this is where that creativity comes in.
Go through the lake.
Gotta make it to the drive.
Yeah.
You're a big a police.
Oh my god.
Yeah.
I mean, hey, listen, they already have the zip line thing at the.
Mist opportunity.
Yeah. Well, not exactly following the robbery.
The plan was to get into the van while Steve waited out the heat at a local restaurant.
Once police presence had dispersed, he would signal that the coast was clear.
So you're just going to hide out in a van.
And I'm sure it'll be fine.
Yeah.
Is it like an unmarked van with no windows?
It looks really safe.
Actually so much better than that.
I mean,
it wasn't perfect because I am going to point out something that could have easily gotten them caught.
But they retrofitted the van so that someone could get down inside under the floor
to avoid detection even if authorities flashlights in through the windows.
Wow.
Okay.
Yes.
However, if anyone had been paying particular attention to that vehicle,
they would have seen condensation building up on the windows from the hidden man's breathing.
Okay.
Luckily for them, no one noticed.
Probably because they were out trying to find a bank robber.
And they were not paying attention to parked cars.
Yeah.
Condons.
So they just never left the area.
Wow.
Like hiding in plain sight.
Yes, exactly.
I mean, it's kind of, I hate to say it.
So it's kind of brilliant.
Yeah.
Is it dumb or is it smart?
Yeah.
It can be bold.
I mean, they didn't think about the condensation.
I don't think that's like,
I feel like probably most people wouldn't have thought of that.
I don't know.
I had to get condensation in my car, you know,
or you can't, if it leaks and stuff,
it doesn't necessarily have to be from someone breathing.
I think it would have been significant, like as if you were like, you know,
doing the nice thing.
Hey, stop breathing under there.
Yeah.
Oh, man, if they had done an oxygen tank, I wonder if that would have worked.
I'm totally just like picturing Leo's hand in Titanic right now.
Yeah.
Kind of.
Yeah.
I'm glad you sold for a second, because I would have been thinking about that
when you were starting to talk.
And I don't know if I would have heard you.
No, you wouldn't know.
Time has proven that FBI was fearful that he would become violent,
especially as he began accessing the vault.
Because the stakes are significantly higher.
When the vault teller wasn't present at one robbery, he said,
"It's Christmas time.
I don't want to kill anybody."
Before he used a stun gun on one employee.
Oh.
And honestly, that's the most violent thing that I'm aware of,
that happened through the course of any of the robberies.
Okay.
And that would be really scary, especially in light of specifically what he just said there.
Yeah.
And somehow we're still a little bit on Christmas.
But how do we do that?
I mean, it was totally unintentional.
And it's just like a quote that came up, nothing else that I can think of really
relates to Christmas.
But I'm wearing my Christmas present.
And it's Christmas.
It is Christmas until July.
Yeah.
The people that were present in these banks were traumatized.
Yeah.
Susan Dodd stated in the documentary that she was present for a total
of 14 bank robberies up to the point that they filmed the documentary in her career.
Wow.
One of which was the Hollywood bank robber.
She said he had a very commanding presence that was very unusual.
She wouldn't be the only one to note just how intimidating Hollywood could be.
Friends reported that Scott started to get stressed.
It changed him and the vibe around the beloved tree house.
Steve moved into a front house on the property.
And essentially he lived there serving as a sort of gatekeeper.
After all, the tree house had drawn admirers on occasion.
I can't imagine why.
Yeah.
I mean, it's pretty like the house itself is a site to behold.
And then to be up in the tree house and like the view and to see some of the, you know, the details that are included in it.
Yeah.
I mean, of course, people are going to be, if they hear about it, they're going to be interested.
Yeah.
So it doesn't, I mean, that part doesn't surprise me.
However, they could no longer risk having too many eyes on the property.
Can't have crying eyes.
No.
Scott's sister, Suzanne, shared a troubling conversation about the state of his mental health at the time.
And that he was clearly drinking a lot.
She couldn't quite work out what had Scott so on edge of late.
And though she was concerned, there was little that she felt could be done.
Which I feel like is unfortunately too often the case when somebody doesn't have just like an extremely severe episode.
And when you're an adult, there's little that oftentimes your family can do.
Even if they are worried about what's going on with you.
But they're going to do an intervention.
I mean, lead special agent Sean Johnson of the FBI had spent innumerable hours working the case with many others.
He had tried to analyze every piece of evidence and data that was available to get ahead of Hollywood.
Based on his calculations, he believed that Hollywood was going through $21,000 a month.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
He was then able to predict that Hollywood would hit again on one of three days in the new year.
Holy shit.
Shelton Cooper who?
It was the third of the three days that Sean had pinpointed.
Meanwhile, the robbery team drew his previous cohort, Mark, would fled to Montana back into this game.
On January 25th, 1996, the first interstate wedge wood was to be their test run after taking almost a year off from the bank robberies.
And of course, like I said, that also coincided with Mark's return.
How they got him to come back?
We'll never know.
At the time, Sean was about a mile down the road from that very branch.
Oh, Hollywood was good, but then so was Sean.
While Scott was increasingly erratic in a number of ways, Sean had leaned into analysis that would continue to bring him closer to the infamous bandit.
And so, the first time that he was able to predict the end of the year, was the first time that he was able to predict the end of the year.
Find my iPhone for money.
It's a small GPS tracker that can be inserted in between bills, not exactly anti theft per se, because until someone's left with the cash and toe, there's nothing to track.
But post theft also, that doesn't really seem like a thing.
So anyways, it's a tracker.
That's interesting.
Anyway, the devices were making their way to financial institutions to were placed in as many of the bank branches in the Seattle metro area as could be managed.
They were pushing them out everywhere.
At the time, the robbery team had just watched the movie "Heat" and it "put the fear of God in them."
Apparently didn't stop them.
No.
I don't think I've actually watched it.
I've seen short clips from it, so I gave it a goog.
Suffice to say, in the commission of the Heist depicted, not everyone has a happy ending.
It's a crime thriller that ends in a hail of bullets.
The law enforcement was having a startling realization of their own as well.
They had come to the conclusion that Hollywood would not go down without a fight.
Their assessment was correct, as if they'd known his precise thoughts.
Listen, no matter what, let your own hand be the hand of fate, and never let your enemy dictate your fate.
Scott said when hiking in the Olympics at the top of Mount Washington.
Damn, that's intense.
Like, all that whole thing was intense.
Hiking the quote.
Yeah.
Some, perhaps, believing they could see the writing on the wall,
began to distance themselves from the robbery ring.
And some of them probably weren't even aware
that they were a robbery ring?
Yeah.
Because there were so many, like, little parts that people played.
Well, no, what I'm saying is, like, friends of their, like, mutual friends of theirs,
some of them probably didn't even know that that's what these guys were doing.
A lot of people that were close to them had no idea until after.
I see.
I was also thinking of, like, the people, like, the thousand dollars to, like, drop off the car.
Yeah.
Like, people who didn't even know that they were, like, helping.
No.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
One friend named Albany left for California.
And before he did, he tried to convince Steve to do the same, but to no avail.
Two weeks before Thanksgiving, the robbery crew became aware of the pronat tags.
However, at a bank on 125th Street, they knew there would be $5 to $7 million for the taking.
Ooh.
They did a test robbery to try to figure out how to handle the tracers.
Because, of course, they were consummate professionals.
Test robbery.
Holy shit, dude.
Yeah.
For the test, Scott went into a branch, but not in his typical Hollywood get up.
Because it was, like, it's a, right.
Like, why wouldn't you just totally switch it up?
Change it.
Something.
They found the tags have been put in between stacks of $20 bills.
The team was able to identify and discard the two tracers in relatively short order after this test robbery.
So they felt pretty confident.
I mean, doesn't everyone feel confident after pulling off a risky or complicated task?
Yeah.
Like, just a singular time, though.
I did it one time.
I mean, I would feel like, yeah, but maybe do a couple more tests.
Right.
I don't know.
Right.
That was kind of my way.
Yeah.
Like, oh, we did it once.
That's probably fine.
It's probably fine.
Like, they won't switch it up after us robbing it and finding it.
And then.
Or maybe we'll be handed a set of circumstances that won't be as easy as the first time.
Right.
Yeah.
On the one hand, they were confident they knew how to handle the new pro net tags.
But at the same time, Scott's paranoia and anxiety seemed to be reaching a fever pitch.
He began to form a plan to hit multiple banks in one last hurrah.
Ugh.
The plan went like this.
The first hit would be a small branch to divert the authorities just before hitting a second.
And then a third.
I feel like the whole third time's charm thing does not apply to bank robbery.
But according to Scott, it was quote, it was not only doable.
It was winnable.
I feel like you're going to tell us the opposite.
But OK.
I mean, maybe on November 27, 1996 Thanksgiving Eve, FBI agent Sean was convinced that it would be the day that they would catch Hollywood.
Anyone else he'd shared the theory with was simply waiting to see.
At the C first bank, Lake City branch, it was less than 20 minutes to closing,
but seeing as it was the evening before the holiday weekend,
commenced, there was still a number of customers in the bank.
As the team entered the branch, probably didn't realize that one of the tellers had recognized them,
and immediately activated a silent alarm.
The branch manager said that they had been specifically trained for how to handle this robbery team.
Ooh, he used the trap money in his drawer and then also set off a second alarm by opening the vault with the duress code.
That's so, like, we think the robbers are smart, but like, this is also really smart.
They've built in things to the system.
Yeah.
The call went out over the radio, which as we know, the team was monitoring routinely.
When he received this update, Scott directed the branch employee to help load up money as he's holding a gun on him.
They had been armed before, and I touched on it very briefly that these were in fact armed takeovers of the banks.
That's something that they instituted pretty early on, but there are not at least that I could find as many scenarios where there was like a direct feeling threat like this.
So, okay.
So it just feels like it's upping the Annie, you know.
As they made their way out, the police had not yet arrived, but they weren't far behind.
Despite being told to stay down on the floor, one customer had bullied followed after the crew as they had fled.
Wow.
And was then able to provide a description of the getaway vehicle to authorities.
It didn't afford law enforcement much of an advantage as the team quickly ditched it and swapped into another vehicle, a white van.
As they fled, the team was disposing of the tracking devices, knowing full well that authorities would be tracking them until they successfully disposed of them all.
Even when one was discovered and discarded on the road, law enforcement knew there was a second device still present and active.
Because of the second device, eventually law enforcement was able to catch up to them.
At which point they executed a felony stop.
According to law enforcement, the initial shot was fired, or they assert that he attempted to fire.
They identified Scott as the shooter, or would be shooter, who had now moved to the driver's seat at this point.
The van quickly came under fire.
Mark was hit, as was Steve, in the ensuing gunfire as they took off again.
Mark!
What?
I know he came back and this...
Finally, when the vehicle crashed and Scott took off on foot, he fled to the south without his injured friends.
I mean, it is kind of an every man for himself, but hopefully you're able to... I mean, not hopefully...
But you don't even know if you're thinking of the criminal like getting away.
You're hoping that you get away and hopefully with some of the loot, you know, the Seattle PD officer, Mike Megan,
who was then present decided to return to the van to attend to the assailants, still present in the van,
rather than continuing down the alley after the third in what he called the fatal funnel.
He likes that alliteration, Megan.
What's his name, Mark?
Mike Megan, fatal funnel.
And it might be pronounced "Megan."
I never heard anybody say his name in spelled "MAGN."
Mike Megan, fatal PD.
I mean, it sounds like a cop on the East Coast.
He sounds like, you know, he's a real Mick, you know?
Mark Begins was in and out of consciousness following the shootout.
Meanwhile, Scott remained at large in the area.
Sean was at Harborview Hospital trying to figure out who the third perpetrator was,
because they literally still did not know who Hollywood was.
After two hours of questioning there, it's revealed that Scott Skirtlock is Hollywood,
which I feel like there's a little bit of an ethical question sometimes about questioning a suspect
when they've been shot, right?
And are, you know, in need of medical attention, but I think obviously he's at the hospital
and he's being traded still feels a little potentially dubious to me,
but numerous calls were placed by people living in the area trying to provide leads to the authorities.
Finally, a call came in from someone who believed the third bank robber was in his camper on the back end of his property.
Officers were dispatched to investigate further.
They knocked on the camper door, but to no avail.
They released tear gas and a moment later, they heard a single gunshot.
Following the single gunshot, they returned fire into the camper allegedly firing 76 rounds into the camper.
Wow.
He was a little over the top.
I mean, I understand because they heard a gunshot.
They don't know if like they're being fired up, but that just seems like a lot.
Right. But if you heard a gunshot, nobody is seeing it.
It's the only gunshot.
No one is apparently hit to then fire 76 rounds.
And I get it. We are all humans.
And there's a certain amount of instinct that no matter what training you have,
that would be pretty difficult to overcome.
But I would argue just looking at those facts on paper, it doesn't look the best.
Because he could they even see him. He was like inside.
What if someone was in there? What if he had like a hostage or something in there?
Or just like in a question person.
Yeah.
Yeah. That's a good point.
Suddenly, an otherwise quiet North Seattle neighborhood found itself day loose with various law enforcement, including the SWAT team.
And the SWAT sister, Suzanne got a call from their aunt Helen, who was absolutely frantic after seeing updates on the news.
The standoff remained underway for hours up until the point that there had been no response from within the camper for two hours.
Took them two hours.
Yeah, after that initial shot and they fired 76 rounds in.
I feel like two hours, not a standoff at that point.
No, it sure. I mean, they might have thought it was, but it sure wasn't.
It quickly became clear that the shot that officers had heard on the scene was from a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Scott Skirlack was dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound at 41 years old.
From the documentary, Mike Megan Seattle PD said, reciting the lines misattributed to Mark Twain, rather than the infamous lawyer Clarence Dero, who actually said it, that he would.
I've never wished death upon a man, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure, which is I get it.
I get it.
Get it.
Same. Same girl. Same.
But it really annoyed me when I went to look this up.
And I was like, wait, is that a Mark Twain quote?
And I don't know why that jumped out at me.
But I was like, I feel like this is one of the ones that I've heard is frequently misquoted.
And sure as shit, I look it up.
And there were a ton of articles.
And talking about how it is, they're like, we don't know how this started happening, but it did.
And now it won't stop.
Interesting.
That is so like, I don't know.
I also don't know that this person deserved that.
Like he wasn't killing a bunch of people, you know?
He was laughing banks very well.
And I don't know that in our particular format and keeping sort of brevity in mind that we have sort of the right platform or resources to really illuminate the what I feel is the depth of some probably undiagnosed
mental health issues that Scott and probably other people involved in this were experiencing at the time.
And I think that's not to say that that is an excuse.
You know, that doesn't make it okay.
But at the same time, whether whether that was an element of it or not, I I struggle with thinking this person deserves to die.
Yeah.
And in that way.
And he didn't just say that he said he got pleasure from reading the obituary.
Right.
Yeah.
I mean, it was quite but I do think that is where it kind of got it.
It's like I'm not gonna get it.
Yeah, it does feel a little bit.
And that is so totally something that I would put on a fucking coffee mug that I would drink out of every single day.
And I didn't like it that much in this context.
Yeah.
And I think that was Sean stated his biggest regret was that he was never able to sit down with Scott based a face.
He said, if I had been in the vehicle that night in front of that pursuit line, would I have done what Mike did shooting to the back of the van?
No.
There's always another day to catch him.
Seriously, there's always another day.
Wow.
And that's coming from an FBI agent.
Yes.
Who predicted within a set, like three day period when he was going to be striking again and was accurate.
Yeah.
The other piece of it is, you have to keep in mind this was a residential neighborhood.
Holy shit.
This is a residential neighborhood where they shot into the back of the van as they were trying to execute this felony stop.
So then as he is fleeing, he's fleeing into people's backyards.
Shit.
And this is a man that has said he's not going to be taken alive in so many words.
So they all knew that.
Like that was something that the cops knew or I don't know that I mean that was not something that he had said to them.
Well, you know, but I think they were getting a pretty clear indication.
And they were concerned that he would become violent.
And I think knowing what they did know about him, backing him into a corner where they were perhaps not the best prepared.
I hate to say ill prepared, but there were a lot of variables still that they couldn't control.
So you back an injured animal into a corner and there are only so many potential outcomes.
This is the part that makes me like actually want to cry because I can picture his father, a former pastor.
They show him walking around Scott's property and the tree house and Suzanne talks about their experience as the family.
Suzanne described their family's heartbreak, a sentiment echoed by Scott's childhood friend Steve Harper.
It's really hard to see in this case where there's such a dramatic impact on this person's family and like the loss of the shock.
All of that that they experienced because as much as you know he was described as being kind of a troublemaker and obviously he had been in trouble.
You know, his sister described him as an adrenaline junkie. I just don't think they in a million years.
I don't think they saw any piece of this coming.
Mustang visited Steve several times while he was in prison until one day he received a letter from her sister saying that she had died by suicide.
Oh wow. My understanding is that there were some things that were shared just I mean this is third party sort of statements that you know it really messed her up.
Really messed her up to see what had happened to these guys and to see like all of the damage that this caused in so many lives.
I mean the people that were present for the robberies, people who perpetrated them their families, this it's got tentacles.
Yeah. And she wasn't even involved at the end there right or was she.
I mean she had been working with them for some time. I think she I don't know at what point you know her being able to tip them off to things ended.
I guess you might not know if she wasn't like caught.
My understanding is that I mean she was an informant to them damn near until the end.
Wow.
Because I think that's how they learned of the pro net tax.
Oh, that would make sense.
Oh man.
As shocked as his family was to learn of his crimes as they grieved his passing.
Many felt it was a sad though not entirely unexpected ending.
Mark Biggins said that in discussions about what they do if they were to get caught Scott said I'm not going to prison.
I'm going to head for the white light.
Mark did however express regret about the trauma that was experienced by those present for the bang robberies.
Steve Myers and Mark Biggins each faced state and federal charges.
In 1997 both Steve Myers and Mark Biggins were sentenced to 21 years and three months in prison.
No other accomplices were charged.
Myers was released in 2013 and Biggins in 2015.
Within a year of Scott's death the treehouse had crumbled and tumbled down from the trees.
Oh, how?
I was just falling to disrepair.
Is my understanding that's only like a couple of years you said within a year within a year of Scott's death.
It's like what I'm wanting to focus on this because it's less sad.
I think.
But I'm just like were they just constantly repairing it or what would it have fallen apart with them like living in it?
I'm just wondering about that.
It's a valid question. I do think it was probably just you know the inattention to it when Mark was released.
He returned to the property where he scattered some of Scott's ashes.
A lawsuit was filed against Scott's estate by a group of law enforcement officers in 1997 for damages that occurred related to his crimes and capture within the next couple of years.
The family had sold the tree house property to pay off Scott's outstanding debts.
Restitution to the FBI as well as those related to the lawsuit.
I don't know how to feel about that.
Yeah, it's I want to say it's a tough one, but I don't think it is.
Actually, I think that if it's going to be really difficult for the public to go after law enforcement in any official legal capacity, they shouldn't be able to go after people's private estates.
Right.
I don't doubt that they deserve to receive recompens, but I don't know that it should come at.
I don't want to say expense because I'm sure they intended to sell that property.
I doubt that any of his family could have dared to be there on the property, but I don't think that it should have to come to that.
Yeah, because his living descendants did nothing wrong.
I kind of think that's a little bit of a fucked loophole in our system because sure is shit.
If you want to try to sue a cop for anything, like the wrongful execution of a loved one or anything else, it ain't easy.
It's a protection that is written into their role.
And in some degree, maybe that's a necessity, but this feels, this doesn't, this feels icky.
This doesn't feel very right.
It feels icky again.
Yeah.
And I think unfortunately, some of this is just going to feel icky because icky things happened and there's no way for a situation like this to be resolved without there being hurt.
Being hurt feelings and just, you know, the general ick, if you will, but I struggle.
I struggle with that in particular.
Yeah.
That doesn't feel right.
Between 1992 and 1996, the Hollywood Bandit and his associates robbed 19 confirmed banks stealing over.
Are you ready for this?
I am ready.
$2.3 million in 50 cents.
My next live literally says, but let's not forget about the change.
I grew up in.
No, I was like, okay, that'll be something that most everybody's going to have forgotten.
I almost didn't put that in because I was like, people are going to like not remember that I never forget.
I don't know.
It's tough because I don't think anybody wants to sympathize too much with the bad guys, but I think there are some things like his family.
They're not the bad guys.
I mean, if this was like, you know, generational family conspiracy, maybe I would feel a little bit different, like, situationally, but that is not this.
Yeah.
And he was, I mean, obviously, if you're saying, if you're living your life in a way where your out is dying by suicide.
Head for the white light.
Like that, that's just obviously there's some sort of mental crisis going on in there.
That's how you're living your life and that's like your plan.
Yeah.
So they actually read a number of excerpts from his, I would say they seem to be pretty extensive, pretty detailed journals.
And there were enough people that knew him at the time that shared whether it's things that he said or things that he did that I feel like inform regarding his mental state at that point in time.
And I do think it would be hard to argue that there's not something there.
It's a tough thing because for me, I sort of want to walk the line of addressing that, but, you know, also steering clear because, you know, I'm not qualified to diagnose that.
And I have my own, you know, suspicions and, you know, things that I kind of have taken away from the case and what I believe, but I don't want to put things out there that I don't feel like I can state with confidence and backup with.
Right, you know, facts, but yeah, that that's the long and the short of it for me is that even if you know nothing about the case, if you read some of those journal entries or you heard some of the statements that he made to other people at the time, just with no context.
I think probably you would think, yeah, this is this there's a mental health issue here. There's an undiagnosed disorder or disease.
And I think even in the 90s, things had come, you know, a long way, perhaps, but I'm not sure that the resources that he might have needed would have been available.
I can't imagine. Yeah, not like they are today anyway. For sure. Yeah. And they still suck. Yeah, and they're still not great.
They're still shit to be honest, but, you know, keep working on it. I'm really curious about what we're going to what we're going to get here with the tarot.
Yeah, me too. Yeah. Should we head to it?
I think so. Oh! What? I'm going to put that one aside. Did you pull a card already? No, I pulled up the deck. And it was the one on the bottom. And when I went to grab all of them, I just scoop them. And that one.
I was like, Oh, and this one. Oh, so almost they've been interesting. Yeah. Okay.
I'm sure I'm like right from the middle. I like it. And it looks like he's working out. What's the cat? Temperance. Oh, temperance. Okay.
It's a turtle. I like turtles. It's 14. Wait a second. Hold on.
What? Dude. Okay. Hold on. Okay. You guys. I'll be right back. I swear to God. I did not make this connection because I stopped thinking about the number.
Okay. I'll be right back. Okay. Okay. Should we go back? I'm excited. I love when the shit happens. Is there a number on that?
19. Oh, 19. For 19 bank robberies. Oh, okay. I thought, okay. Wow. Interesting. For some reason, whenever I've thought about the number of robberies, like, unless I'm like actually referring to my notes and looking at them, I've been thinking it was 14 robberies.
And then I was like, I have to look because I just read this in the notes. I think it's a 19 because it was so many. And they actually go through in the documentary that I watched, like quite a few of them, like in a good bit of detail for that, you know, format at least.
And police it. It's 19. That is. That is crazy. And the card number is the number that I can't thinking that it was. Yeah. That's funny too. How we, I mean, we show off pretty frequently what we're drinking, but like not always to the extent we showed it off like two times. Yeah.
And it's like made sure that we were showing it. So that's that's fun. Did I say that I drew this in the reverse? No, did you? I don't think so. I you showed it to me upright. I mean, you can always do that thing where we don't sometimes we just don't remember and then we it like fits both ways, you know.
And then I think that's one thing before I forget the turtles on a log and you put a log on the. That's so true. And it's like green turtles green and you're like money and like make the lights green.
Okay. So I'm skimming through both interpretations because I got so excited about the 19 crimes that was exciting. Yes.
And like, did I pull this in the reverse? Did I say reverse or did I pull it in the upright? I literally cannot remember. And as I'm skimming through the interpretation.
Just real quick, like scanning the bullet points. I'm like, I can make an argument for either I think we might have to just read them both and review the tape.
I can't agree. Them both, man. Oh my gosh. Okay. I feel like sometimes if my brain doesn't know or if it's feeling flip floppy, even when I even when I grab it, sometimes I'm like, do I do it? Which way? Yeah.
I feel like then it's kind of like, there's nothing wrong with that. We can do whatever the fuck we want.
True. We can. Okay. Keywords are moderation, harmony, acceptance, resolution, cooperation and patience.
This lovely card often features a winged angel male, female or and drudgeness.
In the writer wait Smith, the angel stands in a stream bordered by flowers. Obviously we have a tweedle.
In some decks, the figure pours liquid, the elixir of life from a golden vessel into a silver one in a continuous stream, suggesting the interplay of the material and spiritual world.
Oh, it's blowing my mind. You was such like a spiritual person, but also so much of like his pursuits were focused on material well.
Yeah. The word vessel relates to the great mother goddesses of antiquity. And the human body is often referred to as the vessel of the soul.
Thus both the angelic figure and the cups are symbolic references to the feminine force.
Upright temperance indicates a time of inner growth and outer harmony.
You're learning to temper your ego needs with the needs of the spirit within.
With patience, you can blend disparate elements of yourself and or your world into a harmonious whole.
In a reading about money, moderation is the key.
Yeah, you said moderation is one of the keywords and I was like, yeah.
Don't expect immediate gains or huge profits at this time.
This card may indicate a period when your finances are balanced or it may recommend getting money matters in order.
Yeah. If the reading is about your job, temperance represents a time of cooperation and relative peace in your workplace.
It can also recommend distributing responsibilities and rewards among co-workers in an equitable way.
Sometimes this card tells you to balance work and play.
It does seem like they were kind of like a they were like a tea and working together, you know.
In a reading about love, temperance urges you to heal rifts, avoid ego struggles and seek peace in a relationship.
It can also advise you to let a relationship develop at its own pace. Don't try to rush things.
When temperance is reversed, a situation may be stalled or out of balance.
All you can do is let batters work themselves out which they will in time.
Be patient. Trying to force inharmonious factors together will only cause bad feelings and poor results, like mixing oil and water.
Extreme actions or reactions will likely backfire now.
In a reading about money, intemperate spending may have plunged you into debt.
Conversely, insecurity or lack of self-worth may lead you to hoard money instead of enjoying it or finding ways to make it work for you.
They enjoyed it, right? Or at least one of them did.
Yeah, but I just feel like they're like the money, the financial habits were very erratic.
If the reading is about work, you may have trouble handling the responsibilities of your job or balancing your professional and personal life.
You like that was getting there?
Could be.
Perhaps you're not using your time efficiently. Temperance reversed can also indicate lack of cooperation or discord in your workplace.
In a reading about love, extreme emotions may provoke arguments or a standoff between you and a partner.
Egos get in the way of harmony and happiness. Temperance reversed can mean trying to rush a relationship which causes tension and frustration.
There's an extra excerpt. Patience in all things.
The word temperance derives from the Latin tempera which means to moderate, blend or mix together harmoniously.
Interestingly, the card was named Time in Early Decks which provides a key to its underlying meaning.
Temperance encourages patience, things happen at their own pace in their own time.
This is weird.
This is one of the great lessons of the Zen Masters.
There are times when nothing can be done and nothing needs to be done.
Or there's always time to catch them another day.
It's crazy.
Yeah, it's totally thinking of...
Sean? Sean? He's like, "Yeah, be patient. We can catch him again."
I'm sure there are so many elements of the investigation, the case, all of the people involved that we just can't ever fully know.
But I walked away feeling like, "Wow."
Thinking about how different factors of law enforcement handled this.
It's different when you're in the moment and you're there in person.
Sometimes you've done the legwork but maybe in the moment, whether it's traffic or something else
that prevents you from being right there in the hot seat.
It's hard to know how you're going to react but I did walk away feeling like Sean's approach and some of the tactics that he used
and some of the things that he profess felt like higher level.
I'm seeing what you're putting down.
I don't know how else to put it and I'm really struggling to not put it in a crossway.
But the situation may be a little bit different, just depending on who was handling it.
We're only ever going to know this scenario where it was handled the way it was.
But just too bad because I do think there are things that we can learn from sitting down with someone who has been this wildly successful.
And truly, you can see the progression from just walking up and doing these at the teller stand robberies and then eventually progressing to armed robberies and how they controlled the crowds.
The vault.
Getting the trackers.
And I was thinking to this whole time, their whole team had all the patience.
The patience was the word of the day.
They did make up and test runs and listen to scanners and hired people to buy cars.
That takes a lot of patience and planning.
And I think it's sort of like they have the patience and sort of whether it's the ability or you know they lucked out.
However you want to put that for them to be successful at a certain level.
And I think when you look at sort of how it was handled by different bodies of law enforcement, I look at Sean and sort of how he approached it as being like that's someone that is rising.
To meet that person where they're at to try to get ahead of it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I do think it's unfortunate that they weren't able to sit down with Scott for a lot of reasons.
Yeah.
But I think there's always something that we can kind of learn from from those interactions in hindsight.
I think so too.
Yeah.
You're right.
Also, we've said patience like 87 times so many times.
And we have a list of shout outs, but patience.
I'm thinking about you.
Speaking of patience, should I read?
Yeah, little interpretation.
Give it to me, baby.
This didn't even like cross my mind, but I guess it's why they put the turtle in the card because it says slow and steady progress.
There is wisdom in staying in my shell, not turtle.
I am safe from the raccoons crying pause and the hawk will think me a rock.
But soon she was hungry, the sun moved and she was cold.
She grew lonely.
So she emerged.
She filled up on Mayflies and cool water.
She found other turtles.
She basked.
There is wisdom in being open to the world, thought turtle.
A shadow of black feathers blocked the sun in the instant before the crow's beak struck in that moment of warning.
Turtle recanted her newfound philosophy.
She retracted into her shell and the beak glanced off her care pace.
Ah, realized turtle slightly rattled.
It is best to be sometimes in my shell and sometimes out.
There is wisdom in that.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
That's crazy.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I don't know.
There are so many aspects of this.
Like if you build a tree house in an isolated part of the woods, I feel like it's so emblematic of like so much of his personality and experience.
Yeah.
Like hiding in this turtle shell.
A little bit.
Yeah.
And especially once he really started to, you know, as they kind of advanced in this whole scheme and he really started to become a little bit paranoid and like they withdrew and they closed off the property more.
Oh, didn't they like stop for a year, you said?
They did.
Yeah, they did at one point.
Yeah.
And then they just like, I don't know if they were ever like almost, yeah, they were like almost caught.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, there were definitely some close calls for sure.
Like the first.
And then until, you know, the last definitely makes me think of that final.
Yeah.
Wow.
Like they should have just stayed in their shell.
Yeah.
Stay hidden while the hiding is good.
Okay.
I want to know what the other card is.
Um, it's the strength card.
Oh.
And it's a fish.
I think it's a sock.
I say I'm in.
I mean, I think I'm in a sock.
I'm in a sock.
Okay.
It's interesting.
We got two major arcana cards.
Yeah.
It's my card.
Wow.
I mean, I feel like just strength off the bat.
Like that.
Just.
It fits as well.
Okay.
So just write off the bat from the extra excerpt.
This.
I feel like it relates to something that I talked about really briefly.
Because I didn't want to overplay it.
Because I don't want people.
I don't want people to get it.
But I want people to be aware of what I'm going to do.
I want people to know what I'm going to do.
And I want people to know what I'm going to do.
I want people to know what I'm going to do.