It's not for me.
Alternate history, not for me.
You're more of a real history person.
You're like your...
No, no.
No.
I recently read a book about the Lindbergh baby.
We, that part was real.
He tarnished the burden, and I would like to speak on it.
All right, where's the craziest place everyone's peed?
But who is America if not our nation's children?
Yeah, country's kind of going hell in it.
[Music]
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Mean Book Club.
This week we read The Plot Against America by Philip Roth.
Ooh, scary plot.
Not seen.
Danger.
Fashes um, little boys.
Stamps.
Stamps are a big part.
Um, as always, we are Mean Book Club.
We read New York Times bestsellers that you make us essentially,
because you're like, I don't know, wasn't that good?
Please, because you're our boss.
Yeah.
We work for you.
Pretty much.
If you join our Patreon and become a patron, we do work for you.
Wow, an early plug.
We never do it so early.
I'm sure some of you cut out before the end, and you didn't even know we had a Patreon.
But we have a Patreon, you can become a patron.
And you can, there's also a tier where we will read a book you suggest.
So, um, enjoy.
But, um, here we are.
And here we are.
As always, I am one of your hosts, Sarah Burton.
I am one of your hosts, Donna Scrabis.
I'm sorry, was waiting for Clara.
She's gone here.
So sad.
I'm, I'm another one of your hosts, Sabrina Bee.
Jordan.
Wow, the drama.
Um, yeah, Clarina's lost her mojo.
Yeah, she has perhaps, she'll get it back.
There's still time for her to turn it around.
It's early in the episode.
Clara will be joining us at some point.
Um, we can only hope, uh, and pray.
Pray for her.
Um, but we'll keep going, uh, with the plot against America.
We can give you some background, et cetera.
So, uh, Donna.
Why are we, why are we reading this book?
Well, I'd love to answer that question.
Um, Miles May, who we have done another book by, um, I'm certain of it.
Can't book for mortals.
Yes.
Oh, there we go.
Miles May recommended handbook for mortals.
Um, came in with another hot, hot book.
Here's what Miles has to say.
I just figured I'd let you know that I bought another request because recently I found out a book in the somewhat niche genre of alternate history made its way onto the best seller list in 2004.
The plot against America tells the tale of a Jewish family that may or may not be based on the author's own family as they share the same last name.
Living in New Jersey after Charles Lindbergh defeated FDR in 1940.
Right off the bat, I will say that this book is a lot more competently written than the last thing I requested you look at.
But I think it would be interesting to discuss if only because I feel like you'd be able to see parallels between the fictional Lindbergh administration and the current administration.
Okay.
Yes.
I mean, I don't love, I don't personally love that ask, but they did, um, join the tier.
Requires us to do it.
So, so do it.
I think we should do it.
We should.
Well, I like it.
And I, I, I said that when we picked this one and the reason is because it's, you know, all we want to pick are thrillers.
You know this.
All we want to pick are gone girl at the window woman.
Because they're the real.
A gone girl at the window woman.
Yeah.
Okay.
So is it important that Miles pushes us to have a diverse season?
Yeah. Okay. Fine. This is it. This is this, this does diversify our portfolio.
We need to do this.
Otherwise, what are we doing?
Just reading books.
We kind of want to read.
No, we, we do this to punish ourselves.
We do this to punish ourselves.
Well, this one is punishment.
Yes.
It was.
All right.
Well, I might have felt a little differently, but how did you guys read it?
How'd you consume it?
Oh.
Oh, boy.
Actually.
I know.
Oh, I, I got it at the library.
I always feel like it's so interesting.
I got it at the library.
I never.
I know.
I missed it.
So I didn't have to use any of my credits, which is nice.
And then I listened to it on as fast as I could, except the guy narrating it, his voice, like,
I know that you all think this always at three times speed, but his voice was not understandable
at three times speed.
Yeah, he is.
He had a very thick accent.
And he was like, and see that.
It like, there was like a popping to his voice that like, became very irritating at three
times speed.
So I had to listen it to point six five.
Oh, okay.
Big difference.
Really slowed you down there.
Um, John, I had a jury to it.
Well, I bought it on Audible because, you know, as we have explained, Sarah got us all Audible
subscriptions for the season.
And the problem is I'm sort of like a wild animal that you all have started feeding.
Like now that I have this, this bowl of kibble in front of me, I haven't been able to go
on my own books at all.
I've lost.
Wow.
I'm not a library.
I don't even try to look anywhere else.
I don't do anything.
I just go to Audible.
I click.
I would like to use a credit.
And then it appears seconds later.
It's so easy.
And I'm becoming a fat cat.
Oh, yeah.
All right, fat cat.
I, I also, I still try.
I've been trying to do the library, but it's, you know, too backed up.
So I actually used audiobooks.com for this one because I had, you know, been paying for
it for a while and forgot.
So I have some, you know, that's my bad.
Um, but I will also say I did also read this before in college.
Um, it was a part of like the, like, oh, you can read this book list before.
For your freshman year and then we're going to all meet to get together and, um, talk about
this book and this, for the otters college.
And I was like, yeah.
And so I read the plot against America and the life of pie.
There are a few other ones because we did life of pie.
That was also one of them on the list.
And I was so excited.
And then I got in in my roommate.
I said, oh, you're going to go and she was like, no.
And, um, then I never went.
I never went to those.
Oh my god.
Cause I didn't want to be on cool.
I didn't want her to think I was in cool.
Wait, it's crazy that you like read the book kind of to be cool and make friends.
Yeah.
And then the minute the first person said that that was not the way to be cool.
Yeah.
You abandoned it instantly immediately.
Yeah.
I needed to her name, Michelle, Tania said, I don't know if she's listening, but I needed
to impress her badly.
And, um, yeah, she was, she just was like really chill laid back.
And I, I, I had to, I tried to make myself into her as much as possible.
But anyway, that's not the first time I read this book.
And also I'll say, I do like alternate history.
Like it is a genre that I typically enjoy.
Yeah.
I'm not that I don't have plenty to say about this one.
But I, I also, this was also at HBO series, I think in like 2022 or something.
Oh, was it?
I was saying that I thought it might be more interesting as a series that had like hour
long episodes.
Yeah.
In a little drama.
Um, but we actually went to that.
Come out.
Yeah.
It came out kind of like kind of recently.
It was in 20, oh, 2020 Jesus Christ.
Wow.
That was the beginning of the pandemic.
That's so wild.
Never came across my desk.
Mother thinks or I know maybe bad timing, um, maybe bad timing, but when owner writer, Morgan
John Turtaro had big, oh my God.
He goes to all the Liberty games.
So I'm a fan of him, a friend of yours really.
Yeah.
But pretty much he sits a few rows in front of me.
He seems cool.
But yeah, yeah, but read this book.
We'll go to the book because we're talking about the book.
So we, well, I don't know.
I want to talk about John Turtaro.
I kind of do too.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I love him.
Zach Cherry goes to sometimes.
No, I don't think he has season tickets, but I feel like I see him.
Good for him.
Yes, I actually weirdly saw like a Zach Cherry court side at the Lady Liberty game nets.
The where did you see that?
Where did you see that?
It was like in the paper or something.
It was like a paper.
The paper.
New York Times.
Zach Cherry, that.
I say, I say.
All right.
This is Clara class it up.
So really, really excited to shoot for another shorty from Clara.
This time she gave us parts, though.
All right.
He wants to be Philip.
Sarah, I mean, I think you make it an excellent.
Oh, no.
This is asking for me to do an accent.
I will not.
I cannot do.
I'll try.
But I don't know if I can try.
No, I don't know if I can do it.
I think I could do a New York accent.
OK, OK.
Then you do a Philip.
Sabrina, do you want to be Alvin?
I can.
All right.
Sabrina was maybe gone in for Philip.
I'm sorry.
Sabrina, you want to--
I was.
I wasn't.
I didn't even speak up.
Well, we looked in your eyes.
I got to try to get in the headspace of my coworker, Jessica.
How does she talk?
Hey, Jessica, what's up today?
How are you doing?
Fuck off.
OK, perfect.
You got it.
You found it.
All right, let's go.
All right, here's the summary for the plot against America
by Clara Morris.
I'm just the Jewish kid in Newark narrating my life
and also a history textbook.
I go back and forth, see if you can pay attention.
Oh, I should mention that this is an alternate history
in which I have to watch my father,
the most electrifyingly dedicated and staunchly
hardworking man there ever was, Indora Nazi
and Nazi sympathizing president during World War II.
And also, my mother, the most to nature,
he arcled smooth, aproned woman,
to ever have to create a household of peace
and harmony among political persecution
and people unknown to me, a little boy who likes baseball
is the most--
in the most precient time of life.
Philip, can you change the bandages on my stump?
I have to go.
But let me just say, I got my neighbor's mom killed violently.
There are scabs, Philip.
Finn, that's an end.
All right, very good.
John, amazing accent.
I'm very impressed.
A real--
For real.
I only work with people from Staten Island and Long Island.
I'm full stop.
You fully leaned in.
I loved it.
And OK, so yeah, I guess that is what it's about.
There's a lot of information not in there,
but I'm sure we'll talk about it.
And work not mentioned seems like a--
A Lindbergh not a hot end.
This is the alternate history has him as the president.
But, you know, sure, sure.
We'll get back to it.
But yeah, that's the gist.
It's a coming of age story for a little--
it's basically a little boy's coming of age story,
but unfortunately, it's also--
it's at a time when a fascist is the president.
Uh-oh.
That's--
Yeah, more what it is.
But, John, do we have any jugs?
Do you have a carry?
Drink pairing for us.
Got a jug.
I think that this book would be a tremendous opportunity
for everyone to try Manashavit's wine, if you've never
tried it.
I knew.
You knew?
I knew.
OK.
Well, I myself, prior to this book, have never tried it,
because I've never been invited to a Passover, which
makes me sad and consider this and open invite to invite to.
Wow.
That actually came out.
It's actually shocking.
Sad to say.
And this is a Jewish wine that is traditionally
part of a Passover gathering.
And it's known for its distinctive grape, slightly
syrupy flavor.
It has been compared to a grape flavored cough syrup.
This is as sweet as it gets full.
That's really selling.
Not really selling.
You know what's funny is, so I don't like sweet wines.
But I feel that the Manashavits is so sweet that it transcends
into a different tier of almost actual grape juice.
And that you get a little buzz from?
Yeah.
Buzzy grape juice.
Yeah.
OK.
That's fun.
And it truly is the perfect pairing for this book,
because--
Well, I guess--
Listen on.
--to get some fun out more.
I feel like they get it.
Little I think they get it.
[LAUGHTER]
Thank you so much.
It's really-- it's the Jewish thing.
It's really--
It's probably the Jewish thing.
Let's talk about Phil.
I think that's about it.
I guess.
Phil up-- the main character is kind of like--
obviously, this isn't a real history,
but it's based on him.
So he also grew up at Newark.
His dad was an insurance broker.
In high school, he was considered funny.
He started at Rutgers, transferred to Bucknell.
He got his MA from Chicago University.
And in 1955, assuming he'd be drafted,
he joined the Army, but got hurt and basic training.
Oh, maybe luckier.
I don't know how he got hurt, but--
Good deal.
His fourth book in 1969 called Port Noise Complaint
is what made him famous.
And he died in 2018, so Clara says, play it cool.
OK.
It makes sense.
I feel like actually I listened to an interview with him
in 2018, some extent, so I couldn't find something more recent.
But yeah, I think he's pretty well decorated as a writer,
kind of a--
probably not so much in the Army since just
had that little basic training, Snathil.
Yeah, I know he wrote his written.
He's written a lot about Jewish-American identity.
Um, he's one of the most honored Jewish-American writers
of his generation.
He's received the National Books Criticist Circle Award.
OK, so play cool.
And the Ken Falkner Award, National Book Award,
Pulitzer Prize for American Pastoral, which is another--
he got the France Kafka Prize, the inaugural one in 2001.
The Library of America began publishing his complete works
in 2005.
He's very much so like a quintessential American--
Oh, good writer.
Yeah, yeah.
He's really good.
Nautoriously well-known.
Good.
So I'm going to assume maybe the-- that part--
we're probably not going to have a lot to complain about
in terms of--
I mean, I can find a thing or two.
OK.
All right, well, I was going to say--
my big complaint is that--
and this isn't like a-- it's not--
I don't know if you like--
OK, well, we're not there yet.
We're not there yet.
Oh, I'll tell you later.
Well, are they complainers?
Everyone can know later.
Wow, so many teasers, the sub-aceties.
The teas.
Now this book, this book, The Plot Against America--
I guess just last year in 2024, it was ranked number 65
in the New York Times list for best 100 novels
of the 21st century.
OK, that is--
huge.
Yeah, yeah.
It was published in 2004, and it spent 16 weeks on the best
cellar list in 0405.
We talked about it.
It's also a mini series.
It's a heralded book, Painfully a Moving Genuinely
American Story by The Washington Post,
a terrific political novel as well as sinister, vivid,
dreamlike preposterous and at the same time,
creepily plausible, said The New York Times.
It has long fluid sentences that carry you beyond skepticism
the guard in.
So yeah, a lot of people liking, although I will say,
even though I read this in 2005 or 2006,
I don't remember everything about what it was like,
but I think there's a lot just because of the political climate
and how much it's changed that it doesn't feel the same.
It almost is stuff in the book is too subtle.
You know what I mean?
It's like--
It's crazy enough.
This fascist president doesn't seem that bad compared
to stuff I've seen.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, right.
I think that because of that, to me,
it feels like it lost a lot of its bite that probably--
Sure.
And that's sad.
That is sad, that is sad, but that's just how I feel.
But all right, I guess we can dive in--
I've noticed something that I'd like to point out
before we dive into the book.
Go ahead.
It's about miles.
I am worried that miles has set us up to fail here.
Maybe miles might be an enemy of ours.
Here's my rationale.
OK.
Go back to miles' recommendation.
Nothing actually negative is said about the book.
It's just a description of the book.
And the line I think would be interesting to discuss.
That's what I said I didn't like.
I didn't like this.
Well, then we get down here.
And it's just like--
it's one of the 65 best novels of the 21st century.
This man is a hero.
He's won the Pulitzer Prize.
And what I'm wondering is miles setting us up
to pick a book like this, do it, trash it,
and then it ruins our lives.
The cast is over.
People hate it.
Is miles trying to kill the podcast?
It's interesting.
It's an interesting theory.
I don't know.
I'm just wondering.
It's possible.
And how do we handle it?
Do we do miles?
Yes.
And why?
I think we have to keep going.
I think where he's got us against the handrail.
What is it?
The guardrails?
He's got our back against the wall.
We don't have anywhere to go.
We got to do this.
What are we going to stop for?
We're between the bull and the guardrail.
Yeah.
And night on then the bulls come in for that guardrail
for some reason.
Bulls can scream.
This is a great make.
It's a great make sense.
Subrebrate.
You had-- what was the thing--
what did you want to talk about, sorry?
Oh, well, I was just going to say my major complaint
with the book.
It is really just like, it's not for me.
And so it being so long made it feel so long.
I didn't--
I think he did a great job.
And it appears that others agree.
[LAUGHTER]
It's like, sure, that's how it got to be number 65
on the top 100 books of the century or whatever it is.
Yeah.
But historical fiction, not for me.
Alternate history, not for me.
You're more of a real history person.
You like your--
No.
If the word history is in your mouth, I'm out.
Mm-hmm.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
I guess this is more for me, because I do really love history.
And I do find--
I think it's kind of fun.
I get really into like, oh, I'm going
to read more about Bunch about Charles Lindbergh now
and compare things he actually said to Hat
was in the book and stuff like that.
Oh, I sure won't be doing that.
Well?
Mm.
Well, it's interesting.
Well, it takes all the time.
And then, of course, in that Lindbergh,
he has a vice president, Burton Wheeler.
And of course, Burton being the name.
I didn't--
Oh.
I just see that character become such the evil villain, right?
Sure.
Because at the end, even worse, the Lindbergh almost.
And then I'm like, well, then I read about him in real life.
And I was kind of like, well, Philip Roth.
That seemed a little fucked up that you did that to this guy,
you know?
He actually seemed like a--
He tarnished a Burton.
And I would like to speak on it.
And I'll hold it for later.
I'll hold it for the right time.
OK.
But I would like to proffer a defense of the Burton.
OK.
OK, we can do that.
We can get to that.
I think my main criticism of the book
is very similar to Sabrina's in that I'm listening
to this long ass book.
And it feels like I'm learning something
because it's history.
It's certainly boring enough to be a textbook.
But it's not because it's all fake.
So I'm like, I'm listening to all of this.
And it's not even going to help me in my life.
It's not a talking point.
It's not like, well, you know what?
Now I know how the I did a rod came to be at least.
It's not.
I don't-- that's OK.
That's another book I'm reading right now.
I've talked about it.
But you do learn about--
you do learn a little bit about maybe these characters,
like Lynn Berg and his--
Learning about him is probably the one thing I was like,
oh, I didn't realize that he was probably anti-Semitic
and things like that.
But also, like, Charles Lynn Berg--
this is really going to make me sound so incredibly stupid.
And I recognize that.
But if you had said the name Charles Lynn Berg to me
before this book, I would have said,
yes, that is a figure in history probably the 1900s.
And then--
That's a brain of really-- you didn't know who that was.
Do you know what nearly--
And I'm kind of artist?
Yeah.
OK, I just feel like they're usually
talked about together so I'm surprised.
Really?
I don't think they're same tier.
All I know--
Wow.
I mean, what I know about Amelia Earhart
is she was cool, pilot, and was going
to go around the world, but we lost her.
But I feel like I know that because I'm a girl.
And that was interesting to me.
Oh, so now you only listen to history if it's about--
They're like two of the two most prominent figures
in aviation history.
I still think it's crazy.
See, she's the only person I know from aviation history.
OK, here.
OK, Charles Lynn Berg made the first--
The ripe not.
I should say.
Charles Lynn Berg made the first solo
on Soft Translantic Flight.
And I believe--
and then Amelia Earhart made the first one as a woman.
Like, they're very much so handed handed first.
I prefaced the promise.
I know.
OK, OK.
This will make me sound down.
Fair, fair, fair, fair.
I recently read a book about the Lynn Berg Baby.
And I will say it was actually--
I guess, technically, a fictional history,
but it was based on facts.
I guess a historical fiction.
That's what this would be.
This one.
Wait, wait.
What do you mean?
That part was real.
The Lynn Berg Baby?
Yeah, he had a--
Yes, yes.
--is real.
He had--
That's what I'm saying.
Every house is so.
But there's details that they don't even include in this book.
So Mr. Aviation Hero had a son.
They lived in Princeton, New Jersey.
The boy was born--
and people say maybe he had some sort of condition
because his head was larger than it should have been.
And he might have been a little weaker than other kids.
But it's not really clear if there
was something wrong with him or not.
But Charles Lynn Berg was dipping his toe or more
into fascism, Nazism, and maybe even eugenics.
And so there is a lot of weight behind the possibility
that he was responsible for his son's death
because the kid wasn't perfect.
But in the book that I read, based on all the facts of the case,
what they posit is that he was this weird--
he was a weirdo.
And he used to like to try to play pranks on his wife
by stealing the baby and leaving him outside.
And the night Baby Lynn Berg went missing--
I haven't heard this.
This is a theory.
The night Baby Lynn Berg went missing,
there was a ladder pressed up against the baby's window.
And around the eighth rung, the ladder broke.
And what people think potentially happened
is that his own dad, Kidnapped him from his window,
was taking him down the ladder as a joke,
fell on the ladder, dropped the baby, the baby died,
and then he left him in the woods a couple days later.
But they never found the baby.
They did.
They found him.
And that's another weird fact of the case,
because they find him on the grounds of the house,
not far.
But supposedly, there was a kidnapper and ransom note.
It's a very mysterious, but maybe there was a kidnapper.
And maybe I'm smearing a bad man's good name.
But well, that's part of it.
I'm not going to defend him.
I'm defending Burton Wheeler.
I'm not going to defend him.
Sure.
No, no, no.
But yeah, the story of the Lynn Berg Baby
is a really crazy breed if anyone is interested.
I'll tell you the book.
I think the book I read was called The Lynn Berg Nanny.
And it's from the nanny's perspective.
And so it's fully fictionalized.
It's your claimant.
No, no.
It sounds fictionalized.
It sounds like what I-- it's just like this book
starts from a basis effect and then extrapolates.
It sounds like they're doing that.
No, because this is an actual alternate history.
There was no Lynn Berg presidency.
Right, but there's no nanny who wrote a book.
Well, there was a nanny.
And the fantasy--
Yeah, but this is an nanny who wrote the book.
Well, I know that you guys are in a hot dispute right now,
but I just need to jump in to clarify something
I said earlier, because I didn't realize how much of this
was plucked from truth.
And I said that Charles Lindbergh might have been anti-Semitic.
And I wanted to clear up that based on my Google search,
he definitely was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I was not in any way trying to defend him.
OK, at all.
OK, fair.
That's where he's trying to catch us.
Miles is trying to get us to--
Yeah.
But I'm just stupid.
And I need to educate myself.
And that's what I'm doing.
Crazy.
Can you imagine somebody who's just famous for flying
to be an elected president?
Well, well, well, well.
I guess--
OK, wait, wait.
I do want to weigh in on your debate, which is--
Thank you.
--I think that this book is a subgenre
of historical fiction that is alternate history.
And it sounds like John's book is just historical fiction.
Thank you.
But yeah.
Wait, why is that-- why is that you saying you're right?
You're trying to claim that yours is not fictional when
I'm trying to say it is.
But this book is taking much bigger swings and leaps with its--
I don't--
I disagree.
I mean, sure, because we're talking about a world,
as opposed to a nanny, but it's still--
We're talking about a world as opposed to maybe some details
may or may not have been--
John, I know--
I'm just concerned that you're just exalt--
True.
I think you're accepted all of this.
No, a lot of the stuff is based on something.
A lot of them are-- if you--
OK.
A lot of stuff, Philip Roth literally
took from speeches they actually set and just put them
at a different location or different time.
But it's like--
And actually, that is one of the most impressive parts
of the book is the amount of research
and that he did for all of the characters,
except for again, Burton Wheeler, as I will discuss.
But also, I found out--
this is a little dig at him, OK?
Because you guys know of alternative history,
you're familiar with the man on the high tower.
Yeah, alternative history, like what this book is,
is opposed to historical fiction.
Jesus Christ.
Man on the high tower.
It was also a--
Man in the high castle, I'm sorry, I'm saying it wrong.
Man in the high castle.
It was also like an Amazon Prime series
that was 10 years ago.
Philip K-- yeah, Philip K. Dick's.
I feel like some people pick this book up
and think it's going to be that, which is a little bit more,
I would say, nefarious.
That's like-- that is set in a parallel universe
where like Axis Patti-- Nazi Germany one.
And now we're after, we're post-World War II.
Where it's like--
It's like another Philip.
That's true.
But this one is a little more like leading up to it.
And then also, he backed-- I'll talk.
This is my big complaint.
I feel like he does a big backtrack at the end
to be like, up.
And now everything's back to how it was in the real world.
Like, do you know what I mean?
Where he's like, now Roosevelt's president again.
And we're fighting the Nazis by the end.
And I was like, that seems like a little bit--
if I'm believing a butterfly effect,
I'm not going to believe that that's happening.
That it's a little bit of--
Yeah.
But I guess, you know, I don't necessarily
say and I want to read a book where he just--
Well, and something I also didn't like in that same vein.
And I don't know if it was rooted in history or it wasn't.
But at the end, they--
expolular alert, the president goes missing, which
is another great mean book club book.
It really is, wow.
And people are theorizing what happened.
And one of the theories thrown out
is that the Nazis had abducted the Lindbergh baby.
And he was doing all of this in the name of protecting
and saving his son.
And I want-- like, obviously, I don't think
that there's any justification for like raining.
I also didn't like it.
But I didn't like the idea of introducing that there was some
good motivating the Lindbergh character.
Exactly.
I was like, is he afraid the Lindbergh's
going to sue him or something?
I also felt like-- yeah, that was--
I thought that was pretty lame because--
And he didn't say--
he said it as though some people believe this.
So it's not like he's saying this is what happened.
So it's like-- I guess it's giving the reader an option
to be like, if I choose to believe that,
to make myself feel better about a Lindbergh, I can.
But it's just seemed lame to me.
I don't like that.
Yeah.
And it purifies all of his followers a little bit, too,
where it's like, well, of course.
I don't know.
I agree.
Yes.
Yeah, to give him those mixed motives.
Yeah.
Again, it really felt to me like, oh,
he's afraid of the Lindbergh's pursuing him.
So he has to give him some pure motive for doing this
and blah, blah, blah.
Which again, if so, what about Burton K. Wheeler's family?
What about the Burton, so fast.
OK.
Anyway, wanted to throw out--
and I don't even remember one of my brief reading of this--
that-- oh, there was another alternate history novel called
The Divide that came out in 1980, where
Burton Wheeler becomes president in 1940, which I thought was--
Wow.
Which I think--
He was a Democrat.
Where the Democrats differ in back then.
Yeah.
Where they essentially were Republican.
Not that.
Not quite, but it was definitely maybe of the '90s.
I don't think you can really compare it
to our current makeup of Republican-verse Democrat,
to be honest.
But I feel like there was a time you could say they just reversed.
Anyway, but he wasn't like--
I'll go into it.
But I just was like, oh, is this where he got it from?
Is this where he saw this?
And was like, all right, I'm going to take him and make him.
My VP--
maybe not.
That's not that interesting.
I'm so sorry.
I said that.
Wow, Burton Wheeler is interesting.
I-- I-- OK.
OK, just kidding.
Just to share with the listeners.
I'm just going to--
I'm just going to get it out.
I'm just going to get it out of here.
I think he-- it's true that he was picked--
he picked him because he was like an isolationist, right?
Then that's why.
But he wasn't like an American--
America first isolationist, which is like a more like,
I think, insidious view part of isolationism.
Like he's more just like anti-immolationist.
Well, Burton--
Well, Burton strongly supported the America first.
Right, but he wasn't in it.
Yes, but he wasn't in a--
like it was different.
He supported their aims of isolationism,
but he wasn't like in it for the racism, I guess,
if that makes sense.
It feels like--
Kind of like he probably did it to get elected.
Sure, but like, OK, he was also--
I don't think that helped him elect him.
He was like a very--
He was like, oh goodness, there's a famous book that--
Oh, Mr. Smith goes to Washington.
You guys know that, right?
What is it?
OK, well, it's kind of like--
it's loosely based on him and his experience
investigating the heartied administration.
He was somebody he found bad people.
And he was also like a big union supporter.
And he was on like a ticket with like a black guy
and like a multi-racial ticket before like anybody else.
I don't know.
It was just like a lot of interesting things
that he was like, oh, I feel like from this book,
I just thought, oh, this guy must be pretty evil.
And then I was like, this seems like a little unfair to him.
He seemed like maybe very liberal and like forward thinking
for his time.
And like everyone else, once Pearl Harbor happened,
he was like, OK, never mind.
Let's kill him.
Let's get him.
You know what I mean?
That's the trouble with an alternate tree.
Well, and here's a thing.
I'm hesitant to agree or disagree with anything
you say because I truly know so little that you could be like saying
something.
He could have done something real bad that we just
haven't uncovered yet.
And I don't want to be on any side.
You think historically we may still uncover.
No, no, no, no.
I mean that we, we three kings have not--
I see.
All right.
OK.
Well, anyway.
OK.
Sorry.
This is also just this is just this very side thing,
re-Burt and Wheeler.
But in 1946, he was defeated in the Democratic primary
by Leif Ericsson.
OK.
Just throwing out that name.
And then Ericsson in turn was defeated
by the Republican State Representative, Zales Ecton.
I'm just talking.
We got Burton.
We got Leif and we got Zales.
They were having fun with names back then at the beginning
of the century.
Males have-- I don't know.
I was just-- what are fun names?
What happened?
Those are good.
You know, you just don't--
they're not as so many Leif's, not so many Zales.
It's like in the Salem Witch Trials,
there's a bunch of good names.
And then there's Dorcas.
I think we've talked about that.
Yeah, Dorcas, Dorcas.
It's tough one.
And we know Dorcas.
So Sabrina?
No.
Lilith?
Yeah.
Oh, a Dorcas.
Yeah, OK.
It's a last name.
But a first name.
Come on.
Yeah.
Also sorry for the strabullet, Sabrina.
[LAUGHTER]
You're like, I must be mocking Sabrina.
All right.
I mean, I took it as you thought I have magical powers.
Oh, yeah.
I'm out of your wish.
That's what I meant.
You're what you need.
But yeah, this book--
I do think the one--
when you're like the plot against America,
and it's like, oh, alternative history and fascist
taking over.
And then it's like, you're spending all your time
with a 10-year-old little Jewish boy.
Is it very funny to me?
Like, because it was a trick.
And I did feel like it was tricking us all.
Because he did his things he cared about, like the stamp
collection.
And I mean, it was very believable and true to character
and all that kind of stuff.
But I did end up really liking his character by the end.
He was very funny to me.
Even though it was not funny, as Claire pointed out
that he had his friend's mother murdered around a pelway.
Sorry.
Yeah.
Just to explain--
You're laughing pretty hard.
I was laughing pretty hard.
It was.
Because it's funny.
But it's one of the saddest.
There's not really anything bad.
OK, other than the fascist taking over and non-seasam,
in our little town, and the plot is a lot less insidious.
It's a lot more subtle.
Like, you know, the dad getting letting
go from his job because he won't move to Kentucky
where they're trying to get all the Jews.
Well, they're trying to get all the Jews abducted.
His brother to send him to another family
to make him assimilate better.
But he chose it.
He chose it.
It's not--
You know, I don't want to say that.
Well, he dumped it.
I would, I would, I would--
But it was abducted.
Well, we should have gone through that.
The Lindbergh administration proposes a program
where Jewish people--
basically, Jewish kids get separated from their parents.
And just folks--
that's what they call it.
Yes.
And the family-- the main family in the book,
Sandy's family, their dad recognizes it for what it is,
which is a separating of parents from kids
a weakening of the Jewish family.
Yeah, attempting to an Americanism.
I mean, and that kind of stuff does have historical basis.
It's like stuff that was actually done with, you know,
American Indians and stuff like that.
So--
And so then the consequences are exactly,
like, basically what the dad predicted would happen.
And so part of what's interesting in the book
is, like, I guess seeing it all happen
through the eyes of this 10-year-old boy who, again,
is obsessed with stamps.
We could have lost 50% of the stamp talk and the price of stamps
and who's on the stamp.
But yeah, watching kind of a kid who is so--
you know, when you're a certain age, sometimes your parents
can just seem so dumb and old-fashioned,
and like, they don't get how the world works anymore.
And then, like, when you get older and you have more perspective,
you realize, like, the ways that they were right
or smart about something.
And so dad was right.
This was intended to weaken the family and pull them apart.
And it's kind of a sad moment.
I think he's at a point where he's starting
to see his parents as, like, less of, like, perfect humans
that can protect him at all times.
I feel like that also is happening at this age
where he's starting to realize, like, oh, OK, they're not.
They can't do everything.
They're not infallible kind of stuff.
And then, like, yeah.
But anyway, there's a whole--
so that's some of the stuff that's happening.
So his aunt is running this Just Folks program.
So that's like a whole subplot where his aunt marries
rabbi Bengals door of who is in the Lindbergh White House.
And so they're kind of like a Jewish--
a traitor to the Jews.
Like, a lot of people don't like him.
But he has his own argument for why he thinks it's good.
It's like better to support Lindbergh or that Lindbergh
isn't as bad, blah, blah, blah.
Anyway, his aunt-- he goes to his aunt, basically,
unless, like, begging for her not to send his family
to Kentucky.
And he kind of brings up his downstairs neighbor.
And kind of like, why can't you send them?
And she was like, oh, do you want me to?
Is that your friend?
And then he wanted them to just--
heard us send them and not him.
But he just says yes, even though that's not true.
And so they get sent as well.
And so even though his family ends up not going
because his dad chooses to lose his job rather
than make the transfer, the little boy and his mom go.
And then there are some riots.
And I guess essentially like a massacre, Jesus Christ,
that his mom gets caught up in and the little boys
like home alone.
And it's kind of sad because it's like, oh, you see,
they didn't have any community because they were there.
To say it's kind of sad.
I guess that's crazy.
[LAUGHTER]
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Wow, it's tough.
It didn't really happen though.
It's not real history.
So nothing remember that.
That's true.
Mm-hmm.
But you know, I'll also say it hits harder
because the book wasn't filled with tragedy
after frickin tragedy.
Like so many of the books we read where you just
become numb to it all.
Yeah, you don't care anymore.
And you're rooting for something worse
to happen to the characters.
You're like, good, good.
Yeah.
This book, smartly, was like, we'll have them have a pretty
normal life.
A couple little bad things are going to happen, hardships.
But then, watch out.
Something really kind of sad is going to happen.
As Sarah would say.
OK, clearly.
A little--
Hey, Clara.
I feel like something about this book
is that it felt so much more real than a lot of the books
that we read, which I guess--
Yes.
--can be true with historical fiction.
But it genuinely felt like--
I didn't want to root for anything bad to happen
because it felt like they were real people.
And I don't want bad things to happen to real people.
I guess I don't want them to happen to characters either,
but with the characters really bad.
Well, I always thought--
No, I always thought of characters.
I thought his brother was interesting
because he goes to Kentucky and kind of does get brainwashed
a little.
But like, you know, thinks is like, hey, they were nice.
They were fine.
I got to eat a bunch of pig meat.
It was great.
I don't know.
It was just such a little kid calling his family ghetto, Jews.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, because he's embarrassed of them, which is like--
I mean, like, we know what happens.
So we're like, hey, but you're not on the right side of history.
But like, as a teenager, you can kind of--
if you imagine how you were a teenager at all being like,
my family's so embarrassing.
It's like taking that, but multiplying it
at times 100 because--
That again, the cool family for a second.
Yeah.
So you're just saying--
I'm going to eat meat.
Sarah, he was like right to say what he said.
Yeah, like I agree.
Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say.
Miles, is that what you wanted?
No, no.
Miles, I haven't think about it all cast.
Thanks for recommending the book.
You know, I'm just joking around with--
OK.
Are you afraid of what he'll do next?
Is that why?
What next--
The next submission--
Miles pays for us to have to read the Bible or something.
And we're like, Miles, at least we'll have fun
and make fun of.
Blake, please edit that out.
Please edit that out.
I don't want to place that idea in anyone's head.
That was my immediate fear of going to Sarah's joke.
I mean it.
Edit it out.
That just shows people listen to us.
Yeah.
But yeah, I don't know.
I guess going back to-- I feel like--
yeah, my biggest issue is what Sabrina already said.
I didn't like that whole.
Well, maybe Lindbergh was just doing it because of this.
Whoopie-doo.
And then I also really didn't like how everything--
he write it the ship by the end.
It just felt--
I don't know.
That just felt too simple or easy or like--
he'd done all this work to create the alternative history.
Why is it all the sudden?
I don't know.
I guess there's an argument to be made that like,
oh, the inevitability of the defeat of Nazism.
And that's why even if we went askew,
we would come back or I don't know.
But yeah.
Oh, TBD I guess.
Yeah, TBD.
Doing what I want to talk about current times,
is Miles requested?
Or I feel like the only thing I can say
is I guess if you're comparing him to Lindbergh,
it's like Lindbergh.
Yeah, he was like a celebrity who became president.
But he was also very well spoken and charming.
And at least once he became president,
he didn't say, oh, anything like openly any symmetric.
He toned stuff down.
So it was like, so a breath couldn't even imagine.
That it would be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that's why I think it always loses a lot of bite
because you're like, well, he could have been a lot more openly
that way.
And we would have been like, yep, sounds about right.
Sounds like Americans.
That we know would be like, yeah, he's tall in it like it is.
And we'd love it.
And that's upsetting, but also true.
Yeah, I don't know.
We're still in it.
So it's kind of hard to reflect back on, do you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
Like what people are saying.
I was just going to say, like whenever the book got to a point
where it was like, well, that's a bit of a stretch.
Oh, right.
It's not kind of was the all the context I needed
for the current administration.
And then you get a little bit sad.
Yeah.
It's not-- nothing was too much of a stretch,
but I went into good reads and just kind of like see, you know,
because we're like, oh, this is such a highly-alloweded book.
I was like, what did some people say bad about it?
And this was just a quote from one of them.
By the way, Linberg as president is described
as flying an extremely fast two-engine fighter, a Lockheed
Interceptor on recreational flights over Washington
and the Potomac, a plane by that name didn't exist then.
Though Lockheed later made an interceptor in the early '60s.
The USAF pulled the plug on it, and it never went into full production.
But it did become a prototype of the Blackbird reconnaissance
jet.
Point is, this violates one of the accepted tenets
of historical fiction that period detail should be accurate.
One wonders how authentic was the author's memoir of his family
in the New York Jewish community.
Oh, my God.
Did I get a spin around and attack this person's memoir as well?
I love that.
I know so much about planes.
Now the scrumbles.
That does bring up one of the funnier points of the book to me,
which was that Linberg apparently, after he was elected president,
would fly his 500-mile per hour plane over Washington, D.C. every afternoon.
And people would go crazy for it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just as like, especially with how often planes wrecked at that time.
It's just like so I mean.
And they do, and so they do in this program.
And again, yes.
But it was very crazy and unhinged.
Yeah.
I don't think President even drive their own cars.
So I do think that was--
I guess it was his version of golfing.
But it's like, don't you have paperwork to do?
We all have normal jobs.
And I definitely don't have time to fly my plane.
I mean, just think of the time involved in that, right?
You have to get out to the airfield.
Do all this stuff to start a plane.
What is that?
Hours, plane checks, fuel.
I don't know.
Abby Wadge for the weather.
Abby Wadge and Nathan Fielder's show.
Yes, I have.
I'm--
So I'm--
I do think the president could get someone to do the checks for him.
Sure, but he's still to get to the airs.
He's just to fly it.
A way.
Yeah.
It still seems a lot.
He likes it, though.
You have to understand he likes it, though.
So if he can make a reason to do it, maybe he will--
I get it.
Just as someone who, like, I had cereal for dinner tonight,
I haven't exercised in three years.
[LAUGHTER]
I don't understand how he could have that.
How exactly.
Have that much free time.
That's all.
Well, he's not helping with the children.
I can play that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Also, it doesn't seem like he's doing a great job
at being president outside of this, you know?
Yeah, the country's kind of going hell in it.
Everyone's divided.
Wait, also, sorry.
I just went back to the Lindbergh kidnapping briefly.
And I'm reading that the child's corpse
was discovered in a nearby road at Jason Hopewell Township.
You said it was like in their backyard.
It was.
It was very close.
It was within a mile of the house.
OK, I feel like this is a little different than saying the--
And see, this is the danger of historical things, OK?
OK, look, it's been a quite a large estate, I guess.
It was found on their grounds.
I'm positive.
OK.
In the book or in real life?
Both.
This is what we're talking about.
In a different fake book.
OK, he was found approximately 4 1/2 miles away.
OK.
All right.
Well, look, I read the book a long time ago.
I don't think this is a failure of the book.
I think this is a failure of my memory, which is famously
very bad.
Oh, my God.
You'd rather insult yourself on the book.
It's going back to a larger point
that I'm trying to win against Sarah.
I mean, I've already won it.
I don't think that's true.
And all the listeners know it.
That's true.
No, I don't think so.
I know they do.
Oh, God.
But what's the book's name, by the way, Johnny?
I feel like it's called the Lynn Brodden.
The Lynn Brodden.
Oh, you did say it was called the Lynn Brodden.
The Lynn Brodden.
Which is a book I started reading accidentally.
I swear around the same time that I myself
hired a nanny for the first time.
Oh, no.
And then I was like, oh, no.
What if she thinks this is something
I'm doing out of fear of her?
She's a surprise.
So I buried it under a pile of other books.
But that might have even been more suspicious.
One day, it's out the next eight days.
It has a dust cover on it.
Wow, he went to Sidwell, friends.
Lynn Burke.
What is-- oh, is this one of the private schools
that you know about from your wife?
It's a private school I know about from someone I worked with.
Oh, OK.
It's near me.
It's near where I lived.
Yeah.
Oh.
I--
It's Quaker.
Millikid, who went there, but he went to my school.
Because he got expelled from there.
It is Quaker, yes.
Yeah, yeah.
In Bethesda.
Wow.
This is what the friends--
Interesting.
And he shares a birthday with Meg.
Different year.
Huh.
Different year.
Yeah.
Well, a lot of New Jersey representation.
Well, I don't know.
I'm sorry.
I don't think I have anything else to say about this part
to say funny.
Yeah, I don't.
This was a hard book for me, truly.
It's just-- it's a great book if this is the type of book
you want to read is really what I think.
And I get--
I kind of think that that complaint that that person had
about that plane almost betrays the research
that he did do because he knew that it existed in some form.
If I understood her comment correctly,
it never took flight.
But it's like he's so in the depths of the research
that he's finding this plane that didn't take flight.
And maybe he just kind of liked the name of the plane.
Or--
Yeah, I just didn't bother me because I'm like, maybe he says,
in his alternative history, starting in 1939, it did take--
you know what I mean?
I don't know.
That doesn't bother me so much.
It's like impressive enough.
Well, it all bothered me.
It all bothered me.
All of the fake comments are going to learn.
I do more so think that this book is more of just like a coming
of age story.
And I feel like if you come into it knowing that,
and that like, oh, it's an interesting setting for it,
to me, it's a--
It's sell-- or not sells it, but it's not like misleading.
That's a good read.
Because I do think it was a sweet--
Oh, yeah.
I liked the little boy--
Yeah, like the swastika on the cover really
doesn't make you think you're following a 10-year-old boy around.
Yeah, and a lot against America.
The plot is like something mentioned towards the end
and is not even like real.
It's all just like maybe somebody thinks
this might have happened.
So it's like, it's a little misleading enough.
But who is America, if not our nation's children,
the 10-year-olds?
Yeah.
I'm actually coming around on it more because it's also like,
yeah, that's what happens is when a fascist leader takes
over, like people--
unfortunately, just kind of have to go about their daily lives.
That is true.
And you have to think about--
This isn't a joke.
You are thinking about things like your stamp collection day-to-day.
But the overall thing that's going on in the country
is like infesting everything that happens.
And that is?
Yes.
Yeah, that's true.
And within the book, one of the things you noticed
is that they brought up is kind of like the Jews turning
against other Jews because they don't want to be associated
with the Jew being that the government's--
and that was a big issue because the FBI was following his cousin
and then his dad.
And that was part of the reason the dad was fired
from the grocery store.
Even though it was run by a Jew, they were like,
we just don't want to be associated.
And I do feel like that kind of stuff kind of happens
to this day.
I don't know.
I don't want to talk about a ton of current events
because I don't think that's usually our vibe.
But there was a recent New York Times article I read about.
Some plant--
and I can't remember.
I want to say Nebraska, but I'm sure that's not the right time.
But there was an ice raid.
And 50% of the workers there were either taken away
or they were too scared to return because of the raid.
And then production plummeted, 70%.
And it's just insane.
And they're just like the owner was just like,
yeah, I can't hire anyone.
Nobody wants these jobs.
Like, and we were doing everything right.
They were using-- they had.
They were using so stolen social security or whatever.
So they passed the checks.
But it's like, I'm so afraid of this happening again.
I don't know what to do.
And so you can see them definitely starting
to probably not hire anybody that they think, oh,
they come from this descent.
They have this accent.
I'm afraid they might be illegal.
I don't know.
You can easily see where that kind of stuff starts
to the slippery slope happens.
And this is so fun, though.
You guys?
We're good.
I'm drinking a margarita.
It's a junshine.
And whatever.
[INAUDIBLE]
Well, I guess, on to Sabrina's point of whatever
is going on in the world, whatever is going on in your life,
things do just carry on.
You do think about your little stamp collection.
And I remember this year, it's been a tough year
for a lot of people.
But there was a morning I took an early morning walk.
And I was just up early, walk in the dog,
and just like, 6 o'clock in the morning.
You see people outside, opening up their stores
and their restaurants and loading in boxes,
getting the early morning delivery.
Sometimes there's just something to see other people just
going on because they have to, because it's 6 o'clock.
And the bodega opens at 6 o'clock.
So I have my loading boxes that you're just like, OK, yeah.
And I also can go do the things I need to do today.
Yeah, you can just pick up this dog's share.
You know, first thing is what I'm going to do.
Did you have to get it tested?
No, I didn't just had to pick it up like a good citizen.
I always do.
And less, I forgot a dog bag.
And then I desperately search for one.
Or for trash.
Or for trash on the screen, which I have done.
More times than I'd like to say.
Yeah, that bag looks pretty clean.
So that's what I do.
Oh, Doritos bag.
Oh, yeah, Doritos bag.
Someone was eating out of that.
That's fine.
I'll put my hand on that.
That's good enough for the poop.
All right.
This is an ad for cats, everybody.
No way.
No, I would say that I would never think you missing it.
It's like, I love the dogs.
I'm not a geno care.
If I'm putting my hand in a mystery bag to pick up their poop.
Yeah, it's nothing.
I don't-- it's not like I live with poop in my house.
Or get a backyard.
I would never want to live with shit in my house just hanging out
with children.
Yeah, with children.
Well, the shit goes in a cat.
Cats want to use the bell.
Cats use a toilet.
They're toilet.
That's not a toilet.
It's something you put your feet in.
Pan, toilet.
Your hands are heated.
You call a bonk or anything could be a toilet.
The ground could be a toilet based on your definition.
Listen, in desperate times, a mesh trash can can become one.
It sounds like you're speaking for me.
I'm scared.
I don't like this at all.
I'm just saying.
Well, for one-pens day--
Craziest place, everyone's peaked.
The street in London, on New Year's Eve in an alley.
And then I watched a bunch of other women were doing it,
because there were no bathrooms.
And then I watched a woman behind me
who was really drunk, reached down and grabbed
a scrap of paper from the ground and used it
to wipe.
And I said, no!
[LAUGHTER]
That's upsetting.
That is sad.
All right.
Should we do good news?
Why is there a news game?
[LAUGHTER]
I just think, you can't ask the question.
I jump in.
[LAUGHTER]
Sorry, Sarah's moving it along.
Damn it.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead.
What do you want to say?
No, what do you want to say?
Clare, politely ask me a question.
Everyone, please.
Don't be rude.
It's weird as place you've ever peed.
Go ahead.
I feel like it was just to you.
I didn't have-- I didn't feel it was a question for us all.
She did say everyone, I believe.
Yeah.
I didn't.
I was choosing to--
I was choosing to not take--
I mean, just to clarify, if my answer wasn't the mesh trash can,
that would be like a bad and worse place
than I had gone to the bathroom.
I don't know.
In my bed.
That's embarrassing.
The other ones were funny.
Yeah, you're old though, right?
Yeah, I really old.
OK.
I was pregnant.
In high school, we'd hang out at the 7/11.
And there was like an alley.
People would go to pee in when you needed to pee.
But I was not going to the right place.
And was just pissing in someone's front yard.
And I was like, I guess this is where everyone's going.
And they've been calling this an alley.
What was this?
You went to a 7/11--
A front yard.
To hang out.
There were no bathrooms.
And-- but you were there so long.
Yeah, you'd sort of have like one little water bottle of vodka
that you passed around or something.
This is a disaster.
You were drinking?
OK.
Where were the workers at the 7/11?
Inside the 7/11.
Do you hang out outside of it?
Did other people not do this?
I didn't.
But--
Speaking of--
Last night, we ran into a wine store in New Hampshire
to buy a bottle of wine.
And I had forgotten my ID.
And I felt like they were going to carve me.
So I was like, I should just go out to the car.
And Meg was like, she didn't understand what I was saying.
So she was just loudly like, no, come to the counter with me.
And I was like, well, there's no escaping this now.
And then the woman was like, nope.
Can't sell it to you.
Meg had her ID.
And I was like, I have a photo of my ID.
And then she was like, nope.
That doesn't do it.
I was like, can I leave?
And she was like, nope.
That's too late.
She was like, OK, don't sell us this bottle of wine
because you think I might be under 21.
I was so mad.
But then we went back today to get the bottle of wine.
Because we're getting as a thank you for--
Andrew in the--
I don't see it anywhere else.
I can't believe.
The prices are so good.
And I had my ID.
They scanned it.
And she was like, that sound means this is a fake ID.
And I was like, it's not--
No.
So she remembered you.
No, it was a different lady.
And she was actually nice.
But she was like, I'll scan it again.
But that's the sound of not a valid ID.
And I was like, this is my real ID that I was just bullied
by the government into getting so that I can fly on an airplane
without my passport.
And I-- oh, and then she was like, do you have your other ID?
I was like, what do you mean my other ID?
Like my passport to buy a bottle of wine?
And it was--
First certificate.
Did she scan it?
What happened when she scanned it again?
It made the sound like it was fake.
And I mean, she believed me that I was 36 years old.
But she did like a little bit.
She was like, you're lucky I believe you otherwise.
And I have to confiscate this.
And I was like, what would I do if on my way--
The start of a seven hour drive, you confiscate
my actual driver's license in a state that I don't live in.
That would have been so pissed.
Yeah, I would want to call and be like, why was I trying?
Why would this not work in New York?
Like, what?
I don't know.
Somebody's got to know that that's happening.
Because that's a really fucked up.
I'm going to make some calls.
OK, good, good, good.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
All right, are you guys ready for five star good reviews?
If you can find, Annie.
[LAUGHTER]
Oh.
[LAUGHTER]
Claire, did you grab any?
I'm not.
We're going to go--
OK, I guess five five.
I've got one.
I found one.
And it says the entire review has been hidden because of spoilers.
This one?
OK.
So I'm going to--
People are coward.
I'm going to press show full review.
And it says, I cannot tell a lie, George Washington.
I just don't know how to get it.
OK.
I don't get it.
I don't know why that happens.
That's great.
I don't get it, but I don't hate it.
I don't like it, actually.
I don't get it.
It was interesting.
It was an interesting--
Just to say we have a lot of people praising it.
And so it's nice to get a crazy watch on someone who's crazy.
Yeah.
Somebody said, the New York Times has two aflop Roths.
All right, P. Novels on their list of 100 best novels
of the 21st century.
The human stain in the plot against America.
Many Roth fans do not think this is one of his top books,
but I do.
It remains very relevant to the rise of fascism in the US
and everywhere else.
And then he basically just talks about the book for a while.
And the reason to go into that.
And then he recommends some other things.
And then it says, it really can't happen here, can it?
Who are the crazies rising to or already in power?
OK, I don't even understand that last question.
Sort of get what he's generally going for,
but the wording sort of--
Yeah.
That's a lot of people.
Five stars.
Oops.
I never wrote a review of this work.
This book, I must have read it before being
a goodreads member.
A loss that Roth has retired from writing,
but I can understand let the guy relax.
She wrote this in 2023 and he was dead.
We can't believe it.
I'm laughing at this because what's the scenario
that led this person to writing this review?
Were they like, I wonder what exactly I said in my review
of it?
Let me look it up.
Wow.
I mean, there's one more sentence.
And she just says, at least Walter says,
his contribution to contemporary fiction
has been well beyond amazing.
And that's it.
So it wasn't unnecessary review, I would say.
I love it.
Didn't need it.
We love it.
All right.
I think it's going to be a lot of time.
All right.
So it's like when the kids were little in this book, probably,
was a little rule they probably had.
I don't know.
That could be.
How about this?
One more question, read the book.
Did the mother and father remind anybody of their own mother
and father?
No.
Yeah, me neither.
No.
They were.
That was wondering if that's what turned us all into good news.
You're doing too much to tell me stuff.
Because I was like, I don't know.
It just seemed like, wow, these are such good parents
trying to do the right thing.
I don't really--
I love my parents, but I don't really--
You know, sort of turned into a huge insult
on the back end of that comment.
So I will say, I love my parents.
I love my mom very much.
They're great parents.
They did remind me of the parents in this book.
They did not--
For many various--
Oh, they did not.
--different kinds of reasons.
I just thought the dad was so righteous and trying
to do the right thing and making decisions that maybe were--
like he was always trying to be morally correct in a way
that I was like, I don't recognize.
The only thing I kind of recognized
was when the dad got really loud at the dinner
at one of the Washington cafeteria's.
And the mom was like, please.
Oh, yeah, yeah, that was nice.
Just let it go.
And he was like, no.
I was like, that's my two second dad's hair.
I was like, maybe a little.
That was a good dad moment.
That was something that was-- I found very refreshing
after all of the books that we read, where it's like the husband
is nice and cares about the mom.
He's like, decent to the woman.
Oh, there's a cheating subplot.
This is so weird.
Where was the hot red--
See, he's a murderer.
Is he a murderer?
Yeah, it's confusing.
It's because we usually--
It's hard to follow.
Somebody who's just good.
My focus was on--
It's all over the place.
[LAUGHTER]
All right, we have-- all right, I guess it's time for our hate
rates.
OK.
OK, I'll start.
I'm going to give it a 4.5 out of 5.
I probably would have given it a 5 out of 5 when I first
read it in 2006.
But time has passed.
And like I said, it doesn't hit the same.
But it's long, but I thought I was still very, very good
for a mean book, club book, for a 0.5 out of 5.
I'm going to go 3 out of 5.
I think I could even go lower, honestly.
As a book, I mean, it's worlds above any mean book, club book.
I accept, of course, the secret.
My god.
What is this?
What is it?
Why are you giving it 3 out of 5?
It's a little bit to our recommender.
OK.
You know, I'm sticking it to you, Miles.
This book is too good for us to have read, I think.
And I think it was very well written.
But it wasn't for me.
So it does lose points for just my personal rating.
It's not going to be that high.
I don't want my algorithm to start feeding me more things
like this.
I do not want that.
Also, there was one stray, weird scene in the book.
The Nash.
Yes.
I was going to say the National Geographic comment.
No.
No, no.
It was with--
It was the Ann when he gets a little tiny little boy hard on.
He's hugging his aunt.
And he talks about his acorn penis feeling it.
Oh.
I didn't need that.
I don't care.
Also, I don't--
then because everything was written in such a realistic way.
And I thought that that was done so well.
That I was like, oh my god.
Do little boys hugging their aunt, get erections.
And now, and I need to know that.
Or I know that because I have two little boys.
And I just needed to be told that--
I just needed to be aware of--
I took it upon him.
I took it on my expectation set.
I need my expectation set.
I didn't ever want that information.
And now--
Whether it's true--
You could have a little boy some day, Sabrina.
You're going to need to know about us a little later.
I don't--
I don't.
And I won't--
Yeah, even think about it.
Also--
All right, we'll see.
Also, you're--
Like, this is--
Oh my god.
My little boy is--
Yeah, that was my--
I mean, I'm a--
--claught--
--right child.
Oh my god.
Oh no.
Oh, you're right.
That would be the disappointing part.
It's everyone's worst nightmare, I know.
It was my side.
It's like--
Oh, not your uncle.
Your--
Yeah.
Oh god.
So that's where it lost points for me.
And--
Sure.
OK.
Yeah.
And it just had no business being here.
Who does it think it is being on Meenball Club?
I'm going to say that Claire should go next.
[LAUGHTER]
All right.
Interesting.
I think I'm going to do a 3 1/2 out of 5.
It was boring to me.
I think that some of the details, like,
are you kidding me, stamp collection?
Can we pick something like slightly more interesting?
Like, I feel like baseball cards would
be a little bit more interesting.
I feel like--
For you.
For any--
--stamps.
Wait, Claire, you're going to slowly
talk about a tiny picture.
Describe a tiny picture to me.
When they did sightseeing in DC,
it's like, well, what could be more boring than sightseeing
in DC is having someone recount it,
mothering like--
[LAUGHTER]
So I don't feel like you did himself any favors
with the details that could have been slightly more
interesting.
It was boring, and it was long, but it was a real block.
So it gets points for that.
Yeah.
I can't see points for that.
All right, I got you.
Yeah.
I think 3.5 sounds right.
If I weren't already reading it for me in book club
and kind of predisposed to already sort of be mad,
that I'm reading it, I think it could have scored higher.
This is a book that, honestly, really deserves a long, leisurely
listen.
That you're just kind of--
I think this book has some moments
that you could really sit in and let it impact you,
but I wasn't going to allow for that.
And so that hurt the book, and that is Philip Roth's fault.
And--
It's filly.
The stamps are what took it down, at least at point,
if not the entire 1.5 points.
Wow, I can't believe it.
Nobody is talking about how upset they were about the person.
[LAUGHTER]
I do want to say--
I want to circle back.
A way from Burton again and not ever
talk about the Burton thing again.
And I do want to circle back to Miles and say,
I do appreciate the recommend because I think this was
a really different book.
I think it adds a lot to the season.
I think we've got to have a good one in every now and again.
And--
Palette Cleanser.
And you know what?
I actually think it did kind of give us a lot to discuss.
Such as whether this was historical fiction
or an alternate reality fiction.
OK.
And what did you determine?
We determined that this is an alternate reality fiction,
as opposed to the Lindbergh, which is a historical fiction.
I think we determined there both historical fiction
and just that also the plot against America
as a subgenre of historical fiction.
It's an alternate--
So like you can edit that out and just leave it on the--
what I say and like it sounds like a mic.
That's for good cause.
It's not going to fit.
It's not going to match.
And Blake, I feel like that was a joke at it.
And you can keep--
[LAUGHTER]
All right guys, I guess it's time for Little Fucker of the Cast.
All right, I'll go first.
It's John and I.
[LAUGHTER]
John trying to bring in this other book,
talking about it for a while.
[LAUGHTER]
Just saying she doesn't like historical fiction,
which clearly she gets off on it when it's about a little baby
murdered.
So John--
OK, obviously my name is Sarah.
I had so many details from the book correct.
And then instead of just listening to the cast
and talking like a person, she was like secretly the entire time
trying to catch me on something I got wrong.
So she could jump in with like, oh by the way,
did you say the baby was found on the estate?
Actually, it sounds like he was found in a neighboring town
ship.
So I didn't care for that.
I'll care for the little fact check.
I especially didn't care that she was right.
That made me even more angry as Sarah.
Yeah.
Did that happen?
Did you get that one at once?
I didn't-- look things up.
Where was it?
Just the one at the top.
I didn't look it up when it happened.
It just-- I was-- happened.
Information came across my eyes.
And I had to bring it up because it was different than what
was told to me.
I, too, I'm going to have to vote for Sarah.
And well, OK, here's what happened.
I was getting vulnerable.
I prefaced a statement with, look, I know this is going
to make me sound really dumb.
And Clara, the statement was basically
that I had no idea who Charles Lindbergh was.
That's just not information that was--
I knew it was a person who was in history.
Could I have told you a single thing about the man?
No.
And--
I revealed that information, but I prefaced it with like,
this is going to make me sound dumb.
And then Sarah was basically like, Jesus, you fucking idiot.
How could you not know?
And then she was like ashamed of me and embarrassed for me
all at once.
Yeah.
And then she--
She was like--
She was like, oh, this whole time.
She was like, she was like--
Do you prefer history about XYZ?
And I was like, no, I just don't like history, Sarah.
Well, you said you knew who Amelia Earhart was, that's why.
Everyone knows who Amelia Earhart is.
OK, well, some people--
All right, you know what?
Yeah, OK.
We can go.
I was late, but there's a lot of evidence against Sarah.
And she didn't really get into the PP question.
Yep, which is--
Oh, yeah.
She's like a fun tangent.
She not only did it in a participant when she did participate.
She was very dismissive with her answer.
I don't know, my bad.
She's like--
She's just felt like you're insulting the whole premise
of having a fun little PP tangent.
So I'm going to vote for Sarah.
All right, fine.
Maybe some of us just don't have an interesting place.
We've peed, apparently.
What are you insane saying that?
Is it one of them, too?
Look, I was trying to get back to the book.
All right, fine.
A little faster of the cast, OK?
Oh, boy.
The season is looking good for old J-bone.
This is maybe the first one, but you still got a vote, OK, Johnna?
You didn't get it way on Skate.
Get a--
All right, and get three.
All right.
Well, and the prettiest princess--
I'm not fair.
She's a--
Oh, this is the last one I've seen.
She's an amazing Sabrina.
I think it should be me today.
I'm not one of them.
Because she ousted herself from it.
This isn't safe.
And I've long housed yourself for a minute, and then say it's better.
And this is also just--
It's so you can't really come in.
I'm saying you don't want to get it.
So you can't--
No, nobody gets it.
Nobody gets it.
Sabrina, nobody wanted it.
The princess of the hug.
Yes.
We do this in Southern Judgeable By its cover.
It's unbelievable.
It's ridiculous.
We have time for this.
We could do Judgeable By its cover.
This had a swastika on it.
Yeah.
We made it feel like it was a different book.
That's for sure.
It made it feel like it was scarier.
Yeah.
Still scarier.
I guess it was scarier.
I do need a different way.
I'm going to get it in a different way.
In a different way.
Yeah.
Little more slow burn.
OK.
I'll scarier a step off.
Wrap that line.
Yeah.
Oh, perhaps.
Yes, you're right.
So I'll be being burned alive.
All right.
So please, Patreon, become a patron.
If you have any suggestions, please email us.
Please check out us on all of our socials.
And next week-- what the fuck are we reading next week, guys?
OK.
And next week, what are we reading?
Who?
My.
Who?
My.
Who?
My.
Who?
My.
Spencer Johnson.
I feel like I've seen it so slow that you could have gotten
on my pattern.
[LAUGHTER]
It was true.
So my brain doesn't work like that.
Too painful.
It was.
It was like--
And she was like, my Spencer Johnson.
I wanted to move on from it.
I didn't want to keep talking about the book.
OK.
We have to talk about it so much next episode.
All right.
We're so excited.
So thank you for joining us.
What?
So thank you for joining us.
Who's so--
What is so thank you for joining us?
So good.
Bye, show.
So Patreon.
So socials.
So fun.
All right.
Guys, let's get the fuck out of here.
Bye, guys.
Bye.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[MUSIC]