Hello again, friend.
Welcome back to part 2 of my Chilling Mother's Day Collaboration Special.
Before we embark on our journey again, I want to take a moment to reflect on the origins
of this holiday.
To truly understand the history of Mother's Day, we must go back thousands of years to
the ancient world.
The earliest known celebrations of mothers and motherhood can be traced back to the annual
spring festival in ancient Greece, honoring Rhea, the mother of gods.
But it wasn't just the Greeks, the Romans also had a festival called matronalia, where
husbands and children would shower their wives and mothers with gifts and flowers.
This tradition carried on for centuries in various forms, eventually influencing a Christian
holiday known as Mothering Sunday.
Mothering Sunday was celebrated in Europe, particularly in the United Kingdom, on the
fourth Sunday of Lent.
This was a time when people would return to their mother church, the church where they
were baptized and grew up attending.
Families would reunite, and children would often bring gifts, such as flowers or small
tokens for their mothers.
But what about modern mothers' day?
For that we must turn to the early 20th century, in the efforts of a woman named Anna Jarvis.
Anna Jarvis was the daughter of Anne Reeves Jarvis, a social activist and community organizer
who worked hard to improve the lives of women and families.
After her mother's death in 1905, Anna sought to create a day that would honor the sacrifice
as mothers made for their children.
In 1908, Anna held the first mother's day celebration at a Methodist church in Graften
West Virginia.
By 1912, she had successfully established the Mother's Day International Association and
began campaigning to have Mother's Day recognized as an official holiday.
Her hard work paid off, and on May 9, 1914, President Woodrow Wilson signed a proclamation
designating the second Sunday in May as a National holiday to honor mothers.
Mother's Day had officially become a part of American culture.
Anna Jarvis envisioned Mother's Day as a time for families to come together and spend
quality time with their mothers, writing heartfelt letters and expressing their love and gratitude.
However, she became disillusioned with the commercialization of the holiday as a grew in popularity.
Despite her disappointment, Mother's Day continued to spread across the globe, with countries
adopting their own unique traditions and customs.
So as we celebrate Mother's Day this year, let's remember its roots and honor the sacrifices
of Mother's Everywhere and take the time to truly appreciate the love and dedication
they show us every day.
Now let's get into the adventure.
We wake up the next morning in the once grand mansion, now overgrown with ivy and shrouded
in darkness.
Her broken windows and cracked walls whisper tales of long forgotten family secrets.
It's here that we meet Esther who tells a shocking story from her podcast once upon a crime.
Diane Downs was a 27-year-old mother of three in the spring of 1983 when she arrived at a
Springfield Oregon Hospital emergency room.
She screamed for help, saying a man had attempted to carjack her on a rural country road, and
when she refused to give him her car, he shot her three children sleeping in the backseat.
The horror of such a random act of violence against innocent children shocked the community
and the police, but once suspicion for raise that their mother was the shooter, the question
became why.
What would cause a mother to murder her children?
The answer was as cold-blooded as it was shocking.
Diane Downs was in love with love.
Perhaps this was because, as she claimed, she was raised with a strict and controlling father
who showed her little affection and a passive mother who put her husband's needs before her
childrens.
Diane, born in 1955, was the first to five children born to Wesley and Willedine Fredrickson.
Diana's siblings were raised in a conservative Baptist home.
Her father worked for the U.S. Postal Service, and the family moved often as he was transferred
to other positions.
By the time she was in high school, they were living in Phoenix, Arizona.
Diane said she felt ignored by her mother and criticized by her father.
As a result, she grew up with a desperate need for love and affection.
Diane didn't make friends easily and described herself as an ugly duckling as a child.
She recalled being teased or ignored by her classmates.
Even worse, was the ridicule in bullying she experienced in grade school.
Diane blossomed into a pretty teen with a cute figure that she soon realized made her
popular with the boys.
For the first time, Diane felt seen.
Even better, she felt a sense of power over the teenage boys who sought her attention.
She gained a reputation at Moon Valley High as a flirt, but it was Steve Downs who won
her heart.
He was wild and rebellious, and Diane was instantly attracted to him.
By 16, they were an item and began a sexual relationship.
When her parents found out, they forbade their daughter to see Steve Downs, but it was only
after graduation that the couple parted.
Steve joined the Navy, and Diane was accepted at a Bible College in California, so they went
their separate ways.
Diane began relationships with several boys she met in college, trying to fill the void
left by Steve's departure.
After two semesters, she was kicked out of school for promiscuity and returned to Phoenix.
Steve returned to town, and in 1973, when they were both 18, they married against their parents
wishes.
Diane wanted to start a family right away.
She romanticized what it would be like to have children.
She often expressed a desire to have babies because she'd finally have someone who would
love her unconditionally.
Diane didn't say she wanted someone to love unconditionally.
Instead, she believed a child would fulfill all her emotional needs.
Soon after they're wedding, however, Steve Downs told Diane that he had changed his mind.
He didn't want kids right away.
Maybe in a few years he offered.
She was furious.
She accused him of never loving her.
Her feelings of rejection grew when she discovered Steve was cheating on her.
Diane became obsessed with the idea of having a baby to fulfill her need for love and affection.
She stopped using birth control and soon found herself pregnant.
She was thrilled.
Her daughter, Christy, was born on October 7, 1974.
Diane said she experienced real love for the first time in her life when her daughter was
born.
But the reality of having a baby soon set in and Diane became exhausted and disillusioned
about being a mother.
She and Stephen frequently argued about the stress of raising a child with limited resources.
Still, Diane continued to chase the high she got from being pregnant and giving birth.
While pregnant, the pretty blonde who still looked like a teenager received a lot of attention.
Strangers congratulated her.
Her family asked about her health and gave advice.
She lapped it all up and craved more.
Diane became pregnant again, and her daughter Cheryl Lynn was born in 1976.
Cheryl was colloquy and cried constantly.
Diane grew impatient and frustrated that she wasn't feeling the unconditional love she
so desperately craved.
Her relationship with her husband became strained to the breaking point and she decided to leave
him.
So the timing was terrible when she discovered she was pregnant for the third time.
Unwilling to stay in the relationship, Diane felt her only option was to terminate the pregnancy.
Afterwards she left her marriage taking two-year-old Christy and nine-month-old Cheryl with her.
Finding it hard to parent and provide for her children alone, she and Stephen Reckoncile
and break up several times over the next two years.
And expliquably, Diane decided she wanted another child.
Steve had since had a vasectomy and she asked him to have it reversed but he refused.
Now working outside of the home, Diane began sleeping with several of her co-workers.
She purposely set out to get pregnant by one of her lovers.
Steve found out and got into a physical altercation with the man, but it was too late.
Diane was pregnant.
Stephen Daniel Downs was born on December 29, 1979.
Although he wasn't his biological father, Steve raised the boy they called Danny as his
own.
Diane was an inconsistent mother to her children.
While stressed and unhappy, she was impatient, angry and sometimes neglectful.
When happy, she doated on her children and took them on special outings.
She played with them as if she were a child herself and called them her best friends.
The kids became confused and sometimes fearful of Diane.
Each mother would they experience today, the nice one who loved them or the angry one who
yelled and punished them.
Diane began working as a male carrier at the Chandler Post Office and started sleeping with
the series of her co-workers.
Witnesses say that with Steve often gone or while he and Diane were on the outs, Diane
would be out with one boyfriend or another and put her social life in front of her children.
She kicked her husband out again and moved her current boyfriend in with her.
He was also a single parent and he brought his two daughters, a few years older than Diane's
children with him.
This arrangement didn't last long.
Steve was constantly dropping by which was awkward for everyone and Diane's boyfriend didn't
like how she treated her children.
Her kids seemed like a pain in the ass to her, he said.
She felt that kids were inferior.
They weren't even allowed in the living room.
She called her kids vulgar and demeaning names he added.
When Diane began lashing out at his daughters as well, he left.
Diane sometimes left the children alone altogether.
During these times, Steve would step in and care for the children until Diane returned.
She was always a person who needed an enormous amount of attention, a bottomless pit of need.
This need resulted in her applying to become a surrogate mother.
She was paid to conceive and carry a child for a couple who was experiencing fertility issues.
She gave birth to a baby girl in 1982.
Diane received $10,000 and was even interviewed for a Washington Post story about surrogate
parenting.
The attention and accolades she received meant more to Diane than the money, but she put
it to good use, purchasing a mobile home in Chandler and New furniture.
She talked incessantly to her co-workers about her experience as a surrogate mother.
These people needed me.
It made me somebody, Diane said.
When she returned to work at the Post Office after the baby's birth, she set her sights on
one man in particular.
Robert Nickerbacher or Nick, as Diane called him, was a married man with whom she began
an affair in the summer of 1982.
He tried to keep things discreet, but Diane immediately fell for him, and everyone knew she
was not only sleeping with Nick, but obsessed with him.
He told her he didn't want kids around while they were together, saying it was wrong.
She accommodated this request, pawning the children off to their father, neighbors or other
relatives, while she was engaged in her secret rendezvous with Nick.
She began urging Nick to leave his wife and marry her, but he made it clear he had no
intention of doing so.
She ignored this, believing he'd come around when he realized that it was her he loved.
She used sex to keep him coming back, and even while he protested that he would never commit
to her, he continued the affair.
Diane's mobile home burned down just six months after she purchased it, and Arson was suspected.
However, she received an insurance settlement for a few thousand dollars and used a portion
of it to lease an apartment.
She listed both herself and Nick on the lease.
Nick had finally had enough.
His wife had caught wind of the affair and gave him an ultimatum.
It was either her or Diane.
Nick told Diane he couldn't see her anymore and broke things off.
He said he still loved his wife and was working to repair his marriage.
He also reminded her that he'd made it clear he didn't want children.
He'd had to have a sect meet early in his marriage to prevent this from happening.
That's how sure he was about this decision.
Diane was the mother of three, and Nick said this alone put him off ever marrying her
or offering her a commitment.
Diane went ballistic, calling and harassing Nick and his wife nonstop after he stopped seeing
her.
She even pounded on Nick's door, insisting he talked to her.
The couple finally left the state for a long vacation to escape her.
Still thinking she could win him back, Diane packed up her kids and moved to be near her parents
who were now living in Oregon.
It was Diane's plan that once she was settled, she'd contact Nick to whom she was sure
would come to his senses once her threat to leave became real.
He could then join her in Oregon to escape his wife.
Diane believed that she could get him alone.
He could be talked into marrying her.
In April of 1983, she arrived in Springfield, Oregon with her three children.
Just a few weeks later, Diane Downs would arrive at the emergency department of a Springfield
hospital and announce that her children had been shot and were dying in the backseat of
her car.
Diane Downs called Robert Nickerbocker the man she was obsessed with once she arrived in
Springfield, Oregon.
She thought he'd miss her and want her back, but Nick told Diane it was over.
He wasn't ever moving to Oregon to be with her, period.
Not one to give up easily, Diane made one last effort to convince him.
A week later, she returned to Arizona and surprised him at work.
She made an excuse about needing to return a gold chain he'd given her.
She launched into a speech about her love for him and all the plans she'd made for them
to be together.
I told her I wasn't going to Oregon Nick told investigators later.
I told her I just didn't want to be a daddy.
Then he drove off in his mill truck.
That was the last time he saw her.
A few days later, on the evening of May 1983, a small red sports car screeched to a halt
at an emergency room entrance of the Mackenzie will limit hospital in Springfield.
Nurses came running and saw a young blonde woman standing outside her car.
Someone just shot my kids, she told them.
When they peered into the car, they saw two small bodies slumped in the back seat.
As they rushed them to the trauma center, the woman called out, "Get Cheryl, she's on
the floor, she hasn't moved at all."
A nurse peered in and saw another small body, but this one was on the floor in the front seat
on the passenger side.
The last child found was the most critically wounded.
Two bullet holes were found in seven-year-old Christie's back.
Emergency room doctors worked frantically to clear her air passages and found blood clots
blocking her throat.
Her blood was already clotting, suggesting that her wounds had occurred some time ago.
She was connected to a heart monitor, but a heartbeat could not be detected.
The child was pronounced dead on arrival.
The other two children were alive, but just barely.
Eight-year-old Christie had suffered two bullet wounds to the left side of her chest,
when it exited her back and when was still in her body.
She registered no blood pressure, was quickly losing blood and was on the verge of death.
Her heart stopped as doctors worked to clear a blood clot from her lungs.
They quickly shocked her heart and inserted a line to infuse more blood.
Miraculously, her heart started to beat again and she was rushed into surgery.
The little blonde boy, Danny, was just a baby, just three years old.
He was the only one of the children who was conscious when they arrived.
He continued to cry softly as the doctors worked over him.
If found a bullet hole, a fraction of an inch from his spinal column.
The bullet had been fired at close range.
Their mother also had a wound.
The nurse noticed a brightly colored beach towel wrapped around her arm from her elbow
to her wrist.
A bullet wound on the outside of her arm was almost halfway between the elbow and wrist.
It was not life-threatening.
It was cleaned, disinfected, and wrapped in a bandage.
Diane Downs, age 27, was questioned by police about the shooting.
She said she'd been driving home from a friend's house with her three children, Christie H.A.T.
Cheryl H.7, and Danny H.3, around 9.30 pm.
She said she was driving on Old Mohawk Road because the children liked to take the scenic
route.
Old Mohawk Road was located in a rural area and saw little traffic, especially in the
evenings.
Diane said she came upon somebody standing in the middle of the road.
He looked like he needed help, she said, so she stopped the car and got out, taking the
keys with her.
As he approached, he told Diane he wanted her car and she'd refused.
The man she described as a bushy-haired stranger leaned into her car and began shooting at
her kids.
She tried to pull him away, but he shot her in the arm.
She pretended to throw her car keys into the brush on the side of the road, and when
he ran to retrieve them, Diane said she jumped in the car and drove off as fast as she
could go to get help.
Detectives who interviewed the young mother first struck by her odd behavior.
Her kids were in surgery, fighting for their lives after being shot by a psychotic stranger
multiple times.
Yet Diane downstremained calm, not crying, not screaming, or hysterical.
She recounted events almost matter of factly, even smiling and giggling at times.
Her stories seemed implausible as well.
They were sightseeing at 9.30 pm in the dark.
And why on earth would a woman with three small children not only pull over and stop for a
male stranger, but also leave her car to approach him?
It made no sense to them that an armed car-jacker would shoot the children first, who were no
threat to him, but didn't attempt to shoot Diane until she physically confronted him.
Detectives watched as Diane was informed that her daughter Cheryl was dead.
They saw almost no reaction from her at all upon hearing this news.
She was then informed about the condition of her two other children.
Doctors told her they were cautiously optimistic about Danny and explained the damage he'd suffered.
You mean it missed his heart, Diane asked, sounding surprised?
Christie was still in recovery after surgery when Diane turned to the doctor and said, "I
know that Christie has suffered brain damage and I don't want you to sustain her life."
The doctor was outraged by her statement.
That was very unusual, he said, and inappropriate.
Christie would recover, but would have long-term issues with her ability to speak.
She could not speak for several weeks due to her injuries, and doctors suspected the
trauma she'd suffered from the violent crime exacerbated this condition.
Three-year-old Danny survived his injuries, but was left paralyzed from the chest down,
and confined to a wheelchair the rest of his life.
This quickly determined that the forensic evidence did not match what Diane told them about
the shooting.
No other sightings of a bushy-haired stranger were found, even after an extensive search.
Nor were any footprints, tire tracks, or other evidence that suggested the presence of a
second adult at the crime scene.
More importantly, no blood spatter was found on the driver's side of the door, nor any
gunpowder residue, which should have been detected if the stranger had shot the kids as
Diane had described.
The evidence all pointed to Diane down as the person who shot the children.
They discovered that she'd lied when questioned about owning a gun, specifically a 22-caliber
handgun, the type of weapon used in the shooting.
Both her ex-husband Steve and her lover Nick told police that Diane did own a handgun.
Nick told investigators he saw the 22 in the trunk of her car in the night before she left
for Oregon.
Investigators had found 22-caliber shell casings lying in blood in the backseat of her
car.
The gun was never found, however, investigators were able to match tool marks on the casings
found at the crime scene, with cartridges found in the Arizona home where Diane had lived.
The matching tool marks proved to investigators that the bullets found in Arizona had been
in the same weapon used to shoot the children.
After an extensive investigation, Diane Downs was finally put on trial on May 10, 1984.
She had been out on bail until February of 1984 when she was formally charged with one
counter-merder, two counts of attempted murder, and two counts of assault in the first degree
and booked into jail.
While free, Diane met another man, had a fling, and became pregnant.
She was far along in her pregnancy when she would finally appear before a jury.
Prosecutors were worried that jurors would have difficulty convicting a pregnant woman
on the verge of giving birth.
But the prosecutor's star witness sealed Diane's fate, almost exactly one year after she
was shot.
Christie Downs, now nine years old, took the stand to testify against her mother.
Christie looked very small and frail for her age and still had trouble speaking.
She cried upon seeing her mother for the first time in seven months.
Between tears, Christie told the packed but silent courtroom her recollections from the
night of May 1983 when her mother had stopped the car on a dark country road.
She described how Diane exited the vehicle, walked to the back and opened the trunk.
There was no one else around.
She watched as her mother returned, pointed a gun at Cheryl who was in the passenger seat
and shot her.
She then described as her mother had reached over the back seat and continued firing,
hitting Danny.
Next, the prosecutor, Dan Huege, asked Christie to describe what happened to her.
She gently asked her, "Who shot you?"
Sobbing, Christie answered, "My mom."
Diane took the stand in her own defense and resided virtually the same implausible series
of events she described when first questioned.
She said that after the shooting she had panicked and prayed for her children to live as she
drove as fast as possible to the hospital.
If she'd been in such a panic, Huege asked, "How was the wound on her arm so carefully
wrapped and neatly folded in a towel?"
Diane had no answer.
He also confronted her about the timeline.
It just didn't fly, he said.
It had taken her 18 minutes to go 8/10 of a mile.
With a mother who was frantically trying to save her children drive so slowly, again, she insisted
she gone as fast as she could and didn't believe that this could be true.
Witnesses, however, confirmed it, testifying that they saw the small red car being driven
at such a slow rate that they remembered it clearly.
Others read from Diane's diary, in which she'd written about Robert Nickerbacher, her affair
with him, and her desperate need to win him at all cost.
She penned letters never mailed to Nick, in which she promised that if he moved to Oregon
and married her, her kids would quote "not be a problem, they will not be in the way,"
end quote.
Investigators also presented a psychological assessment that had been done when Diane
applied to be a surrogate.
The psychologist reported that Diane could shut her emotions down at will, like flicking
off a light switch.
He also diagnosed her with histrionic personality disorder, a personality disorder characterized
by excessive attention seeking, including inappropriately seductive behavior, and an excessive
need for approval.
People diagnosed as histrionic, are described as lively, dramatic, and flirtatious, with
exaggerated behavior and emotions, and who crave constant stimulation.
One interesting observation, the term surrogate actually means substitute.
Diane was an expert on substituting.
She substituted the love she received from her children, for the love she felt was missing
in her marriage.
She substituted the easy attention she received from men, for the attention she thought she'd
missed out on as a child.
Finally, she attempted to substitute the lives of her children, for the affection of one
man.
The jury returned its verdict on June 17, 1984.
They found Diane down guilty of one count of murder, two counts of attempted murder in the
first degree, and two counts of first degree assault, guilty on all charges.
Ten days later, she gave birth to a baby girl who was placed for adoption after the biological
father signed documents, releasing his claim on the child.
Diane was sentenced to life plus fifty years, with a twenty-five mandatory minimum sentence.
The court rejected all of her appeals.
It was determined by the parole board that her first eligibility to apply for release
would not be until 2009.
In 1987, Diane downscaled a prison fence and escaped.
She was on the run for ten days with the help of another prisoner's husband whom she seduced
and who'd agreed to provide her a hideout.
She was caught in five years for added to her sentence.
The prosecutor, Fred Huggie, requested that Diane be sent to a more secure facility further
away.
He had good reason to fear another escape by Diane.
Fred Huggie became fiercely protective of Diane surviving children, Danny and Christy.
But the consent of their father, Steve Downs, he and his wife adopted the children and were
raising them just miles from the Oregon prison where Diane was incarcerated.
His request was granted, and Diane was first sent across the country to New Jersey's
Clinton Correctional Facility.
She was later transferred to California and now serves her time in a California State
Women's Prison.
Diane Downs has gone before a parole board in 2010 and 2020 and was denied both times.
She continues to claim she is innocent.
We exit the decaying mansion and make our way through a labyrinth of twisted hedges.
We're deceit and treachery lurk around every corner.
At the heart of the maze, we meet Caitlyn and Cassie who share a hair-raising story from
their podcast, PNW Haunts and Homicides.
Usually neither one of us can handle the other one's topic.
It's true.
Like today, that's why I won't be talking that much.
We're going to hear a lot from Caitlyn.
Just know the look on my face won't be pleasant.
That's fine.
Many of us, if we choose to or are able to celebrate Mother's Day, we do that by sending
our Mama card or maybe some flowers.
You know, if we're not close enough to actually visit.
Since my mom lives in the area, we love to do brunch.
It's a nice, relaxing way to do something everyone can enjoy for the occasion.
Ooh, I think of mamosas.
Mamosas.
Mimosa, craves.
But because this isn't a podcast about brunch, in May of 2015, not everyone would be able
to celebrate the way they might wish.
Particularly in the somewhat rural, organ areas of Colton and Estecata.
Joshua Lee Webb was 36 years old at the time, living in a pole barn on his parents' property
where the Webb family home was, doing odd jobs in the small community of Colton.
His parents, Tina Marie and David Webb, were aware of only some of his struggles.
He had problems with his vision and though he was considered kind of a weirdo around town.
I'm a weirdo.
Not this kind of weirdo.
He was generally thought to be nonviolent.
However, concerning his mental health issues that they were perhaps unaware of, at least
in part, they would not remain hidden forever.
Later, a number of bizarre accounts about his state of mind and behavior would come to
light.
Like that he thought his girlfriend was trying to inject him with something in an effort
to kill him.
And there was the true leap of our claim that Fox TV was trying to own him.
What?
Not exactly sure what that means.
He also believed that something in the family home wasn't quite right.
Him?
He was said to believe that there was a recording device present, something like a black box
in the garage just capturing all the day-to-day goings-on.
That's like really extreme.
Eventually, his physical appearance began to deteriorate, not the least of which he had
some very unusual looking eyes, very unsettling.
He was known to rub his head in a frustrated manner and complain that it felt like a squid
was sucking on his head.
Okay.
I get that.
Which of course sounds deeply unpleasant.
His mother expressed concern to other family members about his mental health.
And Joshua himself seemed to be aware that what he was experiencing was not normal and
at times he even expressed concern that he might harm himself for others.
He had that much self-awareness.
I feel like he was just feeling like he's very much out of control in his own body and mind.
He voluntarily turned over firearms and destroyed knives that he had previously possessed.
He went so far as asking his girlfriend to move back to the east coast in order to keep
her away from him.
On May 13th, according to his father, they had a conversation before Joshua went to bed
and his father could tell that he was taking the break up really hard.
He didn't know any particular red flags or warning signs though.
Breakups are hard, so he really didn't give that conversation another thought.
Yeah, that sounds pretty legit.
Joshua took it a step further when he also falsely reported himself as a murderer to two
different police agencies in an effort to be taken into custody.
If that isn't the biggest cry for help.
One mother's day fears that perhaps they couldn't admit even to themselves would burst forth
into reality when Joshua's sister arrived at the web family home along with her children
to celebrate with the family.
She was immediately alerted to the fact that something was very wrong.
When she sadly found Joshua's dog stabbed to death in the kitchen.
No, what?
I know.
I'm really praying that her kids didn't see that.
I hope not.
That's so sad.
But it's not until she steps further inside the family home that the full depth of the
horror she stumbled upon is realized.
On Mother's Day of all days, she would find her mother's decapitated body lying on the
floor.
Oh, I just got freezing cold.
When she dials 911, at this point, there's already another call coming into dispatch from
a local grocery store.
The caller described a dishevelled man entering the store wielding a bloody knife and we are
not talking about a butter knife.
It was an eight inch knife.
So more like something you'd use to carve a turkey.
But it gets worse.
Witnesses would state that in his other hand appeared to be a severed human head.
No, we're not in sleepy hollow.
This is not a headless horseman situation.
The man helped himself to a soda from the cooler, drinking it right then and there in front
of the stunned employees at the store.
He threatened one of the store clerks, gave chase, and then gruesomely began stabbing
the man, Michael Wagner.
The other employees immediately moved to subdue the attacker.
They used duct tape to restrain the attacker before calling the police.
I don't think most of you are likely having any trouble connecting the dots, but this was
Joshua who became completely catatonic at that point.
He was taken to the hospital where he would remain in that state until a full 24 hours had passed.
When he snapped back to reality, he said, "I had a nice snap before providing a freely
given confession to the horrific crimes of the previous day."
This case did not go to a jury trial.
It was pretty open and closed.
He pleaded guilty by reason of insanity.
His defense attorneys obviously wanted to see him sentence to a mental institution rather
than simply being incarcerated.
Two psychiatrists, one from each of the opposing legal teams, testified in his trial.
They agreed that this was the correct course of action as both confirmed a diagnosis of
schizophrenia and psychosis.
Joshua's father, David Webb, who hadn't been present at the time of his wife's murder
said, "My wife was wonderful.
I've been married to her for almost 41 years.
Joshua was our son.
I never saw a problem.
Evidently, there was one.
I start crying every time I think about it."
"Oh, that poor man."
As we emerge from the dark labyrinth, we find ourselves in a decrepit greenhouse, where
they're wilted plants and shattered glass, hint at a once thriving sanctuary of life.
It's here that we meet Robin, who recounts a chilling tale from their podcast of trail
and cold.
So there are a lot of diabolical mothers out there who are murdered or attempted to murder
their own children, but I doubt you'll find too many crazy examples of this than Audrey
Marie Hill.
I first learned about this story in 1991 when unsolved mysteries put together a special
episode titled "Diabolical Mines," which attempted to perform an in-depth exploration into the
mind of a psychopath.
And even though the song of Audrey Marie Hilly was technically not an unsolved mystery per
say, I can see why they decided to put together a lengthy segment about her stories since,
well, it's Batchet and St.
Audrey Marie Hilly, who went by her middle name, lived in Aniston, Alabama with her husband,
Frank and their children, Mike and Carol, and even though Frank had a good job and they
seemed like an ideal family, there was something much darker beneath the surface.
Marie frequently cheated on her husband and spent money excessively, so she eventually
decided to utilize a popular practice for psychopaths who experience financial problems,
take out an insurance policy and love one, and kill them.
In May of 1975, Frank passed away at the age of 45 after a lengthy illness and the official
cause of death was ruled to be infectious hepatitis.
At the time, no one had any inkling that foul play occurred, but it turned out the Marie
Hitt taken out a $31,000 insurance policy on her husband right before his illness started.
And Marie blew through that money fairly quickly and reached the point where she was heavily
in debt and receiving calls from creditors.
While in 1979, history would seemingly repeat itself when Carol, who was 18 years old at this
point, became seriously ill and displayed a number of the same symptoms her father had.
While Carol attempted to recover, her mother secretly gave her injections which were supposed
to alleviate her nausea, but it only seemed to make things worse and Marie told Carol not
to tell anyone about these shots.
While all this was going on, Mike decided to confront Marie about her financial issues,
and this took place right before he ate a breakfast his mother had cooked for him.
While lo and behold, Mike soon found himself becoming very ill though he did recover.
The big turning point occurred when Marie was arrested for passing bad checks and it turned
out she was attempting to use them to pay the premiums on a $25,000 insurance policy
she had secretly taken out on Carol years earlier.
So let this be a lesson for stupid criminals.
If you're planning to murder someone for insurance money, make sure you at least have enough
money on hand to pay for the policy.
By this point, Carol was recuperating in the hospital and Marie's arrest generated enough
suspicion that physicians decided to perform new tests on Carol and discovered that she had
a high level of arsenic in her system, which resulted in a Marie's secret ejections.
Following this revelation, the authorities decided to exude Frank's body had sure enough
a new autopsy would uncover lethal traces of arsenic in his system.
And now seemed obvious that Marie had poisoned her own husband and daughter in an attempt
to collect on their insurance policies and it likely poisoned Mike when she fed him
breakfast.
What's ironic is that Marie was described as being very kind and loving towards Frank and
Carol while she was caring for them during their illnesses, even though she was the direct
cause of sad illnesses.
Anyway Marie was first arrested for the attempted murder of Carol before she was released on
bail and in January of 1980 she was finally indicted for Frank's murder.
If things had ended there, this already would have been a crazy story, but the next development
would send things into Kuku for Cocoa Pops territory.
While she was out on bail, Marie fled to Florida and started a new life under the name Robbie
Hannon.
She soon became involved in a relationship with a man named John Holman and got married
to him, but in the summer of 1982 Marie told John that she had to go back to her home
state of Texas in order to seek treatment for an illness.
While months later John was taken by complete surprise when Robbie Hannon's twin sister
Terry suddenly showed up at his door to inform him that Robbie had succumbed to her illness.
Nope, you heard that right.
Marie had actually gone to the trouble of changing her hair and losing some weight and was
now posing as her alter ego's non-existent twin sister.
There are only three letters one can use to adequately describe this situation and they
are W, T, and F.
Anyway the facade eventually came tumbling down and once the authorities learned that Robbie
and attempted murder and received sentences of life imprisonment plus twenty years.
In February of 1987 Marie was granted a three-day furlough from prison in order to visit
John who remarkably had still decided to stay married to her.
But she used this opportunity to attempt an escape and spent the next few days hiding out
in the woods.
Unfortunately for her, the terrible weather and freezing temperatures caused her to succumb
to hypothermia at the age of 53.
So I guess it's only appropriate for the saga Marie Hilly ended in a very unconventional
fashion.
So happy Mother's Day everyone and if any of you out there have mothers who have been
giving you secret injections and asking you not to tell anyone, run!
We leave the Haunted Greenhouse and enter a long forgotten cemetery where the graves of
mothers and children lie side by side, their stories etched into the crumbling headstones.
Admits the tombstones, we encounter Allison and Maggie from their podcast, Coffee and Cases.
The Christmas tree lights were gleaming and they were illuminating the wrapped gifts sitting
in the corner of the room.
In 23 year old Stanley Anita Moore's home at 2249 Lafayette Street in Denver, Colorado.
During the early morning hours of Monday, December 13th, 1971.
I'm also going to picture a root off the Red Nose Render playing in the background.
Yeah all the Christmas movies coming on television, it's a wonderful life maybe playing.
Now that is probably your thinking an odd name for a girl.
Yes she was personable and outgoing but Stanley Anita was known as Stanita by her friends
and family so they just kind of merged the two names.
Yes she had gotten the unique name because of her dad Stan Lee Moore.
So he and Stanita's mother had already had three children all girls and now in his wife's
fourth pregnancy he was desperate for a little boy.
So when their fourth child was another girl, he decided to pass along his name to her anyway
calling her Stanley after himself Anita.
I kind of like it though.
And her parents did go on to have boys so he was a little premature in passing along the
name but yeah it's very unique.
And Stanita was fierce in a way that all of the best people are.
Her younger brother Steven recalled that Stanita was always his protector and that if Stanita
was near no bully ever bothered him.
I love that.
Yeah she would stand up to wrong no matter what form it came in.
As an adult Stanita was a hard worker and her role is a nurse aid at Presbyterian Hospital
but her greatest joy came in being a mother because again she's a protector.
Yeah I was going to say she's going to be a mom of air.
She was an independent single mom to a little girl named Shandale.
The night of Sunday December 12th 1971 into the early morning hours of Monday December 13th.
Stanita and her then 18 month old daughter were at home with Shandale already fast asleep
obviously in her crib in another room.
Which I guess I shouldn't say obviously because she's 18 months old so she could be waking
up in the middle of the night but she was asleep this night in the other room.
And while we don't have many details concerning what happened that night here is what we do
know and I will warn you it is very little and I'll explain to you why in just a moment.
Someone entered Stanita's home that evening though we don't know if that entrance into
the home were forcible or if Stanita had let the person in.
But while my research yielded no details as to the murder weapon we do know that Stanita
was strangled to death.
I don't know if the choice to strangle with one's own hands versus using an instrument
indicates anything about the perpetrator psyche but it would at least to me seem to indicate
more premeditation if it were done with an instrument like a shoelace in the most
right.
Right.
But again with what little reports there are none of them specify but either way the
one silver lining is that Stanita's daughter Shandale was not harmed and had slept through
the incident safely in her crib.
That is a silver lining for sure.
We do know that Stanita's family received a call in those early morning hours of December
13th telling them that something horrific had happened and that they needed to rush to
Stanita's home right away.
But again we don't know who called them to tell them that they needed to come over who
called the police.
One of those details have been shared but they couldn't believe what had happened.
In the aftermath, Shandale was adopted by one of Stanita's sisters and despite all of the
horrors that had already happened in her young life the family made it their mission to
counteract those horrors with a continual outpouring of love over the years to Shandale.
Now as I just mentioned, there is a lot of information that is missing.
Key questions still unanswered.
Important details, nonexistent.
This is partly due to the fact that the police files for the case no longer exist in their
entirety.
Oh how did that happen?
So the family just recently discovered that so much of the documentation has been missing
and they recently discovered that it has been missing for at least a decade.
Wow.
I don't understand.
We've talked about that on our show before.
Being discarded or things disappearing.
I want to see how that happens.
So here's how they explained it.
The case is that we are not going to be able to see the case.
Of how the stringulation was enacted.
However, spokesperson Shepman wrote an email to that same reporter Vaughn noting that,
"Well, they may just as likely have been destroyed by water damage.
They could still be available but just accidentally misfiled somewhere else in the archives."
Or even that a detective had checked out the files to work on the case years ago and just
never returned them.
Okay, but I think at least that one you would have record of the detective's check in the
files.
I would hope.
As we know, a lot of cold cases have breaks because the stories remain in the public consciousness.
Unfortunately, that didn't happen in Stanitas case which received only a couple of articles
at the time, including one that ran on April 9, 1972 called, "Who killed Mother of Sleeping
Baby."
And then nothing.
Even now, there is little information to help keep the story alive, only a handful of articles.
And with that, I've pretty much given you all of the information that has been shared.
Wow.
That is why you, as the listener, are even more important.
Just because we don't have a lot of information to share doesn't mean that these stories don't
need to be shared.
Despite the bleak outlook, there can still be hope, even though it has now been more than
50 years since the crime occurred.
In Kevin Vaughn's article in 9 News, Shandale said of her mother, quote, "I don't get to know
her, but I wish I could have."
End quote.
That kind of loss is heartbreaking.
However, while Shandale doesn't have memories of her mother's kindness and love, she can
feel the outpouring of it from others who are willing to share her mother's story and
to push for answers.
And answers are still possible.
As we wander deeper into the graveyard, we come across Nina, who tells a tale from her
podcast already gone.
There are a lot of terrible ways to die.
Cancer, drowning, and Alzheimer's-related illness.
But for me, the worst way to go is being burned alive.
David Cole and Timothy Fowler were close friends from Deerfield, a small town in Lennoway,
County, Michigan.
Deerfield is a very small town, and it's located about 60 miles southwest of the city of Detroit.
In the spring of 1982, David and Tim were nearing the conclusion of their sophomore year of high
school.
The two spent a lot of time together, and they loved working on cars.
Their dream was to open an auto shop after high school, a place where they could earn money
doing what they loved.
Their families described the boys as "good kids" who stayed out of trouble.
Saturday, May 8, 1982, the day before Mother's Day.
David's mom and stepdad are off to West Virginia, they're visiting relatives.
David invited Tim over to spend the night at his parents' farmhouse just a few miles outside
of Deerfield.
But both David and Tim's parents were reluctant to allow a friend to stay over because of
the lack of parental supervision.
However, the boys were persistent, and their parents gave in.
Tim went to David's farmhouse for the night.
But on Mother's Day, May 9 at approximately 12.45 am, firefighters are called to the farmhouse.
When they arrive, the wooden structure is engulfed in flames.
When the fire is extinguished and the smoke clears, a horrifying discovery is made.
The bodies of David and Tim are found on the first floor, locked inside of a windowless bathroom.
The boys were still dressed in street clothes, leading investigators to believe that they were
awake when the fire started.
Evidence at the scene made it look like a person or persons came to the home and forced
the boys into the bathroom, locking the door from the outside, trapping them in a small,
windowless room.
This person or persons then poured gasoline on the floor of the home and lit a match.
The gasoline appeared to have come from a can that was usually kept out in the barn.
During their investigation, officers found the nearly destroyed can in the remnants of the
fire, along with the bodies of Tim and David.
A 1983 story in the citizen patriot newspaper reported that gasoline was poured in front of
the door and ignited.
But more recent stories claim that the fire started in the kitchen, which was adjacent
to the bathroom.
The farmhouse where the boys lived and died was older, made mostly of wood, and the first
floor bathroom was part of an addition to the home.
This was the lack of windows and the strange door setup where it locked from the outside.
When the bodies of the boys were recovered, investigators learned that one of the boys
had lowered himself into the bathtub, filling it with water in an attempt to survive the
blaze.
The fiberglass tub melted around him, leaving investigators with a chilling teblow.
When I initially covered this horrific double murder on the podcast in April of 2019,
it's episode 114 of your interested in an in-depth look at the case.
I spoke with Kim Spencer, the younger sister of Timothy Fowler.
She believes that locals committed the murders, perhaps kids from a neighboring high school
were involved.
But back in 1982, at the time of the blaze, police interviewed teenagers from the nearby town
of Petersburg, but the interviews did not move the case forward.
Detective Kevin Greca of Lenaway County Sheriff's Department is the investigator in charge
of this case, and he told the press that he developed various scenarios leading to the
fiery death of the boys.
But these scenarios generally come back to a disagreement over a girl, or a dispute over
drugs.
Kim's sister said that he was not a drug user, but it's possible that he and David were
targeted to send a message to someone else.
Listeners, it's my understanding that some of the people police looked at in this case have
since passed away, and that another potential suspect is in prison on charges unrelated
to the Mother's Day murders.
Police believe that even today there are people in the area with knowledge of who started
the fire that led to the deaths of two children.
With the right information, Detective Greca is confident that this case is solvable.
If you have information about the Mother's Day murders, contact Detective Greca at the
Lenaway County Sheriff's Office.
He can be reached at 517-264-5364.
[Music]
As we continue to explore the long forgotten cemetery, we notice a secluded corner,
surrounded and creeping ivy, and overgrown plants.
Here we encounter Alicia and Sierra, who share a chilling tale from their podcast, twisted
and uncorked.
Hello everybody, I'm Alicia, and I am Sierra, and we have a story for you.
In honor of this Mother's Day episode, we will be telling you about Ma Barker.
She was the matriarch of the Barker, Carpey, gang that operated during the 1900s in Chicago.
After her husband of 35 years leaves the family, Kate, Ma, Barker, was left to her own devices
and encouraged her son's criminal lifestyle.
She became the alleged mastermind behind all of the activity that the gang got up to.
Like all good stories though, we have to go back to the beginning.
Kate Barker was actually born Arizona Donnie Clark on October 8, 1873 in Ashgrove, Missouri.
Her parents John and Emily in Clark affectionately called her Ari.
Love the name, Arizona and Ari and Emily.
Just put it in there.
Same, so pretty.
Same.
In 1892 she married George Barker, and they went on to have four sons together.
Herman in 1893, Lloyd in 1897, Arthur in 1899, and Fred in 1901.
George would take any job that he could to sport his large family.
Even if all of them weren't the best paying in order to put food on the table.
His jobs would range from a service engineer to a clerk.
Kate stayed at home and cared for the boys and the home, and in 1910 one of George's jobs
brought the family to Oklahoma.
Hopefully it was better paying.
Most people would focus on settling their roots, continuing to live the All-American dream,
you know, but this was right around the time that the Barker children started committing
crimes in order to make money for the family.
They were repeatedly involved in various gang activity and the seriousness of their crimes
would only escalate as they got older.
In 1927 Herman died during a robbery shootout.
He shot out officer point blank in the mouth and then turned the gun to himself, knowing
full well that guns would soon be on him.
That or he just didn't want to go to jail.
The motive behind this action is unclear.
Goodness.
After the death of Herman Mr. Barker was crushed and he couldn't stand that his family was
living this way with his wife Kate knowing all about it.
He left the family to avoid connection with the criminal lifestyle of his wife and children.
From 1928 to 1931 the Barker boys were in prison and was no one to do her bidding for her.
Ma Barker lived a life of poverty often turning to sex work for income.
In 1931 when Fred Barker was released from prison he founded the Barker Carpey gang with former
prison inmate and friend Alvin Carpey.
On December 9, 1931 Fred and Alvin killed Sheriff Roy Kelly in Missouri during a robbery which
forced Ma and the rest of the gang to flee Oklahoma.
A manhunt ensued for Fred and Alvin with Ma listed as an accomplice.
When Arthur was released from prison in 1932 he quickly joined the gang.
So no prison reform at all here from anyone it seems.
Just from crime to crime to jail to crime.
The group would be on the run committing crimes throughout St. Paul, Minnesota and Chicago
Illinois over the next few years looking over their shoulder constantly for police out
for them.
The blutes began portraying Ma Barker as a ruthless killer that would plot their crimes out and
protect the gang at all costs.
From this point up until 1935 the gang was highly sought after by the FBI as well for obvious
reasons.
On January 16, 1935 FBI swarmed Ma's house.
A tip off to police indicated that family was living in Oklahoma, Florida.
This resulted in a four hour shootout between the Barkers and police because they refused
to surrender.
Jesus.
Alvin Carpey and two of the Barker boys had left the house three days prior for a job, leaving
Ma and the youngest of the boys, Fred, alone in the house at the time of the shootout.
Once the smoke cleared, both Ma and Fred were dead.
Arthur Barker and Alvin Carpey continued the gang despite all of the losses they had experienced
thus far, and in November of 1935 the boys robbed a male train in Ohio.
In January 1936 postal inspectors found Alvin Carpey hiding out New Orleans and he surrendered
without a single shot being fired.
Clearly he thought better of his next moves after what happened to Ma and Fred.
After this the Barker Carpey gang was finally dismantled.
Finally, in the shadows of an ancient crypt, we meet Josh.
Josh is my brother, and together we are going to share a terrifying tale of a mother's
dark deeds from a podcast we do together, Mystery Inc.
Well Shane, we have a story about a mother who gave birth to a legend yet treated her like
a machine.
We have seen her daughter to work herself into an early grave.
We have all seen Dorothy skipping along the yellow brick road to find her way back home
in the Wizard of Oz.
Join by friends she wants nothing more than to go back home to her loving family.
If you know about the fabulously tragic life of Frances Gum or her stage name Judy Garland,
I bet she would have opted to stay over the rainbow.
Legends never die, but they often grow from unnurished soil.
Judy Garland was is and will always be mother, but let's learn about the horrible woman who
gave birth to her.
An ex-Vaudville actress turned bitter wife and mother who basically sold her daughter to
a studio.
Her name was Ethel Marion Milne.
Without her we would never have met our beloved Dorothy, but maybe Frances would have lived
a longer happier life without the trauma from her mother remaining with her until her
early demise.
Frances was born the youngest of three daughters, two Frances Gum and Ethel Milne.
When the couple found out they were pregnant for the third time, they panicked due to the
financial cost and sought to abort the fetus.
After being unable to find someone to do the procedure, the couple, desperate, took matters
into their own hands and did everything they could to cause a miscarriage.
They already had two girls and their relationship was rocky and they often separated.
Their efforts went in vain though as Frances Gum was born on June 10th, 1922 in Grand
Rapids, Minnesota.
She quickly became the family favorite.
As even at a young age she had a star presence about her.
Ethel had all of her daughters performing as soon as they could walk.
Judy first began appearing on stage at the age of only two.
This was before child labor laws, but they still wouldn't have applied to the poor girls.
Many businesses, entertainment and paper delivery are, let's say, more than lacks about the exploitation
of child labor still to this day.
In 1926 the family moved to Lancaster, California for two reasons.
One was they were hopeful that they could launch the motion picture career of the sisters
who eventually began using the stage name, the Garland Sisters.
As their surname Gum just wasn't glamorous enough.
The second reason was to escape the increasing rumors that Judy's father was gay.
Well that explains her panache.
By the time Judy was 10 her mother began to increase her workload.
It was clear to Ethel that all of her hopes lay with her youngest daughter.
Ethel began putting all three girls on anphetamines to make them wake up and work.
Then she would give them sleeping pills to make them shut off for just a few lucky hours
of rest.
Judy said that her mother used to threaten to hurt her if she didn't perform, even when
she was sick.
Ethel would force her to go out on stage.
But she also stated that she only felt loved when she was singing.
In 1935 Judy's father Frances fell ill due to meningitis and died in the hospital, leaving
the girls alone with the will of their horrible mother.
That made Ethel increase her efforts to push her girls to start them even more.
When she began forcing Judy to audition, studio executives worked extremely critical of her
physical appearance and Ethel started forcing their wishes upon her daughter.
They made her stick to a strict diet and weight loss pills to prevent her from gaining
any weight.
You know in the Wizard of Oz she has little insert in her nose to give it a better shape.
Eventually she would be put on a diet of black coffee, chicken broth and cigarettes, all
with her mother's approval.
By the time Judy graced our screens as the girl and the Ruby slippers, she had already appeared
in several films.
But Oz is what launched her into fame.
For her mother living vicariously through her daughter, it would have been wonderful.
Ethel didn't care about her daughter at all, only keeping her new feeling of finally having
fame.
For Judy was in constant search for plain human kindness.
By 1941 she had married her first husband and quickly became pregnant.
Judy was ecstatic about it and grateful for the opportunity to have someone to love and
to love her unconditionally.
Sadly though, studio executives didn't think being pregnant suited their carefully crafted
image of the beautiful virgin that was in Judy and told her mother to convince her to abort
it.
Judy refused, but her mother still held so much power over her that she went to her home,
made her get in the car and drove her to have the procedure.
She was now in her 20s and a married woman, but the constant neglect from her own mother
held so much power over her that she gave up the one thing she wanted most in the world.
Love
Throughout her life, Judy was married five times and had three children whom she loved
and adored.
Liza Menelli still speaks so lovingly of her wonderful and loving mother.
Judy starred in Glow and dimmed several times throughout her short life.
Before she died, she had begun a stage revival and received standing evations each night.
It appeared that she was back and better than ever.
All of that attention must have brought up some of her old demons because she began to
substance abuse again.
The old habit her mother had given her as a child was something she just couldn't
beat.
And on June 22, 1969, Judy Garland was found dead of an overdose in the bathroom of her
rented home in London.
So come to the addiction that her mother had given her.
Her body had been worn out from the brutal conditions that Judy had grown accustomed to
from the age of two.
Ethel Marion Melney died 16 years before her daughter in 1953.
She was living alone and working in the office of a factory.
Her body was found in the parking garage by a fellow employee.
She had suffered from a heart attack on her way into the office.
It was found on her knees leaning against a car.
Ethel had let a studio basically have all ownership of her daughter from appearance to when she
could have a child.
On her the addiction that ultimately ended her life forced her to abort a wanted fetus,
abused her into performing mentally and emotionally scarring her forever.
And that's just all the stuff we know about.
The story of Judy Garland is most definitely a sad one.
I had known that the studio had owned her pretty much, but it never occurred to me to think
about how her own mother treated her until now.
As I watched the Wizard of Oz as a kid, Dorothy seemed like an adult to me and so happy.
It goes to show you the phenomenal acting ability Judy possessed, making the whole world
fall in love with her all while being abused and unloved by her own mother.
There's no business like show business.
Our journey through the hidden recesses of motherhood comes to an end, leaving us with haunting
memories and chilling tales.
As we part ways, remember to cherish the love and sacrifices of the mothers in your life.
But never forget the beneath the surface, darkness can lurk.
Thank you for joining us on this spine tingling adventure and a special thanks to all of our
talented podcaster friends for sharing their eerie stories.
Remember all the podcasts you heard are listed in the show notes in order of appearance.
Go take a listen.
Stay vigilant to your listener and we'll meet again in the shadows of our next Macobb
journey.
[MUSIC]
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