Well, welcome once again.
This is The Doctor of Digital from the The Doctor of Digital podcast.
And what we hope to do is to transform your business in life with business and education
inspiration.
I introduced busy business leaders to trends in business technology and marketing to highlight
people you should know.
Did you know the Bible inspired Hollywood?
Many blockbuster films owe a surprising debt to the Bible from epic tales of good versus
evil to grand narratives of love, loss and redemption.
The Bible has provided countless storylines that continue to resonate with audiences today.
Movie makers recognize this power of storytelling and use it to create fresh and engaging content
that brings the Bible to life for a modern audience.
Now, enter Appian Media.
This innovative organization is dedicated to providing biblically accurate, visually engaging
and freely available resources to help people connect with the Bible on a deeper level.
Their commitment to accuracy ensures viewers are getting a faithful representation of
the scriptures while their professional production value makes the content visually compelling
and captivating.
But perhaps more importantly, Appian Media makes all the resources freely available, removing
financial barriers that might prevent people from exploring the Bible.
During this episode, we'll do a deep dive into the changes and hot topics of producing
documentary film about the Bible.
We will leverage the expertise of my guests and how to navigate the unique dynamics of the
field.
By the end of this episode, we'd better equip to know what to do and encourage you to contact
my guest, Greg DeHut, co-founder and COO of Appian Media.
With that, Craig, thank you so much for taking some time out.
Good to see you today.
How are you?
I'm doing well.
Thank you for having me.
So, got to ask you, of course, your background.
How does one get into producing documentary films about the Bible?
How did you get in this field?
It was not a straight line.
Yeah.
So, I studied film back in 2005, went to film school and the original intent was to do future
films.
I wanted to be the next greatest writer and director of future films, narrative.
And was able to kind of dip my toes a little bit into television broadcasting and news and
came to realize that I enjoyed more telling stories of real people and real things that
were happening.
I still have that creative itch to occasionally do a short film or two.
But over the last really ten years or so have really fell in love with just the documentary
aspect of it and met another fellow creative and Christian here in Indianapolis.
And together the two of us thought, well, why can't we make documentaries about the Bible
and make it compelling and available?
Sure.
That is something which is kind of interesting.
It's an interesting story of how you got in this in the first place.
Would you say, and what would you say are some of the changes that have taken place over
documentaries and also films about the Bible?
Oh, that is a great question.
It's fascinating, 2005 doesn't seem that long ago.
But it's long enough that in film school, the idea of shooting video on your phone was
ridiculous.
No one talked about that.
You were lucky if you had a phone that took fairly decent thumbnail-sized photos.
Now and with our most recent documentary, some of the footage that you see was shot on an
iPhone.
And it is not uncommon to be able to produce and even edit without ever leaving that smartphone.
And so our job has become not that that is replaced, the professional cameras that we use,
but our job has become a lot easier in capturing these kind of unscripted spur the moment authentic
moments because I can just pull my phone at real quick and capture that and do it in an
incredible quality that was not previously available less than 20 years ago.
Absolutely.
So it really has changed a lot.
That's what I'm curious about how things have changed so rapidly along with technology and
also just the subject of the Bible too, which is really interesting.
So are there topics in the Bible that people are expressing an interest in?
And I also think there's a larger framework because things are going on in society, right?
So someone might make the case like, well, why are people interested in the Bible, right?
There's a lot of alternatives out there today.
So what can you tell us about some of the topics in your field?
Sure.
So from the beginning, when we began Appian Media, we didn't know how many opportunities
we would be able to have to create this kind of content.
So we started with what we felt was the most sought after and desired topic, which was
Jesus Christ.
And so that was our first foray into that.
We spent two years producing a series called Following the Messiah.
But since that time, we not solely based on this, but we are constantly asking and looking
into what are people most interested in right now?
What are the topics that people are searching for on YouTube?
Can we go to those places is also a question we need to consider?
And so that was one of the driving forces behind our most recent documentary about the Exodus.
That is one of the most sought after and searched and researched topic, biblical topic, especially
on YouTube.
And so we wanted to offer a perspective and really dig deep into the biblical narrative of
that.
And that's what I find really interesting and fascinating because there are those people
who are very skeptical, let's say.
So that's what I'm curious about, like how and you've been able to position yourself
in such a way that with all the skeptics that are out there and all the alternatives,
like of all things, why the Bible?
Because it's not in a traditional sense and just a society anymore.
It's true.
And I'm under no illusions.
I don't believe that we will ever produce a piece of content that will convince everyone.
If that were possible, it would have long ago been done.
The Bible does require an element of faith.
That said, there is plenty of evidence, archaeological and historical and geographical evidence throughout
the biblical text that help reinforce the faith that we have in it.
And so we do touch on that.
Not everything is purely from what you'd say, an apologetic approach.
Can we prove that these stories are true?
But we do touch on that on each of our documentaries.
Let's take you to the places that the Bible says it, it happened.
Is that a place that exists?
Can we verify that these events happened?
The Exodus gets a little more tricky.
Sure.
Absolutely.
You know, the story of Jesus only happened 2,000 or so years ago.
The story of the Exodus, you're talking thousands more.
So there's less to see.
There's less fewer places that you can go and stand and go.
We know for sure this was the spot.
Moses was here when he turned the water into blood.
We can't say that.
But what we are able to do is we interview archaeologists and historians and locals and talk
about what has been found, some of the conclusions that can be drawn.
And we don't go quite as much into depth as some documentaries about this particular topic
have done in years past.
They do an exceptional job of really digging in.
But we do touch on it with enough for us to go, look, these were real people.
They really did exist in Egypt.
And this group of individuals came out of that land through this barren wasteland of a wilderness
and made their way into Canaan through God's provision.
And there are things that we can show you along the way and talk about that reinforce the
faith.
And that's one reason I ask specifically about Exodus because the further back you go and
Exodus is a great example because there isn't the kind of archaeological and historical background.
But obviously when it comes to a figure like Jesus of Nazareth, he made a much bigger and
visible impression on the world, right?
There's more records, there's more resources and what have you.
So when you're making a documentary, you can't say quite definitively, but you certainly can
allude to things and discoveries are happening all the time, which is the fascinating thing,
right?
So we might not have documentation of everything, but oddly enough, things keep popping up,
right?
Right.
Suggestive of that there is more to these stories than you might think it's just a fable.
Yeah.
We were in Israel in 2018.
We were able to interview an archaeologist who travels to Shiloh, which is where the Tabernacle
was housed prior to the temple being built.
You're talking about figures like Eli and Samuel and they've been going back year after
you're digging up there in Shiloh.
And it's amazing, but he made a comment that has really struck with, stuck with me is 95%
of Israel has not been archaeologically excavated.
They've done about 5% of the land of the Bible.
And so when critics say, we haven't found, we haven't found what you're saying.
It's like, well, because you've only scratched the surface of it, but isn't it interesting
in just the 5% that has been adequately archaeologically exposed?
We do find cities are where the Bible says they were and people groups are where the
Bible says they were when the Bible says they were.
Imagine what we'll find when individuals start digging up the other 95%.
Yeah.
I find really fascinating, of course, is that when you consider these things and these issues
compared to other things in the ancient world, because I have a background in ancient history,
I'm saying, compared to Augustus and Julius Caesar in which many of the things that
these are the most famous people of their day and there's little archaeological evidence.
There is a little to compare it to.
So when you're going and thinking about the Bible, well, don't expect everything to be
verified by something else.
None of ancient history is verified by other things.
Right.
Someone pointed out to us that there is far more proof to the existence of specifically
Jesus Christ than there is of any ancient historical figure of that time.
And it's not even close.
And so even emperors during that period of time, Roman emperors, you'd think, and there's
proof.
There certainly is.
You can read about it and see the cities and things that they built.
But it is, we found, even over there, when we traveled to Israel, we never encountered someone
who denied that Jesus was a real person.
Now, there's quite a bit of debate over there as far as who he really was.
Was he the Son of God?
Was he just a prophet?
Was he a heretic?
But no one over there is foolish enough to deny that he was a historical figure because
they're living in the land and the evidence is undeniable.
But again, it does go back to faith.
The proofs that he was the Son of God, I believe that they are there, but it is going to
require some level of faith.
Over here in America, 21st century individuals are more likely to deny that he was even a person.
But it's really, it's due to ignorance.
They don't understand how much evidence there is of the actual individual.
And so that's what we're hoping to do is get people to see the places, appreciate the
culture, the modern day culture.
Try to consider what the ancient culture was at the time that these accounts were written
and see the history and the geography, even in some instances, considering the weather.
One of our team members is a trained meteorologist.
And so it's not uncommon for him to go, "Look, when we consider some of these biblical stories,
weather is something that's fascinating to consider in the land of Israel."
And what we want people to do is, with that information, read the biblical text from a renewed
perspective, read it with, we hope, a renewed excitement and dig deeper into it.
When you think of, like, if there's sort of the average ordinary person, I guess, what's
the aim?
Like, what would you generally recommend people to think about in what you do?
Of course, I'm really curious that your distribution model, because if you're giving things away,
now, I mean, the obvious question, well, how do you survive?
How do you make money?
So, what are your general recommendations for people and how do you approach your work?
Sure.
So it is interesting, especially in the industry that we are in, to say, we spent all this
money and all this time, and we created this thing and then we gave it away for free online.
My peers and others in the industry, sorry, you did what?
And the way that we're able to do that is from the beginning, we have been, as Appian
Media, a non-for-profit organization.
And so, individuals donate on the frontend.
And so we create the content after having raised what we need.
And that's production costs, that's travel costs, that's post-production and writing on
the other end of it.
And so we are not scrambling to find theaters, to host as many screenings so that we can
recoup that cost.
We raised it on the frontend of it.
And so many people, many of our largest donors are so thankful that they can be part of something
that makes these resources available for people without the barrier of cost.
It was something that we were looking at from the beginning.
And so that's been our approach, what can we do to remove barriers between people in the
Bible?
And really approaching in a way that we are good stewards with the things that God has
blessed us with to make these kinds of things is not cheap.
Especially in places like Egypt and Jordan, film permits, we don't just show up and start
filming video.
You can't do that, you shouldn't do that in the Middle East.
And so taking the time and the resources necessary to make sure that our trips are safe and legal
and beneficial to everyone.
So what's expertise in terms of what you do and maybe it's partly technological, partly business,
because you have a nonprofit model, but the technological aspect is in terms of using the
newer technologies out here, iPhones, pretty amazing, like you're saying, nobody would have thought
of it back in 2005 now you do.
So what kind of expertise do you do and what's the future, where do you see yourself going?
And I'm always hesitant.
I assume now that I've been doing this for about two decades, I can consider myself an expert,
but any of us who's working in this industry always feel like I don't know as much as
I want to know.
We're constantly learning, technology is constantly changing.
That said, we do try to surround ourselves with the right kind of creatives who are not
just proficient in what they do, but are eager to learn more.
And so the cameras that we use in our first production trip in 2016 are very different
than the cameras that we used when we went to Egypt a year and a half ago.
And keeping up with those things, I certainly don't want to give the impression that we shot
the whole thing on phones, we did not.
But what we did, that first production trip, we shot in HD because those were the cameras
that were available.
There were a few at that time that shot 4K, but they were out of our budget.
Well, this last trip, obviously, we're shooting on cinema cameras that can shoot 4K or more
flying drones and things.
With the, we're trying to look into the future, hey, 10 years from now where people are going
to be consuming content in this way and trying to stay ahead of that curve.
We have on several of our trips, the last two or three of them have brought cameras that
shoot in 360 degrees.
And we've got some really interesting content where I'm still trying to figure out the best
way of giving it to our audiences where they can look around.
Because they're walking with us through the streets of Cairo or driving with us while
we're driving through Wadi Rum in Jordan.
Five years from now, what technology is going to be available?
I'm not sure, but you can bet that we will try to be incorporating that.
I think about what Apple has just come out with with their Vision Pro and Spatial video.
So shooting with two different cameras, trying to give you a more accurate depth perception
and that's fascinating to me.
Will we be producing content where people could put headsets on and truly immerse themselves
into the land?
I'm fascinated to consider it.
And we're looking into that.
I was just talking with someone yesterday for months and months we've been talking about
photogrammetry and the technology of being able to capture high res photographs of a thing
or a place that can then be turned into a full three-dimensional model.
And the benefit of that would be creating three-dimensional spaces that students or people
interested in the Bible could walk through, literally walk through at their own pace and
being able to look around the city of Jericho or Kaparnum.
And how can we quickly, because that's the hangup right now, how can we quickly produce
that kind of content when we're in country?
And then your question earlier, and I realized I didn't quite answer it, who is this for?
What audiences are we recommending?
It began originally with high school students in mind.
We were teaching myself and our co-founder Stuart Peck.
We teach Bible classes on occasion.
And I'm sure that anyone who teaches can relate.
These high schoolers who are coming in, phones in hand, that's what they've been consuming
all day and learning from all day.
And then we tell them to put those away.
And now we're going to study the book.
There's nothing wrong with the book.
The book has lasted for millennia, and that's what we ought to be studying.
But what tools can we give young people specifically, so that they can have media and technology
to help them better appreciate the book.
And as soon as we release our very first set of videos, we realize it's not just high schoolers
who are asking for this.
We had 90-year-old viewers saying, "I've studied the Bible my whole life, and I'm just
now seeing the places that have been described.
I've got a six-year-old son who sees this
content and watches it and engages with it."
In the same way that the Bible is for all ages, you're going to understand more at different
ages.
We want our content truly to be for all ages.
And it's lasting, too, right?
I mean, I guess that's the idea.
It's a document that is preserved, and it's a new dimension, I'd say.
Right, a lot of people have been reading the Bible, but to then experience it, I think
it's very insightful, the point you made about, like, get into the world of cappernum and
the world of Egypt and the world of Israel to see what it was like.
It brings the Bible alive in so many ways.
You know, fascinating way of approaching the Bible and really insightful and interesting,
too.
So I'm curious if people are interested in how do they get a whole of you?
How do you recommend?
Do they see your films?
They contact you directly?
How do you contact or how do you get contacted?
Absolutely.
So all of our films thus far are available to watch for free online.
You can either visit api-inmedia.org, and there's a library of films, including all of our
podcasts and behind the scenes that you can watch.
Most people find us on YouTube, so you can just search for "Apian Media" and find us
there on YouTube channel.
What of Egypt is the documentary that we just released back in mid-March, and that is currently
available just on our website?
Again, free to watch.
No strings attached.
There are various screenings of that happening around the country right now.
It's free for people to sign up.
There's an events page on our website where you can register for those free tickets.
Really, it's been our approach from the very beginning to, again, try to remove barriers
so people can have access to it.
We're putting our content where people are already gathering.
It's on our website.
It's on YouTube.
We have a variety of distributors around the world, satellite television stations and streaming
services that we distribute our content through right now media and faith-life TV and things
like that.
We encourage people if they look for our content in a certain place and don't find it, and
would like to see it there, certainly reaching out to us and starting those conversations.
I just got an email today.
Someone wants a screening in Nashville, Tennessee, and they're saying, "What can I do?
How do we get that ball rolling?"
We encourage people to host their own screenings and their own watch parties, and we try to
help facilitate that as best we can.
Awesome.
It's a really fascinating area.
I really appreciate you taking some time out and chatting.
I learned a whole lot and hope other people did as well because I think they could be as
fascinating as I am.
Thanks for taking some time, Craig.
I really appreciate it.
Absolutely.
Glad to do it.
You bet.
So, thanks for your time.
We'll also then get you some other interviews, other people.
And hopefully your as fascinating as I am, this whole idea of the Bible.
It's not going anywhere, folks.
It's been around for a whole long time, and people are very interested regardless of what's
going on.
If you want exciting guests like Craig, please subscribe, like, share, positively review the
podcast because hopefully you're enjoying it as much as I am.
Until next time, we've got some more guests coming your way.
Keep it coming.
Keep everyone supportive.
And I want to thank the publishers of Burning America and OnTrack, Ian Hunter, for their
support for The Doctor of Digital.
Until next time, we'll see you at day as well.