1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000 [Music] 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:12,000 Monster House Presents 3 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:17,000 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:22,000 A giant airing creature, part beast, part man 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,000 In Loch Ness, a 24-mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands of Scotland. 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,000 It's a creature known as the Loch Ness Monster. 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:51,000 [Music] 8 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Monster Talk 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,000 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm Blake Smith. 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,000 And I'm Karen Stolzner. 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Hey there again, Monster Talkers. 12 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:11,000 As I record this, it's Labor Day Weekend 2024, and I'll be giving a talk today on my silver bullet and wearable research at the skeptic track at Draguncon. 13 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:14,000 And hopefully snagging some fun interviews throughout the weekend. 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:23,000 In the meantime, let's continue my conversation with screenwriter and now podcaster Richard Hadham about his new show, Richard Hadham's Paranormal Bookshelf. 15 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:30,000 As we'll say in this discussion, this is a reach across the aisles kind of chat because Richard certainly doesn't self-identify as a skeptic, 16 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:35,000 but we're both fascinated by the same weird stuff that hopefully you also care about. 17 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,000 I really think it's important to talk to all kinds of people. 18 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:45,000 You don't have to be convinced by, and I'm air quoting here, the other side, in order to have meaningful and informative conversations. 19 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,000 You can just be two people talking about big ideas and sharing common curiosity. 20 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,000 I think it's useful and fun and I hope you find it to be the same. 21 00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:01,000 We will be picking up this conversation from part one already in progress, and if you miss part one, you should probably catch that first. 22 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:13,000 Oh, and the language in this got a little rowdy, and so I think I've beeped everything, but just to be safe, I've slapped an explicit tag in case you were in a situation where you need to be concerned about such things. 23 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Hopefully didn't miss any, but there's your warning. 24 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Monster Talkers. 25 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:28,000 Like when I was in the Navy, I had so many friends who were gay and lesbian, but they couldn't say it, and we hardly ever talked about it, but you know, they could lose their jobs. 26 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,000 They could get kicked out of the Navy, it could be disarbled discharge. 27 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:37,000 It was like, there was serious consequences to being true to yourself, and that sucks. 28 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:47,000 And so I always, when I learned about D. Scott Rogo, I felt this weird affinity for him, you know, for like living a secret life, you know, and like being interested in this stuff. 29 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:53,000 Yeah, I just felt a strong connection, even though we were on the opposite side of the belief spectrum, you know. 30 00:02:53,000 --> 00:03:01,000 I totally get what you're saying, and I've had that notion has occurred to me also that there's the outsideer feeling. 31 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:13,000 Now, I'm, you know, you and I are straight white males in the American culture of the, you know, 21st century, so we're living a very distinct life. 32 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Yeah. 33 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:28,000 And, and so, so while I see what you're saying about that sort of like, oh, yeah, I kind of know what that feels like to feel like I can't really be my authentic self in all situations. 34 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,000 Yeah. 35 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:43,000 And when, and we were growing up at a time when the sort of like most glaring example of that would have been, oh, gay people who are part of our culture, but keep this one aspect hidden. 36 00:03:43,000 --> 00:04:03,000 What's really cool about right now and the, you know, podcasts and the internet is that a lot of people who feel outside the mainstream for all kinds of reasons are able to kind of find each other. 37 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:08,000 And not even vigorously for our listeners, not even vigorously, but he is, he is, that's what a God. 38 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:33,000 Well, what it does though is in the best possible sense, it makes you go, oh, okay, but if I feel weird and marginal because of my interest in a particular subject, I can now understand and sympathize with other people who feel marginalized for other, maybe much more foundational reasons that are, that actually do impact their lives and the way they are allowed to even conduct their lives. 39 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:45,000 And it's certainly what it's done for me. It's, it's almost like, yeah, please tell me how you're an outsider in whatever way. 40 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:53,000 And we will then have something we share even if you're an outsider because you like some weird, you know, sport or stamp collecting or whatever. 41 00:04:53,000 --> 00:05:05,000 It's like, yeah, that's the thing. And I talk about it a lot next season, but it's kind of, it's the joy in the tragedy of never joining the group, you know, yeah. 42 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:12,000 And you're never going to be the one in the stands waving a flag for your football team. 43 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:26,000 And I was like, I don't get it. I don't really get how people get excited by going, hey, I identify with this larger thing. 44 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:35,000 And I was like, well, I don't, but of course for me, it was sour grapes because I'd never been welcome in the larger group. 45 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:52,000 Because I wasn't an athlete, you know, and I wasn't whatever. So it's like, oh, the things I care about, no one else does. And that's not, you know, and it's so funny because again in the 70s, it's like, no, you're special, free to be you and me. 46 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,000 And whatever makes you different makes you special. 47 00:05:54,000 --> 00:06:10,000 Yeah, Earth Day, what right? And I, and I, and God bless them for saying that and for making the, the outsider kids try to feel okay, but the fact of the matter is for the majority of our lives, being different isn't helpful. 48 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:19,000 And it doesn't make your life easier. It makes your life more difficult. It's actually far easier to just be, I'm a straight light guy who loves the team. 49 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:32,000 The team, yeah, and I don't have the sports team. Exactly. Whatever that is that makes people love sports. I don't have it. Yeah. And that is so awkward because I'm really good. I'm really good on team trivia, but not all sports. 50 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:43,000 And, and I don't feel like, and I'm not talking about like the, the, oh, there's one category I need to work on. I mean, no, I feel disconnected from most of society because most people do love sports. 51 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:56,000 You know, okay. Yeah. So, so, okay, now you're me. Yeah. You know, you finally are working in Hollywood as a TV writer. All TV writers feel like outsiders, even within Hollywood. 52 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:04,000 And now I'm sitting, I find myself throughout my career. I'll be sitting with a group of writers. And then one of them will start talking sports. 53 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:10,000 And then the others suddenly are all talking sports. And so this, that's so weird. 54 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:26,000 Just keeps getting smaller. I'm like, oh, my God, even among my people, I'm still ostracized because, and, you know, I don't have a lot of regrets in life. But one of them in a weird way is I almost wish I had been born with an interest in sports. 55 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:31,000 Because if you have that as a guy, you can talk to anybody. Yes. Yes. 56 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Yes. Absolutely. You know, and I just never had that. And I'm like, yeah. And again, at a certain point, I just had to embrace all that stuff. And it's like, hey, you know what? I also don't like opera. And I also don't care. I mean, there's a lot of things that I'm not into. 57 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:54,000 But the sports one is like, yeah, that's that's when you're a guy that that cuts you out of so many. 58 00:07:54,000 --> 00:08:06,000 It makes you an outsider. It absolutely does. And but isn't so much of the paranormal stuff about being an outsider. In fact, if you, let me taste something. 59 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:21,000 When I ran into podcasting, I think it was probably around 2007. And, and I thought, oh, one of the first shows I found was Skepticality, which was done here in Atlanta. 60 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:36,000 And I started listening to that the Skeptical Sky to the universe. And I was like, oh, I'm an IT guy. I could totally do this. Like the technological side of this is completely, you know, clear to me. I totally see how to do this. 61 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:46,000 But I didn't know even though I come from a background of writing. And I had some experience with radio and broadcasting with the Navy. 62 00:08:46,000 --> 00:09:00,000 I didn't really know what I wanted to do a show about. And then I ran into Karen at a at DragonCon in 2008. And we all were sitting around talking about monsters and like, oh, this could be the thing. I kept thinking podcasting was something I'd be interested in. This could be the thing. 63 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,000 We spent about a year working on it, whatever. 64 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:13,000 But that whole community, like that whole sense of finding your tribe. That was new to me. I've always been the weirdo. 65 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:23,000 They outsider, the odd ball, you know, and so even though I'm comfortable talking to almost anybody about anything, I don't always feel a part of the group. 66 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:32,000 So suddenly I found this group of people through online, podcasting online communities. And I was like, this is my tribe. This is awesome. 67 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:40,000 I could really thrive here. I peep these people will know what I'm talking about. And then I discovered, no, not really because it turns out that in the Skeptic world. 68 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:55,000 Most of them are more interested in talking about religion being dumb. And there is no God. This is not or altmed, homeopathy and raky and acupuncture. 69 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:08,000 That's which is very serious stuff, you know. And only a subset was interested in the paranormal. And I'm like, I don't know why because that's where the big stuff is. That's where people care. 70 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:20,000 I mean, yeah, just like true crime, people, there's like a sort of dirty kind of secretive, like I'm into ghosts. I'm into monsters aspect to it. 71 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:28,000 But those are the big questions. These are the big questions. Are we alone in the universe? Do we continue after we die? 72 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:39,000 Are there monsters out there that disprove the scientific evolutionary perspective? Are all the big paradigms bullshit? Those are big questions. Why are we not asking this question? 73 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:47,000 And why are we not seriously looking into this? And why does so many people believe in this stuff if it's not real? These are really serious questions. 74 00:10:47,000 --> 00:11:06,000 Well, I mean, in that leads to books entitled, why do people believe we are things and, you know, why, you know, why do people believe bullshit or whatever. But it's like there's, there's, there's a group think even there, there is a team and you want to be on the team. 75 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:20,000 There are a team leaders that are, that are well respected and, and it's also a fairly unassailable point of view. Once you're in that group, you're fairly unassailable. 76 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:31,000 You're not going to get a lot of argument when, when you say all that exists in our world is what you can, you know, experience with five senses. 77 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:52,000 And if any of this other stuff existed, we'd already know it and we don't so next question. And now let's get to the good stuff of how are religious people ruining the, the forward progress of our lives, which, which is an argument even I can, you know, get behind and I can, you know, get on board with that. 78 00:11:52,000 --> 00:12:02,000 A lot of laws that are being made based on a religion, I don't believe in. So yeah, on, in that, in that regard, the skeptics and I are on the same side. 79 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:13,000 But it's easy to, it's easy to focus on those downsides. But, you know, there's that sense of community you get at a church, you do not get a skeptics in the pub, you know, it's just not the same. 80 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,000 And where are the potlucks, my friends? Where are the potlucks? That's what I'm asking. 81 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:27,000 Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, I was going to say, because I've, you know, you're talking about D Scott, rogo and that he, he's gay. 82 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:39,000 And it's something I've thought about a lot. It's like, just if you just look at, like, say on mediums and, you know, spiritualists. 83 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:56,000 So many are women. So many of them are people who are gay or, or, or, or sort of from an, you know, just outside, you know, the, the mainstream in terms of lifestyle sexuality, whatever. 84 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,000 So many of them for the listeners. I'm again nodding vigorously. Yet. 85 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:07,000 Yeah. I mean, I mean, the one really underrepresented group are straight white males, although they are there. 86 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:21,000 So I began to think about that in a weird way. I'm like, if, if it were a scam, straight white males would have dominated this field. 87 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:36,000 But they don't. And it's like, well, no, why is that? And I'm like, oh, because a straight white male embracing the, the, the sort of liminal things actually reduces their status. 88 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,000 But in almost every other group, it can raise your status. 89 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,000 Interesting. Yeah. 90 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:52,000 And the, you know, in the mid 1800s, a lot of women gained power by being spiritualists. 91 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000 Yeah. 92 00:13:53,000 --> 00:14:01,000 And a lot of, and there were probably also people who, you know, gay people who we still don't know were gay. 93 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:12,000 We're able to sort of trade upward in society in terms of notoriety or income or, or power in terms of people saying, oh, I've been told I must talk to you. 94 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:26,000 You have the, you know, the, the ear of the other side. And I want to talk to you. And then, so their status comes up in a way that a lot of other areas outside of maybe art wouldn't allow. 95 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:36,000 And I think maybe that's why we've, we've seen that and it seems to be a recognizable aspect of a subset of the paranormal. 96 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:46,000 Well, I agree. And I think, I think, and I think on the skeptical side, there's a lot of assumptions that people will do this sort of thing to seek status consciously. 97 00:14:46,000 --> 00:15:04,000 And I'm not so convinced that that that's necessarily even a conscious aspect, but it's certainly a result, you know, and it's like is it as you gain status within a community, you may be aware that you're seeking it, but you may just be doing what you think feels natural. 98 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:13,000 And it just ends up that that makes you popular or powerful or grants you certain aspects to your life that you didn't have otherwise. 99 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:28,000 But it certainly comes up, especially in the 19th and early 20th century, you see it happen, you know, it's an important reminder that we've only had suffrage women's vote for less than a century. 100 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:41,000 You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's that struggle, you know, it's crazy. And so finding outlets to get power in the patriarchy is no small deal. That's a f***ing huge thing. 101 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:52,000 One, it's such a, it's such a, so empty argument that, you know, people, you know, people claim, sort of jump on the supernatural train is a way to become famous and make money. 102 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 And it's like, really? 103 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:00,000 Okay, so I'll hold up a book that's right here that I'll be talking about in season three. 104 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,000 Oh, that'll be fun. 105 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:03,000 Yeah, communion. 106 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:08,000 I'm haunted by that cover as is America and the world. 107 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:16,000 But now there's a straight white male whose status was really on the rise. 108 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:27,000 And then wrote, wrote that book, some follow on books 30 years later, he is not Stephen King. 109 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,000 That's right. Right. Yeah. 110 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,000 He's been rejected from all concerned about who's going to be keeping the wolf in franchise alive. 111 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 Right. 112 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:40,000 You know, like in other words, if you just kept, if you just kept writing. 113 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:41,000 Yes, you're absolutely right. 114 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,000 Yeah. Yeah. 115 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:48,000 He would be a guy still in print, you know, with, with a, you know, huge backlog. 116 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,000 He'd have a house in Malibu and everything else. 117 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,000 He does not. 118 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:53,000 Let me tell you. 119 00:16:53,000 --> 00:17:03,000 And, and it was because he came out as a person who was having these experiences that other people have in the same way that he had. 120 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,000 And, and he just got, you know, rejected from everything. 121 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,000 Did we say what we're talking about? 122 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,000 I know you held it up, but that was to be sorry. 123 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,000 We're with the streamer in communion. 124 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:15,000 I'm sorry. 125 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,000 We're, are there other people listening? 126 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,000 I thought it was just us. 127 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:25,000 So yeah, he is not, this is not a way of gaining status. 128 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,000 But in, and let's be honest, he had this huge hit with communion. 129 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:33,000 He could have ridden that UFO gravy train. 130 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:39,000 But then he brought it all to be about the dead and what happens after we die and all this consciousness stuff. 131 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:50,000 And, which, I think he's being true to himself, but, and, and I think frequently he's mischaracterized by the skeptical community of being that gray alien guy. 132 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:57,000 And I'm like, he is so much more and so much more complicated and not really well understood by the UFO community. 133 00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:04,000 Yeah, he's a, he's a complicated character and it certainly is not just writing the money train. 134 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,000 Yeah. 135 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:09,000 No, and it was not obviously something he did as a stunt. 136 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:10,000 Right. 137 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:15,000 You know, once, I mean, it's basically been now the, the majority of his life that came out of the 40 years ago. 138 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,000 Seems extraordinarily sincere about what he believes. 139 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,000 Yeah. 140 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,000 And, and, and, and one of the, and of course, he doesn't even, like he doesn't even come out and say, 141 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:28,000 look, here's what I believe he is still struggling with his experiences that he's still having. 142 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:32,000 And the problem with this stuff is that, and it's all the supernatural stuff. 143 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:37,000 I mean, it's, I'm going to say it's ghosts, it's UFOs, it's bigfoot, it's everything. 144 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:47,000 It all comes down to, and the reason it's, it's still impossible is that it, it comes down to this sort of physical and not physical. 145 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,000 And we're still in a paradigm of physicality, which of course we should be. 146 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,000 And R, and that is where we live. 147 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:05,000 But there are, if every aspect of the supernatural depends upon a notion of, sometimes it's physical, sometimes it's not. 148 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000 Poltergeist. 149 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,000 It's a ghost, but it moves stuff. 150 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,000 Aliens. 151 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:15,000 They're physical when they're interacting with me, but no one else sees them. 152 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,000 And they walk through walls, which is a little weird. 153 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:18,000 Yeah. 154 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:25,000 And they walk through walls and they seem to be able to train in and it's sort of in my head, but it's also on my body. 155 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Yeah. 156 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,000 There's no, there's no analog for that. 157 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:37,000 There's no, it's like, well, it's physical and not physical, like this other aspect of our life that we experience as physical and not physical. 158 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,000 And I'm not talking about water. 159 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:45,000 Yeah, water is physical and then you heat it up and it turns into steam, but steam is still physical and we can all see it. 160 00:19:45,000 --> 00:20:02,000 This is something else and it's been talked about throughout human history, but we're not at a point where we can have a rational conversation about, well, it's that thing that is sometimes physical and sometimes not. 161 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:03,000 Yeah. 162 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,000 Well, it isn't intriguing. 163 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:09,000 So I'm, it'll be, it'll be interesting to see what happens next week. 164 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:18,000 I think on, sometimes next week, I have a article coming out, and I see next week, this would be after Labor Day or Round Labor Day. 165 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:37,000 I have an article coming out in the UK Skeptic magazine, which is, it's about brain function and materialism and how beliefs work and how there's this concept of the mind virus that comes from Richard Dawkins and memetics. 166 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:45,000 But also Dawkins also came out with virus of the mind as religion is a mind virus that can invade your brain. 167 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,000 I'm like, mmm, but can it is that really how ideas work? 168 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:56,000 Do you hear an idea and suddenly you believe it or is it something more complicated because we don't really just hear an idea and suddenly it takes over our bodies. 169 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:01,000 That's not really what happens, but that's the metaphor and it's become so pervasive. 170 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:11,000 People talk about the woke mind virus and all these other ideas about like you can be infected by an idea and it will just take over and you lose. 171 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:17,000 Sorry, if you had a conscious will, if you had control of your life, you don't anymore because now you're subject to the mind virus. 172 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,000 I'm like, no, that's not really what's happening. 173 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:29,000 It's a bad metaphor and it's a bad idea and there's no, there's not like if you want to be a materialist you need to acknowledge that brains don't work like that. 174 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,000 I'm probably going to get in trouble with some people. We'll see how it plays out. 175 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:40,000 I basically accuse Richard Dawkins of magical thinking because that's really, that's not how brains work. 176 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:48,000 If you're going to be a materialist, you need to acknowledge that we, you know, that's just not how it works. 177 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,000 I'm more eloquent in the article than what I just say. 178 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,000 It's just wrong. 179 00:21:54,000 --> 00:22:07,000 In the episode I do on Ted Sirios, I talk about that because we get into man and it's funny how quickly, 180 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:27,000 how a materialist skeptic will, will on the one hand kind of dismiss therapy and psychology and much of that sort of soft science and, and, and, and, and just, you know, hustle it right out of the room, 181 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:33,000 until they need a metaphor, you know, or until they need to explain something away. 182 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:45,000 And then something is, it's like, well, it's the psychics, it's mass hysteria. It's a mind virus. It's crowd think it's the sort of personality that is highly susceptible to suggestion, right? 183 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:51,000 Right. Maybe that's real. I don't know, but wow, that's a pretty broad category, right? 184 00:22:51,000 --> 00:23:00,000 You know, to say that, but if you're going to accept that, then what you're doing is, along with that, you have to import a whole lot of soft scientific thinking. 185 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:10,000 If you're going to suddenly give a lot of credence to, you know, well, it's a kind of, you know, psychological mindset. It's like, oh, I didn't know there were psychological mindsets. 186 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,000 Yeah, I thought therapy was all bullshit and we were all kidding ourselves. 187 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:23,000 So it's like everyone is kidding themselves and themselves, and him and her selves in different ways. 188 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:33,000 But, and you know, it's funny. It's like, there's some mornings I wake up and I'm just, you know, I'm pissed off at skeptics, but I find less and less. 189 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:41,000 And especially after I have conversations like this works just like, you know what, we're all getting old. We're all trying to figure this out. We're all just trying to get through. 190 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:52,000 And, and if, if that's your way of getting through and you're not hurting anyone else, then, then great, you know, and, and really now I'm just like, 191 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:58,000 well, at least when I see skeptical conferences, I'm seeing more women. 192 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:02,000 Yeah, there's some brown people. Yay. 193 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,000 Is that Tyson? 194 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:13,000 I know. Okay. What do you know? I mean, look, I, I am absolutely the, I'm just absurdly liberal about my politics, my outlook on life. 195 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:25,000 I want everybody to thrive. And it's the most embarrassing thing in the world to me that I only can think of maybe two or three people of color who are interested in cryptos. 196 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,000 Or, it is, that's ridiculous. 197 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,000 Well, that'd be because because, 198 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:42,000 people do people out. Oh, I, well, okay. So my, my first episode of season two is monsters among us by Linda Godfrey. 199 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,000 Okay. Cool. 200 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:48,000 And, and, and, and, and, right, tie into our previous two episodes about dog man. 201 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:53,000 Oh, yeah. I saw that. Yeah. I haven't, I haven't caught up with it. No worries. No worries. So, yeah. 202 00:24:53,000 --> 00:25:08,000 But it sort of talks about there's a, there's a portion of it that's sort of like, well, Linda got some grief for being a woman in, in parapsychology in general, much less, you know, a, a sort of fringy area of cryptosoology. 203 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,000 You know, she wasn't even talking about Bigfoot. She was talking about, you know, where wolves dog man. Yeah, exactly. 204 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:24,000 You know, and, but it brings up the fact that, that, that modern parapsychology, but really all parapsychology to a large extent has been a white boys club. 205 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,000 I mean, how many of those ghost hunting shows do you see where there's people of color? 206 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:35,000 Not many, except for the ghost brothers, but I mean, they're, they're kind of the outlier though. I mean, in that field, yeah. 207 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,000 And, no, some of that started doing this season was like, well, you are going to talk about some women authors. And I'm like, well, sure. 208 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:49,000 And I started going through my books, going through my books, going through my books, hang on. I'll find one going through the books. Oh, here's one. 209 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,000 Yeah. 210 00:25:50,000 --> 00:26:01,000 It's like, oh, shit. This is, this is not as, but, but, but then again, I'm, I'm looking at, well, who is being published in the last 100 years in America? 211 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:10,000 Okay. That doesn't mean there aren't women and people of color who weren't, I mean, there's probably like, if you look at a book, if a book is published about, you know, 212 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:30,000 famous mediums, it'll all be white people and mostly you'll be women. But what it's not accounting for is that, you know, the women or men from other cultures whose voices weren't even being asked for, but within their cultures were very well known. 213 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:44,000 And there probably just the person next door, they're not getting famous. It's just like, okay, well, in this neighborhood, we happen to know that the person who lives three houses down can speak to the dead, you know, or can tell the future or can do whatever. 214 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:50,000 And, and we don't know those names. And that's our fault. Yes, exactly. 215 00:26:50,000 --> 00:27:00,000 The history doesn't necessarily reflect the real history, right? The full history. Exactly. Even if it's just a culture, exactly. If you don't want to believe it, it's just a culture. 216 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:10,000 And I'm, I'm hoping and I'm like, you know, we've had the internet now for 25 years or something. I mean, can't we, shouldn't we be translating every single book? 217 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,000 Aren't there like a million books written in Chinese about Chinese people and their abduction experiences? 218 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:29,000 Yeah, we have that. And I'm using that as an example, but no, but for me, you know, for our audience is I'm trying to get out into monsters across cultures, like I'm trying to get into Asia in Africa. 219 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:43,000 And it's like, it's harder because the English written literature about it is less, but it's still there. I mean, the, you know, the experiences are there. And they're important and should be discussed, right? They should be known. 220 00:27:43,000 --> 00:28:09,000 Well, you know, Scott and Forest just did on astonishing legends, their podcast, which is how we met. They did an episode, I think a two-parter on the elusive force about a young woman, I believe in, in Hungary, who in the 80s was displaying, you know, there was poltergeist phenomenon. And then she was sort of doing macro PK. 221 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:27,000 And, and it was extremely well documented, but literally it was only like in the last five years that a book written about her was translated. And she was largely unknown until fairly recently. And I'm like, but why? 222 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:38,000 Why does it take 40 years, especially when you're talking about the last 40 years? Shouldn't we know all the stuff a lot quicker and shouldn't there, it would be like if I had the money, all it would be is translations. 223 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:48,000 Yeah, no, for a language is do you speak, go find those books, go into that area. And with some of that stuff is starting to happen within American subcultures, but I'm still curious. 224 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:57,000 What are the books being written in languages that are never published in English that should be? Yeah, you know, for the people who are interested. 225 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,000 You know, my co-host Karen is a linguist. She would be losing her mind to miss out on this conversation at this point. 226 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:28,000 Oh, no, I'm really sorry about that. Sorry, Karen. But yeah, no, you're right. And I, I, you know, as a nerd, I, I definitely am a big fan of Opus4Software. And as a technology enthusiast, I am, I'm really frustrated by both copyright and patent law. 227 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:38,000 And how it's been corrupted by capitalism to instead of keeping a small window for people to, you know, profit, but then it becomes a big cultural thing. 228 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:49,000 It's like, they keep extending the life of these, these walls. And I, I feel the direction is they're just going to keep making this wall higher and more difficult to cross. 229 00:29:49,000 --> 00:30:03,000 But the technology is there to make all this stuff available. And it should be because that's our heritage as human beings is to be able to tap into that, that narrative space and learn from every culture. 230 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:11,000 And the barriers of language are now more artificial than ever. And, and, and, and it's just crazy. 231 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:16,000 And maybe that's the work of the next generation. I hope so. I hope so many breaks that wall down. 232 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:32,000 Well, you know, I don't like, I can speak from somewhat for my kids from my observation of them that they are, you know, they're in their 20s. My youngest son is 17, not interested money at all. 233 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:47,000 And not, not an ambitious cell in their body. It just is not how they're motivated. They want to have a good life. They want to have their friends. They want to be able to wake up in the morning and be creative and not starve. And that's about it. 234 00:30:47,000 --> 00:31:05,000 No one gives a brand or I want to drive this car where this suit have this job, leaving this, they couldn't give a sh*t. And I'm talking, and I find this to be very common. I also find that they are empathetic and kind and socially aware. 235 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:19,000 And when, when that's where you're coming from, you can do a whole lot of sh*t because you are not the culture and, and the sort of the monetary system doesn't have a gun to your head. 236 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,000 If you don't care about money, you know, you know, you of course, they will. 237 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 238 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:38,000 I want them all to have every kind of protection they can have and health care and union, all that stuff. It's not like, oh, they don't care about it so they want to be, you know, wage slaves, but it's not how they're motivated and it's not how their brains work. 239 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:45,000 And so maybe they're the ones who are like, well, we'll go find ways to communicate with people who use technology to do all that. 240 00:31:45,000 --> 00:32:03,000 I'm a pathological optimist, Richard. I really am a pathological optimist, but my generation is full of cynicism and, and, and just pessimism. And it's like, I hate it because I know so many people my age who don't see a future. 241 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:10,000 And I've got kids and like, these kids don't know that cynicism. That's not in there. They just don't know it. They don't understand it. 242 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:33,000 I want them to thrive. And I want them to build a better future where we find ways to communicate and get along not not that so many things happen in the world right now, which are selfish and pessimistic and nationalistic and like that whole global idea, like the idea that we're all living on one planet, we need to figure out ways to get along. 243 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:46,000 And clearly we could all thrive. We could all, but like that self is tendency. We end up with billionaires. I come to believe there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire, you know, like it's just doesn't make any sense. 244 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:54,000 It fucks you up. Yeah, it really does. Like getting that much accrued wealth is not good for you. And all people do when they get it is try to keep it. 245 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:59,000 Fear and cynicism is not the way to a brighter future. It just isn't. 246 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:09,000 They all get to this point where the last frontier is just like, well, how do I become immortal? I mean, it's gonna be a tank and I'm gonna live it. They're all, I mean, they're fucking nuts. 247 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:24,000 Yeah, but, but the thing is we, you know, our age group is always cynical when I was a kid, the people I knew, aunts and uncles and grownups and parents, they were cynical too because everyone grows up thinking it's going to get solved in your lifetime. 248 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:34,000 And it's never going to get solved in your lifetime. The fight goes on. It was going on before you were here. It's going to go on forever after we're all gone. 249 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:44,000 And, but we get up second, we're like, oh, well, when I walked into this movie, I was told there'd be a satisfying conclusion. And now I'm beginning to realize there will not be. 250 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:57,000 But, but think about it. Like when we were kids, it was a, all anyone talked about was there's a button and someone's going to press it and 15 minutes later, everything on earth is going to be dead. 251 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,000 Yes, that was our, that was the world we lived in for sure. Yeah. 252 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:08,000 Now, how did our parents feel about us? You know, they were probably sitting there going, well, what's the point? You know, these kids are not going to be alive. 253 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:21,000 There's not even to be a world. Oh, you're the year 2000. That's never going to happen. I mean, for sure, I would feel that way. Yeah. I grew up with a poccaliptic millennialist. They thought that the world was coming to an end. 254 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:28,000 And I can only say they seem somewhat disappointed that it has. Right. Because you want the end of the movie within your life. 255 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:33,000 Yes. I have a player character. I deserve to see the story arc, right? 256 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:42,000 Exactly. So here we are. Richard, thank you for being so generous with your time. And my pleasure. Thank you for having me on. 257 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:54,000 No worries. And again, I know you're much more open to these things being real than I am, but I love talking to you because we both, we want to understand what the fuck is going on. 258 00:34:54,000 --> 00:35:09,000 We stand as a living example of reaching across the time. That's right. The belief like skepticism. Exactly. Exactly. I love it. I wish there were more people like you. I wish there were more people like me. 259 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:20,000 This is great. I really appreciate it. So again, thank you for having me on. I'm loving my foray into the world of podcasting. 260 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:32,000 And so which you and Scott and forest have helped me learn about and get excited about. So now I'm joining the party. 261 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,000 When is Susan two? Susan two. When is season two? 262 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,000 There was no Susan two. Forget I said that. We know Susan two. 263 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:51,000 Susan two come out. We could be people find season two season two begins season. We'll start with this. Richard Adams paranormal bookshelf season one is out. 264 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:59,000 Yeah, episodes one through 10. You can listen on any platform you love Spotify, Apple or a million others. 265 00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:12,000 And then season two of Richard Adams paranormal bookshelf premieres on September 30th. Fantastic. That's really soon. So catch up on the first 10 episodes. You'll love them. 266 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:27,000 And there won't be much of a wait for the next season. That's exciting. I am so happy for you. I really I loved what you do. A season one. I can't wait to hear season two. Are you going to stick to the 10 episode format or is that 10 episodes of season or have you thought about that? 267 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:47,000 Yeah, I am going to stick to 10 episodes. But I will tell anyone who's listening because if you are listening and and you want to find out on Liberty weekend, check my feed. There's going to be announcements about big stuff coming up for the show and new ways to enjoy it. 268 00:36:47,000 --> 00:37:05,000 So and a couple really interesting things in terms of news. So come check my feed. Jump on the feed. Listen to the episodes that are there and then Liberty weekend probably on the Monday. There will be a new short announcement episode where we'll talk about season two and other fun stuff coming up. 269 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:33,000 Monster Talk. You've been listening to Monster Talk with science show about monsters. I'm Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolznow. You just heard part two of my interview with screenwriter Richard Adam about his new show, Richard Adams, Paranormal Bookshelf. Check our show notes for a link to that and check your streaming services for Richard's writing in movies such as The Mothman Prophecies and in series like miracles and Titans. 270 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:43,000 Monster Talks theme music is by Peach Stealing Monkeys. We hope you had a safe Liberty weekend if you're here in America, or just a safe regular weekend if you're not. 271 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:53,000 [Music] 272 00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:03,000 [Music] 273 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:13,000 [Music] 274 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:23,000 [Music] 275 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:29,000 [Music] 276 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,000 This has been a Monster House presentation.