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Welcome back to Communication Breakdown, a weekly podcast from the Observatory on Corporate

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Reputation.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm Steve Dowling in Silicon Valley.

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And I'm Craig Carroll here all in New York City.

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Each week Steve and I take a look at strategies companies are using to shape headlines and

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sometimes save their skins.

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It's the post-game show for PR Pros.

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This week, Harvard turns the tables on Trump.

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After months of trying to somehow meet the White House in the middle on issues of free

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speech, diversity, and academic freedom, Harvard finally drew a bright line in its own

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defense and on behalf of American academia.

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Served with a Trump administration nasty-gram two Fridays ago, Harvard responded defiantly.

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Not with its fight song, but with an unflinching, unambiguous message from its president.

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Quote, "The university will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional

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rights."

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The White House immediately froze $2.2 billion in grants and went on to threaten the university's

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tax exempt status.

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Then, they started piling on new probes and demands for documents and then things started

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getting weird.

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The New York Times, citing multiple administration sources, reported some believed that the Friday

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afternoon letter had been sent in error. But in the same letter, a senior White House official

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stuck by that letter and blamed Harvard for responding publicly.

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This week, with no let up in Trump's pressure campaign, Harvard went on the offensive, suing

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nine federal agencies, calling the funding freeze arbitrary and unconstitutional.

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That was Monday.

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On Tuesday, more than 100 presidents of U.S. colleges and universities issued a statement

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rejecting what they called "undo government intrusion" and the coercive use of public

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research funding.

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The number of signatories has since climbed over 400.

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And on Wednesday, Harvard president Alan Garber took his case to NBC Nightly News, asked

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about the pain Harvard will have to endure going head-to-head with Trump.

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"We don't know how much we can actually absorb, but what we do know is that we cannot compromise

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on basic principles like defense of our First Amendment rights."

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Craig, this dispute is remarkable for a number of reasons, I think, not least of which is

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this Clash of the Titans' quality it brings.

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But what I think we're seeing here is the first actual PR blitz against the Trump administration,

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and it might have seemed a bit slow moving or limited in its audience because it's ostensibly

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a bunch of academics.

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But it has all the components.

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And this week, especially, I think Harvard has played it extremely well.

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If you rewind, they had a headline-grabbing rejection of Trump's threats, then the White House

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stumbled with this suggestion that the letter was some kind of misfire.

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And instead of treating that as an off-ramp, an excuse to de-escalate, Harvard puts its

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foot on the gas- lawsuit, letter, big interview, and crucially, I think they were able to do

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what industries have not achieved so far in this administration, which is to get an

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overwhelming number of its peers to stand up in support.

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And that's just the tactics.

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The substance of their message has been really strong as well, making this not about funding,

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but about universities being an economic asset.

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Healthcare has been a big part of the message.

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The first amendment, as we heard, there from Garber.

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They've broadened the dispute, they framed the issue as much more fundamental, and they've

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framed it importantly as a stand they have to take.

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It's not a war of choice.

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Garber frames the issue on Harvard's terms: constitutional rights, academic freedom, national

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impact.

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That is textbook narrative control.

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Yeah, and what's wild is, it's not just Harvard is fighting back.

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It's that they're fighting forward.

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This is in a defensive crouch.

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They're using every escalation as an opportunity to widen the frame.

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And, Steve, the way he laid it out really drives home something bigger here.

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But Harvard isn't just reacting, they are reframing the entire conversation.

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They're putting in emotion the three P's that we've been talking about for chaos management:

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principles, priorities, and perspective.

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I'd say, the principles are rock solid.

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It's about constitutional rights, academic freedom, the integrity of higher education.

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But it's also the value of truth seeking as a public good.

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That's a pretty strong moral center.

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It's not a tactical spin.

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It's pretty anchored.

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And Harvard's response isn't just well timed,

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it's well principled, you know, they're not flailing.

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They're not performing,

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they're standing on very deliberate principles.

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There's so much that we can talk about here, right?

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But I would hit on some of the key aspects here because I think they're going to be showing

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up in companies' responses.

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They're defending constitutional integrity.

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They're maintaining their institutional independence, or they're protecting it.

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They're being radically transparent.

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They're not quietly compliant and they're acting with collective responsibility.

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No, not just institutional self-interest.

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And they're keeping their composure when escalation would be so easy.

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We should keep in mind that the initial scrutiny from the Trump administration was ostensibly

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about anti-Semitism at Harvard and other colleges.

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And in the response, Garber called that a political ploy.

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He said that the administration's effort were just disguised as an effort to address anti-Semitism.

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But in doing that, he's acknowledged that anti-Semitism is a real and serious issue at his institution.

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So that takes a weapon out of the administration's hand.

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He's not running from that issue.

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I think the general assessment is that he's taken a more head-on approach than his predecessor

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who resigned under pressure from Congress on the same issue.

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But in this round, Harvard sounds credible rather than cornered.

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They're owning the issue.

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They're defending their autonomy.

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That's a powerful messaging duo.

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They've taken the damaging part of the criticism and they're defusing it.

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It doesn't make a go away, but it shows strength, to your point.

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Yeah.

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And I think that's the distinction that matters here most, right?

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That Harvard isn't denying the problem,

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they're refusing to let it be weaponized.

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And I think that's a rare thing in institutional comms, right?

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Owning the issue without seeding the frame.

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And that's exactly what Garber is doing here.

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He's not deflecting.

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He's not minimizing.

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He's saying yes.

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And anti-Semitism exists here.

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Yes, it's unacceptable.

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And here's what we've done.

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And here's what we're doing about it.

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But he's also saying you don't get to use that as a troche and horse to audit ideology, to

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control governance, or to dismantle academic independence.

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And for me, that's what's so effective here, right?

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It's strength through acknowledgement.

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He's not trying to shut the conversation down.

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He's trying to re-anchor it in integrity.

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That contrast, especially coming off with how chaotic the previous leadership transition

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was, makes Harvard sound very steady, not defensive, not performative, but steady.

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And that changes the dynamic.

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It makes it harder for critics to say "Harvard won't deal with this."

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And it makes it easier for allies to stand with them without having to excuse the original

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concern.

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I think that's how you take oxygen out of the fire without pretending there was no fire.

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I agree.

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And it's also, it's a classic PR jujitsu move.

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Because once they has defused that issue, they've moved immediately to pointing out what the

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government is trying to do to them.

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And Harvard needs to keep that point about the government being unreasonable in its demands.

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You need to keep that at the center of this debate.

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Remind people why they're on defense- why this wasn't a fight that they chose, but that

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they had to engage in.

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And that can be difficult after a few rounds of back and forth, because the press loves

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a food fight.

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And we may be guilty of it ourselves here, focusing on the elements of Harvard's response.

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But Garber has been urging people to read the government's letter and framing it as pressure

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to audit the viewpoints of the faculty and of students and to reduce the power of students

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and some faculty based on their views.

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And that, as he describes it, and I think it's a fair reading, it's like 'thought police'

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stuff.

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And Harvard is calling the government out for starting with anti-Semitism, but really moving

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quickly to try and regulate the intellectual conditions-

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I think that's the administration's term- at the university.

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So that their Harvard is doing a good job in reframing this to their advantage.

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And I think to the benefit of all these institutions who are under pressure from the administration.

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This is where Harvard has to keep the spotlight on where it belongs, right?

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Because the longer this drags on, the easier it is for people to lose the plot.

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So you get caught up in the headlines about lawsuits or tone shifts or media strategy.

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But at the heart of it is the April 11th letter, a federal document telling a private institution

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how to govern, who to hire, and how to think.

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That's not reform, that's redesign.

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And it's not just about anti-Semitism.

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It's a blueprint for intellectual control.

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You know, reduce the power of certain faculty based on ideology.

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That's not campus safety.

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That's speech regulation dressed up as a discipline.

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You're exactly right.

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Garber's smartest move so far has been to keep pointing back to that letter because when

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people actually read it, it's hard not to see that it's overreach.

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That's the challenge in this politicized media environment.

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You have to keep re-centering the unrestable thing where else the debate shifts to your reaction

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instead of to their demand.

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In a weird way, I'd say this is a test of narrative stamina.

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Can Harvard keep anchoring the story in what was asking of them?

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And everyone else is trying to shift the frame to how they responded.

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Great.

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This is a question I have for you:

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From an outsider's non-academic perspective like mine, I have to wonder if this is one

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of those things that only Harvard could do.

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They're the oldest college in the country, the richest university in the world.

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We won't get into a debate about prestige, but they're on a very short list.

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Could an institution like Columbia or UCLA or the University of Minnesota - all of whom

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are on Trump's hit list -

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Could any of them or their peers have been just as defiant and rallied the troops as effectively?

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Or did it have to be Harvard?

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It's a great question.

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I think the honest answer is probably not in the same way, but maybe in their own way.

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The challenge is that Harvard has a sense of institutional gravity that a lot of universities

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simply don't have.

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When they speak, it ripples, not just an acudeme, but across business politics, philanthropy,

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media.

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That kind of cultural capital that gives you a lot of room to take a swing without immediately

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getting flattened by the backlash.

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Now at the same time, you can't let that be an excuse, right?

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There are things that Columbia can do, that UCLA can do, Minnesota can do, and any institution

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that can reframe an attack on them as an attack on something bigger - on education, speech,

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autonomy - they can mount a credible defense.

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And they might not get 150 universities to rally behind them overnight, but they

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could build legitimacy through clarity.

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So yeah, Harvard had the runway.

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They did just lean on the prestige, they used it strategically.

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Now they framed this around systems and not status, research, medicine, constitutional

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rights, national interest.

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I mean, these are the things that make it resonate beyond the Harvard bubble.

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And I think that part is replicable.

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So yeah, sure, they did have the runway, but what they did with it, that's the playbook.

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And I think the real takeaway here is that institutions don't need to be elite to be effective.

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They just need to be principled.

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They need to be consistent.

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And Harvard just happened to be the first one out of the gate with all three, you know,

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being principled, strategic, and consistent.

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They definitely broke out of this trap that other institutions we saw last summer.

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I think it was with all the congressional hearings, just like not being able to finally

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draw that line and say no more and then go on, you know, while still on defense go on offense

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to take control of the situation.

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Yeah.

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I want to talk about the support that they're getting from other universities in a second,

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but the tactician in me cannot let this one thing go.

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There was one flaw in Harvard's execution last week that was, it was not very consequential

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in the end, but I think it was somewhat telling about the balance that Harvard is trying

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to strike and those of us in communications, you know I think recognize the situation

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that they ended up in.

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But here's what it was, on Monday the 14th when Harvard first responded to that White House

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letter with real defiance, a really well written letter.

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Garber told his community, the initial quote was, "The university will not negotiate over

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its independence or its constitutional rights."

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On the Harvard website, his letter was edited to read (that line instead said), "The university

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will not surrender its independence or relinquish its constitutional rights."

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I think the first version "will not negotiate" was in an email and the second "will not surrender"

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was public facing on their site.

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I don't think that Harvard was looking to signal any more flexibility with that change,

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but this theme of engagement seems very important.

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And I think it's because you seem unreasonable if you won't come to the table at all, if

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you say we will not negotiate.

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So it was an edit for tone-

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"We won't negotiate."

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Right.

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It was a little crisper, but "we won't surrender" is just as strong and felt like maybe it was

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meant to embrace dialogue.

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But just from an execution standpoint, when I got an alert about that change, I thought,

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"Oh geez, like that's going to look like a backpedal."

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And it's really hard to get away with that, making a change after you've released the

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message.

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But clearly it was important.

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And that messaging has been so consistent and strong on not surrendering, not compromising

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that it hasn't hurt them.

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I think it's a good reminder for every corporate communications team out there, tone is not

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just dialogue strategy, especially in moments like this when you're under public scrutiny.

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The difference between defiance and dignity is often... it could be just one line of copy.

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And we've seen this in Boardrooms too.

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Some companies want to sound strong and sometimes they overshoot, they go out with a statement that's

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too sharp or too closed and then they have to walk it back a little bit.

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And that might make the milk a little weaker than if they just said less.

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But what Harvard did in that edit, we won't negotiate too, we won't surrender.

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That's a kind of calibration that matters.

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It protected their red line, it invited continued dialogue.

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And I would say that's what good corporate affairs strategy does.

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It defends the boundary, but it also keeps the door open because once you lose tone, you're

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going to lose trust and not just with your critics, but with your own people.

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And we should point out the language that Harvard has been using is really strong and clear.

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Everything they are saying is rooted in the stakes.

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What's at stake?

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Constitutional rights, academic independence.

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The long-term benefits of academic research, especially in medicine.

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These are broad and sweeping, but they're not hyperbolic.

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They're about shared values and they're not abstract.

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They mention Parkinson's research, Alzheimer's, diabetes.

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Harvard says the government is threatening the health of millions of people and that's hard

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to ignore.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And what's striking is how consistently Harvard has linked language to consequences that matter.

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They're not just using slogans, they're using stakes and not abstract ones.

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Concrete measurable ones.

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Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, battlefield medicine, that kind of research that doesn't

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just advance knowledge, it extends lives.

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And that's doing more than just moral positioning, to type of systems framing, if you will.

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They're not just reminding the public and regulators here that this isn't just about one institution

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being defined,

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it's about what happens when government overreach interrupt systems that benefit everyone.

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And I think that's a very different kind of appeal. It's not just 'protect Harvard'.

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It understands what Harvard enables and what they've done, which I think is what a lot of

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corporate leaders can learn from here is they've avoided the temptation to center the institution

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itself.

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They've centered impact.

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Yeah, it's not about being self-important.

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That's it.

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Yes.

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Right.

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And when you do that, you're not just defending the brand, you're defending a benefit.

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And the language just flows naturally from that posture.

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Let's talk about the other universities now.

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I think it's over 400 who have signed on to that message that came out the day after Harvard

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made its big stand with the lawsuit.

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I think the defiance of Harvard's stance is really important.

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But it may be just as significant that this was the week that colleges and universities

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started taking collective action.

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And I think it looks to be a very effective way to counter this White House's approach.

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The academics working together and maybe some signs that businesses might be ready to as

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well from some other developments this week.

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Could we be looking at a different equation?

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Because I think up until this week, as Harvard takes this stand and the other university stand

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up for the promise of higher education in Harvard's words, it's a really important departure

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from what we've been seeing and how others have dealt with the Trump administration to

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date, which is basically, if I can cut a deal for myself, I'm going to do it

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and the rest of the industry or the rest of the economy, they can figure it out for themselves.

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The white shoe law firms, I think are probably the best example of that or the worst depending

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on how you look at it.

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But now we have the universities taking collective action and it feels to me like this could

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be a different equation.

303
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Yeah, that's right.

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And what you're describing is the shift from fragmentation to formation.

305
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Trump's approach has always relied on isolating institutions.

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Find the weak point, apply pressure and make the response look like an overreaction.

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It's intimidation by fragmentation.

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And for a while, it worked, right?

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Schools, companies and even industries have backed off because they didn't want to stand alone.

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But what we saw this week was a different kind of posture.

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Collective institutional defense, right?

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You know, first Harvard steps up, then Columbia, then MIT, then the University of Minnesota.

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And suddenly now, you know, you've got 400 university presidents saying this isn't about

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Harvard.

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It's about higher education.

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That, I think, reframes entire encounter.

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It stops it being a referendum on one school and becomes a challenge to the legitimacy

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of the pressure itself.

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And, you know, if business joins in, not politically, but structurally around

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research, innovation and shared values, then the train can shift again because now it's

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not about whether one university will comply,

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it's about whether this whole idea of public / private partnerships can operate under political

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threat.

324
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And that's a much harder question for the administration to answer.

325
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Yeah.

326
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And it's a much easier place for institutions to align without looking partisan.

327
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Yeah.

328
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,920
The Trump team loves this "flood the zone" approach where they have so many outrageous things

329
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,560
going on at once that the press can't keep up, let alone the rest of the audience.

330
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This is the first time I think that we've seen a serious, multi-prong pushback.

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And I wonder how the White House is going to keep up with the sustained battle - if they

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can sustain it - against consistent messaging.

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Harvard has 400 universities and countless voices out there lining up under this banner of

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the promise of higher education, freedom of speech, health research, and all the benefits

335
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,760
of that brings.

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They could, I think because of all the voices, they can keep that fresh and keep making

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consistent points.

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The White House...Trump signed another executive order on Wednesday.

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I think it was targeting admissions.

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00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,200
He's out on his Twitter-lookalike, calling Harvard anti-Semitic.

341
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But I don't see anything in the White House playbook except more pressure and more doubling

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down.

343
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And that's not to dismiss those things.

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It's just, I think it's likely going to feel like even more overreach, which would play

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into Harvard's strategy.

346
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This is where it flips, right?

347
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Trump's model has always been about movement without message.

348
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Create enough chaos that clarity becomes impossible.

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And Harvard didn't try to just match the volume.

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They matched it with message consistency and that's much harder to counter.

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The real reversal here is that the longer the White House keeps throwing new threats:

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executive orders, new accusations, loyalty tests- the more they start to sound erratic.

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Meanwhile, Harvard keeps saying the same thing in different ways with more people.

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This is about research, this is about speech, this is about how institutions function in

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the democracy.

356
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And I think that's what's giving the response more power.

357
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It's not escalation, it's repetition with discipline.

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And there's examples of that at every one of these, I'm sure, 400 plus universities

359
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:25,920
who have signed on, which means there could be a local story there.

360
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,640
There could be a trend in a certain area of research.

361
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:34,560
And anyone who's tried to orchestrate a campaign like this, and we don't have any insight

362
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:39,080
about how much coordination Harvard's actually doing behind the scenes, but when you run something

363
00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:44,800
like this, one of the first things you look for is supporters, surrogates.

364
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:50,600
Prominent people who can keep the conversation going, write those op-eds, appear on television,

365
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,000
demonstrate the support for your position.

366
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:59,640
And I can't think of an institution in this country that has a more potent network of surrogates

367
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than Harvard.

368
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:01,640
Totally.

369
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,600
And what's impressive is that they're not overplaying it.

370
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They're using the circuit network strategically.

371
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,920
They're not flooding the zone with big names, but letting those validators surface organically

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in ways that feel credible, not coordinated.

373
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,400
I think that's a hard balance to strike.

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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,520
We've got op-eds, interviews, legal minds, former cabinet members, all reinforcing the

375
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:23,560
core narrative without stepping in.

376
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,560
That's key, right?

377
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,880
You don't want to have circuits introducing new messages.

378
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,120
You want them to repeat, amplify, and lend legitimacy.

379
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:31,120
Yeah.

380
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,160
And here's the broader point.

381
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:38,640
Most institutions might not have Harvard's rolodex, but every organization has got some

382
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,000
form of a circuit ecosystem.

383
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,360
Alumni, former exec, strategic partners, people with credibility, yes, suppliers, right?

384
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:48,360
Yeah.

385
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,800
People whose credibility carry weight with key audiences.

386
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:56,520
The question is whether or not who they are and whether or not you're prepared to use

387
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,200
them in a moment like this, because when the heat comes - and it will - you're not going

388
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:02,200
to have time to recruit.

389
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:07,160
You need to have people art at position to speak, not just on your behalf, but on behalf

390
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,640
of the principles that you share.

391
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:10,640
Yeah.

392
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,800
I think the configuration in this instance with the academic institutions that we talked

393
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:21,360
about collective action, and so it's more like peers, rather than someone whose business

394
00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:27,080
is dependent on, let's say, a company that's running a campaign like this.

395
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:35,720
But I think we are seeing perhaps the signs of more collective like action in the private

396
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:36,720
sector.

397
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:43,360
We talked on this podcast about GM and Stellantis directly with Trump over tariffs, but

398
00:23:43,360 --> 00:23:47,320
we've heard of some companies and sectors supposedly getting exemptions for themselves from the

399
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:48,320
tarot.

400
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,480
A really interesting story in Bloomberg had this week about a major Coca-Cola, Cola bottler

401
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,080
who had given money to Trump.

402
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,840
Anyway, on the same day that Harvard sued Trump met in the Oval Office with who CEOs of

403
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:06,640
Target, Walmart, Home Depot, private meeting, so very different, I think.

404
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,280
Their message reportedly was about higher prices in this summer of scarcity that we've

405
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,840
started to hear about empty shelves with a possibility of empty shelves at big box retailers.

406
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:24,040
So maybe we are seeing other signs that industry is going to be more likely to take this collective

407
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,040
approach.

408
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:30,600
Well, let me make one other point here about this notion of collective action because the

409
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,880
colleges and universities, I think, have really landed on something here.

410
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:40,300
And that is, you know, the targets are one thing, but this is a group of peers who are each

411
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:41,780
finding themselves in the same situation.

412
00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:47,780
And they have finally found a voice and a sort of rally round effect here thanks to Harvard.

413
00:24:47,780 --> 00:24:54,660
I wonder what lessons the business community can take from this because they have approached

414
00:24:54,660 --> 00:24:55,660
it very differently.

415
00:24:55,660 --> 00:25:01,140
I think with the most important thing from a tactical point of view is that Harvard has

416
00:25:01,140 --> 00:25:06,660
broken out of the pattern we've seen of institutions and companies dealing with this

417
00:25:06,660 --> 00:25:11,260
administration, which has basically been, if I can cut a deal for myself, I'm going to do

418
00:25:11,260 --> 00:25:14,980
it and everybody else can figure it out for themselves.

419
00:25:14,980 --> 00:25:19,820
We've talked on this podcast about GM and Stellantis dealing directly with Trump over

420
00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:21,020
tariffs.

421
00:25:21,020 --> 00:25:26,540
We've heard of other companies and other sectors supposedly getting exemptions for themselves.

422
00:25:26,540 --> 00:25:31,180
I think there's an interesting contrast to draw here because on the same day that Harvard

423
00:25:31,180 --> 00:25:37,300
sued Monday of this week, Trump met in the Oval Office with the CEOs of Target, Walmart

424
00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:43,580
and Home Depot together and reportedly their message was a unified one about higher prices

425
00:25:43,580 --> 00:25:45,140
coming because of tariffs.

426
00:25:45,140 --> 00:25:49,260
And this concept of summer of scarcity that we've started to hear about that there may be

427
00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:52,300
empty shelves at the big box retailers.

428
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:59,820
And I just wonder if there's going to be signs of a different approach here for business.

429
00:25:59,820 --> 00:26:04,780
Yeah, I think that's probably the cleanest contrast that you could ask for.

430
00:26:04,780 --> 00:26:09,460
On one side of Pennsylvania Avenue, you've got Harvard saying, we're drawing a constitutional

431
00:26:09,460 --> 00:26:13,460
line in the sand and on the other, you've got CEOs walking into the Oval Office saying,

432
00:26:13,460 --> 00:26:16,540
let's talk supply chains.

433
00:26:16,540 --> 00:26:20,460
Neither approach is wrong in its own, but if they tell you everything you need to know

434
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:24,820
about the current playbook for power, if you're not aligned politically, you better be

435
00:26:24,820 --> 00:26:26,660
aligned economically.

436
00:26:26,660 --> 00:26:30,980
What makes this moment so striking is that it shows two different models for access.

437
00:26:30,980 --> 00:26:36,820
Harvard's betting on principled resistance to find the institution, protect the system,

438
00:26:36,820 --> 00:26:40,540
and the big box CEOs, that's transactional navigation.

439
00:26:40,540 --> 00:26:45,900
Stay in the room, protect the margins, but both are trying to manage the chaos and both

440
00:26:45,900 --> 00:26:48,940
are trying to do so using totally different instruments.

441
00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:52,460
But they're both showing strength and numbers, I think, as much as the point I was trying

442
00:26:52,460 --> 00:26:53,460
to make.

443
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:54,860
They're both showing strength and numbers.

444
00:26:54,860 --> 00:27:01,100
But let's be honest, corporate America has largely at this point, try to stay out of the ideological

445
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:06,020
line of fire this time around, and that came at a cost because if you're not careful,

446
00:27:06,020 --> 00:27:12,340
the silence starts to look like complicity or worse opportunism and this climate, what

447
00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:16,180
you get seen that way, your license, stop rate can evaporate overnight.

448
00:27:16,180 --> 00:27:18,620
So I think the contrast is vivid.

449
00:27:18,620 --> 00:27:21,780
Harvard's showing lines, big business is cutting deals.

450
00:27:21,780 --> 00:27:43,460
And it's not just about their ability to work together or to elicit so much support from other

451
00:27:43,460 --> 00:27:44,700
universities.

452
00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:49,260
I was impressed with the letter they wrote in the first place, just circling back to where

453
00:27:49,260 --> 00:27:50,700
we began, right?

454
00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:57,020
The whole idea of that they're not going to take Trump's charge to them, a non-disclosure

455
00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:58,020
agreement, right?

456
00:27:58,020 --> 00:27:59,780
That they're going to handle this behind the scenes.

457
00:27:59,780 --> 00:28:01,260
They were very open.

458
00:28:01,260 --> 00:28:03,060
They put the letter out there.

459
00:28:03,060 --> 00:28:08,180
They stood firm in their principles and they're allowing everyone else to see it for themselves.

460
00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:10,740
That's something any other company could do.

461
00:28:10,740 --> 00:28:15,060
And I wonder if we might be in a different place if other companies had been willing to

462
00:28:15,060 --> 00:28:16,060
do that.

463
00:28:16,060 --> 00:28:17,060
Maybe, maybe not.

464
00:28:17,060 --> 00:28:23,340
I mean, maybe Harvard might have given the size of, given their size based on the size of

465
00:28:23,340 --> 00:28:30,340
their downwind and also the number of the alumni that they have infusing all throughout society

466
00:28:30,340 --> 00:28:32,060
and throughout the world.

467
00:28:32,060 --> 00:28:38,820
I think the key there is the message is rock solid and it was clear, like I said, bright

468
00:28:38,820 --> 00:28:39,820
line.

469
00:28:39,820 --> 00:28:41,820
This is a hard no.

470
00:28:41,820 --> 00:28:46,740
But in addition, what it signaled was, it was an acknowledgement that what they'd been

471
00:28:46,740 --> 00:28:52,900
trying wasn't working and they needed to do something else if they wanted to break out

472
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:53,900
of this limbo.

473
00:28:53,900 --> 00:28:55,660
Well, who's the they?

474
00:28:55,660 --> 00:28:56,660
Harvard.

475
00:28:56,660 --> 00:29:00,780
I and the other colleges and universities who have been stuck in this trap and they get

476
00:29:00,780 --> 00:29:03,780
hold in front of Congress and then they're, you know, the next thing you know, they're

477
00:29:03,780 --> 00:29:09,860
university president is out and it just feels like, you know, capitulation on important

478
00:29:09,860 --> 00:29:17,820
issues that were also reducing, you know, their standing and their ability to fight this because

479
00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:20,940
I think maybe they were kind of trying to do it halfway.

480
00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:26,260
And I remember reading that there was, you know, a movement inside of Harvard by hundreds

481
00:29:26,260 --> 00:29:32,540
of members of the faculty essentially saying like, it is time to fight back.

482
00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:34,620
And I think that's what we saw this week.

483
00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:39,140
I think that's, you know, the dual frame that they've got a whole principle and consequence.

484
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:45,620
If it's just about values, it starts to sound at risk sounding a little abstract, but if

485
00:29:45,620 --> 00:29:47,620
it's only about money, it's the same time, right?

486
00:29:47,620 --> 00:29:48,620
It sounds self interested.

487
00:29:48,620 --> 00:29:49,620
And it sounds worse.

488
00:29:49,620 --> 00:29:51,300
Yeah, even worse, right?

489
00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:55,220
But when you put them together, constitutional overreach on one side and cancer trials on

490
00:29:55,220 --> 00:29:58,580
the other, then I think that's when the public starts to get it.

491
00:29:58,580 --> 00:30:02,940
And to your point, look, they're still on defense, but it doesn't feel like retreat.

492
00:30:02,940 --> 00:30:03,940
Yeah.

493
00:30:03,940 --> 00:30:04,940
You know, it feels like resolve.

494
00:30:04,940 --> 00:30:05,940
Yeah.

495
00:30:05,940 --> 00:30:06,940
And that's what's rare.

496
00:30:06,940 --> 00:30:09,740
Final thoughts from the professor?

497
00:30:09,740 --> 00:30:15,100
I would say you look when most institutions, when they're under this kind of pressure, they're

498
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:19,860
either going to law you up and go quiet or they over-correct and they spend those cell

499
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:22,740
center corner and Harvard's done either one of these.

500
00:30:22,740 --> 00:30:25,300
They've stayed in the conversation.

501
00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:29,580
They've kept their tone steady and they've kept asking the public to read the letter.

502
00:30:29,580 --> 00:30:31,620
I think that's the move.

503
00:30:31,620 --> 00:30:32,820
What's next?

504
00:30:32,820 --> 00:30:39,700
I think it depends on other institutions treating this as Harvard's fight or if it's the rehearsal.

505
00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:41,860
This playbook won't stay on campus.

506
00:30:41,860 --> 00:30:47,700
The idea that you can engineer compliance or public funding or reputational pressure or

507
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,500
loyalty signaling, that's not going to go away.

508
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:54,380
I think the only question is who's ready for it when it shows up at their doorstep?

509
00:30:54,380 --> 00:30:56,380
Yeah, I agree.

510
00:30:56,380 --> 00:31:00,580
Harvard's approach here, I think, is packed with lessons for communicating through a crisis

511
00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:03,460
and turning the tables on an attack.

512
00:31:03,460 --> 00:31:04,700
They're still on defense.

513
00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:06,140
That's a key message.

514
00:31:06,140 --> 00:31:10,460
They didn't start this fight but with the moves that they've made over this past week,

515
00:31:10,460 --> 00:31:15,300
they've shifted from simple self-defense to a really principled stand.

516
00:31:15,300 --> 00:31:18,780
As I said, they're credible rather than cornered.

517
00:31:18,780 --> 00:31:20,540
They've found their narrative.

518
00:31:20,540 --> 00:31:22,020
They're getting ahead of the critics.

519
00:31:22,020 --> 00:31:24,180
They're rallying support.

520
00:31:24,180 --> 00:31:28,460
I don't know what Trump's going to come back with, but I said earlier, Harvard needs to

521
00:31:28,460 --> 00:31:33,660
keep that concept of government overreach at the center of this for the principle.

522
00:31:33,660 --> 00:31:34,660
And the rest of us.

523
00:31:34,660 --> 00:31:38,740
Yeah, and they've got to keep talking about the negative impact of the funding freeze for

524
00:31:38,740 --> 00:31:40,380
the practical.

525
00:31:40,380 --> 00:31:45,700
In closing out here, I think the chief concern that I have is we're doing a podcast where

526
00:31:45,700 --> 00:31:51,260
Harvard is in the center of it is the idea that any organization says, "Well, we're not

527
00:31:51,260 --> 00:31:52,260
Harvard.

528
00:31:52,260 --> 00:31:53,260
We can't do that.

529
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:54,260
An only Harvard could do this."

530
00:31:54,260 --> 00:31:58,700
For me, it circles back to the idea that when you don't have resources, you have to be

531
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:00,100
resourceful.

532
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:05,300
Every organization can think about the resources they have, the capacity they have, but it starts

533
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:09,700
with the belief that there's something that they can do and that they have the power to

534
00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:11,420
think creatively.

535
00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:14,460
And with clarity about, "Okay, what's the end goal?

536
00:32:14,460 --> 00:32:16,300
What are we trying to accomplish here?"

537
00:32:16,300 --> 00:32:17,300
Yeah.

538
00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:22,220
You got to plant the flag, draw the line, choose your metaphor, and really stick to it, commit

539
00:32:22,220 --> 00:32:23,380
to it.

540
00:32:23,380 --> 00:32:28,500
And figure out how you can be consistent in that message and in that stand.

541
00:32:28,500 --> 00:32:33,740
And so far, I think we've seen Harvard and now 400 other universities rallying to it, so

542
00:32:33,740 --> 00:32:34,740
we'll see where it ends up.

543
00:32:34,740 --> 00:32:36,980
Well, that's our show for this week.

544
00:32:36,980 --> 00:32:42,140
We want to thank Shawn P Neal and the team at AdvoCast as well as the People Forward Network

545
00:32:42,140 --> 00:32:44,540
for making our podcast possible.

546
00:32:44,540 --> 00:32:47,900
If you have comments or suggestions for the podcast, we'd love to hear from you.

547
00:32:47,900 --> 00:32:53,300
Our email address is podcast@ocrnetwork.com.

548
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:57,060
And breakdown is a production of the Observatory on Corporate Reputation.

549
00:32:57,060 --> 00:32:58,380
I'm Steve Dowling.

550
00:32:58,380 --> 00:32:59,380
And I'm Craig Carroll.

551
00:32:59,380 --> 00:33:00,380
Thanks for listening.

552
00:33:00,380 --> 00:33:01,140
We'll be back next week.

553
00:33:01,220 --> 00:33:11,140
[MUSIC]

554
00:33:11,140 --> 00:33:21,140
#Harvard #AcademicFreedom #FirstAmendment #ConstitutionalRights #HigherEducation #UniversityIndependence #CrisisCommunication #PublicRelations #CorporateReputation #ChaosManagement #FreeSpeech #DEI #GovernmentOverreach #StrategicCommunication #PRStrategy #LeadershipCommunication #InstitutionalIntegrity #HigherEd #UniversitySupport #CollectiveAction #NarrativeControl #TrumpAdministration #MediaStrategy #StakeholderEngagement #ReputationManagement #CommunicationBreakdown #AdvoCast #ShawnPNeal

555
00:33:21,140 --> 00:33:31,140
Harvard, Trump, PR strategy, academic freedom, government overreach, collective action, communication, crisis management, institutional response, higher education