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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Told you he is, folks.

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It's so time.

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People pay good money to see this movie.

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When they go out to a theater, they

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want cold sewage, a hot pop plorn, and no monsters

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in the projection booth.

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Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.

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Then it'll launch.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Every day, Jacob Singer goes to work.

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That's wrong.

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That's one of those tests.

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And every day, he wonders what is happening to him.

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It reads the pressure, Jake.

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I like it.

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Deepens, Jeff.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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You're wearing a helmet.

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But what a Jake.

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Look at your hand.

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Yeah, there is James Lines.

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See, according to this, you're already dead.

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[CHEERING]

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Sometimes wrong, Jake.

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They're coming after me.

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I don't know who they are.

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But what they are, they're going to get me.

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And I'm scared, Jake.

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See, not too.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Maybe the demons are real.

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20, 10, 6, speeders.

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This is far better.

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I can get rid of the demons.

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Oh, I feel like I'm blocked the ladder.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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[INAUDIBLE]

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Who are you taking?

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Well, but what do you want to go?

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I'm a sazer of all your dead.

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My dead.

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What are you, then?

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I'm all right.

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[MUSIC PLAYING]

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Welcome to the projection booth at my house, Mike White.

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Join me once again, is Mr. Steven Scarlata.

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Don't bury me.

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I'm not dead.

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Wrong, Luz.

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I couldn't find a good one.

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Oh, geez.

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I'll also back in the booth is Mr. Yaneev Edelstein,

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who completely forgot about the vanity intro, but high folks.

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And this special episode of the projection booth,

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we are looking at Adrienne Lines 1990 film, "Jick Obslatter."

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It's the story of Jake and singer played by Tim Robbins,

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who's platoon of Vietnam as attacked by unknown forces.

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He suffers from flashbacks of this horrific event

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in the 1970s New York, where he's left his wife

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and is living with his coworker, Jisabel, played by Elizabeth Pena.

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He is played as well by horrific visions of demons.

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Is Jacob going mad?

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Is he a victim of a government plot?

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Or is it something else entirely?

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Of course, we are going to be answering those questions,

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ruining this movie for people that haven't seen it before.

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You have been warned.

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So Stephen, when was the first time you saw Jacob Slatter in what did you think?

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Yeah, I was definitely aware this movie was coming out.

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I was going to the movies a lot during that time period.

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I saw the teaser trailer, which was very interesting.

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And I was a huge horror fan, so I was excited for it.

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It was in Fangoria.

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I couldn't talk my friend into seeing it, so he went to see Marks for Death

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instead, but after Marks for Death, I managed to sneak in

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for a couple of minutes waiting for my ride.

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And then I eventually watched it on VHS when it came out and I loved it.

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And then I came on Showtime and they showed these deleted scenes.

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They had this whole half hour special after it premiered and had the deleted scenes

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and interviews.

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And I was the first time ever experienced anything like that in like 1991.

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There was no, I didn't have a laser display or anything.

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And it was interesting.

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I left the movie off there and I didn't return back to it until like maybe 10 years ago.

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It was the fifth movie in a six movie marathon.

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And seeing it on the big screen, that's when I really understood it.

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And I got it.

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You know, knowing the ending and being able to pay attention to it.

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And it completely blew my mind.

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Whereas in adult, as a kid, I liked it because I liked horror.

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And it felt my liked adult horror.

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As a kid when they put real stars in horror movies.

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You'll call them thrillers.

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But as an adult, that's when it really emotionally hit me.

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And I was able to really concentrate on it.

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And you know, how about yourself?

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I'm the newcomer.

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I just watched it.

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We can have a go or something.

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And it was very pleasantly deprived of how well it aged.

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It was fucking scary.

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It was a nightmare.

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Like a non-ending nightmare of like endless unfolding or as it looked great.

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The practical effects are all fantastic.

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And the fact that you only get really tiny glintes of really horrifying things all the time.

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So really fantastic direction.

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I think I'm a new sort of convert to Adrian Linde and who was not a guy,

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considered like a like I'm very impressed by his work.

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Really impressively done like very meticulous and super scary and super creepy.

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And just today I watched those deleted things today.

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And even just those by themselves are fantastic things you're used to seeing the

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deleted scenes that like sort of have sort of thrown together.

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But this scene that he did scene with is horrifying ceiling demon was completely fucking nuts.

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What a beautiful sort of insane horror ride of like ghost ride.

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Yeah, you are a lay camera to this.

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But I am quickly behind you.

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I didn't see this until maybe about six months ago.

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I remember maybe I saw it when it was working at the movie theater because 1990 would have been when I was working

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at the start theater down Taylor Michigan.

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I would do a lot of aisle checks, which is where you go in there looking for like you know people lighting up

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or being loud or putting their feet on the seats and basically as an as sure you're making

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just above minimum wage.

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So all you do is you stand in the back.

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You kind of look around a little bit see if there's anybody smoking and otherwise you're just watching the movie for a little while.

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So as I watch this, I was like, okay, yeah, this is familiar.

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I don't think I had ever seen this before.

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This was such an unusual film for Adrian Lyne to do because at this point he had done flash dance nine and a half weeks

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fatal attraction.

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He would go on to do in decent proposal, a lead and it was so was all these like kind of a rotting thriller type of things like

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fatal attraction, definitely in decent proposal kind of if there was just such a strange strange movie and then Jacob's latter right in the middle of this and it's like, okay, this is an interesting thing.

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And this is the same year in 1990 that ghost is coming out written by the same guy written by Bruce Joel Ruben and so you're kind of getting like two sides of the same coin

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between these like spiritual movies where you have your main characters are dead.

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But they don't let you know that your main character is dead and Jacob's latter until pretty much the very end of the film.

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So this is one of those puzzle films that procedures things like the sixth sense, though it comes after things such as a current at our creep bridge or a paranormal

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of souls where your main character is going through a whole lot of shit and not realizing why he's going through it is that he's been dead all along.

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I had the ending spoiled for me just by general pop culture.

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I don't know that somebody spoiled it for me.

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It just became kind of known that this is the movie where it's the incident outbreak,

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bridge kind of thing in the movie, but actually it wasn't that bad that it was spoiled because it's not like the sixth sense in the sense that the sixth sense completely hinges just on the reveal at the end.

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And it's just killing time, open for the place that the end.

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This movie, having knowing that the twist doesn't ruin it at all because it's a bit such a specific house or horrors that just knowing that besides I think a viewer with our sensibilities in 2023.

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We've stretched enough to realize it anyway right at the beginning, you know, he's on a, he wakes up on a subway car and it says hell on an ad and it's a little bit, I mean for today it's a bit on the nose.

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It wasn't for the time. It's not a cheesy movie.

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Most of it aged super well for me it's a detail. The fact that he's dead is a detail because a lot of it is open to interpretation so it doesn't ruin it.

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And I hear, yeah, the funny enough was the ending was spoiled for me too and I was a kid because someone on my block, I believe sort it and he was just like, I'm really so stupid.

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The whole thing is just a dream and he's dead. I was like, oh man, so I never got to experience it the way, you know, either being able to kind of bum me out.

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But like I said, you know, as I sort it later on, knowing that in the back of my head and watching it, there's so much to digest. There's so many clues.

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And like you said, the opening subway thing was something I noticed when I was a kid and twice saw later.

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It's like, you know, immediately you have the hell thing. And then if you really look closely and pause it, there's also a thing about drugs in there and the saying that eludes to later on and the same thing with the other sign.

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It's the big apple and the apple being a religious thing also religious symbolism. And then there's also the word die in that billboard too on the train.

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And then also there's another symbol thing on the train, which is when he sees the homeless man above him is a sign that talks about the baby is dying in 3b, you know, and it's like again foreshadowing his son like it's so brilliant.

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These little things peppered into this movie as you're rewatching it knowing the ending.

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But I like even before that when we've got the scene of Vietnam and you've got the helicopters going and they've got one of them has like a stretcher and a meat it or like cargo underneath it and that's going to basically be him in a little bit.

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Like he's going to be airlifted out of there after he gets stabbed in the guts by one of his fellow soldiers and just that scene itself is so terrifying where you've got the guys and they're just around bullshitting,

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making fun of each other and it's so interesting to see like young things, young, a true killer Vince, young, airclaus, all of these very familiar faces and out of nowhere they just start having these fits in the one guy who just start spinning around like a durbish and you've got the other guys like slams down on the ground is having all these convulsions and you're like what the hell is happening and then it suddenly like a firefight breaks out.

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And it's just mass confusion. I'd love the way that he shoots this as well with this canned held camera just running through all of this and you know like 1990 we're pretty in year to Vietnam films is just like oh okay and then when we.

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I couldn't quote have you know show that it's a flashback but it's actually not when he wakes up on that subway car it's like oh boy there's another story about you know crazy veteran or veteran who had a whole lot of problems and he's brought those back with them to now.

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When the movie starts I'm just like is this 1990 is this the year that the movie's coming out but then later on it's like oh you we haven't talked to each other in like five six years and they very specifically say this is 1970 at the beginning so I'm like oh this is a period piece but it takes me a long time because they don't really just like ham it up with like

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this go music and trappings of 1970s you don't see you don't see like Nick Sairner forward on the TV you see Orson Bean on the TV and like a re while I thought it was a re-run but it was probably the first time airing up to tell the truth and it's like oh okay so this is mid 70s but line is really nice to not just like beach you over the head with it.

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I know dude you're so right about that because for years I thought the movie was taking place and the time it came out and then eventually I found this note that Adrian what's in like there was a screenplay book of Jacob's ladder.

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There's a note from Adrian Lynn to his like crew just kind of saying like yo this movie is set in 1975 Brooklyn you know and in for example if the New York Knicks won the championship in 1975 we should not mention it because Jacob would not be able to know that.

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So he put out this note to like let the casting crew know that you know you know and like the song they use in that one dance sequence like everything he had a it's such a tiny detail but no one ever catches it either but it is there.

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Well I guess some smarter than you guys because I figured it out and I did it all the five years thing I just I could tell that it's the 70s just because of all the cars and thought I mean you could assume it comes out of the subway it's a really filthy and but with especially comes out you can see all the cars from the 70s and it's like.

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All the dirtier in New York but I guess I guess yeah I mean if you really want to go down that road then I guess if he died in 70 then it has to be 75 as imagined by a person who died in 70 you could have like whatever like a wrong details anyway.

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Like you said you wouldn't know but the next they did bother with that too much there's like really filthy and all the cars are really old and and you know said he's going back up to this rats everywhere.

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Which is just better for the stupid anyhow.

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It was written in 1980s but it feels like he was a 70s movie you know they made it's like a 70s movie that was made and you know that was shot in 1989.

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You know and so thank god New York still had that grime and grit to it production value and they shot it.

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On one hand it's that but on the other hand it's also pretty modern but I think it's like.

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But sure if it could have been a finance and be made if it weren't for like David Lynch I think the fact that we've held it.

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And it existed and it was ahead then something like this could get finance because it's incredibly weird.

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And it's a big budget sort of production for this kind of thing.

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When you think about it they could have made the plot so that it was just a normal feet cong clash type situation and then all the crazy insane stuff is all happening in his head and was just a normal fight.

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But they didn't do that they made even the circumstances of the blood bath be very weird and out there because in movies like this if you think like where's it evolves you know the edge goes back was all a dream and everybody's nice and everything's fine and gives you the sense of.

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And it's much more unsettling that even the framing device of the insanity is by self also saying of this desire it turns out to be this drug experiment and how could he know it is a drug experiment it's like everything in this movie.

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I mean I can see your neighbors frustration with like everything is a lie I mean everything is just being completely made up even though they have that title card at the end about this drug B.C.

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Was that really the case or not I who knows he shouldn't know any of that stuff in his head that's weird that the only thing that didn't said well of me is that weird title card.

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To sort of break away and let audience know something about the drug experiment which I don't understand it that's the only part that I don't get.

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I didn't either and add something that drove me crazy too is like where did this is this imagined B story come through I mean he must have had full the round with LSD to you know Jacob himself for it to.

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But he seems like very clean lace not to have done that but I think it's the ending when he does see that he was killed by his own soldier is what for me locks it in that it's all true because but that was something I was driving me crazy for a while too is like where did this this is the one thing that doesn't.

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Exense for me but then I think that's really the cap of it seeing that dude.

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The thing I was heard like growing up in the you know the 80s and stuff I mean Nancy Reagan and her old war on drugs was just insane like the.

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to just say, no campaign was fuckin' everywhere.

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It's like, you open up for conchating bar

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and there's, like, it don't say no message in there.

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Don't say yes or just say no, there it is.

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Just say, there you go.

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Message inside of there.

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- Terrible message, and you still can't get it straight.

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- Yeah, yeah. (laughing)

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- You would hear those horror stories of, like,

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"Oh yeah, don't do LSD because, you know,

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" Station system forever."

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You could like crack your back and then,

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all of a sudden, you have a flashback.

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And, you might freak out and jump off a building or something.

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So when he goes to his chiropractor,

204
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,880
Louie, the Daniela Elocharacter,

205
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,440
and he gets an adjustment at one point.

206
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,460
He gets a good old crack and then,

207
00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:15,360
"Ooh, it's like Vietnam flashback."

208
00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:16,840
And I was like, "Oh, there you go."

209
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:19,240
But it's like, no, no, now he's actually

210
00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,360
going from dream to reality.

211
00:17:21,360 --> 00:17:23,200
And I'd love the way that they flip that

212
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,400
and make the Vietnam stuff feel like a flashback,

213
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,440
but it's always the present time.

214
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,800
And the way this will be placed out,

215
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,160
basically, you could be playing out in real time

216
00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,400
between the time he gets stabbed and the time he dies.

217
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,160
It could be just less than two hours worth of time here.

218
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,560
- Oh yeah, and especially if you've done LSD,

219
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,680
the time that goes by when you look at your watch,

220
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:46,760
like, "Holy shit, that's only been 10 minutes.

221
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,080
I thought this been 40 minute, you know,

222
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,680
"cause just the fact that poor guy is dying,

223
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,360
"he's not only dying and going to really

224
00:17:55,360 --> 00:18:00,360
"pergatory v's also on the most extreme LSD

225
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,560
"coverment, literally LSD, trip ever,

226
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,280
"combining both of those, of course he's seeing demons in shit."

227
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,080
- There is basis and fact with government experimenting

228
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,280
on its own soldiers and some like,

229
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,320
"Okay, well this isn't too far out of the realm

230
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:17,480
"of possibilities.

231
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,160
"I mean the whole MK Ultra thing,

232
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,360
"I mean what the experiments that the government did

233
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,640
"black people were sick of, sick of,

234
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:27,360
"slamine, and NEMIA and all this."

235
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:30,400
And it's like, "Oh, okay, so like the BZ title card

236
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,000
"at the end, I was like, "All right, I guess this is kind of like

237
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,480
"saying, "Hey, yeah, there were really experiments,

238
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,840
"but then it's just so weird to put it on a fiction film.

239
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,080
"It feels almost like lip service."

240
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:44,120
- I think maybe the studio forces on M

241
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:47,120
or maybe some kind of focus group thing or something

242
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,120
like it just doesn't sit right, you're right.

243
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,600
I was surprised that BZ is even a real thing.

244
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,400
It would make more sense if we were to police

245
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,760
them made up drug, but it's actually a thing from reality.

246
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:57,320
So what's the point even?

247
00:18:57,320 --> 00:18:58,320
So bizarre.

248
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,680
- Yeah, I think the writer had an experience with LSD

249
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,320
like where he took it once,

250
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,600
it didn't have an effect, and I think it's his roommate

251
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:07,480
had a eyedropper of it.

252
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,600
And instead of giving them one drop, he gave him

253
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,480
like the whole entire dropper full of it,

254
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,880
and he had this intense trip out.

255
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,280
So I guess him being very influenced

256
00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,640
by the drug itself is probably why it's so intertwined

257
00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:21,920
in his script.

258
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,360
- That goes back to that deleted scene with antidote

259
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,640
where he has a dropper, he gives it one drop,

260
00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,680
and then he forces the whole thing on him.

261
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:29,600
- And then that was the thing,

262
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,920
when I saw this movie years later at that screening,

263
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,960
I was waiting for that scene to happen and never happened.

264
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:36,720
And for me, that's like one of the,

265
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,000
I wish those alternative cut to this movie

266
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,560
that had that scene in it and then had another deleted scene

267
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,360
with Jezzy transforming at the ending.

268
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:48,440
I think those two scenes, I don't know,

269
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,480
we can get to that later, but I was so bummed

270
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:53,480
that scene wasn't in the movie when I came back

271
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,720
to watch it later, because there were these

272
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,680
definite two set pieces that people don't forget

273
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:00,480
that will probably get into, but for me,

274
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:01,960
that was like the third one,

275
00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:05,160
that was like one of the ones that was so memorable to me.

276
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,200
- Well, this was really interesting

277
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,720
the whole timeline too when it comes to him

278
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,960
and his wife Sarah or ex-wife,

279
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:18,440
and it's like, are they not together in just the dream

280
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,400
that he's having or did they break up

281
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:21,960
before he went to Vietnam,

282
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,240
because there's this whole thing about his son, Gabriel,

283
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,400
dying, and I'm guessing I'm thinking that he must have died

284
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,000
before Jacob went to Vietnam,

285
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,840
and we have all of these flashes too,

286
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,200
and that's another mystery throughout the entire film

287
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,920
is how did he pass way, how did Gabriel pass way,

288
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,240
and you get all these little flashes of like,

289
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,680
when he's in the hospital, he sees this bicycle,

290
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,160
and you get just like these little moments of him talking

291
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,800
with Gabriel or like flashing back to Gabriel,

292
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,800
so it's like flashbacks within his flash forward

293
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,280
almost inside of his dream, which is great,

294
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:57,960
and there's that moment,

295
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,000
so he's like kind of living his life with Jezebel,

296
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,000
and we don't really know where she stands,

297
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,000
like she seems nice most of the time,

298
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,920
but when he wakes up with her

299
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:12,360
and she has these pictures and he gets really modeling

300
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,400
about these pictures of Sarah and his kids

301
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,280
and all this, and especially when he sees Gabriel,

302
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,120
who's played by a very young McColle Colkan,

303
00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,120
and then when she takes the photos and throws him away,

304
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:25,960
I'm just like, man, that's the worst thing to do,

305
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,640
and she's just like, I don't want to see you sad,

306
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,360
I don't want these pictures making you sad,

307
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:31,680
I'm just like, what a horrible person you are,

308
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,680
and that's like, I really searched down her intentions,

309
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,000
but then like, I forgive her fairly easily through this,

310
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,680
I don't know if it's because of Elizabeth Penia,

311
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,920
so charming or what, but yeah, we're supposed to think

312
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:44,880
throughout this whole thing,

313
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,200
like maybe she doesn't have his best interests in mind.

314
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,800
But also if it goes back to this thing with Danielle,

315
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,640
it was a very angelic character, right?

316
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,600
And he says, if you're frightened of dying,

317
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,840
you'll see devils tearing you apart,

318
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,280
if you've made your piece, then there are angels

319
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,120
free in you from the world.

320
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:04,680
Right, so in that sense,

321
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:06,120
Jezebel burning the pictures,

322
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:09,920
Jezebel burning the pictures is an angel free in from the world

323
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,240
and helping him to pass on, in the sense,

324
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,000
in that sense, it's more of a purgatory narrative

325
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:16,240
than a hell narrative.

326
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,040
I like it better that Jezebel or Jeze isn't exposed

327
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,280
as a demon because I think,

328
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,520
also I like it more, more it stays mysterious.

329
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,560
I also love the scene of, of it going down.

330
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,520
It's like an incinerator fire and I kind of like the idea

331
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,000
of the fire underneath where he's living with her too.

332
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,840
I just love that whole visual.

333
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,960
Yeah, there's a lot of going upstairs coming downstairs

334
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,920
or even the elevator at the beginning.

335
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,000
And I love that shot inside the elevator

336
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,840
with all the pennies inside of this grading

337
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:50,960
that there is.

338
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,600
Because there's another moment later on in the film

339
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,520
where it's him and purgatory events

340
00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,440
and they're out on the street and he sees a coin on the street.

341
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,680
And I was just like, oh, that's kind of

342
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,520
little cool call back and I don't know if that's

343
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,320
putting coins over the eyes of the dead type of thing

344
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,760
to pay the ferrymen to take you to the afterlife

345
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,240
or what that is.

346
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,400
But then I also like how he sees that coin on the street.

347
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:16,160
Oh, it's my lucky day.

348
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,600
And then that coin basically loan away

349
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,000
and the next time we cut down to the ground,

350
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,360
we have her Taylor vincices.

351
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:26,520
I guess it's like a sink Christopher metal.

352
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,120
So it almost gets replaced from coin to metal like that

353
00:23:30,120 --> 00:23:33,560
and I thought that was kind of a nice way of just showing that.

354
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,320
And then also just how long it takes for that explosion

355
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,960
to happen for her Taylor vincice to be blown up.

356
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,400
And that plays into this whole other thing

357
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,960
that we have going on in the movie,

358
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,800
which is these series of assassinations

359
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,600
and this government conspiracy cover up

360
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,800
of all these secret men taking him and throw them in a car

361
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,800
or trying to run them down on the street.

362
00:23:57,800 --> 00:23:59,200
And what is going on with this?

363
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,440
And we even have like a cover up with Jason Alexander later on.

364
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000
It's just like, he really they do a great job

365
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,480
of wrong footing you in this movie.

366
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,800
It's like, no, this is actually guy fantasizing about his

367
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,200
afterlife about death type of thing.

368
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,120
But then it's like all of these adventures

369
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:17,440
that he's imagining in his head.

370
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,360
Yeah, totally love him saying it's my lucky day

371
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:23,000
and going for that coin.

372
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,880
And it's almost like it fly.

373
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,200
I always sort as it's flying off screen towards the car for some reason.

374
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,000
And I think you nail it with the ferryman thing where it's like,

375
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,720
that's the coin to pay the ferryman for him to go.

376
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,360
I might might the areas is that him and all of these other,

377
00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:41,520
all of his other vets, they're all in the same

378
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:42,800
purgatory as him.

379
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,200
But that moment that was his time to go is when that happened.

380
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,560
That was my that's my theory on it.

381
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,240
For me, the let's explain that I just like it.

382
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,080
I mean, the park with all the veterans joining together to maybe

383
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,240
what higher Jason Alexander and then

384
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:02,760
prosecute the the Su the Marine Corps of thing.

385
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:07,200
It's the only like semblance of like a generic plot that this movie has.

386
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,680
But even that feels very off very weird.

387
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,560
And isn't it resolved in a traditional way, which is great?

388
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:20,200
The less and also one of the the other deleted scene with the antidote also puts a button on the whole.

389
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,200
There's an antidote.

390
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,000
There's a chemist.

391
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,200
I mean, the cab is to sell in the movie, but the antidote.

392
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,400
And you know, I could take a relief that part.

393
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,600
The more surreal it was, the more I enjoyed it.

394
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:34,600
Because it's very weird now without those deleted scenes when the chemist comes in and explains everything to him.

395
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,240
Because it's like the chemist explains everything to him.

396
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,920
And then he takes a cab and goes home.

397
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,440
And then it's, you know, the door man greeting him.

398
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:44,560
He goes upstairs.

399
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,600
And he goes in to the light.

400
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,720
And it's like it's like a solid after the guy after the chemist tells me the story.

401
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,320
It's almost like 15 20 minutes more of movie left where nothing else.

402
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,080
You know, crazy happens.

403
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:57,840
You know, it's just his acceptance.

404
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:03,120
But the antidote scene I like because it was just like, hey, here's your antidote.

405
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:05,800
And then he has this intense sequence.

406
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,400
Like I said, it's burned in my head forever.

407
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,000
And then of course, it doesn't work.

408
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:15,440
And then he has the confrontation, the final confrontation with the Jezzy.

409
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,080
And when he's looking at himself.

410
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,120
And I kind of like all that that leads him to his son going up this stairs.

411
00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:25,840
Like I said, I wish there was no turn to the contigo watch with those deleted scenes.

412
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,200
But I guess there was like a lot of stuff.

413
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:30,440
Even more than there was deleted scenes shot.

414
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,760
There was a making of this movie that I saw.

415
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:38,240
And there was like a scene that takes place in a bathroom stall in the beginning with

416
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,640
two men that was cut out of the movie.

417
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,480
Also Adrian Lynn said there is the dead scene of the chemist that was cut out of the movie.

418
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,280
Where he goes back to see him after the antidote doesn't work and he finds his head.

419
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:50,280
He's severed head.

420
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:51,280
I mean, I'm happy.

421
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,680
Maybe I don't need all that stuff, you know.

422
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080
But I think there's one more scene.

423
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,480
Yeah, there's like a bathroom stall scene with a glory hole that was also cut after he

424
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,960
does the antidote.

425
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,960
But I don't know.

426
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,960
I just think the ending now, no one deleted scenes and so strange for me.

427
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:08,520
It's just like you can see it.

428
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:09,360
I can see it now.

429
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:11,600
I couldn't see it earlier on.

430
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:17,480
I'm surprised there's not a fan edit of this with those scenes put back in just because it would

431
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,400
be very easy to do that.

432
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:23,520
But in my searches, I was not able to find anything like that.

433
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,720
But I'm glad that they keep all of that stuff on the DVD or the blue rage so that if somebody

434
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,400
wants to do that, they could because you know, they are pretty easy to put in.

435
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:38,840
And yeah, that script book that's out there, a brochure, a book, fantastic.

436
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:44,880
And I really like how not only does he include the scenes that were cut out because there's

437
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,880
a whole thing of like, I want to say one of his mentors, one of his philosophy mentors

438
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,480
that he goes back to and talks with and that character is completely cut out as well.

439
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,280
So you just get to see all of these different aspects of the story that were eliminated

440
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,840
between script and screen and even those things that you're talking about where it's things

441
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,000
that were shot that just aren't even on the deleted scenes.

442
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,080
Yeah, I would love to see all that stuff.

443
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:13,840
Like there's more like hell of the battle too in there as well deleted.

444
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,120
And I like seeing what the professor I get while it's not in the movie.

445
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,960
But the purpose of that scene is you're supposed to see how brilliant Jacob's mind is and

446
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,040
how he does fear the demons.

447
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,200
And you know, it was like a whole scene kind of to set him up a little bit more.

448
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:34,640
He's almost hiding in this movie when he is being shown as postal worker.

449
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,440
And it's like you have a PhD in philosophy and you should probably working in a much more

450
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,240
of an academic setting.

451
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:47,800
But no, he is he kind of exchanges one uniform from Vietnam into another uniform as the post

452
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:48,800
agent.

453
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,560
And I don't know for supposed to get this whole thing of like messages and delivering messages

454
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,680
because he keeps getting messages, but he doesn't really know what to do with them.

455
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,240
Woman at the party who reads his palm and is like, Oh, you're dead.

456
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:03,320
You're dead, honey.

457
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,760
He just keeps being told like you're dead, you're dead, you're dead, you're dead.

458
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,960
And then he just keeps asking, am I alive?

459
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,720
Am I dead?

460
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:10,720
What's going on?

461
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,600
And they're subtle, but sometimes they're not so subtle.

462
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:18,680
Like even, you know, Louis Black as his doctor after he has that whole thing where he goes

463
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,240
into that massive fever.

464
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,320
And he's just like, Hey, you must have friends of very high places.

465
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,000
And it's like, OK, yeah.

466
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,200
We are definitely talking, having him here quite a bit.

467
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:34,960
But I'm glad we're not talking real Judeo Christian, like the imagery and stuff.

468
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,760
We get some of that in some of the books that he's looking at.

469
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,200
But I like that line was more like, Oh, no, this is more natural.

470
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,360
Like the nurse at the hospital there.

471
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:49,200
So it's a little perturbrances at the top of her head that look like bones sticking out.

472
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,000
And it's like, well, that doesn't look like kind of looks like a horn, but it's not like

473
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,080
traditional, you know, little devil type horns come in out of her head.

474
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:01,280
If I never knew that was supposed to be a horn until I looked at this.

475
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:02,280
We were there.

476
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:03,280
They looked like a terrible injury.

477
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,240
Like some sort of weird skull fragment.

478
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:11,240
I think a lot of it makes sense to me as a guy who is shell shocked and Vietnam and sees horrible

479
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,600
corpses all over the place.

480
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,200
And the car's blowing up as well.

481
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,200
Like anything could be rigged exploded.

482
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:22,440
So you just, it's just a horrible PTSD experience.

483
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,320
Yeah, it resonated with me more than all the religious stuff.

484
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,200
You know, Mike's lying to that he asked, there's anybody want to come on this podcast and talk

485
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,480
about the Old Testament ramifications of some movie and the hammer.

486
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,000
Oh, I don't know either.

487
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:36,000
I don't know either.

488
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,360
But it wasn't a bit over the top with all the character names being biblical names.

489
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,680
Not just love biblical names.

490
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,720
If I had another little boy, I would name him Jason Caleb or Tav.

491
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,000
Super over the top.

492
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,000
Yeah.

493
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,560
Because you guys haven't even mentioned we've talked about the chemist, but his name is Michael.

494
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,000
And it's like, OK, we get Michael Gabriel.

495
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000
Sarah, jess about.

496
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:58,000
Yeah, jess is like part of the biggest like it's so over the top.

497
00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:02,480
Like, well, yeah, and like with Jacob from the Bible, I mean, he had a few things going on.

498
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:08,160
That only did he have that dream ladder where he saw figures going and coming down

499
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,840
so this whole ascension, desension thing.

500
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,920
But then also Jacob is the one that wrestled either an angel or God.

501
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,880
They don't really make it clear.

502
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,480
And there's that whole thing where he like hurts the other person hurts his hip.

503
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,480
And so that when Louie is like, oh, I know just your hip here and I'm like, OK, yeah,

504
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,040
got an old injury there from fighting with God.

505
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,040
Oh, wow.

506
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:31,040
I didn't know that.

507
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:32,040
That's pretty.

508
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:33,040
No, we knew there.

509
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,040
There was a lot of small and detailed.

510
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,320
It's not biblical, but it was very interesting that both when he meets Batham, Richardson,

511
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,880
on the steps of it was going to read his palm.

512
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,320
And also with Daniel Yellow, she says to him, give me your right head and he gives her

513
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,120
his left hand and says, no, you're right.

514
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,880
And also with the hand, he says, you left and right.

515
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,080
I think I'm that I got a wrong in one of the Daniel Yellow sequences.

516
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:58,440
He says to him turn, relived and he turns left and then he else has no left.

517
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,680
So he turns to the other way and it's actually wrong.

518
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,680
He'd like, Mr. Dio, my, this is the viewer.

519
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,080
But I think I heard somewhere that in dreams, you can tell left for right is that.

520
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,080
Is that right?

521
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,080
I didn't know that.

522
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,200
Wow, I see a call that that in dreams, you can tell left from right.

523
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,720
So I thought, so I think I don't like it.

524
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,120
It's just pergatory or just hell, I could also be a dream.

525
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,360
It could be different thing.

526
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,320
The part where he's told that he's dead could also be part of a dream.

527
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,360
I mean, we call it our different interpretations.

528
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:30,200
There is a scene in the opening where after the subway scene as Mike brought up the elevator

529
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640
scene with the coins, he goes home.

530
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,560
He takes a shower and just jumps in the shower with him and then when it cuts back to

531
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:39,920
them, there's like range ripping on his face.

532
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:40,920
So it makes sense.

533
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,720
It's in a shower because he's just been rained on outside and in the same thing with the car

534
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,640
explosion, because I'm thinking, oh yeah, he must, there's always explosions going around

535
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,400
him and that like also seeped in.

536
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,680
But it was also in the original script when the car explodes, what's happening, he's in the

537
00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,560
chopper and they're getting attacked.

538
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,360
Like there's bombs going off.

539
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,880
And I thought that was kind of interesting.

540
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,280
So I'm so grateful that Adrian, I took this approach where he let these different interpretations

541
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,560
go exist and didn't really hit us over the head of the hammer.

542
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:14,120
It's so much better this way.

543
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:19,720
You know that because the original concept was Bruce Joel Ruben said, my original idea was for a

544
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,920
20th century man to be attacked by medieval creatures and Lin came in and kind of scrapped

545
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,240
that and made it more like flesh based.

546
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:34,160
You know, I think originally I believe was it Ridley Scott was attached.

547
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,480
I think what I was one of the things he was into.

548
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,520
But it's interesting, if he would have made Jacob's ladder, he was supposed to make it around

549
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,800
the time he did the legend.

550
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,680
So it would have been weird for him to do the ultimate devil and legend and then do Jacob's

551
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,680
ladder.

552
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:55,200
Because the script, the creatures are more, their demonic creatures, they're not flesh based

553
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,840
as Lin said.

554
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:02,760
But I think he, yeah, what he did with it was was so incredible to shift the movie in that

555
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,920
direction.

556
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:09,360
The way that the demon effects are in this, I mean, it's these kind of weird masks or the

557
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:14,520
effect that he's doing where he's got people moving their heads at a probably regular

558
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,400
rate, but he's shooting it.

559
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,520
What for frames a second or something so that they're moving can currently fast.

560
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,840
It's like they're out of sync with the world.

561
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:24,840
I really like that.

562
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:31,160
And when Jacob sees those in the back of the subway or in the cars, the car, the train

563
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:35,320
run them down or at the party that I was just talking about.

564
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:39,440
There's just like all of these little moments where it's like, wow, and they just, they're

565
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:40,440
really super freaky.

566
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:47,880
We're the one at the hospital after he gets thrown out of the car and brought by Santa Claus

567
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:52,680
when he goes to the hospital and there's the guy who doesn't, I don't think he has any legs

568
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:55,200
and he just, his head is doing that thing.

569
00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:01,880
He's like man, this super freaky, where the guy who's got no eyes that shoots him right in his

570
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,120
third eye and all those people at the hospital are just like, no, no, you're dead.

571
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:07,760
It's like, wow, all right.

572
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:12,960
And this is that massive contraption that he's in that they kind of spin them around and poking

573
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,160
right there and his third eye.

574
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:20,480
The guy in the hospital, I thought he was being ramed going through his own personal hell

575
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,600
because it's a kind of a built black gentleman.

576
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,240
He's got, and he's been like a Johnny gut his gun situation going through his own purgatory

577
00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:32,600
in there that he sees because he does see the bike, the Linless people, which he's dealing

578
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,880
with in war, which we also see in the beginning, like, and dirty attack guys with losing their

579
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,040
arms and stuff.

580
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:44,920
So there's, yeah, and I love that, I love that contraption they put him in because I think

581
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:51,360
then Danny L. L. L. L. comes in and he's like, you know, what is this medieval barbaric thing

582
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:52,360
you're putting him in?

583
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,480
And yeah, he says like, why don't you just burn him at the stake and put him at his misery

584
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,400
again, telling the, you know, it's so brilliant.

585
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,020
Or you get that moment at the party where basically it's like a demon having sex was just

586
00:36:05,020 --> 00:36:10,640
about the horn that pops out of her mouth, just like holy shit.

587
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:12,640
But let's go and hang here.

588
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,560
That was fucking nuts.

589
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:21,880
And the strobe effect, this isn't the movie for epileptics for sure, but it was so fucking effective.

590
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,960
Like he could, it's one of those rare things we see, practical effect, there's so much better

591
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,000
than anything ever done with CGI.

592
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:33,200
It just works so, it's so fucking scary and weirdy sexy and everything.

593
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:38,240
And also the choice of music like, Jane putting Jane's brown is that as a, like, for the

594
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:44,680
soundtrack about like horrifying, poor scene, it's so weird, that's scary music at all.

595
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,920
It's not even creepy or anything, it's just a funky, I don't know if it's kind of a weird,

596
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,200
we have a British director, like I think it's only a British director would put Jane's

597
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,560
brown on the background of that scene.

598
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:00,440
Now dude, the music choice is so perfect for that scene.

599
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,600
Was that your first time seeing that scene or have you seen it before?

600
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,320
Think of the only thing I ever saw outside of the context of the movie was him and the

601
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,120
ice bath and that's it.

602
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:13,480
Because that that that that scene is so phenomenal, the whole sequence is so great and that song,

603
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,680
it's out there that it's on an album called Hell, which is pretty funny too.

604
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,400
The James Brown track, I'm not aware of that song, but I think it's a perfect song for

605
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:22,400
that scene.

606
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,720
It's so good.

607
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:28,480
And that scene man, it was like nothing else I've ever experienced since.

608
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:33,480
It was just, I guess for me, when I first saw as a kid, the closest thing I can kind of

609
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,120
put this movie up against was like Angel Hart, which was I get it's just big budget.

610
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:41,520
It felt like a big budget horror movie with real actors in it.

611
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:46,840
You know, which always kind of puts it on a more of a top tier, because I was so used to

612
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:53,240
fry a 13th and Halloween, but that scene, just again, it's another scene from this movie that

613
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:54,520
has never left me.

614
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,080
It's like it's pretty brilliant.

615
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:02,120
That's funny because I think peritillir rins is also an angel Hart and he plays a

616
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,120
character.

617
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:11,160
It's two detectives, like, demo some phobos, the sons of Mars are one of his characters, one

618
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,160
of those two names.

619
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:13,160
Oh, shit.

620
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,480
You know, I need to rewatch it.

621
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,240
My dad gave it to me when I was a kid.

622
00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,480
He's like, you got to watch this.

623
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:18,480
And you know, what?

624
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,600
I was kind of blown away by it, you know?

625
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,720
Because like I said, it's just like I liked it when like misery came out.

626
00:38:23,720 --> 00:38:25,040
James Con was in it.

627
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,840
I liked it when you saw like real, I love horror films, but I just, you know, I was so used

628
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,040
to seeing, you know, the least stars.

629
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,440
You know, you know, you know, you know, when I would see a movie with like real, I could

630
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,800
guess I would say, a list actors in a horror movie, but they were always thrown off as, oh, no,

631
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:42,800
it's a thriller.

632
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:43,800
It's not a horror film.

633
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:48,120
It always just had, it seems like I had a bigger impact for some reason on me, especially

634
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:49,120
angel Hart.

635
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:55,600
Well, that movie was so controversial, especially with Lisa Bonne being in there and her being

636
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,920
still on the cows be show or just left the cows be show and on a different world.

637
00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:04,840
I mean, it was so like, oh boy, America's sweet heart and it's like, all right, sure, you

638
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,240
can't have a sexuality.

639
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:07,840
These are the 80s.

640
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:08,840
Right, exactly.

641
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:13,880
Yeah, and after that scene of them at the party, that's when you get that famous scene of

642
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:19,920
him in the ice bath and just apparently he had a freak out at the party after seeing just

643
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,520
about like this.

644
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:23,040
And then we wake up.

645
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,040
I think there's a little Vietnam flash back in there and that he wakes up at in the

646
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,040
apartment.

647
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,160
One other thing, I should say is that he is constantly waking up.

648
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,280
So it's one of these like, you should know that he's dreaming because he is constantly waking

649
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:37,280
up.

650
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,200
So when he wakes up this time, she's just like, man, I can't believe you embarrass me so much

651
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,320
at this party and like read them the right act about being mortified.

652
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,360
And then he has a temperature of like 160 degrees and it serves this whole thing of this

653
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:52,040
ice bath going on.

654
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,120
And then this weird moment that just, it's the one thing in this movie that just really

655
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,720
gets me is he's in the ice bath and then suddenly he's back with Sarah.

656
00:40:01,720 --> 00:40:08,120
And it's like we have gone off a whole other branch of fantasy where he's back with Sarah, not

657
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:14,560
only as he back with her, but Gabe is either now he's back in the past or Gabe is still alive

658
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,160
in this timeline that he's at.

659
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:20,480
It's like he's going through like different levels of dream type stuff.

660
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:24,840
And it almost feels like he's moving back and forth in time with this stuff.

661
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,440
And that ties in to the ice bath.

662
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:32,720
You know, you're talking about how things bleed from one timeline to another and that he's there

663
00:40:32,720 --> 00:40:34,920
going like, oh, you know, it's so cold.

664
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:35,920
It's so cold.

665
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:43,320
You left the window open and that also calls to mind the whole idea of Dante's in Furno and that

666
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,120
many layers of hell are cold.

667
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:52,920
It's not just fire and broom stone kind of stuff that there's browns, those levels of hell

668
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:55,520
are some of them are super cold as well.

669
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,240
That's another great punishment.

670
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:02,080
I think I would probably be worse off in a super cold hell than I would in a super hot hell.

671
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,960
I'd be like, oh, yeah, bring it on.

672
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,280
I love the heat.

673
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,160
I didn't know that about Dante's in Furno.

674
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,160
Never read it.

675
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,760
I always kept thinking about like, when people are dying in movies to like I'm cold.

676
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,200
And so that's what I was going back to.

677
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,520
But um, and then right in one of his flashbacks, you know, they're giving him more drugs.

678
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,600
And I guess their push is guts back in at that point too.

679
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:29,720
So that's probably why it's such an intense experience for him that seen in the tub when

680
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:35,440
he's just looking up like Jesus Christ, like why wasn't he nominated for best act for this

681
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,840
movie because his performance is phenomenal.

682
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,640
Like his you feel for him because like from the opening in the Vietnam, he's very likable

683
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,640
because he's just laughing as the guys are breaking his balls.

684
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,560
You know, talking about I'm shooting all the time.

685
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,960
He's laughing. He's got that moment with the women singing post man.

686
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:56,840
But then he's got these, you know, like these quick emotional scenes where he sees, you know,

687
00:41:56,840 --> 00:42:00,040
his son's picture before she throws out the pictures he's crying.

688
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,120
That scene in the tub that performance.

689
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,160
It's not saying anything, but it's all in his face and his eyes.

690
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:06,320
He's tearing.

691
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:07,960
It's phenomenal.

692
00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,760
We mentioned a lot of the good stuff, but there's a, there's one unintentional laugh in

693
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,080
this movie where the first time we pulled out Gates picture.

694
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,880
And it's the colleague, Colton.

695
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,840
And out of context, it's just so ridiculous.

696
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:24,160
Chris, and this is also the year that home alone came out.

697
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:28,800
Like, it's a few months, a few short months away from every person in the world, basically knowing

698
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:29,800
who this kid is.

699
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:31,920
So, but ever, yeah, you got to laugh.

700
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:35,240
When you pick this picture and you just think, oh, so is this guy a huge,

701
00:42:35,240 --> 00:42:37,280
the colleague, all in fan like, what's going on?

702
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,400
He carries this picture around and is all it.

703
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,640
Oh, Kevin, the calistar.

704
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:44,160
I remember you so well.

705
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:45,800
I love you and Richie.

706
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,520
Why did you come back for home alone?

707
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,000
You were right.

708
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:53,960
Why didn't you put Trump in the nuts and home alone, too?

709
00:42:53,960 --> 00:43:00,000
So the most horrific scenes for me are, like you said, the party when the demon kind of

710
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:01,920
rapes just about.

711
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:08,360
And then when he is gets kidnapped by those guys outside of Jason Alexander's office and they

712
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,520
pull him into this car and are threatening them, you know, like, you better quit talking

713
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:15,240
about this, quit asking questions.

714
00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:20,200
Again, we're super into like, Alan J. Piculita territory with this type of stuff.

715
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:26,760
And then, yeah, the throw nut of the car, Santa Claus comes along and steals his license.

716
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:31,280
There's steals his wallet, which then begs the question, I don't know why people aren't

717
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,280
writing all these articles is Jake and his letter of Christmas movie.

718
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:38,520
Dude, I was so afraid you were going to bring that stuff.

719
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,720
It's like in one way, it's like a dream logic.

720
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,120
Why is there a Santa here all of the sudden?

721
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,440
And then if you look at the original script, original script takes place during Christmas, like,

722
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:52,520
you know, when he meets up with his buddy, forget his name, the guy from identity, blows

723
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:53,520
up in the car.

724
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,800
I've been the script, there's like Christmas lights outside that bar, which by the way is like

725
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,920
the sickest location for a movie.

726
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:03,760
Like a lot of these locations, it's like, how are we going to have these two cats meet in

727
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:04,760
a bar?

728
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:10,040
That's like half color of money, pull hole, and the other half is like grocky too, sparring ring.

729
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,040
I fucking love that location.

730
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,360
But that Santa seems a trip because, yeah, in one way, it's like dream logic, but then

731
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,280
the original script, it was a Christmas movie.

732
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:23,400
But there's this great line afterwards where they ask about his wallet and the hostlies

733
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:25,440
is Santa Claus, Duket or something.

734
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,440
And it's just too good.

735
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,520
It's like the funniest line on the movie, the funniest attention alive, that to keep it.

736
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,840
And then the guys that pull him in the car in the script are army officials, and I kind

737
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,200
of like that change where they're just these guys.

738
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:37,360
They look like mobsters.

739
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,520
Like the guys that are hunting them down look like just mobsters to me, maybe because I'm

740
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:42,520
I'm part of it.

741
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:47,280
It's sort of like the FBI agent's sex situation and it's unmarked car, but they totally look like

742
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,280
mobsters.

743
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:50,960
I think it's just, again, messing with that sentence.

744
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:52,440
These really delicious ways.

745
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,880
I mean, one of the guys for sure has been in just the ton of mob movies and mob TV shows.

746
00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,880
I can't remember the gentleman's name though.

747
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:04,280
If I could Jacob needs to stay away from cars because the alley scene, the car is going after

748
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:09,800
him and I thought was interesting about the alley scene is that Adrian Leann said that he,

749
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:15,440
you know, like Jacob's, you know, going back and forth, escaping the car and then he's

750
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:21,120
Adrian Leann said he v-shot it three times that and then he kept using different people looking

751
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,960
out the window because he shot it once and it didn't work.

752
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:24,960
He shot it again.

753
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,240
He wasn't sure and he shot it a third time.

754
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,600
So he blends three different times.

755
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:31,800
He shot it into that scene.

756
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,480
So that's why one second, it's like one guy, the verb rating zombie dude in the back, one

757
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,320
seat, you'll notice that doesn't match the other guy that's driving.

758
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,960
It doesn't match the guy that's looking out the window.

759
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,000
It's fucking, yeah, incredible.

760
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,120
It was incredible that he was able to do something like that.

761
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,960
You know, because I don't know if you'd have, you know, he had, I guess he had the pulled

762
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,200
to pull something like that off back then, which is great.

763
00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:00,440
And he's back apparently after 20 years and just directed this, then I flick movie.

764
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:01,840
Yeah, I kind of liked it.

765
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,120
I know a lot of people didn't like it.

766
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:07,240
It's not for everyone, but I liked it.

767
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:08,520
I'm a fan.

768
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:11,960
And especially when you see this movie, man, it's just like, if you really, I don't know,

769
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:16,760
as a kid, I don't think I got flash dance, but it was such a cultural relevant movie.

770
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,360
The soundtrack was everywhere.

771
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,400
You know, on MTV, they kept showing the music video with the scenes from the movie.

772
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:29,440
But when I'm watching this movie, I just hits you, how much like, man, his aesthetic is just

773
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:30,440
so good.

774
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:34,480
Even though like in decent proposal, like I never really seen it, but you couldn't escape

775
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:38,040
the scene and the bed with the money and then just the premise of that movie.

776
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,640
Think like the premise of the movie, carry that movie too.

777
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,400
It's just fatal attraction.

778
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:45,680
The elevator sequence, you know, it looks so fucking good.

779
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,640
You know, it's like, "Oh boy, has an eye."

780
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,440
Yeah, that's weird because he's one of these guys that comes from that

781
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,520
same working and advertising that I don't remember.

782
00:46:55,520 --> 00:47:00,640
I think Ridley Scott also was an advertising director and for sure, Tony Scott was.

783
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:06,000
And then when you look at his editor and his DP, it's like, there's so many crossovers

784
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,200
with Ridley and especially with Tony Scott.

785
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:11,480
It's like they just kind of glammed down to the same people.

786
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,000
Out of the, yeah, those three guys in the 80s, you know, when you saw Tony Scott movie, it looked

787
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,000
big.

788
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,320
Because you know, that was magic hour shots, you know, it just felt big.

789
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,120
That just the way he shot stuff.

790
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:25,120
All three of those cats totally.

791
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:31,720
Because I was struck by how similar the trajectory of Adrian Lyme and Ridley Scott is,

792
00:47:31,720 --> 00:47:37,240
this, you know, well, British guy coming in and with this background of advertising, there's

793
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:41,120
a few more, like Jonathan Glaser's in your example.

794
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,960
So do you ever sense of how big this movie is called following is?

795
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:48,440
It's still sort of the hidden type of gem or is it or does tons of people know about it?

796
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:54,680
With it being coming out in the 1990s, you know, certain people of a certain age like me were

797
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,320
around when it came out like Steven as well.

798
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:00,400
I don't, you know, even I'm not going to speak for you as far as your age goes.

799
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,960
But, you know, I remember it playing and I remember it being pretty big at the time,

800
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,600
but then it just kind of got dwarfed by ghost.

801
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:11,920
You know, the same year, it wasn't a huge hit.

802
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:17,000
It was definitely successful, but it wasn't like the box office beast that something like ghost

803
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,000
was.

804
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,200
So think that it still must have a cult following.

805
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:24,400
I mean, we'll talk about the sequel or the remake, I should say, after the break.

806
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:30,120
But I don't know if having a remake necessarily qualifies it as having a big cult following,

807
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:34,240
because sometimes you're just like, why are they remaking this one rather than something

808
00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:35,240
else too?

809
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:39,360
Because it's just so strange and especially with this one, it's like, why are you remaking this?

810
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:42,320
This is done pretty perfectly.

811
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,560
I don't think we necessarily needed a remake for it.

812
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:51,240
This movie is definitely had a cultural relevant because I watched walk through the of it.

813
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:59,040
I haven't played it, but silent hill uses a lot that the scary nurse is the same nurse.

814
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,480
Even the harness he's put in at the hospital, what he's the shake, the head shaking, and

815
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,480
silent hill.

816
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:12,320
And then when I was watching this again for this episode, the whole subway sequence, when he's

817
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,320
going into the tunnels, I mean, I can't tell you how many times I played video games where

818
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,560
I've been in those tunnels, you know, I can fall out and shoot like that.

819
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:26,760
I know video game people are definitely designers, you know, are definitely fans of this movie,

820
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,040
because they're always using this aesthetic.

821
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:34,880
And later on, you know, like, household haunted hill and so an episode of Hannibal are using

822
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:35,880
the crazy face.

823
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,960
I mean, I think Joe Dante did it first in inner space.

824
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:47,040
That was more of a comedic way, but what he did with that in this film was just incredible.

825
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,960
I hadn't seen any, even though I, you know, I didn't remember it in the space as a kid.

826
00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:56,120
And then, oh, that's just like, now, in this movie, it just works as its own terrifying element.

827
00:49:56,120 --> 00:50:01,720
But I think it definitely has cultural relevance, like it really seeped into people.

828
00:50:01,720 --> 00:50:03,280
And it's probably influenced a lot of stuff.

829
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:04,440
We don't even realize.

830
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:08,680
Yeah, that whole thing with the subway and him not being able to get out of the subway.

831
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:15,400
I mean, that was the dream that Bruce Shorubin had that really set this whole thing emotion.

832
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,160
And I can't say it was a dream, it was a nightmare.

833
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,000
I mean, this whole idea of being caught someplace and not being able to ascend.

834
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,200
I mean, and that's the whole thing is like, Jacob's caught.

835
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:25,200
He wants to get up.

836
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,840
He wants to go to the next thing he wants to get out of where he's at.

837
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,920
And it's such a nice little metaphor for the entire film.

838
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:38,120
He couldn't go up to stairs, but he's eventually able to go up to stairs at the ending.

839
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,480
But the thing I noticed this, this, this viewing, I never noticed before when he gets

840
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:46,240
up the train, it doesn't say exit.

841
00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:49,960
Like at the stairwell, it says exit in the tunnel, which is strange.

842
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:51,520
And that's where he asked to eventually go out.

843
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:54,920
I thought that was such a trip. I was like, I've never noticed that before.

844
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,160
And then, of course, he goes through the tunnel.

845
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,160
He dodges the train where we see the, the demons.

846
00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:02,560
But we never see him get out of the tunnel, just cuts.

847
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:07,200
You know, the name of the station is visible, but it didn't sound like a real station name,

848
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:08,200
but did you?

849
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,200
Anybody check if it's an actual subway station?

850
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,840
You see the name all over the place.

851
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,640
And it's so, doesn't sound like a real name.

852
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:15,640
I'm a furniture.

853
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,240
Yeah, because, yeah, the tunnel scene.

854
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:23,560
I guess Adrian Lin said that it's the tunnel down there leads to hell in the commentary, but,

855
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:28,040
you know, he gets blocked from going down the tunnel from the oncoming train.

856
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:33,560
And yeah, and that kind of like, maybe think like, how many movies have like, I guess

857
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,760
movies that deal with spiritual have trains in them too, because you know, like,

858
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,360
spirited away has the sequence, which is on the train.

859
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:44,040
I think that's, I guess, well, it's not a train, but I guess heaven and

860
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:49,040
vehicles like heaven can't wait when he pears and heaven, they're all going aboard a concoord,

861
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:53,480
you know, and I believe is there a train in the Albert Brooks movie for some reason?

862
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,080
Oh, and defending your life?

863
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:56,080
I'm not sure.

864
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Sure, too.

865
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:00,560
Some reason I thought there was something about, I hadn't seen that since I was a little kid,

866
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:04,800
so I, but yeah, but I thought, yeah, because there's a movie called The Heavenly Kid from

867
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:12,800
1985 that has this weird opening similar opening where he dies, playing chicken in the 1950s,

868
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,960
this dude, and then as soon as his car drives off, he wakes up on a train just like in Jacob's

869
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:22,400
ladder, and then when he gets off the train, he's not allowed to go up the escalator to heaven.

870
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:28,160
He's in his own purgatory in 90 goes back to the Ego's ahead into 1985, and he's got

871
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,720
to save his son's life.

872
00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:35,920
And I thought that was a weird movie to this, even though it's made in 1985, and it's a silly

873
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:39,800
comedy, but I was like, kind of shocked at how, when I was looking at the head and we

874
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,560
had a look at a, or how straightly similar it is.

875
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:46,800
Okay, so I checked to the Bergen Street Station at surreal station.

876
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:47,800
All right, on.

877
00:52:47,800 --> 00:52:50,280
I'm from the Yarka, shouldn't know that.

878
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:55,280
So Bruce Jo Ruben came from like, what a Christian or a Jewish background, and then he went

879
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:56,280
Jewish background.

880
00:52:56,280 --> 00:53:01,560
Yeah, Jewish and then he went more, what Buddhist or, or, yeah, because he talks a lot in

881
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,800
the interview about the Tibetan book of the dead and the whole thing about what is called

882
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:10,960
bardos and just like how, and I know there's that movie that just came out called bardo,

883
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:16,160
but it's like basically like a transition from one to another type of thing.

884
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,200
So yeah, he's definitely very, very spiritual.

885
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,200
It was pretty cool that it, it informs so much of his work.

886
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,560
Because a lot of the interpretations we've been drawing around are sort of more Judeo Christian,

887
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:32,840
but I'm guessing he has more sort of like a Buddhist interpretation of death and what

888
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:37,040
read the combination or or some kind of something somewhere in the middle between the two.

889
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,680
Because it is a pergatory or hell of that situation, right?

890
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,480
Anyway, anyway, you look at it.

891
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:46,040
One then, yeah, his versions of demons and angels work much more.

892
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:54,080
Like you would see in a Bible class type of thing rather than this more natural line, said

893
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,840
the word "thulatomide" so like the whole idea of like birth to facts and just like the horrific

894
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:05,640
ways that flesh gets twisted. So like being more of like a natural thing with that woman's horn coming

895
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:10,920
out of her head or just like, you know, the people at the hospital where it kind of reminded

896
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:16,680
me a little bit of like the second half of Altopo with like all the people that are trapped

897
00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:21,960
in that Altopo's trying to free like some of those people look like they have some of the

898
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,760
same afflictions. Like there's one guy who's like crawling along the top of the fence when

899
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:32,600
Jacob's going underneath it. I mean, it's like, wow, this is pretty great. In the way that he keeps

900
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,640
getting lower and lower and it feels like they're going deeper and deeper into the bowels of this

901
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:46,600
hospital and the parts where it's like just body parts laying around or blood just all over the ground.

902
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:53,800
I mean, that whole thing and mentioned how winded, re-shot the the car stuff just that he went

903
00:54:53,800 --> 00:55:00,360
back and re-shot the gurney stuff so that he fixed the wheel so that it would shake like a regular

904
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:07,000
gurney rather than being perfectly straight and just that little touch of this gurney being broken.

905
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:12,840
It was like, well, that adds a real nice layer of bare-smillitude to it. It's such an incredible

906
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:18,120
descent that scene. A lot of doctors in this movie and because the first doctors that see a

907
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:23,400
mattress falls out of the car, they're just being such assholes to them and then they'll have a sudden

908
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,400
it's like they're bringing them to another wing of the hospital and it's like outside and the back

909
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:32,920
or something and then it starts that descent. Oh, and then to go back what you're saying like

910
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:40,040
the guy on in the subway, his tail was originally, there was like a storyboard in the

911
00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:45,560
Senate fantastic of the original scene. The storyboard was like his tail was supposed to be more

912
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:54,360
of old-fashioned's devil tail with the swithy point and so they changed it to that phallic thing which

913
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:59,400
always as a kid. I never thought that was a tail. I just didn't you know it was just always

914
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:04,680
disturbed me because I can never figure out what it was. Yeah, you just get a glimpse of it and it's

915
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:11,080
really disturbing. It's this fainy demon shlawing from you. It's so smart to the way that they

916
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:18,440
end this with taking the cab up town, stem the door man, just like, "Oh hey, let me help you up there."

917
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:25,240
No, no, I got it kind of thing and when he's just hanging out at his old apartment and we have

918
00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:32,040
Louis on the foysilver doing that again, talking about the mice, that cart quote and basically him

919
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:36,440
coming to peace and I watched this one day with headphones on. I think you can hear it without the

920
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:43,160
headphones but you can hear like up beating heart on the soundtrack and it's so nice that it's just like,

921
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:48,520
"Oh these are the last moments here of his entire life." And then when Gabe shows up and he's

922
00:56:48,520 --> 00:56:54,600
just like, "Here let me help you." And it's like this nice echo of, you know, Gabe helping his father

923
00:56:54,600 --> 00:57:00,200
move on and move to the other side and you know, like he and Gabe will be reunited and it's just

924
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:07,240
such a nice way of having him come to peace like that. Or he tells the tune itself on his death but to make him

925
00:57:07,240 --> 00:57:13,320
feel himself feel better and the existence is meaningless. That's interesting, I never, God,

926
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:18,120
I didn't catch the heart at all, that's cool. I think it's pretty cool and pretty amazing how

927
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:23,400
is it added in the line doing no for sure? I think it's a line. It's a line. I think it's pretty

928
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,480
cool and pretty amazing how he, it's his only film I think, maybe I'd have a scene like

929
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:33,480
his early shorts that he did but I think it is only filmed the dabbles in horror at all right pretty much.

930
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:40,440
And it's pretty incredible how he outhawered so many horror directors were so obsessed with

931
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,000
this stuff and he I think it seems to me that he came to it with a very

932
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:49,880
meeting potato's approach of how can we make this really scary and how can we make this look

933
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:55,080
best and it's just like a, you know, a pragmatic approach to making and scary and he came up with

934
00:57:55,080 --> 00:58:01,560
this, the surreal nightmare I'd that really puts to shame so many horror directors. Almost every sequence

935
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:07,240
you see a demon he's like doing is what I'm being like. Like I said the scene with the car tries

936
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:13,000
to run him over the faces or terrifying that the slender man looking dude on the back of the train

937
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:18,520
during the opening like there is so much haunted imagery in the set piece of the dancing,

938
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:22,440
the gurney scene we just talked about and that deleted scene of the trip out.

939
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:31,080
Dude those are fucking phenomenal set pieces. That's ceiling-beathed thing. I can't think of I mean you

940
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:37,160
think it'd be like cheesy or something but it's so fucking effective. Even that even later that

941
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:43,320
part of the shop where the light bulb blows out somehow is so affecting to me I don't know why but

942
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:47,320
just build the editing in the magnificent I think we should get more credit to ever edited I didn't check

943
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:53,080
but so fucking well edited everything everything here so well edited like baked everything is like

944
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,360
compelled they fun two or three more frames it wouldn't work as well like really meticulously done.

945
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:05,480
That was Tom Roth that did the editing for this one and he was also an editor on taxi driver

946
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:10,440
I filmed that we might have heard of before but yeah he had done a ton of stuff including

947
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:18,760
that's about the crossover black rain and nine and a half weeks. He worked with the line on that. He also worked

948
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:24,360
with Paul Schreider he did blue collar and hard core so this guy was all over the place for a while to

949
00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:30,040
great job and then the more it's jarrer score I think is great too and it's not and true so

950
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:36,760
it's just like just enough to let you know like there's a score here but it's not just like screaming

951
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:42,360
violins and horrific things going on it's not like again beating you over the head with it I'd like

952
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:47,800
that this movie is so subtle and it's horror just like those little quick shots like that you're trying

953
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:53,240
about the tail from the homeless guy on the train with that was that you know and it's over so quick

954
00:59:53,240 --> 00:59:58,760
and they're just not lingering on these things going oh look at this effect we spent money on this

955
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:04,760
now you have the look at it genius yeah and I gotta say there's a sequence this time I never

956
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,640
clocked before that actually did freak me out and this is like I don't know how many times I've seen this

957
01:00:09,640 --> 01:00:16,040
mood you know I'd now I'd seen it for five times but it was after his journey through hell after

958
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:20,760
as you brought up he gets injected in his third eye which I didn't put together was his third eye

959
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:26,120
you're so freaking right about that when he wakes up in the hospital bed again waking up like

960
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:32,760
you said because family comes and visits him and let end and go in back early on as we were

961
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:39,560
talked about their relationship but Jezzy says that she she looks like a bitch I can see why you left her

962
01:00:39,560 --> 01:00:46,040
I guess he left her but at the hospital as soon as she says that she loves him there's a voice

963
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:52,840
said dream on do that actually creeped me out this viewing of it like creeped me out I knew to expect

964
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:59,080
everything else of the movie but I had this unexpected jolt of creepiness and then because he

965
01:00:59,080 --> 01:01:05,400
looks towards the camera and he sees something off screen and he's just like no no like almost like every

966
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:10,600
lovecraft book has that someone seeing something terrible off screen that we never see it was like

967
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:16,520
I never caught that before and then I was like wow since she says as she loves them it's the one

968
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:21,880
nightmare that that's not gonna get forgiven because early on in the movie like when you brought up

969
01:01:21,880 --> 01:01:26,840
the he woke up in the room with her and she's explaining like you know he had this horrible dream

970
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:33,720
he was married to Jezzybel and everything the scene ends when like him I think telling her that he loves her

971
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,880
and then he just looks up at the sky with this look on his face again like every time

972
01:01:37,880 --> 01:01:45,160
something is said about love between him and his wife it ends with something kind of you know unsettling

973
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:51,080
like it's like he's dying but he can't I fit some re I guess he can't apologize or something and that's

974
01:01:51,080 --> 01:01:57,160
what's one of the demons that's killing him that's me though I don't know I could be stretching I want to say

975
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:04,600
that that dream online is in one of those deleted scenes as well and it's like it almost works so well

976
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:10,040
that they couldn't give it up you know or else they were gonna use a twice I don't know but it feels like

977
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:15,320
we like this so much and we're gonna pull it in and use it over here as well yeah I love that

978
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:21,240
where it's just like who is this what is this you know you mentioned the whole like glory whole thing and I

979
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:26,520
want to say it like has something to do with that as well it's just like yeah you hear from like the

980
01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:32,920
other room type of thing it's so freaky oh yeah because yeah it's weird because that bathroom has

981
01:02:32,920 --> 01:02:38,600
the glory hole and the other cutscene that you see very glimpses in the making of was that in

982
01:02:38,600 --> 01:02:44,360
opening when he's walking around to subway and can't find a way out he go opens a bathroom stall

983
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:49,480
with two men in there one naked and one pulls a knife on him so it's like this weird thing with

984
01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:57,000
public bathrooms in this with the remote cut out so it is New York in the 70s I mean I

985
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:02,360
try not to use public bathrooms now in 2023 alright guys let's go ahead and take a break and we'll be

986
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:07,160
back with a pair of interviews first up we'll hear from screenwriter Bruce Joel Ruben and after that

987
01:03:07,160 --> 01:03:12,200
we are going to hear from director Adrian Line and we'll be back with both of those right after

988
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:19,240
these brief messages hi I'm Jason and I'm jewels and we do in filmographies we've compiled a list of

989
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:25,400
actors we draw a name at random and tackle their entire acting filmography from start to finish or at least

990
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,840
as much of it that still exists and hasn't been lost to time Jason loves actor Billy Crude up in films

991
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:36,920
like Jesus as son or almost famous but well he loved Billy and movies like Montyman Avenue or

992
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:42,600
world traveler no they're not good and jewels love actor rata Mitchell and films like hi art and pitch black

993
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:49,240
but will he love rata in movies like when strangers appear or love in other catastrophes you'll

994
01:03:49,240 --> 01:03:54,360
just have to tune in to find out some of the names that pop up might surprise you some of the films as

995
01:03:54,360 --> 01:04:00,920
well so join us every Saturday on the podcast app of your choice or via YouTube as we do in film

996
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:16,200
you could tell me a little bit as far as like the origin of that and even more that origin of you and

997
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:20,680
like what led to Jacob's ladder because I know you're very spiritual person and I know a lot of that

998
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:27,320
came out of spirituality I didn't start out that way I thought it was a spiritual anything I mean I

999
01:04:27,320 --> 01:04:35,560
was observing Jewish kid from Detroit and that was kind of my life I was responsible to following my

1000
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:41,160
parents to practice you know and we celebrated Christmas so we were very ecumenical and I kind of you

1001
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:48,520
know enjoyed life and everything was fine and I ended up having a roommate in New York who was very close

1002
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:55,560
to Timothy Lary. Timothy Lary was doing things outside of the university serving in Millbrook New York

1003
01:04:55,560 --> 01:05:02,600
experiments with LSD and my friend went up there regularly and tried it and asked if I would like to

1004
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:09,560
try it I was I mean I was strangely uncarsher so I don't know why I said sure and he got me a

1005
01:05:09,560 --> 01:05:16,760
pill of about 65 micrograms I think I don't know what it was but it was sizable enough to

1006
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:23,320
initiate something major and he said the day comes and you know it's right we'll do this I said okay

1007
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:30,600
and it took about six months for me to arrive at that moment and interestingly on that very day a

1008
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:35,960
man named Michael Hollings had arrived in our apartment from DeSando's laboratories in Switzerland where

1009
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:43,160
the LSD is made with a jar of pure elitric acid that had just been produced and said I don't want to

1010
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:47,800
walk around New York City carrying this can I put it in your refrigerator because my friend and he

1011
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:55,000
were going to go to Millbrook to follow in there so that was there and then that evening I took my 65 micrograms

1012
01:05:55,000 --> 01:06:01,800
or whatever they were and nothing happened and all so my friend said we just happened to have

1013
01:06:01,800 --> 01:06:09,640
the jar of pure elitric acid in the refrigerator freshly made and I get an eyedropper and I give you a drop

1014
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:14,600
and I want okay so he goes and he gets an eyedropper and he fills it and he goes to give me the drop and

1015
01:06:14,600 --> 01:06:21,800
he goes and the whole eyedropper so thousands of micrograms when shooting down my throat and there was nothing

1016
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:27,960
at that point that one could do so I mean this could take up our entire interview the story of what

1017
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:33,640
took place at that moment but it was a complete eradication of everything I ever knew about the world

1018
01:06:33,640 --> 01:06:40,600
about life about human existence about where we fit in the cosmology of a much larger universe and

1019
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:46,440
that there was something so much bigger it was also very biblical in many ways up front because it was my

1020
01:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,680
my Sunday school learning of things you know so there was a heaven in the hell and all these kinds

1021
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:58,040
of things but they were just really it went on and on and so far beyond that it came to a place and

1022
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:02,360
I tried to describe it in terms of time and I kind of say I don't know if it was like three or four

1023
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:09,560
billion years but it was long and at some point in that I appeared to have died as far as I I mean

1024
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:16,520
there was nothing there was no anything at all and it was fine it was like completely fine it was very

1025
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:24,440
big and very non-despripped in a way but there was and I thought it was all there I mean there was no

1026
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:31,480
me to think about it really but then there was a sensation of something dropping into whatever it was

1027
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:40,680
I had become and it was like a like I did impregnated and then the next thing I knew parts of me were

1028
01:07:40,680 --> 01:07:46,440
reformulating like an elbow and part of the room and part of my head and then the wall the ceiling

1029
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:53,800
body and whole thing reconstructed itself in a three-dimensional AI kind of but very real

1030
01:07:54,680 --> 01:08:03,960
news new emergence if you will and I was back in the world and I said why why am I back and this voice

1031
01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:12,600
came loud and clear to tell people what you saw and that was a directive and I had no objective

1032
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:18,120
beyond that except the first thing I had to figure out was what had I seen because I had no way of

1033
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:26,760
understanding it and my friend gave me a book called the Bhagavad Gita into song of God which I had never read

1034
01:08:26,760 --> 01:08:33,320
had I read it a week before would have been kind of meaningless to me reading it at that moment changed

1035
01:08:33,320 --> 01:08:39,480
everything and I suddenly understood there was a mystical universe that has been addressed by

1036
01:08:39,480 --> 01:08:45,880
it turns out Eastern and Western religions and philosophies but at that moment it was just Eastern for me and I

1037
01:08:45,880 --> 01:08:51,560
started reading that and I started reading Tibetan Buddhist texts and I was trying to figure out what is all this

1038
01:08:51,560 --> 01:09:00,120
what exactly did I see and why is it not what is it written down what are people talk about this thing

1039
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:07,480
is mystical tradition and I ended up I was working at like NBC and I had a job as a film editor

1040
01:09:07,480 --> 01:09:14,120
and I decided I needed to go to India and I needed to check this out in much more profound way than I

1041
01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:19,480
read in reading so I quit my job and I began literally hitchhiking around the world there are

1042
01:09:19,480 --> 01:09:25,720
multiple bite stories and all this so I'm getting a bit quick and dirty but I made it overland through

1043
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:30,680
you know like Turkey and Iran and Afghanistan and Pakistan and all that to India and the poll I

1044
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:36,920
lived in it to bet them on a stereotype or while I met lots and lots of teachers none of whom I thought were

1045
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:42,600
really my teacher including I have to say is holierous the Dalai Lama which is a whole story in

1046
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:49,880
and of itself but I went to see him and I had after a lot of sort of begging I got in and he and I just

1047
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:55,640
talked for hours and at the end of our conversation he's offered to be my teacher and I said I don't

1048
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:01,000
I don't think you're my teacher and I said I don't find my teacher would you be open to my

1049
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:06,840
coming back? He said of course he laughed and he was wonderful and this I'm subterranean

1050
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:11,720
way he may have been my teacher through this many many years I've had of what you might call

1051
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:20,120
spiritual meditative practice I came back and to America never a wonderful woman married had a incredible

1052
01:10:20,120 --> 01:10:26,360
life children you know grandchild little that and a broader movie which I thought was kind of

1053
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:33,000
trying to describe some of these experiences that I'd had and the movie was called Brain Storm and it

1054
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:39,720
was not a wood-slast film and for reasons I don't fully understand it actually got made it had

1055
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:45,080
out enormous difficulties being made and in the end you know of course you know the story

1056
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:49,800
Natalie died before was finished and there was a lot involved in bringing it to conclusion but

1057
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:56,360
the big thing that happened was that well it was opening and Holly would we went to see it with

1058
01:10:56,360 --> 01:11:01,320
no money and our pockets at all I mean barely forward to trip there and we had left with Brian

1059
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:07,000
to Paul Mums and we'll put him in and you said you know if you want a career you got to move here

1060
01:11:07,000 --> 01:11:12,920
and we went back to Illinois where we were moving at the time and my wife quit her job and she said

1061
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:19,400
room would be to Hollyward which was a terrifying scary situation but we did it with no money no

1062
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:26,600
promises two kids everything and everything changed and what I realized is that this universal

1063
01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:33,880
thing was looking for my level of commitment to all of this when I made that commitment it opened the door

1064
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:39,000
and but you had a proven you couldn't quite couldn't just say hey I want to be a Hollywood writer

1065
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:45,880
but while I was in Illinois having had a film called brainstorm produced open clothes within three

1066
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:52,360
weeks in a way having no impact whatsoever on my Hollywood career I woke up one night with a dream

1067
01:11:52,360 --> 01:11:59,240
of a guy on a subway and he was got off the subway at a station that had no exit there were

1068
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:06,920
no all the doors were barred and he didn't know what to do and so he crossed the tracks very carefully

1069
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:12,040
because he can be killed by the third rail and got to the other side and all the doors there were

1070
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:20,120
barred as well and and he didn't know what to do but he had this sudden terror that he was in hell

1071
01:12:20,120 --> 01:12:26,920
and had to figure out how to get out and when I woke up I thought I have to write this as a movie

1072
01:12:26,920 --> 01:12:33,960
and in a way I had to write this and my journey out of hell and so that began Jacob's ladder

1073
01:12:33,960 --> 01:12:41,080
and I started thinking if I wrote the script right it would open doors and in a strange way it really

1074
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:47,800
did the writing of the script was some writers will understand as I guess it was kind of delivered

1075
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:53,000
I would sit there and go as I was writing as fast as I could trying to take the dictation of whatever

1076
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:58,680
this was about my wife came in the room and kind of looked over my shoulder at one point see what I was writing

1077
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:05,800
and she said what is that and I said I have no idea but I couldn't stop I couldn't stop it got me

1078
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:12,120
an agent at the time and that was very valuable although she was no longer working as an agent

1079
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:18,280
and not able to really move things forward but she was very helpful in the writing I'll pick up it

1080
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:24,200
she kept pushing me make it better which I kept trying to do but she knew it was good and I felt it was

1081
01:13:24,200 --> 01:13:31,080
good I didn't know what what it would become or what to do with it but a couple of things started to

1082
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:36,680
happen I got it to Marty's for says he who had been a classmate and why you and a friend and he

1083
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:42,520
really loved it and a number of other people and then suddenly I got a call from American film magazine

1084
01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:47,720
from Steve Robello saying I'm doing this article on the 10 best unproduced screenplayes

1085
01:13:47,720 --> 01:13:55,800
and Hollywood and we'd like to include you really and I didn't know how he knew the bar I had no idea

1086
01:13:55,800 --> 01:14:01,560
how he knew about it but he put it out there and when I went out to Hollywood and I had finally

1087
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:09,480
made my move with no anything people knew because of Jacob's latter not not brainstorm but she was

1088
01:14:09,480 --> 01:14:16,040
you know just another movie that had come and gone but Jacob's latter was script they knew me and

1089
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:22,200
I had an agent for a short time during that another new agent but he said to me I don't want to

1090
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:28,360
represent you anymore nobody wants to be movies about ghosts so I went okay and then I didn't know

1091
01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:35,160
what to do and I find this new agent named Jeff Sanford who said your script Jacob's latter is why

1092
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:40,280
I got in business and I will make you will get millions of dollars you I will make you very successful

1093
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:47,000
writer I want to represent you and he did all of that he made he change my life he put everything out there

1094
01:14:47,000 --> 01:14:53,800
in the world for me he got Jacob's latter going he got ghost going but he also had another kind of angelic

1095
01:14:53,800 --> 01:14:59,640
presence a woman named Lindsay Durand who was a vice president of paramount at the time and then

1096
01:14:59,640 --> 01:15:07,640
later a president of universal and a remarkable person and she transogs one of the people who recommended

1097
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:13,480
Jacob's latter to the article in the american film and she said one of the said yes to ghost and

1098
01:15:13,480 --> 01:15:19,560
there came a moment while we were making ghosts friends of mine said I think we have a director

1099
01:15:19,560 --> 01:15:25,560
rejectives latter I went really cool and they said a good room line I mean I love it is work I mean

1100
01:15:25,560 --> 01:15:31,880
I thought powerful powerful filmmaking and they arranged to get together at a party where there was

1101
01:15:31,880 --> 01:15:38,360
a fight a what he called fight on forget who was fighting and wrote on television and he was totally into

1102
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:44,200
the boxing match and I'm sitting next to him one is a talk about Jacob's latter and he's not doing anything

1103
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:51,480
and and it was like such a strange moment I thought we're here and it wasn't coming up and then his

1104
01:15:51,480 --> 01:15:56,680
wife comes over and leans over to me while she's watching the match and she said he's going to make

1105
01:15:56,680 --> 01:16:07,560
your movie so I went okay and then if again we started to have a dialogue a relationship he became the force

1106
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:15,480
of making Jacob's latter thought we were at that point going to do it a paramount thanks to Lensi

1107
01:16:15,480 --> 01:16:21,880
she immediately said this is great we'll make it here but then the president of paramount

1108
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:28,040
left agon steel and she went to Columbia and suddenly we didn't have a champion in the that she

1109
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:32,840
got that level and then the new person who came in to paramount didn't want to make it didn't

1110
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:38,440
understand Jacob's latter didn't know why we should make it and so there's a long story about how

1111
01:16:38,440 --> 01:16:46,360
I got made it caralco the journey was a journey really ultimately between the Adrian and I over

1112
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:53,640
then the interpretation of the script I will say in the end I'm very proud of Jacob's latter I think it's a

1113
01:16:53,640 --> 01:17:01,720
really um film and I'll say that if I'm following this directive of the LSD experience of telling

1114
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:10,280
people what I saw it comes as close to a direct statement as I could get primarily because it depicts

1115
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:15,640
the what's called into bet and terms the bar of state there's a movie out now called bardo but

1116
01:17:15,640 --> 01:17:23,640
this is this was a depiction of the life in the mind of a man who had died or was dying you can

1117
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:30,920
look at it in your own way but it's a journey into reconciliation a journey into acceptance a journey

1118
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:37,480
into arriving at a place of clarity and peace and understanding and a finding your way up the ladder

1119
01:17:37,480 --> 01:17:43,240
and that's where Jacob's latter is some people have never figured that out watching it but yeah

1120
01:17:43,240 --> 01:17:50,760
cut because for some people it's intellectually just too confusing but it really is the ride of the psyche

1121
01:17:50,760 --> 01:17:57,800
I believe with every human being at the end of the human journey where they are facing the existential

1122
01:17:57,800 --> 01:18:04,920
inevitability of everything and non-prepared with only like I had had a Sunday school education really

1123
01:18:04,920 --> 01:18:10,760
in what is all this it's a very scary moment it's a very confusing moment and you're dealing with

1124
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:17,080
really really big forces I mean I can't even describe in nature of it but they know every animal

1125
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:24,520
element of your being they are you're being in a way it turns out that if you move into this arena

1126
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:31,480
of a meditative internal arena you can begin to actually access that space it's not hidden from us

1127
01:18:31,480 --> 01:18:37,800
it's actually driving our lives at every given second but most people in western society only see the

1128
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:43,480
outer manifestation they don't see the un-manifest they feel it they feel emotion they feel thoughts

1129
01:18:43,480 --> 01:18:49,080
and that experience thoughts they have a feeling of something but they don't dive in and feel it

1130
01:18:49,080 --> 01:18:55,720
and therefore they are totally blindsided by it at the end when the finality comes and they realize

1131
01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:01,160
it's not final and that what's in front of them at that moment has never not been there but they have

1132
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:09,720
paid zero or tension to that so because I had that LSD experience and because I was instructed to let people

1133
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:14,600
know about this a little bit I think got the movie made and luckily Adrian came on board although

1134
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:22,760
he also is not an introspective meditative person on the other hand he was very respectful of all of

1135
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:30,600
that but I had written script that had an enormous amount of our biblical lake like imagery of

1136
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:38,920
demons and devils and all the angels all that classical stuff and he said nope can't do that it's too

1137
01:19:38,920 --> 01:19:45,080
it's too familiar people will laugh at it they will not take it seriously but I said that's why

1138
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:50,600
wrote the movie because it's that classical image that will I think to send almost people because

1139
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:55,720
out of their you know Sunday school experience that's all they've got he said I can't go there and I

1140
01:19:55,720 --> 01:20:04,920
want to well I'm what it would do and we began a big search for the imagery that would work and in the end

1141
01:20:04,920 --> 01:20:12,040
a simple explanation is there was a woman on her so I had a hat that fell off and underneath

1142
01:20:12,040 --> 01:20:19,720
the hat were going to be horns like devil horns but he said I can't do horns he said let me show you

1143
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:23,880
this and he shows me a picture of a person with a cancer with a growth growth cancer with

1144
01:20:23,880 --> 01:20:30,360
growth coming out of the top of their head and he said that's what we're looking for we're looking for the

1145
01:20:30,360 --> 01:20:37,000
biological we're looking for the thing that is not expected that makes people react the way you just did

1146
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:43,880
when you saw an article that's what we're looking for and I couldn't disagree you know I just I mean

1147
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:51,240
I mean I could have you know and but he didn't want to film to have any real biblical reference

1148
01:20:51,240 --> 01:20:57,800
which in a way was not wrong because in so many ways it's it was almost more of a Buddhist kind of

1149
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:06,120
eastern movie but not because it's clearly deals with classical biblical imagery haven't hell

1150
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:13,560
and things like that but he got the imagery right he did say however that at the end of the movie

1151
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:21,000
which was Jacob's triumph in a way and going up the ladder into heaven so I can't do that

1152
01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:27,160
that's for Spielberg I cannot do that kind of imagery so I just I don't want to do it I don't like it

1153
01:21:27,160 --> 01:21:32,760
I mean I can't that's not my specialty you wanted it all real but I said I've wrote this entire

1154
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:40,760
incredible ending which Jacob does battle with this person who is both angel and demon we can't tell which

1155
01:21:40,760 --> 01:21:47,000
and he's set on fire in a way and he ends up as a crisp charred entity and you think dead

1156
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:53,560
and then you move toward it and you see eyes that are alive and then this person or a character in the

1157
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:59,800
movie rips his flesh and light pours up and then more light they just rip off all his flesh and he's

1158
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:05,080
nothing but light and then there's ladder that comes out of the sky and all these beings are going

1159
01:22:05,080 --> 01:22:10,600
up and dotted beings of light and they've back in him forward and he goes and he wants up the ladder

1160
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:16,920
and he goes into the final whatever maybe final space that I believe in some way we all

1161
01:22:16,920 --> 01:22:22,440
are drawn to and perhaps arrive at and the movie and that life goes up there's you suddenly go to a

1162
01:22:22,440 --> 01:22:28,040
light and there's a doctor says he's gone his past he seems in peace the end that was how it was

1163
01:22:28,040 --> 01:22:34,040
supposed to go he said I can't shoot that and I went blah blah blah blah and so we had endless

1164
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:39,880
dialogue so about how do we make that work so he's happy and I'm not getting happier because I'm

1165
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:46,360
losing a big part of my story and my imagery and all of that stuff and he comes up with this idea

1166
01:22:47,080 --> 01:22:54,120
of his having a dead son who leads him perhaps and finally arrived at this upper staircase

1167
01:22:54,120 --> 01:23:03,000
and that it's symbolic of the ladder but it's clearly more material and real world so we did that

1168
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:08,120
we shot the film like that he tried to do a little bit of some of the battle scenes that we had

1169
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:15,480
and with the demon but I could tell you the way he was shooting it there was no continuity

1170
01:23:15,480 --> 01:23:22,040
it not enough continuity for it to ever make it into the film so we ended up losing that that was very

1171
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:29,640
painful for me and the other hand when I would watch the daily's avian's daily's I could see a genius at

1172
01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:35,480
work his work was so stunning and it was interesting because I had the film ghost being shot at exactly

1173
01:23:35,480 --> 01:23:40,760
the same time and for a period in New York and in New York so I would go from the ghost set to the

1174
01:23:40,760 --> 01:23:47,480
Jacob's ladder set to the ghost set and then at night I would watch the daily's the film we shot that day

1175
01:23:47,480 --> 01:23:53,400
at technical and Jerry's looker who shot ghost was very precise and very this and we had half our

1176
01:23:53,400 --> 01:23:59,160
daily's Adrian had three-by-hour as a daily's and he would shoot okay let's move the camera on the

1177
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:06,120
half an inch closer or half an inch closer half an inch with every take so that every actor had

1178
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:13,080
maybe 40 takes of his line or more from a tiny little bit of a different angle I kept thinking oh my god

1179
01:24:13,080 --> 01:24:20,440
but the possibility from that level of opportunity to be able to choose from one take to another to

1180
01:24:20,440 --> 01:24:27,880
another to another if you have a good eye and if you are a good filmmaker which Adrian is that selectivity

1181
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:34,520
is a gift you don't have to go this color paint this color painting have variable arena possibilities

1182
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:40,920
so I could tell I was in good hands and the film really just looked amazing and felt amazing

1183
01:24:40,920 --> 01:24:47,160
and the performances of course with I think stunning you know Tim Robbins is the best person

1184
01:24:47,160 --> 01:24:52,920
they're very gotten for that role on the list of Pena and Danny Ahello who actually plays my

1185
01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:59,160
carer actor my carer practice name Louis Savason in New York and his name Louis Ford for him and

1186
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:05,000
Louis was was a great feel-logent in it away and while he was cracking your body and your neck and

1187
01:25:05,000 --> 01:25:10,280
all that stuff he was giving you all this sort of feedback about the larger world and he delivers

1188
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:17,960
the most important line Jacob's latter which is from my stericard or 16th century sea of logeum

1189
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:24,440
and that line is really the essence of the movie and it is if you're afraid of dying you will see

1190
01:25:24,440 --> 01:25:31,240
demons tearing you from your flesh if you are open to dying those same demons are actually angels

1191
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:37,720
freeing you from there that is the center piece of Jacob's latter and that's what it's about

1192
01:25:37,720 --> 01:25:44,600
and if I have a message to deliver to the world it would be that and it's not mine it's my

1193
01:25:44,600 --> 01:25:50,680
stericard you know but it's the right line and I got it in front of however many people I mean

1194
01:25:50,680 --> 01:25:57,480
not in the original version did many people siege it was later it was not it was not like a big splash hit

1195
01:25:57,480 --> 01:26:05,640
but I am told this is all you know perhaps who knows if it's true that in sophomore year of

1196
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:12,680
college kids all smoke marijuana often sometimes for the first time and watch Jacob's latter and I don't

1197
01:26:12,680 --> 01:26:18,040
know if that's real but I've heard of some so many places and so many times and it's very transformative

1198
01:26:18,040 --> 01:26:24,360
so that may or may not be true but it's still playing it's still there you know it's 30 some years since

1199
01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:31,480
almost 33 years not every movie gets to live in the consciousness of the of the public that

1200
01:26:31,480 --> 01:26:36,760
long I don't know why it has but I'm going to say it's because the message is coming through to people

1201
01:26:36,760 --> 01:26:42,680
and the message in ghost I mean literally and every movie I've ever done and I try to say that every

1202
01:26:42,680 --> 01:26:49,160
movie is like a sentence and that my entire career is like a paragraph you know of saying something to

1203
01:26:49,160 --> 01:26:54,840
the world and I don't know if you know what its impact will be and you know I'm at a point in my

1204
01:26:54,840 --> 01:27:00,760
life where I kind of have no identity with any of it I just was a great experience you know I mean

1205
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:07,080
Hollywood is really interesting ride I love it loved it and hated I don't say hated it but it's very

1206
01:27:07,080 --> 01:27:13,240
ego destroying you know you have all these other people sort of rewriting you much of the time and doing

1207
01:27:13,240 --> 01:27:19,720
all this stuff so you don't get your whole voice out there again my experience with Adrian was

1208
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:27,240
the compromise that hardest had to do with other artists to get their films made and in the end I'm

1209
01:27:27,240 --> 01:27:33,000
proud of the work you know although Jacob had a lot of it we had some struggles even at the very

1210
01:27:33,000 --> 01:27:41,320
very very end I will tell you in the last month we were doing previews for audiences and and they were

1211
01:27:41,320 --> 01:27:46,840
beginning to think that the last fifth of the movie didn't have to be there it was like too long

1212
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:53,880
and we cut it out for screenings of tests of audiences and they had the same result they said

1213
01:27:53,880 --> 01:27:58,600
that people liked it as much with it and without it and the studio decided we'll just cut out this

1214
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:05,960
last fifth of the movie which over time I've come to understand was kind of the spinning of a wheel one more

1215
01:28:05,960 --> 01:28:12,920
time then it needed to spin and I didn't know that yet but movies are you know if you were smart they

1216
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:18,280
they they're very cohesive and the extra moment may be pretty and interesting and things but a

1217
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:25,080
and a lot of directors succumbed to them extra stuff but Adrian and the studio at that point decided

1218
01:28:25,080 --> 01:28:31,960
it should go oh and they asked my blessing and I said okay for years I would watch Jacob's ladder when I

1219
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:37,320
did and the early days have missed it but then I didn't see it for like 20 some years and then I saw it

1220
01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:42,600
in the theater and I thought it was terrific and I didn't miss anything because I forgot what had been

1221
01:28:42,600 --> 01:28:48,680
cut out and it just worked so that was a great lesson for me you know among thousands of lessons

1222
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:54,760
I learned at Hollywood Jacob's ladder was a great teaching experience and I really loved

1223
01:28:54,760 --> 01:29:00,680
I love what it is I love that it got done I love that it happened along the same time as ghosts

1224
01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:09,560
so we were too synchronistically impactful films and in different ways and it changed my life I mean

1225
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:16,200
it changed my life a lot and I like all I can say is listen to the voices inside when they tell you

1226
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:23,240
to do they're very directive and they they they are very supportive of you and but they will do

1227
01:29:23,240 --> 01:29:30,600
everything in their power to make sure you're on board because if you're not if you're not sincerely

1228
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:36,280
there if you're not ready to risk everything to do their bidding whatever that may mean then they

1229
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:42,600
don't use it but if you if you hand yourself over to something greater and again everybody has an idea

1230
01:29:42,600 --> 01:29:49,800
of whatever that might be but for me it's not an abstraction again the LSD gave me a direct perception

1231
01:29:49,800 --> 01:29:59,320
of wow and then 50 years of meditating with a wonderful teacher and an idea and I have come to

1232
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:07,640
kind of witness that you will got the truth of the LSD experience as the core of the whole human

1233
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:14,680
journey and that we're all on it and I don't meet a lot of people who know that but I meet enough

1234
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:21,080
and I teach a lot of I teach meditation so I have students who deeply want to pursue this kind of

1235
01:30:21,080 --> 01:30:27,560
avenue and for me it's kind of like why are we here if not for that or maybe if you think you're just

1236
01:30:27,560 --> 01:30:33,160
here to get rich and laid and whatever else you think life may have to offer which is all real I mean

1237
01:30:33,160 --> 01:30:39,160
none of that an abstraction the thing that's you're here for is to face the thing that's coming at you

1238
01:30:39,160 --> 01:30:46,920
very rapidly every day and when you have to be my age you become aware of how rapidly what was that original

1239
01:30:46,920 --> 01:30:53,480
fifth that they took out the end of the movie involved and my mind I'm getting old so I can't

1240
01:30:53,480 --> 01:31:01,160
describe you the whole thing but there was an attempt to diffuse all of what Jacob was experiencing this

1241
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:08,360
the guy that he met and tried to help him sort of get out of the hellish experience that he was able

1242
01:31:08,360 --> 01:31:15,240
to kind of a drug thing and it puts him in a hole on a hole in the journey you think he may have been

1243
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:22,360
freed from the craziness that he was going through and then in the end you discovered that it didn't

1244
01:31:22,360 --> 01:31:28,280
do that it wasn't really necessary it was just a hope that he had found a path out and there is

1245
01:31:28,280 --> 01:31:37,640
a version of Jacob's ladder that has those scenes in it not as an extra I think a DVD so you can actually

1246
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:45,800
watch them if you want to they're really well made of course Adrian made them but they they don't

1247
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:52,200
expand the movie they don't they don't explain it in any greater depth they just give you a

1248
01:31:52,200 --> 01:31:57,080
moment where you hope he might escape this horrible thing that he's been going through and it doesn't

1249
01:31:57,080 --> 01:32:06,200
work but that happens anyway it was just 20 minutes of unnecessary spinning of the wheel but you know when you

1250
01:32:06,200 --> 01:32:11,880
shoot it cut it add it to the film look at it you love it and you think this is great and then you cut it

1251
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:17,480
out you know there's something gone there's something missing and of course I had written it so

1252
01:32:17,480 --> 01:32:26,920
Jacob had a lot of those life straight cutting aspects in my life on the other hand again

1253
01:32:26,920 --> 01:32:33,960
which is spiritual button in life in many ways from the meditative side it's to let go of your

1254
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:41,400
persona ego minded self and find the the watcher the witness the the underpinning being that

1255
01:32:41,400 --> 01:32:48,840
really is more the reason you're here than you believe Louis seems to stand out not just because of him being

1256
01:32:48,840 --> 01:32:56,120
this kind of very spiritual figure but also his name is different than almost everybody in the film

1257
01:32:56,120 --> 01:33:02,040
everybody seems to have a very very biblical name I mean are they very representative of the the

1258
01:33:02,040 --> 01:33:07,880
characters from the Bible I mean of course Jacob and Jacob Slatter and Jacob having the fight with God

1259
01:33:07,880 --> 01:33:15,640
it Jezebel but Louis seems to stand out a little bit the other characters were given kind of the

1260
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:22,040
vocal names for a reason Louis was my friend and carer practitor now I was going to use his name

1261
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:27,240
I took your DNA all the way there to learn how to become a carer practitor and he says good as

1262
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:34,280
is Louis and he is he has all the mental reasons and if you wouldn't if I put them in the same room

1263
01:33:34,280 --> 01:33:43,720
together you would actually have to go because they were so so alike so in the end I he I wanted him to stand

1264
01:33:43,720 --> 01:33:47,800
out I didn't know he was going to be a hero of the movie my agent at the time

1265
01:33:47,800 --> 01:33:54,840
Claire Degnar Cindy Degnar said you know he's your hero he's the hero he's the

1266
01:33:54,840 --> 01:34:01,880
say and she had me become more dynamic in writing him as the guy the person who goes in the hospital

1267
01:34:01,880 --> 01:34:07,960
and gets it takes him out of the hospital and pushes nurses and everybody else away I loved that he did

1268
01:34:07,960 --> 01:34:14,200
that and to this day carer practitor when they know that I wrote Jacob's ladder her very appreciated

1269
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:19,240
you seem to have a very good attitude about the film you enjoy it now you like it but I don't think

1270
01:34:19,240 --> 01:34:24,120
it was I was like that there was some bitterness in those interviews that I was reading back in the early

1271
01:34:24,120 --> 01:34:30,280
90s no it was a struggle it was a struggle it and I had he bit started every sentence with with all

1272
01:34:30,280 --> 01:34:36,520
due respect but and he was respectful but he was cutting my throat over and over and over and over he was

1273
01:34:36,520 --> 01:34:42,360
cutting out the heart of my movie in some ways in my mind changing the image changing the the nature

1274
01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:48,760
of the film and there was no proof and at that moment that he was making it better it was just making

1275
01:34:48,760 --> 01:34:54,200
it different and for reasons I didn't understand and I didn't know I didn't know what to do about it I was

1276
01:34:54,200 --> 01:35:01,320
you know your writers are very disempowered and Hollywood Adrian gave me some power but I have to say

1277
01:35:01,320 --> 01:35:08,600
you also to someone who listens to everyone including the script girl the producer the stage hands you

1278
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:12,200
know what do you think what do you think better what do you think and I'm standing there you go

1279
01:35:12,200 --> 01:35:17,400
what do you mean what do you think I'm the writer and that it was not what he did he didn't the writer

1280
01:35:17,400 --> 01:35:24,120
was just another person in the mix that's very hard for a writer but do you understand that

1281
01:35:24,120 --> 01:35:31,960
most writers are not around what I'm movie is made they are not allowed to be on the set because exactly

1282
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:36,360
the reasons we're dealing with here they don't agree with the director and you can't out of

1283
01:35:36,360 --> 01:35:43,080
bored at however many tends to 20s to hundreds of thousands of dollars a minute you know to let the

1284
01:35:43,080 --> 01:35:50,040
writer go no it wouldn't be like they can't do that and I understand it I don't love it because it's

1285
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:55,880
not the way it should be I you know I did a musical of ghost the only play I've ever done we did it you know

1286
01:35:55,880 --> 01:36:01,720
I loved it in Broadway and the writers right there you know the writers big part of what goes on and theater

1287
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:06,920
Hollywood know you were the writer it is nobody in the end and I describe it as a total of

1288
01:36:06,920 --> 01:36:11,560
pull and you think you'd be the low man and I said no no you're not the low man on the total

1289
01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:17,240
pull you're the party stick on the ground you're the thing that holds the whole thing up but there's

1290
01:36:17,240 --> 01:36:23,960
no you're not part of it and so I went through that with Adrian and a big way I had been going through

1291
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:31,480
the opposite of that with Jerry Zucker on Ghost who was when Biden me in who made me a partner in many

1292
01:36:31,480 --> 01:36:38,360
many ways that he didn't have to do and we had an extraordinary journey once the film was scripted finished

1293
01:36:38,360 --> 01:36:43,880
I mean Jerry actually changed the script so much at one point and I was gonna leave the film but then he

1294
01:36:43,880 --> 01:36:51,160
had the intelligence I guess to keep going and we wrote after we I was at 10 drafts where I was going to

1295
01:36:51,160 --> 01:36:56,760
quit at night graph 19 we were at found ourselves in the best possible version of Ghost and move it

1296
01:36:56,760 --> 01:37:01,720
that got made that was a extraordinary experience and then I was on the set with him literally every

1297
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:07,240
day except when I would go see Adrian and Jacob's latter from the very beginning it was the

1298
01:37:07,240 --> 01:37:13,560
opposite it was it was struggle and difficulty but I bet tight it's better to struggle with other

1299
01:37:13,560 --> 01:37:19,560
I still make sure who knows what they're doing and who we can kind of trust in the end that's not

1300
01:37:19,560 --> 01:37:27,320
always the case but I really I really did a trusted Adrian and we went through a biblical struggle

1301
01:37:27,320 --> 01:37:35,560
of trying to find a common ground for the film and I think in the end we did but with me screaming

1302
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:41,720
pitching all the way how close to Jacob's latter get to being made before Adrian stepped into the picture

1303
01:37:41,720 --> 01:37:47,560
not close at all a lot of directors said yes that they were interested big ones would they

1304
01:37:47,560 --> 01:37:54,120
Scott I mean they're a whole bunch of a bunch of guys but it didn't happen for one reason after another and

1305
01:37:54,120 --> 01:37:58,840
mostly studios didn't want to make Jacob's latter they didn't understand with it didn't understand why anybody

1306
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:04,280
would want to see this kind of a movie paramil was gonna do it because they were doing Ghost and Lindsey

1307
01:38:04,280 --> 01:38:11,240
was there and then Dawn Steel was there and it was all kind of a go and then when the new president

1308
01:38:11,240 --> 01:38:20,680
came in and said no fighting in our place to do Jacob's latter was really hard just nobody nobody was

1309
01:38:20,680 --> 01:38:27,160
willing it seemed to step up until suddenly the small company but they were that small or Carol Go

1310
01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:35,640
came forward and and they said they would do it they were not totally easy about for this I mean

1311
01:38:35,640 --> 01:38:41,880
old Hollywood stories but after a lunch world they agreed I got home and got a note saying the

1312
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:48,600
only go forward if you are willing to cut your salary I think your feet on this film by quite a bit

1313
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:54,280
and I didn't know what to do it was my my movie it was in a contract I had already been granted this

1314
01:38:54,680 --> 01:39:02,040
I relied on it and I thought oh my god and I had to call everyone I knew my agents my lawyers you

1315
01:39:02,040 --> 01:39:08,680
everyone no one was available nobody and I had to make the decision by five or clock they said

1316
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:16,120
so I ended up calling Adrian and said look I may cost us the movie but I'm not giving up my feet

1317
01:39:16,120 --> 01:39:21,640
and he said I'm right on board with you which was incredible and I called Carol Gole and the

1318
01:39:21,640 --> 01:39:26,920
agents and everybody and said that they said you're making the biggest mistake of your life but I got the money

1319
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:33,400
and the movie weren't forward so it was just yeah but a horrible play I'm very highly very

1320
01:39:33,400 --> 01:39:37,960
Hollywood I gotta tell you I'm weird I don't want to do bad stories on Hollywood but there are

1321
01:39:37,960 --> 01:39:44,200
there are many to be told and Hollywood served me very well and I've been you know very

1322
01:39:44,200 --> 01:39:51,560
forward comfortable in my life but they don't treat people well in some people I think are really damaged

1323
01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:58,280
in that situation unlikely I'd be opposite I was confident yeah Carol Gole is an odd

1324
01:39:58,280 --> 01:40:03,720
place for it just because they were known really by that time as being action action action action

1325
01:40:03,720 --> 01:40:08,520
yeah then they were like what total recall a lot of the check-in-nourous films and things were

1326
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:15,400
all coming out of current they were like I step up from globe asking out yes they were and not exceedingly

1327
01:40:15,400 --> 01:40:20,920
knowledgeable I think they saw this is just a horror film and they had Adrian who they wanted and I

1328
01:40:20,920 --> 01:40:25,400
think that's why they made the movie and then it was interesting again I had a very very

1329
01:40:25,400 --> 01:40:32,840
minister role there until Gole came out that summer and Jacob came out of October and Gole said

1330
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:39,000
"become within weeks the biggest film of the year" you know and suddenly they were calling me

1331
01:40:39,000 --> 01:40:43,480
how should we market our film what should we do what is your answer what do you think and I said just

1332
01:40:43,480 --> 01:40:49,880
call it an art film don't make it a horror film make it an art film and they tried to do that it didn't

1333
01:40:49,880 --> 01:40:55,880
truly succeed because it's not an easy film to categorize but they did open it and it did have

1334
01:40:55,880 --> 01:41:02,200
you know it had a run I will tell you my very my first experience standing outside the theater

1335
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:08,600
in Westwood and Los Angeles waiting for the audience to come out of an afternoon screening to wait to see

1336
01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:13,800
their faces and their eyes and what they thought you know and before the titles were over some guy runs

1337
01:41:13,800 --> 01:41:19,480
off of the theater and he's standing there under the marquee and he yells at top of his lungs

1338
01:41:19,480 --> 01:41:26,120
"if I ever meet the guy who wrote this movie I'll kill him" and I went "okay I just turned and

1339
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:31,480
walked back to the parking lot and got my car in droplet" that was that but I you know I realized

1340
01:41:31,480 --> 01:41:36,680
I had touched up I touched the button little fuse or something and somebody probably more than one

1341
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:44,920
and you know I just felt I did what I was told I was I'm not responsible for the reactions to my

1342
01:41:44,920 --> 01:41:52,920
films and and I found in my life very rarely did I get a lot of attention from people I mean

1343
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:58,520
other than family or friends I never would meet people who saw my movies and I just just a rare

1344
01:41:58,520 --> 01:42:04,600
desire kind of thing it was all the universe was just trying to keep me away from whatever that was because

1345
01:42:04,600 --> 01:42:10,360
it didn't want to inflate me as doing the opposite so I really saw people who saw the films

1346
01:42:10,360 --> 01:42:15,560
that were on a rare occasion when I did it was it was pleasurable it was a good it was helpful for me

1347
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:23,560
but it was it was in small dollops not big scoops you know of appreciation and I've lived with

1348
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:30,280
that my whole life really I remain I think I'm a rather obscure character in the world of whatever all

1349
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:37,800
this is not the Hollywood thing but I don't I don't crave it on any level at all I just never was a need

1350
01:42:37,800 --> 01:42:42,920
I'm just grateful so I'm not they made you know 10/11 of my movie he's earned a that's

1351
01:42:42,920 --> 01:42:48,120
so actually in Hollywood terms is not about God record after he has like a third of my

1352
01:42:48,920 --> 01:42:55,480
old my old LSD helped you know expand your world it made such a huge difference for you and there's

1353
01:42:55,480 --> 01:43:03,720
that versus the drug that is administered annoyingly to Jacob and his entire troop you know such

1354
01:43:03,720 --> 01:43:09,720
a different experience between the two drug experiences and just that what is definitely very bad

1355
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:15,240
and the other one really helped you out yeah you know even in this interview there want to be

1356
01:43:15,240 --> 01:43:22,440
a spokesperson for LSD what happened to me was anomaly it was an overdose it was a lot of different things

1357
01:43:22,440 --> 01:43:29,880
I have friends who have not had good experiences on LSD others who have so a cyber and other drugs

1358
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:36,200
have had kind of a weakening aspect for people there's tribal involvement from various places around the

1359
01:43:36,200 --> 01:43:43,320
world where whole groups come together for a common initiation into the larger picture but um I did

1360
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:50,600
I did want to make a Jacob someone who had taken a drug that had a strange altering experience for people

1361
01:43:50,600 --> 01:43:55,080
but it was it is fictional I wondered I thought it was fictional but I were discovering of

1362
01:43:55,080 --> 01:44:01,000
courses that such things have been done in the military that producer of the film wanted to put

1363
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:08,760
that as a title on the screen I believe it's there and I said no no no this film is not about that

1364
01:44:08,760 --> 01:44:17,320
really it's just um it's a story of a guy trying to understand how he how he died you know and what

1365
01:44:17,320 --> 01:44:22,200
happened to everybody and he was he was banned that it really by guys who went crazy but he asked

1366
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:28,280
the drug was a background to that but he wasn't killed by the means necessarily I mean to the degree

1367
01:44:28,280 --> 01:44:33,880
that we ever know the truth of our own device you know you can still buy a I've been very lying

1368
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:42,360
we were able to play the soldier I don't try to advocate at all for drugs and I tried if I do say anything

1369
01:44:42,360 --> 01:44:48,200
positive other than that I had a life changing experience it's set be cautious a lot of drugs are

1370
01:44:48,200 --> 01:44:53,080
a pure a lot of drugs come at you from the wrong way wrong setting when you take a drug is really

1371
01:44:53,080 --> 01:44:59,400
disastrous wrong people around you uh it's just not it's not a play toy at all it's a it's a

1372
01:44:59,400 --> 01:45:07,240
sacramental moment and if you do it sacramental you can understand that great but if not I I don't I'm

1373
01:45:07,240 --> 01:45:13,240
not sure I would put that in front of me or for anyone on the other hand there are a lot of little

1374
01:45:13,240 --> 01:45:19,400
tastes of it marijuana you know being you're kind of a little glimpse of the bigger picture and you know

1375
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:26,040
other but the things that people do but in the end I want people to look at this journey of

1376
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:34,920
their own life that they're in from some altered perspective so it's not just kind of head on blind you know

1377
01:45:34,920 --> 01:45:40,440
doing the thing that will keep you financially comfortable or you know or take care of you have

1378
01:45:40,440 --> 01:45:46,440
been a little bit of a kid around people around you I mean all that's fine but it's an existential journey

1379
01:45:46,440 --> 01:45:55,480
from nothing to nothing or for or to um that I have a good call on John in the end it's the absence of all

1380
01:45:55,480 --> 01:46:01,000
of all three its impermanence it does you can't live a permanent life in an impermanence state and

1381
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:07,640
you cannot look to the level of impermanence around you as for the answers because they don't hold

1382
01:46:07,640 --> 01:46:15,320
water usually the most they can do is point you to this place inside where answers do arrive

1383
01:46:15,320 --> 01:46:21,960
and not only that movies arise of music Beethoven you know there's something is arising from that place

1384
01:46:21,960 --> 01:46:27,320
and now is listening to Beethoven's fifth year the day just kind of lying there and experiencing

1385
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:32,680
or a moment what are you missed to be like to hear that music for the very first time as you're

1386
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:40,120
putting it on to notes you know and feeling what that feels like to be the recipient of

1387
01:46:40,120 --> 01:46:47,240
that that that the the you know what what is that and it's like so beautiful it's so beautiful we're

1388
01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:53,160
getting that every day we are getting grace notes at least if not symphonies all the time and if people

1389
01:46:53,160 --> 01:47:00,200
can connect to the grace notes it feels like it's really really beautiful that mean beyond belief

1390
01:47:00,200 --> 01:47:06,840
and and the journey here starts to quietly make some kind of sense not necessarily intellectual

1391
01:47:06,840 --> 01:47:14,200
mind sense but a kind of annoying of this is really pretty special kind of magical I really like how the

1392
01:47:14,200 --> 01:47:20,760
movie wrong puts us a few times with the disappearance of the psychiatrist the explosion of the

1393
01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:27,400
car with brutal events and it just an Alexander like no nothing happened I got a phone call it's very

1394
01:47:27,400 --> 01:47:33,000
much conspiracy theory through so much of it and makes us think that we're in a conspiracy theory film

1395
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:38,840
even though we're not look at life things we know to be true so may our true the world as we think it is

1396
01:47:38,840 --> 01:47:45,000
isn't and if it is it is for a minute then it's not so you know Jacob's latter kind of plays with

1397
01:47:45,000 --> 01:47:53,320
those insecurities of knowledge of certainty you know because if anything I don't I think certainty

1398
01:47:53,320 --> 01:47:59,320
is a real problem you know it's a religious problem it's a psychological problem everything is

1399
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:05,160
liquid in a way it flows in different ways and holding on to one thing as it's altering underneath you

1400
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:11,720
and beneath you and around you is kind of kind of a waste of time in a way it's kind of sad but it's

1401
01:48:11,720 --> 01:48:17,960
very common even experience and now we're living in a world of such unbelievable transformative

1402
01:48:17,960 --> 01:48:22,840
sort of change of ability and not knowing what's what up what's up what's down what's real what's

1403
01:48:22,840 --> 01:48:30,200
not real so Jacob's latter just kind of puts a light on that you know and that's and and I think touches truths

1404
01:48:30,200 --> 01:48:37,800
a little more perfectly than than those a lock you into the happily ever after you know which I think

1405
01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:45,560
is kind of very comforting to the psyche but what is ever after and even ever after has has an end and

1406
01:48:45,560 --> 01:48:51,960
even you know people like me get old and things fall apart and you don't you know why me but of course

1407
01:48:51,960 --> 01:48:58,600
what a stupid question you know you show me somebody who doesn't why me and you know I would like to find

1408
01:48:58,600 --> 01:49:05,640
that so that's the reason Jacob's latter has a lot of undercoming of beliefs and truth and

1409
01:49:05,640 --> 01:49:10,680
and repositioning of thought mine from oh this is what's happening oh he's married oh he has

1410
01:49:10,680 --> 01:49:16,680
told always got a lover oh he's he's just you know what what is real and that's a really good

1411
01:49:16,680 --> 01:49:23,400
question what is real why the post office is it the exchange of one uniform for another I don't know

1412
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:29,480
I was told post office I mean literally just said put them in a post office and part of the world

1413
01:49:29,480 --> 01:49:35,560
you talked about that journey of ghost I am curious how that changed throughout it because it's so

1414
01:49:35,560 --> 01:49:41,400
unusual with you know Zucker's background is so much more comedy and you're coming to things from

1415
01:49:41,960 --> 01:49:47,320
yes you can do comedy obviously but it's not really like the the thing that you're known for what is

1416
01:49:47,320 --> 01:49:53,400
that mash up of the two personalities and that journey of the script well the smartest thing I did

1417
01:49:53,400 --> 01:50:00,520
was when I was told that Jerry Zucker wanted to do ghost I didn't have a good reaction to that I was told

1418
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:06,840
I was asked by Lindsay are you sitting down and I said yeah she said we have a director who wants to

1419
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:13,240
do ghost and I'm taking skillbergs course as you know the couple of bullets and then she said Jerry Zucker

1420
01:50:13,240 --> 01:50:18,680
and my inside collapsed in a way because I thought you know be the juice that just come out and I

1421
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:22,680
just thought we're all returning this one into a comedy somehow I don't know how but I didn't know

1422
01:50:22,680 --> 01:50:29,560
what to say or do but we arranged to dinner Jerry and I and I set a ground rule which I think was really

1423
01:50:29,560 --> 01:50:34,360
smart and I would recommend to other people I said we can talk about everything and anything except

1424
01:50:34,360 --> 01:50:40,440
ghost and so we just sat down and talked for hours and we became friends and we're still friends

1425
01:50:40,440 --> 01:50:46,840
this day and that just started things on the right track then when we started dealing with the movie

1426
01:50:46,840 --> 01:50:56,600
of course I got crazy like Hollywood stories do but all I could do was think um you know I got a stick

1427
01:50:56,600 --> 01:51:01,400
this out I got a stick and I tried as best I could and then at the breaking point was the tenth

1428
01:51:01,400 --> 01:51:06,680
draft then I thought well I could just leave now but someone else is just gonna come in and turn it into

1429
01:51:06,680 --> 01:51:12,760
something else I might as well be the one who does it so I stayed in the end he and I just found our

1430
01:51:12,760 --> 01:51:18,840
weight to the same place and it was really beautiful and it was a better movie than I would have written

1431
01:51:18,840 --> 01:51:24,280
that's really a better movie than he would have written we just found our way to what it should be

1432
01:51:24,280 --> 01:51:29,000
it's great we was that starting place for you whatever the differences between what you originally

1433
01:51:29,000 --> 01:51:36,200
came up with and what we see today it's very close to the original except you wanted more comedy he helped

1434
01:51:36,200 --> 01:51:42,280
me really I think it helped me understand the uh order may woppy gold bro character although I really did

1435
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:49,720
end up getting her voice right I think and enjoy it fully so uh he wanted like a scene in the bank which

1436
01:51:49,720 --> 01:51:58,520
I didn't have where she goes to help get the money out of the bank but you wanted to have some juice

1437
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:03,800
some joy at funnyness and then I and I like to think I was a play that my mother had been in when she was

1438
01:52:03,800 --> 01:52:09,080
young she was an amateur actress and I had had helped her with the lines of a play and it was about a

1439
01:52:09,080 --> 01:52:15,560
family we had a party and someone arrived at the party who nobody none of the people throwing the

1440
01:52:15,560 --> 01:52:20,360
party could remember who it was and this person was so familiar with them and so the man sits on

1441
01:52:20,360 --> 01:52:26,600
with the piano to play something the husband and and he goes I don't know who they are they are

1442
01:52:26,600 --> 01:52:33,640
are they are you have any idea idea and the woman goes oh I don't know what I mean so they're seeing the song

1443
01:52:33,640 --> 01:52:38,600
with this guy standing there knowing he thinks it's a song and so that's where the idea of the bank

1444
01:52:38,600 --> 01:52:45,240
comes in where order may is there with Sam and Sam is knowing all these things about the banker

1445
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:50,840
that can't be known and an order may has all these stories about oh how's your family how's

1446
01:52:50,840 --> 01:52:57,880
everybody and she's naming names doing all that stuff and so I wrote this scene and Roder over to Jerry's

1447
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:02,200
house one night and sat down stairs with Janet his wife he went upstairs to read it and I'm

1448
01:53:02,200 --> 01:53:08,600
hearing roaring laughter just roaring laughter and then he walks downstairs it comes over gives me a

1449
01:53:08,600 --> 01:53:15,800
kiss on the head and says we got the feel of the film really came out of his pushing that kind of

1450
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:23,240
experience and it worked it just worked and it was real is a joy I mean really I mean think about ghost

1451
01:53:23,240 --> 01:53:30,680
other than if tiny very very little problems was just joyous to this second to this very moment

1452
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:36,600
I mean everything about it is like a gift the history channel does this thing about what's the

1453
01:53:36,600 --> 01:53:41,000
most of the court invent and occurred on this day in the past period of time so the day was

1454
01:53:41,000 --> 01:53:49,480
July 13th of the history and they said the most important thing that happened on July 13th was ghost opened

1455
01:53:49,480 --> 01:53:56,360
in 1990 and I called Lindsay Durand and I said do you believe this she said Maraths Ab died on

1456
01:53:56,360 --> 01:54:03,640
July 13th. I can happen ghost be the most important thing that happened on that day and then I agreed

1457
01:54:03,640 --> 01:54:09,320
in the end but you know they're talking about it 30 some years later and not a lot of movies

1458
01:54:09,320 --> 01:54:14,680
were that happening I've written rather movies where people are not talking about them to this day they're not on

1459
01:54:14,680 --> 01:54:22,040
anybody's list at all you win some you lose some and the journey is kind of kind of kind of remarkable

1460
01:54:22,040 --> 01:54:29,720
ghost ghost had an impact and in about three from months ago it was somebody set me a thing it was like

1461
01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:36,760
question on jeopardy you know and it said there's a movie by Bristol Ruben in which is the plot

1462
01:54:36,760 --> 01:54:42,200
famed from a scene hamlet which is true because I saw a got the idea of a ghost saying we'd bench my

1463
01:54:42,200 --> 01:54:47,480
depth and they said what is that movie and of course you know the answer was ghost and somebody rubbed me

1464
01:54:47,480 --> 01:54:53,640
and said you're a hero you're a hero you're you're you're I think you're on jeopardy and someone said to me

1465
01:54:53,640 --> 01:55:00,040
no you're just you're just an incidental thing you're not important it's it's not an important

1466
01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:05,080
thing at all it's just you just happen to fill time on jeopardy what are we who are we what is

1467
01:55:05,080 --> 01:55:11,560
a matter you know in the long run but but it was funny that these that these events should occur in that

1468
01:55:11,560 --> 01:55:16,200
in that way and that you look back over a life and you end up as a quote on jeopardy and there's a

1469
01:55:16,200 --> 01:55:23,800
history channel saying you were an important event nothing of it's true you know it's a funny

1470
01:55:23,800 --> 01:55:29,080
it's a funny life Hollywood that's all I can tell you and the ride has proven to be really

1471
01:55:29,080 --> 01:55:34,040
really interesting several times to our conversation even today you've said oh that'll take

1472
01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:39,000
up a whole story out of that that's a whole other thing are you writing these down are you doing the

1473
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:45,240
memoir yeah I have just I thought finished the memoir but the editor just convinced it's finished

1474
01:55:45,240 --> 01:55:49,400
my son isn't convinced it's finished people last week of changing certain things so it's probably

1475
01:55:49,400 --> 01:55:55,560
going to have another draft pretty soon but it doesn't memorialize most of these stories and many many

1476
01:55:55,560 --> 01:56:01,480
others and it add up and it's a you know it's a very strange thing because you know at the end of

1477
01:56:01,480 --> 01:56:08,600
life and again LSD gave me a picture of that you kind of have to stand naked in front of the universe and

1478
01:56:08,600 --> 01:56:15,640
stand up for the totality and be available to the totality all the hidden stuff gets very exposed so I decided

1479
01:56:15,640 --> 01:56:21,960
I would write this book with everything exposed to which is a little bit tricky and scary but I figured

1480
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:28,440
when it comes to be my time to go into the afterlife I'm going to take my memoir and go here and if all

1481
01:56:28,440 --> 01:56:34,760
is if all is well it's all there I don't have to repeat it I don't have to hide from it I don't have to do anything

1482
01:56:34,760 --> 01:56:40,520
done you know and then go from there but we'll see how that works out so I imagine that's keeping you busy

1483
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:47,240
what else are you up to these days I'm very much getting old I'm up to getting old I love I moved three

1484
01:56:47,240 --> 01:56:53,080
times following my grandchildren reality being an upstate New York I was living in uh Seattle I lived

1485
01:56:53,080 --> 01:56:58,360
in upstate California I had a house all that time in Los Angeles but it's a long story how

1486
01:56:58,360 --> 01:57:03,400
I got here but I'm here because I love my grandchildren I'm not going to move again because I'm just

1487
01:57:03,400 --> 01:57:10,760
getting too old for it but being here with them is pure joy my kids being well is probably more

1488
01:57:10,760 --> 01:57:16,520
important to me than my being well at this point my wife being well she's really the hero of my

1489
01:57:16,520 --> 01:57:22,920
life and she she's made it all possible I mean again I would never have moved to Hollywood she

1490
01:57:22,920 --> 01:57:31,000
hadn't quit her job and sold the house so you know that's been a very lucky moment and it really is

1491
01:57:31,000 --> 01:57:41,080
unfolding but I will tell you that I'm the key thing is that aging experience is so difficult so

1492
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:49,080
profoundly what everyone tells you not for sisys idea and it really is the ultimate test of your

1493
01:57:49,080 --> 01:57:56,440
whatever it may be your reality your devotion your spirituality your lack of spirituality losing your body

1494
01:57:56,440 --> 01:58:03,080
and all of its faculties and then watching the world strangely go into chaotic mode around you at the

1495
01:58:03,080 --> 01:58:09,000
same time so you can't quite distinguish whether it's you or it and all of what's going on right now

1496
01:58:09,000 --> 01:58:18,120
is unbelievably challenging the only thing I have going for me is an meditative practice that's

1497
01:58:18,120 --> 01:58:23,800
ingrained for 50 years you know I was sitting in a up for mall it just office and they dropped up

1498
01:58:23,800 --> 01:58:31,880
dropped some eyes and we're waiting for for the drops to purpature what they do and and they left

1499
01:58:31,880 --> 01:58:36,680
the office and left me in the lawn and I suddenly had a panic attack and I've never in my whole life

1500
01:58:36,680 --> 01:58:41,560
had a panic attack I didn't even know where panic attacks were I mean I I feel you know I

1501
01:58:42,120 --> 01:58:48,600
didn't realize them but the experience is beyond horror for a fine had I began to apologize instantly

1502
01:58:48,600 --> 01:58:54,600
for every human being who's ever had one and but I didn't know what to do and so I just went to the

1503
01:58:54,600 --> 01:59:01,720
very core of my sort of breathing meditative exercise which is going inward and I found so much

1504
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:08,520
help and release and comfort in that space the whole panic attack just were good like that

1505
01:59:08,520 --> 01:59:18,280
at what wow wow I can do that I have found as I have aged that the body is not easy on us and it's

1506
01:59:18,280 --> 01:59:26,680
as it does that the one thing I have is I can go inside and be observed of it without being caught by it

1507
01:59:26,680 --> 01:59:33,480
and learning to be a observer rather than just lost in the experience is wonderful but but in the

1508
01:59:33,480 --> 01:59:38,040
world we live in unfortunately in the western world there is no practice of internalizing

1509
01:59:38,040 --> 01:59:43,640
things it just doesn't exist we are not very much we're kind of out there in the world we don't have

1510
01:59:43,640 --> 01:59:49,000
quiet time usually so what I've come to and this is an interesting thing because it's the teaching

1511
01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:54,440
of the Dalai Lama which is why I think I have probably been a student of the whole time I've come to

1512
01:59:54,440 --> 02:00:01,240
two simple facts one is I don't know anything at all I don't really know anything and two the

1513
02:00:01,240 --> 02:00:05,880
simplest thing I've come to which is the core of the Dalai Lama teaching and the Buddhist teaching

1514
02:00:05,880 --> 02:00:14,920
and Christ teaching is the kind a kind person be good that's 50 years of meditating writing movies

1515
02:00:14,920 --> 02:00:20,520
living this life and all it's come down to is something that people have talked about for thousands of

1516
02:00:20,520 --> 02:00:26,600
years and to me it's the ultimate truth that all you can do and it really is a practice because being

1517
02:00:26,600 --> 02:00:33,160
kind means not being reactive to every single thing that comes up in some nuclear reactive way

1518
02:00:33,160 --> 02:00:40,840
you know you need to just say no to that response do not go there choose to be good rather than bad or

1519
02:00:40,840 --> 02:00:47,720
fine rather than not kind and see where that goes and that's the right I think I've been on my whole

1520
02:00:47,720 --> 02:00:56,360
life I thought it had a lot more grandiosity that I had light and mental awakening and all that kind

1521
02:00:56,360 --> 02:01:04,200
of spiritual stuff which is real and a way is all fine but it's easier to be enlightened and awakened

1522
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:08,920
if you don't have children and grandchildren and a house to support if you just live in a monastery

1523
02:01:08,920 --> 02:01:16,120
we just sit under a tree for years that makes it easier and it's easier when you're young when you're old

1524
02:01:16,120 --> 02:01:24,040
and the structure of your body mind is collapsing that's when the work comes in and I hope people

1525
02:01:24,040 --> 02:01:31,080
who are enlightened can use that enlightenment to pass through that path that doorway but I've learned

1526
02:01:31,080 --> 02:01:36,280
since that Buddha even it may have seen turn eight he's struggling with so many things I'm struggling

1527
02:01:36,280 --> 02:01:41,480
with like back problems and all these other things and you know he did set he would just go

1528
02:01:41,480 --> 02:01:46,600
sequiler he told other people to teach and he would just go sit and try to go inwardly and like that

1529
02:01:46,600 --> 02:01:51,080
panic attack that was the one thing that kind of worked and you have to work it when you got

1530
02:01:51,080 --> 02:01:56,840
old because you got nowhere else to go except these horrible or old drugs you know that that turned you

1531
02:01:56,840 --> 02:02:01,800
as my own doctors said into a zombie figuring it out and how is the time to do it and films like

1532
02:02:01,800 --> 02:02:06,600
ghost and Jacob's ladder and god knows where ever else their time travels wife maybe my life

1533
02:02:06,600 --> 02:02:13,400
even brainstorm they're all they're all they're to teach you their way that there's no ending here

1534
02:02:13,400 --> 02:02:18,920
the ending is not about the end of the physical world there is something beyond it that's even bigger

1535
02:02:18,920 --> 02:02:25,320
than this and you should kind of pair the way mr. Rubin thank you so much for your time this has been

1536
02:02:25,320 --> 02:02:31,480
so great talking like you like I'm happy to do it I've learned something great lesson which is

1537
02:02:31,480 --> 02:02:38,040
don't say no I had no idea what today would be but I feel you've been so open and so

1538
02:02:38,040 --> 02:02:44,360
receptive and so wonderful and so available and so thank you for that and I'm glad I got to put this

1539
02:02:44,360 --> 02:02:49,800
out there and I hope you could watch it have some car go interesting response

1540
02:03:08,920 --> 02:03:14,520
you were an accountant before you became a commercial director and how did you make that transition?

1541
02:03:14,520 --> 02:03:19,320
yeah I was an article club coming love and love for believe I mean I knew love's absolutely

1542
02:03:19,320 --> 02:03:24,360
developed and got a clue where I was doing and my only interested in those days was playing a

1543
02:03:24,360 --> 02:03:30,360
trumpet I played the trumpet jazz beat for about 10 years and so some semi-pro than I would

1544
02:03:30,360 --> 02:03:37,400
play to a three times a week or whatever and I met somebody at the account and said

1545
02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:42,840
I obviously wasn't the other being an accountant he said I was a member he said if you don't know

1546
02:03:42,840 --> 02:03:48,280
what you should go out of advertising because they can also stop you can wire you can

1547
02:03:48,280 --> 02:03:53,720
I'm really a gear and I'm pretty sure they went into the old whatever you need to try so I went into

1548
02:03:53,720 --> 02:04:00,200
the mailing one of the javals Thompson and thought of wandered around it was like a

1549
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:09,400
raba one down old hotel in the trip to men's actually I love being there and so I would therefore

1550
02:04:09,400 --> 02:04:15,000
the six months and I walked people like to look at John's slaving or working doing commercial

1551
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:20,600
scene of success to grow that and I worked on a documentary and I graduated from that

1552
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:26,680
sort of then I went on the production side which was the last one the latest idea of what I was

1553
02:04:26,680 --> 02:04:35,800
doing producing commercials and then ultimately I got a shot at directing I mean you do a third

1554
02:04:35,800 --> 02:04:43,160
the lady called Jenny Armstrong started a production company up to misciplied doing commercials

1555
02:04:43,160 --> 02:04:49,960
we did nothing for 18 months and we all sat around the king of jadda that each other in one room

1556
02:04:50,520 --> 02:04:58,920
and then eventually Adam Parker found in us left an advertising agency called CDP and he came and

1557
02:04:58,920 --> 02:05:05,960
made the company work this company called Jenny and girl because he was getting said work from CDP

1558
02:05:05,960 --> 02:05:12,600
and he immediately started working so I'm watching jallously while I try and I'm trying to learn to

1559
02:05:12,600 --> 02:05:19,640
type, understand carefully what she came working this way he worked him in week they commercial so you know

1560
02:05:19,640 --> 02:05:25,320
eventually I hadn't got the slightest idea what I was doing again no during one night somebody gave me

1561
02:05:25,320 --> 02:05:33,160
a test commercial on before a deodorant I remember that was sort of an interesting idea it was

1562
02:05:33,160 --> 02:05:41,720
like it was as I say for a deodorant and it was a couple making love but just on that hands you sort of

1563
02:05:41,720 --> 02:05:48,040
indicating what they were doing just by their hands and it was sort of fun and people liked it so I

1564
02:05:48,040 --> 02:05:53,480
gradually got this in pieces to do but it was a trial by fire you know I'm not a sitting

1565
02:05:53,480 --> 02:06:01,160
peers in the book because my shot they're still working in the laminate for you know so it was

1566
02:06:01,160 --> 02:06:07,080
a fairly agonizing until I did a couple of things that worked well I didn't a job still imagine

1567
02:06:07,080 --> 02:06:15,720
it was quite good calls called the table that people liked to these all shot in extreme clothes up

1568
02:06:15,720 --> 02:06:22,600
on the breakfast table and it was about a couple who were breaking up and sort of about geolity

1569
02:06:22,600 --> 02:06:29,080
and stuff and how their hands were flecked in their guilt or lapels it's quite interesting

1570
02:06:29,080 --> 02:06:33,880
you might be happy to know that they actually showed that and one of my phone classes one

1571
02:06:33,880 --> 02:06:40,120
I was in college. It's getting really yeah because they were talking about that kind of movement of

1572
02:06:40,120 --> 02:06:46,920
commercial directors from England coming over yourself, Alan Parker, Tony Scott, Ridley Scott

1573
02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:51,480
and just showing us it was the importance of close ups and they showed us the table.

1574
02:06:51,480 --> 02:06:55,800
Oh I'm glad you didn't want to help you like it it's not like that and all that interesting I think

1575
02:06:55,800 --> 02:07:01,000
what was because you know the visual was extended you know a lot of it was so emotional and

1576
02:07:01,000 --> 02:07:09,080
repeated the sound was quite interesting because it was also repeated you know the sentence was

1577
02:07:09,080 --> 02:07:16,600
sort of jumbled up in order to the visual. You saw them saying it was unrepeted and stuff and so

1578
02:07:16,600 --> 02:07:21,800
the time I think it was quite good I'd call you into the actual sound point if you were as well

1579
02:07:21,800 --> 02:07:27,720
on clarity like it. How did you make their transition from shorts and commercials to feature films

1580
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:35,000
so? Well I was in in Los Angeles doing a commercial for revive that thing and I met David Hartman

1581
02:07:35,000 --> 02:07:39,960
who was working there at a company called Caster Blanker I think you know I'm many of

1582
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:45,480
his objects and he's frung literally slung and he scripted me and said something was to think of

1583
02:07:45,480 --> 02:07:50,120
this he said he won't do it he said look it's for an American director but I read it and I

1584
02:07:50,120 --> 02:07:55,240
would say it was foxes it was a little of the story about kids growing up and you know the

1585
02:07:55,240 --> 02:08:02,760
delinquid kids growing up and the body shamp from that valley in or down to this so he somehow got

1586
02:08:02,760 --> 02:08:08,120
them to let me do it and that actually I remember there was one meeting where he started squeeney

1587
02:08:08,120 --> 02:08:13,400
and it didn't make a word of sense for you to say but people could see his passion to make

1588
02:08:13,400 --> 02:08:19,720
that thing and I guess they thought well in a fiddle goes wrong if his fault I did it and I did a

1589
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:25,080
lot of research and I went into the into the valley and so the difference from between

1590
02:08:25,080 --> 02:08:32,680
Mr. Thos and the kid to the kids lived in the valley the exact answer says all or had long genes

1591
02:08:32,680 --> 02:08:38,040
and they travel on the end they were always too long and they always had tones in their back pocket

1592
02:08:38,040 --> 02:08:45,320
things like I sort of did a lot of research and they truly fast at the back of classes watching

1593
02:08:45,320 --> 02:08:52,360
these guys in school and yeah well Jody was I was quite focused so I started to show the

1594
02:08:52,360 --> 02:08:58,360
foster cried in a movie and and through such a professional she told I would worry about that she's

1595
02:08:58,360 --> 02:09:05,000
done he was illiterating or whatever and I really wanted her to put cry for real and and I got

1596
02:09:05,000 --> 02:09:10,680
a two on after a couple of hours so that's how he started there was the first one that Rukhu

1597
02:09:10,680 --> 02:09:15,960
won together and I found an Indian flash down so I was going to turn down a couple of times which

1598
02:09:15,960 --> 02:09:22,280
was difficult to do because I wasn't doing any else you know I'd trying to get things awesome and

1599
02:09:22,280 --> 02:09:27,320
unsuccessfully and then I realized that they actually were going to make it so I did it thinking

1600
02:09:27,320 --> 02:09:32,280
that maybe I could only the dance if you look good you know because that's what it was just

1601
02:09:32,280 --> 02:09:38,920
sort of a little bit of a theory and I wanted to fairy tale of the way fairy story and me one wanted

1602
02:09:38,920 --> 02:09:44,520
to do a wet dance you know where the water slide or through the ground I knew the lift

1603
02:09:44,520 --> 02:09:51,560
or the you know the potential for comedy because the water would drench the audience and also I knew

1604
02:09:51,560 --> 02:09:57,240
that the girl would look good because the water on skin or was obscured but I had not the lightest

1605
02:09:57,240 --> 02:10:03,080
idea how I was going to do it and I remember the deck test from the studio were all sitting on

1606
02:10:03,080 --> 02:10:10,120
breaches rather and I was at the box and with this poor girl he's dancer and I was winding a

1607
02:10:10,120 --> 02:10:17,480
hose around to sort of indicate some sort of idea of what this wet dance was going to look like and

1608
02:10:17,480 --> 02:10:23,880
that that figure had gone like it's good but I sort of knew that I didn't know that it would be different

1609
02:10:23,880 --> 02:10:30,440
know if as I said it it's like you get the water flying around and obviously you know she

1610
02:10:30,440 --> 02:10:36,760
look good with the soap on a skin and set you but right to the last markings really I mean you

1611
02:10:36,760 --> 02:10:42,520
don't you know like like there's so much water we were all wide which was going to break a nank of something

1612
02:10:42,520 --> 02:10:49,880
you know we're going to pull all of that water on that I remember taking forever to backlight me

1613
02:10:49,880 --> 02:10:56,600
the water I was just doing everything wrong I was trying to do it again to white bread background

1614
02:10:56,600 --> 02:11:02,840
which is absurd because the obviously the um obviously the water wouldn't show up against the white

1615
02:11:02,840 --> 02:11:07,720
background so eventually I turned it around and I did it with a follows spot you know that the

1616
02:11:07,720 --> 02:11:16,120
comedian you stepped in in the movie and in more but you know in that club and I still to still

1617
02:11:16,120 --> 02:11:24,680
rely clean from many from a Bob Fossi young and he was very sweet Bob Fossi put some he came up to me

1618
02:11:24,680 --> 02:11:29,160
he sort of stopped me out and said I really like to movie which is applied to you know you know

1619
02:11:29,160 --> 02:11:35,640
I'm a little too easy I mean all that jazz was so marvelous marvelous really he's delighted I said

1620
02:11:35,640 --> 02:11:43,000
I said I still do lighting but he took from linear I did the follow spot you know that made her

1621
02:11:43,000 --> 02:11:49,960
her head you know be hair on the water jump out and he said I know and then I meant two

1622
02:11:49,960 --> 02:11:57,400
producers of the chorus line and they want to me to do that and I was sort of anxious not to get

1623
02:11:57,400 --> 02:12:02,680
pigeoned hold it do you use a cool you know which is put me to feel it actually and they were to

1624
02:12:02,680 --> 02:12:09,080
these two old guys are a marvellous and one of them said you said you've got an abundance right

1625
02:12:09,080 --> 02:12:14,440
kid I was like you got an abundance right and I didn't know what you meant but what he meant

1626
02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:19,240
was the button at the end of the scene you got to go out you know with a water you know I know

1627
02:12:19,240 --> 02:12:26,840
you got to go out with some sort of kick to get you into the next scene and so that was nice

1628
02:12:27,400 --> 02:12:33,000
but I was getting it up I was fascinated the movie like god and now and then I got to have decent

1629
02:12:33,000 --> 02:12:40,840
one but I'd never been the critic sir darling for two weeks before the movie came out they thought

1630
02:12:40,840 --> 02:12:46,840
it was going to be a disaster paramount I couldn't get held of anybody anybody I mean couldn't get

1631
02:12:46,840 --> 02:12:52,760
anybody on the firm uh as curious that you know they thought and they filled out a front of their

1632
02:12:52,760 --> 02:12:59,960
interest in the movie just before the movie came out but to their little man after that yeah I guess

1633
02:12:59,960 --> 02:13:08,840
I had net points and nobody ever get anything but no and because nobody wanted any points and

1634
02:13:08,840 --> 02:13:16,280
it's looked sweet um I knew I did okay so with scenes like the foot sexy and in flash dance we've

1635
02:13:16,280 --> 02:13:21,560
got all of them and I have weeks so many good scenes of fiddle traction you're kind of getting a

1636
02:13:21,560 --> 02:13:28,120
reputation at that point of being like an erotic director almost and then Jacob's lighter it feels like

1637
02:13:28,120 --> 02:13:34,440
a total left turn and so curious how you came to that project. What a wood sort of is a beat and

1638
02:13:34,440 --> 02:13:41,400
a bit going in the way is that you know with a movie like um fader traction you know which would

1639
02:13:41,400 --> 02:13:47,480
sort of let's really really I get I guess it's not good I mean unless it's tiny for the

1640
02:13:47,480 --> 02:13:54,680
affection is that everybody remembers you know that when they have sex a little you know that sink you know

1641
02:13:54,680 --> 02:14:00,840
that in the kitchen or whatever but people were memories even though it's only two minutes out of

1642
02:14:00,840 --> 02:14:07,480
a two hour movie that's it's curious that's what they remember so it's not like it was a massive

1643
02:14:07,480 --> 02:14:14,680
of officer really wasn't but that's as I say as seems to be what they remember the audience with us.

1644
02:14:14,680 --> 02:14:20,600
I was curious about the path of that film to the screen as far as an uptime outfraid of the traction

1645
02:14:20,600 --> 02:14:26,520
I see remember there was something about the ending was changed the house soon before it was released

1646
02:14:26,520 --> 02:14:32,920
was that changed quite a while I was six months before or something but we're all due

1647
02:14:32,920 --> 02:14:39,240
with about changing it in a because we like the idea of using a sort of even the man and butterfly

1648
02:14:39,240 --> 02:14:46,600
sort of imagery in which he kills a girl because Michael Douglas's think of prints around the knife

1649
02:14:46,600 --> 02:14:51,480
that he puts down on the ledge before he leaves you know after that fight you know she tries to kill

1650
02:14:51,480 --> 02:14:59,400
him but because the fingerprints are on the knife he gets the blame for her telling herself

1651
02:14:59,400 --> 02:15:07,880
she kills herself death ala mother and butterfly and so she incriminates him essentially and he goes

1652
02:15:07,880 --> 02:15:15,960
he is arrested and then asks your finds a tape where she tells she's going to kill herself

1653
02:15:15,960 --> 02:15:21,880
which sort of will actually morph but it felt you know it felt like the movie was working until

1654
02:15:21,880 --> 02:15:28,760
the last ten minutes and then it just felt a bit flat so in the end I'm you know people would

1655
02:15:28,760 --> 02:15:34,360
think oh they're trying to just weed all the more money out of it or whatever but it really wasn't

1656
02:15:34,360 --> 02:15:41,400
my kind of just a question of trying to get something that would better dramatically work better in terms of

1657
02:15:41,400 --> 02:15:47,160
off of keeping their attention really because it was just me and Stanley and on fairy land senior

1658
02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:53,080
we were just you know just they knew each other when it went to terms just go with acting just saying

1659
02:15:53,080 --> 02:15:58,520
to pity because it really played well up to the last ten minutes twenty minutes so maybe it was a

1660
02:15:58,520 --> 02:16:03,880
better ending that what we found of him sure the was in the end I think it was the best way to go

1661
02:16:04,360 --> 02:16:11,720
then was the last coal gas she didn't want to do it at all I'm issues it rage that the idea of changing

1662
02:16:11,720 --> 02:16:18,600
the ending and she was concerned about being a sort of one-note villainous if you like you know

1663
02:16:18,600 --> 02:16:26,200
somebody coming in a wielding a nice and threatening Michael you know and she thought as a sort of

1664
02:16:26,200 --> 02:16:35,000
cliche but what got me excited was the idea which I'd used in the Louvre the idea of of cut coming in

1665
02:16:35,000 --> 02:16:41,720
and said that coming in the wielding this this dagger over a head or whatever but coming in and it's just

1666
02:16:41,720 --> 02:16:49,320
sort of it hanging down her side I want a lot I want I liked was the idea that she was sort of

1667
02:16:49,320 --> 02:16:58,120
picking at her dressing down as like that dancing and it was going through the material and but because she was

1668
02:16:58,120 --> 02:17:05,480
in another world she didn't notice that she literally was was hurting a death of making herself

1669
02:17:05,480 --> 02:17:12,440
bleed so I thought what was really exciting about that was was the jeopardy of it the idea that this woman

1670
02:17:12,440 --> 02:17:18,360
was so creative that she didn't feel that this knife was coming into her and so I'd

1671
02:17:18,360 --> 02:17:26,360
imagine it's starting because it's the way of doing it in a non-create way I am so curious though how

1672
02:17:26,360 --> 02:17:32,680
Jacob's latter came to you well I spent a Tracy Jacobs through a lady through a journey

1673
02:17:32,680 --> 02:17:39,720
of the triage and I tell him getting such awful stuff reading awful awful scripts and I say what

1674
02:17:39,720 --> 02:17:46,200
have we read over the last 10 years that is special and hasn't been made and she said this what and I

1675
02:17:46,200 --> 02:17:56,360
read it and the story reminded me of that Ambro Ambro's beer short story incident at our

1676
02:17:56,360 --> 02:18:03,160
quick I mean it was just a stunning little little film I know of the whole thing happened in the

1677
02:18:03,160 --> 02:18:08,840
head while he was dropping you know while he was dropping for while he was being hanged and so I

1678
02:18:08,840 --> 02:18:16,920
love that premise you know but obviously this was much more complex and I think it's the movie that

1679
02:18:16,920 --> 02:18:22,600
you probably have to steep twice to sort of fully understand you know you're dealing with a

1680
02:18:22,600 --> 02:18:33,000
man who is remembering his marriage while he's dying in Vietnam and imagining a life

1681
02:18:33,000 --> 02:18:40,760
with Jesse after the war so that's a lot we know remember you know when the movie came out a lot of

1682
02:18:40,760 --> 02:18:47,240
critics were saying it was global to and I mean literally so you know it's something that others

1683
02:18:47,240 --> 02:18:55,160
I think it sort of grown as the year but the year really are the movie and I literally talked to

1684
02:18:55,160 --> 02:19:02,040
to Bruce about it for four years and we lived for the days I didn't imagine doing that now

1685
02:19:02,040 --> 02:19:09,880
I mean we didn't really talk about it about the planets talked about the story for a year just talked

1686
02:19:09,880 --> 02:19:17,160
and talked and talked and we disagreed really over some fundamental see what he saw it in sort of

1687
02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:24,040
jeep the funny expression I don't like it much it would be Judeo Christian terms you know he saw

1688
02:19:24,040 --> 02:19:35,800
hell and heaven in a traditional sense equally angels and demons and I would very anxious not to do

1689
02:19:35,800 --> 02:19:45,480
movie where but put it was familiar because the imagery was familiar they would act in fear or

1690
02:19:45,480 --> 02:19:53,240
manage if you knew the imagery if you'd seen the imagery before if you knew the devil was a guy with a sort of

1691
02:19:53,240 --> 02:20:03,320
a tail and a cleft who's and you know that the traditional idea of the devil equally if heaven is

1692
02:20:03,320 --> 02:20:10,520
an ice to just with Bruce I'm talking about the the liberal archie version of heaven clouds and

1693
02:20:10,520 --> 02:20:17,560
pillows and this may you know and she's of Jacob rather being a lad of the girls on forever no I'm

1694
02:20:17,560 --> 02:20:25,080
with marvelous tactics um so I wanted to root it well you know when we dealt with the you know

1695
02:20:25,080 --> 02:20:33,640
with the demons etc I wanted it to be flesh based I wanted you never to get a clear look at it

1696
02:20:33,640 --> 02:20:41,000
because when you see it with clarity there's no mystery and there's no no fear but when you can't

1697
02:20:41,000 --> 02:20:48,360
quite grab it you know I'm saying like I love the imagery of a frots it's bacon painting

1698
02:20:48,360 --> 02:20:56,760
does because there was fear and and blood and you thought of in unimaginable stuff going under going

1699
02:20:56,760 --> 02:21:04,360
on undemise those bloods that your imagination is filling in like if you could if you could see it all

1700
02:21:04,360 --> 02:21:11,720
then there's so out with the basics here it always no mystery there's no danger but it has to be

1701
02:21:11,720 --> 02:21:18,920
something that's fleeting and so that's where what I did I and that image that blood sort of

1702
02:21:19,560 --> 02:21:26,760
in the trees that I did with by turning over the camera for frames that's all frames and

1703
02:21:26,760 --> 02:21:33,240
getting the act of stimoo around so it's just a way around and then we started watching it but I

1704
02:21:33,240 --> 02:21:39,640
think it worked well because it was because it wasn't did you to done afterwards where you really

1705
02:21:39,640 --> 02:21:46,760
all with all with knowledge know that it's that it has been done later that it's an optical it's an

1706
02:21:46,760 --> 02:21:53,800
effect and I think when it's not it's not so much more powerful we didn't do it literally we did

1707
02:21:53,800 --> 02:22:02,040
know optical sex at all but what was almost funny was that when you had a demon or somebody

1708
02:22:02,040 --> 02:22:10,360
and it was blood you know shaking or whatever it would look ludicrous at a second and silly at

1709
02:22:10,360 --> 02:22:16,760
two-thirds of that but that part of the second it worked and you couldn't get a you still know I'm saying

1710
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:23,960
you couldn't get a fixed on it you saw what what the fuck was that and I mean it's it you know

1711
02:22:23,960 --> 02:22:29,960
also of the record with it I mean I have you seen no what I thought the nerve was you know I saw

1712
02:22:29,960 --> 02:22:35,880
it was terribly good for about an hour but when you saw that cabbage thing when it's clear

1713
02:22:36,440 --> 02:22:40,840
then somebody didn't work then order of a something and he'll you look you're looking at a cabbage you're

1714
02:22:40,840 --> 02:22:47,400
looking at a I don't want to you know I thought it's just you know you're me so I had you know I

1715
02:22:47,400 --> 02:22:52,680
hope I mean for particular something we'd had at a party a thing that had a stunt stunt van with

1716
02:22:52,680 --> 02:22:58,680
with like like words sort of I was called it for that solid a mind you know because it's

1717
02:22:58,680 --> 02:23:05,320
I'm that awful things that happen to them you know when they are willing to take him to the

1718
02:23:05,320 --> 02:23:11,720
other my during the sort in the fifth is that I think got six this early six this lady when they were

1719
02:23:11,720 --> 02:23:17,720
women who were pregnant took to a pit and terrible deformities and so I thought that was a more

1720
02:23:17,720 --> 02:23:24,840
interesting way to go then who are on the spot you know what we'd see before you know I use

1721
02:23:24,840 --> 02:23:31,880
imagery from the Joel Peter Wittkin you know one particular one was very startering and they

1722
02:23:31,880 --> 02:23:39,880
were a man without an in legs and a mask on over his head but what was so interesting was it was

1723
02:23:39,880 --> 02:23:46,440
a still picture mama's because the head was in was in a blur it was like it was in

1724
02:23:46,440 --> 02:23:53,400
in movement and it's in torment if you like I used that image and had had the head move

1725
02:23:53,400 --> 02:24:01,560
so it was as I say it was really trying to try never to think things totally but rather to have your

1726
02:24:01,560 --> 02:24:07,240
imagination fill them a bit of it because that's the best the imagination is always better than

1727
02:24:07,240 --> 02:24:11,960
anything that I could do yeah and I like the way they year introduce things was just the

1728
02:24:11,960 --> 02:24:19,000
homeless guy on the train with the tail that you can just barely get a glimpse of when it was

1729
02:24:19,000 --> 02:24:25,000
interesting because they brought to penis really and we started off what you saw in the movie

1730
02:24:25,400 --> 02:24:32,520
was it reversed it sort of called up the penis if you like now the way it was for real it was

1731
02:24:32,520 --> 02:24:37,720
who I don't know it worked but it something mechanical you know but it sort of shot out like an

1732
02:24:37,720 --> 02:24:44,760
erection and it was kind of funny to certain thing and but when we did it in reverse when we

1733
02:24:44,760 --> 02:24:50,200
shot it reversed it worked because it was first it you know it looked like this thing was

1734
02:24:50,200 --> 02:24:55,480
trying to hide away even though it looked like a penis in the end it was sort of veiny and but again you

1735
02:24:55,480 --> 02:25:01,080
couldn't quite get a handle on it it's fascinating with I mean I would block the else I had a

1736
02:25:01,080 --> 02:25:07,160
alim Marshall with the terrific producer because when things didn't work out would work out for me to

1737
02:25:07,160 --> 02:25:12,280
be able to you know I have a like I don't know a third of a day or something to watch out and do it again

1738
02:25:12,280 --> 02:25:18,920
you know like guys who are hanging out of the car you know nearly ran him down and that

1739
02:25:19,480 --> 02:25:26,920
kind of alley where he owned the bridge early on you know that and again that only works and very

1740
02:25:26,920 --> 02:25:34,120
very quickly you know if you were allowed time to take it in didn't work you always had to

1741
02:25:34,120 --> 02:25:40,840
fill the end with your imagination part of it. We're going to actually shoot the film. We shot it

1742
02:25:40,840 --> 02:25:49,080
not we shot it and we're just kind of thinking in Williamsburg we took an interior from

1743
02:25:49,720 --> 02:25:59,560
from Williamsburg which was just too small to shoot him and we had a two feet every way

1744
02:25:59,560 --> 02:26:07,880
making two feet wider and longer whatever and but he but it was exactly the stuff which I mean

1745
02:26:07,880 --> 02:26:13,640
in fact I think we took the props from the from the apartment it was just perfect you know that

1746
02:26:13,640 --> 02:26:21,720
and so he literally didn't stop from it but it was just in fact it was just too small to shoot him on the

1747
02:26:21,720 --> 02:26:27,320
on the occasion so we did it we did that and then the studio which I don't know I never liked shooting

1748
02:26:27,320 --> 02:26:33,800
the studio but we did that. I was just watching the movie funny enough when you ran out

1749
02:26:33,800 --> 02:26:39,880
I remember when he did that so the hospital and the guy ran and said they want to go home and he said

1750
02:26:39,880 --> 02:26:47,160
he knew our homes and he says he was dead and he said he said he didn't come out alive. The way he said

1751
02:26:47,160 --> 02:26:53,800
it was just heartbreaking and I remember sort of crying watching him doing you looking out and

1752
02:26:53,800 --> 02:27:00,680
seeing the operator was crying as well and I remember walking across the parking lot afterwards

1753
02:27:00,680 --> 02:27:07,400
with him and saying it's a team now you were really good and it was a long being you said

1754
02:27:07,400 --> 02:27:14,120
I know it's a fabulous feeling it we know when they and I was still there but they didn't have

1755
02:27:14,120 --> 02:27:20,680
a child themselves literally a chip toff of the better of them but they'll never have back you got it

1756
02:27:20,680 --> 02:27:26,440
you've got it in your movie and they'll never get it back and that's a marvelous feeling I think

1757
02:27:26,440 --> 02:27:31,400
there's another moment this while when he's lying in the bar after they pulled all of the

1758
02:27:31,400 --> 02:27:39,000
eyes saw over him and his eyes were blunt John and I didn't show and red and stuff and he really did

1759
02:27:39,000 --> 02:27:44,760
I mean look I did today everything out of it and it looked like it was in the out of body experience

1760
02:27:44,760 --> 02:27:51,240
of something he's extraordinary when he did with it really at the end of the movie there was way more

1761
02:27:51,240 --> 02:27:57,560
stuff but you know we tested it and the people were catatonic you know they were because

1762
02:27:57,560 --> 02:28:03,080
it offered him didn't understand it anyway a good the first time you see something like that you know

1763
02:28:03,080 --> 02:28:09,000
I think I see would be you know tucked one stem with what there was a whole sort of transformation

1764
02:28:09,000 --> 02:28:15,960
sequence one or two sequence this one was a sequence when he takes a kind of LSD and

1765
02:28:15,960 --> 02:28:21,880
and then if the monster comes through the through the feeling and it's quite good I know we've had

1766
02:28:21,880 --> 02:28:28,280
with an eye we used the eye this eye in giant and I think it worked quite well but we didn't know

1767
02:28:28,280 --> 02:28:32,200
what and leave only with all of it and then there's another one or there's another thing which

1768
02:28:32,200 --> 02:28:37,960
is interesting when the translation of Jesse you know when she really becomes essentially a demon

1769
02:28:37,960 --> 02:28:43,880
when she realized he realized that she's the devil if you like and there's a moment I remember

1770
02:28:44,680 --> 02:28:55,960
I used a belly dancer in a black velvet bag right on an obsidian old black so I showed it you know

1771
02:28:55,960 --> 02:29:04,040
for the longest time it was a dancer in a bag but there was about 20 frames I would say I remember

1772
02:29:04,040 --> 02:29:10,520
looking at and thinking what the fuck is that it became something else and I used that it

1773
02:29:10,520 --> 02:29:16,600
in it was in Marvers but again it's a matter of how long you use these things you know see you

1774
02:29:16,600 --> 02:29:24,680
the OSC just too little never too much talked about the conversations that you have with

1775
02:29:24,680 --> 02:29:30,840
Bruce Ruben I mentioned those got pretty intense after a while and he's a very spiritual man and

1776
02:29:30,840 --> 02:29:35,720
I'm not really I mean he's been you know he spent a lot of time in India I mean he was a

1777
02:29:35,720 --> 02:29:44,120
good partner when he was a dual real in self he's definitely lived with one or under one you know here

1778
02:29:44,120 --> 02:29:52,920
in some sort of a commune in I think in India and not particularly in I'm a nostalgic I guess you

1779
02:29:52,920 --> 02:29:59,160
know I didn't think of something else I think they're really so boring if it all stopped with a

1780
02:29:59,160 --> 02:30:05,320
kind of a full stop when we's perfect you know especially at my age now and so the more more of a

1781
02:30:05,320 --> 02:30:10,760
wife of it I know was then I did think the something I think a much too boring through it for us to be

1782
02:30:10,760 --> 02:30:18,120
nothing the world of somebody if that down with a sense of humor and said I'll make a two-cone

1783
02:30:18,120 --> 02:30:27,400
or make a giraffe or I'm they or I make a I'll make a seed horse be quite absurd to think that there

1784
02:30:27,400 --> 02:30:36,520
isn't some being that is creating the fee horse with a sense of humor you know I mean I mean with

1785
02:30:36,520 --> 02:30:45,640
wit I mean I don't believe that's just an accident so yeah you know we talk forever as I said

1786
02:30:45,640 --> 02:30:51,880
I didn't know when to say this with it but I'm imagining on the floor one end of a quite a big

1787
02:30:51,880 --> 02:30:55,560
world and he was the other end we were just sitting on the floor as well they need to get

1788
02:30:55,560 --> 02:31:04,120
the warm-eyed words as well yeah and you know I just talking and talking and then I saw stuff going around

1789
02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:10,920
if head and then how to describe like I suppose you'd say energy like sort of

1790
02:31:10,920 --> 02:31:17,400
curly lines or something you was something that was absolutely unexplatable and that's going to

1791
02:31:17,400 --> 02:31:24,520
make me sound instantly like a crackpot some of you for you but I don't know I'm a very pragmatic guy

1792
02:31:24,520 --> 02:31:30,840
and I told him and he said that a lot of stuff going on over you as well it was just sort of an energy

1793
02:31:30,840 --> 02:31:38,920
I mean it was but I remember being sort of fairly blown away by it he was particularly annoyed

1794
02:31:38,920 --> 02:31:45,960
about about the ending of an if going up instead I just might be idea that that heaven that's you

1795
02:31:45,960 --> 02:31:51,720
like is your home I just lump that as an idea you know that you want what's it going to some

1796
02:31:52,280 --> 02:31:58,840
of that thing you're sort of liberal artsy version of going up into the clouds or whatever I like it being

1797
02:31:58,840 --> 02:32:03,880
you know I like the fact that kid took him up must ask because the kid had done it before could

1798
02:32:03,880 --> 02:32:11,160
have been there before and sort of the kid took over I like that that he was rooted that it wasn't

1799
02:32:11,160 --> 02:32:17,960
you know something sort of mythical and then the plight of the whole movie really and it's been you

1800
02:32:17,960 --> 02:32:25,640
know interesting because I remember during the age for us it I remember people a couple of times

1801
02:32:25,640 --> 02:32:32,680
people contacting me and saying that they did movie had helped them with their partner with

1802
02:32:32,680 --> 02:32:39,640
died or whatever I guess that might be hard speech that Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel Daniel

1803
02:32:39,640 --> 02:32:47,640
may have made when he says that the you know the devil's it's feel that except them the devil's become

1804
02:32:47,640 --> 02:32:55,000
angels rather you know if you're resisting it them the devil's demons that was an interesting

1805
02:32:55,000 --> 02:33:01,240
street ducking I think he he was very important I think Daniel Daniel now I could take it what was

1806
02:33:01,240 --> 02:33:07,480
the actual shoot bike I remember it was in winter I think most of it now I remember in a walk

1807
02:33:07,480 --> 02:33:14,840
from on the windows freezing up creating sort of like that I said call something stuck in no man's land

1808
02:33:14,840 --> 02:33:21,560
where it was strange really but because having decided not to do any effects afterwards you know not to

1809
02:33:21,560 --> 02:33:30,120
add to anything you see I used that effect that that blurred effect before an assault film so I

1810
02:33:30,120 --> 02:33:35,800
taught him knew that that what to do with that although I hadn't used it quite the same way you know

1811
02:33:35,800 --> 02:33:41,320
that thing of getting the act of move around and sway around and then shoot while you're shooting

1812
02:33:41,320 --> 02:33:48,200
the forefrancing so it's essentially blurring and it looks really pretty obviously I mean you know

1813
02:33:48,200 --> 02:33:54,920
liking it's so important like like at that party you know I mean literally they were you know

1814
02:33:54,920 --> 02:34:00,840
they were birds were on a screen that somebody was waving around with a on a stick you know

1815
02:34:00,840 --> 02:34:07,560
on a thing I'm literally that they were real they were just paper birds on a on the stick because it was

1816
02:34:07,560 --> 02:34:14,200
the delighting was intimate to mitten you know that what's wrong with spoken like again you couldn't

1817
02:34:14,200 --> 02:34:19,560
feel clearly and say you've got away with it you know now you've got away with that tail thing

1818
02:34:19,560 --> 02:34:25,720
between which was which was literally I would say hilarious when we're doing it and you know I mean

1819
02:34:26,760 --> 02:34:33,160
the home thing and our mouth you know in the last bit obviously is that you know it was like a mask

1820
02:34:33,160 --> 02:34:38,600
of her you know it was a model of and then you just ran the thing up through it out of a mouth but

1821
02:34:38,600 --> 02:34:44,840
again it's so quick that you don't take it's not her and she wants to go well we cast kept forever

1822
02:34:44,840 --> 02:34:51,160
we saw her early on and saw she was really good and then we went and the stream was always all

1823
02:34:51,160 --> 02:34:58,920
everybody over and then we kept on going back to her she died and said she died very young and why I've

1824
02:34:58,920 --> 02:35:04,920
got more I was proud of the Vietnam footage I think not what brought a well you shut that down in

1825
02:35:04,920 --> 02:35:09,800
Puerto Rico is that right everybody who's being deployed or lived in Puerto Rico knows that

1826
02:35:09,800 --> 02:35:18,120
this book but because the sound of three folds I guess you don't get in the Vietnam when Jacob's

1827
02:35:18,120 --> 02:35:24,840
letter comes out how is it received with parliament a lot of people said it was published was golde

1828
02:35:24,840 --> 02:35:33,080
cube and they were in rage by the ending annoyed by the ending similar I mean I mean I mean I'm

1829
02:35:33,080 --> 02:35:39,640
sort of that draining a bit I mean it was all vast but I do think it's a movie that you need to be twice

1830
02:35:39,640 --> 02:35:46,200
honestly you know because this three time sequences I guess this is very or more you know what

1831
02:35:46,200 --> 02:35:53,800
it would would be the deaths and the dying and Vietnam and the imagined life would get the afterwards

1832
02:35:53,800 --> 02:36:01,480
and the remember life of him and and Gaben his it's why I also wonder what I should have left

1833
02:36:01,480 --> 02:36:06,600
all of the translation stuff and at the end but that thought it was quite I thought the shooting

1834
02:36:06,600 --> 02:36:12,680
of it was quite interesting the whole you know when he has the B LSD or whatever that it was

1835
02:36:13,400 --> 02:36:19,000
you know when he's with the that the farms they said I think that's the good good sequence you know when

1836
02:36:19,000 --> 02:36:25,160
the stuff comes through there the sequence run out but I said you know because of the trouble

1837
02:36:25,160 --> 02:36:31,480
with understanding of picture I think maybe maybe it was good to have left it out on and

1838
02:36:31,480 --> 02:36:39,000
because they the origin audiences would come down Catholic or other than nonstand remember my

1839
02:36:39,000 --> 02:36:44,840
co-star who is this sweet and sweet man he would produce that and we were going on how I mean

1840
02:36:44,840 --> 02:36:49,880
and how I mean about and how I'm about how I'm trying to know of Jesse which I liked

1841
02:36:49,880 --> 02:36:58,520
you know before he goes up there's with with with Gabe I remember him saying I'll just leave

1842
02:36:58,520 --> 02:37:04,760
him and he said he can back down on to down there anyway and I think I probably should have done

1843
02:37:04,760 --> 02:37:12,120
you know if I get the word for the graph of the hell doing it if come by the with a child like

1844
02:37:12,120 --> 02:37:19,480
he's lying with a child on on a bed you know I forgot famous famous picture and I remember

1845
02:37:19,480 --> 02:37:27,480
the copy exactly we'd drum his wife you know in the sort of flashback sequence we were lucky to have

1846
02:37:27,480 --> 02:37:34,440
a broken as name home alone kid McCoy Colkan we won a lot to me he's just me we did it

1847
02:37:34,440 --> 02:37:41,880
for and without a banana that the father was very used not an easy man to deal with how did they even

1848
02:37:41,880 --> 02:37:48,520
train him market a film like this what he marked it as a horror movie which is probably a

1849
02:37:48,520 --> 02:37:53,240
mistake mind you I don't quite know how they would would marked it you know you know I think

1850
02:37:53,240 --> 02:37:58,680
they may be they should gone a little more delicate they got so it's good to get to a three

1851
02:37:58,680 --> 02:38:04,680
click like it I don't know what I think it's the same thing I was thinking but to get some little

1852
02:38:04,680 --> 02:38:09,720
champion if he'd need to get that so it was a group with a move like that I think that's a group

1853
02:38:09,720 --> 02:38:19,560
so I thought I saw a horror hospital thing worked well we we as I think the real hospital

1854
02:38:19,560 --> 02:38:24,200
in stacking island I think you did most of it then you probably did it all there and those

1855
02:38:24,200 --> 02:38:32,520
civil guys you know that all those things on the it was the nights working you'd been good

1856
02:38:32,520 --> 02:38:37,480
different things but he's well to be at it and the guy you know the guy who was on the

1857
02:38:37,480 --> 02:38:44,840
civil the bad guy was only the bad guy who didn't have any practice it was beautiful kid again

1858
02:38:44,840 --> 02:38:52,040
he was just thrilled to be in the movie and I said nice to be there but just people talk a lot about

1859
02:38:52,040 --> 02:39:00,840
the wheels sticking on the journey you know put that out of barrels we made it so really they wasn't

1860
02:39:00,840 --> 02:39:08,360
hitting the ground properly so that sort of gave the gun a personality a made it a bit crazed

1861
02:39:08,360 --> 02:39:16,440
suddenly I mean I love layers like that you know when you add something that's also surprising

1862
02:39:16,440 --> 02:39:24,600
on strange makes a scene more interesting I had I had an old guy with a little dressed in wags

1863
02:39:24,600 --> 02:39:30,680
but I was who was done playing with a flesh his huge fish but we're sort of leaping around

1864
02:39:30,680 --> 02:39:36,520
on the floor I was thinking I shouldn't put that in and a martial was a marvelous producer that said

1865
02:39:36,520 --> 02:39:41,560
but because it already was instilling with the movie being called that you know when when he had

1866
02:39:41,560 --> 02:39:50,200
when the demons say I'm the car looks stupid and then he would work out how I could do it again

1867
02:39:50,200 --> 02:39:56,360
just to you know half a day or something I'm curious about the de-pointer how that came to be I just

1868
02:39:56,360 --> 02:40:02,840
rewatch out when as well well that's you know he's a pyramo the I mean because it was it was

1869
02:40:02,840 --> 02:40:11,560
Patricia Hindness and the the plot of deep water her deep water was was a man who was disenchanted with

1870
02:40:11,560 --> 02:40:18,920
his wife could through his fucking around and to refuge in his with his daughter we're dored but there was

1871
02:40:18,920 --> 02:40:27,480
no real sexual involvement at all between them so in the in the end her story was about somebody

1872
02:40:27,480 --> 02:40:33,960
getting more and more pissed off for their wife because getting embarrassed my her and then he bounced

1873
02:40:33,960 --> 02:40:41,000
her off at the end he killed her and I thought and he's got a rough and built off with the police

1874
02:40:41,000 --> 02:40:47,000
and I thought it was more interesting or more interesting but what I wanted to do was to get us

1875
02:40:47,000 --> 02:40:55,240
fans that there was a kind of complizically between the two a weird and and so that's what I tried

1876
02:40:55,240 --> 02:41:01,000
to do that and get a sense that she was half doing it for his benefit and that Janice jealousy was its

1877
02:41:01,000 --> 02:41:08,200
fighting to him but obviously disruptures in the end and and and and it is but I've always been

1878
02:41:08,200 --> 02:41:12,440
you know I've done a lot of the words of jealousy I think sister noob shit so then you know that's

1879
02:41:12,440 --> 02:41:21,080
what I tried to do I mean I don't want to get I mean flat darlin on the sister major I mean I mean

1880
02:41:21,080 --> 02:41:27,320
it wasn't the best experience in my life I'll go say not to the understatement on the year but what I

1881
02:41:27,320 --> 02:41:33,640
didn't want to what he would guess for to do and maybe it didn't want to do it I didn't want to have

1882
02:41:33,640 --> 02:41:43,480
a reason why the this relationship was as it was they wanted to see where it was playing that said

1883
02:41:43,480 --> 02:41:48,520
okay you can you can have your lovers you could do what fucking one but in the end you're going

1884
02:41:48,520 --> 02:41:56,280
to come back to me and and and I'm waking so essentially he was letting her do it now I don't

1885
02:41:56,280 --> 02:42:02,120
think of the drama and then and I I'm thought it was more interesting and I don't know say I

1886
02:42:02,120 --> 02:42:07,320
know what I don't know but I thought it was more interesting to just throw the audience into the middle

1887
02:42:07,320 --> 02:42:14,600
and and say get on with that and understand this is strange relationship but it was a choice

1888
02:42:15,320 --> 02:42:23,000
you know I got it now but now you know there's also things seen through I took out

1889
02:42:23,000 --> 02:42:28,200
think maybe I should have left in and then the audience wrote the prog Darple saw

1890
02:42:28,200 --> 02:42:35,160
of on a critics mostly thought the snail's in sort of sexual terms they thought it was

1891
02:42:35,160 --> 02:42:40,360
you know these briny things of she men that you know I'm saying that with that sort of take on it

1892
02:42:40,360 --> 02:42:46,840
and it was a lot of that in the book anyway and I had a scene in where the kids you know he left

1893
02:42:46,840 --> 02:42:53,720
to hold one of these little one you know and again I mean people want to me to take the snail

1894
02:42:53,720 --> 02:43:00,040
out might I thought that they were interesting just because it's strange and why shouldn't he be

1895
02:43:00,040 --> 02:43:06,120
fascinated by snail I think they're not but what do you recommend these days? Well I said this

1896
02:43:06,120 --> 02:43:14,440
a thought I'd do like called one neck which is about a serial killer coming to a path in the Hamilton's

1897
02:43:14,440 --> 02:43:20,040
and it's quite good it should be on the news if I do it right the audience should be watching it

1898
02:43:20,040 --> 02:43:26,760
in a state of complete hysteria sort of like uncut gems you know which is one of my favorite

1899
02:43:26,760 --> 02:43:32,920
you have twenty years that feeling of very funny movie but equally you're you're nothing

1900
02:43:32,920 --> 02:43:38,520
over your children the whole time to him you know that we're faster than skin you know there's a lot of

1901
02:43:38,520 --> 02:43:44,200
tension in it and I like that you know I like the tension in that in reservoir doves you know when

1902
02:43:44,200 --> 02:43:49,800
the guy's dancing around you know he's gonna lock that man's ear off and the off feeling is

1903
02:43:49,800 --> 02:43:56,680
hysterical sign for one but it's also gas-free as well so I've got to see that somehow that's

1904
02:43:56,680 --> 02:44:05,080
the mixed deal of the say hall that and the humor I've talked to do really let he did it beautifully

1905
02:44:05,080 --> 02:44:11,880
selling the animals down the well it's voicing the yon that to some very clever going back to

1906
02:44:11,880 --> 02:44:18,200
reading interviews with you from nineties and earlier and later I remember back in

1907
02:44:18,200 --> 02:44:25,960
at a guest of a star log in nineteen ninety when they were interviewing you about jica platter you said

1908
02:44:25,960 --> 02:44:32,200
oh I want to do milita and then there was a serial color movie is this the same serial color movie?

1909
02:44:32,200 --> 02:44:38,040
well it probably is yeah it goes back a long way I'm also the movie co-founder of so I mean

1910
02:44:38,040 --> 02:44:43,880
desperate to do and I may have made out today it's welcome moon and nothing that's just sort of

1911
02:44:43,880 --> 02:44:50,920
a interracial though I'm not story would over the race march as a background in the winter

1912
02:44:50,920 --> 02:44:57,080
she means she can't go it's it's very strong but I don't know I need it's not to be

1913
02:44:57,080 --> 02:45:03,240
out of the fake clothes to drink with the niana or see well mr. wine I can't thank you enough for

1914
02:45:03,240 --> 02:45:07,880
the time that we spent together really appreciate this if you need stop just ring me out I'm

1915
02:45:07,880 --> 02:45:19,720
going to do it I'm going to give that issue to you brother I am first no relationship please complicated

1916
02:45:19,720 --> 02:45:26,840
it was all my fault

1917
02:45:30,840 --> 02:45:41,320
this is brother I've explained it for over a year but I'm never saw his body now I have a situation

1918
02:45:41,320 --> 02:45:49,640
I know it sounds crazy he's at my house right now with Sam I just can't believe you here

1919
02:45:49,640 --> 02:45:57,640
we thought you were dead yeah why you were we got the perfect life you're down to be

1920
02:45:59,640 --> 02:46:13,800
as as I keep bleeding I got it I'm brother's not in a good way I don't know what he got

1921
02:46:13,800 --> 02:46:17,240
himself mixed up it

1922
02:46:17,240 --> 02:46:20,920
okay there's a different

1923
02:46:25,160 --> 02:46:32,600
I think something for how I look as I know are you certain it's him

1924
02:46:32,600 --> 02:46:43,080
take off I'm hearing things I'm seeing things faces

1925
02:46:43,080 --> 02:46:50,040
what are you doing demons they are coming after me because of us

1926
02:46:50,040 --> 02:46:57,880
Jake what is going on do you think I'm making this up you only think the birds and how they're all

1927
02:46:57,880 --> 02:47:10,280
in on it it was the part of yourself the prefuses to let go you will see that will stay

1928
02:47:10,280 --> 02:47:20,360
in your life alright we are back and we're talking about Jacob's ladder and

1929
02:47:20,360 --> 02:47:27,160
let me say this first this is like I was saying earlier one of many I don't know that I'm dead

1930
02:47:27,160 --> 02:47:33,080
type movies but this is also like this weird moment of time when

1931
02:47:33,080 --> 02:47:39,240
spiritualism was back at the movies like in 1989 you had always this year you had

1932
02:47:39,240 --> 02:47:45,240
mentioned ghost but you also had Joel Schumerke's flatliners in 1990 as well so it was like a

1933
02:47:45,240 --> 02:47:51,800
a really big time for the afterlife in american movies which was kind of an odd thing

1934
02:47:51,800 --> 02:47:56,840
and we just we go through those phases and everything and I don't know what what it was in the air in

1935
02:47:56,840 --> 02:48:02,360
1990 where it was like okay now we're going to talk about the afterlife and what can happen because

1936
02:48:02,360 --> 02:48:08,200
I think Jacob's ladder 1990 would be a really good double feature with flatliners because it has that

1937
02:48:08,200 --> 02:48:15,720
same nightmareish quality to it wow I totally forgot that he not the same year yeah and we both also have

1938
02:48:15,720 --> 02:48:23,320
like bad recent remakes oh yeah you're right I forgot about the remake of flatliners too I didn't

1939
02:48:23,320 --> 02:48:29,240
watch that one I didn't even know that there was a remake of Jacob's ladder until I started to do the

1940
02:48:29,240 --> 02:48:33,320
research and I was just like oh no this just has to be called Jacob's ladder because there's been a few

1941
02:48:33,320 --> 02:48:41,320
movies that are called Jacob's ladder that aren't you know this story but no 2019 there was a remake that

1942
02:48:41,320 --> 02:48:48,920
came out that apparently it premiered on dish network so it didn't get a theatrical release as far

1943
02:48:48,920 --> 02:48:55,640
as I know and nor should it I wanted to cut this movie some slack I wanted to like it but it felt like

1944
02:48:55,640 --> 02:49:05,880
they just kept making bad decisions and just like giving Jacob a brother and it had while Samantha and then

1945
02:49:05,880 --> 02:49:15,480
Annie who also plays an angel so Annie angel but it was tough man I think Steven you said that you

1946
02:49:15,480 --> 02:49:21,960
watch in like 15 minute increments just because it was so hard to get through yeah I had to watch it

1947
02:49:21,960 --> 02:49:28,040
15 minute tell like again I want to be negative towards movies because they're very difficult to make it but

1948
02:49:28,040 --> 02:49:32,360
it's like again like Mike was saying it's like they're just these movies sometimes I get

1949
02:49:32,360 --> 02:49:38,040
you made you're just like I get while you'll remake some movies I totally get it and like you know for

1950
02:49:38,040 --> 02:49:42,440
instance when I heard the remake an evil dead like how you gonna do that and then I saw a Q&A with the

1951
02:49:42,440 --> 02:49:47,720
director afterwards he was like yo Sam Raymy gave up because Sam Raymy was at his height he gave them

1952
02:49:47,720 --> 02:49:54,040
all this time to make the movie and gave them extra time to make the effects work and then when you watch the

1953
02:49:54,040 --> 02:49:59,880
movie you're like wow this is a good I think it's a great remake because Sam Raymy put care into

1954
02:49:59,880 --> 02:50:05,560
remaking that movie and gave them everything you know and it worked but when I see like for instance

1955
02:50:05,560 --> 02:50:12,040
martyrs remake was on my 2B and I decided to watch like 20 minutes of it to remake because I was curious

1956
02:50:12,040 --> 02:50:16,840
and again like within 20 minutes they started explaining things and in my mind I'm like

1957
02:50:16,840 --> 02:50:23,480
who is this movie made for is it like for some 16-year-old girl or one or 16-year-old kid to like

1958
02:50:23,480 --> 02:50:28,360
stumble across for awesome be like wow this is great but I know in the remake because like I don't get

1959
02:50:28,360 --> 02:50:34,200
why certain movies get re- like a movie like this get remade and I looked it up and it got announced in

1960
02:50:34,200 --> 02:50:42,280
2013 I had no idea this this really because coming out yeah and yeah so 2013 this was announced and

1961
02:50:43,320 --> 02:50:48,040
yeah and yeah when I watched it I could only handle it a little at a time and I think it was from that

1962
02:50:48,040 --> 02:50:55,320
opening sequence immediately knew I was like oh no feel bad because I like the lead actor he was in

1963
02:50:55,320 --> 02:51:01,720
this movie I saw in HBO where he goes to Vegas and she's on his girlfriend with Illarie Swank and then

1964
02:51:01,720 --> 02:51:06,440
she ends up being a cop that fucks with his life and he was awesome in that movie I forgot what

1965
02:51:06,440 --> 02:51:11,320
it was called but I like I enjoyed it it was like a nice yeah it was pretty cool he's a cool actor

1966
02:51:11,320 --> 02:51:17,240
I like him and I was just I just felt bad for him because this movie has no sadness fear that's the

1967
02:51:17,240 --> 02:51:24,600
problem it just doesn't that's no at when you're making a remake of movie that's such you know it was

1968
02:51:24,600 --> 02:51:31,400
so visceral you know you could smell the movie you know you feel kind of grimy at times watching that

1969
02:51:31,400 --> 02:51:37,320
Jacob's ladder but this one just it couldn't it didn't capture that and I had more of a David Lynch

1970
02:51:37,880 --> 02:51:45,800
lost highway, Mohon Drive, type twist versus Jacob's ladder twist the bat hub scene it's not even

1971
02:51:45,800 --> 02:51:51,320
Jacob going the bat hub it was like inputting his brother in the bat hub and I was like well that's

1972
02:51:51,320 --> 02:51:57,400
the thing is that so sorry first of it was Afghanistan it wasn't Iraq so my bat on that another

1973
02:51:57,400 --> 02:52:03,400
Middle Eastern country that the US has no right to be in anyway they split Jacob basically into two

1974
02:52:03,400 --> 02:52:09,560
characters they split him into Jacob and Isaac and so it's him and his brother and yeah his brother comes

1975
02:52:09,560 --> 02:52:15,320
in and you're just like oh no his brother supposed to be dead and so it's like all right this is brother

1976
02:52:15,320 --> 02:52:24,200
dead oh no maybe Jacob's dead and maybe because I want to say that at one point you find out that Isaac has

1977
02:52:24,200 --> 02:52:31,800
Mary Jacob's girlfriend maybe they would never wear Mary maybe Jacob never got in the picture and

1978
02:52:31,800 --> 02:52:37,240
all maybe he was just jealous of his brother they all were thought I'm now trying to overthink it to make it

1979
02:52:37,240 --> 02:52:42,360
make sense yeah we too because I wanted to like it also and I don't like yeah because we don't know what

1980
02:52:42,360 --> 02:52:47,160
happened behind the scenes we don't know what you know at least they were trying to do something different and I

1981
02:52:47,160 --> 02:52:52,600
kind of the guy they hired for the brother you know I can give him some props to and his performance

1982
02:52:52,600 --> 02:52:57,960
because he was unsettling but it just overall it just was just for me it didn't it didn't work

1983
02:52:57,960 --> 02:53:03,480
especially the ending and there I don't know I feel bad you know because I want to be bad on

1984
02:53:03,480 --> 02:53:08,840
somebody was a roevis can be bad it's part of life yeah you're right I just tiptoe around it

1985
02:53:08,840 --> 02:53:13,880
put the food around the fact that movies can be can be terrible yeah like I put it up with the

1986
02:53:13,880 --> 02:53:18,600
martyrs remake in a way of just being like what you know like who is this aimed for is it just

1987
02:53:18,600 --> 02:53:24,280
using the name to make money from it because you know I don't know it was it was it was tough

1988
02:53:24,280 --> 02:53:30,600
you made make a few extra shackles for all it I'm sure he must have well there's that that yeah did you

1989
02:53:30,600 --> 02:53:37,880
sit through it in one screening I mean one sit through Mike I watched the first maybe half hour of it

1990
02:53:37,880 --> 02:53:44,920
and then I turned it off and then I ended up going back and I kind of was watching it at work so not

1991
02:53:44,920 --> 02:53:49,880
giving my full brain power to it and just like kind of having it out of the corner my eye and just going

1992
02:53:49,880 --> 02:53:55,960
wait what are they doing out here and yeah it was I mean they were occasionally they were little things

1993
02:53:55,960 --> 02:54:00,760
or I was like oh well that was a little nice nod to the original but it was like do you want to be

1994
02:54:00,760 --> 02:54:06,360
the original do you want to be a brand new thing and they really couldn't decide whether they wanted to

1995
02:54:06,360 --> 02:54:12,040
stick with the original script if they just wanted to move past it and do something completely different

1996
02:54:12,040 --> 02:54:16,920
and I think you would have been better off to do something completely different in fact I think

1997
02:54:16,920 --> 02:54:21,960
even if they just didn't call this Jacob's latter it might have been something better for them because it's

1998
02:54:21,960 --> 02:54:29,400
so not related to the Tim Robbins movie Jerry's step letter I absolutely agree if it was called

1999
02:54:29,400 --> 02:54:34,680
something different because it was because they did the train scene like later in the movie but instead

2000
02:54:34,680 --> 02:54:40,680
of a tale the guy had messed up feet his feet were weird like he had swords in the bottom of his feet

2001
02:54:40,680 --> 02:54:46,680
and they didn't do the dance it was like wow they didn't do the classic dancing with the devil scene

2002
02:54:47,160 --> 02:54:53,320
but what what they did was it had Jake having sex with the devil that I think because yeah because

2003
02:54:53,320 --> 02:54:57,800
in which was weird towards the ending I guess that was their interpretation of it but

2004
02:54:57,800 --> 02:55:03,160
well if Jesse is the devil then he had said Tim Robbins had sex with her too but that's up to

2005
02:55:03,160 --> 02:55:09,160
interpretation yeah yeah you get those neat moments like when you see Jesse with the old black

2006
02:55:09,160 --> 02:55:13,800
icon tag type of thing going on or she's like whoa go on and really just again just like for

2007
02:55:13,800 --> 02:55:19,480
quick second you see the flash out it's like okay we don't need to linger on this kind of stuff

2008
02:55:19,480 --> 02:55:25,800
Jacob's latter too is just like what you said earlier we had this 1980s war boom and you know

2009
02:55:25,800 --> 02:55:31,960
platoon you know I think when platoon came out it kind of for me being a kid back then and made like

2010
02:55:31,960 --> 02:55:36,920
my dad watched all these war movies I didn't care about it when platoon came out it kind of made

2011
02:55:36,920 --> 02:55:42,040
war movies mainstream I felt like I wanted to watch it because Charlie sheen and it had these

2012
02:55:42,040 --> 02:55:47,160
cool people in it and then and then you know yet good morning Vietnam and four-middle jacket and

2013
02:55:47,160 --> 02:55:54,280
hamburger hill all coming out in 1987 and then Michael Dugacov platoon leader in 88 casualties of war

2014
02:55:54,280 --> 02:55:59,560
and then it's interesting is that casualties of war in 89 what does this war doing to people

2015
02:55:59,560 --> 02:56:05,720
and then you have Jacob's latter that caps this whole Vietnam boom where it just gets even more into it

2016
02:56:05,720 --> 02:56:10,360
it's interesting how we start from platoon and it kind of ends with Jacob's latter I don't know

2017
02:56:10,360 --> 02:56:16,600
so like when it came out it kind of because we were so had all these Vietnam movies it was like also this

2018
02:56:16,600 --> 02:56:23,800
nice I don't know it's just like you kind of watch this genre you know kind of morph and then

2019
02:56:23,800 --> 02:56:30,520
end with Jacob's latter what genre is Jacob's latter I guess ultimately you call it a horror film but

2020
02:56:30,520 --> 02:56:37,400
there's political thriller there's you know some eroticism going on there's you know spiritualism

2021
02:56:37,400 --> 02:56:43,800
there's just so many different aspects to this and then the question was two back in 1990 how the

2022
02:56:43,800 --> 02:56:47,880
hell are they going to market this thing are they going to market it as a street horror film where

2023
02:56:47,880 --> 02:56:54,040
people that are expecting like a you know Friday the 13th Jason Freddy type of thing come in here and

2024
02:56:54,040 --> 02:56:58,520
they're just like well this isn't more you know like what is your brand of horror this to me is much

2025
02:56:58,520 --> 02:57:02,840
more of that horror of like you know your repulsion or something where it's just like okay

2026
02:57:03,400 --> 02:57:09,800
what you're seeing isn't real and now you have to figure out what really is going on absolutely and I am

2027
02:57:09,800 --> 02:57:16,040
obsessed with box office so I was kind of curious how it opened and it actually opened that number one

2028
02:57:16,040 --> 02:57:23,400
when it first came out it made seven million second place was civil rivally civiling rivalry with

2029
02:57:23,400 --> 02:57:29,640
that actress has just passed away from cheers I forgot sorry I'm um spacing on a name if you're

2030
02:57:29,640 --> 02:57:36,600
so old christie yes and then third place was ghost which already made 180 million at that point

2031
02:57:36,600 --> 02:57:42,840
right palace was number four and marked for death was number five so it was number one when it came out

2032
02:57:42,840 --> 02:57:48,760
and then you talking about horror next week child's play two bumped it out of first place so I guess

2033
02:57:48,760 --> 02:57:55,640
people wanted more lighthearted horror film that'd be stabby fab yeah more focus this is like you know

2034
02:57:55,640 --> 02:58:02,040
like I said I think I feel like this is a I mean I think this feels like a 70s movie that we got like 10

2035
02:58:02,040 --> 02:58:08,840
years later so I don't think the new audience being trained with nice 80s movies wasn't you know like this was

2036
02:58:08,840 --> 02:58:15,480
uh this was a you know it's was pretty you know 70s audiences were used to such hardcore endings and stuff

2037
02:58:15,480 --> 02:58:21,640
like this I don't think maybe the audience in 1990 wasn't expecting this I have a really great story

2038
02:58:21,640 --> 02:58:26,680
that I was just telling my I found on the other day that I'm about to do a podcast about Jacob's ladder

2039
02:58:26,680 --> 02:58:31,240
and he's like I'm reading it he's like yeah that was Robin Lave was a licking on all of the

2040
02:58:31,240 --> 02:58:37,640
things and something else so he was thinking about Jacob the liar you know there's a movie Jacob the

2041
02:58:37,640 --> 02:58:43,320
liar so similar title but then he started thinking a name he went back but he said it was like

2042
02:58:43,320 --> 02:58:48,040
wait but isn't it a movie with something spiritual in it but something about the Holocaust so he

2043
02:58:48,040 --> 02:58:55,400
started going back and he realized that like 20 years ago he was working at a video store in Jerusalem

2044
02:58:55,400 --> 02:59:01,800
and people like teachers used to comment and like rent a movie to show on like Holocaust

2045
02:59:01,800 --> 02:59:09,320
members day and apparently he just realized that 20 years ago he tried to recommend Jacob the liar

2046
02:59:09,320 --> 02:59:15,400
to someone but he didn't Jacob the ladder instead oh god so it's how fucking many years ago some

2047
02:59:15,400 --> 02:59:23,480
poor classroom full of kids who were sitting down to watch Holocaust movie at five minutes into it it was

2048
02:59:23,480 --> 02:59:30,440
a kid was a full metal jacket meets meets David Private Ryan meets the Thekla Jace on Africa shit

2049
02:59:30,440 --> 02:59:36,680
oh my god imagine so that's my friend who's on that's his story I'm glad that you guys

2050
02:59:36,680 --> 02:59:43,000
brought up a current South Creek bridge as well apparently both Bruce Joel Ruben and Adrian Lyme were

2051
02:59:43,000 --> 02:59:49,240
familiar with that and they both kind of like met on even ground when it came to that particular movie or

2052
02:59:49,240 --> 02:59:56,440
that particular story but I didn't realize that it had been it was done by

2053
02:59:56,440 --> 03:00:04,440
one to say there was a movie version of it in like 1919 or something it was like really super early

2054
03:00:04,440 --> 03:00:12,840
and then there was oh sorry it was it was King Vittor and it was 1929 so not 1919 10 years after that

2055
03:00:12,840 --> 03:00:20,680
and then it would be done again as a short in 62 and that's the version I'm very familiar with they

2056
03:00:20,680 --> 03:00:26,520
actually showed speaking of showing things in class they actually showed us a current South Creek bridge

2057
03:00:26,520 --> 03:00:31,960
in high school I guess because we're studying American literature and we're talking about

2058
03:00:31,960 --> 03:00:40,120
Ambrose Bears and so this is like one of Bears's most famous stories it was a French film but no dialogue

2059
03:00:40,120 --> 03:00:47,720
so it's so an ended up picking it up and they kind of put wrappers with Rod Sirling at the beginning

2060
03:00:47,720 --> 03:00:54,360
and then they turned into Twilight Zone episode and so I think that so many people are familiar with

2061
03:00:54,360 --> 03:01:00,440
this particular story via that Twilight Zone episode. I had no idea about this at all it wasn't

2062
03:01:00,440 --> 03:01:05,080
until I started looking into it and for this episode where I kept seeing that pop up and then I

2063
03:01:05,080 --> 03:01:11,640
watched the short I found it online and it was yeah yeah I knew the ending unfortunately but

2064
03:01:11,640 --> 03:01:16,360
totally does feel like something they'd show to a class in the 80s pull out the projector string

2065
03:01:16,360 --> 03:01:22,040
the film because I watched some weird shorts too and class I wish I remembered when it was really

2066
03:01:22,040 --> 03:01:26,360
couple of them were pretty disturbing you know and I was like kind of shocked by them

2067
03:01:26,360 --> 03:01:31,720
like I remember one I watched where does this guy hanging out with his dying soldier for like

2068
03:01:31,720 --> 03:01:36,920
10 minutes of the short and then at the ending he finally kills the guy and then right when he stands

2069
03:01:36,920 --> 03:01:43,400
up there is two soldiers coming up to ridge with something to carry him away. They showed some and I

2070
03:01:43,400 --> 03:01:49,240
had one substitute teacher literally like if he had us for a week he just thrown a movie like one time

2071
03:01:49,240 --> 03:01:54,600
he threw a apocalypse now on and and Roman Planckis make bath which kind of blew my mind and

2072
03:01:54,600 --> 03:02:02,760
there is seen it before and go at it. They used to show the wave in schools but they stopped

2073
03:02:02,760 --> 03:02:06,200
do you know about the wave? No what is I said? No they'll buy it?

2074
03:02:06,200 --> 03:02:12,200
That Peter weir movie? No it's a movie. That's the last story.

2075
03:02:12,200 --> 03:02:15,960
That's the story. Sorry. It's a but it's a famous real-life thing that was made

2076
03:02:15,960 --> 03:02:22,520
into a movie later let me see who directed it and Alexander grabs off. I don't know

2077
03:02:22,520 --> 03:02:27,800
Bruce Davis I'm a bit about this charismatic teacher who it really happened in real life.

2078
03:02:27,800 --> 03:02:32,280
I don't know if I should spoil the ending for you now because the whole point of the

2079
03:02:32,280 --> 03:02:38,520
there has a see the ending of the spell. He starts sort of a cult following with his students. He

2080
03:02:38,520 --> 03:02:43,560
tells them about this great new wave that's going to come and you know and he gives them rags and

2081
03:02:43,560 --> 03:02:48,440
they all get super excited and this all really happened and then at the end like after months of

2082
03:02:48,440 --> 03:02:53,800
this he wits them up into this whole fascist group and he shows he's going to kind of show the picture

2083
03:02:53,800 --> 03:02:58,920
about a new leader who's going to lead us to this great new world and it's then he shows him a picture

2084
03:02:58,920 --> 03:03:04,840
battle of Hitler and they're rated the top made for TV movie that's super effective and everything and

2085
03:03:04,840 --> 03:03:10,040
they used to show it to kids and Israel I know they used to show it a lot of people got their minds

2086
03:03:10,040 --> 03:03:14,600
blown by this movie and sadly they stopped showing it maybe if they kept on showing it

2087
03:03:15,640 --> 03:03:21,320
wouldn't be where we are today literally being turned into a fascist country as we speak if you

2088
03:03:21,320 --> 03:03:27,400
knew the covered it for you but Israel is right now the courts are going to be abolished and good not

2089
03:03:27,400 --> 03:03:35,480
a ball away but yeah yeah there's a very nice little fascist who happening right now a judicial

2090
03:03:35,480 --> 03:03:41,560
cute cool yeah well anyway fun times yes I had heard of it but I didn't pay attention my I'm

2091
03:03:41,560 --> 03:03:48,520
doing a documentary about movie novelizations and the director posted on our novelization feed every

2092
03:03:48,520 --> 03:03:53,880
day is a new novelization he posted that they did a novelization for the way I just knew by just

2093
03:03:53,880 --> 03:03:59,320
wow yeah I had no idea about that movie what it was about but I just know that the novelization is

2094
03:03:59,320 --> 03:04:06,200
written by Todd Strasser who wrote Ferris Bieler's Day off novelization and like and Bill and Ted

2095
03:04:06,200 --> 03:04:12,520
which I read Bill and Ted's book is journey oh you did read that yes yeah that's that's why I know that

2096
03:04:12,520 --> 03:04:17,800
little old lady who's driving there at the end with the beehive that she was earlier in the film

2097
03:04:17,800 --> 03:04:23,080
at the bank when Ferris was trying to like what was a break his trust or something to take out all the

2098
03:04:23,080 --> 03:04:27,960
money to pay for the big day off oh really I didn't read a novelization do you know the

2099
03:04:27,960 --> 03:04:32,920
novelization explains that they had like yeah two brothers I mean had a brother and sister I would

2100
03:04:32,920 --> 03:04:38,600
cut out the movie because when Janie's walking around the house escaping this ceremony there's children's

2101
03:04:38,600 --> 03:04:42,600
drawings over the fridge you know like who does those and it's just the two kids that were kind of

2102
03:04:42,600 --> 03:04:47,560
the movie I had no idea about the old lady oh look at that I should check you out

2103
03:04:47,560 --> 03:04:55,880
still remember I'm back in like eighty nine when I read it or something yes that's that's that's

2104
03:04:55,880 --> 03:05:00,600
the beauty of them that's so cool anyway there's a wave novelization I didn't realize

2105
03:05:00,600 --> 03:05:04,760
I should have paid more attention to that book when I was posting it that's so cool I know that was

2106
03:05:04,760 --> 03:05:12,200
it now I got to watch this grass off version so I'm excited cool to question mark excited too I mean

2107
03:05:12,200 --> 03:05:18,520
it sounds great but it also sounds horrific an ABC prime time drama or he's he there's also

2108
03:05:18,520 --> 03:05:25,160
she want a lighter lighter thing there's a doll about the so about the real event you know the podcast

2109
03:05:25,160 --> 03:05:31,560
the doll up no no only those years listen the podcasts the doll up is great I can't recommend

2110
03:05:31,560 --> 03:05:37,480
about a highly enough so funny what sounds very much like the Stanford prison experiment where it's

2111
03:05:37,480 --> 03:05:43,080
like we're gonna put half the guys as prisoners after guys as you know in uniform and then we'll just

2112
03:05:43,080 --> 03:05:48,040
see how breaks down yeah a little bit accepted I mean yeah it was completely insane but it's

2113
03:05:48,040 --> 03:05:52,680
if you listen to the whole story the teacher like he tried it a little bit and was he like made it

2114
03:05:52,680 --> 03:05:56,840
up as he went to law he didn't necessarily have this endgame to begin with is there anything else we

2115
03:05:56,840 --> 03:06:02,520
want to talk about Jacob Slatter is what tiny detail that I noticed in the deleted scene with a ceiling

2116
03:06:02,520 --> 03:06:09,080
demon and everything it cuts to some flies trapped in cobwebs and right away after that Tim Robbins

2117
03:06:09,080 --> 03:06:15,640
goes help me so I don't know if that's a coincidence but it's a bleaker fly reference I didn't

2118
03:06:15,640 --> 03:06:22,040
just that's interesting the cobwebs because the cobwebs is the is the thing that we noticed before he

2119
03:06:22,040 --> 03:06:26,760
goes in the shower after he goes in the shower and it cuts back to him in the home and the rain's falling

2120
03:06:26,760 --> 03:06:32,200
on him he's staring up at a spider web in that scene and that's a beautiful shot the way that they

2121
03:06:32,200 --> 03:06:37,480
rack focused to it oh yeah the other thing is I don't know it's pretty random but just recently

2122
03:06:37,480 --> 03:06:43,640
it's like a very flattering comparison to Jacob Slatter movie I just watched recently was the new

2123
03:06:43,640 --> 03:06:48,680
shammal and movie and not get the cabin you guys see if he's heard about it just seen it heard about it

2124
03:06:48,680 --> 03:06:54,760
and I know it's already available on the man after just like a couple weeks it's not I don't recommend it

2125
03:06:54,760 --> 03:06:59,560
it is very well directed I mean you gotta give him props that just in terms of putting a movie together

2126
03:06:59,560 --> 03:07:06,040
he's super talented but it's basically a movie that is very religious at its core because it's just

2127
03:07:06,040 --> 03:07:12,680
presented with characters with a basically do you want to save your family or save all of mankind and

2128
03:07:12,680 --> 03:07:19,960
like okay so it's kind of premise that only a religious person could possibly relate to because it's

2129
03:07:19,960 --> 03:07:27,080
this mungo jambut I think but I like how Jacob Slatter deals with also to religious themes but it doesn't

2130
03:07:27,080 --> 03:07:32,760
does it in such a way that there's something in it for everybody yeah I mean as an atheist I'm just like

2131
03:07:32,760 --> 03:07:39,480
I'm fascinated by this stuff and I wasn't like oh yeah Christian mungo jambo clap clap kind of

2132
03:07:39,480 --> 03:07:45,960
stuff which you know I see so often or it's just like okay whatever but this one yeah I didn't feel

2133
03:07:45,960 --> 03:07:52,600
offended or on the outside looking in kind of thing it's not hitting you over the head like a Christian

2134
03:07:52,600 --> 03:08:00,040
movie would though those are a lot of fun I'm so curious to see the new left behind movie just because

2135
03:08:00,040 --> 03:08:06,520
those things are just such garbage in there's so, so funny well thank you so much guys for stopping by

2136
03:08:06,520 --> 03:08:13,800
so you need even Steven Steven what's the latest with you I'm finishing just finishing right now as we

2137
03:08:13,800 --> 03:08:21,080
talk documentary called shark's pletatian hopefully out this summer about the history of sharks in

2138
03:08:21,080 --> 03:08:29,320
cinema and we are gonna be starting our podcast again Josh Miller the co-writer of sonic the

2139
03:08:29,320 --> 03:08:35,400
hedgehog movies and violent night him and I do a podcast called best movies never made you can find us on twitter

2140
03:08:35,400 --> 03:08:41,640
at never made film yeah we do a podcast about movies that were never made and we're gonna be returning

2141
03:08:41,640 --> 03:08:47,240
soon we were just on a little hiatus because he had some script deadlines and I had to finish this movie but

2142
03:08:47,240 --> 03:08:54,040
yeah those are our my two things and also making documentary on novelizations as I mentioned earlier

2143
03:08:54,040 --> 03:09:00,040
Jim Coons is directing please follow us on Titan film on twitter and you need how about you well as always

2144
03:09:00,040 --> 03:09:06,120
on doing subtitles for your favorite neighborhood streaming giant into Hebrew so if you're watching me

2145
03:09:06,120 --> 03:09:12,600
Hebrew enjoy and raising my daughter in protesting against the fascist takeover that's how I spend my

2146
03:09:12,600 --> 03:09:18,200
uh free time very noble cause I really appreciate that well thank you so much guys for being

2147
03:09:18,200 --> 03:09:21,880
out of the show thanks everybody for listening if you want to hear more me shooting off my mouth

2148
03:09:21,880 --> 03:09:27,560
check out some of the other shows I work on they are all available at weedingwaymedia.com thanks especially

2149
03:09:27,560 --> 03:09:33,160
to our patreon community if you want to join the community visit patreon.com/projectionbooth

2150
03:09:33,160 --> 03:09:45,480
every donation we get helps the projection booth take over the world

2151
03:09:45,480 --> 03:09:57,480
I can make a my mind which one you are I'd like to wake up in my life

2152
03:09:57,480 --> 03:10:12,120
never in town there with every you are I'm answering I miss you I miss you never

2153
03:10:12,120 --> 03:10:36,120
I'm answering you never I'm answering you never I'm answering you never I'm answering you

2154
03:10:36,120 --> 03:10:47,160
you love like an angel your smile is the vibe what you keep me guessing

2155
03:10:47,160 --> 03:11:00,360
will you ever be mine double or in the please say you will be mine love me or leave me

2156
03:11:00,360 --> 03:11:17,240
I believe all of my mind never all in town there with every you are I love you I love you I love you

2157
03:11:17,240 --> 03:11:33,320
I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you

2158
03:11:33,320 --> 03:11:38,320
♪ Nature, dreams, they give me my hand ♪

2159
03:11:38,320 --> 03:11:43,960
♪ Love me all in me, I've made a mine ♪

2160
03:11:43,960 --> 03:11:48,160
♪ Never learned how ♪

2161
03:11:48,160 --> 03:11:53,160
♪ There we are, I love you ♪

2162
03:11:53,160 --> 03:11:55,840
♪ I love you, I love you ♪

2163
03:12:00,640 --> 03:12:05,640
♪ You're still here ♪

2164
03:12:05,640 --> 03:12:09,640
♪ It's over ♪

2165
03:12:09,640 --> 03:12:12,640
♪ Go home ♪

2166
03:12:12,640 --> 03:12:18,640
♪ Go ♪

2167
03:12:18,640 --> 03:12:28,640
[MUSIC]