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We continue our journey through the woods deeper into the darkness.

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We still hear its soft and ticing, an unmistakable voice calling to us.

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We keep walking as we ponder how to respond.

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We can hear the sound of something moving in the bushes.

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We cannot see what it is.

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We quicken our pace, eager to reach the clearing where the final six podcast hosts are waiting.

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We finally reach the clearing and we see them gathered around a campfire.

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They are the ones who alleed us into those darkest corners of the human psyche and the

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supernatural realm.

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So gather round, dear listener, as the forest darkens around us.

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Sandy from Twisted Travel and True Crime is who we see first.

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She specializes in unsolved murders.

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A host whose voice is a chilling breeze on a moonless night.

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Her stories will take us down dark and twisted paths where we will learn about the dark side

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of human nature.

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Rebecca Gay loved the spooky season.

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Her home in Mount Pleasant, Trailer Park in Michigan stood out among the sea of tiny

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homes because it was covered in scarecrow.

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With 13 of them adorning her mobile home in tiny yard, Rebecca was excited to take

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her three-year-old conway, trick-or-treating for the first time.

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It was a season of first for her, as she had recently acquired her own home, a place she

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could decorate to her heart's content.

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And for Rebecca, scarecrow's were a must have for all Hallows eve.

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Her journey hadn't been easy, but at age 24 things were looking up for her.

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She and her fiance, Erin, were finally going to move into their very own home.

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Rebecca and her son Conway bid farewell to the comfort of Erin's parents' house in August.

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With the help of her extended family, they moved into the mobile home she was renting.

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The move brought her closer to her workplace and to her mother's home, which was a blessing

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for both of them.

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Erin planned to join them once he found a job closer to Rebecca.

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Although she lunged for Erin's presence, Rebecca knew she had to be patient.

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She relied on her side of the family for support, and they were always there for her.

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They attended Christ community fellowship church together, where Rebecca's mother was

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engaged to John White, the pastor.

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John became involved in Rebecca's life babysitting Conway and assisting both Rebecca and her

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mother whenever he could.

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He even helped Rebecca set up her new trailer.

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They teased her about her spooky decorations and listened to her excitedly talk about Conway's

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Halloween costume and their plans for the holiday.

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Rebecca had arranged to work the earliest shift on Halloween day.

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That way she would have plenty of time to pick up Conway and get him ready for trick or

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treating.

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However, when Rebecca didn't show up for work that morning, her co-workers grew concerned.

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She was always punctual, so her absence was unusual.

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They chide calling her cell phone, but it went straight to voicemail.

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When she was afraid, they decided to check on her at her house.

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Her car wasn't in the driveway, but they saw it across the street, backed into some brush

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behind a local bar.

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The bar was locked, as was Rebecca's home.

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Growing increasingly worried, her co-workers contacted her landlord who came to unlock the

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door.

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Rebecca was nowhere to be found, but her purse sat on the kitchen table.

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It was one of her prized possessions, and she wouldn't go anywhere without it.

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Her cell phone and keys were missing.

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As they searched the house, they noticed the living room carpet was mad at down, except for

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one small area, and there were small red stains on it.

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Alarmed, they called the police and informed Rebecca's family and friends, who immediately

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joined in the search.

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Thankfully, they discovered that Conway was safe and with his biological father.

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The police interviewed Rebecca's family and friends, starting with Aaron, who had last spoken

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to her the night before her disappearance.

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He mentioned that they had a pleasant conversation, but when he texted her on Halloween morning,

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she didn't reply.

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It seemed as though the message hadn't gone through at all.

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This was unusual as they hadn't been fighting, and Rebecca typically charged her phone,

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and was responsive.

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The police believed Aaron's genuine concern, and cleared him of suspicion.

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Next, they turned their attention to Chad, Rebecca's ex and Conway's father.

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He cooperated with the police, stating that he and Rebecca had been co-parenting well

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without any major issues.

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He grew frustrated with the constant questioning, as he wanted to join the search for the

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person who had taken Rebecca.

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The police tended to believe him, too, leaving them puzzled.

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There were no signs of forced entry at Rebecca's home, so the police concluded that Rebecca

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had likely been abducted by someone she knew and trusted.

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As they built a timeline for her disappearance, they discovered that Rebecca was supposed

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to meet Chad at a Myers department store parking lot to exchange custody of Conway.

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However, John, her soon to be father-in-law, had dropped off Conway instead, without Rebecca

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informing Chad about the change in plans.

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The investigators turned their eyes towards John, who had been actively involved in the search

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efforts for Rebecca, and had willingly cooperated with the police.

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They discovered that he was the pastor at the local church, and that he had reached out

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to his congregation that morning, urging them to assist in the search for Rebecca, and

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pray for her safe return.

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He said that he had gone to Rebecca's trailer to Baby Sit Conway that morning.

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He arrived at 630 and heard Rebecca getting ready for work.

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He fell asleep on the couch and was later woken by Conway, and Rebecca had gone.

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Given that John was the last person known to have been in Rebecca's presence, the police

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requested that he take a polygraph test.

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Initially hesitant, John eventually agreed to undergo the test.

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Since the police department in Mount Pleasant, Michigan didn't have its own polygraph machine,

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they planned to take John to the nearest one, in Lansing, approximately an hour away.

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During the drive, the officer who was accompanying him, engaged in small talk, hoping to ease

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his nervousness.

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The officer asked John about his background in personal life, eventually broaching the

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topic of his concerns about the polygraph.

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John admitted he was worried because he had a criminal passed, revealing that he had been

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involved in an attempted murder case that was ultimately dismissed.

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It resulted in a two-year prison sentence.

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The thing was, John wasn't telling everything about his past.

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Unlike the scarecrows that decorated Rebecca's house, this officer had a brain.

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He pulled up John's criminal record, and to his astonishment he discovered the man who

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presented himself as a devoted preacher, had a far from saintly passed.

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In 1980, when John was just 22 years old and living with his family in Battle Creek, Michigan,

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he invited his 17-year-old neighbor, Teresa Atherton, to his basement, under the pretense

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of showing her his racetrack.

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Teresa, being a kindhearted girl, likely fained interest out of plightness.

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However, as she turned to face the racetrack, John viciously stabbed her under the right

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shoulder blade.

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With a chilling smile on his face, he continued to stab her a total of 14 times, before choking

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her, and callously uttering the words, "You're going to go now."

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Miraculously, Teresa survived this brutal attack, and John White was arrested.

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He did go to jail, and he did only serve two years.

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Passed forward to 1994, John was still married to his first wife, despite his troubled past.

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Yes, I can't explain that one.

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His wife was pregnant with their third child, when John started an affair with a co-worker

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named Vicki Wall.

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When Vicki suddenly disappeared, suspicion immediately fell on John.

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He initially denied any involvement in her disappearance, claiming he had no knowledge

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of what happened to her.

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However, when he was confronted with surveillance footage showing Vicki getting into a large

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pickup truck with a bearded man in the Meyer parking lot he admitted to meeting her, but

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insisted he was alive when he left her.

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As the detectives continued their investigation, Vicki's relatives looked for her body, convinced

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she was buried nearby.

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Their worst fears were confirmed six weeks later, when a resident stumbled upon a gruesome

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scene.

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Her body was decomposed and partially covered by a shirt and bra around her neck.

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Thoughtopsy couldn't determine the cause of death, but the pathologist believed it was a homicide.

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John was charged with murder, however, due to the lack of conclusive evidence and the difficulty

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in determining the cause of death, he ultimately pled guilty to involuntary manslaughter.

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Police believed that John's motive for killing Vicki was that she was pressuring him about

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their affair and maybe she threatened to tell his wife.

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The judge recognized John's dangerous nature and sentenced him to the maximum term of eight

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to fifteen years in prison.

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After serving nearly thirteen years he was released and relocated to Mount Pleasant, where

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he took on the persona of Pastor White, fiancee to Sally, and all around good guy, except

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he wasn't.

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If there was good in John, it was that he would eventually admit to police what he had

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done to Rebecca that Halloween morning.

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Behind closed doors he had scoured the darkest corners of the internet, immersing himself into

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poverty and feeding his dark desires.

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The screen flickered with images that fascinated and repulsed him, murder and necrophilia,

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or consistently on his mind.

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That night as Rebecca checked her son into bed and kissed him good night, she had no idea

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that it would be for the last time.

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At two in the morning she was sleeping peacefully when she was startled awake by a chilling

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sound in a sense of panic.

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She walked out of her room, her heart pounding in her chest, worried that her son was up,

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or something worse.

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In a horrifying instant John pounced on her, his face contorted with the mixture of madness

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and sadistic pleasure.

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He held a rubber mallet in his hand and with brutal force he struck her repeatedly.

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Her cries for help were drowned out by the sickening thud of the mallet as it connected

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with her head.

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Rebecca in the midst of the brutal attack recognized her assailant.

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She managed to utter the words "I know you" before John tightened a zip tie around her neck,

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strangling her.

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Then he had his way with her.

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John's true nature came to the surface in the early hours of Halloween morning, leaving

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Sally Rebecca's mother in a state of profound shock.

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Not only had she lost her beloved daughter, but she found out that she had fallen in love

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with the murder.

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In the courtroom as the judge pronounced the sentence, John gazed around the room with

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an unsettling detachment, seeming unaffected by the pain he had inflicted on Rebecca and

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her loved ones.

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The judge handed down a severe sentence, condemning him to between 56 and 85 years in prison.

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You are safe from John Douglas White this Halloween, but be aware of all the other ghosts,

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ghouls, and things that go bump in the night.

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If you'd like to hear more details about this case, I'd like to invite you to listen to

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the extended version called The Devil Disguise, the murder of Rebecca Gay.

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Thanks for listening to Twisted Travel on True Crime and for all the good things you do

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to support these podcasts.

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I wish you all fair winds following seas in the safest of Halloween nights.

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Niki and Mariah, the hosts of Body to Vereal, speak each week to experts who have seen and

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heard things that will make our blood run cold.

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Their tails are like a pair of haunting eyes, ever watching in the darkness, ready to reveal

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the truth behind the unexplained incrims, in death, and in what might happen after.

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Last week's episode, I think you're just going to be so excited about it.

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I feel like it speaks to your soul and I'm really excited for you to hear it and participate.

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We have two gentlemen joining us today, which I guess is actually another Body to Vereal

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first for us.

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We have a duo.

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We have Matthew.

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Matthew is a Chicago Fire Department firefighter.

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We have David who is a Chicago police officer.

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I'm sure you're wondering why do we have a firefighter and a police officer?

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Why am I so stressed about that?

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Yeah, right.

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Right.

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Well, the dynamic duo of Matt and David, they also have a little side hustle, which you know

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I love.

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Uh-huh.

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Hair and normal investigators.

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I love that.

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You know I love that.

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Yeah.

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What?

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Mary, all the fun stuff.

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All I want to do right now is sing the Ghost Busters.

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The fun, but I won't do that for listeners, but it's literally on loop in my brain right

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now.

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Oh my God.

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No, that is really a different side hustle than what their normal job is.

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That's incredible.

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Right.

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Actually, yes.

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So, super pumped.

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Oh, you know I love ghost stuff.

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Okay.

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Yeah, I'm excited.

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Well, let me go grab them.

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Oh, okay.

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Hello, Matthew, David.

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Can you hear us?

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This is Dave.

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Can you hear me?

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Yay.

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Yes.

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Hello.

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Hi.

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And I'm on to.

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Yay.

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Hi Matt.

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Thank you both for taking the time to talk to us.

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I appreciate you indulging in our request to have you guys.

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Nikki is obsessed with paranormal shows.

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Yeah.

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All the shows.

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And so this is really exciting for her to have you guys.

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Yeah.

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I really am.

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Awesome.

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I think the first question we have to get out of the way is how did this come about?

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I call it a side hustle, but how did you guys go from being firefighter, police officer to

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deciding to investigate paranormal activities?

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How do you even get into that?

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What sparks the idea?

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00:15:05,940 --> 00:15:07,700
Well, Matt, do you want to start?

240
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:08,700
Yeah, sure.

241
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:14,180
So me and Dave met Dave had already been investigating and I was actually out on the street

242
00:15:14,180 --> 00:15:16,180
with the fire truck.

243
00:15:16,180 --> 00:15:20,100
And I was acting for Make a Wish, you know, Shake the Bood, collect the money for kids and

244
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:21,100
stuff like that.

245
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:25,620
And David rolled up in the what we call Misty, which is our command center.

246
00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:26,620
I saw his police shirt.

247
00:15:26,620 --> 00:15:29,840
Now you know, like what kind of special, I thought it was like a special unit with the Chicago

248
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:30,840
police department.

249
00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:31,840
So I'm like, Oh, what's going on here?

250
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,840
Who are you?

251
00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,620
And he goes, I'm not sure if you believe it or not, but I'm a paranormal investigator.

252
00:15:35,620 --> 00:15:37,100
And I'm like, get out of here.

253
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:43,500
You know, we had like two, like maybe 30 seconds to a minute to actually converse because

254
00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,420
it was like the light had turned green.

255
00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:47,700
He was off to his, one of his other jobs.

256
00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:50,380
I went back to collecting and I thought about it later.

257
00:15:50,380 --> 00:15:51,460
I sent Dave an email.

258
00:15:51,460 --> 00:15:52,460
I looked them up.

259
00:15:52,460 --> 00:15:56,220
I looked up all his evidence and I had been interested in the paranormal.

260
00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:57,700
Never really did any investigations.

261
00:15:57,700 --> 00:16:02,260
So I looked up his stuff and looked them up, sent them an email, say, Hey, I'd love to join

262
00:16:02,260 --> 00:16:03,260
you.

263
00:16:03,260 --> 00:16:04,420
You know, check out an investigation.

264
00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:09,700
And I think maybe a month or two something came up and yeah, so it's been, I don't even

265
00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,460
know how long that's been maybe eight years.

266
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:12,460
Dave.

267
00:16:12,460 --> 00:16:13,460
It's right.

268
00:16:13,460 --> 00:16:14,820
Yeah, last track, but something like that.

269
00:16:14,820 --> 00:16:19,300
So then how did you, I know, it's going to sound like what is that six cents like I see dead

270
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:25,500
people, but like, how did you even get into that like where you could know how to do it?

271
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:26,500
All that stuff.

272
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:33,820
I've become, we've kept, I'm still skeptical of course, because that's what I have to be.

273
00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:37,020
You know, I got to be even even I am at times.

274
00:16:37,020 --> 00:16:38,780
You can't be all in paranormal.

275
00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:40,180
You got to look at both angles.

276
00:16:40,180 --> 00:16:42,300
But I have to see it to believe it.

277
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:46,940
And then one of the first full body apparition that we captured on camera was like, it put my

278
00:16:46,940 --> 00:16:47,940
mind.

279
00:16:47,940 --> 00:16:48,940
I like it.

280
00:16:48,940 --> 00:16:51,180
I couldn't believe it because I was like, yeah, like I was there.

281
00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:52,180
I knew what was going on.

282
00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:55,180
I mean, we didn't see it physically with our eyes.

283
00:16:55,180 --> 00:16:58,780
Actually, I wasn't even in the room when it happened, but David took it to take a series

284
00:16:58,780 --> 00:17:04,540
of pictures with full spectrum camera and later on through evidence review, he finds

285
00:17:04,540 --> 00:17:06,820
this like full body shadow.

286
00:17:06,820 --> 00:17:07,820
No.

287
00:17:07,820 --> 00:17:12,500
Yeah, it almost looked like a civil war soldier or somebody in a jumpsuit.

288
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,260
It was an old, it was a building that used to be used.

289
00:17:15,260 --> 00:17:16,780
And that's right.

290
00:17:16,780 --> 00:17:19,580
Yeah, the, the, the angle would alarm office.

291
00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:20,580
Yeah.

292
00:17:20,580 --> 00:17:21,980
That is so interesting to me.

293
00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:27,700
Do people call you and say, Hey, I think my house is haunted or you just kind of go to different,

294
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,380
kind of known both.

295
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:37,060
I've been in a lot of, a lot of emails all the time from Facebook messages to the website,

296
00:17:37,060 --> 00:17:39,060
emails, word of mouth.

297
00:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,980
And you know, when I first started this, I used to try to go to all of them, but it just can't

298
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:48,260
do it because with Matt, myself and some of the other members, you know, sometimes we've

299
00:17:48,260 --> 00:17:49,260
got to take off work.

300
00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:54,260
It's costing money, you know, using a vacation day or we can do it.

301
00:17:54,260 --> 00:17:58,780
So we try to pick and choose which ones are important or which ones we would really like

302
00:17:58,780 --> 00:17:59,780
to go to.

303
00:17:59,780 --> 00:18:04,900
And then after doing an investigation, it takes days, weeks to go through everything and

304
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:06,500
match everything up.

305
00:18:06,500 --> 00:18:11,260
So we try to pick and choose the ones that need help, you know, the good ones.

306
00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:15,700
So because I had, I, I told Mariah this a really long time ago, but I had an apartment.

307
00:18:15,700 --> 00:18:20,740
I moved out of it two months early because I swear I was haunted and then one of my, it

308
00:18:20,740 --> 00:18:21,980
really was, I swear.

309
00:18:21,980 --> 00:18:26,940
And then one of my friends from work, she was telling me to like, sage the place and then

310
00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:29,300
she was telling me to tell it to go to the light.

311
00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:33,700
So I turned on the TV as loud as I could because I was afraid it was going to tell me

312
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:36,700
no.

313
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:45,460
And so I did that and nothing happened, but I got, I got a dog and after I got my dog, things

314
00:18:45,460 --> 00:18:48,820
kind of settled down a little bit, but I still moved out early.

315
00:18:48,820 --> 00:18:52,940
And then when you guys like say you went to my apartment and you're like, yeah, there's

316
00:18:52,940 --> 00:18:54,580
a creeper in here.

317
00:18:54,580 --> 00:18:57,980
What would you do to get them to try and go away?

318
00:18:57,980 --> 00:19:01,660
Well, you know, depending on what your beliefs are, there's different things you can do,

319
00:19:01,660 --> 00:19:05,300
but when it comes to like apartments, you might have to do a daily, weekly, monthly, you

320
00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:10,060
had to see what works, but usually when we cleanse our self, our equipment and stuff after

321
00:19:10,060 --> 00:19:15,020
an investigation, we use white sage, we use polisanto, holy wood.

322
00:19:15,020 --> 00:19:19,700
And then I have what is called dragons blood is basically sage, but it's, it's like a, has

323
00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:23,260
a reddish tint to it and it's a little, little more kick to it.

324
00:19:23,260 --> 00:19:24,260
Okay.

325
00:19:24,260 --> 00:19:25,260
I'll use anything.

326
00:19:25,260 --> 00:19:26,260
I'll use it all.

327
00:19:26,260 --> 00:19:27,260
It doesn't.

328
00:19:27,260 --> 00:19:33,420
I also have a frankincense and mirth that that's what a lot of the churches use, you know,

329
00:19:33,420 --> 00:19:37,100
especially when it comes to like a, you know, a funeral in a body pass.

330
00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:43,020
And if you see like the priest of the pastor with the incense going around the body and

331
00:19:43,020 --> 00:19:47,460
it can't, most of the time that's like frankincense and mirth.

332
00:19:47,460 --> 00:19:52,460
So sometimes I'll use that maybe for a spirit to go into the light to go to the next step.

333
00:19:52,460 --> 00:19:58,020
Have you ever encountered evil, I guess, because they're probably just like, you know, grandma

334
00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:03,140
that passed and she likes her house and she's hanging out or, you know, but then there's also

335
00:20:03,140 --> 00:20:06,060
the dangerous see type ones, I guess.

336
00:20:06,060 --> 00:20:07,060
Yeah.

337
00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:11,540
A few, in two I experienced it myself and like just met pretty much the same way, correct,

338
00:20:11,540 --> 00:20:15,860
until we experience their self, you know, I'll keep an open mind, but sometimes I'll

339
00:20:15,860 --> 00:20:19,100
be like, oh, that's full of beep, you know, I don't.

340
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:23,580
But once I experienced it or it comes something close to it then I'm like, oh my God, there's

341
00:20:23,580 --> 00:20:24,580
something to that.

342
00:20:24,580 --> 00:20:25,580
Yeah.

343
00:20:25,580 --> 00:20:31,180
Yeah, there's a few cases that open my eyes that there's, looks like there's evil out there.

344
00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:37,060
And from my experiences dealing with different psychic mediums that I trust and stuff, you know,

345
00:20:37,060 --> 00:20:41,860
whatever the reason is, there's, you got earthbound spirits and then you got more sinister

346
00:20:41,860 --> 00:20:45,220
or evil stuff if that's what, you know, that's what you believe.

347
00:20:45,220 --> 00:20:46,820
That's what I'm telling you to believe now.

348
00:20:46,820 --> 00:20:47,820
Okay.

349
00:20:47,820 --> 00:20:53,860
But earthbound is just for whatever reason, the spirits did not move on to the next step.

350
00:20:53,860 --> 00:20:58,180
Whatever you decide that next step is they just stayed earthbound and then they say if you

351
00:20:58,180 --> 00:21:01,580
haven't moved on to the next step, you know, in your earthbound, you're going to be that

352
00:21:01,580 --> 00:21:03,380
same person you were when you were living.

353
00:21:03,380 --> 00:21:08,660
So if you were a crevio old man or only in your house, they might be treating you the

354
00:21:08,660 --> 00:21:10,580
same way, you know?

355
00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:11,580
Yeah.

356
00:21:11,580 --> 00:21:14,460
So I do get a lot of getouts, get out of here, get out.

357
00:21:14,460 --> 00:21:17,100
So that's probably the old man thinking I'm trespassing.

358
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:18,100
How is that?

359
00:21:18,100 --> 00:21:22,380
Oh, yeah, like where you can hear, like where you can hear something that says like get

360
00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:23,380
out.

361
00:21:23,380 --> 00:21:24,380
Yes, they get that a lot.

362
00:21:24,380 --> 00:21:27,980
No, that has helped me and a lot of getouts.

363
00:21:27,980 --> 00:21:32,500
And when you hear, like weeks later, when you do your finish the investigation, that's when

364
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:36,140
you're listening to the getouts, or can you hear it right then and there?

365
00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:38,100
You know, there is times.

366
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:41,620
It's not often, but there's times, especially if you're a little more sensitive, like

367
00:21:41,620 --> 00:21:46,220
sometimes it seems like I'm able to tune in a little more than some of the other people

368
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:51,940
where I could hear my own ears, but there's times you get to hear stuff with your own ears,

369
00:21:51,940 --> 00:21:56,300
disembodied voices that comes through strong where you don't need the frequencies of the

370
00:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,020
voice recorders or, you know, the mics picking it up sometimes were able to hear it, but

371
00:22:00,020 --> 00:22:01,020
there's something out there.

372
00:22:01,020 --> 00:22:04,980
You know, I think it's spirits, but if not, maybe it's another dimension of some type

373
00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:10,580
or we're tapping into something, but there's definitely, you know, I say you would agree

374
00:22:10,580 --> 00:22:14,380
Matt, there's intelligent spirits or whatever you want to call it out there that can

375
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:19,820
you communicate back and there's a trapped energy residual energy that no matter if you

376
00:22:19,820 --> 00:22:24,500
there are not, it's going to make that same noise, same footsteps, same door open.

377
00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:29,980
Is this for some reason some energy is being trapped in that area or that house or whatever

378
00:22:29,980 --> 00:22:31,700
one I call it that room?

379
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:34,420
And you think that's they've already gone.

380
00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:39,420
Let's just say to the light or like beyond, but their energy a little bit of their energies

381
00:22:39,420 --> 00:22:40,420
there.

382
00:22:40,420 --> 00:22:45,100
So I'll give you an example of on a case that we handled.

383
00:22:45,100 --> 00:22:50,660
I don't think you were at that one, Matt, but there was a house in Wisconsin where this lady

384
00:22:50,660 --> 00:22:55,340
was complaining about a male spirit, the wheeling against the fireplace from the fireplace

385
00:22:55,340 --> 00:23:00,020
that would go down the hallway to her room, stand over her and then back to the fireplace.

386
00:23:00,020 --> 00:23:01,020
That's the route it would take.

387
00:23:01,020 --> 00:23:03,020
And she could see him.

388
00:23:03,020 --> 00:23:04,020
Yes.

389
00:23:04,020 --> 00:23:05,020
I guess the physical thing.

390
00:23:05,020 --> 00:23:06,020
Yes.

391
00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:07,020
Okay.

392
00:23:07,020 --> 00:23:11,500
So she had the same spirit at the house you lived in before.

393
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:12,740
So she moved to this new house.

394
00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:17,460
She was our six months still experiencing that spirit among other stuff that I could get

395
00:23:17,460 --> 00:23:18,460
into later.

396
00:23:18,460 --> 00:23:24,500
But, but anyway, when we were there were investigating somehow we linked this fireplace.

397
00:23:24,500 --> 00:23:27,220
It was a fake fireplace and she was an artist.

398
00:23:27,220 --> 00:23:32,260
So she saw it on the curbside at her old place and didn't know really the history on it.

399
00:23:32,260 --> 00:23:38,020
She said, oh, this is a nice piece of art, you know, and she fixed it up and from that place

400
00:23:38,020 --> 00:23:40,660
brought it to her in her place and had this male spirit.

401
00:23:40,660 --> 00:23:46,900
So we linked that this male spirit was attached to this piece, you know, the fireplace.

402
00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:47,900
Oh, yeah.

403
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:52,980
So that night she had a skit rid of it and from that point on she never saw it again.

404
00:23:52,980 --> 00:23:57,300
But we found out later interviewing old neighbors that the guy who made this piece committed

405
00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:00,700
suicide and this was his favorite piece.

406
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:04,540
And then when he once he died, you know, they removed all his belongings and put them on

407
00:24:04,540 --> 00:24:07,660
the curb and earns whatever and that's when she picked it up.

408
00:24:07,660 --> 00:24:13,620
But so that that male spirit who committed suicide was attached to this favorite piece.

409
00:24:13,620 --> 00:24:14,620
This is a favorite piece.

410
00:24:14,620 --> 00:24:15,620
Yeah.

411
00:24:15,620 --> 00:24:16,620
Does that happen a lot?

412
00:24:16,620 --> 00:24:18,460
Because I've heard of that too.

413
00:24:18,460 --> 00:24:22,260
That's why my husband's like never get anything from a flea market.

414
00:24:22,260 --> 00:24:26,020
Yeah, I'm cautious myself when it comes to that.

415
00:24:26,020 --> 00:24:31,900
But they say some of the mediums that we deal with and, you know, I can't say works 100%

416
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:38,060
they preach that if you get it by anything you use any antics, aggride sales, have a bottle

417
00:24:38,060 --> 00:24:43,860
filled with water and sea salt, a spray bottle and spray the item before putting it in your

418
00:24:43,860 --> 00:24:48,500
car and they kind of compare it to like if you're cooking with a tough land pan, how

419
00:24:48,500 --> 00:24:50,060
nothing sticks to it.

420
00:24:50,060 --> 00:24:54,020
So when you coat it with the sea salt and water, that energy is supposed to slide.

421
00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:55,020
Yeah.

422
00:24:55,020 --> 00:24:59,660
That's because that just reminded me of what I was going to ask you before was can anything

423
00:24:59,660 --> 00:25:02,460
come home with you like get attached to you.

424
00:25:02,460 --> 00:25:03,460
Yes.

425
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:05,460
I wasn't a believer in that.

426
00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:06,460
I thought that was full of crap.

427
00:25:06,460 --> 00:25:07,460
Excuse my expression.

428
00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:14,820
But until I experienced it myself, at least a handful of times and it took that to get

429
00:25:14,820 --> 00:25:20,660
me into staging and protecting myself, family, you know, all their team members with, you

430
00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:24,380
know, staging after an investigation because it's been a handful of times.

431
00:25:24,380 --> 00:25:29,820
I think I had nothing bad, you know, even one time I had a family over from out of state

432
00:25:29,820 --> 00:25:33,940
and they experienced it too and never had a problem in my house until I, you know, started

433
00:25:33,940 --> 00:25:39,100
this and it's just something like my very first investigation where I had something follow

434
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:40,100
me.

435
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:45,300
I think it's something that I knew they knew I saw it or heard it and just wanted to continue

436
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:46,300
to communicate.

437
00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:49,580
So it's tugging me, tugging my shirt.

438
00:25:49,580 --> 00:25:50,580
This is all new to me.

439
00:25:50,580 --> 00:25:54,660
I've been like a little baby to my wife.

440
00:25:54,660 --> 00:25:59,620
You know, I remember I was in the kitchen and we just had the basement already done with

441
00:25:59,620 --> 00:26:04,420
a nice family room and stuff put down there and I'm in the kitchen.

442
00:26:04,420 --> 00:26:09,420
I think I was cooking dinner and I get like three or four tugs on my shirt.

443
00:26:09,420 --> 00:26:13,780
I mean, really hard where it's pulling them like and I jump and I look, you know, and

444
00:26:13,780 --> 00:26:17,900
I look and there's no one around and there's nothing I could have got hooked on and I

445
00:26:17,900 --> 00:26:24,740
was like a Scooby-Doo, you know, running down and this is just having a meeting, you know,

446
00:26:24,740 --> 00:26:29,940
and you know, you're only human until you start experiencing it, but I was in the shower

447
00:26:29,940 --> 00:26:35,580
and I hear a male voice whispering in my ear and this was from the same investigation.

448
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:37,620
But I jumped out like a little kid.

449
00:26:37,620 --> 00:26:41,980
I hate to admit, but I turned down the shower curtains and I was just stunned.

450
00:26:41,980 --> 00:26:44,980
I'm like, what the hell is going on here?

451
00:26:44,980 --> 00:26:51,140
So, yeah, it took that for me to start learning, you know, through the help of the psychic mediums

452
00:26:51,140 --> 00:26:56,580
we deal with how to protect myself, you know, the house, my wife, daughter.

453
00:26:56,580 --> 00:27:00,880
Yeah, the last thing I want to do is bring something home and then have them, you know, being

454
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:01,880
bothered with stuff.

455
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,060
So, you know, it's a matter of telling them, okay, I know you're here.

456
00:27:06,060 --> 00:27:07,060
You're not welcome.

457
00:27:07,060 --> 00:27:08,060
It's time for you to leave.

458
00:27:08,060 --> 00:27:13,500
You know, very respectful because you know, it could be someone's mother, father, grandfather,

459
00:27:13,500 --> 00:27:14,500
whatever.

460
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:19,180
And also, talk to you like you and I are talking and just, you know, sometimes you have to give

461
00:27:19,180 --> 00:27:24,580
it demands and then go through the process of the staging every room, every corner of the

462
00:27:24,580 --> 00:27:29,140
room and, you know, there's certain ways of doing things and, you know, tell it to leave

463
00:27:29,140 --> 00:27:31,100
and it was no problem.

464
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:32,860
I never experienced it again.

465
00:27:32,860 --> 00:27:34,420
Does it usually leave?

466
00:27:34,420 --> 00:27:36,420
Like, well, is that normal?

467
00:27:36,420 --> 00:27:39,180
Like for it to go with doing all those steps?

468
00:27:39,180 --> 00:27:40,180
Yeah, it depends.

469
00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:47,140
They say, and like I said, I can't prove this, but this is what I've been told, you know,

470
00:27:47,140 --> 00:27:51,940
for people in that field, the psychic mediums that go to cleansing, you know, cleansing

471
00:27:51,940 --> 00:27:57,900
homes and stuff, they say you can't force an unwilling earthbound spirit to leave.

472
00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:01,340
Either things you could do to decrease its energy with staging.

473
00:28:01,340 --> 00:28:05,420
You might maybe force it out of the house, but it could possibly come back.

474
00:28:05,420 --> 00:28:08,460
This is why you got to continue.

475
00:28:08,460 --> 00:28:15,340
Melissa and Daniel from Tildeth, DOS Partt podcast, study the murders, myths and legends of the

476
00:28:15,340 --> 00:28:16,340
world.

477
00:28:16,340 --> 00:28:21,940
They bring revealing tales of restless spirits that drift through the darkness, like this

478
00:28:21,940 --> 00:28:26,860
one, yearning to find their way home.

479
00:28:26,860 --> 00:28:31,620
Hello, and welcome to Tildeth, DOS Partt.

480
00:28:31,620 --> 00:28:32,940
I am Daniel.

481
00:28:32,940 --> 00:28:35,060
And I'm his lovely wife, Melissa.

482
00:28:35,060 --> 00:28:36,300
Yes, she is.

483
00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:42,960
Now I usually tell Daniel and our 11 listeners true crime cases involving couples whose

484
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:47,540
love story eventually turned into murder.

485
00:28:47,540 --> 00:28:54,060
But today I'm going to share with all of you a haunting, the haunting of the Banff Springs

486
00:28:54,060 --> 00:28:59,580
Hotel, which is now known as the Fairmont Banff Springs.

487
00:28:59,580 --> 00:29:00,580
Banff.

488
00:29:00,580 --> 00:29:03,340
Say that without spitting.

489
00:29:03,340 --> 00:29:04,540
Banffa.

490
00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:06,540
I want to go.

491
00:29:06,540 --> 00:29:07,540
Is that expensive?

492
00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:08,540
Yeah.

493
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:09,540
Nope, I don't want to go anymore.

494
00:29:09,540 --> 00:29:16,820
This majestic hotel is located in Canada's Rocky Mountains in the heart of Banff National

495
00:29:16,820 --> 00:29:20,180
Park in Banff, Alberta, Canada.

496
00:29:20,180 --> 00:29:22,940
How many more times are you going to say Banffa?

497
00:29:22,940 --> 00:29:25,700
Hopefully no more because I can hardly say it.

498
00:29:25,700 --> 00:29:26,700
Oh my gosh.

499
00:29:26,700 --> 00:29:34,140
It was opened in 1888 by the Canadian Pacific Railway as a retreat for traveling businessmen.

500
00:29:34,140 --> 00:29:42,020
The original structure was a five-story wood frame and was able to accommodate 280 guests.

501
00:29:42,020 --> 00:29:46,460
The hotel drew its water from the nearby natural springs.

502
00:29:46,460 --> 00:29:51,660
The pipe system filled the hotel's pool with thermal spring water.

503
00:29:51,660 --> 00:29:53,020
Oh, that's kind of awesome.

504
00:29:53,020 --> 00:29:54,500
That sounds lovely.

505
00:29:54,500 --> 00:30:00,900
A luxurious oasis for only $3.50 a night.

506
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:01,900
Deal.

507
00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:06,580
What is it $120 a day to stay there?

508
00:30:06,580 --> 00:30:07,580
It is not.

509
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:08,580
I just looked it up.

510
00:30:08,580 --> 00:30:10,780
It's about $500 to $600 a night.

511
00:30:10,780 --> 00:30:11,780
What?

512
00:30:11,780 --> 00:30:12,780
But it is Halloween.

513
00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:13,780
It is October.

514
00:30:13,780 --> 00:30:14,780
Yeah.

515
00:30:14,780 --> 00:30:21,940
But in 1926, there was a devastating fire that burned the wooden structure to the ground.

516
00:30:21,940 --> 00:30:29,380
A new steel structure was built in its place using limestone rock from nearby Mount Rundle.

517
00:30:29,380 --> 00:30:37,380
The Banff Springs Hotel was built by the workmanship of hundreds of Italian stone cutters and Scottish

518
00:30:37,380 --> 00:30:38,880
stone masons.

519
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,540
So it's quite a structure now.

520
00:30:40,540 --> 00:30:41,540
It's gorgeous.

521
00:30:41,540 --> 00:30:43,700
Yeah, like it's not going to blow away.

522
00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:44,700
No.

523
00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:50,500
And this has helped to give the hotel its nickname of the castle in the Rockies.

524
00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:51,500
Nice.

525
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:53,380
It very much looks like a castle.

526
00:30:53,380 --> 00:30:59,060
In the last few decades, the hotel has given way to a few ghost tales.

527
00:30:59,060 --> 00:31:01,060
And I'm about to tell you those.

528
00:31:01,060 --> 00:31:02,940
That's good because I believe in ghosts.

529
00:31:02,940 --> 00:31:03,940
No, you don't.

530
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:04,940
No.

531
00:31:04,940 --> 00:31:07,900
Don't lie to these good people that are listening right now.

532
00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:08,900
That's fine.

533
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:13,700
He does not believe in the paranormal or anything of that nature.

534
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,420
No, so I would gladly stay in a haunted hotel because it's not going to be haunted and

535
00:31:17,420 --> 00:31:19,900
it's probably going to be my best night's sleep ever.

536
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:23,540
Well, first we have the ghost bride.

537
00:31:23,540 --> 00:31:29,180
She's been seen dancing in the ballroom or walking up one of the marble staircases.

538
00:31:29,180 --> 00:31:32,780
Her face shrouded behind a white veil.

539
00:31:32,780 --> 00:31:37,500
It is said that this spectre is the ghost of a young woman who is due to be married on

540
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:41,380
the hotel grounds in the early 1930s.

541
00:31:41,380 --> 00:31:47,460
When, as she was walking down the staircase to the waiting arms of her soon to be husband,

542
00:31:47,460 --> 00:31:52,660
her gown caught on fire by one of the many candles that adorn the stairwell.

543
00:31:52,660 --> 00:31:58,980
The bride stepped on the hem of her dress, causing her to lose her footing and fall forward

544
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:02,380
to the bottom of the marble staircase.

545
00:32:02,380 --> 00:32:06,940
The bride snapped her neck in the process and died.

546
00:32:06,940 --> 00:32:13,420
The ghost bride has never left the grand hotel and she spends her night searching for her

547
00:32:13,420 --> 00:32:14,420
lost love.

548
00:32:14,420 --> 00:32:20,400
Okay, so she not only catches fire but she trips, falls and breaks her neck while her

549
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:21,620
dress is on fire.

550
00:32:21,620 --> 00:32:23,620
It's like a triple threat.

551
00:32:23,620 --> 00:32:24,940
Holy crap.

552
00:32:24,940 --> 00:32:27,860
I already forgot, but when did the thing burn to the ground?

553
00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:28,860
1927.

554
00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:31,300
Okay, so this was after.

555
00:32:31,300 --> 00:32:32,300
This was after.

556
00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:36,540
This was in the 1930s.

557
00:32:36,540 --> 00:32:43,660
The bride's haunting is so well known that in 2014, a collector coin and stamp were distributed

558
00:32:43,660 --> 00:32:48,980
to commemorate her story, but she doesn't have a name, so that's interesting.

559
00:32:48,980 --> 00:32:56,820
Their resident ghost is known by his Christian name, a Mr. Samuel McColley, a Scotsman.

560
00:32:56,820 --> 00:33:04,060
Mr. McColley was the lead Belman at the hotel in the 1960s up through the 1970s.

561
00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:10,900
He loved the hotel so much that on his deathbed in 1975, Sam said that he would return to the

562
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:24,380
Banff Springs after his death to Haunt its halls.

563
00:33:24,380 --> 00:33:26,700
Please don't.

564
00:33:26,700 --> 00:33:31,780
Guests of the hotel have encountered this helpful and friendly bellhop, wearing an out-of-date

565
00:33:31,780 --> 00:33:36,020
bellhop's uniform with a strong Scottish brogue.

566
00:33:36,020 --> 00:33:39,340
But when offered a tip, he just vanishes.

567
00:33:39,340 --> 00:33:43,660
One of the most famous tales was that of two women who had locked themselves out of their

568
00:33:43,660 --> 00:33:45,140
hotel room.

569
00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:51,300
They headed down to the front desk and waited for the bellhop on duty for 15 minutes.

570
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,300
The women decided to walk back up to their room.

571
00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:59,740
Once they were back at their door, a man in an older-looking bellhop uniform approached

572
00:33:59,740 --> 00:34:03,700
them and unlocked their hotel room door.

573
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,900
They thanked the man and he happily walked away.

574
00:34:06,900 --> 00:34:09,180
I have a serious question.

575
00:34:09,180 --> 00:34:10,180
What's that?

576
00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:11,180
Okay.

577
00:34:11,180 --> 00:34:15,660
I come out in an old bellhop uniform, walk around the house.

578
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:16,660
What do you think?

579
00:34:16,660 --> 00:34:18,140
Is that work for you or no?

580
00:34:18,140 --> 00:34:20,180
I'm not giving you a tip for that.

581
00:34:20,180 --> 00:34:21,180
Really?

582
00:34:21,180 --> 00:34:23,180
Maybe.

583
00:34:23,180 --> 00:34:24,180
All right.

584
00:34:24,180 --> 00:34:28,740
Okay, but it kind of is scary that he can just get into any room, right?

585
00:34:28,740 --> 00:34:30,620
Yeah, because there's no privacy.

586
00:34:30,620 --> 00:34:34,180
No, there's no privacy at this hotel now.

587
00:34:34,180 --> 00:34:39,900
One is also seen in his old office on the mezzanine floor, which has been converted into an

588
00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:42,180
actual guest room.

589
00:34:42,180 --> 00:34:46,460
But the saddest tale of all is that of room 873.

590
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:48,820
I also read that it was room 875.

591
00:34:48,820 --> 00:34:51,420
Well, they're next door to each other.

592
00:34:51,420 --> 00:34:52,420
I think so.

593
00:34:52,420 --> 00:34:58,060
A young family was staying in the room and one night the husband and wife began arguing.

594
00:34:58,060 --> 00:35:02,500
The husband went down to the hotel bar and became intoxicated.

595
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:07,700
He grabbed a large knife from the kitchen and stabbed his wife and daughter to death in

596
00:35:07,700 --> 00:35:14,820
room 873 or 875 and then turned the knife on himself.

597
00:35:14,820 --> 00:35:20,220
Guests of the room have complained of hearing disembodied screams and shrieks in the middle

598
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:21,620
of the night.

599
00:35:21,620 --> 00:35:27,100
If they dared turn on the light, they would see bloody handprints on the bathroom mirror

600
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,980
that could not be washed away.

601
00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:35,860
Due to the paranormal activity within those four walls, management made the decision to

602
00:35:35,860 --> 00:35:38,940
brick up the entrance to the room.

603
00:35:38,940 --> 00:35:45,500
Recent guests who are permitted on the eighth floor have said that there is no room 873 or

604
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:50,940
875, even though the baseboard is cut where a door used to be.

605
00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:56,100
There is a light hanging over an empty space on the wall where a door should be.

606
00:35:56,100 --> 00:36:01,180
It is also said that if you knock on an area of the wall, you hear a hollow sound.

607
00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:07,940
A few guests have even reported seeing a young girl standing outside of a room, looking

608
00:36:07,940 --> 00:36:09,940
as if she is lost.

609
00:36:09,940 --> 00:36:15,380
Okay, so if you had a hotel, and allegedly there were a couple of rooms that were haunted,

610
00:36:15,380 --> 00:36:16,900
wouldn't you leave those open?

611
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:20,020
And then the word would get out that those are haunted rooms?

612
00:36:20,020 --> 00:36:21,020
Yeah, I'd charge more.

613
00:36:21,020 --> 00:36:24,820
You would get a line of people wanting to stay in those, I would.

614
00:36:24,820 --> 00:36:27,300
Yeah, I'd totally keep it open.

615
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:32,260
I did go down the Reddit hole and came across something very interesting.

616
00:36:32,260 --> 00:36:33,260
Okay.

617
00:36:33,260 --> 00:36:41,540
Reddit user TJ Smudger92 said that he used to work at the Banff Springs Hotel.

618
00:36:41,540 --> 00:36:47,060
TJ claims that all the ghost stories and paranormal activity are made up by the previous

619
00:36:47,060 --> 00:36:48,060
staff.

620
00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:49,060
There it is.

621
00:36:49,060 --> 00:36:55,060
The versions of the ghost bride were told to TJ by the hotel's former vice president.

622
00:36:55,060 --> 00:37:00,620
In 1986, a group of the hotel's colleagues set out to see who could come up with the best

623
00:37:00,620 --> 00:37:05,860
ghost story and one of them came up with the story of the bride.

624
00:37:05,860 --> 00:37:08,220
And it is still told today.

625
00:37:08,220 --> 00:37:14,740
Sam The Bellman is based on a real former bellhop who worked in the hotel for 20 years.

626
00:37:14,740 --> 00:37:18,860
The ghost was made up by the old head of the bell desk.

627
00:37:18,860 --> 00:37:20,940
It became a sort of joke.

628
00:37:20,940 --> 00:37:27,300
If a bag ended up in the wrong room, it would be blamed on Sam The Ghost.

629
00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:34,860
The haunted room, 873 or 875 cannot be found on the 8th floor any longer because the room

630
00:37:34,860 --> 00:37:36,980
next to it was expanded.

631
00:37:36,980 --> 00:37:38,940
I was totally going to say that.

632
00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:40,420
And compassing the room.

633
00:37:40,420 --> 00:37:44,740
Yeah, why don't they just expand the room next door into a bigger room and then if they

634
00:37:44,740 --> 00:37:47,780
wanted to, someone wanted a bigger room, they didn't have it available.

635
00:37:47,780 --> 00:37:50,860
Because I had read that on the 8th floor, the rooms are tiny.

636
00:37:50,860 --> 00:37:51,860
Yeah.

637
00:37:51,860 --> 00:37:55,220
So they wanted to have bigger rooms so they were expanding these rooms.

638
00:37:55,220 --> 00:38:00,460
If you happen to stay in the expanded room, you will be awakened all night by people

639
00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:03,100
knocking on the wall where the door used to be.

640
00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:05,420
Oh, no, that I could believe.

641
00:38:05,420 --> 00:38:06,420
That's annoying.

642
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:08,580
Because I at 100% would do that.

643
00:38:08,580 --> 00:38:11,780
You would knock on the wall?

644
00:38:11,780 --> 00:38:13,780
No.

645
00:38:13,780 --> 00:38:17,580
So is the Banff Springs Hotel haunted or not?

646
00:38:17,580 --> 00:38:18,580
Yes.

647
00:38:18,580 --> 00:38:21,660
No one knows for sure, but it sounds fun.

648
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:26,700
All right, we hope you enjoyed a little snippet of us.

649
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:32,180
Check out our podcast that till death do us part and be careful.

650
00:38:32,180 --> 00:38:34,420
For marriage is life's sense.

651
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:37,300
And divorce is always the better option.

652
00:38:37,300 --> 00:38:38,300
It is.

653
00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:39,300
Bye.

654
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:40,700
Bye, bye.

655
00:38:40,700 --> 00:38:46,380
We turn our attention next to two of the three hosts from unethical podcast.

656
00:38:46,380 --> 00:38:52,860
It's a lest and Christy specializing in a study of fear and the human psyche, but in ways

657
00:38:52,860 --> 00:38:57,300
that will have you laughing maniacally as you do so.

658
00:38:57,300 --> 00:39:03,380
Their stories tell of the evil entities lurking in the Inquisitos, our mouths curve up at the

659
00:39:03,380 --> 00:39:11,540
humor until we realize that the darkness they speak of still surrounds us.

660
00:39:11,540 --> 00:39:15,300
I'm Sarah Dinges and I'm from unethical podcast.

661
00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:17,300
And Celeste is here with me today.

662
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:20,180
Hi, I'm also from unethical podcast.

663
00:39:20,180 --> 00:39:27,340
And today I have a spooky little story coming from Tennessee in 1804.

664
00:39:27,340 --> 00:39:32,740
John and Lucy Bell started a farm near the Red River in Robertson County, Tennessee,

665
00:39:32,740 --> 00:39:34,500
which is right outside of Nashville.

666
00:39:34,500 --> 00:39:36,540
They had nine children at the time.

667
00:39:36,540 --> 00:39:38,300
Oh, it's a lot.

668
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:39,620
Right?

669
00:39:39,620 --> 00:39:45,100
Years after they had moved to this property in 1817, they began experiencing some

670
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:53,220
strange things and it all happened after John Bell shot at a dog like creature and it disappeared

671
00:39:53,220 --> 00:39:55,620
after he fired the shot.

672
00:39:55,620 --> 00:40:00,420
But then the children began seeing more strange creatures and hearing and explain noises

673
00:40:00,420 --> 00:40:06,820
in the house such as knocking on doors and windows, wings flapping on the ceiling, sounds

674
00:40:06,820 --> 00:40:13,460
of choking and strangling heavy objects moving around, chains hitting and dragging on the

675
00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:14,460
floor.

676
00:40:14,460 --> 00:40:19,500
And these people have ever seen a dog before because the wings and the chains, none of that sounds

677
00:40:19,500 --> 00:40:21,540
like a dog to me.

678
00:40:21,540 --> 00:40:24,860
No, I like the best description we have as dog like.

679
00:40:24,860 --> 00:40:29,740
So like maybe it was some demonic looking thing, but like it could have been a coyote who

680
00:40:29,740 --> 00:40:30,740
the fuck knows.

681
00:40:30,740 --> 00:40:31,740
Okay.

682
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:37,420
All right, Bat Yodi, the wild chained Bat Yodi, their native to Nashville, Tennessee.

683
00:40:37,420 --> 00:40:40,660
They escaped the caves.

684
00:40:40,660 --> 00:40:43,100
All right.

685
00:40:43,100 --> 00:40:44,100
Continue.

686
00:40:44,100 --> 00:40:49,740
And sometimes these sounds were deafening the family members that they were so loud.

687
00:40:49,740 --> 00:40:56,020
And originally they just referred to this as the spirit and eventually it became known

688
00:40:56,020 --> 00:40:58,140
as the bellwitch.

689
00:40:58,140 --> 00:41:03,680
And the bellwitch would even speak to the family in a disembodied voice and eventually it

690
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:11,900
became violent and it started beating and pinching and pulling hair, especially aimed at John

691
00:41:11,900 --> 00:41:14,220
Bell and his daughter, Betsy.

692
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:18,220
They were the two that the bellwitch absolutely hated.

693
00:41:18,220 --> 00:41:19,220
Yeah.

694
00:41:19,220 --> 00:41:23,460
This sounds like sibling rivalry.

695
00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:25,500
Mom, a job pulled my hair.

696
00:41:25,500 --> 00:41:26,500
No, I didn't.

697
00:41:26,500 --> 00:41:27,500
It was the bellwitch, Mama.

698
00:41:27,500 --> 00:41:33,100
It wouldn't mean it does sound like some shit that kids would have like stuck just to

699
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:35,540
like get out of it with the out of things.

700
00:41:35,540 --> 00:41:41,100
Sounds like they they broke Paws favorite smoking pipe and they were like, one thus

701
00:41:41,100 --> 00:41:47,100
got got thing bellwitch again.

702
00:41:47,100 --> 00:41:52,700
But Lucy Bell, wife of John Bell was least affected by the spirit.

703
00:41:52,700 --> 00:41:57,380
And the spirit even proclaimed her to be the most perfect woman living.

704
00:41:57,380 --> 00:41:59,940
After nine kids, that's no slow.

705
00:41:59,940 --> 00:42:00,940
Right?

706
00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:04,660
And I guess if you're going to have a spirit in your house, at least have it, think you're

707
00:42:04,660 --> 00:42:05,660
a bad bitch.

708
00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:06,660
You know?

709
00:42:06,660 --> 00:42:07,660
Right?

710
00:42:07,660 --> 00:42:10,380
Where are my complimentary spirits at?

711
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:17,100
And apparently the bellwitch would even sing to her when she was sick and just hang out

712
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:23,300
and care for her, which I don't know how much a spirit can care for someone, but hope

713
00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:28,100
she doesn't ghost her.

714
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:30,100
But I'm sorry.

715
00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:34,380
However, Betsy Bell endured the most torment from the witch.

716
00:42:34,380 --> 00:42:39,420
For years, the bellwitch tormented her and she wouldn't find relief from the spirit until

717
00:42:39,420 --> 00:42:45,220
she married her former school teacher and moved to Mississippi in 1820.

718
00:42:45,220 --> 00:42:46,220
Quick question.

719
00:42:46,220 --> 00:42:53,300
The mom is being like, caressed and having sweet nothings whispered in her ear and fed

720
00:42:53,300 --> 00:42:56,140
soup when she's ill by this spirit.

721
00:42:56,140 --> 00:43:01,780
But her daughter is getting like her hair pulled and being called a fat bitch and all

722
00:43:01,780 --> 00:43:02,780
that other stuff.

723
00:43:02,780 --> 00:43:08,380
And the mom is just like, she's taken a second to be like, which, how come you're torturing

724
00:43:08,380 --> 00:43:09,380
my daughter?

725
00:43:09,380 --> 00:43:10,900
I have no idea.

726
00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:18,100
And so Betsy was previously engaged to another man, but the bellwitch hated that man.

727
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:23,060
And so that's how she ended up with her former school teacher and marrying him and moving

728
00:43:23,060 --> 00:43:24,580
to Mississippi.

729
00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:28,500
And when she moved to Mississippi is when finally the torment stopped for her.

730
00:43:28,500 --> 00:43:33,660
That would have been a much better time to use ghosting as a pun for breaking up with someone.

731
00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:40,380
She ghosted her first lover, move John to her teacher, fired a dollar.

732
00:43:40,380 --> 00:43:44,460
The bellwitch referred to John Bell as old Jack.

733
00:43:44,460 --> 00:43:48,580
He wouldn't be so lucky to be able to escape this.

734
00:43:48,580 --> 00:43:56,860
And after years of physical violence and threats, John was bedridden on December 19, 1820.

735
00:43:56,860 --> 00:44:03,020
And his son, John Jr. was caring for him and went to get medicine bottles out of the cabinet

736
00:44:03,020 --> 00:44:04,020
to help his father.

737
00:44:04,020 --> 00:44:11,500
And when he opened the cabinet, he only found one vial of a mysterious liquid.

738
00:44:11,500 --> 00:44:14,900
And the bellwitch told him it's useless to relieve old Jack.

739
00:44:14,900 --> 00:44:17,140
I've got him this time.

740
00:44:17,140 --> 00:44:23,820
And upon hearing that, John Jr. threw the bottle into a fire and it burst in blue flame.

741
00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:27,260
And John Bell died December 20, 1820.

742
00:44:27,260 --> 00:44:31,980
And supposedly the bellwitch crashed his funeral service by obnoxiously singing drinking

743
00:44:31,980 --> 00:44:32,980
songs.

744
00:44:32,980 --> 00:44:39,740
Okay, this is the husband of the one that the bellwitch loved.

745
00:44:39,740 --> 00:44:40,740
Yes.

746
00:44:40,740 --> 00:44:41,740
Okay.

747
00:44:41,740 --> 00:44:42,740
Okay.

748
00:44:42,740 --> 00:44:48,820
So was she trying to smash or like, did she was her husband just not a nice man?

749
00:44:48,820 --> 00:44:50,340
No explanation.

750
00:44:50,340 --> 00:44:52,140
Oh, wow.

751
00:44:52,140 --> 00:44:54,340
Just the bellwitch hated John.

752
00:44:54,340 --> 00:44:57,180
Loved Lucy.

753
00:44:57,180 --> 00:44:59,820
Had a problem with a couple of the kids.

754
00:44:59,820 --> 00:45:00,820
Okay.

755
00:45:00,820 --> 00:45:03,540
So the bellwitch poisoned him to death.

756
00:45:03,540 --> 00:45:04,540
Yes.

757
00:45:04,540 --> 00:45:07,140
And then took all the medicine away so he couldn't be fixed.

758
00:45:07,140 --> 00:45:08,140
Yeah.

759
00:45:08,140 --> 00:45:10,300
And was basically telling John Jr.

760
00:45:10,300 --> 00:45:13,060
Hey, don't even try to save your father because he's going to die.

761
00:45:13,060 --> 00:45:14,060
Like I got him this time.

762
00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:15,540
I don't know, man.

763
00:45:15,540 --> 00:45:17,540
I don't know.

764
00:45:17,540 --> 00:45:19,540
Seems a little suspicious.

765
00:45:19,540 --> 00:45:23,780
I feel like I've heard this excuse before.

766
00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:25,700
Wasn't me a witch did it?

767
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:27,340
That leads me to the next point.

768
00:45:27,340 --> 00:45:36,900
So it was as best as it could have been in 1820, somewhat investigated and went court.

769
00:45:36,900 --> 00:45:40,980
And this is where Tennessee became the first date to contribute the death of an individual

770
00:45:40,980 --> 00:45:45,460
to the supernatural because even the court was like, yep, bellwitch.

771
00:45:45,460 --> 00:45:47,460
Ghost did it.

772
00:45:47,460 --> 00:45:48,980
Ghost did it.

773
00:45:48,980 --> 00:45:51,060
First or only.

774
00:45:51,060 --> 00:45:53,980
I think first and only.

775
00:45:53,980 --> 00:45:54,980
All right.

776
00:45:54,980 --> 00:45:58,420
Well, I would have expected more from Tennessee.

777
00:45:58,420 --> 00:46:01,060
So that's surprising.

778
00:46:01,060 --> 00:46:02,060
So that's it.

779
00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:03,060
Open and shut.

780
00:46:03,060 --> 00:46:05,700
Pretty cruel as far as state of Tennessee was concerned.

781
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:06,700
Yeah.

782
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:07,700
Bang the gavel judge.

783
00:46:07,700 --> 00:46:09,700
Ghost did it.

784
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:12,620
Everybody go home.

785
00:46:12,620 --> 00:46:14,220
Did they try hanging her?

786
00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:17,260
But they set up like invisible wire and they just like, whoo.

787
00:46:17,260 --> 00:46:22,700
Like the real fire like we're just going to burn the witch.

788
00:46:22,700 --> 00:46:29,980
Well, the bellwitch in the spring of 1821 told the family that it would be back in seven

789
00:46:29,980 --> 00:46:36,900
years, which Lucy and two of her children reported that it did come back in much of the

790
00:46:36,900 --> 00:46:41,660
same way that it had before as far as strange noises and all of that.

791
00:46:41,660 --> 00:46:46,860
But shortly after it returned, it left again claiming that it would haunt the bell family

792
00:46:46,860 --> 00:46:50,700
descendants again in 1935.

793
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:56,500
And while some people report strange happenings still on the family land, it's never

794
00:46:56,500 --> 00:47:02,020
been to the same severity as what the original bells reported in the 1800s.

795
00:47:02,020 --> 00:47:06,940
Today you can tour a replica of their cabin.

796
00:47:06,940 --> 00:47:11,020
And you can also tour the caves.

797
00:47:11,020 --> 00:47:16,100
And the caves is where people believe the bellwitch may have retreated to during the times

798
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:19,620
that it said it was leaving and it would be back or whatever.

799
00:47:19,620 --> 00:47:25,380
And so you can tour the bellwitch caves that are on the old bell property.

800
00:47:25,380 --> 00:47:26,380
Right.

801
00:47:26,380 --> 00:47:31,740
Because the life cycle of course was that and then bat yoddy and then which.

802
00:47:31,740 --> 00:47:36,220
So she was returning home to her birthplace, the caves where the bats are born.

803
00:47:36,220 --> 00:47:37,220
I assume.

804
00:47:37,220 --> 00:47:38,220
Right.

805
00:47:38,220 --> 00:47:39,220
Right.

806
00:47:39,220 --> 00:47:40,220
That all checks out.

807
00:47:40,220 --> 00:47:41,220
I have no questions.

808
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:42,220
Yeah.

809
00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:43,220
She came.

810
00:47:43,220 --> 00:47:44,220
She murdered a man.

811
00:47:44,220 --> 00:47:46,220
She left.

812
00:47:46,220 --> 00:47:48,060
As one does.

813
00:47:48,060 --> 00:47:50,620
Thank you guys for listening and happy Halloween.

814
00:47:50,620 --> 00:47:51,620
Happy Halloween.

815
00:47:51,620 --> 00:47:54,380
Thanks guys.

816
00:47:54,380 --> 00:48:01,740
Cassie and Caitlyn, the host of PNW Haunts and Homicides, descended deep into the unknown

817
00:48:01,740 --> 00:48:07,100
to bring tales of murder, the ghastly and the otherworldly.

818
00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:12,020
Their stories will reveal hidden horrors of the past and show us how the darkness waits

819
00:48:12,020 --> 00:48:15,060
to ensnare the curious wanderer.

820
00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:22,060
They'll also have you questioning every rustle in the leaves and every creek from the forest.

821
00:48:22,060 --> 00:48:24,060
Hi Cassie.

822
00:48:24,060 --> 00:48:25,340
Hi Caitlyn.

823
00:48:25,340 --> 00:48:26,340
Hi creepy people.

824
00:48:26,340 --> 00:48:27,340
Hello.

825
00:48:27,340 --> 00:48:28,340
Hello.

826
00:48:28,340 --> 00:48:32,500
This is PNW Haunts and Homicides.

827
00:48:32,500 --> 00:48:38,620
Can you imagine what it would be like if the frivolity of your youth, presuming that you

828
00:48:38,620 --> 00:48:44,420
were permitted any was cut short by a horrific event?

829
00:48:44,420 --> 00:48:49,540
For more than one family, that sentiment is all too real.

830
00:48:49,540 --> 00:48:55,580
Emanuel Fair was imprisoned in King County, Washington for nearly a decade for a crime

831
00:48:55,580 --> 00:48:58,580
that he says he did not commit.

832
00:48:58,580 --> 00:49:04,340
He told the Seattle Times about being incarcerated for so long without a conviction.

833
00:49:04,340 --> 00:49:07,100
I always knew I was going to get out.

834
00:49:07,100 --> 00:49:10,980
I just didn't think it would take as long as it took.

835
00:49:10,980 --> 00:49:12,380
10 years you said?

836
00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:15,540
He was imprisoned, yes.

837
00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:21,620
At the Valley View Apartments near Lake Samamish, #NeverBundey.

838
00:49:21,620 --> 00:49:26,860
Ooh, if you know, you know, Ikea, can all that.

839
00:49:26,860 --> 00:49:32,420
Emanuel was one of dozens of people, both other residents of the complex, as well as their

840
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:38,060
guests that were in and out of one of several apartment units during the Halloween party

841
00:49:38,060 --> 00:49:41,340
that took place nearly 15 years ago.

842
00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:45,020
Okay, can I just say that sounds like a lot of fun?

843
00:49:45,020 --> 00:49:46,020
Yeah.

844
00:49:46,020 --> 00:49:48,020
Like a whole apartment building party.

845
00:49:48,020 --> 00:49:49,020
Yeah.

846
00:49:49,020 --> 00:49:50,020
That sounds great.

847
00:49:50,020 --> 00:49:51,900
I think it sounds fantastic.

848
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,820
Reminds me like a dorm kind of situation.

849
00:49:54,820 --> 00:49:59,900
I think it very much had that kind of a vibe because it seems like there were a lot of people

850
00:49:59,900 --> 00:50:03,420
that were in their, you know, early to mid-20s.

851
00:50:03,420 --> 00:50:08,580
So maybe recent college grads or, you know, people kind of getting their lives started

852
00:50:08,580 --> 00:50:09,580
up.

853
00:50:09,580 --> 00:50:10,580
So great.

854
00:50:10,580 --> 00:50:12,500
No.

855
00:50:12,500 --> 00:50:17,300
The gravity of the situation didn't really hit until later though, when a young woman's

856
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:21,660
body was discovered in her very own bedroom.

857
00:50:21,660 --> 00:50:27,620
Arpana Jinaga was a 24-year-old immigrant who worked as a software engineer at a company called

858
00:50:27,620 --> 00:50:30,300
EMC in Bellevue.

859
00:50:30,300 --> 00:50:35,820
And though she lived less than a dozen miles from her workplace, she had been born nearly

860
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:41,300
a world away from the state of Washington in Hedira, bad, India.

861
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:43,860
That's a whole world away?

862
00:50:43,860 --> 00:50:46,620
I mean, yeah, basically.

863
00:50:46,620 --> 00:50:48,420
I feel like it's in the same world.

864
00:50:48,420 --> 00:50:49,420
Yeah.

865
00:50:49,420 --> 00:50:51,140
I know what you're saying though.

866
00:50:51,140 --> 00:50:53,980
It's probably a whole different world.

867
00:50:53,980 --> 00:50:54,980
Definitely.

868
00:50:54,980 --> 00:50:57,580
And most of her family was still there.

869
00:50:57,580 --> 00:51:03,940
She was an alum of Rutgers University, but her accolades didn't stop there because I'm

870
00:51:03,940 --> 00:51:09,660
pretty sure just getting into Rutgers is an accomplishment in and of itself.

871
00:51:09,660 --> 00:51:15,980
She had won an International Software Award and was a rising star in her Bellevue workplace.

872
00:51:15,980 --> 00:51:16,980
Oh, yeah.

873
00:51:16,980 --> 00:51:18,980
Oh, yeah.

874
00:51:18,980 --> 00:51:25,380
She was an active and friendly outgoing young woman, but she also had an eye for promising

875
00:51:25,380 --> 00:51:32,020
volunteer opportunities, such as those that she took on both at an animal shelter, as

876
00:51:32,020 --> 00:51:34,740
well as with the local fire department.

877
00:51:34,740 --> 00:51:37,100
Oh, well, isn't she the sweetest?

878
00:51:37,100 --> 00:51:38,660
I know.

879
00:51:38,660 --> 00:51:43,300
She'd lived in the area for less than a year and signed up to volunteer her time to both

880
00:51:43,300 --> 00:51:44,740
in the Redmond area.

881
00:51:44,740 --> 00:51:47,460
Oh, I know that area.

882
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:48,460
Yeah.

883
00:51:48,460 --> 00:51:56,980
Nearly two years later in October 2010, Emmanuel was placed in a Seattle holding cell for

884
00:51:56,980 --> 00:52:04,360
the 2008 sexual assault and murder of Arpana Jinaga.

885
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:08,900
At the time, they were continuing to gather evidence against him.

886
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:15,540
For reference, DNA found at the scene of the crime would be linked to three men in total,

887
00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:20,380
but only one would ultimately be charged in connection with her death.

888
00:52:20,380 --> 00:52:22,180
Whoa.

889
00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:26,960
So they ran a test on the DNA and it matched three different people?

890
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:35,720
There were a number of samples taken from various items in the apartment and that were discovered

891
00:52:35,720 --> 00:52:40,220
in another area, and we're going to talk about that in a second.

892
00:52:40,220 --> 00:52:45,760
Some of the samples matched one guy, some of the samples matched another.

893
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:49,240
There may have been some co-mingling of samples.

894
00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:50,240
Well, yeah.

895
00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,720
We don't like co-mingling of samples.

896
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:53,720
Don't love that.

897
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:55,240
It's not a good time.

898
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:56,240
No.

899
00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:02,200
The evidence used against him was collected from a dumpster on the complex property.

900
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:07,840
According to prosecutors, Emmanuel's DNA was discovered on multiple items that they believed

901
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:13,840
the killer touched, including tape in the apartment, mixed with Arpana's blood stains

902
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,680
on a red robe found in a dumpster.

903
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:17,680
Oh.

904
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:22,880
Also, on a swab taken from Arpana's neck.

905
00:53:22,880 --> 00:53:24,880
Oh, okay.

906
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,880
Yeah.

907
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:31,680
We've got some different places where it's being found, but we're going to come back.

908
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:38,160
Put a pin in the DNA evidence for our full-length episode in the PNW Haunts and Homicides Podcast

909
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,880
feed, because we're going to get to her.

910
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:41,880
I'll be there.

911
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,120
Okay.

912
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:51,080
When Arpana's body was found in her apartment back in 2008, a few specific sensory details

913
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:55,000
stood out to those working the case.

914
00:53:55,000 --> 00:54:02,680
The smell of bleach for one, but also how her bedroom seemed to be completely saturated

915
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:07,720
with an oily substance, which was later determined to be motor oil.

916
00:54:07,720 --> 00:54:09,560
Oh, ew.

917
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:10,560
Yeah.

918
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:11,560
Okay.

919
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,600
I imagine that's very smelly bleach and motor oil.

920
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,320
And what the fuck is going on with motor oil?

921
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,000
I had a lot of questions.

922
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,000
Maybe.

923
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,800
They think it was flammable and they wanted to like, push the plate.

924
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:25,800
Well, that's the place.

925
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:26,800
Well, that's the place.

926
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:32,240
Which would also later explain the burn marks on her bedroom carpet, as well as the satin

927
00:54:32,240 --> 00:54:35,360
sheets pulled from the garbage dumpster.

928
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:37,680
Absolutely horrifying.

929
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:42,480
They were burned, like, not chemical burns, like fire burns.

930
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,480
That's my understanding.

931
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:44,480
Ooh.

932
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:50,680
Yeah, because they say burn marks, the way that it's phrased in the source material, yeah,

933
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:57,920
does sound like fire burns, not like a, like, ooh,ouch, that's going to blister in a weird

934
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:58,920
chemical way.

935
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:03,400
But I guess they probably wouldn't say chemical burn if it wasn't on a person.

936
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,400
I would assume.

937
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:11,440
Neighboring tenants would also say that they heard what they described as muffled moaning,

938
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,760
but didn't indicate that they had any reason to be particularly concerned about the noise

939
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,960
at least on that night.

940
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:25,040
It does sound like a party house, so I'm sure noise is common.

941
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,400
Yeah, I mean, it's a Halloween party.

942
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:28,400
Right.

943
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:31,280
I feel like enough said, you know what I mean?

944
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:32,680
Except maybe not.

945
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:37,080
However, it wouldn't take long for serious concern to develop.

946
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:42,320
By November 2nd, our Arpana's family had not spoken to her for a couple of days.

947
00:55:42,320 --> 00:55:49,080
This was extremely unusual, as they typically spoke to her every day. Daily.

948
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:53,880
granting her father to ask a family friend that lived in the area to check in on her.

949
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,680
Whether they expected anything was truly wrong or just wanted to check on her in an abundance

950
00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:03,800
of caution, the scene that the family friend, along with one of our Arpana's neighbors,

951
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:10,560
walked into, was the absolute worst case scenario imaginable.

952
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,680
Unimaginable, but...

953
00:56:12,680 --> 00:56:15,560
And you said her family isn't local, right?

954
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:16,560
Right.

955
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:18,080
Oh, gosh.

956
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:21,400
They found Arpana at the foot of her bed.

957
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:28,320
Her autopsy would later show that she died of esphyxia by ligature strangulation.

958
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,800
No.

959
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:36,640
Ligature strangulation occurs when an external object is placed around the neck and provides

960
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:37,640
compression.

961
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:40,080
Oh, God.

962
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,600
The compression is usually applied to the neck by using the deceitant's own body weight

963
00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:51,680
in what would generally be described as either a partial or complete hanging.

964
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,960
Oh, my God.

965
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:54,840
That sounds violent.

966
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,400
Yes.

967
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:02,800
Her manner of death was obviously brutal, but within the report, it was also noted that

968
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:07,560
she had sustained multiple blunt force injuries.

969
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:14,800
Prior to leaving the scene, the killer or killers had used bleach, blue toilet bowl cleaner,

970
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:22,200
a common household type of soap, and motor oil to strip away forensic evidence linking

971
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,400
them to the crime.

972
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,160
Man.

973
00:57:26,160 --> 00:57:35,520
Traces of the various cleansers were found on Arpana's body, the carpet, her comforter,

974
00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:41,840
the bathtub, as well as the bathroom counter and her mattress from which the comforter had

975
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:43,680
been removed.

976
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:48,640
Now it's important to note that depending on who you ask, Arpana's killer was already

977
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,480
imprisoned, but has since been released.

978
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:58,640
Others believe that one of the other persons of interest is the likely killer, or even

979
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:04,160
that a combination of multiple killers is most likely.

980
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:12,680
Some have even speculated about other high-profile, violent maniacs such as Israel keys, and he's

981
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,440
not the only one.

982
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:19,760
Oh, usually that's a theory that could be easily dismissed, especially if we're not sure

983
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,480
that it's coming from an entirely reliable source.

984
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:31,360
However, in this case, it does seem that Israel keys was in fact in the Seattle area between

985
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:35,320
October 31 and November 2.

986
00:58:35,320 --> 00:58:41,520
Oh, that makes me really uncomfortable.

987
00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:42,880
Because it should.

988
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:49,840
So while it may be far-fetched, it's possible that you may not want to roll that one out entirely.

989
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:51,640
Okay.

990
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:59,720
Emanuel Fairs' trial would begin in February of 2017, more than six years after he had

991
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:06,400
originally been charged, and more than eight years after our Panna was murdered.

992
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:11,360
After the rest of the story and this episode's tarot reading, you'll have to join us on our

993
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:12,360
regular feed.

994
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:18,960
Well, I'm not really that interested in hearing the rest of the details, but I'm really interested

995
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:19,960
in the tarot.

996
00:59:19,960 --> 00:59:20,960
Yeah.

997
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:22,160
That's what I'm here for.

998
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:23,160
I know.

999
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,160
I know.

1000
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:25,160
To everyone listening.

1001
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:27,960
Have a creepy ass Halloween!

1002
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:33,960
Finally, we turn to Jamie and John from True Crime Cast.

1003
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,240
As we huddle close to the fire.

1004
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:44,080
They share tales of both visible and invisible terrors, of voices that invade your very soul

1005
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,760
that lead us into the heart of terror.

1006
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:54,640
Listen closely, and your heart will race with each whispered word.

1007
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:58,400
Hey, True Crime Cast fans.

1008
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:04,720
Jamie and John here are super excited to be a part of this Halloween collaboration.

1009
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,560
In darkness falls, we were excited to be contacted by Allison from Coffee and Cases, and we've

1010
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:12,680
got our own spooky little tale to tell here today.

1011
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:13,960
So get us rolling, John.

1012
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:20,000
We are going to be talking about Teresita Baza, who was born in 1929 in the Philippines,

1013
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:24,760
and was the only child to her parents who were well off and very wealthy.

1014
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:30,520
She went to college there and then moved to the United States in 1960 to earn her master's

1015
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:32,000
degree in music.

1016
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:38,740
However, she would become a respiratory therapist at Edgewater Hospital located just outside of

1017
01:00:38,740 --> 01:00:39,740
Chicago.

1018
01:00:39,740 --> 01:00:45,080
Fun fact, this was the same hospital that was the birthplace of both John Wayne Gacy and

1019
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:46,320
Hillary Clinton.

1020
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:47,320
What a club.

1021
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,320
Teresita was a kind, hard working lady and lived a simple life in which she kept to herself.

1022
01:00:52,320 --> 01:00:56,520
She wasn't the type of person to make enemies or make anybody angry.

1023
01:00:56,520 --> 01:01:01,840
On February 21st, Teresita worked a normal day, and then at 7 in the evening she got

1024
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:06,400
a phone call from a friend who was a doctor at Edgewater Hospital.

1025
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,560
They spoke about concert tickets and trying to sell some.

1026
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:15,000
They were on the phone until about 7.20 and she said a friend arrived and she had to go.

1027
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:16,920
She got another call at 7.30.

1028
01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,600
This was from Ruth Moib, who also worked at the hospital.

1029
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:25,960
They talked for about 20 minutes, and Teresita stated that she had to run because somebody

1030
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,680
was there to fix her television.

1031
01:01:28,680 --> 01:01:34,040
At 8.40 pm, neighbors and their apartments smelled smoke in their units and they opened

1032
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:38,080
the doors and saw smoke coming from Teresita's apartment.

1033
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:42,480
When firefighters got there, they found the source of the flames was a mattress that had

1034
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,240
caught on fire.

1035
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:49,520
When they had put out the fire, they found Teresita's body under the mattress, laying down

1036
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,520
with her hands over her head.

1037
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:58,480
She was in just a horrible situation and it very much seemed as if foul play was involved.

1038
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,160
Was Teresita lived alone?

1039
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,160
Please weren't able to find out if anything was missing from the home.

1040
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:05,280
Was this a burglary?

1041
01:02:05,280 --> 01:02:06,280
Was this personal?

1042
01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,120
Was this a sexual assault later on?

1043
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:11,120
We would find out that there was no sexual assault.

1044
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:12,920
But so many questions.

1045
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:19,000
Police did find a note that said get tickets for AS, AS being initials.

1046
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,560
Police didn't know who had come to repair the TV because Teresita hadn't told anybody

1047
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:28,760
a name or a company of anybody that was supposed to be coming to the house.

1048
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,940
So all police know is we have this note, we have these phone calls and we have somebody

1049
01:02:32,940 --> 01:02:35,560
fixing her TV and that's all they got.

1050
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:38,760
This case would basically go nowhere for months.

1051
01:02:38,760 --> 01:02:45,160
However, in August of 1977, six months after the murder, police would receive a fairly

1052
01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:46,960
strange tip.

1053
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:52,480
Another department around Chicago, Evans Town, called the CPD to ask if they had looked

1054
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:58,960
into a man named Alan Schahery, who also worked at Edgewater Hospital.

1055
01:02:58,960 --> 01:03:03,480
The police department had not looked into this man and of course they wanted to know why

1056
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:05,360
they were even asking.

1057
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:10,840
In Evansville, police department gave them the name of Dr. Jose Schau as someone that

1058
01:03:10,840 --> 01:03:14,960
they could call and speak with and that's when the story gets really spooky.

1059
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:20,440
Yeah, Dr. Schau's wife, whose name was Remy, also worked at the Edgewater Hospital.

1060
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:22,120
Dr. Schau worked elsewhere.

1061
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:27,120
So detectives went to their home to learn why they would even ask about Alan Schahery

1062
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:32,240
and what connection they had to Teresita.

1063
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:37,080
They seemed shy or kind of ashamed almost at first, didn't really want to talk, but during

1064
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:42,320
the home visit, Dr. Schau asked one of the detectives if he believed in the occult and

1065
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,520
demonic forces.

1066
01:03:44,520 --> 01:03:46,720
That's got to be a question as a police officer.

1067
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,520
You're there to get a report and get some facts.

1068
01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:51,280
That's got to put you on your heels, I would think.

1069
01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:57,080
Dr. Schau said that he's a physician, but he had seen some things in his life that science

1070
01:03:57,080 --> 01:03:59,600
just would not explain.

1071
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:06,600
He went on to say that he didn't know Teresita or even know about her murder until one night

1072
01:04:06,600 --> 01:04:14,080
when his wife, Remy, had become possessed by the spirit of Teresita, Bassa.

1073
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:19,160
Dr. Schau said that the first time he saw this was in their home, Remy had got up from

1074
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:23,980
the couch, walked into her bedroom, and was just sitting there on the bed, staring with

1075
01:04:23,980 --> 01:04:25,680
a blank face.

1076
01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:30,320
He asked her if she was okay, and she began speaking in a foreign language.

1077
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:35,400
This language was tagalog, and her voice was not his wife's.

1078
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:41,440
Now tagalog was a national language of the Philippines where Teresita and Remy are

1079
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:42,440
from.

1080
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:46,920
Obviously Dr. Schau was concerned for his wife, and just like a doctor, he wanted to

1081
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:49,280
make sure that she was oriented.

1082
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:56,800
So he asked her if she knew who she was, and the voice said, "I am Teresita, Bassa."

1083
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:02,040
The voice told him that she needed help solving her murder, and that the man who murdered

1084
01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:04,880
her was Alan Shawery.

1085
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:10,680
The voice explained that Alan showed up to work on the TV, but instead she was stabbed

1086
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:12,520
by Alan.

1087
01:05:12,520 --> 01:05:18,680
After Schau then said that once the voice left, Remy was back and had no memory of this

1088
01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:19,680
experience.

1089
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:24,520
When Dr. Schau asked Remy if she knew Teresita, she said that they may have met once during

1090
01:05:24,520 --> 01:05:28,760
orientation at work, but they worked different shifts and really didn't know each other.

1091
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,480
They certainly weren't friends.

1092
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:36,800
He stated that another time it happened in the middle of the night while Remy was asleep.

1093
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:42,240
The voice woke her up and asked why he hadn't gone to the police yet.

1094
01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:44,680
Dr. Schau said, "I am a scientist.

1095
01:05:44,680 --> 01:05:47,800
I need proof of this before I go to police."

1096
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,880
The voice then described two pieces of jewelry that had been stolen from Teresita's house

1097
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,480
by Alan the night of her murder.

1098
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:58,120
He went on to give those to his girlfriend.

1099
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:03,140
The voice also told Dr. Schau the names of relatives of Teresita who could identify

1100
01:06:03,140 --> 01:06:05,800
the jewelry as hers.

1101
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:10,600
Remy told the police that sometimes in the hospital locker room she would look around

1102
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:15,320
and see visions of Teresita with Alan's face behind her.

1103
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:24,280
All kinds of supernatural imagery and claims of voices, not our typical leads.

1104
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:28,920
They asked some of his co-workers about Alan and Teresita and one of them had mentioned

1105
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:34,080
that he remembered Alan saying that he was going to work on her TV at some point with

1106
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:40,600
this and the note from her home about having tickets to give to AS.

1107
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,160
Police paid him a visit as well as his girlfriend.

1108
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:46,560
At first he said he didn't know her.

1109
01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:52,200
But when confronted with the testimony about working on her TV, his story began to change.

1110
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:57,920
He stated that he had went there for just a short time but didn't have the right tool

1111
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:01,840
that he needed to fix the TV so he left fairly quickly.

1112
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:07,720
They asked his girlfriend if she had been given any jewelry and she showed them two pieces

1113
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:12,560
that were a perfect match to the ones that were described from the ghost and she stated

1114
01:07:12,560 --> 01:07:17,560
that he had given them to her in January as a late Christmas gift.

1115
01:07:17,560 --> 01:07:23,480
Police showed these pieces of jewelry to Teresita's family and they confirmed that they

1116
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:25,500
were indeed Teresita's.

1117
01:07:25,500 --> 01:07:30,760
You mentioned you got chills when you quoted the quote unquote ghost earlier.

1118
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,080
I just got chills that the jewelry claim was right.

1119
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:41,520
How on earth could Remy have known about this other than this being possessed as she claimed

1120
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:42,520
to be?

1121
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:46,200
Eventually Alan would confess when he was confronted with all this evidence.

1122
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,920
He said he got there that night and he killed her looking for money.

1123
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:55,240
He only found $30 and he took two pieces of jewelry so that's what her life was worth

1124
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,760
to him.

1125
01:07:56,760 --> 01:08:02,160
He was charged with murder and this trial in the public was nicknamed The Voice From the

1126
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:03,920
Grave.

1127
01:08:03,920 --> 01:08:08,760
Four weeks later there was a hung jury because of the ghost witness.

1128
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:15,160
A lot of the jurors while they thought he probably did this were so hung up on the unlikely

1129
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:21,640
hood of Remy knowing this from a ghost that they couldn't commit to a guilty verdict.

1130
01:08:21,640 --> 01:08:27,160
Before there could be another trial, Alan pled guilty for a shorter sentence of 14 years

1131
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:28,160
for murder.

1132
01:08:28,160 --> 01:08:34,160
After everything was said and done, he only ended up serving four years before he was released.

1133
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:40,160
That's the most insane part of this story and I know that I just said a ghost told somebody

1134
01:08:40,160 --> 01:08:45,800
who murdered her but the fact that he only got four years for this is mind blowing to

1135
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:46,800
me.

1136
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:47,800
It is.

1137
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:48,800
Yeah.

1138
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:54,040
They have this information I can't think of a logical scenario where she knew this unless

1139
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,320
somebody around the hospital was talking about it.

1140
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,000
I guess that's possible.

1141
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:00,440
But I think that's the story you go to police with.

1142
01:09:00,440 --> 01:09:05,040
Not the story of she was possessed by a ghost of a dead person that woke me up in the middle

1143
01:09:05,040 --> 01:09:06,040
of the night.

1144
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:07,840
They were reliable witnesses.

1145
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,080
Everything they said proved to be true though so it is what it is.

1146
01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:12,080
Yeah.

1147
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:17,320
I legitimately think that the ghost of Tarrasita helps solve her own murder and that we

1148
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,600
as society and the justice system were the ones that dropped the ball.

1149
01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,760
Again, we're thrilled to be a part of this Wind Darkness Falls collaboration.

1150
01:09:25,760 --> 01:09:30,760
You can find true crime cast anywhere you find your favorite podcast with new episodes

1151
01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,760
every Tuesday and Friday.

1152
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:36,560
Until next crime, this has been true crime cast.

1153
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:40,640
And happy Halloween.

1154
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:44,160
We look at each other and we know what we must do.

1155
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:46,380
We must listen to their stories.

1156
01:09:46,380 --> 01:09:53,680
We must learn about the darkness that lurks in the world both inside and out because that

1157
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:57,320
is the only way to escape it.

1158
01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:04,280
Be sure to subscribe to all 13 participating podcasts listed in our show notes so you

1159
01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:09,440
don't miss a single episode or tale of terror.

1160
01:10:09,440 --> 01:10:11,640
And again, listen.

1161
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:13,160
Remember.

1162
01:10:13,160 --> 01:10:15,760
Wind Darkness calls.

1163
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:16,920
Answer at your own payroll.

1164
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:26,920
[MUSIC]