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Resilience can also mean that we accept that bad things happen.

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Trauma happens, adversity happens, just even within ourselves, within relationships.

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It is just part of life.

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And so there's a healthy amount of disruption and repair that needs to happen.

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And it's how we navigate that, that healthy amount that we need to get a little bit more

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comfortable with.

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It's that discomfort that we need to get a little bit more comfortable with in order

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for us to make real progression.

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Welcome to the Executive Connect Podcast, a show for the new generation of leaders.

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Join Melissa R. Spaga as she speaks to a wide variety of guests that bring new insights into

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leadership, prosperity, and personal growth.

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While no one has all the answers, by building a community of open-minded and engaged leaders,

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we hope to give you the tools you need to help you find your own path to success.

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Welcome to the Executive Connect Podcast.

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I'm excited to have KINGA, VITA, here today to speak with us on Living Life in the Grey

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Zone.

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She is the founder of Execute Your Intentions that focuses on empowering others and turning

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bold intentions into impactful realities.

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She's a new author of the book Beyond Foundaries, Thriving in Life's Grey Zones.

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Welcome, KINGA.

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Thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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I'm so excited to be here.

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And I have to say that this is actually an anthology.

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It was a group effort.

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And I have a part of 27 authors.

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So I am just one chapter amongst many great talented people.

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So we're very excited about it.

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I love it.

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So let's jump right in and talk to me about what it means to live life in the Grey Zone.

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And why is it important to navigate life in the Grey Zone?

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Yeah.

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So the Grey Zone, you know, when I was approached about participating in this anthology,

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I was thinking, well, what exactly is the Grey Zone?

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How are we defining that?

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And I don't know if you've ever taken the Myers-Briggs test, but I took it, I think it was in

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my 20s and I was defined as an ESTJ.

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And as soon as I saw what the definition of an "J" was, is this black or white, we see

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things and I was like, "That fits me."

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And then really I started thinking, well, things are not always black and white, although I'm

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a pretty decisive person.

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And how does it fit when things are a struggle, when we're facing adversity or when we're

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not sure what to do?

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And so when I was approached with writing this book, how will we all interpret what that

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Grey Zone really means?

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And so Dr. Constance Leighlin had approached many of us and said, you know, we're all going

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through some type of adversity within our lives and we want to write a survival guide for

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others.

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We want to take a time in our lives when we have struggled and survived and think about

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our legacy that we want to leave and share with others around how did you get through that?

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Now really become passionate that we want to give people an opportunity to not have to

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struggle in the way that we have and to give them that survival guide.

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So that's what it's all about for all of these authors that participated.

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I love it.

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Now what are you from the women that have contributed to the book?

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What are some common challenges that people have in dealing with life and uncertainty in

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the Grey Zone?

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Oh gosh.

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I mean, I don't know about you, but I know that personally, whenever I have not known

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how to face a challenge, it's oftentimes you're not sure where to start.

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And you also don't even know who do I go to?

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Who do I trust?

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And I think that we have oftentimes really well-intentioned people, but they don't necessarily

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understand what your needs are.

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And so unless we have it within us to really understand what our current status and how

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do we check in with ourselves and have a good sense of where we want to go, like where

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we're trying to go?

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I think that so often we have a little bit of this ambiguity again.

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And so that's the real challenge is this transformation and struggling with, well, no one else

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can define that for us.

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And so these well-intentioned people that are giving us advice, really in place, how are

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they going to help you get there?

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And so we get all this information, all this advice coming at us.

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And gosh, they don't know.

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Only we can really look within ourselves to figure that out.

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I don't know.

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That's happened to you.

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I know, definitely.

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I think, you know, if I'm going from Texas to California, I need to figure out which way

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I'm not just going to get in the car and drive and figure out, you know, is it, do I

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turn left here or right here?

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For me, I like to know what's at the end and work my way back for us.

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Now I'm my head through, you know, Arizona, through New Mexico, through Marfa, but it's the

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gray zone along the way, but I need to know a direction where I'm landing, where I'm expecting

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to be at the other end.

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And similar, I'm similar personality to you where I'm kind of that black and white, you

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know, things are black and white.

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But I think living in the gray, from my perspective, it's a place of creativity.

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You're able to create different things or new experiences.

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So whether I go through Marfa, or I skip Marfa, I'm still creating with an end goal in

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mind.

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Yeah.

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So when you think of like uncertainty, like the gray, I think a gray is like an uncertainty

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area.

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How do you correlate it back to personal growth and professional development?

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Yeah.

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So really when we're trying to figure out how do I want to, just like what you're talking

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about, we want to figure out where through creativity, what's right for us.

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So to me, it is that exploration.

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It is that real exploration around, all right, I'm going to try something.

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I'm going to seek through curiosity lens.

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I want to understand does this feel good?

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No, it doesn't.

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All right.

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Well then let me take a little turn, right?

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And so it's that decisiveness and being okay with being decisive and then it's also okay

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for me to hone in on what feels right for me, this general vision that I have.

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You know, you're heading towards California.

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No, you're going there.

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But it's okay for me to accept that my path might look a little bit different and to reach

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my vision and I might not land exactly, but today I have the least information about where

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I'm going to end up, but I do have a vision and I just need to hone in on that plan as

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I get there and I need to honor myself.

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I need to really tap into who I am and the kind of people that I want to support me, the

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kind of people and the only way that we can do that is to be curious to build the type

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of support network that we want and to feel out what feels good and right and really kind

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of pivot along the way.

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So to me, that's what it's all about.

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Yeah, I think, you know, to your point, there's no book to life that says you have to do

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A and then B and then C sometimes people go from A to Z and they're like, what was I thinking?

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I need to go back to, you know, to C. And so I think there is in that great area that

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you're talking about.

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It's kind of like a mindset as well, like being okay with things not being black and

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not being white.

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You're in between.

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So like if you're pivoting from one career to another, there's going to be some great areas

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where you're uncertain and you don't know and you're uneasy.

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And so I think it's, you know, I think of kind of what you're saying is to lean into this

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gray side of yourself.

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And like you said, sometimes you're going to need to fire some of the people that are

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along the way, right?

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They're not adding value to your life.

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They might be subtracting value and sometimes you need to hire some new people, right?

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And they're going to help you along your professional journey.

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Absolutely.

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So have you experienced like just from your personal experience?

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Have you had an experience where you leaning into this gray zone has become positive for

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you or there's been a positive outcome?

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Yes.

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Absolutely.

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And you know, what happens?

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There's often times and it feels very cliche to say this.

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I'm just going to go ahead and put that out there.

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But when you least expected, I hate saying it because I feel so cliche.

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But honestly, when you feel that, hey, I'm being pushed, that might be your biggest opportunity.

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So I for so long had been day dreaming about leaving my corporate career because as

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I was navigating my my corporate journey, I just saw so many roadblocks for me to be able

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to make the impact that I wanted to make.

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And I realized that there were things that I could make a difference in the way that we

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worked together as communities.

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And I felt that, you know, if I were able to leverage the communities that are out there,

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the resources that are out there and bring leaders together from all kinds of different

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backgrounds together, what kind of, how could we solve some real problems?

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And so in early 20, 23, I started my own business and decided to make that jump from corporate

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into building my own business.

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And that is a major grave for me.

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And I had no idea, quite frankly, what my business is really going to shape into.

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And it's taken a while.

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And a lot of people are like, what exactly do you do?

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And at first I was like, maybe consulting, maybe because it was kind of just really for me.

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And I was a VP of program management, you know, it's a kind of introduction.

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And yeah, I didn't quite know because I hadn't had that experience yet.

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I'd been in corporate for so long.

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And so I was like, well, I need to figure out how, what I've learned over these years can

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transfer into just life into how can I help with this greater purpose that I'm feeling?

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And so I had to spend a good year really getting to know communities, community leaders, industries,

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people that I wanted to.

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So I had to lead through my curiosity.

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I had to understand how can I leverage what I've learned over the past, you know, many years

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through my adult coaching, how can I bring people together?

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How can I identify the kind of the communities and partnerships that I want so that I can figure

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out how I can best serve the type of people that I want to serve?

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So I love what you said.

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I've had to teach myself to be like, I'm a very A plus B person.

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I start my day at this time.

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These are my meetings.

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They're lined up.

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And I, to your point, I know that sometimes you have to retrain yourself how to do things.

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Like I've been riding a bike my whole life and, you know, it's, it's comfortable.

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It's natural.

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I'm a W2 employee.

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I know how to work through corporate America.

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But when you shift, like you mentioned, from being a W2 employee to owning your own business,

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so a whole different mindset shift and your, you know, your entire day is great, right?

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Like where do you spend your time?

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How do I move through my day?

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And so how do you, how do you, any suggestions for people like you mentioned at the beginning

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that are black and white, very type A that, you know, when they plan a trip, they plan

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it six months in advance.

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They know exactly what they're doing, they know what they're taking.

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They're very organized.

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How do we shift those people's minds to going from black and white, you know, normal normal

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to, you know, experience a little bit of the gray zone?

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Yeah, I think that it is a delicate balance of strategic planning, being okay with it, having

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your eye on the prize, thinking about accepting all the people around us and that, that saying,

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we have to take into account where everybody is, where they're at, where they're, their

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risk tolerance, I think, really understanding the people that we want to have on our journey

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with us, what they can, what they can kind of, you know, understanding their preferences,

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their preferences, accepting them for what they need and, and people's non-negotiables,

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having that conversation up front is so important, aligning around that.

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And so, honing in on your plans and saying, okay, you know, let's paint that vision together,

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let's create something together and make sure that we're really aligned around that in the

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same way.

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And as long as we're communicating effectively and keeping that alignment, I think that it's

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so, it's so helpful for everybody to really go on that journey together.

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And when we have journeys that we can experience together, then we really feel that force, that

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momentum, and we're able to accomplish so much more than we ever thought that we were able

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to and the momentum is just really powerful.

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Yeah, I think back to when, you know, a very big, great part of my life was when I left engineering

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and went into the casino gaming industry.

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I didn't know anyone, I didn't know the industry.

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It was all great for me.

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And it was a lot of, like you mentioned, the beginning.

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I had to connect with people, understand the industry, do my own research, get out to

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see other clients.

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And I really had to lean in, you know, just starting over and starting, starting fresh

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in New and I took a substantial pay cut to leave engineering to go into gaming.

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And, you know, that was great for me.

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You know, I'd build a certain way.

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And so I think, you know, one of the things I think that a word that comes to mind is resiliency

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and giving yourself time and grace to get through, you know, a change in your life.

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Whatever the great part of your life is leaving corporate America or having a baby or

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getting married or all these things that are net new and big changes in our life.

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And you hit on a good point, like connecting with people and communicating with people that

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have been through what you've been through.

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So people that have transitioned from a W2 job to a self-employed, being self-employed

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through their business.

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And so I think to your point, like connecting and creating that community, they're able

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to give you strength when you're uncertain and kind of living in that gray zone.

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I know there are people along my way in gaming where they're like, oh, you'll figure it

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out.

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And I'm like, okay, I'll figure it out.

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And I don't, you know, it had to use that boost of confidence from other people when

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I wasn't confident about knowing a net new space.

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So what do you think for people that are going through a gray part of their life, you know,

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as adversity and resilience tie into that, any thoughts on maybe how people can adapt to

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that?

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Yeah.

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And so resilience in itself, I think, is just, is an important word for us to break down

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for a second.

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And I'd love your thoughts on this.

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I think that, I think in general, this word is used so often where, personally, I felt

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that we are living in a really high changing time.

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And there's a lot of trauma that's happening.

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And I don't want to, I don't want to ignore that, right?

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And so we're going through tremendous change just as a society.

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And there's so much trauma that is happening across generations and within the work industry.

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And when we talk about that, I hear resilience getting used in a very loose way where people

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might feel like they just have to kind of toughen up in certain ways.

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And that, I think it would be dangerous because we're, we're expecting people to maybe just

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have coping skills around things that potentially are dangerous if we ignore the root cause of

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the problem.

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And that scares me.

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It scares me if we have decided that as a society that we become more resilient rather than informed

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around the traumas that we might be causing.

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And so I have a friend, Stephanie Limec, who is very big advocate and introducing a trauma

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informed society.

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And I think that that is one way that we can work towards understanding how to as a more

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educated society, how we can help each other.

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So I think that's one way to look at it is how can we all become better partners towards

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helping each other.

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And then I think the other way to kind of look at this is that that resilience can also

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mean that we accept that bad things happen.

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Trauma happens, you know, adversity happens just even within ourselves within relationships.

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It's life, right?

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It is just part of life.

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And so there's a healthy amount of disruption and repair that needs to happen.

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And it's how we navigate that.

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So that's that healthy amount that we need to get a little bit more comfortable with.

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It's that discomfort that we need to get a little bit more comfortable with in order

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for us to make real progression within ourselves within our relationships within our organizations

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or our communities.

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And that might be it's it's where that I think that we need to do, but I think that we need

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to take a harder look at that.

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So I'd love to know your thoughts on that because I think we're both passionate people in

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this area.

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No, I think, you know, when I think of resilience, I don't mean resilience without empathy.

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To go, I don't think any of us get out of out of life without some form of trauma or struggle

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or issue or problem.

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Like we're all dealing with, you know, when you're younger, you have different issues, different

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trauma as different struggles than as you get older.

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And I think the difference, which as I get older is I've gone through things which has boosted

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my confidence with co and how to respond and react to things.

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And I think, but still to your point, like, you know, not discounting people's emotion and

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say, Oh, tough enough, you should not act like this or, you know, definitely why are they

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acting that way?

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And what can we, you know, understanding why people are responding a certain way to things

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or maybe I'll use the word trigger, triggered for different comments or different things.

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And understanding and appreciate where they are, their life.

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And, you know, staying things in a way that's respectful.

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Like, yes, it's like human decency and respect.

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But, you know, basically we all were inside our home, not communicating with our immediate

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family.

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And so for the younger generations, I would say some of their communication skills are a

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little bit behind, right?

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They lost a year.

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And so when I think of resiliency, I don't mean resiliency and adapting without empathy and

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understanding.

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I think it go very close to each other because, you know, I've been through different things

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in my life.

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And, you know, if someone said, oh, you just got a tough enough, and you know, I'm like,

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okay, but then when you tell people to tough enough, they don't deal with stuff, right?

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They toughen up, you know, communicate, they, so it, it triggers different behaviors,

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too, right?

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So, like, and that can carry through your life.

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And so, and I'm so passionate about this because, and I'll, and I'll tell you why, because

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I think with the emergence of the layoffs, there was, or the emergence of coaching.

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And I'm calling it somewhat of a coaching crisis.

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And, and myself included that I wanted to, you know, start with a new career.

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I am so passionate about becoming an advisor to others.

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And so we have this, these coaches that are very well in pension, but they don't necessarily

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take the time to truly understand someone's current state and what they need before they

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say, oh, I know how to help you.

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This is what you need.

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They identify a target market, bucket you as a target market, and then say, I know how

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to fix your problem.

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And so because of that, I'm, I'm concerned that there is a certain amount of, you know,

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probably that people could go through and say, all right, well, you need coaching for this.

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And because of that, they, they're pulling them into some kind of program that that person

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doesn't actually need.

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And it doesn't actually solve that person's problem.

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And because that coach only understands how to solve one problem.

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And so they're getting pulled into different directions because they don't know how to navigate

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their ambiguity.

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And so I think that that is, that's what I'm seeing happen a lot is that people are going

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through this ambiguity of their life.

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I'm not sure where I want to go.

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A well intentioned coach who understands how to solve a problem, season need of paid, there

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is somebody going through this ambiguity in life.

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And so I'm going to pull you in this direction.

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And so they're, they're kind of going, and then that person ends up somewhere and goes,

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well, wait, that's not exactly where I wanted to end up.

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And so, oh, well, I led you here and you said you wanted this.

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Yeah, so for just a quite look where I wanted to end up.

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And so we're having, we're getting a lot of pulls.

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And so in the end, we're not really tapping into allowing that person who originally was

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struggling with something ambiguity, they'll their own personalized plan.

338
00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:11,540
So that's a good point.

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00:25:11,540 --> 00:25:13,700
So I, first of all, I love coaches.

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I don't think I've done, I've, from a young age, I've had coaches starting with my parents,

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00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:22,500
athletic coaches, teacher coaches.

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I am a big fan of coaches, mentor, mentors, there's many different words for them, gurus.

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But I think now, my opinion, we've, we've migrated to a place where everybody wants everything

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immediately.

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I want my dry cleaning, I want my food, my Amazon package at my doorstep.

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And so coaches really have to make progress quick for people.

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Otherwise, people get lost in the process.

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And I think, you know, no coach are going to sign up and in one session, you're going to

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hammer out all your details, you're going to have this dream like it takes time and work.

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And, and I think the, the one thing I see with people in the coaching space is they do run

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through it quick.

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They run through it quick because they have to because their clients want all their problems

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to be solved just like, you know, we see on social media, this one pills going to make everybody

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their ideal weight overnight.

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And so I think we've become a society that wants everything today without the actual work.

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And if you've had some challenges in your life, it may take time to go through and sort

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through it.

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And so I think we're going to need a coach that can, you know, pull back those layers.

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Coaching is about pulling back layers, right?

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And people are not going to show up to their first day with a coach and say, you're in my

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whole life story.

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Now tell me how to fix my life because that's not coaching.

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That's telling people what to do with their life.

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People need to lead themselves to their answers.

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And, and I think that is the key part is listening to your clients and understanding, you know,

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why is there objection only money?

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00:27:06,460 --> 00:27:08,700
Why is there objection only a title?

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Why is there objection?

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Whatever their objections are, understanding why, why do they want much?

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Maybe it's a sense of security for them because their whole life they never have security.

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00:27:20,380 --> 00:27:24,900
Maybe they were homeless and, you know, we don't know what people's situations are.

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00:27:24,900 --> 00:27:32,380
And so I would agree that coaching is, coach, if a coach gets on a phone and says, hey,

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we need to do step one and then step two and then step two and then three and then you tell

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your boss, you know, this, that might not be the right thing for them like you said.

375
00:27:42,220 --> 00:27:43,220
Right.

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00:27:43,220 --> 00:27:49,140
And I think for me and what I'm hoping that my clients would see that's different about

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00:27:49,140 --> 00:27:57,620
what I'm offering is that it's so important that upfront, we talk about your current state,

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00:27:57,620 --> 00:28:05,300
also the transformation that you are really hoping to achieve and also acknowledging that

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00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:13,060
you know the least amount of information that we have just a vision and let's continue

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00:28:13,060 --> 00:28:19,620
to keep that vision very clear and aligned and then build, and this is where my project

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00:28:19,620 --> 00:28:25,980
management background comes into help in use is that we build that vision so we keep our

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00:28:25,980 --> 00:28:31,980
eye on the prize, the eye on the target, but that we build an actionable plan that we

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00:28:31,980 --> 00:28:37,980
can continue to refine and iterate as we go and you learn more about yourself and you learn

384
00:28:37,980 --> 00:28:44,100
more about, you know, the skills that you want to develop and you learn more about the communities

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00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:45,660
that you want to engage with.

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And as you refine and go, you're honing in.

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And so you're getting closer and closer to your vision, you're getting closer and closer

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00:28:54,420 --> 00:29:00,700
to the transformation that you genuinely want for yourself so you're literally creating

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00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:02,180
what you want.

390
00:29:02,180 --> 00:29:04,460
Yeah, absolutely.

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00:29:04,460 --> 00:29:09,500
I think, you know, I was just thinking when you were mentioning that, I'm like, "What is

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my longest coach I've had?"

393
00:29:12,180 --> 00:29:16,180
And I was thinking back to my childhood, "I had a coach for three years.

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00:29:16,180 --> 00:29:23,940
I saw this man every week for three years to get better at a sport I was playing and

395
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:28,220
constant work, constant work, and in the minute that I fixed whatever I was working on,

396
00:29:28,220 --> 00:29:32,220
then something else popped up and then I go switch strategies to work on that."

397
00:29:32,220 --> 00:29:37,940
And so I think to your point is really, you know, the PM role I have to imagine is fantastic

398
00:29:37,940 --> 00:29:43,340
in coaching because you're dealing with a lot of different pieces and a lot of different

399
00:29:43,340 --> 00:29:44,340
goals.

400
00:29:44,340 --> 00:29:49,100
And, you know, I think like we can all be coaches and mentors to other people for certain

401
00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:50,900
aspects of our life, right?

402
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:54,060
If you raise kids, you can be a mentor, raising kids.

403
00:29:54,060 --> 00:29:57,860
If you've, you know, gone through a divorce, you could be a mentor on divorce.

404
00:29:57,860 --> 00:30:02,980
And if you've transitioned from being a W2 employee to being, you know, having your own

405
00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:09,780
business so we can all be coaches, but I do like what you said that you listen and understand

406
00:30:09,780 --> 00:30:18,020
your clients because that is key to really good relationships with people is non-transactional.

407
00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:23,340
It is, it is an understanding of both ways, right?

408
00:30:23,340 --> 00:30:26,740
You have to understand what the client expectations are.

409
00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:28,780
They need to understand what you can deliver.

410
00:30:28,780 --> 00:30:31,220
And realize that we're all a work in progress.

411
00:30:31,220 --> 00:30:35,860
We're all working towards different things at any given time.

412
00:30:35,860 --> 00:30:39,660
And understanding that it takes time is key, right?

413
00:30:39,660 --> 00:30:41,300
Yeah, absolutely.

414
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:47,940
It is, like, I can't even imagine the number of times where, and this is what I loved

415
00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:54,340
about being a project manager was, and I told my team since all the time and my boss and

416
00:30:54,340 --> 00:31:01,820
everybody in the entire organization was, my job is to keep an eye on the prize, which is

417
00:31:01,820 --> 00:31:05,620
the goals, the vision and the people.

418
00:31:05,620 --> 00:31:06,620
That's it, right?

419
00:31:06,620 --> 00:31:14,460
It's to be an unbiased, completely unbiased perspective so that I'm protecting everybody

420
00:31:14,460 --> 00:31:17,060
and what we're trying to do.

421
00:31:17,060 --> 00:31:24,700
And when I could take that lens, then I'm so focused on the interactions, the success of

422
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:26,020
everybody and everything.

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00:31:26,020 --> 00:31:32,620
And so I was very protective, and I took this kind of protective role where I wanted to

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00:31:32,620 --> 00:31:37,260
make sure that everybody's voice is heard, the right people are in the room, you know, that

425
00:31:37,260 --> 00:31:38,260
kind of thing.

426
00:31:38,260 --> 00:31:46,820
And so I have a trained eye for protecting what people are actually looking for, what they're

427
00:31:46,820 --> 00:31:51,300
trying to achieve, what they're trying to get out of things.

428
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:57,260
I know how to ask those provocative questions to make sure that we're combing in on what

429
00:31:57,260 --> 00:31:58,980
they really want.

430
00:31:58,980 --> 00:32:02,620
So it's, I love it because it's really exciting.

431
00:32:02,620 --> 00:32:03,980
You just shine through with it.

432
00:32:03,980 --> 00:32:06,780
So I just kind of a couple things.

433
00:32:06,780 --> 00:32:08,860
Maybe one last question.

434
00:32:08,860 --> 00:32:15,660
Maybe your top three specific tools or practices that people can embrace when living their

435
00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:21,580
life through the gray zone and finding whatever it is they're looking to find.

436
00:32:21,580 --> 00:32:25,780
I think in the moment, constantly reprioritized.

437
00:32:25,780 --> 00:32:30,940
So be very conscious of the fact that you're doing strategic planning.

438
00:32:30,940 --> 00:32:38,100
So keeping your focus on what you overall really want to do, but also taking that actionable

439
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:39,100
like thing.

440
00:32:39,100 --> 00:32:45,620
And so you want to be prioritizing and weighing the priorities between those two activities.

441
00:32:45,620 --> 00:32:47,620
And but being very conscious.

442
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:52,100
And so I guess that third element is like conscious decision making.

443
00:32:52,100 --> 00:33:00,620
Be very conscious that you are doing an iterative planning against strategy, tactical and being

444
00:33:00,620 --> 00:33:06,580
conscious in your prioritization, value your community, make sure you have the right resources

445
00:33:06,580 --> 00:33:11,820
and people supporting you along the way because we can't do it alone.

446
00:33:11,820 --> 00:33:13,820
Absolutely.

447
00:33:13,820 --> 00:33:17,540
Thank you so much, my friend, for all your fabulous insights.

448
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:19,540
I'm so excited about your book.

449
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:22,540
I'm so excited for you and your new business.

450
00:33:22,540 --> 00:33:27,100
Tell our listener as how they can connect with you and learn more about what you're doing.

451
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,740
Well, I made some great updates on my website.

452
00:33:29,740 --> 00:33:31,140
So I'm so excited about that.

453
00:33:31,140 --> 00:33:33,740
It's on executeyourintentions.com.

454
00:33:33,740 --> 00:33:35,260
And I am very active on LinkedIn.

455
00:33:35,260 --> 00:33:37,140
So please connect with me.

456
00:33:37,140 --> 00:33:40,300
I would love to have some more friends.

457
00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,820
Thank you so much for being here today.

458
00:33:42,820 --> 00:33:45,740
And that's the Executive Connect Art Apps.

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Thank you.

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You've been listening to the Executive Connect podcast.

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If you have questions or ideas on how to bring leadership to your next level, email us at

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executiveconnectpodcast@gmail.com.

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And don't forget to subscribe so you can catch every new episode.

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Until next time.

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