[Pause]
Thanks, Steve. Good to be here.
Yeah.
I brought one of the greatest records ever made.
Has to be one of the 10 greatest records ever made.
The Who's Who's Next? It's just an extraordinary record.
One of those records I keep going back to and one of the few records that you can actually listen to every single song.
And it's just unbelievable.
The Who made a lot of great records, but that one was their high water mark.
Back in, I think it was '78 or '79, I had the amazing honor and pleasure to interview Pete Townsend.
I flew to New York from LA. I was living in the Hollywood Hills.
And he was doing some press for the kids are all right.
The movie, I think, Al may just come out.
So he was doing some press. And yeah, man, so I walked into the room and there's Pete Townsend.
I mean, I had like 50 pages of questions. I mean, so much I wanted to talk to him about.
But one of the things I knew I had to talk to him about was the Who's Next record.
So we're talking and we get up to the Who's Next record.
You know, I go, I go, Pete, you know, you guys are amazing, but for me, who's Next was kind of like the greatest record you ever made.
That was like the high water mark for me.
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree.
So to hear him say that was what was was pretty amazing.
Just all those elements just came together so amazingly for them.
You know, I mean, we think of the Who is being this extraordinarily heavy band.
I mean, they were live, they were heavy band, you know, they were a loud band.
But you know, you listen to that record and a lot of those songs are built around his acoustic guitar.
You know, going mobile and behind Luiz, which kind of segues into an electric section there.
But a lot of that stuff is just acoustic guitar and he was just the master at blending acoustics and electric.
Jimmy Page was also pretty amazing at that.
But Pete was just remarkable, you know.
And what made that record all the more remarkable was it wasn't filled.
In fact, there really aren't many kind of guitar solo, solo sections.
Pete wasn't that kind of guitar player.
You know, there's a, you know, the violin solo on bottle, Riley, you know, little kind of fill parts, you know.
But it's not like you're listening to a purple record, right?
Or a Zeppelin record where there's a break in Jimmy Page is doing a solo in black more, you know, or, you know, rock.
Yeah.
It's just unbelievable, you know, and you really hit it as an ensemble band those sections were there playing together.
Like, you know, some people will say Zeppelin were the greatest and, you know, the stones, the who were the greatest band in my opinion that maybe ever was.
You know, when they were playing together, that ensemble thing, they were just, they were just unbelievable.
You know.
Yeah.
No, exactly, man.
You bring up some excellent place, look, man.
I love cream.
I mean, you know, clapping with cream was just unbelievable.
I'm a huge Jack Bruce fan, you know, and I loved this solo work after that song, "Spirit Taylor" is singing, you know, and, you know, "Chella playing," I mean, he was amazing.
Baker, nobody played like that.
The way he approached those songs, you know, and he kind of turned that beat around in politician, you know, you're trying to follow this.
They were amazing, you know, and Jack is one of my favorite bass players.
John Paul Jones is one of my favorite bass players, you know, Tim Bogart, Chris Flier, but I really believe that all of them, oh and nod to John Etwistle.
And as you so rightly bring up, yeah, Keith was all over the place, man, his timing was not good, which is why on whose next it's so amazing, because he was kind of rained in.
I think Glenn Johns came in to work on that, and so he was able to, you know, kind of corral Keith, you know, and yeah, that stuff that he did with Etwistle was amazing.
And John, you know, was so amazing about him, because Keith really wasn't the timekeeper, really, it was John.
You know, so John is not only bass player, he's the timekeeper, he's sort of a second guitar player, the way he plays those lines, you know, he's a percussionist, the way he plays, you know, it's kind of part rhythm guitar.
It was just amazing.
And who were one of the, excuse me, one of the few bands, bands are always either amazing on record or live, the who were incredibly good both.
You know, you think about Zeppelin, look, they had their moments live, but a lot of those live shows, man, they were, you know, long solos, and, you know, so in my mind, you know, Zepp was a studio band, you know.
But the who, my God, you know, live leads was amazing. So they were just astonishing live band, astonishing studio band.
Um.
I'm here.
Yeah, that's interesting.
You know, you don't think of a guttory as a guitar player.
I mean, I don't know if he ever played, I can't imagine he ever played guitars on who
records.
I mean, I saw the who of few times.
I actually saw the who of the first time in 1966 was unbelievable.
Yeah, there was a store called Whitefront, which is kind of like a predecessor to like
a, it's like a big department store.
And they had like a little music section where you could buy albums.
And if you bought certain albums, you got the tickets, you got these two tickets inside
the album to this show that was being put on at the Hollywood Bowl.
And it was the who, the new animals, you know, kind of that Monterey period, a bag called
"Sop with Hamill," "The Everly Brothers."
It was just one of these shows, you know, and I went there with my buddy, I remember,
I bought, I'm trying to remember which record I bought.
He bought the "Mothers of Invention," the first one, "Freak Out."
I'm trying to remember what I bought, you know, but there was one ticket in each record.
And it was kind of drizzling that day and literally, I think the ball holds, I don't know, 8,000,
12,000 people, I mean, it's huge.
And it was like 2,000 people there.
There was nobody there, so literally we were sitting like in the front row.
It was just unbelievable.
My point being, yeah, I saw the who several times.
I don't think I ever saw "Dulltree" play guitar.
Maybe in some of the more recent tours he might have pulled out a guitar play.
I can't speak to that.
But I'm talking about...
Yeah.
You know, I mean, I only interviewed Pete that one time, you know, and I think I did ask about some of the earlier records.
Again, I had so much I wanted to talk to him about, you know, and I think he mainly wanted to talk about, you know,
the kids are all right, which I did, you know, was an amazing record.
So, yeah, I mean, I probably did hard to remember specifically.
I was also able... I actually interviewed all four guys.
I interviewed "Dulltree".
There was a film, a documentary that came out about one of the who's performances,
and they had some kind of a premiere, and "Dulltree" was there.
So, I literally had like 10 minutes, you know, they kind of shuttled riders in our now-so I talked about it for like 10 or 15 minutes.
It really wasn't a cover interview.
But at least that was the same room with them.
But I did interview John Eppelso, twice.
I think the first time was in '74.
It was the cover of the guitar player, for guitar player.
And he was just amazing.
I mean, God, he was just... he was open and, you know, just willing to talk about anything and very self-facing.
You know, the thing that was also so amazing about him is that he really was, you know, if I can quote the title of my Van Halenberg,
he really was a tone taser.
I mean, John was always experimenting with different bases, you know, man, and he was building his own bases.
And he was trying different sound setups and different speaker configurations.
So he was always after that, you know, obviously the John Eppelso based tone is a huge part of the who.
And I also had the amazingly unique opportunity to interview Keith Moon.
That was unbelievable.
That was right around the time he did both sides of the moon or two sides of the moon.
That solo record he did, which is a pretty terrible solo record, you know, Keith was like singing, you know, I think he did a couple of beach-boy songs, you know,
just an excuse for Keith to go out and, you know, you know, just...
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, he was pretty amazing. He was crazy, man, but what I really sense from all three of those guys was they're absolute and complete and utter devotion to the who.
They loved the who, you know, he said, you know, the who's everything. I loved them, you know.
So that was pretty amazing to hear that, you know.
I mean, that's a good question, man. I mean, I had a big record collection back in the day.
Even before I started writing, I mean, I was collecting records. I probably had two or three thousand records before I started writing.
And then as a writer, when you start writing, you get on all these mailing lists, you know, from the label of this.
So every month, you're getting their, you know, the releases, you know, so for mourners and capital.
I don't think I was, like, waiting for that record to come out. I mean, certainly I must have heard about it.
I had some friends who were big who fans and maybe they had heard it. But I mean, the first time I heard it, I thought, oh my god, this is just a very difficult one.
And Tommy was amazing, but, but, you know, Tommy, I mean, Tommy, I don't know, man, it's hard to compare those two records because they're so different.
But I just heard who's next and I thought, oh my god, this is like, it is writing and the vocals, you know, you think about Dolce's vocals and the harmonies with the people.
And the harmonies with Pete and John singing those harmonies, I mean, my god, they were amazing singers, you know, and just the sound of the record and it was, it was amazing.
So yeah, I can't remember exactly how I heard about the record, but I knew this as soon as I heard it, like, oh my god, this is the greatest true record I've ever heard.
This is one of the greatest records I've ever heard, you know.
And, yeah, I was sort of into that life house thing, you know, not seriously, but, yeah, I was aware of that.
And, you know, you go back to those life house tracks now, you know, and you hear the songs on whose next, and you can hear where they started.
And, they were amazing, you know, I mean, going mobile, I mean, that sounds like a, it's like a bad country song.
I mean, the whole feel with it, you know, and it's all acoustic and it's like three times as fast.
And one of the big changes, is you know,
[singing]
E minor and I think it's a C in the Hoos next-
but there's no C, it's just D-D E minor and Pete
and hearing it, you know, you sound themselves,
you know, wait, there's something missing, it needs a change.
For him to hear that- to me it's just genius because it makes the whole song.
It's just up everything, you know?
And I mean, lyrically, you know,
you think of that one line, I mean, air conditioned gypsy?
I mean, to me, that's worthy of any John Lennon, any of Carton.
I mean, that's just up-
the imagery for everything.
I mean, it's just brilliant in my estimation, you know?
Yeah.
[silence]
Uh-uh.
[silence]
Uh-uh. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
[silence]
Uh-uh.
[silence]
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, yeah, I mean, behind blue eyes, I mean,
I mean, is there a greater song?
I mean, come on, man, that thing rings up there with the best of the Beatles and my estimation.
The Stones- it's just such a timeless song.
And it's such a simple song, really.
You know, Pete's songs weren't that complex, you know?
But it's just, you know, again, yeah.
[silence]
[BLANK_AUDIO]
Absolutely, you know, and I don't think Daltry gets as much credit as he should as a singer.
You know, you think about rock singers, it's always the same guys, you know, Robert Plant, and, you know, I mean, Freddie Mercury, and, you know, Jagger, but, you know, Daltry, my God, he was an amazing singer.
You're right, man, he was so emotive.
I remember one of the things, I remember this so clearly, and someone we were talking about, you know, the who obviously,
and he said, you know, nobody can sing the who songs better than me.
It was just such a simple, you know, thing to say, but it's like, oh my God, you know, and Pete is obviously an amazing singer, but, you know, he was right, you know,
nobody could sing the who songs better than you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there are, I mean, he's an amazing singer.
You know, and I'm a soldier.
Yeah, definitely, absolutely, you know, he'll always sing like a bridge section or, you know, a B-section thing.
Yeah, it's amazing.
And, and, etwistally, you know, my wife, I mean, he's a great singer as well, you know, and Keith, you know, I don't know if Keith never sings live, really, but, you know, Keith could probably,
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, you know, I'm, I mean, like I said, I used to have a big record collection. I don't have that collection anymore.
And I'm ashamed to say I listened to music on my phone, but I meant the gym all the time.
And inevitably, I'll, you know, go looking for records and the who's next to come up, who's next will come up.
Man, I'll go, I'll just go from track one, I'll go straight through.
You know, it's just a remarkable record.
I don't know if it gets enough attention, you know, I don't know if it's on the, you know, 10 greatest records of all times, which I mean, you know.
Yeah.
It's possible. That's an excellent point, man.
Yeah, you think of, you know, you keep, I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah.
I agree. Yeah, no, I agree.
And so you think also something that we haven't touched on, you know, a piece of synthesizers.
You know, so here's this man, no guitars, right? And he comes up with those amazing synthesizers.
the sessions, my God, nobody did that, you know? And then, you know, get fast forward
a little bit, you know you think about Edward Van Halen, you know, bringing Sim Sim
to jump in that kind of thing. You know, Edward was a huge hoot fan and there was talk
about, at one point, Edward was thinking about doing a solo record, and bringing in different
people, and he had been in contact with Townsend, and I thought, "Oh my God, how amazing
with that, you know, Pete's writing and Ed's CarPlaying, it never happened, of course,
but that would have been astonishing, you know?" So I'm not saying that, I'm not saying
that Edward, you know, heard, you know, the hoot-hoot snacks and Pete playing since, to come
up with jump, but I do know that he was a big hoot fan, you know, you listen to some of
his playing and, you know, it's definitely got a hoot thing, and I had mentioned that
to him, he goes, "Yeah, yeah, man." And at that back in the club days, Edward used to sing
young man blues, and he goes, "Yeah, man, I sang that pretty well, you know, so he did
all those coosocks, so there's definitely a connection there."
Yeah, yeah, he's dead.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I know, they were, yeah, yeah, yeah, the dad was a pretty successful clarinet.
I don't think it was sax, it was clarinet.
You know, he used to play in, you know, like orchestras, you know, back in the Netherlands,
whether from, you know, and they do like live radio performances and that type of thing.
Yeah, so Edward and Alex, you know, were around music all the time.
Yeah, and they were pushed early on, you know, parents thought, you know, you've got to be
able to read, you know, Edward started playing piano, which he hated, you know, and Alex
was a pretty good violin player.
And you know, they come over here and they start listening to, you know, a lot of those,
British invasion bands, they play five, they hear the Beatles and all of a sudden, you
know, they want to play guitars, you know, and Edward actually started on the drums and
Alex played guitar, and they sing to you now, you know, who did like that.
And they switched.
No, I think that covers all of it.
I just think that they were, they were, they were one of the greatest bands ever, and I
think that record is one of the greatest records ever made at some of the greatest guitars
sounds.
And, you know, they were so heavy.
And again, there's not any of those huge, distorted guitars, but they were able to convey
that kind of that heaviness through, again, that ensemble playing, you know.
It was just a situation with those four guys.
If you take away one member, it changes, you know, so sadly, we know that Moon and John passed
away, you know, and Kenny Jones comes in to play for the who, and I thought that was terrible.
Zach Starky, who's a very good drummer, a little, had a little more that Keith Moon thing,
you know, and then a Pinot Paladino comes in, plays bass, replaces John, who's an amazing
bass player, but it was never the same, you know.
So, you know, you can't, you couldn't replace any of those guys.
So, yeah, one of the greatest records ever.
Yeah.
Oh.
Yeah.
I think back, I mean, I started writing, it was probably late '72, so it's legitimately
50 years.
Actually, probably a little less than 50 years.
I sort of, you know, kind of drifted away from writing the magazine thing.
I probably haven't really done anything for any magazines for about four years.
So, you know, I'm probably more like 45 years, but yeah, there was a big body of work.
You know, I was lucky in as much as when I really started writing sort of in the early '70s
there.
It was a time when, you know, music magazines were sort of being born, you know, it was a
time period, you know, so you had magazines like a part player just kind of coming out, you
know, and crawdaddy and musician, you know, these incredible magazines that were coming out,
and they needed writers to provide content, you know, and I started writing for my high
school newspaper.
I was a senior.
I got on the newspaper, the Culver City Centurion, and rather than write about some scholastic
thing, you know, school newspapers got to be about, you know, the drama club or the
football team, you know, I thought, I want to write about music.
So I approached the journalism teacher, Mrs. Carpenter, very sweet woman, and said, listen,
I want to write about music.
Okay, you go do that, you know.
So I sent out letters to all the clubs, you know, you know, back in the day when you sit
down, you type a letter and put it in envelope and, you know, put a label on there, and, you
know, so I sent out letters to the whiskey and the troubidor, the starwood, the ice house,
which is a club out in Pasadena, probably only a few blocks from where Van Halen's were
living at the time.
The Golden Bear, which is a club down south of where I was living in the Hollywood Hills,
and, you know, most of them said, yes, you know, just give us a call when you want to come
by and review shows.
So I started going and reviewing shows.
I mean, I saw some amazing shows at the whiskey early on, you know, like, yeah, yeah, man,
I was in high school.
I could not believe it.
I thought, they're going to laugh me off the planet.
They, and they all embraced me.
Oh my God, you know, the whiskey, you know, I, I, I, my God, I saw, this is like 70, 71.
I think I saw the Almen brothers.
I think maybe Chicago.
I mean, just, just unbelievable gigs, you know, and, and, and Mario and Almer, who were the
two owners, they said, yeah, just show us the letter when you want to come.
So I go show up, but I show them a little, yeah, going, it was just, it was just, it was
just, yeah, man, they, they just really embraced it.
And I told them, I go, listen, you know, I'm, I'm the music editor for my, my high school
newspaper and, you know, 1700 students go there.
And, you know, I think some of these people would like to know about your club.
And go great, you know, show us it, you know, so I, I, I, I, I, it is, it is, it is, and
I will mention what actually what I'd love to know is how many people looking at my little
reviews of, of shows there ultimately went to the whiskey.
I've been a lot of them, you know, I mean, I, you know, because I'd have people come up
the next day, you know, and then the other side of journalism, you know, I was, I was not
a popular kid in school, you know, I wasn't an athlete, but I, you know, I write a story
on saying, you know, some amazing band, the whiskey, and the next day, you know, kids who
would never talk to me will come up, go, oh, I read you a review.
Yeah, that was great, man.
I thought, there's something here.
This is great, you know, I mean, I'll do this for free if I can talk to the cute girls,
you know what I mean?
So, so after high school, I went to UCLA, I went straight into UCLA, I thought, okay, you
know, you're going to, you know, try to pursue this, you know, become a better writer, so
I took some English classes, and that was a nightmare beyond description.
I remember one teacher, and I write about him.
If I can remember his name, I might have printed his name, but I couldn't remember his name.
I probably wouldn't have printed his name, he would have sued my own.
But this guy was a nasty guy, you know.
I actually was able to get on the staff of the daily brewing, like the school newspaper,
and there was some really, really, really good writers.
I mean, you know, I mean, a lot of some our kids are going there, they have some great writers,
so I was doing like reviews of like live stage shows, you know, it wasn't rock and roll
bands, but it was like, you know, live, you know, plays and things like that.
And I was overjoyed to do, you know.
So I remember, you know, I do one and it would come out in the paper, I'd show my little
violin, remember coming into class, and the teacher would be behind his desk, you know,
and he'd be reading the newspaper, the day of the morning, I'm thinking, kind of wondering
if he's, you know, looking at my, one of my stories, you know, and you know, he kind of,
be reading, and then he kind of lower it, you know, and he kind of look at me, you know,
and give me like a grin like he had read it, and it's the worst thing he's ever read.
And, you know, I wrote, I handed these papers and I was getting asked and he'd write a big
red, you know, not good.
What do you think you're doing, you know, and he took me a side one time, you, you know,
you really think you're a better writer than you are.
You're never going to make it a survivor.
And I remember that clearly, you know, and you know, maybe he's got that kind of people
who he felt that way about.
But yeah, so I, I left UCLA.
I started reaching out to local papers.
You know, I had a couple things printed in a, in a, a little local paper called the L.A.
Star.
And just, just live reviews, because I wasn't on any list.
I couldn't interview anybody, but I could go review live shows, you know, at the pletium,
hall of the pletium, interview T-Rex and West Bruce and Lang, I remember clearly.
So you use that as a calling card and that, that, I use that and then I sort of got, got
into the L.A. Free Press, which is a very hip and highly respected kind of an underground
newspaper.
It was like political, you know, but they had a little music section.
And then that led to meeting somebody, some people at Gibson and Strongberg.
They were like the first rock and roll publicists.
They handled the stones and Jeff Beck and Steely Dan and Dr. Hook and Blackhain grew all
these bands and they sort of took me under their wing.
And so they said, hey, you know, we'll let you interview Steely Dan at the interview.
You know, Dr. Hook, I can go absolutely.
You know, so having the access to that, I was now able to, you know, send out, you know,
legitimate interviews to different people.
Had my first story in guitar player, which was Jeff Beck that they set up for me.
That opened up, you know, a seven year run with guitar player.
I wrote a couple of things for Rolling Stone and the cream and musician, circus, zoo world
and music life.
I also started writing for some Japanese magazines, you know, and it just kind of, you kind
of built, you know, guitar world in the mid 80s.
And yeah, yeah, Cameron, you know, I knew Cameron.
And we had run into each other.
You know, Cameron was the golden boy.
I mean, you know, Cameron X X XTN had the covers in Rolling Stone and, you know, I was, I was
so jealous I could slip my wrist, you know, he was an amazing writer.
You know, I'd like to think that somehow I, you know, I made my way out of his shadow,
but you know, I'm not going to begin to say I was Cameron Crow.
But yeah, it was that really just hanging out with bands.
You know, so I was going to the whiskey a lot by then.
I was on mailing list, so I was literally at the whiskey at least a couple times a week.
I mean, I was, I was there a lot.
And this is during the punk period.
This is 77.
And I wasn't a big punk fan.
And the whiskey was, was booking a lot of punk bands.
So I, honestly, I just had no desire to see them to go drive the whiskey.
But on this one night, and I believe it's June or July 77th, Cheap Trick is recording a
live record.
I thought, wow, Cheap Trick recording a live record of the whiskey, that's worth seeing.
So I take my brother who I took along to a lot of shows and we go to the whiskey.
And we're downstairs waiting for Cheap Trick to come on.
And somebody taps him on the shoulder and it's Michelle Meyer.
Michelle Meyer was the club's booker.
I knew Michelle because I had a band at the time.
And she actually booked my band into some of the clubs.
She booked, she booked a club called Mademois East, which was a pretty hip punk club back in
the day.
It was like downtown LA.
I mean, you really wouldn't want to go there at night and watch outside.
But you know, it was one of those dark, dang places that punk bands like to play.
Somehow we played there, plus we also played Mademois West.
So I was forever indebted to her.
I mean, you know, I love Michelle.
She was amazing.
And she said, listen, there's so many upstairs you need to meet.
She knew I was writing for guitar magazines.
So we go upstairs and we go up into one of the dressing rooms.
The whiskey dressing room is like an asterisk.
I mean, the floor is literally super ass.
And the beer cans and the beer glasses and all the bands have actually written on the walls.
There's probably some amazingly famous graffiti up there, you know?
And I see this guy standing over the corner, you know, it's smoke.
I see a red.
And I'm looking at him and I keep trying to run over in my mind.
So this is '77.
Ben Halen was pretty famous in Hollywood by then, you know.
The word was out there was a Stan Van Halen who played the sunset strip, had landed a deal
with Warner Brothers.
But there were no kind of pictures of them.
There were no magazines doing articles because nobody knew them.
It was still kind of exactly.
So this was like eight months before the first record comes out exactly everywhere he stuck
in the eight.
So I'm looking at it.
And I think I'm pretty certain I recognized him.
You know, maybe from flyers or I don't know.
I just can't remember looking at him and thinking, who is that?
So I kind of knew it was, but here's the kicker.
I had never heard Van Halen play.
Though Van Halen were playing the whiskey and gizaries and starwood constantly.
And I was at those clubs a lot.
I had never seen them play.
So I go in and she introduces me.
And Steve Rosen, this is Edward Van Halen, Godhead, and Evan Halen, Steve Rosen.
And when she called somebody, Godhead, that was Michelle's way of saying, this is as great
as great gifts.
You know, she only used that description for the absolute kings of the kingdom.
So we start talking.
And again, I'm aware that this guy was in a band called Van Halen and that they had a
deal in Warner Brothers.
So I'm assuming he's got to be a good guitar player.
They've got to be good band to get a deal in Warner's because no local bands had deals like
that.
So I was kind of in awe of him just for the fact that he had this major record deal.
So we start talking.
And somehow Eric Clapton comes up and he was a monster Eric Clapton then.
I was a huge, like I mentioned before, a huge Clapton.
I mean, I knew Clapton, you know, crane yard birds going back to the roosters, all those
blues bands.
I was kind of a Clapton snob.
I mean, I knew a lot about him.
So when I was talking to somebody and they made some ill informed comment about Clapton
that I thought was like beneath me, you don't know, should have had Eric Clapton.
It's like, I was very dismissive.
So I kept waiting for Edwards to make some comments like, you know, oh, yeah, Edwards, did
it was playing a band called The Yard, you know what I mean?
Something dumb.
I was, my radar was too to do that, you know, but with Edward, it was the other thing.
He was so understanding of Clapton as a guitar player and tonally and, you know, talking
about Eric's figure of ride rider.
I mean, he, you know, he did an infinitely deeper dive than I eat than I could ever do because
I didn't understand Eric's playing like that.
I played guitar, but not, I didn't understand like Edward did.
So we had this amazing instant report about their Clapton.
We started talking about Jeff Pack, Richie's last more.
I mean, I loved all those guitar players and it was just this extraordinary conversation.
And so, you know, we're talking it again.
I can't remember.
It could have been an hour, it could have been 45 minutes.
He kind of, you know, the same way, hang on.
He runs out of the room.
He kind of comes back, you know, and he's got a pencil or a pen in his hand.
He picks up some scrap of paper off the floor, maybe it was a torn, you know, ticket or something.
And he writes his phone number on there.
It was, hey man, it's my phone number.
Call me, you know, I'd like to, you know, talk to you again.
I thought, yeah, that's great, man.
That's amazing.
So, fast forward, February 78, as I mentioned, I was getting all the monthly releases from
Warner's Outs on their mailing list.
So, I remember getting the records.
It was little feat.
It was the, that Beatles spoof, the Monty Python guys, my brain.
It's faster than the, anyway, you know, that, and this, that AIMM record.
Now, I'm going, oh, there's that guy.
They're like, "Oh, is that a raffis play?"
I put the record on, and I put that on the first song and it's going, "Dun-dun-dun,
dun-dun."
Excuse me, and I'm listening.
I go, "Yeah, that's cool.
We're going to do needle drops."
I was really underwhelmed.
I thought, "Yeah, it's good.
It smells really good."
I write about this in a book, and I'm thinking, "If I write this, are people going to come screaming
at me and burn my house?"
My response to it, I find it sounded like deep purple, but not as good.
They're kind of the same kind of fast shuffles.
And he had the vibrato thing, and I just dismissed it.
And I want to interject very quickly.
The other reason was, so I grew up listening to Jeff Beck, you know, Truth and Bekole,
and the first Zeppelin record, and the early Prokohenem records with Robin Trower and
Free and Paul Kosoff, and Cream.
My yardstick, man, was really high.
So if you didn't blow me away like that first Jeff Beck record, it just didn't get me.
But I sat down and listened to the next day, I go, "Everybody in the world gets this record,
but me, I must be missing something."
So I sat down and I tried to, you know, leave out all my preconceived notions, and I sat
down and listened to it, and I go, "Oh my God, this is that guy I was talking to, and I realized
electric guitars forever changed."
You know, I mean, the sound of his guitar, his articulation, the way he used the vibrato
bar, you know, it wasn't, I mean, everybody got hung up on the rruption.
I didn't know what he was doing.
I just thought it was cool, you know, but that wasn't it, it was more, it was just the way
he, you know, he put the chords together, and it was alive recording, you know, they'd
be playing, and when he broke into a solo, there was no rhythm guitar behind it.
I love those kinds of records, you know.
So it was amazing.
So 1978, from that point on, he was still living in Pasadena with his parents.
He meets Valerie, Valerie has bought a house in Coldwater Canyon.
I was living in Laurel Canyon, which was literally nine minutes away.
So he would come over to my house, but I had a little guest house, you know, he'd come over,
you know, and first thing he'd do, he'd walk in and I had guitars, you know, in the stands,
and he'd pick up a guitar and he'd start playing.
You know, so we do interviews, and he's sitting there playing songs, and you know, he'd come
over.
It was unbelievable.
He'd come over before like the second record came out, and he goes, "Yeah, man, you know,
we'll work on the second record, you know?"
So we'd go down to his car, and he'd play me tracks of guitars, and there were drums.
I don't even think they were bass or vocals on it, and I'd sit there and I'd hear the tracks,
you know, naked.
You know, it was just astonishing.
Then we'd go upstairs, and he'd pull up one of my guitars, and he'd go, "Yeah, man,
this is what I'm doing in Romeo's Delight," or whatever the song was.
And he'd be playing those riffs in front of me on my guitar, on my electric guitar, unplugged,
and I have that stuff on cassette, and it's...
I was so lucky, man.
It's like sitting there watching, you know, Da Vinci paint Mona Lisa, or John Steinbeck,
type out, "East of Eden," or...
It was just these extraordinary moments, and for the next...
Well, our relationship band did in 2003, and it did start changing, probably in the early
'90s, but for the next 12 years, it was just astonishing, you know, and I had to spend time
with this Edward Van Halen, who was, you know, changing the world, you know, and saw the band
perform live a lot of times, and, you know, then, you know, a couple days later, you know,
he'd been my house, you know, sitting on the couch, you know, drinking a beer and eating potatoeships.
You know, it was...
It was pretty unbelievable, you know?
I was, and in fact, he said to me, you know, when Dave left the band, he said, "Hey, man,
find me a singer."
And I figured he's just goofing around, right?
Like, Edward Van Halen can't find a singer.
Like his role of dext doesn't have every fucking singer in the world.
He couldn't have anybody he wanted singing.
But he was serious, you know?
I wish I'd realized how serious he was.
I think I actually went out and, you know, sort of half-heartedly, you know, looked for singers,
but I figured he was just joking.
The thing about Edward was, he sometimes took the path of least resistance, so I don't think
that he wanted, he certainly didn't want to.
And I'm not even sure that he, if he was even wired about knowing how...
Now, I'm just talking out loud here about being around him.
And we never talked about this, about, you know, calling up singers and setting up an audition
or having them send tapes.
I just don't think he thought like that.
I think he was too consumed with writing and doing things with the guitar.
So, you know, he's at his mechanic and his, you know, Sammy Heygart has the same mechanic.
And Ed says, they're looking for a singer and his mechanic says, "Oh, what about Sammy Heygart?"
So, you know, that's how that kind of came out.
And in those early days was Sammy the band.
I mean, he was, he was happy, man.
He loved work with Sammy.
It was an entirely different experience of Dave.
I think with Sammy, it was more of him sitting in the room with Sammy working on stuff.
I think with Dave, it was more...
He worked on guitar parts, you know, give Dave the track.
Dave would sit and do lyrics and melodies and then come to the studio record.
But with Sammy, I think it was more, you know, they're in the room together.
You know, Sammy is a guitar player.
He's more musical.
I'm not saying he's a better singer than Dave.
But, you know, he did play guitar.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're different.
You know.
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.
You were like, "God, that was incredible."
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it was certainly been the next step undoubtedly.
Yeah, for a long time, well, one or two records, you know, Ed was really happy.
And then, you know, classes happen and Sammy's not working as hard as Ed would want
to, and, you know, things happen.
And then, so it's 95 when Gary Sharon comes into the band somewhere around there.
And by then, I didn't have the kind of relationship I did earlier.
I was not hanging out with him as much.
We did talk about Gary Sharon, and he was really happy about Gary.
I know a lot of people dismissed that record.
I thought it was a pretty good record.
I thought Gary was actually a good singer.
But I don't think people were ready for, you know, yeah, one singer, Lacing Dave, but two
singers in Ben Hailland.
I think it could have been anybody.
I don't think that record was going to be a challenge.
My feelings.
Yeah.
It was.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Yeah.
It's the top.
It's really good.
It's a much more dynamic panoramic guitar sound, nothing like those early records, but yeah.
I mean, look, I mean, Ed could never have a bad guitar sound.
It was just a changed guitar sound.
You know, in my mind, it was a little more less organic.
You know, this is a brown sound in my mind.
Yeah.
You know, and then there's the couple songs in Gale for the greatest history record.
I don't know.
How many of my brain?
A human?
There's two songs.
Yeah.
A lot of people thought that could have been the next evolution for Ben Hailland.
You know, they'd bring back Dave to sing some songs, but you know, which goes back to my, my, my, my statement for, but sometimes Edward Taken the easiest path.
I mean, you know, inviting Dave to do those two songs and then ultimately touring with Dave again.
I mean, I never quite understood that, you know, I Ted Templeman, you know, he tells him in the book, you know, left Ted was, was crucial to Ben Hailland.
But Ed would tell me things about Ted, you know, and, but then you know, it brings Ted back after the hiatus of one or two records.
And then works with Ted again.
And I just think it was because, you know, Ed, Ed, I don't know.
Didn't know or didn't want to go look for another producer.
I don't know, but, but you know, sometimes it was, you know, Ted was there.
I would have a four on one.
I want Ted back.
So.
I'll backtrack just a minute here.
So in 1985, I asked Edward, I go, Ed, look, riders are going to come after you, you know, and they're going to want to write your life story.
You know, I'd like to be the person to write that.
And he goes, yeah, yeah, man, I can't think of anybody else who could write it, you know, and that, that was astonishing for him to say that to me.
And so I signed a simple little contract.
And so I started working on what was going to be his authorized biography.
So I'm now reaching out to, you know, his friends back in Pasadena, you know, guys who were putting, who had put on shows with the band, you know, they sell out the Pasadena Civic or, you know, huge concerts at the end of the schools and stuff.
I played with, you know, just doing a lot of interviews.
I kept trying to get Edward to sit down and do some more interviews with me for the book.
Look, I interviewed him a lot for the guitar magazine.
So that was a specific kind of conversation.
But I needed him to sit down.
I wanted to talk to him about, you know, his life back in the Netherlands.
And, you know, what was it like, you know, his relationship with his brother?
And did he have any other relatives, you know, and was your popular kid?
And, you know, when did you start smoking and all that stuff that nobody knew about?
That I had to talk to him about, you know, they had to be part of the book.
He would never commit to that.
He always said, well, now it's not the right time, you know.
If a book comes out, now people are going to think my career is over.
I go, and the only person who is going to think that is you.
But so that book never happened.
So 2003, the relationship ends fast forward 17 years.
I thought about the book often on.
I just never, honestly, the real desire to do it.
I thought, my God, if I, you know, try to put this together now, you know,
how am I going to remember all of those memories, you know, all those things that happened?
And, you know, but I have some guys who are always on the him end.
You've got to write the book, got to write the book, got to write the book, got to write the book.
And so my cat, Arpegio, used to wake up at like two in the morning and he wanted to be fed.
So I'd wake up and I'd go downstairs and I'd have this little two bedroom upstairs,
downstairs, little guest house, and I'd go and feed him.
And I'd try to go back to sleep and, you know, now I'm right away.
So I remember going into the, you know, my computer room and I remember the day.
It was August 24th, my birthday.
And I just started typing and I've vaguely had the idea of the book.
I just started typing and I kind of come up with the first paragraph that's the intro to the book.
And I'm looking at it and I go, that's pretty good.
That's pretty interesting, you know.
And the next night, the same thing happened. The cat wakes me up.
And, you know, I started pulling out the cassettes, all the cassettes I'd done.
I found these sort of hidden cassettes that I'd done with them.
And I'd call them a twilight tapes because he would call me at three in the morning and he wanted to talk.
And I'd record those interviews and he had told me you can record anything, anytime.
So, you know, if I wasn't too tired or, you know, I could find a record button.
I'd hit record, you know, so we just have these conversations and not specifically about music,
but maybe on his family or things that he was thinking about.
And, you know, I listened to some of those tapes early on when I started writing.
And there was just some amazing stuff on there and I go, "Oh my God, this really is amazingly intimate and insightful.
It's usually stuff about Edward."
So, I, you know, I listened to my cassettes and trying to, you know, chronicle everything and, you know, put things in order chronologically.
And, 14 months later, I finished "Tone Chaser."
I go, I wanted to publish her and, you know, so I reached out to some agents and not one fucking agent would even return an email.
And I thought, "Wow, you know, and so I talked to my friend Niels Lowsauer, Ben Hale and official photographer in the early days.
And Niels kind of, in your face kind of, I go, "Don't be an idiot. Don't get a publishing deal. Do it yourself."
You know, there's no money in publishing deals or anything, you know, publishing yourself. And he was right.
So, I found a, a, a, a, a printer.
And the books came and I had taken pre-orders and the response was amazing, you know, and I sold out of that first run of books.
Printed a second edition. Different covers, a few, some more photos. Just sold out of that.
And I'm now actually having a third edition printed.
I'm hoping they have those books, "Mmm, early March." And, yeah, the response has just been amazing.
You know, people seemed to have really embraced it. And, I mean, it, it was a really personal book, you know.
I mean, I think it revealed, not revealed, that's the wrong word.
It, it, it talked about everyone in a, in a very real way, not, not just as a musician, not Edward, this bigger than life figure.
You know, always smiling, but a guy who, you know, had, had, had, marital problems. And was worried about the band.
And, you know, got, got down sometimes, you know, and on the other side of that, showed it eye.
And how supportive, always, he was of me, you know. And I think people responded to that, you know.
And I think they, they saw, or they saw, I've read in letters that, you know, they saw similar, similar relationships that they've had.
Look, I'm not trying to pass myself off as a psychologist, or psychiatrist, and that. But, but being a rock journalist, as much as anything else, is just thinking very good listener.
And I was, so, you know, I listened and we talked, and, and I think I was somebody he could trust, you know, in respect.
And people got that sense from the book, and that, that made me very happy, you know, that's what I was trying to convey.
I was trying to humanize Edward Van Halen.
So, yeah.
Yeah, man, we'll definitely get you a copy.
Absolutely.
Cool, cool, man. Can I, can I put in a little plug, you Steve?
Fantastic. So, I am taking pre-orders, and as I said, I can't, I can't give you a drop-down date, but,
I would say the first, the first couple weeks of March, they will be here.
You can pre-order the book at, on my website, tonechaserbook.com, tonechaserbook.com, one word.
And as soon as I have books in hand, you'll be able to get them on Amazon, eBay, Reverb, and Etsy.
If you want to check out my Instagram page, it's pretty, pretty cool. There's a lot of kind of fun photos and stuff up there.
It's @theeve.rosin.gitar.pix.
And if anybody is interested in collectible guitar picks, I sell those on eBay.
But, yeah, and, and you can check me out on Facebook, a tonechaserbook.
I think you just type that in, you'll find me. But, yeah, so, if you haven't checked out the book and you are a fan of Enhaling, I really think you'll dig the book.
It's much different than the other books that are out there, and those are remarkable books.
You know, Bratiel Linsky and Chris Kills book and Paul Brandigan, those are fantastic books.
But this one is a little different, little different. And, yeah.
So, check it out.
Absolutely, Steve, had a great time. Thank you, man.
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