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Hello and welcome to Communication Breakdown, a new podcast from the Observatory on Corporate

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Reputation.

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Thanks for joining us.

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I'm Steve Dowling in Silicon Valley.

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And I'm Craig Carroll in New York City.

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Each week, Steve and I take a look at strategies companies are using to shape headlines and

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sometimes save their skins.

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It's a post game show for PR Pros.

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This week.

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The world's attention turns the Washington for the second inauguration of President Donald

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Trump.

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In addition to the usual pageantry, inauguration day saw the first executive orders signed

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at a hockey rink indoors, of course, while outdoors it was colder than Davos.

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If the polar vortex didn't give Washingtonians a chill, a surprise appearance by the proud

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boys surely did.

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Plus, a seemingly never-ending string of stream of consciousness speeches and press

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of alibilities by the new commander in chief.

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And that was only Monday.

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Well come back to the Donald Trump show, America.

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This week is all Trump all the time, flanked by the titans of tech, building his pardon

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pins, still fixated on Panama and Greenland, among other familiar themes and grievances.

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With inauguration and pressure minds for this episode, we're going to be looking back at

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the week that was, sharing our highlights and takeaways for Consoliders and some early

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thoughts on how companies might navigate this new administration.

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Let's start with the inauguration itself under the capital, Rotunda.

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Trump took the oath, gave a speech.

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That's usually the focal point of inauguration day.

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But it was quickly overshadowed by Trump himself as he often does.

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But let's go to that first noon on January 20 speech, Craig, what were your impressions?

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Well, in true Trump fashion, the speech itself almost felt like it was a prelude to the

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spectacle that followed.

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For me, what struck me was how Trump used the inaugural moment not to pivot but to double

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down.

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The rhetoric was classic, vintage, Trump populist, and bad of, and heavy on grievances.

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It wasn't so much a call for unity as it was as a continuation of his campaign messaging,

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except it was simply repackaged for his first official act as president.

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From a comms perspective, I'd say it's clear this administration is going to be doubling

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down on disruption as the brand.

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For companies, the only lesson is this: we can expect turbulence, we can anticipate unpredictability,

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and we need to prepare to pivot at any moment's notice.

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So in this environment, agility is not going to be a competitive advantage.

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It's going to be a necessity.

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Yeah, companies are going to get used to rolling with it.

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And to your point earlier about people keep expecting somehow the Trump is going to pivot,

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that's never going to happen.

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I think it is safe to say.

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It's surprising, honestly, that we keep hearing this idea that, oh, because it's an inaugural

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speech, it's going to be somehow different.

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It wasn't, and we should just banish that expectation from our minds.

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I was struck by the sheer, I think a lot of people were struck by the sheer volume of executive

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orders on day one.

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I think there were more than two dozen of them, as well as, you know, we alluded to in the

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introduction, the performance aspect of it, signing them at the Capitol one arena in front

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of 20,000 supporters.

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It is what Trump promised to do.

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So we shouldn't spend too much time on the surprise factor here.

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I think what shocked a lot of people was the pardons, pardoning of the January 6th insurrectionists.

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Yeah.

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I was telegraming that for so long and was so widely expected to deliver on that campaign

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promise.

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People had been asking if it would be everyone who stormed the Capitol on January 6th or perhaps

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Trump would not pardon insurrectionists who attacked Capitol police.

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The point is Republican leaders were being asked if they would effectively support looking

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the other way on violence against the police.

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Many of them most notably the vice president and vice president-elect said, no, you shouldn't

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get away with attacking a cop.

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But of course, that's exactly what Trump did.

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And I'm not focusing here necessarily on the politics or the ethical aspect of it, although

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we could do a whole show on that.

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It apparently just became so arduous the process.

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The Trump wanted to do it on day one.

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And according to reports, he just said, release them all.

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The lesson here, I think, as if we need to learn it again is that no one speaks for Trump.

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If you were one of those Republican senators or JD Vance, you got, you went out on a limb

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and Trump cut you right off.

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Yeah.

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Just on a Thursday, there hasn't been a single White House briefing to my knowledge.

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The press secretary has been on Fox News, but not the briefing or impodium.

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No one speaks for Trump.

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Trump is the one who is going to make the decisions he's made clear and is going to deliver

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them importantly.

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And so I think the takeaway here is, this was a great quote and axiosis from a transition

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source.

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It really stuck with me.

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Never get ahead of the boss, meaning Trump because you just ever know.

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You know, I think the part and highlight the dangers of leadership style that's prioritizing

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loyalty and impulsiveness over clarity and process.

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You know, for leaders that are watching this, the takeaway is clear.

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The unpredictability is designed to, you know, energize a base, but it's so going to leave

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other institutions and allies scrambling.

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And that's the kind of instability that can have long term costs, you know, especially

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when trusting coordination or critical.

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Now, when you're saying that no one speaks for Trump, right?

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It certainly creates an environment of complete unpredictability.

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And for companies, I think this is like almost like the perfect test of the ultimate test

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of what I'm calling chaos communications, right?

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You can't control the noise, but you can't control how you respond early in our podcast

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when we talked a little bit about the shift from crisis communication to chaos communications.

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Well, here we go, right?

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So just a matter of what we talked about before, it's a part of the playbook is going to

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be three general ideas, principles, priorities and perspectives.

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So, you know, one, principles and, you know, with all this chaos, your core values are going

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to have to be what keep you grounded.

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The external environments all over the place, it's going to be your principles to make sure

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that your communication stays consistent and aligned with what you stand for.

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And when I say principles, what I mean is this is like the ground floor.

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These are the things that you're never going to fall below.

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And it's a little different than values, right?

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I mean, the values are sort of important, but the principles are sort of like the gameplay

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for the unexpected, which may not always tap into your values.

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But the priorities is, you know, right now we've had some idea for several months about

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how Trump was going to respond.

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And every company has the list of things that they want to get done during this administration.

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So it's keeping your priorities front and center so that you're not distracted by whatever

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the headlines are bringing.

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And then I think the thing that is super important here is your perspective, right?

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This is the time to be calm, clear, and this is going to be a much more important objective

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for comms leaders for working with their senior leadership teams.

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The key aspect here is just not getting caught up in the chaos.

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You just don't have to respond to every move.

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So take a step back, figure out what really matters and communicate in a way that matters

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to reassure your stakeholders.

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You just got to keep the perspective.

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And the more stable you are, the more trust you could build.

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I think that, you know, this unpredictability you mentioned that is part of the strategy

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at the White House.

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The strategy is to flood the zone, to overwhelm the system, overwhelm the news media, the

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conversation in Washington and elsewhere with these proposals and claims and ideas and maybe

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some actual action, but that makes it hard for people to keep up.

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That's the strategy.

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Keep everyone off balance because it makes it harder for the opposition to focus.

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So how do you operate in that environment?

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Yeah.

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I think that idea of being off balance is what is so central right now.

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It's like getting your footing is really one of the most important things here, right?

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You've got to find your footing in a way that, you know, when the ground is constantly shifting

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below you, right?

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You got to stay balanced and you got to stay focused on what it is that you're trying to accomplish

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because what appears to be a strategy from the White House is going to change day to day

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and it's going to throw you off.

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Yeah, consistency to your earlier point, consistency and discipline, meaning direct communication,

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don't take the bait on every trial balloon that may go up.

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And I would argue simplicity as well.

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Stay focused, try to keep your audience focused, which is no small trick with all this chaos

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going on, but bringing everything back to those actual values and principles and goals

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back to reality.

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And that involves playing the long game.

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Markets want certainty, businesses want certainty, they want clarity and those are not part

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of the Trump routine right now.

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Stavier's put on about the market's craving, certainty.

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And certainly Trump's unpredictability is what throws all that out the window.

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But for companies, the challenge in this kind of chaos is to become the source of clarity.

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That's where sticking to your principles and priorities really matters when everything

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else is unstable.

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You know, your stakeholders and the markets need to know exactly where you stand and what

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you're focused on.

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That's not easy, but this consistency here is what makes all the difference.

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And just to bring it back to this idea that no one speaks for Trump, the White House can

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get away with this or can execute on this chaotic style because Trump is freewheeling and nobody

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in the organization crosses him.

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Companies can't operate like that.

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Companies need discipline and to your point, it needs to be consistent when they're delivering

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these messages into whom.

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And so it's really asymmetrical here.

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It puts companies at a disadvantage, but you don't really have choice other than to be consistent

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and to be disciplined.

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Yeah.

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I think another principle is that what we've seen in politics play out is that people who

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try to play Trump's game lose.

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You don't want to be in that position.

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Right.

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So that Axios quote, never get ahead of the boss because you just never know.

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It sums up why chaos is so integral to Trump's leadership style.

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It's not just unpredictability for unpredictability's sake.

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It's about keeping everyone, even as closest allies off balance so that he remains the sole

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source of distraction.

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Sorry.

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Yeah.

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Exactly.

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Wow.

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So source of direction.

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Well, no, but both descriptions work.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, let's drill down into one of those moments of distraction.

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This was on Thursday, Trump, of course, too busy in Washington to go to Davos, but he did

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make an appearance by teleconference to not just the assembled leaders, but he took questions

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from a panel of top bankers, including the CEO of Bank of America, Brian Moynihan, and

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Trump went at him.

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They don't take conservative business.

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And I don't know if the regulators band data that because of Biden or what, but you and

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Jamie and everybody, I hope you're going to open your banks to conservatives because what

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you're doing is wrong.

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Mr. President, I'll say that.

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Your friend Gianni was sent a low, told me to tell you a low, and we look forward to sponsoring

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a world cup when it comes both this summer for the club and next year.

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So thank you for getting after the United States.

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Okay, not the most artful dodge by Moynihan, but he got through it.

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And importantly, a few hours later, both Bank of America and JP Morgan issued direct statements

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refuting the claims that Trump was making.

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Bank of America put theirs on social media.

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It reads, Bank of America serves more than 70 million clients, and we welcome conservatives.

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We would never close accounts for political reasons and don't have a political mistest.

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JP Morgan also issued a statement there.

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They said, quote, we have never and would never close the account for political reasons.

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Bull stop.

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We follow the law and guidance from our regulators and have long said their problems with

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the current framework Washington must address.

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In quote, up, so it's interesting, the speed in which both banks responded, but I was most

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impressed with the moment in the way Moynihan got through the exchange in the panel before

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world leaders.

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For me, it's the perfect example of the three piece in action for a chaos communication

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of principles, priorities and perspective.

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The principle being here diplomacy, decorum, collegiality, not engaging in some type of

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argument in the middle of a panel and getting off point from the purpose of the panel.

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And then, I think another example was just illustrating the collegiality and the humanity

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of their shared friend and then the priority being number one, stanchored to the purpose

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of the panel, given all the other world leaders that are there and the purpose of why the

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panel exists and their focus on business.

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And then the third piece is just perspective.

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He stayed calm.

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He stayed cool.

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He didn't have, I know other people said it looked like he had a, it looked like a deer in

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the headlights.

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I didn't see that.

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I kept his calm.

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He stayed right on script and he did not appear to get agitated.

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And there was, there did not appear to be any type of follow-up response after the panel.

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But in that moment, I thought he held it together quite well with his perspective.

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Yeah, I'm sure he brought a lot of skill and experience to that moment.

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I don't know how much strategic thinking or what kind was going into it.

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But I think the number one thing was let's just get out of this without arguing further

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with the new president of the United States over a satellite connection.

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But importantly, he didn't take the bait because that would have derailed the entire thing

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and you would have gotten into an argument and Trump would have made sure he got the last

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word and made sure it was not favorable towards Bank of America.

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So I think more importantly was how his team used, not the omit of surprise, but direct

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declaratively reject what Trump said and reassure their audience that it was not true.

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And I found it refreshing and I hope it sets a precedent for other folks who end up in

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the same situation because I am sure they will.

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Well, let's talk about some of the winners and losers this week.

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Steve, what do you see in terms of companies or people who came out on top?

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I think that one winner obviously was the companies we just mentioned who have exposure

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to tariffs.

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I don't think anybody is breathing easy, but they get to spend a little more time in anticipation

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rather than having to deal with an actual decision yet, although they may be looking forward

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to a decision one way or another so they can deal with it.

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I would say in terms of winners, Blue Sky, to me feels like there's more momentum and

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I think that especially with, we didn't talk about Elon Musk and what he was communicating

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this week with his words and gestures.

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But over on Blue Sky, I feel like every day we're seeing new converts.

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Blue Sky is the Twitter alternative here in the US.

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I think it's mostly from folks on the left side of the spectrum.

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I read the other day that Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is now the most followed or one of the most

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followed accounts.

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But where I think the growth is interesting is in Europe.

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And one maybe minor data point, the European Central Bank is now on Blue Sky.

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And it's not lost on observers that this is happening at the same time that Elon is getting

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more politically active in Europe using Twitter to promote these far right candidates.

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And the EU is really concerned about misinformation and political bias in social media.

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And so they seem to be on a collision course with Twitter and Facebook.

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But Blue Sky seems to be building a strong reputation and I would think that Combs leaders

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should keep an eye on it.

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Yeah, the point about the European Central Bank joining Blue Sky is kind of interesting.

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It's a small move.

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But at the same time, it says something about what the EU's priorities are.

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Especially when you think about Musk's Twitter or X becoming so, I mean, it's political here

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in the US, but even more so in Europe.

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And I would say what we're having now is a collision course, right?

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We've got the EU and platforms like Twitter and Facebook that just fills inevitable as

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a collision course.

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And then I think Blue Sky might end up being the quieter, more trusted alternative of the

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mix.

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Yeah.

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I'll go with one more winner.

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And this is honestly from a Combs perspective.

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There's political aspect to it that's unavoidable.

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But I thought that the Bishop Marion Buddy, who spoke directly to Trump during that sermon

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that he attended at the National Cathedral on Tuesday, she asked him to have mercy on immigrants

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and gay lesbian and transgender children, people who she said are scared now.

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And it was a powerful moment.

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It was uncomfortable for Trump.

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It got a lot of political attention.

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He was not happy about it, of course.

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He demanded an apology, which the Bishop has declined to give.

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But it struck me because this is an entirely appropriate and I would argue unsurprising

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thing for an Episcopal Bishop or a rabbi or a Baptist preacher or the Pope to say at any

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given service and indeed they do, that's their role.

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But what makes it remarkable to me right now is that there are so many people who are not playing

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their role when it comes to speaking out like those, those who were opposed to the pardons

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for violent insurrectionists of some Republican senators.

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You saw them immediately after Trump issued the pardon, they were like, oh, I have to read

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more about it or at least we're past it now or or whatever.

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But I think this is a reminder that leaders need people around them who will burst their

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group think bubble now and then.

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And it takes courage sometimes, but the differences of opinion, different perspectives, voices

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of dissent, healthy leaders should be able to hear all of those.

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And a lot of the time, if not most of the time, they can make the final product better.

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Steve, I think what really hit me about Bishop Buddy's remarks was just how simple and

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true they were.

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You know, she wasn't trying to be controversial.

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She was just doing what you would expect from someone in her position, which was calling

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for compassion and accountability.

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And the way she said it, right, have mercy.

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It was so direct you couldn't argue with it.

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It was a great reminder that sticking with your principles and being straightforward is

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going to be one of the most powerful ways of cutting through the noise.

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And I think for business leaders, they're just going to have to step up and say that a

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lot of what Trump was advocating for is not okay.

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But right now, there's a lot of playing it safe and there's also a line.

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And the way Bishop Buddy handled the line, very calm, direct.

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Okay, I'm going to use your word values, rooted in values.

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It's a perfect example of how you can disagree without being inflammatory.

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And so for companies, it's about, you know, how can we frame that disagreement in a way

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that's true to the mission and builds your relationships with your stakeholders?

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I don't want to say builds trust, but I do want to say just extends your relationship with

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them.

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Someone who I think did not have a great week and we won't spend too much time not just

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not to pile on, but Mark Zuckerberg, I think, did not have a great week.

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He apparently told Brian kill me to Fox that he was insulted by Biden characterizing

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him as an oligarch, because it was part of Biden's farewell speech.

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And of course, Biden never mentioned in my name, but this is something that we've seen

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in Zuckerberg and others do over the years.

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But someone obliquely issues this criticism and rather than keep quiet or leave some room

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for doubt, jumps in and expresses in, is indignation and you know, he could have let people wonder,

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maybe don't give critics satisfaction, but instead he like puts his hand up and says, yeah,

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that punch landed and it hurt.

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Wow.

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So I think among the tech bosses Zuckerberg had the worst week.

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I would say instead of diffusing the moment, I think what he did I'm doing is just kind

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of pouring fuel on the fire.

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You know, it's like he saw disorder and he met it with more disorder, right?

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The irony is that his reaction just added to the chaos instead of cutting through it.

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And I think, you know, just a good reminder, right?

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You know, sometimes the best movements is they calm cool and collected and let the noise

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pass, especially when it's not really about, you know, the first place.

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Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

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And to that point, of course, the viral moment was Zuckerberg was caught admiring, should

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we say, glancing at Laura Sanchez, which is Jeff Pazes' fiancee next to him.

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I think it's small, but it adds something to this overall narrative of somebody's trying

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to control his image and then just completely failing.

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You know, a moment like this is, you know, it certainly, you know, it seems trivial,

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but it's going to stick because it reinforces a story about somebody struggling trying

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to maintain composure of what he's under scrutiny.

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And he's getting called out on it by Steve Bannon for, I mean, most probably most significantly,

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Zuckerberg worked the hardest and in the most blatantly performative way in the last few

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weeks leading up to the inauguration he went on Joe Rogan.

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He canceled their fact checking programs.

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He rolled back to DEI policies.

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And Bannon went on ABC News last weekend and he described all the tech CEOs as supplicants

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but who have surrendered to Trump.

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But he was really reserved another level of disgust for Zuckerberg and kind of mocking

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him for this new masculine energy mantra of Zuckerberg.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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It's the whole thing, I think, for Zuckerberg right now is a mess.

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Yeah, yeah, you know, I mean, just, you know, starting with this Joe Rogan appearance and

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the whole policy rollbacks, it just felt like, you know, he's trying to cater to the

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new audience, but he couldn't decide who is actually speaking to.

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And I think, you know, that lack of clarity, create a confusion about what meta stands for

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or about, you know, internally and externally.

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And then the wrong, Cheryl Sandberg under the bus like that, I thought that was also kind

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of a misstep, especially, you know, when you think about their, their own partnership and

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how long she been tied to meta policies and the reputation.

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So I don't know, backpedaling with praise on threads just made it look like he couldn't

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control the narrative.

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And then he saw through that, I think everybody saw that for, for what it was.

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And yeah, I think he's the one reputationally who's got the most work to do.

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Yeah, I would say, yeah, critics likes the band and clearly didn't buy it.

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And it just risks coming off as being performative rather than being real.

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Well, all of that in the space of one week, that is our show for this week.

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We want to thank Shawn P Neal and the PeopleForward Network for making our podcast possible.

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If you'd like to tell us what you think or if you have a topic you'd like to suggest

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for our show, we would love to hear from you.

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Our email address is podcast@ocrnetwork.com.

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Communication breakdown is a production of the observatory on corporate reputation.

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I'm Steve Dowling.

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And I'm Craig Carroll.

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Thanks for listening.

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We'll be back next week.

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[MUSIC]

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