1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,000 [Music] 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:11,000 Monster House Presents 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:16,000 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before 4 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:22,000 A giant airing creature, a part-eight, on a mass 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:27,000 In Loch Ness, a 24-mile long bottomless lake in the Highlands of Scotland 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,000 It's a creature known as the Loch Ness Monster 7 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:51,000 [Music] 8 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,000 Monster Talk 9 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:59,000 Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm Blake Smith 10 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,000 And I'm Karen Stolzner 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:05,000 Hey there, Monster Talkers. Karen is still out on vacation, but we'll be back after this two-parter 12 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,000 I was planning to talk with Richard Hadham, who is the screenwriter for the Mothman Prophecies 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:14,000 About his new podcast, but I wasn't sure when I was going to get that scheduled 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:20,000 And then I ran into some logistic issues due to Karen's travel and my move to our new advertising platform 15 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,000 And Richard super kindly agreed to hop in for a quick 30-minute chat 16 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:31,000 Which then sprawled out into this really fun and wide-raging discussion that went for a full hour 17 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:36,000 Now I really enjoy Richard's new show, which we will be talking about in this discussion 18 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:41,000 And a link to it's in the show notes. It's called Richard Hadham's Paranormal Bookshelf 19 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:47,000 It's produced through the astonishing Legends Network, and it's not at all what I expected, yet I still really enjoyed it 20 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,000 You will too. You can easily find it in any podcast platform by searching for it 21 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:58,000 But there's also a link in the show notes here along with a link to some fun weird stuff that Richard introduced me to in this discussion 22 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:02,000 So here is part one, and we'll be back with part two on Labor Day 23 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Monster Talk 24 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:08,000 So I'm having you on today to talk about your new show, which I loved 25 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:09,000 Yay, thank you! 26 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,000 Season one was great 27 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:14,000 This is Richard Hadham's Paranormal Bookshelf 28 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 But if you just think it's a bunch of book reviews, that's not what it is 29 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:29,000 You've managed to incorporate, I think, an extraordinarily well-written amount of biographical content into the shows, which gives it an emotional weight 30 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,000 That a book review show would not have, so it's really great 31 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:39,000 Well, thank you, and it happened totally by accident 32 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:48,000 So what happened was, I, okay, so about if we're in August, so this is like a year ago spring 33 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:53,000 So this is just before the writer's strike in the summer of 2023 34 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,000 Okay 35 00:02:54,000 --> 00:03:00,000 And the ASSAPUK 36 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,000 God in touch with me 37 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:11,000 And I know some of the people from the group, and I had spoken to the group before 38 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:16,000 But they got back in touch and basically said, "Hey, do you want to come and just talk to our group?" 39 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:21,000 It's the association for the scientific study of anomalous phenomenon 40 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:22,000 Yeah 41 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,000 And they're really fun, and they go back decades 42 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:31,000 And they're a group you'd probably like, because they're not like super advocates 43 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:38,000 And they're not like, you know, rabid in terms of anything other than having a good time 44 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,000 Having a laugh 45 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:41,000 Yeah, yeah 46 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,000 Because it's British 47 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:43,000 Yeah 48 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:54,000 And having a drink and then talking about this stuff, but they're very willing to sort of hear all slides of me too 49 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,000 You mean they're basically reasonable people? 50 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,000 That's so weird, how do they keep membership? 51 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,000 I don't know, that's how they're posing, so I don't know how they're pulling it all 52 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,000 I love it 53 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,000 Yeah 54 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:13,000 And they have people come and speak, and so of course I was speaking on Zoom, and they're like, you can talk about whatever you want 55 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:19,000 And so the first time I just talked about Mothman, and that's easy, because I just talk about my experience 56 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,000 But then they were like, well, why don't you come on and talk about a supernatural subject? 57 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,000 And I was like, oh, yeah, that's great 58 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:31,000 But then I was like, oh, wait a second, like this talk is going to go on for like an hour 59 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:38,000 And I don't know any supernatural subject well enough to speak extemporaneously on it for an hour 60 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:44,000 So even after a subject was landed upon, and the subject was the Spiricom 61 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,000 Oh, okay 62 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:52,000 I've heard of this, okay, but what is it, because I don't want to claim that I know exactly what it is 63 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,000 I just know I've heard the term before 64 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:59,000 A quick honesty answer, I told Richard after this interview, I had thought I had heard this term before 65 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,000 But after he began to describe it, I had not 66 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:07,000 I think I was thinking of something like Spir's new mode of power god machine from the spiritualism days 67 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:13,000 Or maybe that equipment that John Hutchison used on video to pretend that he could cancel gravity 68 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,000 But it was none of those things, it's something much more interesting to me 69 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:17,000 Stand by 70 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:27,000 So the Spiricom is this thing that was developed in the 70s, and the idea was it could it was EVP to the next level 71 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:34,000 It could it was a device that could facilitate a two way like shortwave radio conversation 72 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:35,000 Nice 73 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:36,000 Living person and a dead person 74 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,000 Okay, do you remember who developed it? 75 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:45,000 Yes, it was developed by a guy named George Meek and he was a he was a tech head 76 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:53,000 Yeah, and and he but he had no media mystic abilities and he was basically looking for someone who was sort of an electronics genius 77 00:05:53,000 --> 00:06:00,000 But who was also a medium thinking that could sort of help bridge the gap because then that person could get in touch 78 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:06,000 Could step one would be you're a medium who's also a tech head so we found a guy named Bill O'Neill 79 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:14,000 And and the logic was okay use your media mystic abilities to find a ghost on the other side 80 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:22,000 Establish a connection and then start working with the ghost on developing the machine 81 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,000 Nice, that's wise, that's wise 82 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:31,000 Yeah, I mean, you know in a way it's this you know airtight logic right 83 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:43,000 And so Bill O'Neill did manage to communicate with someone who was also an electronics radio nerd on the other side 84 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:51,000 And established contact and then the idea was that the two of them together worked on this device until it's like can you hear me now? 85 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:52,000 Can you hear me now? 86 00:06:52,000 --> 00:07:00,000 And then one day the voice came through and it was Dr. Mueller who was the ghost on the other side 87 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,000 Okay, this is a great story 88 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:11,000 Yes, yeah, now you will be very pleased to know that I went ahead I you know and I've known about the Spiracom 89 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:17,000 for decades so I wrote this 35 page 90 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,000 Presentation where I basically 91 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:29,000 Talked about the entire history of the Spiracom but also talked about my history when I first heard about the Spiracom when I was a teenager 92 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,000 You know back at my parents house, you know in 1980 or whatever it was 83 93 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:47,000 And then sort of worked my way backward and forward through my life and my discovery of a book that was written about the Spiracom and all the stuff 94 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:57,000 All the way up through today in which the Spiracom has more or less been debunked and debunked in a really interesting way 95 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:15,000 And so I sort of take the story all the way through my era of belief and then my late discovery that there is almost no evidence supporting that this thing ever worked 96 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:23,000 And specifically because they put all the specs out and they said everyone else build this machine and try to do it 97 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,000 That's very scientific that's exactly what you should do 98 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:32,000 Yeah, yeah, and no one was ever able to do it the problem was meek also didn't keep a real strict eye on bill O'Neal 99 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:40,000 And bill O'Neal while I do believe was a medium and was able to communicate with the dead at a certain point 100 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,000 I think he just 101 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:49,000 Fudged the Spiracom and began doing it on his own and it's so funny because he he released early early video tape 102 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:59,000 I mean picture video from the mid 70s early 80s of him in his in his barn where the Spiracom setup was 103 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:07,000 And he's talking to George and of course it sounds like this he's like you know oh Dr. Mueller are you there Dr. Mueller 104 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 And Mueller is like 105 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:21,000 That's very authentic sounding it really is it's like 106 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:27,000 I'm not gonna keep interrupting Richard but this is an actual clip from a Spiracom session 107 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:33,000 I have an amulet here you are, I'll see you sir 108 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:39,000 I see you got there's all this videotape of him having this two-way conversation 109 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:47,000 But two things one his back is always to the camera so it's shooting at him facing the setup 110 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:55,000 So you never see his mouth yeah, that is the best setup for ventriloquism it really is when you never face the other one 111 00:09:55,000 --> 00:10:03,000 The dummy turns around and well hey you know Edgar Bergen and Charlie McCarthy had a huge radio 112 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:09,000 I love that so much this is a standing family get around the tube 113 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Look at this incredible he's drinking a glass of water how's this done 114 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,000 I know nothing really captures the magic of ventriloquism like radio 115 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,000 It really is the best medium for it right 116 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:32,000 So anyway so you never see you never see his face often his right hand is not visible so it's like oh that he was holding the you know 117 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:42,000 The voice modulator and but then but then I going through the internet and all the people commenting 118 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:52,000 For decades and tearing this stuff apart no no you're wrong no you're wrong and all this stuff finally someone provided a 119 00:10:52,000 --> 00:11:00,000 An argument that stunned me and I started reviewing all the clips I'd ever seen or heard 120 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:08,000 And their argument was so simple it was simply here's the problem you never hear them talk at the same time 121 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:16,000 Oh that's a good one yeah yeah right and if if he had thought it through he could have pre-recorded you know but you know 122 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Oh why bother yeah he are 123 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,000 And and there were there were 124 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:32,000 And you would think because the notion was that the communication was so I mean just barely able you know 125 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:40,000 And the other problem is you don't notice because that tone there's this sort of like buzzing tone that's coming out of the 126 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:47,000 Spiracom at all times and then is being manipulated by the ghost voice or at least that was always the theory 127 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:55,000 So you're always hearing this buzz even when only below Neil is talking and so he's talking but there's this 128 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,000 And then he turns into 129 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:16,000 And so you it doesn't occur to you that they're not talking over each other until someone mentions it and then you listen and you're like oh my god of course they be talking over you and I have talked over each other 130 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:26,000 And we can see each other yeah yeah of course of this zoom and we're both alive well I'm as far as I know allegedly right yeah yeah if you call this living 131 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:41,000 Yeah anyway all of which is to say I wrote this thing I delivered my talk to the ASSAP I answered questions we had a blast and then it was over 132 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:53,000 And this was May of 2023 and then I was sort of like oh it's kind of a bummer you know it's like I worked on this thing for a few weeks 133 00:12:53,000 --> 00:13:09,000 And then I just did the talk and it's kind of over and and then serendipitously Susan had said oh you know I I went to this podcast you know conference 134 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:21,000 And the paranormal podcasts are almost the most popular you know way above talking about TV or film or anything like that 135 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:31,000 It sort of goes like the you know the giant people you know Joe Rogan yeah and then and then lifestyle wellness and gurus and meditation 136 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:39,000 We're just true crime fall in there is it still is that's the next okay okay like true true crime is is real real thanks 137 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:51,000 Yeah and then and then but paranormal is up there so she's like if you do a podcast if you know Scott forest you know ever finally you know get you to do it 138 00:13:51,000 --> 00:14:00,000 It should not be TV talk it should be you know and then she goes she's like fishing for something she's like it should be you know Richard 139 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:12,000 Richard Adams paranormal bookshelf you know and you wow yeah talk about your books and I'm like oh my god yeah yeah yeah that's fantastic 140 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:21,000 I'm like I did that's what I did 10 days ago yeah and I'm like can I do it again and I'm like well of course I can because every one of those books I remember 141 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:31,000 when I read them what I was doing when I read them how I felt when I read them and and it's a way and I can sort of do autobiographical just sort of storytelling 142 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:43,000 And you're doing a great job I can't I gotta send to my listeners it you're a really good writer I mean I mean that as a writer you're really I mean obviously you work in this but I mean plenty of people work as writers in suck 143 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:53,000 I mean I found it extraordinarily engaging so yeah I think our listeners will too so I really do I highly recommend it you know so 144 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:59,000 That is amazing I really appreciate that it's really funny I've got friends who have known me for 40 years 145 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:07,000 And I'm and they're like oh I was listening to you talk about you know you're you know you're when you proposed a Susan or you know when you got to forest 146 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:15,000 or some story and they're like and I already know the story and I'm sitting in my car going oh my god what's gonna happen next 147 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:23,000 Exactly it's it's got a tremendous amount of emotional content I don't know how else to say it I mean it's got emotional weight 148 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:29,000 And if you just review the book or just talked about the concepts in the book that would not be there 149 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:39,000 I mean look let's see this is my paranormal selfs okay so I'm sure you got more but that's I'm very happy with it it's a nice collection 150 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:53,000 And that's just the I call them my cookie real books you know that's like if we get into ghost stories is all over there you know I mean I was like you know yeah so I'm waiting for one shelf is okay this is yeah 151 00:15:53,000 --> 00:16:01,000 This is potentially real and then guaranteed nonsense I think this is like you know admittedly fiction you know okay okay 152 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:13,000 There's a bookstore out here in LA in Burbank called dark delicacies and that's a great title that a great name for a place yeah yeah 153 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,000 It's a it's a great name it's a great place also and and I love it 154 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,600 Do they have coffee or coffee adjacent oh they should right yeah yeah man that's my two things 155 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:30,600 Coffee and books that's yeah yeah me too except three things plus booze well I got booze but you never can get that at the bookstore 156 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:36,600 Or at least not around here you can yeah we're gonna that's the big venture Susan and I are like we've got to open the bookstore bar 157 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:44,600 Dude that would rock I mean who would not want that that's fantastic yeah no you should totally do that I sold 158 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:50,600 And and of course and we love coffee too so Susan's like well during the day it'll be coffee and then at a certain point 159 00:16:50,600 --> 00:17:00,600 It'll sort of will ad will open the bar and you can sort of do whatever I love it I love it let's do it yeah I mean just I need because I need just one more money losing venture 160 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:12,600 Yes as we all do we all do yeah I think I can wipe us out so I my my local dispensary near here uh oh uh well I just mine is not my but I mean there is a there is a lot of very well 161 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:24,600 It's next to my croaker it's not my croaker either but whatever it's they what would you be more embarrassed walking into big city here here's the beautiful I don't know if you picked up on it or not 162 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Through talking to me about a really love puns they they rename they they added coffee to the mix so they basically set up a coffee bar and a 163 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:44,600 And they caught the coffee pot of course I love it is so good though I mean I go in there to get the coffee and my kids like why are you going into this 164 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,600 Pinser like did you did I'm getting the coffee right yeah but you know they put shit in the coffee 165 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:56,600 But that's what they said I was like no it's really good coffee is really really good coffee 166 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:06,600 When I regain consciousness yeah no it's like I'd rate I'd use a coffee and then I just go to sleep like coffee does you know right yeah I'd always put you to sleep and it chills you out yeah totally normal 167 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:12,600 So no it's really nice the coffee pot they don't not a pain endorsement but a total endorsement so yeah 168 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:24,600 Well the goofy little bit on dark delicacies was Susan says it's the only bookstore I've ever been to that has a section vampire's 169 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:40,600 fiction and nonfiction fantastic did you can I weird confession okay I've been married just shy of 25 years right I think it was late last year 170 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:52,600 That I realized my wife is a vampire hater and I don't mean casually a vampire hater I mean like hard core hates vampires I didn't even know that was a thing and I was like you should have disclosed this when we got married she said you 171 00:18:52,600 --> 00:19:04,600 should have asked before we got married it's like fair fair well okay when you say vampire hater meaning she fears vampires no she hates them as in I was I made some kind of joke about the 172 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:18,600 lost boys she's like I've never seen that movie I was like how could you not have seen the lost boys she's like I don't like vampires I'm like okay but like drag no no I don't I was like no really you don't like any vampire she likes zero vampires she just hates vampires 173 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:32,600 zero vampires she just hates vampires and I've been sort I've explored this like I've been poking at her trying to get more information out of her because it turns out she's like well they're stupid okay well that's not really a very clear explanation 174 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:46,600 like so what do you mean they're stupid she's like well I mean they have so many ways to kill them yet everybody thinks there's sexy and awesome this dumb why would you want to be a vampire when there's like 500 ways to die I mean yeah you live forever but you're 175 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:56,600 you can only be up at night and everybody wants to kill you and they have a million ways to do it and like wow that is you really thought this through 176 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:11,600 is all right I mean no she's a vampire big it she really hates vampires she's like she's she's hard core about it I really like is now become this super obvious I married a vampire racist and didn't know 177 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:36,600 well well it's like it's almost like she's upset because she thinks it's a poorly designed archetype of it's it her explanation was so fucking nerdy and I but she does not self identify as a nerd or anything like that you know so yeah she I mean does is it like but on the other I love mummies 178 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:53,600 no no no she's not much of a monster fan to be honest you know what else she's not a fan of she doesn't hit the right guy she doesn't care for podcast see there's really interesting I in the background I see someone walking out the door with a suitcase yeah what's going on 179 00:20:53,600 --> 00:21:05,600 vampires are my right you get shocking another one of those vampires work in mysterious ways they really do no it's been she like zombies that's that's her favorite monsters zombies so yeah 180 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:14,600 so she's big on any kind of zombie movie my god trained to pass on I don't know if you seen that but holy shit what a ride 181 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:25,600 don't really not see if you have a seem to do do you so favor it's a Korean movie trained to pass on you will not regret it it is balls to the wall the entire time is such and you 182 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:38,600 would think zombies are tired and you know worn out trope but no people still can be creative in that in that that me Lou so yeah well you know Blake what I like to do is take a worn out trope and put it on a train there you go 183 00:21:38,600 --> 00:22:00,600 should we explain that joke or just let it ride I think not a ride when did trained to pass on come out just just a few years ago like okay good let's see do you do song because my listeners if you 2016 2016 it is super 184 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:12,600 it is so good is so good my my 17 year old son has very refined film tastes he will only watch movies made after the year 2000 when films got good 185 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:30,600 we really started to take off right we had finally figured out the narrative form we we finally figured out you know gripping storytelling so he he he sticks to that it's not even like I don't watch black and white films it's like don't don't 186 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:42,600 do you have any with the 90s or the 80s bullshit that's hilarious he must love that multi-falken poster that's he has no idea what that is he's never focused on that ever he's just I when 187 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:59,600 every in my office he's looking down at his phone so it doesn't matter he doesn't even know what I look like that's so funny as yeah I know the feeling yeah I have I have three kids still living here and one of them is a total hide in her room hardly ever come out you know it's 188 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:14,600 pretty much pretty much and my wife said you know has Maddie done something today from the choreless and like dude the sun still up you know it's like she has an out of bed yet this maybe contributing to my wife's 189 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:34,600 but that's a possibility but let's talk about your podcast a little more you know your last three episodes were about a book by D Scott rogo yeah so have you read much else of rogo's work besides the Miracles book yeah I 190 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:46,600 know the first one I read which I cover in season two is phone calls from the dead nice okay nice and and he what I didn't realize about rogo was that he was kind of a wonder 191 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:58,600 can't I mean he was he got in as like a fan like in his teens he was like writing fan letters to parapsychologists and then right out of 192 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:10,600 the college he was publishing books so even though he tragically died I think at age 40 he was young he was young to me yeah so well yeah to me I look back at 40 and I'm like oh my God 193 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:23,600 yeah 40s when I had to start wearing the reading glasses and I'm like oh 40 sucks but yeah actually mid 50s ain't bad I'm doing I'm having a good time here yeah I kind of feel the same way I'm glad you said that I feel the same way but anyway yeah rogo 194 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:51,600 wrote a bunch of stuff I haven't read all of it but I read that and there might and I have a few others that I haven't really gotten into yet but but yeah I mean he's a big name for sure he is and his death is tragic and mysterious so it's like if I ever did any kind of a true crime podcast episode which I can't even imagine doing a whole show about based on that the mysterious death of 195 00:24:51,600 --> 00:25:20,600 Scott rogo is definitely something I'd want to cover it is weird it's a very strange story yeah it is I mean sad I don't know and I mean horribly sad it it um they said pretty quickly that I'm talking about like the newspaper reports the next day because he lived out here he was just in the valley yeah he was murdered and um and very quickly the the cops and I think even his mom 196 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:38,400 mom sort of said this had nothing to do with his work no not at all no no no yeah yeah getting some weird you know paranormal place right right this was a a an active violence I'm not sure if they said it was random I don't know if there was a 197 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:49,600 opportunity killing like somebody yeah yeah but it it so here so here's the thing about him at that time you know he was gay and it was a time when I I feel like 198 00:25:49,600 --> 00:26:02,600 when a gay person got murdered in the 80s it wasn't given the same serious treatment I think that a regular like a like this into me 199 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:15,600 whatever a not gay murder would be I don't know like there's nothing good about being murdered about what's a straight murder I mean maybe I'm wrong my assumption is he was not out like no no I'm not I'm not I'm not clear on that you know what 200 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:30,600 what I like about Scott rogo is he had first of all first of all I was doing research on the ghosts of the water town which was a big case for me that I really ran to ground and I was very happy with all 201 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:39,600 that work and I researched for decades it haunted me since I was a kid going back to bookshelves and one of the first books I read about ghosts had pictures of the ghosts of the water town 202 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:55,600 these these faces floating in the water off the side of a ship and I've right I've spent so much time researching that I actually uncovered the uncroped photo I it was amazing it was maybe one of the most important cases I worked on not not not 203 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:04,200 it's significance to the world but it's significant to me it was personally important to me and I got one of my most important leads because 204 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:16,200 D. Scott rogo actually cited his sources and had a really good index and a bibliography so I was able to use his material to take me further down the road to getting to the bottom of the case so that's correct 205 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:31,200 even though we probably would completely disagree on whether it was a real ghost or not I really appreciate his scholarship on that topic you know so I so him being murdered sort of haunted me because so so I 206 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:48,200 I grew up in a with a fundamentalist family very very religious very conservative and like you reveal in your story my mom was clinically depressed and I spent a lot of my time trying to fix her and she used me as an emotional 207 00:27:48,200 --> 00:28:03,200 crutch and you know it was there was a lot going on there but the spooky books that they really were important to me and I had to hide you know my interest in the paranormal from my parents 208 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:09,200 because they saw everything is demonology everything was demons you know and so if I was interested in monsters and cryptos of 209 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:21,200 wild you know that sort of thing they thought that was evil slash demonic slash easily explain through the Bible like it spinning time on it was a waste of time because they already 210 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:37,200 understood the answers right right so it led me to live this sort of dual life a secret life where you know a lot of the things I was interested in I had to hide for my parents so I'm not gay despite I 211 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:50,200 think is a Greg proofs Greg proofs says this line he says he says I'm not gay but I make no case for it right right that's me in a nutshell what would it 212 00:28:50,200 --> 00:29:06,200 though though is like I just living this secret life and not wanting your parents to find out what you're into gave me a huge affinity for gay culture like like I was always afraid my parents were going to reject me because I was interested in this stuff and I 213 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:23,200 hit it for years and years and it was like it was just I was living this secret life so my emotional connection to people who've also had to leave secret lives or live secret lives as always been there as always I was like when I was in the Navy I had so many 214 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:32,200 friends who were gay and lesbian but they couldn't say it and we are they ever talked about it but you know they could lose their jobs they could get kicked out of the 215 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:41,200 Navy could be disarmable discharge it was like there was serious consequences to being true to yourself and that's right sucks and so I always when I learned about 216 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:49,200 these car rogos like I felt this weird affinity from him you know for like living a secret life you know and like being interested 217 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:57,200 of stuff so yeah I just felt a strong connection even though we were on the opposite side of the belief spectrum monster tall you've been 218 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:06,800 listening to monster talk the science show about monsters I'm Blake Smith and I'm Karen Stolzner you just heard part one of my two part discussion with Richard 219 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:15,200 Hadam about his new show Richard Hadam's paranormal podcast if you enjoyed hearing his talk then you'll probably enjoy his show check it out in part 220 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:22,200 two we're going to go on a meandering look at more stuff about skeptics and believers and so much more so hopefully I'll see you in a week 221 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:30,200 monster talk theme music is by peach stealing monkeys if you're hearing this then you're definitely getting our new feed and we thank you for staying tuned 222 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:34,280 (dark music) 223 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,020 (dark music) 224 00:30:37,020 --> 00:30:39,760 (dark music) 225 00:30:40,260 --> 00:30:42,840 (dark music) 226 00:30:43,140 --> 00:30:45,640 (dark music) 227 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,080 (dark music) 228 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,000 (dark music) 229 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,500 (dark music) 230 00:30:54,500 --> 00:31:12,080 (dark music) 231 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,100 This has been a Monster House presentation.