And really building the perfect team is like posting the perfect party.
How do I create a party that has a lot of different views, age, grades and experiences?
And that just makes the gas and the conversations a lot more interesting than having the same 10 people,
having the same 10 past experiences.
So that's why I think about when I build a team, I don't want to have everybody with the same skill set, the same experience.
But really, how do I bring different thought leadership and diversity into the teams?
Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast, a show for the new generation of leaders.
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Welcome to the Executive Connect podcast.
I'm so excited to have my friend, Nina Johnson, with us today to talk about how to grow amazing teams.
The majority of her career has been helping one of the most iconic brands, Coca-Cola, brought to a $250 billion company and market cap.
Thank you so much for joining us today, Nina. We'll happy to have you here.
Thanks, Melissa, for inviting me. I'm really excited to be here.
When I think big teams, lots of teams, lots of people, I think you, Nina, I'm so excited for you to tell us a little bit about your background on developing teams and your leadership style to grow teams, right?
Yeah, thanks for asking that.
I've been really fortunate and I've been leading teams the past 14 years, so whether it's a small group, a large group, hybrid and remote, I've been fortunate kind of leading teams throughout my career.
I would say as my time has evolved, my leadership style and how I manage teams has definitely evolved as well as I think about, I probably led my very first team when I was 16, 27.
Looking back, I was just a newbie, really excited, made tons of mistakes to looking where I have been now managing teams about 15 years later.
It is drastically different. I think as you grow professionally, your leadership styles and then how you manage teams also changes.
Yeah, during the pandemic, everybody learned a new way of managing teams, right?
I know we've talked before and you've mentioned leading teams is like a party. What do you mean by that? What does that mean to you?
Yeah, as I thought about, you know, an allergy, I know a lot of people talk about sports and allergies.
I myself did not play a lot of team sports, so as I think about developing teams, I think about, you know, how do I relate that to?
I do plan a lot of parties and really building the perfect team is like posting the perfect party and think about that, the guests that you invite, the people you have on your team and, you know, when you're in your 20s and you're going to house party, it's probably all your friends from high school, college, the same group of people you grew up with, probably reminiscing about what you've done in the past and it's always a look back, right?
And you're always in the same click, but as I've grown both professionally and personally, you know, in my 30s, you know, people often have new relationships, they get married, they meet their kids, parents, your neighbor, friends.
So now when you host a party, I think about, how do I create a party that has a lot of different views, age groups and experiences?
And that just makes the gas and the conversations a lot more interesting than having the same 10 people having the same 10 past experiences.
So that's why I think about when I build a team, I don't want to have everybody with the same skills at the same experience, but really, how do I bring different that leadership and diversity into the teams?
I love that word now, diversity, lots of different, it's key to have lots of diverse perspectives and leading teams and I know I've talked a little bit about this before outside of the podcast, but I know and you nailed it hiring and harnessing diverse perspectives and different age groups and different backgrounds and different experiences.
I think the more that you, like you mentioned, the older that you get, you have different perspectives. So how has that changed for you over the last few years of growing diverse teams and how have you maybe you can speak a little bit to those different stages and what has prompted you to change more as a leader.
Yep, I think about, you know, when I first hired, I would say the first couple of years, I was hiring people, honestly, exactly like me, similar type of personality, same skill set, because I think, you know, if I can do it, then I want to hire people just like me.
But what that does is it doesn't bring any type of diverse experience or thoughts. I remember I was working on an analytics team and I hired everyone with the exact same analytical skills that who can crunch the numbers really go to the sell kind of a replica of little many need us.
But then what that didn't translate is we all had the same thought how we built our presentations, how we delivered the presentations, it didn't create anything new or thought provoking. And as I think through now, you know, later in my career, the highest individual contributors don't always make the best manager to the best teams, right.
And then you're very good at a skill set, and that was hard for me to realize that when you hire when you hire a really strong individual contributor, it doesn't necessarily translate that they would be the best person on the team.
So now as I build teams, I think through when I hire a new candidate, what different experiences and perspectives can that person bring to the team that I do not have.
And I look for that soft skill or experience to come bring that new perspective on the teams.
And what roles can these different players bring like what different.
You know, what do they bring when they have different backgrounds.
Yeah, great question. So I think one is the experiences. So in my last role that I hire, you know, I was leading a marketing commercial team.
And we hired someone with sales experience because all of our go to market programs that we developed, go into a sales organization.
And then we got to do a lot of work to help us. And we got to do a lot of work to get into the market.
So the first thing I do is I work with my clients, the company, the company, the company.
And they're working with me. And I work with them, and I work with them.
And I think that's a great question.
So I think that's the biggest thing that I've been working with is the company.
And I think that's the biggest thing that I've been working with is the company.
well with the team, what new experiences that they bring
onto the team to really create that perfect team they now.
- But think you hit on a really, really important point.
In interviewing, it's not just up the chain.
I think it's a DNA fit for the employer and the employee.
They could run through a perfect interview
with a perfect resume with HR in the hiring manager,
and then they sideline interviewer, downline interview,
and those people have completely different
understanding of their expertise.
I've been part of some of those interviews
and I've heard from people that reported to me
and I was blown away at what they were able to gather
during that interview that could have been very difficult
for the company had we hired them.
And so I think that's a key point is getting the buy-in
from everybody that's gonna be working with that person
that you mentioned.
And then no matter how much we vet an employee
and we go through everything, HR related up the line,
sideline, downline, sometimes we hire the wrong people
for roles.
I forget the analogy, but it takes one bad egg
to ruin an entire team.
How do you work with, let's say one bad egg
on a really great productive team?
- Yeah, and unfortunately, that does happen
even to the best of us.
It doesn't matter what type of interview process.
I think what some important to understand is,
is this a bad egg, like it's a bad fit for the company,
so it's a bad employee or is it just a bad egg
with a new department?
And I think, I've experienced both
and I learned that I went to this one seminar
and they talked about your boss as a leader of people leader
is arranging people on the bus.
You may have a bad egg that doesn't have the right skill set
for your team, but man, they would be great
in another function.
It's just a skill set, sideline.
So can we move them to the right seat
on the bus within the company?
That's the one I always wanna make sure,
if it's a good person, just not the right fit,
let me find them where you will thrive with your strengths.
Then it goes into the extreme work,
this is a toxic person for the company.
And how do we performance manage them
and exit them out of the organization?
And what's always surprising is every time that has happened,
it doesn't matter the amount of people
that have come and told me,
oh, I'm so glad this person exited.
If it's three, four, five, when that person leaves,
that number doubles the amount of other people
that have come to me and said, wow,
I was afraid to say something or you know what,
I just kinda let it slide.
And then that's when you really understand
how much the toxic employee has spread
throughout the organization versus just what you may hear
during the process.
But I think you as a leader need to take that effort
because when you have a bad egg within the team,
it spreads and it brings more round down,
team productivity, efficiency,
and then everyone's looking at you as a leader
of why are you not doing something
to correct this team dynamic?
So I think it's important for you to take that challenge.
And I would say, you know, I remember one time,
and this was the first time I had to actually let someone go
was actually someone who was also, you know,
a close friend as well.
And I think it's very hard when you have to separate
the personal to professional relationship,
especially when it's just not the right fit for the person,
but you have to think about the total team
and the department and how it's impacting, you know,
one bad employee for across the entire team.
- So in those case, I love it.
You kept the employee because as we know, hiring and firing
is at a very expensive process, getting people ramped up
to the job when it's a better, like you mentioned,
it's like putting people in a seat on the bus.
It's sometimes it's better to move them to a different team
or a different manager and help them shine in other areas.
Now, what happens if they move to another team?
Let's say they move to another team
and now you have to fill in that role again.
You go through the same process again
where you will let people re-interview or do you find
that at times you're hesitant if you've had
a couple of bad eggs, like walk me through a little bit,
like how you fit people into an existing team dynamic
that's been working together for a while.
- Yes, when the team is running really efficiently
and someone leaves whether, you know,
they're going to new promotional opportunity
or different team, it's always a little scary
because everyone reflects how great everything is
at that current state and then you try to bring someone new in.
I think through one, when there's an opening on the team,
the first thing I think about is,
is there anyone on our team first that can
needs that pros functional experience, right?
Like maybe somebody was managing one channel trade
and they wanna learn a different piece
or they're managing one market.
So I always like to give our existing team members
an opportunity to grow and potentially change positions
within the current team.
Once we can go through that process,
then we definitely open it up and see
who is interested in the role.
And as I mentioned, I think about,
who can we bring in that we're lacking from our current team?
So who are we placed a new person with an old person?
I don't necessarily go for the exact same skills
that whether it's the hard skills or the soft skills,
but I think about now with this person gone,
like what gap do we have that we wanna fill with this open seat
and that's what I look for?
And I think it's important as we're looking through teams,
I also asked my current team members,
hey, so you know of anyone who would be good?
It's due to ask your existing team,
they know how the team dynamic works,
how we work together and there they're gonna be
the best honestly recruiter for your team.
So they'll go out there and be like,
yes, I know the perfect person,
it's what they need and they would really well with the team culture.
So my team are often my best recruiters
when I'm looking to fill a spot on the team.
- I think that's great.
The other thing that comes to mind is managing teams now
is difficult, right?
You have a lot of remote people, you have new people,
you have different ages.
How do you build a team culture
when you may have some people in a different country?
You may have some people that work out of their home in office.
Like let's say you have a bunch of different people
in different states and countries and summer remote.
How do you make it feel like a team
and what kind of things can a leader do
to make people feel like they're bought into that team
and that vision and that strategy when they're remote?
- Yeah, I mean, that's exactly the situation you're going
now as we switch into hybrid post-COVID.
I think one thing I always think about is consistency, right?
I think you find the right time that works across,
you know, iPad teams on the East Coast, you know,
Central West, I think having consistent meetings
with your team where everyone can attend is one piece, right?
They want to make sure that they'll feel part of a team
no matter what time zone of their home in the office.
To you, while I know most of our teams can be remote
or hybrid, when we do find a thing in the office,
we try to be consistent on,
do we want to make two-s there office days?
So we do have that connection in person
when we choose to be in the office.
Let's go and meet so we can all take advantage
of having an office day.
And I think the last thing as I think about
making sure that the team works is, you know,
every time we have a team meeting,
we always also talk about, we just kind of do
round the horn making sure everyone has an opportunity
to speak and I'm one of those where if we happen
to see each other in a while just because of
a meeting or scheduling, so be like,
let's have fun camera and say hi
and I always start the meetings with
how is everybody doing?
What are you guys up to versus going straight
into the business?
'Cause at the end of the day, the team,
you spend so much time with these people that work for you
that are on the team.
That's good to understand what's going on
and life outside of your working hours.
So I think about how you make the connection,
being consistent and showing up when, you know,
we want the team to and then when the teams do come together,
is let's make the best of our time together as a team.
Another fantastic point.
I think you touched on something that's really important.
Taking a genuine, active interest in other people
outside of their job and their job duties,
like how are things going on with their families
and better understanding people as a leader
helps you make better decisions as a leader.
I think the more we understand,
I jokingly have jokingly say until we're all replaced
by robots, you know,
and being a leader is not just, here's our to-do list,
here's our task, you know, you're accountable for this.
I'm accountable for that.
You're not doing this and I'm not doing that.
There's a human factor involved
and sometimes people have things going on in their life
and it's like you mentioned, it's up to us to not just focus
on, you know, what everybody's accountable for,
but generally understand that they have a sick kid
or a sick parent and they need to take some time.
And I think the more as leaders that were taking a genuine
interest in our people and helping them grow
not only for the company, but for themselves,
it's better for everyone.
And I think that's the one thing in this fast pace
world that we all live in, everything's faster, quicker,
you know, more efficient that sometimes, you know,
I know I have to myself, you know,
make sure I'm not doing that because it's always like,
we gotta get to where we gotta get
but I think what I've seen is the leaders
that are the best leaders understand their people,
their strengths and weaknesses and like you,
you mentioned, they hire in where they're lacking, right?
So, you know, maybe you're not attention to detail person
so you need to hire a detail person
and maybe your big picture person and the attention
to detail people need to bring you, you know,
back down to earth, right?
Well, you're executing your vision
so I love that you mentioned, you know,
taking time to talk to the people, right?
And understand outside of their job.
And I know I hear sometimes companies are doing, you know,
sales summits and, you know, like you mentioned,
getting into the office and doing, you know,
I've hosted once, the, get out of jail,
safe rooms or whatever once.
And I thought it was really cool
because you saw different dynamics of people's personalities
and the quieter people were fantastic in the, in the escape rooms
and I think you hit on a really good court
as being more genuine and empathetic to people's lives.
Yeah, you made a great point around the empathy Melissa.
It's, I could probably tell you all of my employees
a significant other person's name and their kids
because if you understand employees' motivation
and it differs, right?
For, I know one of my employees was really into
making sure they work like balance.
It's, you know, she has told me numerous times,
I have a life outside of work and I respect that.
Well, you know, you have others that really want to make sure
that they're, they're home with their kids at a certain time
and I'm the same way.
I remember when I first started my last role,
my very first intro call with my team.
I remember I said, hey, I, I do drop offs in the mornings.
I do not have meetings before a 30.
I've done that in the past in my 30s.
It, it doesn't write, right?
The kids in the car and I was very clear.
I'm happy to jump on with you guys later or not,
but this is when I start and this is when I end,
you know, feel free to text me in between.
And it was really interesting because I had one other mom
reach out to me after that call was like, wow,
nobody has ever said that like in any of our intro meetings
that they were like, hey, I'm a mom and I do drop offs.
But it was for me, it was really clear to establish my priorities
and I would want my team to feel the same
and whatever is important to them, whether it's,
I need to leave by this because I have a commit, right?
And I think that's important to understand
and when you understand everyone's motivation,
they just want to make the time and work
into the workplace that much stronger.
- Yeah, I agree, well said.
I'm going to pivot a little bit here.
So we talked a lot about like how to build teams,
what to do, you know, how to get the buy in,
being general now, let's switch the, the scenario.
Let's say you have built a team and somebody in the team
has broken trust with everyone on the team
or they've done something they shouldn't have
or there's questionable behavior that they know better
than maybe like a trade secret to COVID-19.
That would be bad, right?
Maybe they shared that trade secret,
but how do you handle when trust is broken,
either peer to peer or manager to employee,
like how do you handle that?
- I think the first thing you need to do
is actually one address the situation.
I know that sounds silly to say,
but I've seen in some instances where someone may just
want to ignore what's happening.
And I think that's not the case
because then everybody else observes
that there was trust broken, nothing was done by the leader.
So I always like to address it.
I'm a pretty straightforward and honest leader,
so I'd like to talk to you one,
the employee first to understand what happened
because sometimes often it could be hearsay,
you might have heard, I heard this from someone else.
So I think for me, I always like to go
to the source employee to figure out what happened
in really a private setting.
I am not one to call it anybody
on any type of behavior in a public setting.
I think there's always an appropriate time
where you can pull somebody in a private setting
to guess any type of performance behavior.
So I'd like to understand what happened
and then if a trust really was broken by the employee,
I think that employee needs to own the accountability
for that action and really make sure
that they explain that situation
to whoever's trust that they've broken.
I think if you can identify and I don't want to say rectify
me, but you know that the person's genuine
and has honestly made a mistake and can address it,
that's half the problem, that's half the battle,
how the T, how that person continues
and how the other team members react.
I can't control all other team members react,
but at least I can maybe put ourselves in the situation
and make the right efforts to rebuild that trust.
But it's definitely, you know, two ways to do about it.
I don't think it's only up to the person.
I think the leader has to help facilitate that
to build that trust back to the team.
And then you have to trust the person and the team
on how they want to move forward.
- Woo, that was good.
I think the one thing I heard is no silos,
hitting the problem head on, no running around,
no sweeping it under the rug,
you hit the employee directly, you get there side,
you get other side and you work head on with it.
I love that, I love that.
It says a lot about you as a leader that you can hit things
and you give people the benefit of it out, right?
I think they say there's two sides to every story
and it's somewhere in the middle, right?
On each side of the story.
But I think, I love that you said that you work through it
and you hit it head on because a lot of times I've heard,
people just swoop it under the rug and they forget it happened
and everybody sides not heard, maybe one side heard
or it's over dramatized in one area
and not hit head on in the other area.
So I think anybody that can work for you, Nina,
is lucky to have you as a boss
because you can hit things head on.
And I wanna just enclosing, I want to,
from your perspective is there,
maybe top three top things that anybody
who's managing people can do today to lead better teams
or maybe the top three thoughts that you can share
with our listeners that they can put into practice today.
That is gonna be, what may think about,
sorry, the top three.
I think one rule I always follow is treat others
how they wanna be treated.
And I learned this that they call this the platinum rule.
I think in the past it was always treat others
how you wanna be treated and it's that, that treat others
how they wanna be treated, whether they're an extra introvert.
So think about customizing a leadership approach
to the individual.
Don't treat everybody the exact same way.
Second, leading teams takes time.
I don't think you should expect anyone yourself
or your teams to go into that perfect team dynamic.
And day one, it takes work of the individual,
the team member, as well as yourself as a leader.
When a team is not operating efficiently,
you're definitely part of the blame myself.
You cannot only put it on the team.
The last thing that I'll say is,
trust, trust yourself, I think in the process.
I remember my very first team that I managed,
I think anyone who knows this or his work for me
in the past, I was not a great leader in my first two teams
and I apologize for that.
I was probably very young, hiring people just like me.
I was very bad at the experience,
but I think you have to trust yourself
and grow in the process.
Nobody is perfect the first time's around
and you only get better as time goes on.
I strongly believe if you put in the effort as a leader
and take time to know your team, know yourself
and know how you operate,
you should be able to improve yourself
just like with any other thing that you work hard on practice,
you've got to trust in yourself in the process.
- Well, that was good.
Well said, it's one of my mentors used to tell me,
Melissa, if you want to be a good leader, leaders or readers,
make sure you're reading and bettering yourself
because the better you are,
the better you can be for your team.
And so that's always resonated with me
is like leaders or readers.
And so I'm going to take your other top three myself,
Nina, thank you so much for being here today
on the Executive Connect podcast.
Tell us how we can connect with you
and keep in touch with you.
Is it online?
Is it social media?
What's the best way?
- Yeah, thank you one for having me.
That's was an awesome experience
talking about leading teams.
For everyone, I am on LinkedIn, Nina Johnson.
Can find me, let's connect.
I'm always happy to make new networks
and opportunities to engage.
Thank you so much for being here today
and that's the Executive Connect podcast.
You've been listening to the Executive Connect podcast.
If you have questions or ideas
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